What is it about men and bariatric surgery that makes it such a difficult conversation to have? How can we break the silence and create a space for men to feel comfortable sharing their journeys?

In this episode, Jason Smith leads the first Men's Roundtable discussion with guests Kevin Goethe and Corby Jackson. Together, they explore men's unique challenges on their bariatric journeys, the emotional and psychological hurdles, and why it’s hard for men to open up about their experiences. Kevin, a bariatric patient and entrepreneur, and Corby, a licensed mental health therapist who’s walked the weight loss path himself, share personal stories, insights, and strategies to help other men overcome the stigma surrounding bariatric surgery. Tune in to hear a candid, vulnerable conversation that empowers men to take control of their health and embrace their journey without shame.

IN THIS EPISODE:

• [1:29] Introduce guests and their histories, and today we discuss men and bariatric surgery
• [5:18] The men share their stories and find comparisons with Jason in their behavior
• [16:05] Discussion of past eating experiences and being able to control the food 
• [28:01] Getting men to talk about men's health and share is difficult because they are self-reliant
• [36:47] The discussion gets honest and vulnerable
• [43:45] Discussion of therapy and playing the victim
• [51:40] Discussion of what they would like to see in the bariatric community next year

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

• Many men delay making health decisions, including bariatric surgery, due to ingrained beliefs about self-reliance, hard work, and proving they can do it on their own. This internalized pressure often leads to resistance, even when faced with medical advice or clear health challenges.
• Food is a coping mechanism for energy, comfort, or routine. Recognizing and addressing the deep emotional connections to eating is crucial to the bariatric journey. It requires a shift in mindset and habits beyond the physical changes from surgery.
• Men often avoid seeking help due to societal pressures of self-reliance, but they recognize the value of shared experiences in weight loss journeys, especially post-surgery. By encouraging open conversations, setting boundaries, and embracing unique paths, they create a supportive space to challenge old patterns and grow together.

RESOURCES:

• BariNation Website 
• Join the BariNation Membership community meetups to support you on your journey with obesity treatment. https://barination.com/pages/join-our-community
• Want to see bonus content? Head over to Patreon to get more and support the podcast for as low as $5 per month! https://www.patreon.com/BariNationPodcast

GUEST RESOURCES:

Fadeaway Ryan - Website

Big Kevin - Website

BIOGRAPHY: 

Corby Jackson is a licensed mental health therapist, advocate, and motivational speaker who inspires others through his weight-loss journey. With a background in addictions and bariatric mental health, Corby creates supportive communities that foster acceptance, healing, and personal growth.  His bariatric journey has led him to losing over 400 lbs and gaining much more in perspective.

Kevin Goethe, Bariatric Patient

Kevin Goethe is a passionate creator, entrepreneur, and bariatric patient dedicated to living a healthier, more fulfilling life. From launching businesses to crafting engaging content, he thrives on turning ideas into reality. His VSG Journey: In March 2023, I underwent vertical sleeve gastrectomy (VSG), a life-changing decision that helped me lose 205 lbs. 

Jason Smith: [00:00:00] Hi, welcome to BariNation, where we support the bariatric community with humor, humility, and honesty.

Natalie Tierney: Our goal is you leave us today feeling hopeful, inspired, and ready to live your best bariatric life.

So today I've got two amazing guests with me. I've got, uh, Corby Jackson and I've also have, uh, my boy, Kevin goes big cab, the boss. So, uh, just wanted to take a minute, let you guys introduce yourselves and we'll get [00:01:00] started. So, uh, Ryan, you go ahead or Corby. Sorry.

Corby Jackson: So yeah, uh, I'm Corby Ryan Jackson. I usually just tell people Ryan, because they get Corby messed up.

Kevin Goethe: Uh, my name's Kevin, uh, better known as VKL or to some people, VSG Titan.

So, uh, I believe that's where I fit into this realm of space. So,

Had that revision to a SADI on December 20th, December 12th of 23rd, 23. And, uh, just kind of been rocking and rolling ever since. And, uh, the mission of Berry Nation and of this, this, this section of the podcast is just to kind of [00:02:45] help educate, do the best we can to spread the word. Uh, you know, there's a lot of support out there for the females in the community, which is amazing.

What brought us to the decision to actually have the surgery? Like, cause men can be stubborn. I know for speaking for myself, I can't be like it. It was hard. Like I probably put this thing off for about five years before I actually decided I had the surgery to have the [00:03:30] surgery because I've told myself the same things I can do it on my own.

You've got to put the hard work in. Nothing comes for free. No such thing as a free lunch. All the things that we hear growing up. So You know, it really was hard for me to make the [00:04:00] decision to actually have the surgery. And I know that I've talked to both of you guys about it. It's kind of the same situation.

So for me,

I was like, oh, okay, cool. Let me see that. And then because I was I noticed how exhausted I was. Like I was, I'll be, I'll be standing up sleeping. I'll [00:05:00] be like, I'll be like eating food for no reason, but just because I thought it was energy. There are so many different narratives of different conversations of what food was and the relationship to how I felt.

There are so many ways I use food to feed a feeling. And I end up seeing this doctor and he was like, yeah, um, [00:05:45] You can benefit from using one of these weight loss drugs. It just came out and that time it was sex into and I remember taking sex in and I was like, okay, I feel the weight loss. You know, I knew I couldn't eat certain foods [00:06:00] because of the negative reaction to it.

Like, I was like, I'm so comfortable [00:06:30] on hearing what people will tell me, and like And I respond. Yeah, I know that. I know that. I know that. But if I know, why don't I act on what I know? And I think it's my bullheadedness and my ego at the time. Realistically, I know it was my bullheadedness, my [00:06:45] ego, because I wanted to do it my way.

Jason Smith: used to go round and round about that. She'd be like, well, you know, and my thing to me was, is I had the same situation, like people would say the same shit to me and I.

Not what I'm supposed [00:07:30] to do because I can do what I want to do. Like I've worked hard, I've done the things and I'm just going to do this. And you're not going to tell me, like my wife has a video of me somewhere. Like I went to the, to the store and bought one of those, um, was it a [00:07:45] six pack of the like crystals or white castle burgers and like in the freezer section?

And I was like, nah, and I'm shoving them in my mouth so that he, so that nobody else can have them so that they're mine, [00:08:15] like all mine. And she's like, you're ridiculous right now because you won't share, like you're not even sharing food with your own child. You're just shoving them in your face so that nobody else can have them.

Not necessarily [00:08:45] what, you know, what it looked like or any of that stuff at the time, but it's the behavior of it all. Like, why would I deny anybody? Like, I don't, there's no realm of existence where I need to eat six cheeseburgers at one time and can't [00:09:00] share with anyone. And I, and I was just like, I stood 10 toes down.

And I'm still just like, like the, the plate is on my belly and I'm just raw, like shoving these in my face. [00:09:30] So it's crazy to me to think how far. I say how far I've come because I don't do that anymore, but I still will snap back from time to time when my wife's like, do you want to share this meal? And I'm like, no, [00:09:45] but for like, for what, like at the end of the day, she's always right.

Kevin Goethe: I definitely agree with that, you know, and we do that a lot too, uh, without even thinking because we don't, we don't think that, okay, we've had the [00:10:15] surgery when we're out eating. It's just like, okay, ooh, this looks good. Oh, yeah, and then we automatically go back to the old way of thinking. We're not thinking of the new us, that new version that we become.

So I would easily clear the 12 piece wing and the full Philly sub, a [00:11:00] full 40 ounce drink and then I'm good, I'm being care of the boss. Like, if I ain't finishing my food, something wrong, you know, but I mean, I would clear it out. No problem. And then I will go to the gas station and get me a couple of cookies and eat that.

You know, I was at work and I fell to the ground. I'm thinking I'm [00:11:45] having a heart attack. No, it's just gas pain. I'm like, really, really care. Yeah, I think I got all my customers scared in the store and like somebody call 9 1 1. I'm like, no, no, we ain't got to do all that. But yeah, I mean, it definitely resonates [00:12:00] the food and, you know, being a man as not wanting to get that help, as you say, or not going to say, I'm going to ask for help.

Jason Smith: Mm

Jason Smith: crazy thing about that when you think about it, like, that was part of my identity as a big man.

I never did. I never ate at all. Never. I ate I ordered like a what was it a double One pound burger. So it's basically essentially two pounds of burger with buns the size of [00:13:15] you know freaking car hub caps And I'm like, no, I'm gonna eat that shit. She's like, you're not gonna eat that. And I got about halfway through it and she was like, Oh, what's wrong?

But in my mind, I'm like, dude, if I'm big enough, I should be able to at least reap the benefit and eat all this stuff. [00:13:45] And I tried like all the time. Like I tried no matter what, no matter how many times I had evidence that I wasn't going to be able to do it in my mind. I was like, no, that's it right there.

We went [00:14:15] and watched. The Eagles game and we went to a wing spot and I was like, Oh, and she was like, you can get 10, 15, 20, you can get 40. And I was like, Ooh, but I shot, I was shocked. Cause I started to say 15 and I was like, no, just let me do 10. [00:14:30] They brought me 11, which I thought was a cool little bonus, but I only ate four, like I ate four and was done.

So everywhere we went, I was trying to eat the most, like, you know, trying to [00:15:00] like a shocking amount. Like other people would be like, you can't eat all that. And I'm like, Oh, watch me, like watch me try.

Or was there, was there a concept of like, um, we're going to Taco Bell because this is the only way I can pay to buy you gifts or happiness. Like, for me, [00:15:30] my family, we use food as a source of happiness, right? Like, my dad, every Friday, he's like, Hey, every Friday I'm gonna take you to this place called New China Buffet.

I was around but this right here We're gonna be happy in this space. We're gonna we're gonna be happy We're gonna love on each other because we can come and either eat a good meal But like the argument you just heard two hours ago, don't worry about it [00:16:15] like go ahead eat these chicken like that's kind of The narrative that like I grew up on is like food is going to be happiness Regardless of your depressed, sad, whatever, right?[00:16:30]

And that kind of was identified even from just like a damn Tyler Perry

Like that's now it's funny. So when I was growing up, we rarely. Like my mom cooked. My mom cooked everything. We never had food scarcity. I was fortunate. Like, I never had to deal with any of that stuff. I [00:17:00] was, everything was in abundance. I could eat whatever, you know, whatever she cooked. I, you know, she really didn't, she tailored meals around stuff that we'd like.

It just wasn't ever a thing. And when we did eat out, it was, it was rare and we [00:17:30] didn't really do celebratory food growing up. I just had my ability to eat. And I think that that may, because I, my weight struggles didn't really start until I was. I had health issues in 2007, [00:17:45] so I was, I had gained 130 pounds in like seven months and I didn't know what was going on.

And eventually what they came to the conclusion of after they carted my ass by ambulance, which is, that's always fun to [00:18:15] get put on the stretcher in front of your coworkers and drug out by the ambulance. Was my blood pressure spiked and my blood sugar dropped and those together in one setting, you know, present as a heart attack.

So, my, it turns out my body was in such disarray, I was pounding ibuprofen and Excedrin migraine. [00:19:00] By the handfuls and just until the paint, because the doctor be like, well, how, how much do you drink in a day? And I'm like, what do you mean? He was like, alcohol. I said, I've never drank in my life. That's never dropped.

Yeah, I [00:19:30] mean, you could say like, yeah, we hang out and he was just like, uh, you need to stop all that. Like now. So like my, all my, you know, my labs came back just terrible. And so that's when I, you know, and, but even still from that point [00:19:45] on, I, I never, like, I couldn't get control of the weight until the fact that I hit my high point all the way in probably 2018 and rode through it, or 2017 probably, and rode rode it all the way through 2020 when I had [00:20:00] surgery.

Yeah.

That's crazy. What about you? Did you have, was food celebratory for you?

My parents would say you're eating a lot. You need to slow down. It's going to catch up to you when you get older. It's going to catch up when you get older. It's going to, you know, it was the same thing in my head and they, my parents, great parents, you know what I'm saying? It's just like, [00:20:45] Look, you need to stop.

I stopped lifting weights because I wasn't playing sports in college. [00:21:15] I started working. I started putting on them pounds. You know, I can still move a little bit. I couldn't dunk anymore, you know, but it was just Having access to food whenever I wanted it was like, [00:21:30] oh, this is gravy, you know And then we had the cafe at the college like i'm loading up on food like I ain't got a lot of money So my mind goes I'm loading up on food.

Now I'm buying. What is it? Well, we had the double bacon cheeseburger from Wendy's like 1. [00:22:15] 99 small fry for 1 and a drink 8. I'm good. That's a college kid dream. You know, eating that every day. 3, 3 a. m. In the morning. It's not good. You know, so, .

Jason Smith: It

So being on my own, having access to adult money, , you know, being able to Yeah, buy what I want. Yeah. I did what I wanted, I ate what I wanted, you know, so [00:22:45] I put on a lot of weight in college, man. So I, I just, it's crazy when I go back and think about it. When I graduated high school, I was two 60 the same way AM 2 65 [00:23:00] to put on 200 pounds.

Yeah, it's different.

Corby Jackson: And again, I think it's another piece of that adult money, right?

You knew what you were getting, so you didn't really [00:24:15] change it up. You didn't really switch up because it was a consistent male, right? I think one of the things in male stubbornness is the aspect of we thrive off consistency because we don't like change. Yeah. [00:24:30] Like for me, I know for, for the aspect of I'll consistently eat something, uh, multiple days in a row, if there's change that's occurring in my life, not, not necessarily changing what I'm going to eat but my life.

So now everything in my life is changing and I'm more panics. [00:25:15] I'm going to have to go back and eat more of what's consistent. Like it's just, it's us. Terrible cycle deck.

That's there's, I wasn't going to be somebody in the drive through working the window. And they're always going to be happy to take your money. And they're always going to have a smile on their face. And that bag is going to be warm and the food's going to be what you remember it being like, it's going to be good.

Tell me, tell me different now. And that's, I mean, that's how it works. Like, and it's, it's crazy to go back and think about, like, when we start putting these pieces together, it, you know, that's really what we come [00:26:15] back to and think like, oh shit, like that really is what that, like what it was. But it's, you know, we don't, as men, we really don't, we aren't trained to think about it or talk about it.

Like, as soon as we get off the table [00:26:45] We're done. Like we had nothing else to do. Like we're gold. But then you start realizing, you start realizing a couple of days into it. You're like, Oh shit. Like, this is different. Like this, it's not what I thought it was going to be.[00:27:00]

Jason Smith: Yeah.

So it's one of those things. If we can just peep what's going on and figure out what it is and then go that route, [00:27:45] we think we're good.

Corby Jackson: All right. Like, for instance, I know, I know there's so many men who probably said, I'm gonna get the weight loss surgery because I saw this guy lose over 300 pounds doing it, right?

And the, and the only other thing that you changed was the fact of what you believe someone else did you could do too. So that creates a continuous [00:28:30] cycle of letdowns. Cause now it's like, why am I not losing enough weight? Why is this not happening fast enough? Why is and now you're frustrated and then again, what frustration brings in, I'll, I'll eat what I used to do because I, I know that made me [00:28:45] feel better than what my results are because I don't see a result.

I don't see a result, so I might as well eat what I know. Yeah, and I think

Let me put some boundaries in place for myself. [00:29:15] Cause I think if we put boundaries in so far place before ourself in place, then it'll be a lot better down the road. And like you said, some, somebody may see your 300 pound, 400 pound weight loss, and that's going to give [00:29:30] them the courage to step in and do it.

This is, you know, how I got here, the good, the bad and the ugly, you know, and if we can't do that, then I don't think [00:30:00] we're going to continue to grow. So I like the growth, like Jason said, in the last six months, it's been so much growth. And just being able to do this. I thank Jason for even let me come on here.

Jason Smith: yeah, I think, uh, you know, much like you said, it, uh, it it's been good, uh, to see probably, yeah, like I said, probably the last six, seven months, [00:30:30] it really has been an explosion of. Men feeling safe enough to talk about their journey and their vulnerability.

Like people started developing and talking about stuff that they didn't talk about ever. Like, and they would talk about it [00:31:00] ahead of time and be like, listen. I don't share this with people. I don't talk like this on here. Like the vulnerability aspect of it was so major because I think you know No, no man likes to talk about the the issues that they [00:31:15] have the troubles that they've seen the the things Because we don't feel like anybody wants to hear it Like we did they they just want us to keep our head down keep it moving if we're not producing if we're not providing If we're not protecting Well, you know, then we need to go do one of those three things because we're not, [00:31:30] we're not busy enough if we're not doing one of those three things.

Let me go find the help that I need. Let me go seek, you know, assistance with what I'm doing. That's why I was so good to see, like, we started that men's group chat on Instagram and it's blown [00:32:15] up. Like people are in there every single day back and forth. And it's not always just the same people. Like a lot of times with guys, you'll start a group and like first few days, like a bunch of everybody will chime in and then you just see it kind of taper off.

And I've seen changes in a lot of people. Coming and asking for help and doing things that I know we wouldn't have done before. Mm hmm. You're [00:33:00] right. You're right about that.

Uh, not that aspect of, we're just gonna leave this in the chat and everyone ignore it. No one's ignoring people. How many times have you ever felt ignored in the space with other men when you vocalize [00:33:30] something and they were like, man, dog, I can't help you. That's, that's, that's tragic. Like, like, okay, cool.

It sucks because

Like everybody has experienced a lot of the stuff that we have, you know, it may be in a different way. [00:34:15] It may present itself different, but it's not going to be like very, very rarely is it that we experienced some shit that's just a complete one off. And so for people to feel like they can't. Reach out and say something or [00:34:30] even be like, man, I get it.

And you know, as men appear, we'll be the first one to tell you. We mature slow, but we got to grow up fast, [00:35:00] but growing up fast doesn't mean you mature at all. Like when you, when it comes to mental and emotional maturity, like it takes a long time for us to figure that shit out. Like, I'm glad I'm at a point where I'm at now where I can openly talk to my brothers and tell them that I, you know, I'll tell you guys all the time.

Definitely, [00:35:45] definitely. And

I'm crying, bro. I'm just crying and they're like, what's up? [00:36:15] I like man I just realized that I have a mental health issue that I need to get taken care of just from hearing everybody talk And telling their experience nobody's knowing what's going on That was the first time ever being vulnerable with anybody [00:36:30] and it wasn't and I wasn't even scared It was just let me let someone know how I'm feeling Because these are people I know care about me, even though I never met them.

It's like, man, like I have a [00:37:00] group of brothers here that understand me. Like my regular best friends, they don't understand this. They haven't been through this, so they don't get it. They don't get where I'm at mentally every day. You know, y'all understand it. So that's why it's the difference between I [00:37:15] can come in and it's

Jason Smith: a difference of difference between sympathy and empathy.

Like if you notice, like you said, like you, not only were you not judge, But we didn't bombard you with a bunch of questions because we knew you were already struggling trying to figure out what exactly [00:37:45] I kind of pin, you know, pinpoint what was happening. And so we just gave you the space to do that. And that sometimes that silence is so important because it's not silence for silence sake because we don't know what to say.

And if we allow you the space to sit back and kind of process what's going on and just have your moment, like, cause there are just moments like we, you know, a lot of times we were taught, we're not, you know, men don't cry. That's just what you do. Sometimes you just [00:38:30] need to break the fuck down. Like sometimes you need that time to cry.

Kevin Goethe: And then just to, to get the messages after there's been like, Hey, reach out to this person. And I got a person here. If you need to talk to this person [00:39:00] here. And I'm like, cool. Like I got insurance insurance will cover five sessions a year. So it was just, The feeling accepted in that moment is what really brought me down.

Corby Jackson: It's because you're being [00:39:30] authentic. I think what what people don't realize Emotional breakthroughs are your most authentic version of you like There's not a time where I where i've experienced crying and I wasn't just [00:39:45] speaking about how I truly felt because One i'm crying because i'm hurting to to say this because I might not have ever I've never said this or presented this or expressed this before, but now [00:40:00] I'm able to share this and be open with this emotion and it is free, right?

Jason Smith: Most definitely is.

How many guys still haven't cried about giving themselves the emotion when they're proud of themselves?

Jason Smith: Yeah,

It's like this is your mom.

So what's there to be proud of? Like, really? All I did was snap myself back from where I was, where I shouldn't have got to in the 1st place. And it's so easy for us to step into that. Like, you saw me step into that mindset right then [00:41:30] automatically without even having to think about it because that's legitimately how it.

And if you really think about it, like you think of how long remap. What I've learned in those 48 years, like [00:42:00] it's, it's a lot. So, I mean, and it may be something that I never completely are able to remap. I can use coping skills that I've been taught, but to completely remap or that old show where I don't have to fight the old stuff off.

Like you're, you've got to give yourself the space and grace to be able to get to the other side of that because it is not going to be something that takes. It's not going to be easy and it won't be overnight. [00:42:45]

Corby Jackson: No, absolutely. And like, I want to kind of even tag along this concept of therapy because some people kind of.

Like when you were, you were with other things, like I want you to be so self sufficient that you're able to mindfully be aware that I can address this without needing my handheld or without needing a reassurance. Reassurance and [00:43:30] validation is a necessity in the growth process. But there becomes the point where the end date is there because you're capable to do it on your own.

Kevin Goethe: Right. So that'd be like, I guess you would say [00:44:00] self awareness tapping into your emotional awareness to the right.

I'm gonna get in trouble, I'm gonna get fired, whatever. So you take that moment, right, and instead of saying, because I think the emotion that I'm going to get fired or that I'm gonna lose my job and things like that, and be like, I'm aware that I [00:44:45] did something wrong. Right. I'm aware that this scares me.

Oh, yeah, right? Like I remember I remember taking pictures of the hospital with tubes in my hand like Look at me like i'm dying like i'm [00:45:30] Come love on me. Like, I need somebody to support me right now. And I'm like, that's, that's crazy. That's crazy. Like, if I, like, I, like, I, now I know I was just looking for, for a help, like a love [00:45:45] hug or, or someone to say, you know what?

Yeah. Yeah. [00:46:15]

I'd be like, man, I'd love to, but Ooh, I just, Ooh, I can't like, Ooh, I'm not feeling it. I look, I, when I figured out what FMLA was at my, at my previous job and figured out what that boy, listen, I wore those people out. I wore them [00:46:45] people out. I was like, Oh, I can have FMLA. I can just be gone. Like I can just leave.

Like, something's going on. Like, all the time. Yeah. [00:47:15] But like, realistically,

I bought like a

And the light on that

Corby Jackson: fits the

Jason Smith: cribs. I used to never pass a light on that at the Christmas game.

Yeah.

I faked a whole asthma attack. And I had my mom come all the way to the school to take me out. I'm over here with the breathing machine.[00:48:45]

Jason Smith: Got your mom

And she's like, you were sick. You don't get to make me take you to McDonald's. I was like, granted, because my mom was like, I'm already out here. Might as well.[00:49:15]

But you're going to hear

Kevin Goethe: I did that one thing I [00:49:45] said to my granddad house. He had a raccoon waiting on me. He had a raccoon waiting on me in the cooler. He said, you out of school? You gonna help me skin this coon? Right, I

Kevin Goethe: Maybe open the cooler, raccoon like this on ice. Oh no. Oh no. That's so quick.

Jason Smith: Absolutely.

Jason Smith: Uh,

Kevin Goethe: yeah,

Jason Smith: absolutely. Yeah, there's, there's a certain they know how to get over on you because they be like, oh, you're sick when you got to go over here.

Kevin Goethe: more of us be together more, more togetherness.

Jason Smith: who had weight [00:51:15] loss.

What about you, Corbin?

The different lifestyle changes and things like that. I would love for that to happen.

Jason Smith: Yeah.

Outside the concept of just being vulnerable, there has to be accountability to [00:52:15] an action you're going to do for the account of, for the vulnerabilities. All right, like I'm just if I'm telling you vulnerably that, hey, you know, I just ate some chicken and I just had a tub of ice cream. All right, that's just [00:52:30] me discharging it because I already did it already.

I don't want you to see you return back to who You saw yourself as just because you thought no one else was noticing. Well,

And so a lot of things can come out of that, like midlife crisis type level shit. And if there's nobody there to kind of help put the bumpers on and be like, Hey. Listen, [00:53:30] like, I understand, like, you're really kind of, you're, you're really kind of feeling yourself right now. Things are kind of going a little heavy, like, but let's not make any big, wild decisions until these, you know, the hormonal swings and things calm down a little bit.

[00:54:00] We're like, oh, hell yeah, I'm feeling a lot better. I got my stamina back. I got my sex drive back. I'm a high, like, like I'm a teenager again. And, but there's no, like you said, there's no real accountability to it. So you see a lot of dudes like trying to figure out who that the next [00:54:15] version of themselves is.

And guys, you know, guys just kind of expected to [00:54:45] be the homeboy club where we're like, man, hell yeah, that's tight. Like good, good on you for getting out there and doing your thing and knocking them down or what, you know, whatever it may be. But if there's nobody there to be like, are you sure what you're doing is the safest way to find who you [00:55:00] want to be.

Like you can find the next version of yourself without potentially causing harm on the backside of things.

Corby Jackson: Uh, you can do Instagram and TikTok, which [00:55:30] until I get the TikTok app back, uh, it's fade away rotten, right?

And, uh, it's reflexive truths. com. Is the website. Website, and you can go and book your session and see, and your, your life is in,

Kevin Goethe: Uh, y'all can find me on Facebook as Kevin go. Um, you can go on TikTok, VSG. Titan is my page, and then [00:56:30] it's the go on YouTube and TikTok.

Uh, we're going to figure out a way to get your tip top back to brother. We're going to get that tip top. Uh, we're not going to buy you a

Jason Smith: 10, 000 iPhone to get it back. We're just going to, we'll go.

So, um, yeah, man, it's, uh, we, it's been a slow [00:57:00] start to it, but we've got about. I want to say maybe 25 copies sold so far to people inside and outside the Berry Asher community. So a lot of people are loving it and I'm loving the love that we're receiving. So I'm going to continue working on this craft.

April Williams: That wraps [00:57:45] up another empowering episode of the BariNation podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, keep the conversation going by joining the Berry Nation membership community where you can attend live support events, access. On demand resources and find a caring community.

Jason Smith: And just remember at the end of the day, you've got this, we've got you and we'll see you next time. Bye [00:58:15] everybody.