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Let's Spent $1,000,000 on Facebook Ads...
Episode 726th January 2024 • In The Bunker • Joshua Maddux
00:00:00 00:40:59

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Summary:

Join us in this episode of "In The Bunker," featuring digital marketing expert Charley Tichenor. With over seven years of experience, Charley has successfully navigated the challenges of the evolving digital landscape, overcoming rising costs and decreasing global consensus. He shares insights on building brands in this dynamic field and strategies for effectively planning for business scaling.

Our episode highlights:

  • Charley's background and rise to becoming a top Facebook advertiser in the U.S.
  • The challenges of adapting to constant changes in digital marketing and maintaining competitiveness on popular platforms.
  • Strategies Charley used to overcome rising costs and changes in the digital marketing world.
  • Advice for entrepreneurs facing similar challenges, focusing on market saturation, the effectiveness of different marketing channels, and the importance of strategic planning and better tracking.

Bio:

Charles "Charley" Tichenor, a top Facebook advertiser in the United States, specializes in strategic and creative problem-solving in digital marketing. He has a deep understanding of the digital landscape and its continuous evolution. Charley has a rich history of helping brands grow in the competitive digital space, leveraging his expertise to guide businesses through challenges like rising costs and evolving market dynamics.


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Transcripts

Joshua Maddux:

Awesome today.

Joshua Maddux:

We have Charlie Kitchener on on, in the bunker and Charlie was

Joshua Maddux:

really faced with a challenge of.

Joshua Maddux:

Consistent change in the digital marketing landscape and the ever-growing number

Joshua Maddux:

of businesses that are using the same platforms with online competition,

Joshua Maddux:

continuing to grow, and the ability to make a sale being harder than it's ever

Joshua Maddux:

been before he was facing this challenge on a daily basis with their clients.

Joshua Maddux:

However, despite the.

Joshua Maddux:

He's made it through and has over seven years of experience in really

Joshua Maddux:

helping businesses have that strategic and creative problem solving aspect

Joshua Maddux:

to overcome those marketing issues.

Joshua Maddux:

He's helped build brands in an ever-changing world of the digital

Joshua Maddux:

marketing space and in spite of costs, continuing to rise and

Joshua Maddux:

global consensus overall dropping.

Joshua Maddux:

There's so much to learn from this.

Joshua Maddux:

And I'm super excited to jump in and learn about how Charlie's overcame this issue.

Joshua Maddux:

Great to have you all on and spend a little time to chat with you

Charles Tichenor:

today.

Charles Tichenor:

Oh, well, thank you so much for having me, man.

Charles Tichenor:

I appreciate it.

Charles Tichenor:

It's a, it's a beautiful day here in LA.

Charles Tichenor:

I promise outside that window.

Charles Tichenor:

I can, there's not a cloud.

Charles Tichenor:

I can see outside of this window.

Charles Tichenor:

So it's a pretty good day.

Joshua Maddux:

That's awesome.

Joshua Maddux:

That's awesome.

Joshua Maddux:

Cool.

Joshua Maddux:

Yeah.

Joshua Maddux:

I'm in the LA area as well, so it's really good to chat and, you know talk about

Joshua Maddux:

the 93 degree weather outside today.

Joshua Maddux:

And when is it not though?

Joshua Maddux:

Awesome.

Joshua Maddux:

Well, let's do this.

Joshua Maddux:

Let's have you give a sort of a 92nd background.

Joshua Maddux:

Like who are you?

Joshua Maddux:

How'd you get here?

Joshua Maddux:

What does that look like?

Charles Tichenor:

Yeah.

Charles Tichenor:

So I'm Charlie, I'm one of the top a hundred Facebook

Charles Tichenor:

advertisers in the United States.

Charles Tichenor:

And a lot of the other ones are students of mine.

Charles Tichenor:

Over the last near decade, I've really, I came up starting an organic

Charles Tichenor:

and then started getting into paid.

Charles Tichenor:

And shortly in a, in a, in a small amount of time, I went from putting

Charles Tichenor:

my credit card in Facebook to promote some local projects, to managing a

Charles Tichenor:

million dollars a day for big brands on behalf of global international, you

Charles Tichenor:

know ad agencies with big CBS television Nissan, a million different things that

Charles Tichenor:

the list goes on and on and on and on.

Charles Tichenor:

And over that time of.

Charles Tichenor:

To build a career around challenging what people think you necessarily

Charles Tichenor:

should be doing and how that applies into the digital space.

Charles Tichenor:

Especially with Facebook at the time being very nuanced and

Charles Tichenor:

very early on in the system.

Charles Tichenor:

So I've been able to grow along with it.

Charles Tichenor:

And as a result of spending a lot of money and doing a lot of case studies

Charles Tichenor:

and challenging the status quo, I ended up getting known by Facebook as

Charles Tichenor:

somebody that worked very well with them.

Charles Tichenor:

And I ended up working really closely with their engineering department

Charles Tichenor:

and product team to define a lot of what things are supposed to be done.

Charles Tichenor:

And now a lot of those case studies are sort of taught by Facebook

Charles Tichenor:

to experts in agencies, be a reps is what you're supposed to do.

Charles Tichenor:

And over that time, I've spent a couple of hundred million dollars.

Charles Tichenor:

I've got hundreds of case studies.

Charles Tichenor:

I brought the dynamic product ads and lead gen ad unit to market.

Charles Tichenor:

I was in the alphas for those and a lot of other things that never made it to

Charles Tichenor:

market because they never actually worked.

Charles Tichenor:

And now I'm just really in the space of trying to help brands see success

Charles Tichenor:

and really understand like what you can do to minimize your time and

Charles Tichenor:

maximize your profit because I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding

Charles Tichenor:

around how Facebook is supposed to be.

Charles Tichenor:

And I think that comes from either people, a coming from email or Google or

Charles Tichenor:

B learning after Facebook was super easy from other people that had no idea what

Charles Tichenor:

they were doing were just in the right place at the right time of the world.

Charles Tichenor:

Really good brand.

Charles Tichenor:

And the honest truth is about 80% of the people that buy media on Facebook

Charles Tichenor:

have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the platform works and I'm here

Charles Tichenor:

to help people see success with that.

Charles Tichenor:

And that's kind of where I'm at.

Joshua Maddux:

Awesome.

Joshua Maddux:

Awesome.

Joshua Maddux:

Now I want to hone in on one thing you said you've you have in a single

Joshua Maddux:

day done a million dollar ad buy.

Joshua Maddux:

Oh yeah.

Joshua Maddux:

Now it doesn't require a million dollars to run a Facebook ad campaign.

Joshua Maddux:

Sure.

Joshua Maddux:

But the budgets can be anywhere from, you know, $2 a day to

Joshua Maddux:

millions of dollars a day.

Joshua Maddux:

And in reality, You know, the, the strategy and some

Joshua Maddux:

of that type has aspects.

Joshua Maddux:

It doesn't really change much irrelevant of you're spending $2 or $2 million.

Joshua Maddux:

Yeah.

Joshua Maddux:

I

Charles Tichenor:

mean, I will say this, it depends on where your business is, but

Charles Tichenor:

what matters way more than anything else?

Charles Tichenor:

I mean, look, it's nice to say, put some stuff down there.

Charles Tichenor:

Like, oh, I spent 10 million then.

Charles Tichenor:

That sounds fun.

Charles Tichenor:

You also rip your hair out, but it sounds fun.

Charles Tichenor:

And you know, it's, it's a nice sounding thing and, and between a bunch of brands

Charles Tichenor:

and a bunch of different platforms, and that's just on Facebook at the same

Charles Tichenor:

time as doing the same thing on Twitter and having, you know, Pinterest and

Charles Tichenor:

LinkedIn, but Facebook is our main lane.

Charles Tichenor:

The.

Charles Tichenor:

It really comes down to one of four business objectives.

Charles Tichenor:

Are you trying to get top line growth, bottom line growth market

Charles Tichenor:

share or awareness and whatever it is that you're trying to do for your

Charles Tichenor:

business, the strategy to maximize your investment should be whatever that is.

Charles Tichenor:

At the end of the day, your Facebook ad account is around business is around

Charles Tichenor:

your business development strategy.

Charles Tichenor:

And the, what you should be doing is understanding what is the unfair

Charles Tichenor:

advantage that this platform can bring.

Charles Tichenor:

To your ecosystem and then leveraging that to the nth degree.

Charles Tichenor:

And yeah, the same thing I do at 500, a days more or less what I do

Charles Tichenor:

at 50,000 a day because Facebook's business model hasn't changed in

Charles Tichenor:

years and their algorithm has had two updates since I started in 20 13,

Charles Tichenor:

20 14 at a million dollar budgets.

Charles Tichenor:

So.

Charles Tichenor:

What works is always working.

Charles Tichenor:

What doesn't work generally continues to not work.

Charles Tichenor:

And there are people that can do things wrong and they'll still succeed

Charles Tichenor:

because their business model works.

Charles Tichenor:

And there are people in the bad business, no matter what they do on Facebook,

Charles Tichenor:

all they're going to end up doing is spending a whole bunch of money,

Charles Tichenor:

telling people they have a bad business.

Charles Tichenor:

So it is fairly consistent.

Joshua Maddux:

Yeah.

Joshua Maddux:

And those are, those are the businesses that don't understand

Joshua Maddux:

their ideal, you know, their ideal customer who their target market is.

Joshua Maddux:

And.

Joshua Maddux:

If you don't understand who your target market is, your ideal client,

Joshua Maddux:

you shouldn't be advertising yet.

Joshua Maddux:

Unless you're attempting to get more data to figure out a product or something.

Joshua Maddux:

But at that point you should be seriously working with someone

Joshua Maddux:

who knows what they're doing.

Joshua Maddux:

Yeah.

Charles Tichenor:

Yeah, absolutely.

Joshua Maddux:

I want to dive in to talk about your sort of big challenge.

Joshua Maddux:

What is your biggest challenge that you've faced in, in business?

Joshua Maddux:

You know, in regard to.

Charles Tichenor:

Yeah.

Charles Tichenor:

I mean, I think the biggest challenge that we're seeing, especially, I

Charles Tichenor:

mean, in the Facebook ads world in the marketing in general, between iOS 15

Charles Tichenor:

and iOS 14, I mean every year apple releases a new operating system that

Charles Tichenor:

creates a lot of havoc for everybody.

Charles Tichenor:

iOS 14 was the end of the world end of days.

Charles Tichenor:

And so as iOS 12, and so was the implementation of that

Charles Tichenor:

Facebook pixel, because back in the day that didn't even exist.

Charles Tichenor:

We didn't even have a conversion.

Charles Tichenor:

I was spending a million dollars a day when it was just the PPC

Charles Tichenor:

platform, trying to meet with Google.

Charles Tichenor:

End of the days, every time they make an update.

Charles Tichenor:

But the problem is if you run a business that gets used to being successful by

Charles Tichenor:

you doing certain things, and then people change the rules or make it harder for

Charles Tichenor:

you to do things in a way that you figured out, then it ultimately does make it

Charles Tichenor:

more difficult to get people to buy in.

Charles Tichenor:

And I think one of the biggest struggles that I've been facing

Charles Tichenor:

a lot with, with brands is.

Charles Tichenor:

Really letting them know how to pivot their model, that didn't necessarily

Charles Tichenor:

rely on treating their partners or their vendors in the way that they should have.

Charles Tichenor:

I mean, the honest truth is people were able to several years ago, basically do

Charles Tichenor:

everything wrong and print a lot of money.

Charles Tichenor:

And the law of diminishing the returns that they've gotten from them.

Charles Tichenor:

It has been something that the global consensus of Facebook ads is that

Charles Tichenor:

it's harder and harder to make money.

Charles Tichenor:

It's wildly unstable.

Charles Tichenor:

They're just trying to take your money from you.

Charles Tichenor:

You shouldn't trust them on things.

Charles Tichenor:

And like it's just getting more and more expensive.

Charles Tichenor:

And at some point it's just going to stop working.

Charles Tichenor:

The honest truth is if you have a good business model and you know how

Charles Tichenor:

to work, the machine millionaires are getting made every single day.

Charles Tichenor:

I mean, I've had clients double their ad budget this year.

Charles Tichenor:

In spite of everything that's happening because it provides

Charles Tichenor:

a great opportunity for them because they're doing things well.

Charles Tichenor:

So I think the biggest challenge is one getting business owners to understand

Charles Tichenor:

the mental shift that they have to make.

Charles Tichenor:

And also it's being able to communicate what they're supposed to do, especially

Charles Tichenor:

when, for what it's worth the vast majority of experts out there.

Charles Tichenor:

I don't know what they're supposed to do with contextual information.

Charles Tichenor:

So there, if you're in a room and 99 out of a hundred, people say

Charles Tichenor:

you're supposed to do something.

Charles Tichenor:

And then somebody else says, well, no, everybody's complaining

Charles Tichenor:

because they're wrong.

Charles Tichenor:

Here's what you're supposed to do.

Charles Tichenor:

It becomes very alienated.

Charles Tichenor:

But you know, it, it.

Charles Tichenor:

It's validating to see that 99% of the people in the room turning tomorrow

Charles Tichenor:

60 or 70% because the other 20 or 30 are quoting things that I did two,

Charles Tichenor:

three years ago, they're catching up, but at least we're getting there.

Charles Tichenor:

But that's the big challenge is really getting people to buy in when

Charles Tichenor:

there's so much bad information.

Charles Tichenor:

And also it's very predatory space.

Charles Tichenor:

You know, there's a lot of folks that.

Charles Tichenor:

No, there's a lot of money to be made because everybody wants to make money.

Charles Tichenor:

And so there's a cash grab of like, let me just put out as much

Charles Tichenor:

bad information as I possibly can.

Charles Tichenor:

And then you some version of why people should trust me to get their cash in hand.

Charles Tichenor:

And I can't tell you how many people I know that are really,

Charles Tichenor:

really good business people.

Charles Tichenor:

They run really successful agencies that tell you how to run your ads

Charles Tichenor:

and my response to anybody that says, well, this guy tells me.

Charles Tichenor:

It's like, great.

Charles Tichenor:

They're really good at running the business.

Charles Tichenor:

If your iPhone breaks, does Tim cook have the answer on how to fix it?

Charles Tichenor:

Answer is no.

Charles Tichenor:

You would never ask the executive running a multi-billion dollar

Charles Tichenor:

company, how to handle your executional problems because that's not their job.

Charles Tichenor:

They shouldn't know that there are plenty of other things

Charles Tichenor:

that they're really good at.

Charles Tichenor:

And so getting your answer from somebody whose day job has no bearing

Charles Tichenor:

on being able to answer your question.

Charles Tichenor:

Pollutes the space.

Charles Tichenor:

And so I think one of the biggest things is just being able to cut through so much

Charles Tichenor:

of the noise, because part of being able to cut through that noise also positioned

Charles Tichenor:

you as sort of a contrarian and you know, it doesn't help that Facebook calls

Charles Tichenor:

their elite group of advertisers, the disruptor group and disruptor brands.

Charles Tichenor:

So when I come into a space I'm awfully disruptive because I'm one

Charles Tichenor:

of the lead people in that group and it can be off-putting and.

Charles Tichenor:

I think the last big piece, there is a lot of these folks that are experts in

Charles Tichenor:

their field, or very highly regarded that have been around for a long time.

Charles Tichenor:

A lot of them don't know that they don't know what they're

Charles Tichenor:

doing, which is a real big issue.

Charles Tichenor:

And I know a lot of very successful people that came up because they had a few really

Charles Tichenor:

successful clients will honestly would have succeeded with or without them.

Charles Tichenor:

And I'm Ben in that space.

Charles Tichenor:

I used to work with Activision.

Charles Tichenor:

The call of duty launch was like $15 million over a month.

Charles Tichenor:

Do you think they needed my Facebook ad account to make call of duty

Charles Tichenor:

for a successful business venture?

Charles Tichenor:

No, you don't.

Charles Tichenor:

When CBS is launching a TV show, like the new host of the late show,

Charles Tichenor:

they don't need my media dollars to make that show a success.

Charles Tichenor:

And there's a lot of agencies that came up with those great clients and

Charles Tichenor:

they were able to make things work by brute force and a lot of tests.

Charles Tichenor:

But it doesn't mean that what they were doing was bright.

Charles Tichenor:

It just means they had a client that was so good that they could do

Charles Tichenor:

everything wrong and still succeed.

Charles Tichenor:

And they've been around long enough that they have this perceived legitimacy.

Charles Tichenor:

So I think the biggest struggle is getting people to buy into something

Charles Tichenor:

that challenges what they accept.

Charles Tichenor:

And, you know, the biggest struggle there is, or the biggest pain point

Charles Tichenor:

for them is if you're going to believe these folks, then you're going to

Charles Tichenor:

also believe that you hopeless.

Charles Tichenor:

And the honest truth is they're wrong and there's a path.

Charles Tichenor:

Yeah.

Joshua Maddux:

Well, I think so much of that, your point to the

Joshua Maddux:

aspect of, you know, you can, you can go to your kitchen right now

Joshua Maddux:

and arbitrarily grab ingredients.

Joshua Maddux:

And if you do that 10,000 times.

Joshua Maddux:

And you pull up a recipe at random 10,000 times, you might have a chance

Joshua Maddux:

of grabbing the right ingredients for that random blind recipe.

Joshua Maddux:

And so you're like, oh look, I grabbed all the right items.

Joshua Maddux:

And I made this amazing thing.

Joshua Maddux:

And what sadly agencies like you're talking about, aren't saying is

Joshua Maddux:

yes, we hope these, we have these 10 case studies that are amazing.

Joshua Maddux:

But we've worked with 40,000 companies.

Joshua Maddux:

Sure.

Joshua Maddux:

And so the success rate is tiny and it's not to say that.

Joshua Maddux:

It's a hundred percent of the agency's fault because maybe the client didn't

Joshua Maddux:

understand who their customer was or they got into a space that, you know, I know

Joshua Maddux:

in the state of California, like bail bonds has changed so drastically with

Joshua Maddux:

different laws in the state of California.

Joshua Maddux:

And so you get legislation that comes in and shifts a whole entire market.

Joshua Maddux:

You get things like Facebook ads.

Joshua Maddux:

You know, now if you're going to do real estate or auto loans or anything, you have

Joshua Maddux:

to check the box and say that it is that.

Joshua Maddux:

And then that changes what you can target.

Joshua Maddux:

And so there's legislative changes that are outside of people's controls.

Joshua Maddux:

There's a lot of stuff.

Joshua Maddux:

Is within a business's control, but a lot that's outside of as well.

Joshua Maddux:

You know, things like the market and where we are just globally.

Joshua Maddux:

But so how looking at these challenges of just the Facebook platform and the

Joshua Maddux:

element of so many businesses attempting to use it as basically the way to

Joshua Maddux:

just make a million dollars overnight.

Joshua Maddux:

How do businesses overcome this of having a sex, you know, a successful campaign?

Joshua Maddux:

Yeah, I mean,

Charles Tichenor:

I think, and I've been in those agencies too, where it was like,

Charles Tichenor:

I mean, honestly, the agency model there for some color is like you get two or

Charles Tichenor:

three flagship product projects that make a bunch of money, and then you have your

Charles Tichenor:

sales team bringing a whole bunch of folks who you don't even expect to be there six

Charles Tichenor:

months from now to bring in your cash.

Charles Tichenor:

And hopefully one of them becomes something you can invest

Charles Tichenor:

in, or that you can, you can build your brand off of again.

Charles Tichenor:

And the churn rate on.

Charles Tichenor:

Raisie I mean, 90 day contracts to see whether or not you're going to

Charles Tichenor:

be able to strike oil with somebody.

Charles Tichenor:

And that's why brands are on agency seven and two years because they

Charles Tichenor:

just keep getting spit out because nobody's like, well, our turnkey

Charles Tichenor:

system doesn't work for you because we would require us to do work.

Charles Tichenor:

Outside of what we've trained everybody to do and require us to work with

Charles Tichenor:

you, to develop your business model, to make things work, or maybe you're

Charles Tichenor:

not willing to listen to them.

Charles Tichenor:

So your point to make the client could be the problem.

Charles Tichenor:

And so I've seen that over and over and over again.

Charles Tichenor:

And to, to answer deeper into your question, one of the things

Charles Tichenor:

that really comes in handy, or that we face a lot, that when I'm

Charles Tichenor:

trying to have conversations with.

Charles Tichenor:

We have to shift the mindset of Facebook is what's going to

Charles Tichenor:

make my business successful.

Charles Tichenor:

You have to think of it as your own fuel for the fire.

Charles Tichenor:

If you don't have a successful business, then it's not going to improve things.

Charles Tichenor:

It is going to amplify wherever you're at.

Charles Tichenor:

So if you're losing money right now, because your business isn't.

Charles Tichenor:

Throwing money at Facebook is only going to magnify that loss.

Charles Tichenor:

And if you have a successful business where Facebook can be

Charles Tichenor:

the thing that amplifies it, then you're in a great space.

Charles Tichenor:

So a lot of this comes down to, in my opinion, the job of a media buyer,

Charles Tichenor:

Facebook, or whatever is really to understand at a very rudimentary level,

Charles Tichenor:

your budget this month might be $10,000.

Charles Tichenor:

Why isn't it 20?

Charles Tichenor:

What is wrong with your business?

Charles Tichenor:

Or what can we fix to double this budget?

Charles Tichenor:

Now I can do the best thing.

Charles Tichenor:

I can return you an investment, but ultimately it's about me looking at the

Charles Tichenor:

data that I have and understanding that customer flow in your business model to

Charles Tichenor:

understand why you can't give me twice as much money to go acquire customers or.

Charles Tichenor:

Should we be spending it all, but like, what is it about your customers

Charles Tichenor:

and your clients and their businesses that is preventing them from being

Charles Tichenor:

able to feed this more and more?

Charles Tichenor:

Because the honest truth is if everything works, then it's just

Charles Tichenor:

a run rate of like, well, how much money do we have in the bank?

Charles Tichenor:

And that number should go up on a consistent basis.

Charles Tichenor:

If you're good at your job, that budget should not be.

Charles Tichenor:

And so a lot of this comes into working very closely with those businesses.

Charles Tichenor:

And at the end of the day, the best media buyers that I know are project

Charles Tichenor:

managers that are really good at business development because the

Charles Tichenor:

system is smarter than all of us.

Charles Tichenor:

And for lack of a better word, it's the best way to use it is to keep

Charles Tichenor:

it as simple as possible so that you can invest in all your resources and

Charles Tichenor:

understanding and improving everything that happens after the click.

Joshua Maddux:

Yeah, I want to hone in on something because you

Joshua Maddux:

said something there that is huge.

Joshua Maddux:

You're talking about.

Joshua Maddux:

Investing in marketing and it's going to magnify whatever the problem is.

Joshua Maddux:

If it's a successful business, it's going to, you know, two X, three

Joshua Maddux:

X, 10 X, whatever that business is, if the business is losing

Joshua Maddux:

cash, it's going to magnify that.

Joshua Maddux:

And I think that's so key.

Joshua Maddux:

To marketing just as a whole irrelevant of the platform, because so many businesses

Joshua Maddux:

don't understand that they have to have processes and procedures in place.

Joshua Maddux:

Because if a business is used to getting referrals,

Joshua Maddux:

referrals, aren't a ton of work.

Joshua Maddux:

If they're a service-based business or whatever, where a lead from Facebook

Joshua Maddux:

is very different than a referral from a friend of a friend or whoever.

Joshua Maddux:

The sales process for referral is done.

Joshua Maddux:

They're just looking for a price point to book a call or to book the service

Joshua Maddux:

where a cold lead there's education.

Joshua Maddux:

There's a more of a relationship building aspect.

Joshua Maddux:

And so if that business doesn't have, and I liked the point you brought up

Joshua Maddux:

with the business development, the best Facebook, you know, the best

Joshua Maddux:

media buyers are business development.

Joshua Maddux:

People.

Joshua Maddux:

Because if those processes aren't in place and they don't have a good CRM

Joshua Maddux:

system or a good lead generation to conversion flow or funnel, then doesn't

Joshua Maddux:

matter how much money you spend.

Joshua Maddux:

It's not going to work.

Charles Tichenor:

Yeah.

Charles Tichenor:

Yeah.

Charles Tichenor:

And I think that's, and I've noticed this more and more, especially as.

Charles Tichenor:

And the last couple of years, when I really started to work with agency

Charles Tichenor:

development and brand development at seven and eight figure businesses,

Charles Tichenor:

I heard the same complaints from dozens or hundreds of people.

Charles Tichenor:

And I, my DMS on Twitter are full of these folks where they're like, Hey,

Charles Tichenor:

these are the experts in the space and they don't know what's going

Charles Tichenor:

on or they're complaining a lot.

Charles Tichenor:

Or they keep telling me that this is the next solution.

Charles Tichenor:

And my response to them is like, they're the experts in the space and

Charles Tichenor:

running a business that gets you to pay them to think that they're the

Charles Tichenor:

experts that has nothing to do with them actually being good at their job.

Charles Tichenor:

And then they say, well, here's this case that this business might get a

Charles Tichenor:

business run by an extraordinarily successful business person.

Charles Tichenor:

And this is the partner they went with.

Joshua Maddux:

Well, and that's where I love the ones.

Joshua Maddux:

I get Facebook ads running a digital agency, myself.

Joshua Maddux:

I get Facebook ads from, oh, I ran a digital agency for five years and now

Joshua Maddux:

I want to train you on how to do it.

Joshua Maddux:

And I'm like, wait, so what are you doing now?

Joshua Maddux:

You, you left your digital agency job and you're not running it anymore.

Joshua Maddux:

So you're going to train me on what happened five years ago.

Joshua Maddux:

I mean, if.

Joshua Maddux:

If you took the tactics that you first started learning and the

Joshua Maddux:

advertising methodology that you first started learning the first day

Joshua Maddux:

that you did any type of advertising and tried implementing that now.

Joshua Maddux:

That's going to provide different results then what you use today.

Joshua Maddux:

And that might just be content strategy.

Joshua Maddux:

That might be colors.

Joshua Maddux:

That might be, who knows what photography, you know, I look back,

Joshua Maddux:

you go to anybody's Instagram and you scroll all the way back to the bottom

Joshua Maddux:

of their feed and everybody has.

Joshua Maddux:

That image with like the, it looks like someone cut it out on paper

Joshua Maddux:

with the little, you know, Russell, everybody's got that same filter because

Joshua Maddux:

that's what we all used back then.

Joshua Maddux:

You don't do that anymore.

Joshua Maddux:

Now it's overly saturated and processed and it's a very different look.

Joshua Maddux:

And so just that someone just posting personal stuff, we're not

Joshua Maddux:

even talking about specific ads and then you go into the ad space and

Joshua Maddux:

you look at, you know, what it adds.

Joshua Maddux:

You know, a few years ago versus today.

Joshua Maddux:

And so I think that shift of so many businesses say, oh, well,

Joshua Maddux:

this worked for this person four years ago, I'm going to try it.

Joshua Maddux:

It's trends change.

Charles Tichenor:

And so things change.

Charles Tichenor:

And I think it's really good to be on top of that change.

Charles Tichenor:

And then there's also the inverse of these things too, of like, I feel

Charles Tichenor:

like a lot of people take that to the nth degree of content is one thing.

Charles Tichenor:

And strategy is something else which I might agree with or not, but it really

Charles Tichenor:

depends on how your business is going.

Charles Tichenor:

But one of the biggest liabilities that I see out in the space is everybody's

Charles Tichenor:

saying something along the lines of.

Charles Tichenor:

And one of the things I hear all the time is like, none of my

Charles Tichenor:

lookalikes are working right now.

Charles Tichenor:

And it's like, that probably means you're using them wrong.

Charles Tichenor:

Or people saying, well, like this attribution model, doesn't

Charles Tichenor:

this, this, this optimization window doesn't work anymore.

Charles Tichenor:

You got to switch to this thing.

Charles Tichenor:

And it's like, well, that has nothing to do with it.

Charles Tichenor:

Like there are some constants that you have to keep in and there's some ways

Charles Tichenor:

of thinking about the problem solving.

Charles Tichenor:

I, I think one of the biggest.

Charles Tichenor:

Liabilities is a fundamental misunderstanding of how these platforms

Charles Tichenor:

function and what their business objectives are and how they're supposed

Charles Tichenor:

to, how they're trying to reach them.

Charles Tichenor:

I mean, as a very high level, for instance, Facebook itself and Instagram

Charles Tichenor:

and their whole entire business model is they sell attention for profits.

Charles Tichenor:

If you want to be successful and you want to mitigate high cost.

Charles Tichenor:

You have to make the attention that you buy good for Facebook's bottom line.

Charles Tichenor:

So if your ads or your content isn't appealing, you're going

Charles Tichenor:

to be sewing to less people.

Charles Tichenor:

And we see this with organic.

Charles Tichenor:

Like if your post isn't good, you get less likes and less reach.

Charles Tichenor:

Well, if your ad isn't good, you get less.

Charles Tichenor:

Now ad good for you.

Charles Tichenor:

Versus Facebook are two very different things for Facebook.

Charles Tichenor:

It's about their estimated action rate and a whole bunch of other

Charles Tichenor:

acronyms we can get down to.

Charles Tichenor:

But basically if your ad is being shown to somebody and they're are not

Charles Tichenor:

likely to respond positively, or it causes them to leave, then you're a

Charles Tichenor:

liability to Facebook's business model.

Charles Tichenor:

When we're getting into that.

Charles Tichenor:

One of the biggest issues that we see around, for instance, audience

Charles Tichenor:

targeting or all this other stuff is if you're trying to take an ad

Charles Tichenor:

and find who can you force this content to so that it might work.

Charles Tichenor:

You're immediately disrespecting the end user and your business partner,

Charles Tichenor:

because there's a real person on the other end of that dollar.

Charles Tichenor:

And there's an entire platform.

Charles Tichenor:

And there's a reason why the same people that complain about which audience

Charles Tichenor:

is working in which attribution model or optimization window was working,

Charles Tichenor:

are also complaining about their CPMs, because Facebook is saying.

Charles Tichenor:

You're not a good, you're not a good faith partner to us.

Charles Tichenor:

We know you're out here, but you're a liability to our business success.

Charles Tichenor:

So we're going to charge you more money to exist.

Charles Tichenor:

And then also if your delivery times on accurate or people complain

Charles Tichenor:

about your product or your customer services, Then you're also a liability

Charles Tichenor:

because phase people are getting upset that they saw that Facebook

Charles Tichenor:

ad and they're getting angry.

Charles Tichenor:

So because your business isn't run with respect to the customer,

Charles Tichenor:

Facebook is also going to ping you your page scores, what they call it.

Charles Tichenor:

If your page score is below a two, you can't even run business.

Charles Tichenor:

Now that doesn't necessarily mean anything to anybody, but you pay the score.

Charles Tichenor:

If it's above, if you increase your page score from like a two and

Charles Tichenor:

a half to like a four and a half your costs for advertising, same

Charles Tichenor:

exact ad, same exact audience, same exact everything might drop by 50%.

Charles Tichenor:

Because Facebook has deemed, oh, now you're a good player.

Charles Tichenor:

Now you are taking care of our, our business model.

Charles Tichenor:

And so when people try to solve their problems, they're always trying to

Charles Tichenor:

figure out like, how do we get the sale?

Charles Tichenor:

What do we do this?

Charles Tichenor:

What's the audience for all of these things.

Charles Tichenor:

And then forget.

Charles Tichenor:

It's all about matching the content with the end user that the person wants to see.

Charles Tichenor:

And maybe the reason that that ad that doesn't meet your business objectives is

Charles Tichenor:

getting all of the spend is because it's the ad that people want to see the most.

Charles Tichenor:

And your job is to really manage that balance.

Charles Tichenor:

And if you think about it in those simple terms, if every decision is how do I

Charles Tichenor:

make the end user's experience better?

Charles Tichenor:

Well also magnifying my needs as a business for the one thing I'm asking

Charles Tichenor:

Facebook to do in a way that also lets the platform, make all of the informed

Charles Tichenor:

decisions it possibly can to give me the most consistent results, then you

Charles Tichenor:

aren't going to be solving the problem in a way that the vast majority of.

Charles Tichenor:

Experts and gurus and agencies, whatever won't present to you

Charles Tichenor:

because it also undermines their validity as an advertiser.

Charles Tichenor:

If, if the answer to your successes, creative tested broad and work on your

Charles Tichenor:

business model, the person who is most threatened by that is the company that

Charles Tichenor:

relies on these massive spreadsheets and great PowerPoint decks in a

Charles Tichenor:

percentage of your ad spend to run.

Charles Tichenor:

Because it's a insecurity that they have of like, I can't provide value if I can't

Charles Tichenor:

press a bunch of buttons and show you a bunch of information and the honest truth.

Charles Tichenor:

You know, who doesn't care about that information is the person that

Charles Tichenor:

owns the company that hired you.

Charles Tichenor:

They don't care when you get on a client call as an agency.

Charles Tichenor:

The number one goal of that call is to get off the phone as fast as possible.

Charles Tichenor:

Make the person that hired you look good to their boss and make the results

Charles Tichenor:

this month, better than last month.

Charles Tichenor:

If there is anything that gets in the way of that, then it

Charles Tichenor:

is a liability to your time.

Charles Tichenor:

And it is bad for business for you to dive in.

Charles Tichenor:

But I feel like that is something where somebody that isn't competent

Charles Tichenor:

delivering that result needs to lean on other things to feel important.

Charles Tichenor:

And now these business owners have been told over and over again by every agency.

Charles Tichenor:

Well, it's this interest group, it's all the things.

Charles Tichenor:

They start asking questions because they've been burned.

Charles Tichenor:

Like what about this?

Charles Tichenor:

And what about that night?

Charles Tichenor:

My response to the malls.

Charles Tichenor:

Like if they ask me what our CPCs are rising too high, my

Charles Tichenor:

response is doesn't matter.

Charles Tichenor:

And they're like, our CTRs are dropping.

Charles Tichenor:

Like I don't.

Charles Tichenor:

And they're like, well, what are you talking about?

Charles Tichenor:

I'm like, did you make more money this month?

Charles Tichenor:

Did we reach your goal better?

Charles Tichenor:

And their answer is, well, yeah, we're doing better off.

Charles Tichenor:

It's like, great.

Charles Tichenor:

So stop worrying about these things.

Charles Tichenor:

That mean nothing.

Charles Tichenor:

And I do legitimately mean Roaz CPC, CTR, CPMs.

Charles Tichenor:

I like to use the term garbage metric.

Charles Tichenor:

They don't mean anything.

Charles Tichenor:

They're not actionable.

Charles Tichenor:

What is your desired efficiency on your target results?

Charles Tichenor:

Can we meet that or do better than it has.

Charles Tichenor:

All of those other things are market

Joshua Maddux:

forces.

Joshua Maddux:

Well, and that's really where so many businesses can get just

Joshua Maddux:

overwhelmed with the amount of data that Facebook can spit out and.

Joshua Maddux:

You can analysis, you know, paralysis type element and you can get in there

Joshua Maddux:

and go, well, this number moved.

Joshua Maddux:

Okay, cool.

Joshua Maddux:

Great.

Joshua Maddux:

We don't care like, and you're right.

Joshua Maddux:

If your, if your cost per lead, if your cost per lead or cost per sale is

Joshua Maddux:

lower than the target, doesn't matter.

Joshua Maddux:

Doesn't matter.

Joshua Maddux:

As long as you're, like you said, making money.

Joshua Maddux:

If all of a sudden your cost per lead went from a dollar to $17.

Joshua Maddux:

And that means you're no longer making money and you're barely

Joshua Maddux:

breaking, even then there's a problem.

Joshua Maddux:

And you got to figure out what, and that's where the rest of

Joshua Maddux:

those numbers come into play.

Joshua Maddux:

And you can start to sort of diagnose things and see, oh, it's because

Joshua Maddux:

there's an engagement issue or because there's, you know, other aspects.

Joshua Maddux:

Yeah, it's it's crazy.

Joshua Maddux:

I know we could probably spend the next five hours talking

Joshua Maddux:

about the crazy, went to a

Charles Tichenor:

brick wall about this stuff.

Charles Tichenor:

So I'm doing the face.

Charles Tichenor:

Like the hard problem is I'm really passionate about this stuff.

Charles Tichenor:

And I also, it used to be a radio DJ.

Charles Tichenor:

So like, I don't need an audience other than the microphone to just wax poetic

Charles Tichenor:

until like the sun comes back around.

Joshua Maddux:

That's awesome.

Joshua Maddux:

That's awesome.

Joshua Maddux:

Well, I've definitely enjoyed our conversation and I think, you

Joshua Maddux:

know, what is, what is your advice to someone who is sort of facing

Joshua Maddux:

these challenges of marketing?

Joshua Maddux:

You know, what's your advice to them right now?

Charles Tichenor:

Yeah, I mean, I'll give it in three big things.

Charles Tichenor:

Number one, juror number one objectives in any marketing effort.

Charles Tichenor:

And I'll be brutally honest is to make the person that hires you

Charles Tichenor:

look good to the person that signs their paycheck, understand what

Charles Tichenor:

that motivation is very high level.

Charles Tichenor:

What is going to make that person elevate?

Charles Tichenor:

Cause they're the man.

Charles Tichenor:

They're the gatekeeper of that relationship.

Charles Tichenor:

Understand that motivation and meet it and beat their expectation.

Charles Tichenor:

That's your only objective bottom line.

Charles Tichenor:

That is how you get things done.

Charles Tichenor:

Number two is understand very clearly what the business objective

Charles Tichenor:

that you're asking Facebook to accomplish is, and also understand

Charles Tichenor:

if it's two or three objectives, you're going to do them poorly.

Charles Tichenor:

You can do one or two things very well, or you can do horribly at

Charles Tichenor:

10 things, and that's a choice.

Charles Tichenor:

You can either use the tool appropriately.

Charles Tichenor:

Or misuse the devices in front of you and saviors and sort of victim.

Charles Tichenor:

Like it's a choice.

Charles Tichenor:

The last thing is golden rule that I have found.

Charles Tichenor:

If your bright idea involves adding complexity to the environment,

Charles Tichenor:

you're wrong, there is.

Charles Tichenor:

95 90 8% of solutions do not require an added level of complexity.

Charles Tichenor:

Now there is some where it's absolutely needed, but that is

Charles Tichenor:

the rare exceptions, the case.

Charles Tichenor:

Now, obviously there are times when you should, but those

Charles Tichenor:

tend to be luxury problems.

Charles Tichenor:

And I'm even talking about like, do you need a retargeting campaign?

Charles Tichenor:

I don't think you do until you're spending a lot of money or you don't have enough

Charles Tichenor:

money to afford prospecting because Facebook totally retargeting for you.

Charles Tichenor:

And we know that they do otherwise.

Charles Tichenor:

You wouldn't have been taught since the first day that you

Charles Tichenor:

need to have exclusions in place.

Charles Tichenor:

Those exclusions exist because it's already doing that.

Charles Tichenor:

Can you afford to have four campaigns all spend money and get them all out

Charles Tichenor:

of learning phase and deliver a result where you can then manage every single

Charles Tichenor:

test that was acquired for each one of those customer journeys before

Charles Tichenor:

the click and afterwards, and then treat all those customers differently.

Charles Tichenor:

Can you really legitimately manage that better for the business's bottom

Charles Tichenor:

line to make that person that hired you look good more than doing one thing?

Charles Tichenor:

Really?

Charles Tichenor:

Well, the honest truth is probably no.

Charles Tichenor:

I mean, yes, that's true.

Charles Tichenor:

You can chase.

Charles Tichenor:

But that happens in you're spending 10, 20, 30, $50,000 a day.

Charles Tichenor:

I I've had a million dollar a month run rate budget, and we did two things.

Charles Tichenor:

The most successful businesses are built around that level of simplicity.

Charles Tichenor:

So I would challenge you to not have some Rube Goldberg device

Charles Tichenor:

to try to solve your problem.

Charles Tichenor:

The brilliance is in binding a simpler way.

Charles Tichenor:

And that's where all your time should be spent.

Charles Tichenor:

And one little honorable mention, you don't need to spend more than 90 minutes

Charles Tichenor:

a day in any Facebook ad account.

Charles Tichenor:

That's unless you are building things and the system is crashing on

Charles Tichenor:

you set a timer and force yourself to be good enough to get done.

Charles Tichenor:

And if it requires more time, then you're too complex and

Charles Tichenor:

you're getting in your own way.

Charles Tichenor:

Hard work is the antithesis of what you should be doing.

Charles Tichenor:

That that'd be kind of what I would have to

Joshua Maddux:

say.

Joshua Maddux:

Yeah, that's really good.

Joshua Maddux:

I mean, so basically my, my big takeaways with this are, is understanding

Joshua Maddux:

who the heck you're marketing.

Joshua Maddux:

And pick one goal, do it well.

Joshua Maddux:

Yeah.

Joshua Maddux:

And, and keep it simple.

Joshua Maddux:

You don't need, like you said, you don't need retargeting campaigns.

Joshua Maddux:

Retargeting campaigns are great once your primary campaign is working or

Joshua Maddux:

once, but it's not, you know, doing multiple things at the same time.

Joshua Maddux:

And that's really where I think so many businesses get

Joshua Maddux:

so hung up in the aspect of.

Joshua Maddux:

But it has 40 tools.

Joshua Maddux:

And just that it has 40 tools doesn't mean you need to use

Joshua Maddux:

all of them at the same time.

Charles Tichenor:

Yeah.

Charles Tichenor:

And you know, with all those tools, you don't have to worry about all the things

Charles Tichenor:

that this shows you, all those metrics.

Charles Tichenor:

Like I have made Facebook ad campaigns so efficient with such a high row as

Charles Tichenor:

that the company almost went out of business because we lost the scope

Charles Tichenor:

of what we're actually trying to do.

Charles Tichenor:

And you can try to take credit for everybody's work or you can keep

Charles Tichenor:

those golden that north star in mind.

Charles Tichenor:

And yeah, I would run.

Charles Tichenor:

Way quickly from anybody trying to tell you the solution is more complication

Charles Tichenor:

or around audiences or around running another sale or any of these things,

Charles Tichenor:

because what it means is they're not invested in your longterm success.

Charles Tichenor:

They're invested in making you feel good about that relationship early enough,

Charles Tichenor:

that you're going to sign on for more and.

Charles Tichenor:

If somebody isn't respectful of your relationship in that way, and ultimately

Charles Tichenor:

disrespects your customers, then they're not a partner you should be dealing with.

Charles Tichenor:

And that's the way Facebook views you as well.

Charles Tichenor:

So you got to remember the rules of the game you're playing.

Charles Tichenor:

And sadly we do not get to control those rules, but we're just playing

Charles Tichenor:

the game along with, and you can pay me to play that game for you, but

Charles Tichenor:

we're still gonna have to play by

Joshua Maddux:

those rules.

Joshua Maddux:

And if you decide not to play by the rules, Facebook will let you know.

Joshua Maddux:

Oh yeah.

Joshua Maddux:

People are like, why am I

Charles Tichenor:

counts constantly getting banned.

Charles Tichenor:

I'm like quit trying to hack the system and we make way more money by

Charles Tichenor:

staying in business than you ever will.

Charles Tichenor:

Like trying to cheat it.

Charles Tichenor:

Short con is a terrible business model.

Charles Tichenor:

If you want to still be in business in a year or five or 10 or whatever.

Charles Tichenor:

Yeah.

Joshua Maddux:

Well, it's been really awesome talking with you for those who are

Joshua Maddux:

listening, how can people find you online?

Charles Tichenor:

Sure.

Charles Tichenor:

So my socials are all at CT.

Charles Tichenor:

The disruptor, you can just type in Facebook, disruptor into

Charles Tichenor:

Google and you will get either the disruptive group from the Facebook.

Charles Tichenor:

Community the legitimate, like straight up, like this is the people, the top a

Charles Tichenor:

hundred advertisers or you'll find me.

Charles Tichenor:

And I'm basically out there doing teaching on YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, whatever.

Charles Tichenor:

And the honest truth is everybody has their why most of the people

Charles Tichenor:

in the Facebook disruptor group or elite level managers or marketers or

Charles Tichenor:

CMOs or running agencies and stuff, my why was when I started nobody.

Charles Tichenor:

Ms.

Charles Tichenor:

Teaching these kinds of things.

Charles Tichenor:

And I've been to so many conventions where people poorly misquoted my

Charles Tichenor:

own case studies that I kind of got hurt and got a chip on my shoulder.

Charles Tichenor:

And I found there's a great opportunity to just be an board player, to try to help

Charles Tichenor:

people get better and pays my mortgage.

Charles Tichenor:

It puts food on my table and there's enough of a room to

Charles Tichenor:

try to be a decent person.

Charles Tichenor:

And.

Charles Tichenor:

Yeah, that that's, that's, that's my why.

Charles Tichenor:

And for anybody that's asking, the reason I don't run my own brands is

Charles Tichenor:

I'm unable to lack emotion and running e-commerce stores if it's my money.

Charles Tichenor:

So I've learned that mistake, I can be brutal with other people's money, but when

Charles Tichenor:

it's my dollar, I'm just terrible at it.

Charles Tichenor:

I get too emotionally invested.

Charles Tichenor:

So like I failed at those things.

Charles Tichenor:

I'm really good doing it for other people.

Charles Tichenor:

I'm terrible at doing it myself because I do not have the ability.

Charles Tichenor:

To be analytical and actually make decisions that I can't take

Charles Tichenor:

my own advice if it's my own dollar, I'll put it that way.

Joshua Maddux:

Yeah.

Joshua Maddux:

Awesome.

Joshua Maddux:

Well, it's been super good chatting with you and appreciate you coming on and yeah.

Joshua Maddux:

Thank you so much.

Joshua Maddux:

Thanks for listening to this episode of, in the bunker.

Joshua Maddux:

As always we can be found on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter

Joshua Maddux:

at, in the bunker podcast.

Joshua Maddux:

Be sure to share this episode and what you're going to apply from it.

Joshua Maddux:

And how that can affect your business, make sure to tag us in that post so

Joshua Maddux:

we can highlight your journey as well.

Joshua Maddux:

But before you go.

Joshua Maddux:

I have a quick personal ask.

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