Summary:

Join us in this episode of "In The Bunker," featuring digital marketing expert Charley Tichenor. With over seven years of experience, Charley has successfully navigated the challenges of the evolving digital landscape, overcoming rising costs and decreasing global consensus. He shares insights on building brands in this dynamic field and strategies for effectively planning for business scaling.

Our episode highlights:

• Charley's background and rise to becoming a top Facebook advertiser in the U.S.
• The challenges of adapting to constant changes in digital marketing and maintaining competitiveness on popular platforms.
• Strategies Charley used to overcome rising costs and changes in the digital marketing world.
• Advice for entrepreneurs facing similar challenges, focusing on market saturation, the effectiveness of different marketing channels, and the importance of strategic planning and better tracking.

Bio:

Charles "Charley" Tichenor, a top Facebook advertiser in the United States, specializes in strategic and creative problem-solving in digital marketing. He has a deep understanding of the digital landscape and its continuous evolution. Charley has a rich history of helping brands grow in the competitive digital space, leveraging his expertise to guide businesses through challenges like rising costs and evolving market dynamics.

Links:

• Website: http://www.facebookdisrupter.com
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3kl2OhNRZ1rH_4bnd0Ap7g
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctthedisrupter/
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/CTtheDisrupter
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charleytichenoriv/

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Awesome today.

We have Charlie Kitchener on on, in the bunker and Charlie was

really faced with a challenge of.

Consistent change in the digital marketing landscape and the ever-growing number

of businesses that are using the same platforms with online competition,

continuing to grow, and the ability to make a sale being harder than it's ever

been before he was facing this challenge on a daily basis with their clients.

However, despite the.

He's made it through and has over seven years of experience in really

helping businesses have that strategic and creative problem solving aspect

to overcome those marketing issues.

He's helped build brands in an ever-changing world of the digital

marketing space and in spite of costs, continuing to rise and

global consensus overall dropping.

There's so much to learn from this.

And I'm super excited to jump in and learn about how Charlie's overcame this issue.

Great to have you all on and spend a little time to chat with you

today.

Oh, well, thank you so much for having me, man.

I appreciate it.

It's a, it's a beautiful day here in LA.

I promise outside that window.

I can, there's not a cloud.

I can see outside of this window.

So it's a pretty good day.

That's awesome.

That's awesome.

Cool.

Yeah.

I'm in the LA area as well, so it's really good to chat and, you know talk about

the 93 degree weather outside today.

And when is it not though?

Awesome.

Well, let's do this.

Let's have you give a sort of a 92nd background.

Like who are you?

How'd you get here?

What does that look like?

Yeah.

So I'm Charlie, I'm one of the top a hundred Facebook

advertisers in the United States.

And a lot of the other ones are students of mine.

Over the last near decade, I've really, I came up starting an organic

and then started getting into paid.

And shortly in a, in a, in a small amount of time, I went from putting

my credit card in Facebook to promote some local projects, to managing a

million dollars a day for big brands on behalf of global international, you

know ad agencies with big CBS television Nissan, a million different things that

the list goes on and on and on and on.

And over that time of.

To build a career around challenging what people think you necessarily

should be doing and how that applies into the digital space.

Especially with Facebook at the time being very nuanced and

very early on in the system.

So I've been able to grow along with it.

And as a result of spending a lot of money and doing a lot of case studies

and challenging the status quo, I ended up getting known by Facebook as

somebody that worked very well with them.

And I ended up working really closely with their engineering department

and product team to define a lot of what things are supposed to be done.

And now a lot of those case studies are sort of taught by Facebook

to experts in agencies, be a reps is what you're supposed to do.

And over that time, I've spent a couple of hundred million dollars.

I've got hundreds of case studies.

I brought the dynamic product ads and lead gen ad unit to market.

I was in the alphas for those and a lot of other things that never made it to

market because they never actually worked.

And now I'm just really in the space of trying to help brands see success

and really understand like what you can do to minimize your time and

maximize your profit because I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding

around how Facebook is supposed to be.

And I think that comes from either people, a coming from email or Google or

B learning after Facebook was super easy from other people that had no idea what

they were doing were just in the right place at the right time of the world.

Really good brand.

And the honest truth is about 80% of the people that buy media on Facebook

have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the platform works and I'm here

to help people see success with that.

And that's kind of where I'm at.

Awesome.

Awesome.

Now I want to hone in on one thing you said you've you have in a single

day done a million dollar ad buy.

Oh yeah.

Now it doesn't require a million dollars to run a Facebook ad campaign.

Sure.

But the budgets can be anywhere from, you know, $2 a day to

millions of dollars a day.

And in reality, You know, the, the strategy and some

of that type has aspects.

It doesn't really change much irrelevant of you're spending $2 or $2 million.

Yeah.

I

mean, I will say this, it depends on where your business is, but

what matters way more than anything else?

I mean, look, it's nice to say, put some stuff down there.

Like, oh, I spent 10 million then.

That sounds fun.

You also rip your hair out, but it sounds fun.

And you know, it's, it's a nice sounding thing and, and between a bunch of brands

and a bunch of different platforms, and that's just on Facebook at the same

time as doing the same thing on Twitter and having, you know, Pinterest and

LinkedIn, but Facebook is our main lane.

The.

It really comes down to one of four business objectives.

Are you trying to get top line growth, bottom line growth market

share or awareness and whatever it is that you're trying to do for your

business, the strategy to maximize your investment should be whatever that is.

At the end of the day, your Facebook ad account is around business is around

your business development strategy.

And the, what you should be doing is understanding what is the unfair

advantage that this platform can bring.

To your ecosystem and then leveraging that to the nth degree.

And yeah, the same thing I do at 500, a days more or less what I do

at 50,000 a day because Facebook's business model hasn't changed in

years and their algorithm has had two updates since I started in 20 13,

20 14 at a million dollar budgets.

So.

What works is always working.

What doesn't work generally continues to not work.

And there are people that can do things wrong and they'll still succeed

because their business model works.

And there are people in the bad business, no matter what they do on Facebook,

all they're going to end up doing is spending a whole bunch of money,

telling people they have a bad business.

So it is fairly consistent.

Yeah.

And those are, those are the businesses that don't understand

their ideal, you know, their ideal customer who their target market is.

And.

If you don't understand who your target market is, your ideal client,

you shouldn't be advertising yet.

Unless you're attempting to get more data to figure out a product or something.

But at that point you should be seriously working with someone

who knows what they're doing.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

I want to dive in to talk about your sort of big challenge.

What is your biggest challenge that you've faced in, in business?

You know, in regard to.

Yeah.

I mean, I think the biggest challenge that we're seeing, especially, I

mean, in the Facebook ads world in the marketing in general, between iOS 15

and iOS 14, I mean every year apple releases a new operating system that

creates a lot of havoc for everybody.

iOS 14 was the end of the world end of days.

And so as iOS 12, and so was the implementation of that

Facebook pixel, because back in the day that didn't even exist.

We didn't even have a conversion.

I was spending a million dollars a day when it was just the PPC

platform, trying to meet with Google.

End of the days, every time they make an update.

But the problem is if you run a business that gets used to being successful by

you doing certain things, and then people change the rules or make it harder for

you to do things in a way that you figured out, then it ultimately does make it

more difficult to get people to buy in.

And I think one of the biggest struggles that I've been facing

a lot with, with brands is.

Really letting them know how to pivot their model, that didn't necessarily

rely on treating their partners or their vendors in the way that they should have.

I mean, the honest truth is people were able to several years ago, basically do

everything wrong and print a lot of money.

And the law of diminishing the returns that they've gotten from them.

It has been something that the global consensus of Facebook ads is that

it's harder and harder to make money.

It's wildly unstable.

They're just trying to take your money from you.

You shouldn't trust them on things.

And like it's just getting more and more expensive.

And at some point it's just going to stop working.

The honest truth is if you have a good business model and you know how

to work, the machine millionaires are getting made every single day.

I mean, I've had clients double their ad budget this year.

In spite of everything that's happening because it provides

a great opportunity for them because they're doing things well.

So I think the biggest challenge is one getting business owners to understand

the mental shift that they have to make.

And also it's being able to communicate what they're supposed to do, especially

when, for what it's worth the vast majority of experts out there.

I don't know what they're supposed to do with contextual information.

So there, if you're in a room and 99 out of a hundred, people say

you're supposed to do something.

And then somebody else says, well, no, everybody's complaining

because they're wrong.

Here's what you're supposed to do.

It becomes very alienated.

But you know, it, it.

It's validating to see that 99% of the people in the room turning tomorrow

60 or 70% because the other 20 or 30 are quoting things that I did two,

three years ago, they're catching up, but at least we're getting there.

But that's the big challenge is really getting people to buy in when

there's so much bad information.

And also it's very predatory space.

You know, there's a lot of folks that.

No, there's a lot of money to be made because everybody wants to make money.

And so there's a cash grab of like, let me just put out as much

bad information as I possibly can.

And then you some version of why people should trust me to get their cash in hand.

And I can't tell you how many people I know that are really,

really good business people.

They run really successful agencies that tell you how to run your ads

and my response to anybody that says, well, this guy tells me.

It's like, great.

They're really good at running the business.

If your iPhone breaks, does Tim cook have the answer on how to fix it?

Answer is no.

You would never ask the executive running a multi-billion dollar

company, how to handle your executional problems because that's not their job.

They shouldn't know that there are plenty of other things

that they're really good at.

And so getting your answer from somebody whose day job has no bearing

on being able to answer your question.

Pollutes the space.

And so I think one of the biggest things is just being able to cut through so much

of the noise, because part of being able to cut through that noise also positioned

you as sort of a contrarian and you know, it doesn't help that Facebook calls

their elite group of advertisers, the disruptor group and disruptor brands.

So when I come into a space I'm awfully disruptive because I'm one

of the lead people in that group and it can be off-putting and.

I think the last big piece, there is a lot of these folks that are experts in

their field, or very highly regarded that have been around for a long time.

A lot of them don't know that they don't know what they're

doing, which is a real big issue.

And I know a lot of very successful people that came up because they had a few really

successful clients will honestly would have succeeded with or without them.

And I'm Ben in that space.

I used to work with Activision.

The call of duty launch was like $15 million over a month.

Do you think they needed my Facebook ad account to make call of duty

for a successful business venture?

No, you don't.

When CBS is launching a TV show, like the new host of the late show,

they don't need my media dollars to make that show a success.

And there's a lot of agencies that came up with those great clients and

they were able to make things work by brute force and a lot of tests.

But it doesn't mean that what they were doing was bright.

It just means they had a client that was so good that they could do

everything wrong and still succeed.

And they've been around long enough that they have this perceived legitimacy.

So I think the biggest struggle is getting people to buy into something

that challenges what they accept.

And, you know, the biggest struggle there is, or the biggest pain point

for them is if you're going to believe these folks, then you're going to

also believe that you hopeless.

And the honest truth is they're wrong and there's a path.

Yeah.

Well, I think so much of that, your point to the

aspect of, you know, you can, you can go to your kitchen right now

and arbitrarily grab ingredients.

And if you do that 10,000 times.

And you pull up a recipe at random 10,000 times, you might have a chance

of grabbing the right ingredients for that random blind recipe.

And so you're like, oh look, I grabbed all the right items.

And I made this amazing thing.

And what sadly agencies like you're talking about, aren't saying is

yes, we hope these, we have these 10 case studies that are amazing.

But we've worked with 40,000 companies.

Sure.

And so the success rate is tiny and it's not to say that.

It's a hundred percent of the agency's fault because maybe the client didn't

understand who their customer was or they got into a space that, you know, I know

in the state of California, like bail bonds has changed so drastically with

different laws in the state of California.

And so you get legislation that comes in and shifts a whole entire market.

You get things like Facebook ads.

You know, now if you're going to do real estate or auto loans or anything, you have

to check the box and say that it is that.

And then that changes what you can target.

And so there's legislative changes that are outside of people's controls.

There's a lot of stuff.

Is within a business's control, but a lot that's outside of as well.

You know, things like the market and where we are just globally.

But so how looking at these challenges of just the Facebook platform and the

element of so many businesses attempting to use it as basically the way to

just make a million dollars overnight.

How do businesses overcome this of having a sex, you know, a successful campaign?

Yeah, I mean,

I think, and I've been in those agencies too, where it was like,

I mean, honestly, the agency model there for some color is like you get two or

three flagship product projects that make a bunch of money, and then you have your

sales team bringing a whole bunch of folks who you don't even expect to be there six

months from now to bring in your cash.

And hopefully one of them becomes something you can invest

in, or that you can, you can build your brand off of again.

And the churn rate on.

Raisie I mean, 90 day contracts to see whether or not you're going to

be able to strike oil with somebody.

And that's why brands are on agency seven and two years because they

just keep getting spit out because nobody's like, well, our turnkey

system doesn't work for you because we would require us to do work.

Outside of what we've trained everybody to do and require us to work with

you, to develop your business model, to make things work, or maybe you're

not willing to listen to them.

So your point to make the client could be the problem.

And so I've seen that over and over and over again.

And to, to answer deeper into your question, one of the things

that really comes in handy, or that we face a lot, that when I'm

trying to have conversations with.

We have to shift the mindset of Facebook is what's going to

make my business successful.

You have to think of it as your own fuel for the fire.

If you don't have a successful business, then it's not going to improve things.

It is going to amplify wherever you're at.

So if you're losing money right now, because your business isn't.

Throwing money at Facebook is only going to magnify that loss.

And if you have a successful business where Facebook can be

the thing that amplifies it, then you're in a great space.

So a lot of this comes down to, in my opinion, the job of a media buyer,

Facebook, or whatever is really to understand at a very rudimentary level,

your budget this month might be $10,000.

Why isn't it 20?

What is wrong with your business?

Or what can we fix to double this budget?

Now I can do the best thing.

I can return you an investment, but ultimately it's about me looking at the

data that I have and understanding that customer flow in your business model to

understand why you can't give me twice as much money to go acquire customers or.

Should we be spending it all, but like, what is it about your customers

and your clients and their businesses that is preventing them from being

able to feed this more and more?

Because the honest truth is if everything works, then it's just

a run rate of like, well, how much money do we have in the bank?

And that number should go up on a consistent basis.

If you're good at your job, that budget should not be.

And so a lot of this comes into working very closely with those businesses.

And at the end of the day, the best media buyers that I know are project

managers that are really good at business development because the

system is smarter than all of us.

And for lack of a better word, it's the best way to use it is to keep

it as simple as possible so that you can invest in all your resources and

understanding and improving everything that happens after the click.

Yeah, I want to hone in on something because you

said something there that is huge.

You're talking about.

Investing in marketing and it's going to magnify whatever the problem is.

If it's a successful business, it's going to, you know, two X, three

X, 10 X, whatever that business is, if the business is losing

cash, it's going to magnify that.

And I think that's so key.

To marketing just as a whole irrelevant of the platform, because so many businesses

don't understand that they have to have processes and procedures in place.

Because if a business is used to getting referrals,

referrals, aren't a ton of work.

If they're a service-based business or whatever, where a lead from Facebook

is very different than a referral from a friend of a friend or whoever.

The sales process for referral is done.

They're just looking for a price point to book a call or to book the service

where a cold lead there's education.

There's a more of a relationship building aspect.

And so if that business doesn't have, and I liked the point you brought up

with the business development, the best Facebook, you know, the best

media buyers are business development.

People.

Because if those processes aren't in place and they don't have a good CRM

system or a good lead generation to conversion flow or funnel, then doesn't

matter how much money you spend.

It's not going to work.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think that's, and I've noticed this more and more, especially as.

And the last couple of years, when I really started to work with agency

development and brand development at seven and eight figure businesses,

I heard the same complaints from dozens or hundreds of people.

And I, my DMS on Twitter are full of these folks where they're like, Hey,

these are the experts in the space and they don't know what's going

on or they're complaining a lot.

Or they keep telling me that this is the next solution.

And my response to them is like, they're the experts in the space and

running a business that gets you to pay them to think that they're the

experts that has nothing to do with them actually being good at their job.

And then they say, well, here's this case that this business might get a

business run by an extraordinarily successful business person.

And this is the partner they went with.

Well, and that's where I love the ones.

I get Facebook ads running a digital agency, myself.

I get Facebook ads from, oh, I ran a digital agency for five years and now

I want to train you on how to do it.

And I'm like, wait, so what are you doing now?

You, you left your digital agency job and you're not running it anymore.

So you're going to train me on what happened five years ago.

I mean, if.

If you took the tactics that you first started learning and the

advertising methodology that you first started learning the first day

that you did any type of advertising and tried implementing that now.

That's going to provide different results then what you use today.

And that might just be content strategy.

That might be colors.

That might be, who knows what photography, you know, I look back,

you go to anybody's Instagram and you scroll all the way back to the bottom

of their feed and everybody has.

That image with like the, it looks like someone cut it out on paper

with the little, you know, Russell, everybody's got that same filter because

that's what we all used back then.

You don't do that anymore.

Now it's overly saturated and processed and it's a very different look.

And so just that someone just posting personal stuff, we're not

even talking about specific ads and then you go into the ad space and

you look at, you know, what it adds.

You know, a few years ago versus today.

And so I think that shift of so many businesses say, oh, well,

this worked for this person four years ago, I'm going to try it.

It's trends change.

And so things change.

And I think it's really good to be on top of that change.

And then there's also the inverse of these things too, of like, I feel

like a lot of people take that to the nth degree of content is one thing.

And strategy is something else which I might agree with or not, but it really

depends on how your business is going.

But one of the biggest liabilities that I see out in the space is everybody's

saying something along the lines of.

And one of the things I hear all the time is like, none of my

lookalikes are working right now.

And it's like, that probably means you're using them wrong.

Or people saying, well, like this attribution model, doesn't

this, this, this optimization window doesn't work anymore.

You got to switch to this thing.

And it's like, well, that has nothing to do with it.

Like there are some constants that you have to keep in and there's some ways

of thinking about the problem solving.

I, I think one of the biggest.

Liabilities is a fundamental misunderstanding of how these platforms

function and what their business objectives are and how they're supposed

to, how they're trying to reach them.

I mean, as a very high level, for instance, Facebook itself and Instagram

and their whole entire business model is they sell attention for profits.

If you want to be successful and you want to mitigate high cost.

You have to make the attention that you buy good for Facebook's bottom line.

So if your ads or your content isn't appealing, you're going

to be sewing to less people.

And we see this with organic.

Like if your post isn't good, you get less likes and less reach.

Well, if your ad isn't good, you get less.

Now ad good for you.

Versus Facebook are two very different things for Facebook.

It's about their estimated action rate and a whole bunch of other

acronyms we can get down to.

But basically if your ad is being shown to somebody and they're are not

likely to respond positively, or it causes them to leave, then you're a

liability to Facebook's business model.

When we're getting into that.

One of the biggest issues that we see around, for instance, audience

targeting or all this other stuff is if you're trying to take an ad

and find who can you force this content to so that it might work.

You're immediately disrespecting the end user and your business partner,

because there's a real person on the other end of that dollar.

And there's an entire platform.

And there's a reason why the same people that complain about which audience

is working in which attribution model or optimization window was working,

are also complaining about their CPMs, because Facebook is saying.

You're not a good, you're not a good faith partner to us.

We know you're out here, but you're a liability to our business success.

So we're going to charge you more money to exist.

And then also if your delivery times on accurate or people complain

about your product or your customer services, Then you're also a liability

because phase people are getting upset that they saw that Facebook

ad and they're getting angry.

So because your business isn't run with respect to the customer,

Facebook is also going to ping you your page scores, what they call it.

If your page score is below a two, you can't even run business.

Now that doesn't necessarily mean anything to anybody, but you pay the score.

If it's above, if you increase your page score from like a two and

a half to like a four and a half your costs for advertising, same

exact ad, same exact audience, same exact everything might drop by 50%.

Because Facebook has deemed, oh, now you're a good player.

Now you are taking care of our, our business model.

And so when people try to solve their problems, they're always trying to

figure out like, how do we get the sale?

What do we do this?

What's the audience for all of these things.

And then forget.

It's all about matching the content with the end user that the person wants to see.

And maybe the reason that that ad that doesn't meet your business objectives is

getting all of the spend is because it's the ad that people want to see the most.

And your job is to really manage that balance.

And if you think about it in those simple terms, if every decision is how do I

make the end user's experience better?

Well also magnifying my needs as a business for the one thing I'm asking

Facebook to do in a way that also lets the platform, make all of the informed

decisions it possibly can to give me the most consistent results, then you

aren't going to be solving the problem in a way that the vast majority of.

Experts and gurus and agencies, whatever won't present to you

because it also undermines their validity as an advertiser.

If, if the answer to your successes, creative tested broad and work on your

business model, the person who is most threatened by that is the company that

relies on these massive spreadsheets and great PowerPoint decks in a

percentage of your ad spend to run.

Because it's a insecurity that they have of like, I can't provide value if I can't

press a bunch of buttons and show you a bunch of information and the honest truth.

You know, who doesn't care about that information is the person that

owns the company that hired you.

They don't care when you get on a client call as an agency.

The number one goal of that call is to get off the phone as fast as possible.

Make the person that hired you look good to their boss and make the results

this month, better than last month.

If there is anything that gets in the way of that, then it

is a liability to your time.

And it is bad for business for you to dive in.

But I feel like that is something where somebody that isn't competent

delivering that result needs to lean on other things to feel important.

And now these business owners have been told over and over again by every agency.

Well, it's this interest group, it's all the things.

They start asking questions because they've been burned.

Like what about this?

And what about that night?

My response to the malls.

Like if they ask me what our CPCs are rising too high, my

response is doesn't matter.

And they're like, our CTRs are dropping.

Like I don't.

And they're like, well, what are you talking about?

I'm like, did you make more money this month?

Did we reach your goal better?

And their answer is, well, yeah, we're doing better off.

It's like, great.

So stop worrying about these things.

That mean nothing.

And I do legitimately mean Roaz CPC, CTR, CPMs.

I like to use the term garbage metric.

They don't mean anything.

They're not actionable.

What is your desired efficiency on your target results?

Can we meet that or do better than it has.

All of those other things are market

forces.

Well, and that's really where so many businesses can get just

overwhelmed with the amount of data that Facebook can spit out and.

You can analysis, you know, paralysis type element and you can get in there

and go, well, this number moved.

Okay, cool.

Great.

We don't care like, and you're right.

If your, if your cost per lead, if your cost per lead or cost per sale is

lower than the target, doesn't matter.

Doesn't matter.

As long as you're, like you said, making money.

If all of a sudden your cost per lead went from a dollar to $17.

And that means you're no longer making money and you're barely

breaking, even then there's a problem.

And you got to figure out what, and that's where the rest of

those numbers come into play.

And you can start to sort of diagnose things and see, oh, it's because

there's an engagement issue or because there's, you know, other aspects.

Yeah, it's it's crazy.

I know we could probably spend the next five hours talking

about the crazy, went to a

brick wall about this stuff.

So I'm doing the face.

Like the hard problem is I'm really passionate about this stuff.

And I also, it used to be a radio DJ.

So like, I don't need an audience other than the microphone to just wax poetic

until like the sun comes back around.

That's awesome.

That's awesome.

Well, I've definitely enjoyed our conversation and I think, you

know, what is, what is your advice to someone who is sort of facing

these challenges of marketing?

You know, what's your advice to them right now?

Yeah, I mean, I'll give it in three big things.

Number one, juror number one objectives in any marketing effort.

And I'll be brutally honest is to make the person that hires you

look good to the person that signs their paycheck, understand what

that motivation is very high level.

What is going to make that person elevate?

Cause they're the man.

They're the gatekeeper of that relationship.

Understand that motivation and meet it and beat their expectation.

That's your only objective bottom line.

That is how you get things done.

Number two is understand very clearly what the business objective

that you're asking Facebook to accomplish is, and also understand

if it's two or three objectives, you're going to do them poorly.

You can do one or two things very well, or you can do horribly at

10 things, and that's a choice.

You can either use the tool appropriately.

Or misuse the devices in front of you and saviors and sort of victim.

Like it's a choice.

The last thing is golden rule that I have found.

If your bright idea involves adding complexity to the environment,

you're wrong, there is.

95 90 8% of solutions do not require an added level of complexity.

Now there is some where it's absolutely needed, but that is

the rare exceptions, the case.

Now, obviously there are times when you should, but those

tend to be luxury problems.

And I'm even talking about like, do you need a retargeting campaign?

I don't think you do until you're spending a lot of money or you don't have enough

money to afford prospecting because Facebook totally retargeting for you.

And we know that they do otherwise.

You wouldn't have been taught since the first day that you

need to have exclusions in place.

Those exclusions exist because it's already doing that.

Can you afford to have four campaigns all spend money and get them all out

of learning phase and deliver a result where you can then manage every single

test that was acquired for each one of those customer journeys before

the click and afterwards, and then treat all those customers differently.

Can you really legitimately manage that better for the business's bottom

line to make that person that hired you look good more than doing one thing?

Really?

Well, the honest truth is probably no.

I mean, yes, that's true.

You can chase.

But that happens in you're spending 10, 20, 30, $50,000 a day.

I I've had a million dollar a month run rate budget, and we did two things.

The most successful businesses are built around that level of simplicity.

So I would challenge you to not have some Rube Goldberg device

to try to solve your problem.

The brilliance is in binding a simpler way.

And that's where all your time should be spent.

And one little honorable mention, you don't need to spend more than 90 minutes

a day in any Facebook ad account.

That's unless you are building things and the system is crashing on

you set a timer and force yourself to be good enough to get done.

And if it requires more time, then you're too complex and

you're getting in your own way.

Hard work is the antithesis of what you should be doing.

That that'd be kind of what I would have to

say.

Yeah, that's really good.

I mean, so basically my, my big takeaways with this are, is understanding

who the heck you're marketing.

And pick one goal, do it well.

Yeah.

And, and keep it simple.

You don't need, like you said, you don't need retargeting campaigns.

Retargeting campaigns are great once your primary campaign is working or

once, but it's not, you know, doing multiple things at the same time.

And that's really where I think so many businesses get

so hung up in the aspect of.

But it has 40 tools.

And just that it has 40 tools doesn't mean you need to use

all of them at the same time.

Yeah.

And you know, with all those tools, you don't have to worry about all the things

that this shows you, all those metrics.

Like I have made Facebook ad campaigns so efficient with such a high row as

that the company almost went out of business because we lost the scope

of what we're actually trying to do.

And you can try to take credit for everybody's work or you can keep

those golden that north star in mind.

And yeah, I would run.

Way quickly from anybody trying to tell you the solution is more complication

or around audiences or around running another sale or any of these things,

because what it means is they're not invested in your longterm success.

They're invested in making you feel good about that relationship early enough,

that you're going to sign on for more and.

If somebody isn't respectful of your relationship in that way, and ultimately

disrespects your customers, then they're not a partner you should be dealing with.

And that's the way Facebook views you as well.

So you got to remember the rules of the game you're playing.

And sadly we do not get to control those rules, but we're just playing

the game along with, and you can pay me to play that game for you, but

we're still gonna have to play by

those rules.

And if you decide not to play by the rules, Facebook will let you know.

Oh yeah.

People are like, why am I

counts constantly getting banned.

I'm like quit trying to hack the system and we make way more money by

staying in business than you ever will.

Like trying to cheat it.

Short con is a terrible business model.

If you want to still be in business in a year or five or 10 or whatever.

Yeah.

Well, it's been really awesome talking with you for those who are

listening, how can people find you online?

Sure.

So my socials are all at CT.

The disruptor, you can just type in Facebook, disruptor into

Google and you will get either the disruptive group from the Facebook.

Community the legitimate, like straight up, like this is the people, the top a

hundred advertisers or you'll find me.

And I'm basically out there doing teaching on YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, whatever.

And the honest truth is everybody has their why most of the people

in the Facebook disruptor group or elite level managers or marketers or

CMOs or running agencies and stuff, my why was when I started nobody.

Ms.

Teaching these kinds of things.

And I've been to so many conventions where people poorly misquoted my

own case studies that I kind of got hurt and got a chip on my shoulder.

And I found there's a great opportunity to just be an board player, to try to help

people get better and pays my mortgage.

It puts food on my table and there's enough of a room to

try to be a decent person.

And.

Yeah, that that's, that's, that's my why.

And for anybody that's asking, the reason I don't run my own brands is

I'm unable to lack emotion and running e-commerce stores if it's my money.

So I've learned that mistake, I can be brutal with other people's money, but when

it's my dollar, I'm just terrible at it.

I get too emotionally invested.

So like I failed at those things.

I'm really good doing it for other people.

I'm terrible at doing it myself because I do not have the ability.

To be analytical and actually make decisions that I can't take

my own advice if it's my own dollar, I'll put it that way.

Yeah.

Awesome.

Well, it's been super good chatting with you and appreciate you coming on and yeah.

Thank you so much.

Thanks for listening to this episode of, in the bunker.

As always we can be found on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter

at, in the bunker podcast.

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