Shownotes
What if your next meal could change a life—starting with your own?
Rip sits down with Chef Kevin McGee, a 25-year veteran of plant-based living and the visionary behind the Urban Oak Initiative. From his Missouri roots and a former career in investment banking, to leading a nonprofit centered on food justice, Kevin shares a moving personal and professional journey grounded in compassion, health, and cultural heritage.
Listeners will hear how Kevin’s childhood influences—especially his mother and grandmother—shaped his culinary philosophy.
And you’ll hear a very personal story—how his daughter’s battle with cancer became a turning point in his life, igniting a new level of purpose that fuels everything he does today.
This episode is a masterclass in how food can nourish not just our bodies, but our spirits and communities as well. So grab a seat at the table—Chef Kevin is serving up something truly special.
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Transcripts
I'm Rheb Esselstyn and you're listening to the Plan Strong podcast.
Speaker A:What if your next meal could change a life?
Speaker A:Starting with your own?
Speaker A:Today you're going to meet chef Kevin McGee, who traded investment banking for plant based cooking to improve the health of his family and his community.
Speaker A:His story is coming up right after these words from Plantstrong.
Speaker A:One of my favorite things about the Plantstrong podcast is getting to highlight and celebrate the people who are living proof that your plate has the power to transform your health, your community and the planet.
Speaker A:My guest today is someone who is doing just that and then some.
Speaker A:Chef Kevin McGee.
Speaker A:He's not just a master of plant based flavor.
Speaker A:He's a food justice warrior, a teacher, a visionary, and the beating heart behind the Urban Oak initiative.
Speaker A:For over 25 years, Kevin has been walking the plant strong path.
Speaker A:But his journey to the kitchen wasn't a straight line.
Speaker A:He started out in the high stakes world of investment banking, but it was his deep rooted family values like compassion, connection and culture that ultimately pulled him towards his true calling.
Speaker A:Empowering others through food.
Speaker A:In this conversation, we talk about everything from Kevin's Missouri upbringing and his grandmother's soulful influence to the powerful programs that he's built like Kids Can Cook and Plants Over Pills that are making plant based living accessible, joyful, and deeply relevant to the underserved communities.
Speaker A:And you're going to hear a very personal story, how Kevin's daughter's battle with cancer became a turning point in his life, igniting a new level of purpose that fuels everything that he does today.
Speaker A:This episode is a masterclass in how food can nourish not just our bodies, but our spirits and communities as well.
Speaker A:So grab a seat at the table.
Speaker A:Chef Kevin is serving up something truly Special.
Speaker A:Chef Kevin McGee, welcome to the Plantstrong podcast.
Speaker A:It's a pleasure to have you.
Speaker B:Hey, it is awesome to be here, Riv.
Speaker B:Good to meet you.
Speaker A:Nice to meet you.
Speaker A:So if I'm not mistaken, you, my man, have been plant based for around 25 years, is that right?
Speaker B:Yes, yes, we have.
Speaker B:You know, we've had some fallen off the wagon here, there, but, you know, we got back on and so now we're 100% plant based and advocating for plant based eating as well.
Speaker B:100% of the time.
Speaker A:I know you are, and I can't wait to dive in and hear all about the advocacy work that you guys are doing.
Speaker A:Now, when you say we, who's we?
Speaker A:Is this.
Speaker A:Is that your family?
Speaker A:Is that what?
Speaker A:Is that?
Speaker B:So we would be, in this instance, we would be Urban Oak Initiative that does the advocate advocacy.
Speaker B:That's a nonprofit that my grandmother started many, many years ago.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, and she and your mother and you amazing people.
Speaker A:And we're going to dive into that before, before we do, though.
Speaker A:I'd love to.
Speaker A:No, just.
Speaker A:So where, where am I talking to you right now?
Speaker A:What city are you in?
Speaker B:So right now I'm actually in Athens, Georgia.
Speaker B:I live in Atlanta, Georgia, but at this moment I'm in Athens, Georgia at a, what they call a flavor of the South.
Speaker B:So it's like a value added food producers conference.
Speaker B:So I'm also in work mode as soon as I jump off the call here.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:What are you going to be doing there?
Speaker B:So we have a program that we run with the nonprofit where we work with aspiring plant based food entrepreneurs.
Speaker B:These are individuals who make things like jams and jellies and sauces.
Speaker B:And so we are, we're helping them bring their products to market.
Speaker B:So this particular event is like a marketing event for several product companies across Georgia that may or may not be plant based.
Speaker B:But we're trying to bring them here to get some additional information so that we could kind of have their plant based products on the shelves now alongside everyone else's.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So I'd love to dive into some of your background.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You grew up in Missouri.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Middle of Missouri.
Speaker B:Middle.
Speaker B:Middle of somewhere.
Speaker B:So big agriculture town.
Speaker B:So what they would call the heartland of Missouri.
Speaker B:So you can imagine just thousands of acres of just flat fields and they grow a lot of the agribusiness crops, soybeans, flax, rice, you know, a lot of things, you know, like we're talking barges, you know, taking out the grains and things like that.
Speaker B:So very, very heavy agribusiness country.
Speaker B:So I grew up in a very agricultural background.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:And was your, what did your, your, your, your parents do for, you know, to, to make, to make money?
Speaker A:Were you guys average poor, rich?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You guys, they're definitely rich in spirit.
Speaker B:You know, rich, rich in spirit.
Speaker B:Rich, rich in values.
Speaker B:But definitely, you know, many, most people in that part of the country, you know, a lot of your rural areas, you know, do struggle from, you know, you know, lack of resources, poverty, things like that.
Speaker B:My parents, my mother went to law school and was a state legislator for many years.
Speaker B:My father worked for the school system down there.
Speaker B:Now he's retired and does his own thing.
Speaker B:So, you know, they were able to make, you know, some great decisions and I ultimately, you know, relocated from there.
Speaker B:We left Missouri, small town in Missouri, moved to Kansas City, Missouri, and that's where I spent most of my, my, my, my young adult years.
Speaker A:Right, right.
Speaker A:And so did you, did you go to college?
Speaker B:Oh, definitely, yeah.
Speaker B:So I came to Atlanta.
Speaker B:I found my way to Atlanta by way of Morehouse College.
Speaker B:So I went to Morehouse.
Speaker B:I majored in banking and finance.
Speaker B:I was going to be a Wall street raider at that time.
Speaker B:I think that was the early 90s.
Speaker B:So that was the Greed is good, Wall street movies, you know, those types of things.
Speaker B:So I wanted to be a financier, so I thought, spent a little time in the investment banking area on Wall street and quickly found out that some of my core values of honesty, love, connection, compassion, didn't necessarily in line too much with investment banking at that time.
Speaker B:So quickly made a pivot myself and ended up in the hospitality industry and started down this path and becoming a hospitality professional, ultimately became a certified executive chef, owned a number of restaurants and catering facilities, and now transitioned over to still maintaining that chef role.
Speaker B:But now we educate people in the community and provide plant based foods as a way to help them address things like, you know, health equity, food disparities and health.
Speaker B:Health issues as well.
Speaker A:Well, you just said a lot there in a very, in, in a very, very short period of time.
Speaker A:So I, I want to backtrack for a second.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Let's look back.
Speaker A:You and.
Speaker A:You and Gordon Gekko didn't quite see eye to eye.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker A:Certain things.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:But so how long were you in the finance banking world before you were like, you know what?
Speaker A:This just doesn't.
Speaker A:I mean, did you know, like, did you know on day one?
Speaker A:But it took you five years or it's probably.
Speaker B:I knew on day one, it probably took me six months.
Speaker B:You know, I'm, I'm not one to stay in a place where I don't really, really, really find myself resonating or aligning with.
Speaker B:So I made a quick move out of there.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Good for you.
Speaker B:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker A:And so you went.
Speaker A:So if you have.
Speaker A:You always had a love for like food and cooking.
Speaker A:Is that what I mean?
Speaker A:At some point, like six months in, you're like, okay, this isn't that.
Speaker A:And then is that when you immediately made the pivot and you're like, okay, my passion is food and I'm going to do something in this arena.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I think I immediately made the pivot.
Speaker B:I started doing some work in the nonprofit sector, working with farmers, agriculture farmers, helping them do things like get business Loans, business, finance.
Speaker B:So I found a nice hybrid of the two where I was using.
Speaker B:I was using what I had learned, but I was using it to kind of help, you know, the food system.
Speaker B:At that time, what would later be known as the food system, I thought I was just sort of helping farmers, you know, get loans to do crops and things like that.
Speaker B:But I believe that along with some of the other exposure that I had to different types of cuisines in the early years of my career, you know, largely what made me be focused more on, you know, cooking and the culinary aspect.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:You said there that.
Speaker A:So some of, some of the values didn't align with yours, namely, like love, compassion, honesty.
Speaker A:Those are, I think, like, foundational core traits that more people really should embrace.
Speaker B:Definitely.
Speaker A:Where did you learn those, those qualities?
Speaker B:Yeah, so I think the same thing.
Speaker B:So, you know, my grandmother played a big, big role in my development growing up.
Speaker B:She raised me a lot, along with my mother and my father, from a really small country town, only 2,000 people, where everybody knows you, you know, so there's always a sense of accountability no matter where you go.
Speaker B:The closest major town was Memphis, which was like an hour and a half.
Speaker B:So, you know, in that type of environment, you do kind of form those, those core values around just, you know, compassion, honesty.
Speaker B:Because you can't go too far if you're not honest.
Speaker B:Town is pretty small, so you can't, you know, you can't.
Speaker B:You get.
Speaker B:You go to the next town over, but it's like five miles.
Speaker B:So, you know, the word travels fast in small town.
Speaker B:So you have to really be accountable for yourself and reputation still mean a lot, you know, in that part of the country as well.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So how close were you to your grandmother?
Speaker B:Oh, exceptionally close.
Speaker B: started the nonprofit back in: Speaker B:And so, you know, a very major influence in my life.
Speaker B:And I think, you know, looking back on it, one of the major influences was around food.
Speaker B:You know, while she was not plant based, that was a foreign term to her.
Speaker B:You know, 40, 50 years ago.
Speaker B:You know, our table is always fresh greens out the garden, beans, peas, you know, everything had some freshly sliced tomatoes, cucumbers, things like that.
Speaker B:You know, maybe a small piece of meat is seasoning or something like that.
Speaker B:But never, ever, you know, meat heavy.
Speaker B:I remember distinctly, even when we would go to the hamburger stand, you know, 50 something years ago, she would say, hey, make sure you get extra lettuce and tomato on there.
Speaker B:That was that Was kind of her version, you know, making sure you get.
Speaker B:It was all, you know, emphasis was always on, you know, adding more vegetables to the plate.
Speaker B:So I thank her for that.
Speaker B:And I think I.
Speaker B:That's kind of what started me in this, in this past, so many years ago.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, in her name.
Speaker A:Because I love her name.
Speaker A:Robbie.
Speaker A:Yes, yes, Robbie.
Speaker A:Robbie Towns.
Speaker A:And it sounds like she started that nonprofit originally to kind of help provide emergency assistance to families that were, you know, going through some really, really hard times.
Speaker A:I mean, what, what kind of a person starts a nonprofit for people that are, you know, very, very special people?
Speaker B:Definitely.
Speaker A:And so I think that speaks volumes about, you know, who she was, a human being.
Speaker B:Thank you for that.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And then obviously, it sounds like your mom, her daughter, was able to carry that torch.
Speaker A:And yes, as you said, was a legislature in the legislature and pretty amazing in her own right, if I'm not mistaken here.
Speaker A:Well, or maybe you can tell me, like, she, she carried that torch with the nonprofit.
Speaker A:And what were some of the initiatives that she started in.
Speaker A:In the town you grew up in?
Speaker B:Yeah, so they were always focused around youth and their families.
Speaker B:So, you know, one of the most popular ones would be giving out the common, you know, food baskets, you know, throughout the year.
Speaker B:You know, so it's a lot of her work was always focused on food.
Speaker B:Again, you know, she wasn't, you know, plant based, but was always focused on the importance of food.
Speaker B:You know, and I think that's something that we're missing today.
Speaker B:You know, she really saw food as something important.
Speaker B:She was really focused on health.
Speaker B:She quickly said, hey, you know, you, you're looking a little, you know, you look like you might be putting on a couple pounds, you know, and it, and it wasn't with the body shaming type of thing that we hear about today.
Speaker B:It was just her way of saying, hey, I'm observing that, you know, maybe you're not eating, you know, eating, eating well.
Speaker B:And maybe you're eating too much, you know, too much processed stuff.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Too much cookies, candies or cake.
Speaker B:But she's always been very focused on, you know, food and health.
Speaker A:All right, so you.
Speaker A:25 plus years ago, you kind of went down the plant based path.
Speaker A:Was there a trigger for you that kind of got you thinking, you know, maybe I don't need all this, this meat and dairy.
Speaker B:You know, it's interesting.
Speaker B:I just started down the culinary path at the same time.
Speaker B:And so I was working at a lot of different restaurants.
Speaker B:I was working at soul food spots and Pizza spots.
Speaker B:Just trying to get experience in the culinary profession because I didn't have any with, you know, with an investment banking or finance backgr.
Speaker B:And my roommate at the time was sort of flirting around with the idea of becoming plant based itself and he brought home some different meat substitutes and some spaghetti and some different things.
Speaker B:Being a chef, aspiring chef at Foodie, I just loved any type of food, you know, vegetables, non vegetables.
Speaker B:And I, and I tasted it and I was like, texture was kind of, kind of different, you know, intriguing.
Speaker B:I was like, oh, this is kind of interesting.
Speaker B:It tasted pretty good.
Speaker B:And so literally that was the thing that started me on this path.
Speaker B:And probably within, I'd say maybe two or three months of, of sampling that food, I went from eating, you know, pretty much, you know, everything in terms of meat.
Speaker B:I just, I just became vegan and I was, you know, vegan the next like five, six years.
Speaker B:Just, just like that.
Speaker B:I've been, I've been kind of extreme, extreme dude, you know, so love it or take it type of thing.
Speaker B:So, you know, and then I think after the first year I really began to notice the health benefits.
Speaker B:You know, I used to suffer a lot from things like strep throats, chronic colds, you know, other issues.
Speaker B:And so when I saw that, you know, those weren't happening, then more importantly, other people were saying, hey, you know, I noticed, you know, you're not, you know, get sick like you used to and this isn't happening.
Speaker B:I was like, yeah, you know, works for me.
Speaker B:You know, so after that I was, that was pretty much sold.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Well, and, and the fact that, you know, your values are rooted, it sounds like in, you know, love, compassion, definitely honesty.
Speaker A:I can't think of a better lifestyle to basically align that with than being, you know, vegan slash, you know, plant.
Speaker B:Plant based, definitely.
Speaker A:Perfect.
Speaker B:I'd agree, I'd agree.
Speaker B:Totally RIP.
Speaker B:Totally.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I love the fact that, that you're extreme.
Speaker A:I mean, I love, I love extreme people, right?
Speaker A:People that like to sink their teeth into things and you know, they don't, they don't take the, you know, the average path that I love extremes.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Got to take the extreme, you know, got to take.
Speaker A:So you're.
Speaker A:So your chef's philosophy.
Speaker A:I went to your, you know, your website and it basically says eat period, live period, love period.
Speaker A:Can you just tell me a little bit about each one of those?
Speaker B:You know, I think, you know, I think eating is always first, right.
Speaker B:You know, even, you know, when we, when we first come out the womb.
Speaker B:You know, we're crying primarily one, because we may have got smacked on the back, but we're hungry.
Speaker B:You know what I'm saying?
Speaker B:Like, that's kind of the first thing, you know, we want to eat as soon as we get out.
Speaker B:So I think, you know, eating is one of the most important things that we can do.
Speaker B:You know, eating, it creates our cells.
Speaker B:You know, the cells create the organs and the tissue.
Speaker B:So, you know, eating is always first.
Speaker B:And I think, you know, how you eat determines largely how you live.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:You know, and your quality of life, you know, your ability to live and then.
Speaker B:And then that ability to live and how much you live ultimately, I think, correlates with how much you end up loving other people.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You know, so a lot of people.
Speaker B:Not a lot, with some people who are maybe suffering from illnesses.
Speaker B:I know some people in my family and other people that I know that tend to suffer from illnesses, sometimes they're not the most loving people, you know.
Speaker B:You know, sometimes, you know, it's probably.
Speaker A:Hard when you're in pain.
Speaker B:Yeah, when you're.
Speaker B:Exactly, exactly.
Speaker B:You know, when you're in pain, you know, it's hard to really kind of be expressive.
Speaker B:How you feeling, or smiling or happy, you know, if you're in great amount of pain.
Speaker B:I had a friend of mine, I was on a board.
Speaker B:I was chair of a board.
Speaker B:And every time I got on the call, he was just always on my own behind, like, always an issue.
Speaker B:You're doing this wrong, you're doing that wrong.
Speaker B:And I was like, what is wrong with this guy?
Speaker B:And maybe a year or so later, he kind of confided in me that during that time he was on a lot of medication and he wasn't even really in control, you know, of kind of how he was presenting himself.
Speaker B:So, you know, I think, you know, we have to really look at what we need and understand that it influences ultimately, you know, how we live and how we love.
Speaker A:Well, you know.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:And I also noticed on your Instagram channel you had a post, I don't know when, sometime in the last year or so.
Speaker A:But it was a woman, and she was talking about eating, basically animals and eating death and just the vibrations, death, they kind of, you know, kind of go through the body and do you want to have that death and pain and suffering and those vibrations going through you?
Speaker A:I thought it was.
Speaker A:I'd never heard it expressed that way before, and I.
Speaker A:And it.
Speaker A:I thought it was really powerful.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think, you know, it's.
Speaker B:It's it's interesting.
Speaker B:I'm also, you know, I do do some yoga, so I'm a little yogi as well.
Speaker B:You know, kind of with the whole, goes with the whole plant based, plant based vibe, you know, you got to take.
Speaker B:Like I said, you know, it's all or nothing rip, you know, so I'm either going to go all the way over here, tree hugger, you know, I'm going to be over here.
Speaker B:But I think, you know, part of that is, you know, you know, science is science, right?
Speaker B:Everything is vibrating, right?
Speaker B:That, that is a law that, I mean, you know, you can't really deny that.
Speaker B:So that, that means that everything is vibrating, you know, until it's dead, you know.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:So I think, you know, eating more living things and things that are really going to promote health and life are better.
Speaker B:You know, I don't really, I'm not, I don't call, I'm not a judgmental, plant based person or vegan person.
Speaker B:You know, I let everyone find their own path.
Speaker B:But you know, I do think if you kind of look at it, you know, you, you definitely, you feel better when you eat things that are better for you, that are living things and promotes life in your body.
Speaker B:And you know, you, you look better, sound better.
Speaker B:I mean, everything, everything's just better when you eat living foods, you know, So I can't really explain it no more.
Speaker A:No, no, no.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker A:Amen.
Speaker A: In: Speaker A:And you say that through this experience you discovered who you really were.
Speaker A:Can you.
Speaker A:I'd love to hear more about that.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, somebody.
Speaker B:So, you know, very, you know, interesting journey.
Speaker B:You know, I won't call it unfortunate because I think everything that happens to us, you know, has purpose, has meaning.
Speaker B:And I think when something like that happens to a family in particular, that everyone involved in that has something that they can get out of that.
Speaker B:There's a learning lesson in that for everyone.
Speaker B:And for me, you know, that learning lesson was really beginning to focus a lot more on the advocacy piece that we had talked about.
Speaker B:You know, prior to that, when I was a chef in my early years, I wasn't a vegan chef, I was just a chef.
Speaker B:You know, that was a job I had.
Speaker B:I cooked, you know, meat and other things, you know, for people.
Speaker B:That was my job, you know, so, but, but, but after that event, that kind of really made me a little bit more focused on the health of other people and the health of others.
Speaker B:And so then I really switched My changed my direction and started to do more around advocacy around plant based eating and healthier eating.
Speaker B:And that was around the time also that I began to flirt with the idea of kind of taking on my grandmother's nonprofit at that time.
Speaker B:My mother's not nonprofit or taking it to the next level.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, definitely, definitely, you know, interesting experience.
Speaker B:I like to always give that to my daughter because that's, that's really a big part of her story, you know, and so, so I think that, you know, for me though, it was really just a learning lesson about, you know, how I can be more focused on doing things to kind of add more stuff to the conversation around health and wellness and eating well.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so I assume, how is your daughter doing?
Speaker B:Oh, she, she's, she's graduating this in a couple of weeks.
Speaker B:She's 22.
Speaker B:She's a special education teacher, which is, well, I call exceptional education teacher, which is amazing.
Speaker B:She's going to have her Masters at 22 in Special Education.
Speaker B:And that really has come from her journey.
Speaker B:As a result of her journey and being around so many other children who had some issues, different challenges and things like bullying and being sort of marginalized, it really put a fire in her and her spirit to go out there and help other young people who are having challenges around autism or special education or special needs.
Speaker B:And so she truly excels at that.
Speaker B:She truly excels at that.
Speaker A:So, and so is she cancer free at this point?
Speaker B:Definitely.
Speaker B:Definitely.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yes, she is.
Speaker B:Indeed.
Speaker B:Indeed.
Speaker A:And she is, she also plant based?
Speaker B:She's somewhat, you know, somewhat, you know, she, she, she's not 100 there, but that's how they grew up and they do have a very good knowledge of health.
Speaker B:You know, she juices a lot, a lot of juicing.
Speaker B:So, you know, like I said, you know, you let people take their path and, and you know, you just do what you can.
Speaker B:And she knows, she knows the, she knows the plant based way in the vegan way.
Speaker B:So, you know, maybe one day she'll, she'll return to that path, but she definitely has the knowledge to do so.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, I, I'll bet you dollars to donuts that she comes back to that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Dollars to big kale.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:So you were, you were a chef.
Speaker A:You, you know, you cooked with everything imaginable and now you're pretty much, when you cook, it's exclusively plants.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:What did you find is, is the biggest difference between cooking meat and, you know, using animal products versus taking them out as a chef?
Speaker A:Is it more challenging, less Challenging.
Speaker B:You know, I think it is more challenging.
Speaker B:It's a little more time and time intensive to get, to get the, to get the textures and the vegan items to be more palatable to people who don't eat meat.
Speaker B:Yeah, you know, I think one of my goals is you obviously want to, you know, create things for people who are plant based.
Speaker B:But I think, you know, my goal, and I maybe say even, you know, part of your goal too is to convert people, you know, to kind of get people to come over to this side.
Speaker B:And so in order for them to do that, the food does have to taste good.
Speaker B:Has to taste good.
Speaker B:It has to have the same texture, you know, the flavor profiles and things like that.
Speaker B:And so in order to get it to that, it's a little bit more work.
Speaker B:I'll give you kind of a specific example.
Speaker B:So, you know, dealing with, you know, vegan proteins, whether it's tofu or jackfruit or, you know, whole foods, you know, zucchini, squash.
Speaker B:Typically in cooking with meat based proteins, we're trying to put more moisture in.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So you're trying to do stuff to keep the chicken moisture, trying to keep the beef moist.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because it'll dry out.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:With plant based food, it's the reverse in terms of texture.
Speaker B:You're trying to pull moisture out of the tofu so that it, so that it's a little hard to chew.
Speaker B:You're trying to pull the moisture out of the jackfruit so that it chews a little bit, a little bit, a little bit tougher, has, you know, that kind of bite that people want.
Speaker B:So I think that's probably the biggest change is just working with the textures and the flavor profile.
Speaker B:But once you get the texture down, you know, as you, as, you know, you know, flavors, flavor, whether it's on tofu or a piece of chicken or you know, piece of tempeh or, you know what, or even kale, you know, flavors, flavor.
Speaker B:We have to get that texture right.
Speaker A:It's really interesting.
Speaker A:So the way you describe that, I've never heard that described that way before.
Speaker A:With, you know, with the meat and the animal products, you're always basically trying to make sure it doesn't get too dry, right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:With the animal, with the, with the plant based products, you're basically trying to many times dry it out.
Speaker A:And to me, the best example that I can think of is like mushrooms.
Speaker A:Like, I can't.
Speaker A:I'm really not a huge fan of portobello mushrooms or mushrooms in general.
Speaker B:Me either.
Speaker A:But, but when you can like, really get the moisture out of them and get them dried out and get the texture just right.
Speaker A:And you know, I don't know if you know who Derek Sarno is, but he's like the.
Speaker A:Anyway, he's, he just loves mushrooms and cooking with mushrooms and every kind of mushroom you can.
Speaker B:Derek Sono.
Speaker B:What is that?
Speaker B:Derek?
Speaker A:Derek and Chad Sarnow, they started wicked healthy back in the day and I worked with them at Whole Foods.
Speaker A:But wow, they are hardcore, you know, plant based chefs.
Speaker B:I'll check them out.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:But, yeah, so that's, that's really cool.
Speaker B:And speaking of mushrooms, I'm looking forward to getting some of your mushroom burgers.
Speaker B:I order a little bundle.
Speaker B:Oh, there.
Speaker B:So we're gonna see almost, we're gonna taste out here.
Speaker B:I got, I got some broths, I got, I got a few burgers.
Speaker B:I got some other stuff.
Speaker B:So I'm really excited.
Speaker B:I think my order shipped today, so I'm really excited to try those out.
Speaker B:I'm always.
Speaker B:Funny story, as a chef, you're always looking for good things to eat that other people have cooked.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, because you get kind of tired of cooking all your time and eating your own food all the time.
Speaker B:So I'm excited to try those.
Speaker A:Well, I'd love, I'd love to know, like, so what are some of you, the favorite, your favorite meals that you make kind of consistently for.
Speaker A:Maybe you can give me example of something for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
Speaker B:So I typically don't do a lot of breakfast.
Speaker B:You know, I'm pretty light on breakfast smoothie.
Speaker B:I keep it real simple for breakfast.
Speaker B:First seal.
Speaker B:So I do, I have an amazing blueberry smoothie that I do that has pretty much everything.
Speaker B:Blueberries, hemp seeds, plant based milk, a little bit of maple syrup, sun, Sunflower seed.
Speaker B:I mean, I just pretty much just dump everything in there with a little bit of cacao or cacao powder.
Speaker B:And that gets me going most of the day.
Speaker B:Lunch, I'll typically do maybe a salad.
Speaker B:I'm a big fan of Mediterranean food.
Speaker B:Typically when I'm doing like cold dishes like salad.
Speaker B:So I may do a salad with some falafels, some hummus and some olives.
Speaker B:Then for dinner I'd probably do.
Speaker B:I love Asian cuisine.
Speaker B:You know, Asian cuisine is very, very vegan friendly.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So anything Japanese, Vietnamese, Chinese.
Speaker B:You know, I'm a fan.
Speaker B:So, you know, typically do maybe a nice veggie stir fry with maybe some tofu or not or noodles.
Speaker B:And that's pretty much it for me.
Speaker B:I tend to keep it pretty simple.
Speaker A:What do you, what do.
Speaker A:What do you prefer, tofu or tempeh?
Speaker B:Tofu.
Speaker B:You know, I've never, I've never kind of gotten too much into tempeh.
Speaker B:I just couldn't get past this.
Speaker B:The texture of the beans just didn't.
Speaker B:It just didn't.
Speaker B:Yeah, the tempeh is kind of like love it or hate it, from what I've seen with most people now, I do like tempeh bacon.
Speaker B:When people do a good tempeh bacon, that tends to be pretty.
Speaker B:Pretty good.
Speaker B:But with my tofu, I dried out a lot.
Speaker B:So it takes pretty.
Speaker B:Has a pretty meaty consistency to it.
Speaker A:You got a favorite bean?
Speaker B:Black.
Speaker A:Black beans.
Speaker B:Black beans, yeah, black beans.
Speaker B:I love black beans.
Speaker B:Black beans are very good.
Speaker A:What about you got a favorite green leafy vegetable?
Speaker B:You know, pretty much all of them.
Speaker B:You know, I mean, kale is great.
Speaker B:You know?
Speaker B:You know, kale's everywhere right now.
Speaker B:I think I'm doing a lot of arugula.
Speaker B:Arugula's really good.
Speaker B:Really good.
Speaker B:It's quick.
Speaker B:It's quick.
Speaker B:It doesn't take a whole lot of time.
Speaker B:If you want to cook it, you put it in a soup, you can eat it raw.
Speaker B:So I tend to eat a lot of arugula.
Speaker B:I like a lot of butter lettuces.
Speaker B:So a lot of, you know, more of the lighter living lettuces.
Speaker A:Yeah, I noticed that.
Speaker A:I think it was New Year's.
Speaker A:You on, on your Instagram channel, you've got a.
Speaker A:Looks like an amazing maple glazed collard greens.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, those are good.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, those are award winning, Rip.
Speaker B:We might freeze some of those and ship them to you.
Speaker B:But, but that's, that's.
Speaker B:That's a grandmother, honey.
Speaker B:So my grandmother always had a pot of green.
Speaker B:That was kind of her thing, you know, she always had a pot of.
Speaker B:Literally, there was always a pot of greens.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's the cornbread, hot water cornbread on the stove like 24 hours a day.
Speaker B:And so anyone that would come through, there was always at least some greens and cornbread.
Speaker B:And so it's interesting.
Speaker B:That's one of the staples that we do now at all of our events for urban oak to nonprofit.
Speaker B:Like at every event, there's always a pot of collard greens and some cornbreads for anybody who wants to grab something to eat.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:What about black eyed peas?
Speaker A:You like black eyed peas?
Speaker B:Yeah, they're black.
Speaker B:They're good.
Speaker B:They're good.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I love black eyed peas.
Speaker B:They're Good.
Speaker A:Yeah, they seem like they're also kind of a New Year's deal as well.
Speaker B:Oh, definitely, definitely.
Speaker B:Definitely.
Speaker B:I think, you know, they're New Year's all years.
Speaker B:You know, a lot, A lot of.
Speaker B:A lot of history behind them.
Speaker B:Really cheap, you know, full of protein, you know, very, very unique flavor profile on them.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:What.
Speaker A:What about.
Speaker A:Do you have a favorite potato?
Speaker B:You know, it should be sweet potato, right?
Speaker B:Because they're a little bit better for you.
Speaker B:You know, you're saying it's not, but it's not.
Speaker B:You know, I like the little small Yukon Gold.
Speaker B:You know, Yukon Gold is a good potato.
Speaker B:You know, they make great smashed potatoes.
Speaker B:You can, you know, smash them, you can fry them.
Speaker B:So I think Yukon Gold is probably, you know, one of my favorite potatoes.
Speaker B:I mean, I like, I do the purple potatoes on occasion, you know, the heirloom varieties.
Speaker B:But, you know, you can't beat a really good.
Speaker B:A good Yukon Gold potato, I think.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:I saw that you are not a fan, huge fan of eating while you're eat.
Speaker A:I'm sorry, drinking while you're eating.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:During meal time.
Speaker A:And I thought that was really, really interesting what you had to say.
Speaker A:So can you share with people that maybe tend to maybe get bloated and some other things after eating why you're not a fan of drinking during meal time?
Speaker B:Well, definitely.
Speaker B:I mean, I think, you know, the primary purpose when you eat is to digest the food.
Speaker B:And the food assimilates to kind of, you know, fuel all the functions of the body.
Speaker B:You know, we're not eating for pleasure, unfortunately, sometimes that's not the ultimate purpose.
Speaker B:So, you know, your stomach has acids that are designed to, you know, digest your food and assimilate it.
Speaker B:And so when you drink water or any liquid prior to eating, it dilutes the acid.
Speaker B:And so it just kind of makes.
Speaker B:It takes a little bit longer for the food to digest.
Speaker B:The longer that it sits there, it just sort of, for lack of a better word, kind of slowly ferments.
Speaker B:And that creates the gas that's giving us given off of the food.
Speaker B:That, that kind of helps to create in the bloating that you're feeling.
Speaker B:So a lot of times if you just take, you know, a few minutes and maybe stop drinking 30, 30 to 40 minutes before you eat and wait 30 to 40 minutes after you eat, a lot of that bloating will often alleviate and leave your system and you have a much better experience with your food, I think.
Speaker A:Yeah, I.
Speaker A:It's so funny because I Back in the day, I used to date a woman from Hungary and she said, don't you never want to drink while you're eating?
Speaker A:And she told me why, you know, and, and so this is the second time that I've heard that.
Speaker A:And it's interesting because I'm always like down in water while I'm eating.
Speaker A:And so I think I'm going to take, take your message to heart and give that a try.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:You know, I will say this though.
Speaker B:It's a little easier or should I say a little less damaging when you plant based on like everything's a little bit better when you're plant based.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So like everything that might normally affect you, you know, if you eat meat is a little bit better when you plant based.
Speaker B:When you plant based and you drink water, it's a little better because it's still getting out a lot quicker anyway.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because your body's still digesting that plant fiber quicker than it is that meat protein.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I think you're good there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I recently saw that you, you're, you're, you're doing a lot with intermittent fasting.
Speaker A:And if I'm not mistaken, did you also write a book on it?
Speaker B:Not, not a book.
Speaker B:We have a little ebook that we had that we give away on Instagram.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So tell, tell the plan.
Speaker A:Strong audience.
Speaker A:What are your thoughts on intermittent fasting?
Speaker B:Yeah, so I think, you know, intermittent fasting and fasting in general is really, really, really good for the bodies.
Speaker B:I'm not a medical professional.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:So we give the disclaimer.
Speaker B:You know, I'm not a medical professional, but, you know, again, we talked about digesting food and so a lot of people don't know, but digesting food requires the most energy of your body, right?
Speaker B:So your body spends a lot of time and a lot of energy digesting your food.
Speaker B:So if, if, if during certain periods of time you could give your body just a little break, it now can divert some of that energy to doing some other things, like repairing some things, maybe fixing up some cells, maybe know, taking care of some issues that you're having.
Speaker B:And so when you do intermittent fasting, that's what it allows it to do.
Speaker B:You know, you allow your body a set amount of time, you know, to sort of, you know, repair itself.
Speaker B:You know, there are a lot of different ways you could do intermittent fasting.
Speaker B:Some people do, you know, one day a week and then eat the other, you know, six days or they do, you know, eat during an eight hour window and then they don't eat for 16 hours.
Speaker B:But the bottom line is whenever you do fast, it's really just, it's less about not eating and more about helping your body divert some of that energy to doing some more critical functions that you may need at the time.
Speaker A:You know what's really interesting about that is when you think about it, when you do get sick with, with the flu or something like that, your appetite typically goes completely away.
Speaker B:It does.
Speaker A:It's your body's way of saying, you know what we're going to put everything into get making you better.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:And you're not going to eat because that's going to basically interfere with that process.
Speaker B:Definitely.
Speaker B:And you most definitely don't want to eat some chicken noodle soup.
Speaker B:So with us later.
Speaker A:Chicken noodle soup for the soul.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:You know, maybe some broth.
Speaker B:Do like some veggie broth.
Speaker B:Do something real simple.
Speaker B:But like, you know, let's, let's, you know, let's hold off on the chicken noodle Soup.
Speaker B:But you're 100% right.
Speaker B:100% right, babe.
Speaker B:That is your body just saying, hey, you know, let's, let's use that energy elsewhere.
Speaker A:And so you recently went on 72 hour fast.
Speaker A:Yeah, I was.
Speaker A:How was that experience?
Speaker B:That was amazing.
Speaker B:Rep.
Speaker B:You know, I had never done that before.
Speaker B:I mean, I've done like 24 hour fast.
Speaker B:That's no big deal.
Speaker B:But I'd never done the 72.
Speaker B:And you know, much to my surprise, after the first two days, the third day, my energy level was through the roof.
Speaker B:I mean, like, I was, I was, I was in a gym, I was bench pressing, I was, I was curling.
Speaker B:You know, I had some friends, they was like, man, wow, you look great.
Speaker B:You're like glowing, you know, And I was, I was really shocked myself, you know, But I think again, it's that, you know, that notion of, you know, your body just had a chance to just kind of fix everything and repair it, you know, and, and I didn't do a complete best time.
Speaker B:I was drinking juice.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:I mean, I was drinking like fruit juice.
Speaker B:So I was still getting nutrients and vitamins and a small amount of protein, you know, So I wasn't just, you know, not eating anything.
Speaker B:But yeah, it was, it was a surprise for me, you know, I was, I was pleasantly surprised.
Speaker A:First time that you've done that?
Speaker B:It was, it was the first time that I've done it.
Speaker B:I'm actually getting ready to do another one maybe in another, another, another couple of weeks.
Speaker B:It was so successful.
Speaker B:But yeah, it was, it was amazing.
Speaker B:I never, I've never, I've never felt that much energy.
Speaker B:You know, my brain was a lot clearer.
Speaker B:My inflammation, you know, was, was down, you know, so I think it's kind of back to the same thing.
Speaker B:Literally my body had three days to kind of fix stuff, you know, so it didn't have to, you know, you know, digest food, you know, for three days.
Speaker B:So it said, hey, you know, we're just, I don't have anything to do.
Speaker B:I guess we'll just fix this over here and we'll fix the inflammation and we'll take care of this.
Speaker B:It was an amazing experience.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Super interesting.
Speaker A:Have you ever heard of True North Health center in Santa Rosa, California?
Speaker B:I have not.
Speaker A:It's a water only fasting facility and they've been around for over 40 years.
Speaker A:And people fast anywhere from basically two days to some people up to 40 days.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:And it's medically supervised and you're there on, at the, at the clinic.
Speaker A:But anyway, it's, it's pretty darn, pretty darn amazing.
Speaker A:And a lot of amazing doctors are affiliated with that.
Speaker A:Dr.
Speaker A:Clapper used to work there.
Speaker A:John, John McDougall did some stuff there.
Speaker A:Dr.
Speaker A:Douglas, Dr.
Speaker A:Alan Goldhammer.
Speaker A:Just a lot of, a lot of rock stars and not a lot of.
Speaker B:Legends in the game.
Speaker B:You know, you throw out some big names there.
Speaker B:Those, those are some giants.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker A:So you say, you love to say that we are what we eat.
Speaker A:And you have an Instagram post where you show people your thumb and this horrendous, horrendous break.
Speaker A:And it looks like, it's just, it looks like hamburgers.
Speaker A:Meat.
Speaker B:Frank, it's mango.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's mango.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then, and then like a year later, it looks just as good as the other side.
Speaker A:And I would have bet that it would have been.
Speaker A:You would have been disfigured forever.
Speaker B:Me too.
Speaker A:And I'm sure you're a doctor too, so can you show us both your thumbs and tell me like, what you attribute that success to?
Speaker B:So incredible thumbs there, you know, they're both the same.
Speaker B:Yeah, you know, I definitely, I attribute it to diet RIP 100, you know, the break.
Speaker B:So for those of you who don't, you don't want to see it, but if you go to page, you can see it.
Speaker B:But I mean, it was, it was horrendous.
Speaker B:Like I was, I was scared.
Speaker B:I was an ambulance.
Speaker B:I mean, the doctor, every, every doctor that came And I saw three or four different doctors in the span of about like, 20 minutes.
Speaker B:And everyone that came and said, hey, I'll be right back.
Speaker B:Let me go get somebody.
Speaker A:How did you break it?
Speaker B:I like to tell people I was doing something like, you know, jumping off a mountain or, you know, I come up with these just these amazing stories like, oh, my God, that's amazing.
Speaker B:I saved the pit bull.
Speaker B:I saved the kid from a pit bull.
Speaker B:I stuck my hand out there.
Speaker B:You are so amazing.
Speaker B:But in all actuality, Rip, I was walking out of a.
Speaker B:A door.
Speaker B:I was carrying a couple tables.
Speaker B:We had an event and I was carrying some tables and I, like, tripped on my shoelace.
Speaker B:It just.
Speaker B:It was a weird.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker B:It was just a freak accident.
Speaker B:Somehow my thumb hit the concrete at the exact correct angle.
Speaker B:That pulled off the nail.
Speaker B:It pulled off all of the nail bed.
Speaker B:I mean, it was.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was, it was.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker B:It was tough.
Speaker B:It was tough.
Speaker A:And you.
Speaker B:About a year.
Speaker A:You need to go through some surgeries too.
Speaker B:Yeah, I did.
Speaker B:I had.
Speaker B:Yeah, I had surgery on the thumb they put in.
Speaker B:You know, he redid the thumb and everything.
Speaker B:And it.
Speaker B:Even now it still tingles, you know, a little bit.
Speaker B:So it's still healing.
Speaker B:But I will say it was amazing to watch it just kind of rebuild and regrow and like the nail to grow and just.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker B:Because it was, it was a year long process.
Speaker B:The doctor said, hey, it's going to be like a year before the nail grow.
Speaker B:So, you know, as.
Speaker B:As adults, you know, we've never seen our, you know, we never see ourselves grow.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:You never seen your thumb or your nail, because we're just, we're grown, you know, saying, so you never see it grow.
Speaker B:So like, to see something grow back slowly, it was just a very amazing experience.
Speaker B:And so with the, you know, the plant based diet and the other things that I was doing, you know, I.
Speaker B:I definitely feel it was, you know, as a result of, like, you know, what I ate.
Speaker B:You know, like I said, you know, you know, you are what you need.
Speaker B:You know, the quality of what you're putting into your body determines everything, really.
Speaker B:Everything.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I want to pivot right now to talk a little bit more about the Urban Oak initiative, which is your 501c3 that.
Speaker A:Has it always been called that or did you rename it when you took it over?
Speaker B:So I renamed it.
Speaker B:It was originally called Helping Hand Ministries.
Speaker B:It was, it was kind of more church.
Speaker B:It was church focused.
Speaker B:When my grandmother first started, you know, that was kind of the institution, you know, in the town where they were at it.
Speaker B:So was Urban Oak.
Speaker B:I mean it was Helping Hand Ministries.
Speaker B: And then in: Speaker B:The name is Urban Oak Initiative.
Speaker B:And Urban oak is.
Speaker B:Stands for urban work, primarily in urban areas, you know, economically challenged areas of oak for oak tree that still stands in my grandmother's yard today.
Speaker B:That was kind of planned.
Speaker B:It was planted at around the time that I was, I was kind of coming to the earth like, you know, when I was like three or four was planted.
Speaker B:So I said, hey, let's go with that.
Speaker B:And our logo is a tree is an oak tree, you know, with a.
Speaker B:It's an oak tree with.
Speaker B:It looks like it's a fist, but it's a play on words because it's really not a fist.
Speaker B:It's a hand with a seed.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:You know, so.
Speaker B:So we try to try to play on that and plant those seeds and really plant seeds for the future with the nonprofit.
Speaker A:Yeah, so I want to just let everybody know.
Speaker A:So your, your mission is to feed the people.
Speaker A:You have a quote and they're saying, I believe that everyone has a right to eat healthy, wholesome and nourishing food.
Speaker A:As a society, we should advocate for food justice and equity, particularly in communities of color.
Speaker A:I'd love to know like some of the initiatives that you're doing right now with your Urban Oak non profit and ways that we, the listener of the Plantstrom podcast, can get involved, support, donate all those things.
Speaker B:Definitely.
Speaker B:Well, you know, number one will be just kind of going to the website and I think, I think you all will share that on the platform afterwards.
Speaker B:But we have three specific programs.
Speaker B:One is called Kids Can Cook and that is a program where we go into community centers and schools and we show young people how to cook plant based food.
Speaker B:We're not taking them to culinary school.
Speaker B:So these are just kind of like basic, you know, how to use an air fryer, you know how to use a hot pot, you know how to make smoothies, how to do salads and things like that.
Speaker B:And so that is kids can cook.
Speaker B:The second program is.
Speaker A:And that is in that cavity is for children 12 to 18.
Speaker A:Is there an age range?
Speaker B:Primarily like, primarily like, you know, let's like 8, 8 to 8 to 16 range.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Elementary, middle and early high school.
Speaker B:You know, when they're forming those eating patterns, you know, the kids can cook.
Speaker B:And then the second one is, we recently renamed this one, but it's called.
Speaker B:The second one is Plants over Pills.
Speaker B:And that is a food is Medicine initiative that we do targeted towards seniors and just kind of the community in general where we do plant based pop ups, plant based outreach and provide information about the benefits of plant based eating and give people a way to sample what we call culturally relevant foods, you know.
Speaker B:And then the last one is the foodpreneur program that we operate in Atlanta where we are building the nation's first 100% plant based commercial kitchen that will serve as a place where other small plant based businesses can come in and create their food products and then be able to sell them or give them away, you know, throughout the community.
Speaker B:So what we've tried to do rep is create just a little ecosystem of.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, support for the, for the young people with the plant based food.
Speaker B:The seniors are then being able to have, you know, products and entrepreneurship around plant based eating as well.
Speaker B:And it's been going really, really well.
Speaker B:You know, and the other thing I'll say is, I think, you know, as we kind of embrace this plant based, that term kind of culturally relevant is important.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because everybody, every culture eats differently.
Speaker B:You know, you ask me what was my favorite food?
Speaker B:Chinese, Mediterranean, Asian or whatever.
Speaker B:So, you know, I think that's one of the things, you know, we, as chefs and plant based people can do more of, is really, you know, making things more appropriate.
Speaker B:You know, a lot of the people in our communities, they don't really jive too well with hummus right now.
Speaker B:You know, that's not a common texture profile for us, you know, so, you know, we have to go with the collard greens or the black eyed peas and find unique and creative ways to introduce those to people so that they like it.
Speaker B:Because the bottom line, riff, is, you know, whether, you know, you know, if, if you want people to be more plant based, you know, people are going to eat food that doesn't taste good, you know, no matter.
Speaker B:So me, you know, you, you know, you, you all have food products and so, you know, if they don't taste good, you know, it has to, it has, the flavor has to be there.
Speaker B:You know, we try to do that in everything that we do is keep that flavor in there.
Speaker A:Oh yeah.
Speaker A:Otherwise you're not going to have a repeat, repeat customer.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's really.
Speaker A:I love the way you've kind of broken up.
Speaker A:You know, the nonprofit, you got the kids can cook, you got the Plants over pills for, you know, the older people.
Speaker A:I think your Instagram is Plants over Pills collective.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I love the way you're also kind of, I mean, the Food, food premiere, I think you said, where you're creating that food kitchen, commercialized food kitchen, just for plant based.
Speaker A:And, you know, you're going to welcome people in there that want to be entrepreneurial and all that stuff.
Speaker A:I mean, what a great ecosystem.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, we're excited about it, you know, and I think it's going to, it's going to do well and it's right in the middle of, you know, a community that, you know, has, you know, low access to food, you know, some economic challenges.
Speaker B:So we've been very well received there.
Speaker B:You know, people are loving the jackfruit, they're loving the tofu, they're loving, you know, the different things, you know, and so we're really excited to be able to do more to help, help those individuals, you know, eat better.
Speaker B:Because I think, you know, like you mentioned, you know, everyone should, you know, there's no whole foods over there.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You know, so.
Speaker B:But does that mean that they shouldn't have the opportunity to eat good and wholesome plant based food?
Speaker B:Everybody, you know, you know, I think as kind of advocates in this plant based space, if we're going to be real advocates, we want everybody to be able to eat, you know, more plant based food.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Tell me this because, you know, you, you're really advocating, you say, for, you know, social justice or for food justice.
Speaker A:What have you found as far as, are they receptive to the plant based message in the food or is there a stigma or something that comes with, hey, you know, you're telling me I shouldn't be eating like animal products and meat and hey, you know, I'm a, I'm a man, I need my protein.
Speaker A:I can tell you in the, in the firefighting culture, it was almost impossible to get these guys to do it.
Speaker A:They just felt so attached and they were so self identified.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think, you know, it's as difficult, I think, as it might be with anyone else.
Speaker B:I think we introduce things that are familiar, you know, tacos, spaghetti's, soul food, things like that.
Speaker B:We just make it healthy.
Speaker B:And so that has allowed us not have as much resistance as we normally would because we make it palatable and not trying to pat myself on the back, but it's good.
Speaker B:Yeah, you know, it's really good.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, there you go.
Speaker A:I mean, if it's, if it's good and it fills you up and it tastes delicious, what's there not to like about it, right?
Speaker B:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker B:Definitely.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Well, Chef Kev, I so admire kind of your journey where You've landed the incredible advocacy work that you're doing with Urban Oak Initiative.
Speaker A:I would encourage everybody to go and.
Speaker A:And check out.
Speaker A:Check out the website and the great work you're doing and to.
Speaker A:To.
Speaker A:To donate if you so feel.
Speaker A:If you so feel like it.
Speaker A:But, you know, I'm gonna let you get back to your conference.
Speaker B:But I appreciate it, Rip.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I just want you to know how much I love your work and I consider you a plant strong brother.
Speaker A:So thank you.
Speaker B:And I appreciate you, Rip, for giving us the opportunity and me the opportunity just to share our message and our mission with everyone.
Speaker B:You all are doing amazing work as well, and I'll definitely let you know how those samples when I get my plants drone box later on today when I get home.
Speaker B:I'm gonna try the burgers first, so I'll let you know.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:And just remember, it's six ounces of water.
Speaker A:Don't go seven or eight because you don't want it watery.
Speaker A:Don't make it too watery.
Speaker B:Hey, Riff, I'm a chef.
Speaker B:You know, we don't read directions.
Speaker B:We just throw it all in there.
Speaker B:But I will read it this time just because you asked.
Speaker B:I'll make sure I do it correct, as you, the chef, as intended.
Speaker B:Rip.
Speaker B:I appreciate the opportunity.
Speaker B:Good, good.
Speaker A:Hey, will you give me a virtual plan?
Speaker A:Strong fist bump on the way out?
Speaker B:I will.
Speaker B:Pow.
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker A:Boom.
Speaker A:Boom.
Speaker B:Take care, buddy.
Speaker A:I want to give a huge shout out to chef Kevin McGee for reminding us that food is much more than fuel.
Speaker A:It's connection, it's culture, and it's a catalyst for change.
Speaker A:If you were inspired by Kevin's story, visit his website@urbanoakfood.org to see how you can get involved and support his programming.
Speaker A:Thanks, as always, for listening and supporting the show.
Speaker A:Until next week, always, always keep it Plantstrong.
Speaker A:The Plantstrong podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Lori Kordowich, and Amy Mackey.
Speaker A:If you like what you hear, do us a favor and share the show with your friends and loved ones.
Speaker A:You can always leave a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
Speaker A:And while you're there, make sure to hit that follow button so that you never miss an episode.
Speaker A:As always, this and every episode is dedicated to my my parents, Dr.
Speaker A:Caldwell B.
Speaker A:Esselstyn Jr.
Speaker A:And Ann Krile Esselstyn.
Speaker A:Thanks so much for listening.
