Marc Sylvester, a paragon of Ohio high school track and field, etched his name into the annals of athletic excellence by establishing an unprecedented 800-meter record in 2001. In this discourse, we, Dr. Leo Kormanik and Zach Goulet, delve into the profound influence Marc had on our formative years as runners, serving as an idol and a source of inspiration. Our conversation traverses the intricacies of Marc's illustrious journey, exploring his experiences during the late 1990s and early 2000s, a period that witnessed his remarkable feats on the track. We also reflect on the evolution of competitive running, marked by the shift in training methodologies and the burgeoning camaraderie among athletes. Join us as we celebrate the legacy of an athlete who not only revolutionized the 800-meter race but also left an indelible mark on the community of runners that followed in his footsteps.

In a compelling discourse, the episode features Marc Sylvester, whose legacy in Ohio's track and field history is cemented by his extraordinary 800m record established in 2001. The dialogue, led by Dr. Leo Kormanik and Zach Goulet, who both idolized Sylvester during their own athletic careers, offers listeners a glimpse into the life of a high school legend. The conversation traverses Sylvester's initial foray into running, marked by a laid-back approach to training, juxtaposed with a fierce competitive drive that ultimately propelled him to greatness. Sylvester shares anecdotes about his formative years, the dynamics of his high school team, and the evolution of his training strategies. The hosts engage Sylvester in discussions about the pressures of competition, the significance of mentorship, and the ever-evolving landscape of track and field. This rich narrative not only celebrates Sylvester's achievements but also serves as a testament to the values of perseverance and passion that define the sport.

Takeaways:

• Marc Sylvester's record-breaking 800m run in 2001 remains a significant milestone in Ohio high school track history.
• The camaraderie among runners during the late 90s and early 2000s fostered a competitive yet supportive environment.
• The discussion highlights the evolution of training strategies from the 90s to the present, showcasing advancements in preparation.
• Marc's transition from a high school athlete to a college competitor illustrates the challenges faced by young athletes.
• The importance of mentorship in athletics was emphasized through the influence of coaches on Marc's development as a runner.
• Both hosts expressed their admiration for Marc Sylvester, reflecting on how he shaped their own running careers.

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• CEP
• Asics
• Adidas

Guided lifting and all, but really it was just do what you do.

And I ate my chili cheese fritos as I walked back to the rta.

I was doing three hour workout sessions.

We always make the joke like those middle school skittle bellies.

Oh, yeah, dude, I know.

Running off Mike and Ikes and stuff.

I ate a super rope before every 800 my senior year.

All right, here we go.

All right.

Yo, yo, we're live.

Here we are, everybody.

This is another episode of the Mind Body marathon.

On our show today is the.

The great Mark Sylvester.

So this is a.

So this.

I'm your host, Dr.

Leo.

And also on the show today is old regular Zach Delay.

This is a fun one for us.

I did, yeah.

And I found out on your IAF page your birthday, which is five days before mine.

Okay.

So we're both November babies.

The man.

And we're gonna get a little bit of conversation about what's under the hood and.

And.

And this will be a fun show, but we're lucky to have him in studio because you currently in live.

Where in California?

I live outside of San Francisco.

In San Mateo.

San Mateo, Nice.

And what are you doing out there?

I work for a German athletic company, cep.

We're known for our medical grade compression socks, tall socks, calf sleeves.

Yeah.

And just recently we just took our first four way into footwear with our CEP Omnispeed.

So I'm head of US Footwear and sales for that right now.

So.

Very exciting.

That's very exciting.

That's pretty cool, actually.

Yeah, that is.

I just signed up for the Cologne marathon.

I saw that my brother in law went to college in Cologne from Brazil.

He went from Brazil to Germany to study and he's gonna do his first marathon there.

So that'd be fun.

Have you been?

I've been to Germany.

I haven't been to Cologne.

Where is CEP based by?

Right.

Which is a couple hours north of Munich.

Okay, that's cool.

That's cool.

So, yeah, we were talking about super rope.

So that was that one of your strategies back in the.

Back in the day?

I don't even know if I had a strategy.

You're gonna blow people's minds.

I had this.

I mean, we're going to get there eventually.

Yeah.

And I looked at some of my answers and I was like, wow.

I don't know how I was good.

We did not do a whole lot of stuff.

Like people had very intricate warm ups and this and race day routines.

It's like we didn't even have matching warm ups.

And I went to Ignatius, right.

He just showed up and it was like, all right, we're gonna go run today and here we go.

And it was very nonchalant and fun.

But I think part of that led to our success.

Yeah, huh?

North Canton Hoover.

We had like orange and black, like zip up top, green shorts, like just getting ready to go.

And we would just go out there.

But then you'd have Glenville, who was in like an army line with all black warm ups, hoods up, doing what, whatever they were doing.

And it was just, it was so interesting to see the, the, the dynamic of these two different facts of, of track and field.

Yeah, I mean, of course, you know, like naturally, I think the Internet sort of leveled the playing field on things.

And, and just like you said, like in the 90s, you were just like, dude, I don't know.

This is what we do.

This is our little subculture.

And then a couple times a year we all meet together at state and see what happens.

Right.

So you know who I was just talking to the other day about you?

Aaron Rowe.

You remember him?

I do.

So I didn't realize your guys's battles.

So I'm about to say what nice things did he have to say about me in the.

When I passed him in the four by just a little sophomore.

So they were.

He ran for Dublin, Seattle.

And you guys went at it for a couple years in the 4x8, right?

We did.

We did.

So, so what happened your freshman year?

So my freshman year I was.

So I went to Ignatius primarily to play football.

That's okay.

What does.

Everyone did.

So yeah, I mean, I ran tracking.

Where did you grow up?

In Cleveland, Shaker Square.

Okay.

So Shaker Square went to St.

Dominic's Elementary School.

My first foray into running was I played football for St.

Ann.

And there was the weight limit, and I had a big growth spurt from sixth to seventh grade, and I played quarterback.

So to maintain weight, like a boxer or anything, I just ran everywhere.

Ran.

And they were like, oh, you're gonna run track?

I'm like, okay, cool.

So there's a kind of, like, legend of what happened.

So first meet ever, seventh grade.

I'm at Gilmore Academy.

And it's March in northeast Ohio, so we all know the weather was perfect.

I'm wearing hand me down shoes because my grandmother was a cleaning lady at Benedict and would find stuff, and that's what we wore.

So I'm wearing hand me down sho and a sweatsuit.

My coach is like, you're gonna run the 400.

All right, cool.

He goes, when the gun goes off, just go.

So I'm lining up.

They're like seventh grade boys.

They're stripping down.

They have the little shorts.

They have singlets.

They're wearing spikes.

Like, what is this?

He's like, you're fine, you're fine, you're fine.

Gun goes off.

I just do what I do.

And I think my first ever was 58 seconds.

That's amazing.

They were like, okay, you're gonna run.

So going to freshman year, played football.

That was fun.

Coach Becker was like, oh, you're gonna play freshman basketball?

I'm like, no, I've played center for this whole time because I've been the same height since seventh grade.

I'm like, I have no ball handling skills.

You don't want me on the basketball court.

Coach Kyle's like, no, he's gonna come with us.

So I was a sprinter.

Coach Kyle always wanted me to be a 300 hurdler.

Um, the problem with that is my coordination is nil.

So you weren't going to get me over the sticks.

I would be tripping and falling everywhere.

However, big ups and I still will send messages to them.

The great Frank Jancura snaked me away for a couple workouts because we needed somebody.

We had a very senior led 4x8.

And the tradition at Ignatius, always from the 90s and everything's.

We.

That was our.

That was our event.

All right, Mark, you're gonna.

We're at a dual meet against Benedictine.

They have a very good 800 runner.

It was Tim Jackson, who was a state champ and everything in Division 2.

Just follow him and see what happens.

All right.

201.

My first ever 800, as I know, as I can think of.

I think that's the only time I ever lost an open 800 in the state of Ohio.

It was my first time freshman year, so.

Was on the 4 by 8, qualified for state.

As you know, that was the last year at Ohio Stadium, which was really special.

I was.

I was on the.

I was second leg of the 4 by 8, second leg of the 4 by 1, and I let off the 4x4.

Oh, my gosh.

You guys won the state meet, right?

No, no, no.

Great team.

We got elbowed.

Bobby Thomas was our leadoff.

He was a very good runner.

Ran at Duke, fell down and we played catch up.

I think we finished fifth or so.

We kind of sunk our chances in the four by eight.

So that just set it off.

And that was the Cotto kid that.

Yeah, so that was the first one.

Really didn't know anything.

I was just a freshman.

I just remember getting the baton running as hard as I can.

I think it would have been if you.

If you probably.

I think I split 155 and it was probably the ugliest 155 ever.

I was out in 53 because I didn't know what to do.

So that was the.

That was the foray.

And then by the time sophomore year came, they were like, I think you're gonna run the Open now.

And that's where I started.

Running the Open.

Yeah.

Dang.

That's awesome.

That's really cool.

Yeah.

So then he.

He was mentioning that.

That I think at one point you thought that he.

It was him that elbowed your guy.

Again.

I have no idea.

Yeah, there's.

Well, I won't use any colorful language, but please, we have.

I had the ultimate pot stir, if you will.

I mean, I ran with Mickey Martin, so, yeah, I think he was the one that was planting that in my head for all sorts of just motivation and revenge against Dublin Scioto when we ran.

So we had again, a very upperclassman laden team and myself.

So we had three seniors and myself sophomore year, and we were middling.

I mean, we were good.

I mean, we knew we would probably make state, but nothing where I thought we were going to run and actually win state that year.

So we had a surprise run from our leadoff.

We were in it.

We were in it.

And then, I don't know.

RO just passed me a little too early.

Yeah.

Now, okay, so this brings up a good point I want to get to.

When did you kind of flip the switch and think about like, you're like, I'm.

I'm controlling these races.

Like, I'm gonna.

I'm.

I'm sort of dictating what's happening here.

And rather than like, you know, your freshman kid, you just kind of get other race and you're sort of reacting to what's happened around, you know, when did you really, like, you're like, I'm gonna lay my stamp here.

Like, I'm gonna let people know who I am and, and really start pushing forward.

Great question.

And I can tell you because it was 25 years ago this last week, regionals, junior year.

Okay.

So we had an idea.

So I ran.

Ended up running 151 my sophomore year, one state.

But it was very, like you said, reactionary run with the crowd.

Yeah, you had beement.

You had.

You had a lot of these older guys.

It was like, stay with them, stay with them.

Make your move.

Fine.

By the time I got to my junior year, it was kind of the same thing.

We really didn't know what the next leap was.

If the school record, which was also the state record at the time was is that attainable?

Is that just biting off more.

We can chew.

What's going to happen?

What was that record?

Oh, God.

It was 151.

Okay.

And so it was a hot day at Amherst.

And I just remember Coach Kyle coming up to me and just going, just go.

Just don't be in the race.

Don't, like, don't let anyone else dictate this.

Just go and see what happens.

And that was when I finally.

That's when I went 149.5 and.

And was the first Ohio high school kid to break 1:50.

Did you have an idea when you were in the race that you were gonna go that fast or was it.

Did it kind of come to you as a shock?

I think, I think it was.

I think it was a pretty decent shock.

I mean, I knew I was running fast.

It was.

Again, we talked about the weather.

You have one of those, like, warm days and you're just like all giddy.

Just don't know what the feel is.

I was hardly any wind, very hot on the track.

And so, yeah, just came across the line and you know, again, wonderful love and props to Frank Shanker.

He was doing the announcing and just hearing the time, it seemed very surreal that that was the time.

Unfortunately, about two days later, my whole world crashed down.

With the collapsed lung.

But, you know, that's.

Didn't know that happened.

So what happened there?

So I ran the 800, ran the 4x4.

We qualified for state in that as well.

Two days later, I wake up.

My right side of my chest is just super pain.

Just I.

You know, I kind of.

I kind of feel the gurgling and all of that.

So go to the hospital.

They run the blood oximeter.

That's still high.

Everything's fine.

They do the chest X ray, and I'm sitting there, and they just, like.

They're talking to my mom.

They're like, Mrs.

Lester, come here, come here, come here.

All right.

Your son has a 75% collapsed lung on his right side.

They're just, like, surprised that my vitals were still what they were.

So, yeah, spontaneous pneumothorax took me out of the junior.

Took me out of the junior year state meet.

But I.

Dude, everybody was happy around.

The state on that one.

I actually have.

As we talked at the Cleveland Marathon.

He still holds the, you know, our school record for the 800, which is what, 1:53?

It's not that fast, to be honest with you.

It's not that fast.

But.

So Brandon McGooth, rip to him.

He was best friends with my brother, and so he would come over during the season just, like, hang out and whatnot.

And like, he was.

Do you remember him?

Oh, no.

100.

Yeah.

Well, we were discussing.

And not to segue, but, like, the crazy thing was he was like.

He was a wrestler.

Had, like, this wrestler body.

It wasn't a runner doing this.

Like, he was all just grunt and go.

So we say, like, 153 in this.

But kind of like a Cam Haynes kind of guy.

He was just a.

He was just a grinder.

Yeah, just tough dude.

And I remember he came over and we were talking about track.

And my dad was into track, too, and he was the one that kind of.

Or.

Or introduced or introduced me to track.

And Brandon was like, yeah, so Mark has, like, a collapsed lung.

And, you know, I.

I think I got a chance.

You know, I think I got a chance to capitalize on this.

And we were talking about it, and so I've known this for.

So who won that year.

Then Brandon.

Brandon did.

I didn't know that.

Brandon.

Brandon won second.

The year after.

I tried my hardest.

I wasn't medically cleared, but I was like, I think I could still do this.

And Kyle.

And I'm like, no, you're not.

So I actually sat about two or three weeks, but I actually went to Adidas outdoor nationals after that.

I finished third and ran 149.60 something.

And, you know, I think it was John Dye.

He did the die stat stuff forever.

Here I'm sitting in the infield, and he's, like, interviewing me and talking to me.

And I'm with a couple.

I'm with Jonathan Johnson, who won, and Adam Davis, who finished second, who went to run on at Rice.

And he's like, so, Mark, how's it going?

Like, how long were you in the hospital?

I was like, oh, a couple days.

And they're like, oh, what happened?

He had a 75, collapsed lung.

And, like, they're looking at me like, why are you running?

Crazy, man, you.

So we were discussing at the marathon.

So Brandon wins.

This was the beginning of the cesspool, which was cleveland.com message boards.

There was this, like, artificial rivalry.

Like, it was just this most ridiculous thing.

Somebody would be like, you know.

You know, North Canton fan, blah, blah numbers or whatever would be like, oh, Sylvester, be afraid.

You know, Brandon won this year.

He's gonna take you out.

I'm like, I don't care.

Like, this is.

And Brandon could have gave no crap, too.

Like, he was such an easy guy.

Exactly.

And it was just like, never once, because we didn't really cross paths during the regular season.

But then, you know, state meet.

Nothing but pleasantries.

Like, we were focused on the events we did because we wanted to win.

And we did win our first state championship.

He did what he did in a tremendous field, and that was wonderful.

And then we were at the Midwest meet of champions, where they take the seniors, and we go up against team Indiana and all stuff, and we're playing cards and just BSing everything.

It was just like, what was all that.

Like, it was a bunch of trolls.

Like, somebody at Ignatius thought it was funny to be like, no, he's gonna kick your ass.

Didn't care.

No one care.

We didn't care.

A bunch of other people did, but we didn't.

Right.

That's so interesting.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, I mean, I've.

And.

But like, the goal was always like, who's.

Who's gonna take down Mark's record?

And like.

So walk us through then the senior year.

Yeah.

Okay.

So senior year, kind of the goal was the state championship.

Overall, we knew we had enough underneath us.

And I say under.

I don't mean it that way, but like, you know, we had a bunch of rising sophomores.

We had people that we could, you know, complete a deep bench.

We had Ryan Franzinger, great thrower.

We knew he was going to get us big discus points.

4x8 was going to be taken care of as long as we were competent enough.

4x4 was very good that year.

And we had other pieces that were good.

So it was more about the team aspect in regards to my own personal journey.

I mean, it was.

And, you know, I know I'm sorry for everybody out there for some of the side conversations we had before this, but, you know, things that we discuss and just, you know, I was very happy that I was with my team most of the time.

I didn't, you know, bounce around all over the place.

I did do high school.

I did do.

I did the Nike Indoor Nationals in Landover, Maryland, which was a absolutely horrible 200 meter flat track.

Just tight turns.

It was horrible.

However, the meat director.

I don't know if Dathan.

I don't think Dathan was there, but Alan was definitely there.

And they brought south lakes for their DMR and I think Alan ran the 2 mile and they wanted me there for the 800.

There was Saeed Ahmed, who ended up being an all American.

Wow.

He was out of Matt.

He was out of Boston.

We were the same year.

I don't know if James was there or not, but there was a good 800 field.

Yeah.

And they approached, you know, Coach Kyle was like, hey, do you think Mark will run?

And it was like, it's been, you know, frigid, cold, crazy snow.

We've been doing, you know, we're shoveling off our track to get things done.

I don't know what he's going to run.

And so the race was interesting.

I went.

I went.

Well, it was really even.

I went 27, 29, 29, 27 for a 152 and ended up winning indoor nationals.

Geez.

And then we went to outdoor, and outdoor was a big reset.

We just went back to basics.

And the basics were not so much to get me ready.

I knew I was going to be ready, but it was to get my brother, who was a sophomore.

We had Mike Fernbach, who was a sophomore, and Dave Molina was also a senior.

To get them ready.

Yeah.

So it was a lot of group pace work, you know, starting at, you know, repeats at as slow as 80 pace.

We were going to do that for two weeks.

Let's be a metronome and let's just get that down.

Yeah.

Then we'll go to 75.

We'll do things to together just.

To just, you know, be together the whole time.

And we were running again.

You know, I keep saying, like, middling times, it was like, it was okay.

Now the 4x4 was a lot better.

That was a whole different story.

We had some really good 400 runners.

And so we were running well and ran sub 320 the entire year.

But what were you splitting typically for that 4 by 8, 4 x 4?

46 mids, maybe?

Yeah, 46 mid, 46 high.

I was.

I mean, I never really had the pop.

I was never.

Did you ever run an open four?

Oh, yeah.

Or.

Oh, I did that year.

It was.

Oh, man, it was a horrible day.

It was.

It was touted to be a bigger race than it was.

It was East Lake North Relays, I believe I want to say.

This is John Kelly, I believe was his name.

He won the Open.

He was a.

He was a kid whose family moved from Texas.

Okay.

To.

I believe it was Thomas Worthington, I believe.

I know it was a Columbus school fast that kid had.

He had pop and turnover.

And we were supposed to have kind of a little mini showdown.

It was supposed to be my, like, quote unquote speed work package for that week.

So I was supposed to run the four and the two.

And I want to say it was just beautiful East Lake weather with rain and just crazy wind.

So he handled me.

I.

I went 47.9, which was like, good.

But it was, you know, supposed to be a bigger race that way.

But that was my only open of that year for the four.

And then as we discussed, you know, there was like, we just kind of just floated through.

Floated through until championship season.

And then starting with.

We had the All Catholic meet in May at Walsh.

And then after that it was just lock in and go.

And we're able to put down some pretty good times all the way through.

So as you approach state that year, what were some bread and butter workouts you guys would do it for?

Like sharpening?

Yeah.

So Kyle.

And then we also had Doc Hype.

He worked in administration, but he ran for Jankura.

He was an Ignatius guy and he brought a lot of the Same things.

So strength packages were a lot of, like, kind of sandwich things, K's, eights, things like that.

But before the end of the year, it was a lot of threes and ones, short recovery, a lot of like, walk back, touch the line, go.

This was the time also where we did everything together.

But then toward the end, it would be all right, Dave, my brother Eric, Mike, go.

They would hold me for about three, four, five seconds.

I would go with baton in my hand and just chase them down on a 300 or something like that.

So, you know, a lot of sharpening, a lot of sharpening there with a lot of the shorter stuff.

But we did decent strength packages.

So we were.

I mean, I knew I could handle two days of.

I had to go four by eight hard.

Had to go four by four hard, then come back and then do eight and four the next day.

Yeah.

Did you ever transition to cross country?

I ran cross country.

Yeah, you did.

It was horrible.

Oh, wow.

What Was your fastest 5k?

1608.

That's not horrible.

Yeah, we.

I will, I will.

I will say this with the nicest way possible.

We had a brilliantly wonderful, nice man who was our coach, coaching.

Coaching schematics and how you did things.

I don't think it was the best.

There you go.

Yeah, it just.

It was kind of all over the place.

And you don't know what you don't know.

So I literally.

So after I won the state meet my sophomore year, we had, you know, conversations, and I played safety, so I played some varsity football sophomore year, and that would have been the way to go, but I would have had to bulk up to 190, 200 pounds, things like that.

And it was like, well, I'm not gonna run the 800 at that weight.

So we decided to go over to cross country.

And again, that was your junior year?

Yes, starting junior year.

So I ran two years across country and, you know, it was.

It was okay.

I just think.

I mean, basics that I think of now, like, you really trusted the fact that all of us were going to do our summer training.

None of us did.

First day, he's like, all right, we all did this.

We're going to do.

What's the most important part of a.

Of a 5k cross country race?

I don't know.

They're like the last 6, 10.

Yes.

The last half mile and that 0.1.

So that's what we're going to do.

We're doing repeats at Edgewater park the first day.

Kids are collapsing.

They're all dying.

I don't know what I'm doing.

Oh, that's great.

He literally told us we're going to peak three times this year.

We're going to get out of the gates, we're going to go to Cincinnati and show them what we're all about.

Then we go to Kettering for all Catholic, and then we'll be ready to go to hit the podium at State.

I'm just like, we're going to peak three times.

What's this guy talking about?

Yeah, so it was.

It was.

It was disjointed, but it was enough.

It was enough training.

It was enough just getting out there running.

Yeah, it was just.

Yeah, you did that.

You did whatever.

And you just knew this is over in, what, early November.

And then, you know, I'm in the hands of hype and chico and everything.

And it was like, leave the four by eight alone.

We're, you know, we're with you.

So what about that gap from, like, November to, like, running?

Yeah.

Indoor nationals.

What.

What did you guys do?

A lot of.

I played a lot of basketball.

Yeah.

In the rec center.

Like, I legitimately would not run from November to March.

No.

No.

Yeah.

No.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

No, I mean, like, that was just like, the thing.

It was like.

I mean, I actually numerous times got really jacked because I was.

I would always go to the gym and, like, lift and stuff, and I'd start the season, like, way overweight and strong.

No, we.

I think we started.

We would start very basic.

I think when we would come back from Christmas break.

Yeah.

So winter break would come and we would come back, we would meet, you know, people would kind of separate to the distance group.

And the sprinters.

And the sprinters would work on, you know, form drills, things like that.

A lot of core work, things of that nature.

Was it fun?

No, it was fun.

I mean, we used to just go.

We would run, hop off the bridge, and people would honk at us because it looked like we were jumping off the bridge to end our lives.

So we would jump off the bridge, run down Columbus Hill, and then we would just.

Just run by all the strip clubs and everything that were in the flats.

Perfect.

Or we would.

Or.

Yeah.

Or we would do the chicken run, where we would just run to Tower City, get free samples of chicken.

The Teriyaki chicken in the food court and just run back.

So that was.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, man, times are so simple back then.

Oh, it was.

I mean, you know, speaking of just comparatives, we.

We would have that and then you would listen to.

And we would talk to the.

The Lakewood team we were really close to, and it would be like, what did you guys do?

Oh, we did like 20 by 400 and all this stuff.

Like what you guys do, we're like, I don't know, we ran to Sakio, Japan and got some teri chicken and kind of like jog back and trading, you know, eating Annie Ann's pretzels or something.

So we did a Taco Bell run where.

Where we would do like an easy run to Taco Bell, order food and then run back to see who can make it without cramping.

Yeah, like Jojo's at Leonardo's.

Like, that was a big thing down.

In Akron thing, Jojo's.

You, like, packed stuff.

A couple, like dollars in your shorts for a couple of Jojos.

Yeah.

So it was.

It was fun.

I mean.

Yeah.

But to your point, until then, it was just relax, you know, there was a lot of other stuff going on.

I mean, you just.

We had break.

The weather was kind of crummy and like, occasionally would I go out there and maybe do a little bit of a jog or something, but nothing.

What you see now where it's just constant going, going, going.

There were definitely breaks in between.

So let's get to the.

Your senior year, the state final in the 800 in the record.

Walk us through that race and kind of the.

The actual meat itself, you know, the qualification or the winning the 4x8.

The 4x4 qualification.

And then the next day.

Yeah.

So the first one was the four by eight.

So four by eight.

We had two different strategies.

We had a plan A and a plan B.

Both were to have the end.

Same end result, and that was to win the 4x8.

But it was essentially how hard I was going to run in the 800 on that day.

So we would always.

Strongsville was our main rival in this one, and Strongsville would front load their first three guys to see if they could gap us enough to see if they just couldn't catch up.

And, you know, there was valid strategy.

So my coaching staff stood at the 300 hurdle mark and if I got the baton and ran by them, I would get an audio cue from them.

And it was.

I can't remember exactly what it was, but essentially it was go for the record, the state record at the time or just win.

Like shut it down and just win.

And so went through heard go for it.

So I ended up pushing harder.

So I went.

I think I split close to.

I think it was 148.4 on the 4 by 8 that day.

4x4 qualification was again our 4x4 was really good that year.

It was between us and Middletown.

They had a very good team as well.

Some.

I think they had two, at least two, maybe even three in the actual open that year.

So they were very stacked team.

And then I think they were very young too because I think like right after that they went on this crazy run in the 4 by 1 and 4 by 4.

So we qualified easily on the first day.

And then the next day came and the next day was essentially see what you can do.

Let's.

Let's break the record.

I was on the outside and the whole time as I brought up the 80s, 75, everything with it.

The whole goal was to be a metronome because no one was really going to go into that deep end with me because the goal was to go through in 52 to 52.5, be by yourself, push, push 4 to 5, get through the last lap and I take off.

I'm going, I'm going.

And you know the.

The Wonderful was it 3 turn stagger that we have in Ohio instead of the one turn and break.

So I'm out there and I keep looking on my inside and I can see somebody.

So I'm internally freaking out because I'm like am.

I just.

Do I just feel like garbage right now?

Like I think I'm moving quick enough but I really don't.

I don't know because people aren't usually with me right now.

And there was a young kid.

I wish.

Yeah, I wish I knew his name.

This is like the local 5k with the kids high on sweet torch are like running up front.

Yeah, I wish I knew his name.

Super nice kid.

We talked and he's from.

I believe it was Toledo Scott.

And he's right up there at the break line.

And so I'm just, you know, nice casual run the tangent, get into lane one and then I can hear, you know the 49, 50, 51, 52.

And then I was just like, oh, I feel bad for this kid.

Like I thought that more than like my second laugh.

He's with me on this one.

That's.

Come on, buddy.

We're gonna finish this together.

Yeah.

Like, I mean let's run this in if you, If.

If you do this, like, wow.

I mean, the gods shined upon you on this one.

It's like El Guerrouge's Mile.

When he broke the mile and that guy was like, right behind him.

He's like, what?

I didn't think this guy was going to be.

Yeah, I.

So then the second lap was just pushed through.

We had kind of our visual cues.

This was definitely one where I was.

Really wasn't racing people.

So we knew Dayton Stadium well enough, so it was like, where could I look at the stadium of.

Here's this landmark.

Here's this landmark.

I know, like, you know, we get.

Get about a 150 to go.

Here's the goal post.

Make your push there.

So push through.

Came through.

I believe it was.

What is it?

148.93, I believe it was.

So that was.

That was good.

And then we capped it off with a great run by.

We had another senior, Trevor Dewar, who finished, I believe, third in the 400.

And then we capped it off with a win in the 4x4 for our first ever team title, which was just really exciting.

Just to have that as the culmination of everything and being close, being favored some years, things not going our way, that actually putting it together over two days and having it happen and have that kind of just be my last little memory and my last little.

And I say this not to be over, but my last little gift to St.

Ignatius was also.

We just got you the team title.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What a great memory.

And that stood until.

When was it Plant that took it down?

Plant took it down.

Yeah.

So that was what, 22, 23.

23, 20, 22, 22.

And then.

Yeah, 22.

Yeah.

I mean, it was.

Every year I'll get someone who lives here in Ohio or some call, and it's.

It actually started.

I think the first one I remember was Vitucci from Xavier.

Oh, yeah.

And he was running.

He was running great times.

And I want to say that was the first one that, you know, people.

People called and even some of the college coaches that were just like, recruiting Ohio and everything that were just like, okay, you know, Sylvester, this is it.

There's good rumblings.

I think he split like 150.

I'm like, fine, like, go.

Go do it.

Yeah.

I mean, don't talk about me.

Yeah, don't talk about.

Just go do it.

And, you know, it.

It's.

It's a real thing.

Especially, you know, the.

The team aspect.

I saw a thread on Facebook just recently with those crazy four by eights and everything that just came out of regional.

This thing, it's one thing, you know, you have the races the one day but you have to bounce back the next day and do it.

So it's like, okay, so there was Batucci, there was.

Oh man.

The Cleveland Heights kid, Jared hall, that was another one.

And I've known Coach Holland for a very long time, so he was.

Yeah.

So he was just, you know, telling me and that they were close.

Frank Hayes was close.

He was what?

Sylvania, I believe.

And then K was close too.

I mean he kind of came out of nowhere.

Jake.

He got that low.

He, he out of nowhere at districts.

He ran 151.

Jeez.

And he was like, honestly he didn't realize he was that fast either until that point because he was running like 153, 154.

And then he just hammered at districts and then he was actually committed, fully committed to Ashland.

And then he decommitted after he did that and then all these schools came after him.

They're like, sorry, we can't offer you money right now because we're already loaded.

But if you come here.

But what's amazing is like, you know we say close like 151 to 148.

It's like, oh, it's.

You know what I mean?

Like it, it's like yeah, they're running fast.

Like let's just say that.

Right.

But it's not like sub 150, you know.

No.

And again, so going to Nick, I just saw the stuff he was doing and racing some of those miles and everything at Spire and his coach and I would just message over social media and I would just give a lot of props.

I was like, wow, like he's, he's strong.

Like I think this is.

You keep him strong, keep him healthy.

I think you have, I think he'll, I think he'll have it and he put it together now selfishly and I, I do appreciate some of my, my friends that you know, were at the meet and everything were just like, he's dropping out of the four by eight.

He's not reasonably, he's not running the four bait with his team so he can load up for the 800 to take out your record.

That doesn't count.

You ran two races for him.

Like no, it counts.

Like he went out there, he did what he did.

This is absolutely wonderful.

Can't be happier for him.

Yeah.

And so I actually never really, never really had conversations with him.

There was a slight, you know, a congrats and everything on the Ray Jeske show.

Like, a couple days later, Ray called me from when I was in California and was like, hey, would you jump on and everything?

We're gonna have him on.

So really nice kid.

He's doing tremendous things.

Just qualified for another NCAA final.

Yeah.

There Virginia Tech.

Heck of a, you know, watch him in the DMR.

I mean, I'm like, I was not anchoring the DMR in 353.

I mean, he's strong boy.

So nothing but great.

Nothing but further great success.

Success for that young man.

Yeah.

So you ended up at Tennessee?

I did, yeah.

So walk us through kind of that.

That part.

Who were you?

Were you teammates with Fama Glady and.

No.

So technically no.

So Fam graduated before I got there.

But he was.

He was still around training.

Okay.

Yeah.

And then was Matt Lap there when you were there?

He was, yeah, he was.

I went to Cairo School with Matlab.

Yeah.

What a random throwback.

I was thinking about that on the way to hear this.

Pennsylvania.

Yeah, exactly.

He.

He's out there in Pennsylvania practicing now.

Yeah.

So did you like Tennessee?

I did.

What was it?

What made you choose to go there?

Oh, great question.

So someone just asked me this recently.

I just looked at.

I knew again, after my junior year times, it was pretty much, you're gonna go.

You can pick wherever you want to go.

There weren't as many of those as you see now.

So how many were there, if you.

Don'T mind me asking?

So I want to say my junior year, I think there were three, maybe three or four.

My senior year, I was third in time.

So Allen actually ran 147 something.

Jonathan Johnson ran 148, two at the Texas state meet, and then I ran 148, seven at nationals.

So I think I had third fastest time in the country.

But James Hatch out of Colorado went to Arkansas, went 149.

Trent Rider out of Minnesota went 149.

He ran at Minnesota, I think C.

Ahmed went 149.

He went to Arkansas.

So there was.

There were a few more.

And then Ryan Hall, I believe, was like either 150 or 151that year.

So there was a.

There was a good crop.

So I kind of knew it was going to be kind of dealer's choice on this.

So the schools that recruited me and out of the gates, George Watts was the coach of Tennessee.

He Coached fam.

He helped coach Todd Williams, a bunch of those guys.

So he reached out first.

He really used the Ohio connection.

So for some of the old heads out there, the Ricky Pitmans and the Ron Addison's that were from Cleveland went to Tennessee and he was using that as.

As kind of the.

The.

The pitch.

And so that was.

That was my first one just taking calls.

The other one that was big was Ron Warhurst and Michigan.

And then after that it was Arkansas and Stanford were like kind of just the.

The short list.

So Gabe was in school then, right?

Gabe was in school.

Yeah.

That was again, the.

We can always say we can have a lot of fun with those.

Those like drum circles.

Yes.

Yeah.

Running naked and stuff.

Oh my gosh.

Those.

Like, I.

I mean, there's really not much on the Internet about that, but, like, he would always do runs.

That was intoxicating.

Yeah, it was awesome.

Just.

It was just a complete.

Just party when he was out there and they were just, you know, doing the 5K and everything.

And it was just like a big.

It was like watching a Grateful Dead concert.

But it was just so cool.

So I go my.

My three.

My three official visits were.

Tennessee was first and so first visit, first everything.

Hop on a plane, fly to Knoxville.

I'm going to the Tennessee Florida game.

I'm sitting next to Anthony Mo Munoz because his son's playing, you know, Michael from.

Would he go Coleraine or someone in Cincinnati.

He's playing for the Vols and looking around, there's a hundred some thousand people in orange.

It was.

It was really cool.

And I just really like the guys, the sprinters, hung out with the distance guys, the throwers.

Everything just seemed really team, like.

So that was my first one.

My second one was Michigan.

Michigan was.

It was a mixed bag.

My actual trip was Dathan Allen and myself on the same weekend.

And that is a who's who.

And so, yeah, so again, this was.

It was just, you know, not that I needed to be completely coddled or just completely just, you know, kissed up to.

But we would sit there and I remember one time we were at dinner and it was like, oh, you know, Dathan will like slowly move you up.

You'll do 90 to 100 miles a week and this and everything.

Allen maybe 70 to 80.

Then it was kind of like, Sylvester, we'll figure it out.

I was a 400, 800 guy.

I was like, I.

I'll do a modified Michigan there coach.

And so it was just kind of disjointed.

It was one of the Cool parts, though, was we're sitting in Ron's office and you.

He's looking at us and he's just like, well, guys, last week I had this.

This kid out of Canada, and I think he's going to be pretty good if I get him.

And you three, you four will break the world record in the dmr.

As for true freshmen, he's speaking about Nate Brand.

Oh, my gosh.

And so I'm sitting there, though, and like, that's cool to hear.

I mean, you're like, yeah, I can be a world record holder by next year.

And then I go, at the time, I'm like, well, crap.

I have the.

Either.

I didn't know exactly what Nate ran his junior year out of Canada, but, like, for the U.S.

i'm like, I had the fastest eight hundreds, but I would have to be the 400 guy on this.

Yeah, like, what are you going to put Dathan on the 400?

Like, I was like, where am I going to be on this thing?

So it was.

It was good.

It was a little bit more disjointed.

I felt.

I felt Michigan was a little bit more.

I don't know, but a little bit more segregated with like the sprinters and the distance guys.

I didn't get the same vibe and brotherhood.

I got a Tennessee.

And then my other visit was Arkansas, which again, on paper, was awesome.

Seneca Lassiter's picking me up from the airport.

You're, like, talking to him, and this is when he's still running and, you know, still doing his thing.

And, you know, I was like, wow, Seneca's picking me up.

That's cool.

And then you're driving around Fayetteville, Arkansas, in this movie, massive red pickup truck with John McDonald, just like you are.

Just in front of a legend, absolute legend.

But there was nothing to do there.

I was like, how am I going to get here?

How am I going to do anything?

Like, this is just a little too far out.

But the one thing that has stuck with me, there are a few conversations I have probably about three or four conversations that I can almost do verbatim that I can viscerally feel still.

And this one of them was, I'm 17 years old, sitting at, you know, John McDonald's office.

He's like, well, Mark, I'm not going to do an Irish accent.

Okay, guys, I'm not going to mess that up.

But he goes, where else are you looking?

And I said, well, essentially it's down to you, Tennessee and Michigan.

He goes, okay, good.

Well, a couple things of advice here.

One, I can't.

I'm not going to promise you anything.

Like, I'm not going to be like you.

Come here.

You're going to be an Olympian.

You're going to do this.

I can write workouts.

You have to do them.

You're the one who has to do everything.

But I can try to put you in the best spot.

Two, if you do not choose Arkansas, I want you to go to Tennessee.

I'm like, why?

It's like, because if I can't coach you, I'm coaching against you.

Oh, my gosh.

And I would see him.

This guy's awesome.

Wow.

What a.

And again, you're 17.

You have no idea, like, the power of like these.

The stuff he's saying and the mind stuff he's saying.

And he was just influential just throughout my time.

And he wasn't even my coach.

I mean, he would pull me aside.

I would see him at meets.

I would see him at SEC meets.

We would joke around, like, ah, you know, when I won SECs in 03, I was like, your boys are in trouble today.

I'm feeling good.

He was like, we would laugh.

He would find my mom and talk to my mom and just see how she was doing.

Sierra Pen relay, things like that.

Like, he was just super incredible.

And I was close to, you know, I was very close to a lot of the guys in the sec.

We had a nice little brotherhood.

But those are the things.

It was just like, don't go.

I want to coach against.

That's amazing.

I, I got to meet him quite a few times.

His niece was the.

She owned the running shoe store that I worked at in Atlanta when I was going to grad school.

Jeannie beaver and Gina McDonald.

And she had him over speaking a couple times.

And he.

This was before he passed and he was an amazing guy and had numerous dinners, just hanging out and catching up with stories with them.

But, like, he's just one of those guys, like, he kind of reminds me a lot of Joe V.

Hill too, where like, when you're in the room with them, like, they just take up all the air.

They're just.

There's so much energy and so much wisdom there and, you know, they're always going to say the right thing.

That will.

That's what was amazing about him.

The closest again for me because it was my event group and where I lived in middle, Middle distance.

Distance.

That was it.

I mean, you listen to stuff now with, you know, Holloway and Florida, that those are those people in the sprint world like you stand, you stand at attention and you listen with that.

What that man says.

Curtis Fry, you know, just, again, you know, just giving a lot of the SEC because of the people I interacted with at South Carolina had that stuff with how he did his men's program and some women's program programs and everything.

But for the distance world, John was just amazing.

Absolutely amazing.

So you go to Tennessee and I don't know much about Mark Sylvester after that.

And I, I, I purposely didn't dig into anything and look at anything so.

Well, thank you.

Thank you for not putting my name in the let's run message boards then.

No, and, and I've never been, I've never been that kind of person of just like tooling around those sort of things.

And, and you know, like I said, I literally the only thing I did in terms of prep for this was the IAAF site.

And I just remember you from high school because I was your same year.

I just remember every year while trying to watch somebody come anywhere near your record within two or three seconds of your record, and that's about it.

And I saw that you won knack act you 23.

Like that's it.

I did.

Yeah.

Tennessee was, I will never, I never use the word regret, never will.

It is a forming part of my life.

Good and all of the bad that also happened there.

But I still talk to my brothers that I ran with.

We still left our mark there.

So Tennessee is always going to be in my heart for that.

So go to Tennessee.

Little did I know that the team's fortunes were going to change because we had a.

So they were coming off the outdoor national championship when I entered there, so we were already riding high, pretty much being the number one rated track team in the country.

So there was, there was a good pressure in that I had very good leadership and they taught me why.

The why is like, why do we warm up the way we do?

Why we do certain things in preparation.

How do we handle something like the SEC meets or like you're not, you will have, you can say, yeah, okay, I get it.

I know, I know until you're in that, you have no idea.

And we're not just trying to go past, we're not just trying to go and do well at secs, but it's now, this is the, the standard.

We're trying to win another national championship.

So Justin, the sprint leadership Group, and then also my group that had some seniors.

Jabri Harris, who's coaching Azusa Pacific, Adrian Wheatley, who's at Ball State.

Like, they were the ones that really helped.

Yeah, lay down that foundation.

So indoor happens.

And, you know, I was running pretty well.

We did a lot of.

We didn't do a lot of mileage.

It was a lot of hill work.

So I assume they didn't have your own cross.

Cross.

I would.

You had to be on the team.

But I didn't race officially any of the races.

So again, to get around whatever the SEC hour rule was, I was a squad member, but I never did anything.

And then.

So we did a lot of hill work.

And then we would split from the cross team right around conference, because they would do conference, and then everything jumps up to 10k.

So then they would have theirs.

We would start to work down, then do, like, our fall testing.

I ended up splitting, like, 147, mid or low or something.

And it was like, okay, like, I'm in pretty good shape.

And so we go into nationals, get through the first round.

That's fine.

Finals.

Hey, we're gonna wear these cool black speed suits, and it's gonna look cool and everything.

And I was like, yeah, on you guys, I'll wear it, but I don't look that cool.

And so.

But results were good.

I mean, I was chasing Otakili Lakote, who was the NCAA champion out of South Carolina.

He was a fast starter.

Ways that I like to do my race, and it was just ride his behind and see what happens.

I was able to move well from 7 to 800.

I finished second, and I went 147, 41.

Indoor.

I finished second, and we won the national championship indoor.

And then, you know, pretty successful outdoor was, you know, running well, running well.

And then just ran into not enough real estate in the final, so finished sixth.

First place was Lakota at 1.45.1.

So there were, you know, six of us within a second of each other, just charging down the line.

But, you know, great learnings.

And I was like, well, I'll be back.

And, you know, this is how we do things.

And so that was good success.

But with that success, honestly, if you ask, like, what happened was the, I guess, lack of who I was.

Who was I comfortable being more than just this runner?

And also, you win a national championship, I don't care what the sport is.

At the University of Tennessee, a lot of things get opened to you, if you will.

So it was, you know, we're coming back, walking into the weight room, and a bunch of football players are sitting there, and they're like, oh, it's the white boy.

It's the white boy that ran the 800.

Like, you can do whatever you want.

It's Tennessee.

And I'm like, no, no.

They're like, you just won a national championship.

So bad habits.

Never, you know, frankly, never had to worry about a fake id.

Never had to worry about going in here.

And I never did any of that stuff in high school.

Like, yeah, I never drank.

I never did any of that.

And it was just opened up to being, like, the fun guy.

That was part of that.

So that eventually led to a lot of problems and downfalls there.

Yeah.

And did you continue racing, performing?

Oh, yeah.

I mean, I could have done a lot better, but, I mean, going to my sophomore year, my sophomore year, I was probably the fittest I ever was.

And I mean, I was going out a ton.

I mean, I was.

I mean, I say this, and I never say, this is, like, this is cool.

Because audience, it's not.

But, like, I went out, like, you know, rage partying the week before SECs.

I still went 146, 53.

Won the SEC championship, which was the fastest time in the country at the time.

Yeah.

And, you know, was doing that and burning the candle on both ends, ridiculously.

Yeah.

I mean, if.

If we're gonna sit there and just be like, you know, we're gonna have, like, any of the guests you've had there, especially.

I know you had Evie on here.

He's like, the goal setting.

I'm like, if the goal is like, I'm gonna be this.

It's like I was not following the rules or following what it would take to do this.

I just got away with it because I was that talented.

So a lot of bad habits, a lot of, like, long nights, which turned into, you know, I'm just gonna focus on training table and practice.

Like, there are classes I'm supposed to go to.

That's okay.

So there was just.

Again, I just.

My priorities were just way off, sunk lower and lower and didn't find the right outlets for help or just trying to break any of that.

Any of that vicious cycle.

So it just caught up to me.

When did it all come to a head?

Oh, yeah.

So I.

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