Celebrating Small Family Businesses: A Conversation with Matilda and Damien Relyea

Matilda and Damien Relyea, founders of Relyea Insurance Group, speak about their journey in running a small family business. They detail the challenges they faced such as navigating financial hurdles and attaining a work-life balance. They also discuss the importance of self-reliance, lessons learned from other family business owners, and provide advice to aspiring entrepreneurs. Damien and Matilda emphasize the need to surround oneself with successful and experienced business owners for guidance and advise those considering starting a business to simply 'just do it'.

00:00 Introduction and Welcoming the Guests

00:26 Starting a Family Business: The Backstory

02:09 Challenges and Reactions from Family

03:26 The Joy of Working Together

05:47 Overcoming Challenges in the Business Journey

06:08 Balancing Work and Personal Life

06:52 Financial Stress and Its Impact

09:03 Creating a Healthy Work Environment

10:49 Lessons Learned and Advice for Aspiring Entrepreneurs

14:02 The Power of Being Debt-Free

14:45 The Dangers of Comparison and the Importance of Choices

15:36 The Trap of Living by Default

16:36 The Addiction to Materialism

18:14 The Changing Dynamics of Family and Business

21:00 The Importance of Networking and Learning from Others

22:43 The Value of Earning Your Place

25:04 The Power of Resilience and Self-Confidence

28:39 The Importance of Teaching Financial Responsibility

30:50 Closing Thoughts: Just Do It

You can find them at www.relyeainsurancegroup.com which will forward to https://usabg.com/DRelyea

Hi, so today we are celebrating

Damien and Matilda Relyea of

the Relyea Insurance Group.

Hi guys.

Hi.

How's it going?

We're happy to

have you here with us.

Yeah, thank you for joining us.

Thank you.

Thanks for having us.

Our theme is family, celebrating

family businesses, small family

businesses particularly, and you guys

I think fit that pretty perfectly.

So how did you get started

in family business?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, do you want to start with

a little bit of our back story?

Yeah.

So my, my background was I was

pursuing medicine at the same time.

I sort of got into real estate and

that ended up being the route that

I stayed on a little bit closer.

So I sold real estate.

I recruited real estate agents.

Damien's background was sort of

varied starting in, started in

plumbing, did a couple of things.

And we were introduced.

To to business, I guess by

connection in New York, which is

where we're from upstate New York.

And that those kind of

business connections originally

actually not an insurance.

They ended up bringing us to

Florida and about six months

after we moved to Florida.

Having spent some time working in the

insurance realm, we decided to start

our own insurance business together.

I should say he convinced me to

work in an insurance business with

him because that's a little bit

more what it was in the beginning.

But since then, about a year and a half

coming up on two years, actually, I

would say we've been insurance business.

Congrats.

Yeah.

Did either one of you guys come from have

a family business in your background?

No.

So both of our families are pretty

job minded, I guess you would say.

Your dad's an RN, your mom's a

accountant, my mom is a English teacher.

Yeah.

So we don't have really any background

as far as learning from someone as

running a small family business.

No.

My uncle had a pizza shop.

How's the piece of shop that I worked

in a little bit, but, but our, our

lineage is not really entrepreneurship.

Well, congrats for stepping

out and doing that.

Yeah.

Cause that is scary.

Yeah.

Any, any particular reactions

from family were, were they cautionary

about you when you decided to do this?

Not really.

We've always just kind of been.

I guess you would stay hardheaded

pretty straightforward.

Like we're going to get

this done no matter what.

So maybe a little bit.

But we also didn't really consult with

them because none of them own a business.

So we weren't going to ask other people

who didn't own businesses, what they

thought about us starting a business.

We talked to other business owners.

But yeah, I mean, obviously parents

always want the best for you.

But we've always just

kind of been that way.

I've wanted to own a business since I

was probably 15 or maybe even younger.

I had small variations of my

own businesses, I guess you

could say, in high school that

weren't technically on the books.

But yeah, they're, they're pretty

supportive.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think, and to your point, we

learned from business owners, we're

really fortunate actually to learn from

other business owners really early on.

Like, don't take advice from people

you wouldn't trade places with.

Yeah.

And that was a big deal

because I love my parents.

You love your parents, but we

wouldn't trade places with them.

In fact, a lot of what we do is for them.

So you, you can't take advice from

the same people you want to help.

Even though we have so much respect,

we've learned so much from them.

Absolutely.

That's a writer

downer right there.

Wow.

Very good.

Very good.

So what do you guys love

most about working together?

Yeah.

I think it's that phrase, just

being able to work together.

When we were working jobs, we

weren't in the job market or I guess

sphere, you could say very long.

We didn't pray for other people very long.

But we just hated being apart and

we were also building somebody

else's business all the time.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

We worked with great people.

We still have great

relationships with them.

We just got sick of

being apart all the time.

It just didn't really make sense for us.

So now we're together all the time.

We're building something

together for our family.

And it's just so much more fun.

It's so much more fulfilling.

I think people and us included, we

kind of went through the motions.

We were just showing up collecting a

paycheck and then, you know, that was it.

And now we're actually building something.

We're on an adventure.

Yeah.

And I think that to your, to

your point as well about having more

freedom and choice, like when you were

working, when Damien was working at an

insurance agency, you have a ceiling.

And that's, I mean, that's true of

anything, like when you're working

for somebody, you have a ceiling

because you have opposing interests.

Their goal is to pay you as

little as possible and get as much

value from you, which is fine.

That's their business.

And your goal is to make

as much money as possible.

And in some people's case, do

as little work as possible.

So you really are kind of at odds.

And he just saw the opportunity of like,

I can do everything my employer is doing.

All he's doing is buying, you know,

insurance and buying me leads and

making me come and sit in an office.

And I can do those two things by myself.

And so he's like, he made it that simple.

And I think that was key, honestly,

at first for insurance, just

making it that simple and saying,

Well, I can do this stuff myself.

Yeah, I think one of my

skills is explaining things like I'm

explaining it to a fourth grader,

because that's how I operate.

I'm like a fourth grade level, so I

can break things down pretty simple.

That is huge.

Simplicity.

Simplicity is an art.

I don't, have you ever heard of

the physicist Richard Feynman?

No, he is well known.

In fact, it's called

the Feynman technique.

And it's basically, if you can't take

something and explain it to an eight

year old, you don't understand it.

You're right up there with

a brilliant physicist.

So is there, is there any challenge

that you've overcome together in

your journey that other couples

might benefit from hearing about?

Yeah.

I mean, I'd say so the first

year in business, the first

couple of years in business for

most businesses is pretty tough.

You're investing a lot.

You're not necessarily always seeing

the return that you want to see.

In the beginning, it was very much

separating work from not work.

Because we started off

in our small apartment.

It's a very small apartment.

We've worked from home.

We did everything from home,

everything,

desks in the living room.

Not a good idea.

It was fun.

Like

it was a grind.

It was fun.

It was the beginning.

But it got to the point where it

was like, man, this is not healthy.

Cause when you're sitting down

relaxing, you can see your desk and

you're like, wow, I should be working.

And it's like nine o'clock at

night and you should not be working

because you've worked all day.

So yeah, just one learning

how to work as a couple.

But also learning how to separate

that when it's not business, you're

spending time going to dinner, not

talking about, Oh, Hey, we need to

buy this and we need to do that.

All right.

What's the P and L look like just being

able to spend time together and separate

it.

And I mean, for most people in new

to business, I mean, your number

one problem is cashflow, like at the

top of pretty much everyone's list.

And so we were, we were profitable our

first year in business, I would say.

That business was making money, but

we were not making money which is

the case for a lot of people because,

you know, even in the beginning when

you're succeeding, you know, we're

like, Oh, yes, like, this is great.

Look at our profit margins.

And then we're like, Oh, but we have

bills and expenses and all of that.

And so it was cool to come out of.

You know, that phase but I think

that's kind of the big, a big challenge

and it can cause a lot of stress.

Like financial stress can

leak into your personal life.

So, yeah, I think we were blessed

to have really good influences just

in our personal life of how to have.

you know, a good marriage.

And that's something that's a continual

work in progress for everybody.

But if you can't separate that, like

the financial stress, it can like

really, you know, be hard on a marriage.

Yeah, I agree.

I want to call out something you just

said that kind of slipped on by, which

was the idea of financial stress can

leak into the into the relationship.

I think it's A much stronger

statement would be appropriate.

I think what I've read is like the,

that's one of the biggest problems

that couples in business together

face is that is the financial

stress stresses the relationship.

Yeah.

And I mean, number

one cause of divorce.

As far as I know, it's financial stress.

You guys can correct me because I, you

have your, you have your facts straight

a lot more than I do, I think, but but

yeah, that financial piece is big, even

for people who don't own a business.

So when you own a business and it's like

suddenly everything, you know, the way

you say is like, you have to hunt and

kill and everything you're going to eat.

That's the most, how it feels.

That's kind of like a primal

example, but like when you're right.

Deal by deal, commission by commission.

That's what it is.

There's no taking it easy today.

Cause you're out, you're

literally hunting.

If you don't kill, like you don't

eat, like you gotta, you gotta

put in work, make sure it happens.

Well, and being together

24 seven is another stressor,

right?

Yeah, I mean, we love it.

Like we're, we, we understand that.

Yeah, we've done really good at it.

But we also got to the point

where I got an office space.

We learn our,

we learn how to navigate

it.

Yeah, yeah.

Because we'll distract each other.

When we're together all the time,

we won't get as much work done

because we're just hanging out.

We want to have fun.

We want to talk.

So I ran, we ran a small office

space for me to go to during the day.

So one of the ways you

figured out to work more effectively

business wise was to create a

little separate physical separation.

Yeah, 100%.

When he's home like today he came

home from the office early and he

says, Oh, I'm coming home early.

I'm like, Okay.

I'm not going to get anything done.

And I know that.

And that's, you know, obviously

I can work if I have something

booked, you know, it's easy.

Cause I, it's booked.

I can be there.

But yeah, I think we do our best work

separately and it's fun to be together

all the time, but we did have to kind of

find that, you know, balance, especially

because for us, some couples maybe can

sit there and work together for us.

The majority of our work

is done over the phone.

So you can't really have, you know, Two

conversations, phone conversations going

in the same, same small space, same room.

So that does make it a little tough.

So we did have to kind of work

that out and get another space.

Okay.

Yeah, we actually are similar position.

Connie's computer is, desk is right there.

And so if we both wanted to be on the same

zoom call, we would have problems with

echo and you know, all that kind of stuff.

So hence we sit next to each

other for, for coaching and, or I

moved my computer

into the, into the dining room.

Yeah.

No, they're into the house.

Yeah.

Well, there's not a problem.

Yeah, absolutely.

And we've done

that too.

Is there anything that you, anything

about being, working together in a

family business that, you know, now that

you wish you'd known when you started?

I know it's kind of, you're

kind of new in the game yet.

I mean, yeah.

I think, and I

think we've said this before.

I think if we knew, I don't want to

say, I don't want to use the word hard.

I don't really like that word hard.

We work on changing our vocabulary

and having the right words coming

out, but I think if we had known.

Certain things we maybe

wouldn't have started.

So I actually think that that

phrase ignorance is bliss

and that can come off wrong.

We're very glad for the decisions

we've made, but I think if you know too

much, it can actually be a detriment.

So we, we talk to people a lot who,

I mean, they want to start a business

or maybe they're, they're doing what

they're doing and they want to have

something else or other things going.

And it's like, The main thing that you,

you just say a lot is just do it, like

stop talking about it, just do it, because

if you, you can't research it all the

way, you can't explore it all the way,

like, one, the more you know, could be

detrimental to you, you just, potentially,

and two, it's never going to happen.

Yeah, no for sure.

You're never

going to get all the answers,

right?

No, no.

And if you get them all,

you might not want them all.

So you might as well just go

through it until you have the

result you want.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, we'll have people who ask

us you know, whether it's family,

whether it's friends, cause like we

haven't done a lot yet, but we've

been self employed for almost two

years now, fully the both of us.

Like that's an accomplishment.

And they'll, they'll just act

like, okay, I'm going to do this.

I'm thinking about that.

And I'm like, Just do it.

Like there's nothing

else I can say to you.

Like until you start going through

the action we're not going to

be able to have a conversation

cause you just don't get it.

And that's not to be offensive.

That's not to be rude.

But when you're talking to another

business owner, the conversation is just.

There's more depth.

There's more conviction.

There's more relatability.

So you just have to start.

Or it's just never going to happen.

Yeah, yeah.

And we don't know what you don't know.

Right?

Yeah, like,

yeah, exactly.

And that's like.

Like again, like that's actually a gift

for the first, you know, a little bit,

because if we had known like some of the

stressors or some of the things that we

would encounter not say that we wouldn't

have done it, but would we have been as

excited or like as ambitious about it?

Maybe not like you never know.

Maybe we would have been like, Oh,

well, if we can foresee, we're going

to encounter this financial stress.

Maybe we shouldn't invest so much here.

That's not how it works.

You don't get to.

look down the road and feel like, Oh, I

should do this or I shouldn't do this.

You just have to do it.

And we're just really thankful

we had the influences.

To help us set ourselves up right

and make the right decisions.

You know, for us starting a business,

we were fortunate to be debt free.

That was an important thing for us,

because when you're investing a lot of

money, the lower your cost of living,

the better, and we see people around

us who sometimes they don't have those

influences, or maybe they haven't listened

to the same voices and, you know, we're

just thankful that we did because we

set ourselves up in the beginning.

Had we not done that...

Cause if we had, you know, two

car payments, a truck payment, I think

the average car payment in America

right now, I just heard the other

day, it was like $600-$700 a month.

Like that's insane.

That's a lot and there's nothing wrong.

Like if you want to do

that, we're not against it.

We are for our family because

we know being debt free has

created a lot of options for us.

We don't owe anybody anything.

So we can take that $700 and turn it into

$2, 500 by investing in our business.

So yeah, again, I think.

I'm never one to, we're kind

of going off on a rampage.

Yeah, it's, I don't want to.

No, that's, that really comes

back to my previous, you know,

question about, well, what would

you, you know, is there something

you'd tell other business owners?

And that I think managing debt and keeping

your debt as low as possible is a huge

you know, wisdom, point of wisdom, I'll

say that, that a lot of people just

don't get in our culture of payments?

You know how much...

subscription model; everything's

a subscription today.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No.

And I think one thing that I would add

is just comparison is the thief of joy.

That's what we've heard.

One thing we did during that, I completely

cut out social media for a time period.

Because when you're looking at

Instagram, when you're looking at it,

like, are there some people on there

that probably live that lifestyle?

I think absolutely.

There's probably some,

but most of them don't.

I think it's too easy for people just

to post what their life looks like.

And you're like, man, why are, why does

it feel like we're hemorrhaging money?

And there's other people who are out there

living a lifestyle that we want to live.

So just like doing what you need to

do, I think too many people think

it's easy to start a business now

when it really is like, it's one of

the hardest things that you will do.

And I think you could

probably make more sense of

this in the psychological realm.

But we, we talked recently about

like, there's this mindset of.

Like just this life path that people

follow almost by default of like,

you go to school, come out, you get

a job, you meet a guy, or if you're,

you meet somebody, you get a dog.

You get a house, you have a baby

and like we see people who, and

there's nothing wrong with that path

at all, like, but we see people who

they don't actually make choices.

They don't by not making a choice all

of their life choices happen by default

and happens to follow that same model.

And I'm like, wow, I'm so not that

there's anything wrong with those things.

I'm like, I'm just so glad that we

took a step back and like evaluated

some things and chose to make a couple

different choices along the way.

And we just see so many people who

follow and some of those people who

even say they want to own a business,

but there's, there's still making

all those other this cascade of

decisions that's preventing that.

Maybe there's some psychological

explanation for that.

I don't know.

But it's interesting to see.

I'm not a psychologist.

Yes, but I would agree with you.

There's a lot there that, you know,

living by default those, they're addicted

to it.

You know, they're addicted

to a new car every year.

They're addicted to, you know, whatever

that they're, they're going out for

dinner three or four times a week.

And, you know, the fancy alcohols

and the things like that.

Yeah.

And it

becomes an issue That they get

locked in to where they're they're at,

instead of pulling out like you guys

did and saying, no, we don't need all

that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I don't think there's anything wrong

with those things about once you've for

a period of time for a period of time.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

It gets so radical.

And maybe that's not, maybe that

gets people a little upset, but if

you, I just heard it the other day.

I don't remember what it was, but

if you want to win, you better be

radical at whatever you want to win.

Cause when you're, it goes

back to sports, right?

Like if you want to win the super

bowl, you're not going to win the

super bowl by playing golf part time,

like during the season, they are

obsessed and radical with winning.

You have to do that.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

You have to cut it out

for a period of time.

And then once you've reached a certain

point, you can probably bring those things

slowly back in or back in completely.

Yeah,

it's, it's it's kind of an

impatience at getting, reaching the goal.

You know, I, I want to have this

lifestyle or this, you know, I will

eventually want to achieve this.

And, and the mountain that they've

got to climb to get there seems,

just seems to get bigger, so then

they start trying to take shortcuts.

"Well, I'll just buy this now."

And I instant, gratification.

Yeah.

We're in such an instant

gratification world.

Yeah.

Interesting that you mentioned the, you

know, the kind of the, the cultural models

of, you know, like go to, go to school,

get a job, have a baby, all those things.

I mean, yes, there is a, there's an

assumption in, in, in the culture

of, of what, or has been for a long

time of what a family looks like

and what an ideal life looks like.

And when I was, when we were growing up.

You know, the idea was to have a pension.

You work for the same, you want to work

for the same company for 40 years and

get a pension and the company would

fund that, you know, pension for your

rest of your life, for your retirement.

And that all went away.

Yeah.

There's so many things that

we've seen just go away.

And, but, and talking about family,

as we discussed doing family

businesses for, for this podcast.

We've also got to expand our

model of what is a family.

It's a traditional you know, look of

a family and has been you know, they

oftentimes the, the founder, the person

that runs the business is the male.

And you know, there was a, a cultural

expectation of subservient females

in the, you know, fifties and

before, and all of that has changed.

And so, you know, we've, we got to embrace

the, the variety that exists today.

Yeah.

And I think I, like we talked

about this a little bit when we, when

we met previously that there's different

models of a family business for us because

we are You know, I guess you would say

a first generation family business.

We don't have the same dynamics

that maybe a second and third

generation business would have for us.

We just have us.

So it does come down to that.

Like, like you said, there are

some preconceived models and, and

some of those things are good.

And some of those things are not

some, some work, some didn't.

And it's just like, how do

you, how do we have the best?

highest functioning team.

And that's something that we talk about

because there are times where we have

to shift and be like, okay, if your,

if your plate is full and mine's not

that I need to take something off your

plate and to be able to kind of make

those shifts and acknowledge when,

you know, I have to acknowledge just,

just by the virtue of the way our

business runs, Damon does our sales.

I focus on recruiting

and building our team.

So he does have.

More of that stress at this

point in our business, just

by virtue of where things are.

And so yeah, we definitely have to be kind

of conscious of that dynamic and making

sure things are moving fluidly because it

can be really easy for one person to be

bogged down more than the other for sure.

And that's going to happen

anyway in a, in any kind of

relationship, right?

Yeah,

absolutely.

So do you network with any

other family business owners?

Yeah, I would definitely say so.

Yeah.

We are big internet, we decided pretty

early on in our business and every

model is different, but our business

is pipeline built, built upon leads.

So we decided we wanted to buy

higher quality leads and network.

That was kind of our, our goal of how

we wanted our business to be built.

And we've done that pretty successfully.

Now there's still phone calls

involved sometimes, but.

That that network of modeling we do we

did join a couple of networking groups

and we've had to evaluate over time what

works and what doesn't, but networking

has been really successful for us.

And I would say that there are probably

several family businesses among

people that we, yeah, that we work

with.

Any, any specific lessons or takeaways

that you've gained from having that

interaction with those other businesses?

Yeah, I wouldn't say

necessarily as far as like owning

a family business on that side.

But one thing that we're really good at

is getting around other people that are a

lot better and more experienced than us.

So I mean, countless.

Yeah.

Countless lessons.

The only reason we have what we

have and are going to continue

to grow is because of the people

we've surrounded ourselves with.

Yeah, so that's, yeah,

that's the other

piece of advice we would get.

That's that you say that that's, that

should be the only piece of advice

that we give to business people

who want to own a business, gather

around people who own a business.

Don't go to the bar happy hour and say,

Hey, to your buddy at your corporate job,

Hey, you know what I'm thinking of doing?

I think I want to start a business.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They're gonna be like, Oh,

right now it's Friday night.

We're gonna, this is not the

right person to talk to you.

Get around those people.

But I think in family business,

I mean, from the ones that we've

observed, and I think it's just

important for the second generation

to have to work for it and to, to earn

their own, like dignity and respect.

And I'll, I'll be, I'll be non

specific cause I don't want to say

anything specific, but for the second

generation to have to come into

their own and maybe not just to.

I don't know fall into

the family business.

I guess just that's something that I think

from the ones that we've seen I think is

helpful, you know, because then you really

can truly have a respect dynamic, as

opposed to maybe just tension or feeling

of subservience or something like that.

So I think that that's something

should we, you know, have.

In the future, even like our kids, some,

someday far down the road in business with

us, far down the road Connie understands.

You get this.

Then, yeah, I think that

would be like our main thing.

We would want them to, to go through

their own pain and their own, their own

growth and let them suffer a little bit.

For themselves so that they

respect themselves and so that

we can have a mutual respect.

Yeah, that is actually one of

the, the main pieces of advice that

that we see over and over, you know, in

various levels, you know, we're again

focusing more on smaller business, but

the through all levels of the family

members that come in as a second or later

generation, they need to earn their place.

Nobody is served by somebody just being

given a job because they're, yeah,

having, especially if they're unqualified.

And the experience of going out

and working in either the same or

a different industry, but going out

and getting that business experience.

Ideally in the same industry, working

for a competitor that brings out, you

know, they learned so much and they see

what worked and what didn't work there.

And then they can bring the best into

the family if they choose to join.

But then they're coming in they're much

better informed, you know, they're,

they've got their eyes wide open

instead of just, well, you know, Mom

and Dad have always taken care of me.

And I'm

speaking from experience.

Yeah.

When you get your own teeth kicked

in, it's a little bit different.

Yeah.

And I think that's

something that we talk about.

We're really thankful that,

you know, we didn't have.

That the fan even even stepping

away from the business structure

of us kind of coming up and then

getting into business for ourselves.

We're really thankful that we

didn't have that kind of backdoor

of family financial support.

You know, like.

Nobody bought either of us our first car.

Like nobody, my parents paid for

half of my associate's degree.

So do the math.

I, I was putting myself through college

and I don't complain about that at all.

In fact, I'm like thankful for that

because I knew walking around that

campus, I had, it gives you like a

little bit of a pride of ownership.

I knew like, I'm paying my way.

And, you know, same thing for you, you

buy vehicles and starting business.

Like, yeah.

All that stuff.

And I don't want to make it sound like

we, you know, walked uphill both ways.

We didn't like we had, you know, we were

really blessed with the families we have,

but to the same point, like they didn't.

give us.

And I can, and I'm so

happy.

Yes, that is, we call

that self-confidence.

There is a distinction between

confidence and self-confidence.

, that you were able to take those

experiences and internalize

them as self confidence.

Basically, I did that.

I did that.

I know I can do that.

And that gives you a a strength,

a resilience that a lot of people

don't have doesn't come otherwise.

And so yes, kudos to you.

You got to have

skin in the game, right?

You gotta

put in your time and you

gotta put in your effort.

What was it that we, we also, the

whole thing about if we stop somebody

from having the experience where,

oh, yeah, it's that very wise

person said to me the cruelest thing

you can do is to prevent somebody

from experiencing the consequences

of their choices, or their actions.

We can point time and

time again that we had to kind

of go through things on our own.

And then we can look at somebody else

who, you know, maybe we are close to her.

We have a lot of love for, but they didn't

have to go through that on their own.

I think of our first year in business

and we went through some, you know,

financial challenges like it sounds

better if you say cashflow problems.

So that's what business owners should say.

Right.

But no, no, no.

We went through.

Yeah.

You know, financial challenges.

And in that time, like you have a

choice, you can look around for help.

You can try to get somebody

else to bail you out.

Or you can be like, you know

what, I'm going to dig in and

I'm going to get really gritty.

And I'm going to do things that

people don't really like to

talk about and find a way to.

Plug the gap and go make some extra cash.

And nobody likes to talk about

that because they have an ego.

They don't want to talk about

door dashing on a Friday night.

Well, I'm a, I'm a business owner.

What do you mean?

I'm at networking groups and I, yeah,

I address, but it doesn't matter if

you're losing money and it doesn't

matter what the appearance is.

So, you know, we're really thankful

that we went through some of those

times where we got gritty and coming

out of that, like you said, that self

confidence so much higher as opposed to.

Being like, Oh man, I'm so glad mom and

dad come through with 500 bucks for us.

Like that doesn't, then

you, you feel the opposite.

You feel shameful.

You feel guilty because we know people

who do have those situations where

they're constantly going and going and

constantly getting, you know, that relief.

And it's, it's.

Detrimental in the long run.

Yeah.

So yeah, a

hundred percent.

Well, I, I'm confident that if you

have a second generation, join your

business, they're going to be in

good hands and well, so I think

I'm to the extreme.

I'm like, I don't want

to buy our kids cars.

They can pay for their own college.

Like, I don't, what do they need that for?

Like, yeah, I think

that's a little extreme.

I think, you know, maybe

we'll soften up, but I'm like.

No, if we have, if, and when we have

kids and it's like that whole thing of

like, you're not rich, mom and dad are

rich, like they make sure their kids

know that you don't have anything like

in a positive way, like

very uplifting, but but

yeah, I think I'm a lot, you're really

seriously, you

don't have anything.

Yeah, pretty much like

we're joking, but we're not.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Awesome.

No,

it's true.

It's true.

And that's it's, it's not only a good

perspective for the, that child to

have, but then that child can also

communicate that to, to their friends,

for example, that, that, you know, are

thinking that because their parents

have money that they can just, you

know, it's a free flowing thing.

Well, and they're always asking them for

stuff, you know, my parents have money.

I don't have money.

I

go to school.

Yeah.

Well, this has been wonderful.

Thank you so much, guys.

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All right.

Perfect.

And I'll make sure I put that in the show

notes when we get this on posted online.

Is there any other words

of wisdom that you'd like to

close us out with?

Yeah.

Just do it.

Nike has the best slogan ever.

I didn't appreciate it

until we owned a business.

Just do it.

Stop talking about it.

No one wants to hear it

until you've done it.

So just do it.

Yeah,

that's good.

I'll leave it at that.

Perfect.

Right.

Love it.

Thank you guys.

Thank you for joining us.

Pleasure.

We appreciate it.