Shownotes
🛃 **Navigating Security & Rights**
We explore the maze of airport security enhancements and TSA inconveniences.
🔒 **Texas Legal Dispute & Constitutional Quandaries**
We dissect a Texas law enforcement dispute and the criteria for a law's survival amidst constitutional challenges.
📜 **Second Amendment Scrutiny**
What is the constitutionality of denying illegal immigrants the right to bear arms and consider the impact of such decisions on demographics mentioned in "the people" of the Second Amendment?
🏭 **The Intel Challenge & Manufacturing Concerns**
Intel’s manufacturing dilemmas, touching upon governmental regulations and talent shortages. We also outline the implications of DEI policies and compare national security interests tied to domestic production—matters with deep repercussions for our state's economy.
👩⚖️ **Litigation Limelight**
RFK Junior's legal actions against Washington over COVID censorship bring us to broader discussions of legal precedent and civil rights.
🚔 **Crime Awareness: Word of the Day – "Jugging"**
📖 **A Nod to Wisdom & Scripture**
🌍 **Global Context: War, Movies, and National Strength** - Is Tom Hanks the answer?
Memorable Moments
12:30 Unconventional candidate seeks change, shuns party politics.
15:22 Confidence in border control leads to violence.
18:13 Supreme Court declines to stay Texas immigration law.
20:24 Texas law enforcement enforces abortion law.
24:53 Judge debates gun rights, legal standards' impact.
27:13 TSA introduces self-service screening at Vegas airport.
31:38 In Ohio, many struggle to define gun bans.
34:17 People cling to ideology without thinking critically.
38:05 Crimes committed with mental health issues.
39:57 Defending individuals in difficult criminal cases is challenging.
43:09 Imparting morality into job makes representing difficult.
47:23 Government regulations push tech industry overseas, unbalancing power.
50:26 Issue with DEI; CHIPS strategic in military.
55:27 Reflection on guilty vs innocent in court.
56:00 Insufficient evidence, what about guilty and innocent?
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Stephen Palmer is the Managing Partner for the law firm, Palmer Legal Defense. He has specialized almost exclusively in criminal defense for over 26 years. Steve is also a partner in Criminal Defense Consultants, a firm focused wholly on helping criminal defense attorneys design winning strategies for their clients.
Norm Murdock is an automobile racing driver and owner of a high-performance and restoration car parts company. He earned undergraduate degrees in literature and journalism and graduated with a Juris Doctor from the University of Cincinnati College of Law in 1985. He worked in the IT industry for two years before launching a career in government relations in Columbus, Ohio. Norm has assisted clients in the Transportation, Education, Healthcare, and Public Infrastructure sectors.
Brett Johnson is an award-winning podcast consultant and small business owner for nearly 10 years, leaving a long career in radio. He is passionate about helping small businesses tell their story through podcasts, and he believes podcasting is a great opportunity for different voices to speak and be heard.
info@commonsenseohioshow.com
Recorded at the 511 Studios, in the Brewery District in downtown Columbus, OH.
Copyright 2024 Common Sense Ohio
Transcripts
Alright. So it is 32224. And I guess because it's 32224, I will read something from Proverbs 321. That is Proverbs 3 verse 21. Again. My child, Norm, don't lose sight of common sense and discernment. Hang on to them for they will refresh your soul. They're like jewels on a necklace.
Steve Palmer [:They keep you safe on your way, and your feet will not stumble. So this is what we bring to you folks week in week out here at Common Sense, Ohio, where you can check out all sorts of great stuff. And, you know, not to compare us to Proverbs, but we at least try to bring common sense. And you go to commonsenseohioshow.com, where we come at you with a common sense approach from Ohio, at all sorts of stuff, news, and special interest stories, legal cases every now and then, in Norman, Texas today. Norm, you're you're in by phone because apparently, there's no common sense down there to get Internet in rural Texas. What's going on?
Norm Murdock [:Well, they, apparently run their entire infrastructure over, barbed wire. So
Steve Palmer [:Right. The coyotes have cut the cut the lines. Yeah. Well, look. We are brought to you from Texas, from the studio right here at channel511.com, by Harper Plus Accounting, and they are in the throes of it. They are in the thick of it. They are in the middle of it. Whatever analogy you wanna use or stupid metaphor, cliche you wanna use, it's tax season, and they have already taken care of my tax stuff.
Steve Palmer [:Why? Because I work with them all year, and they had all my documents. I got them over to them. Not only are my business tax returns filed timely well before actually, well before March 15, my personal tax returns are done too. Now all that's left is the shouting, which is me squirming, shouting, screaming at uncle Sam while I write the check on April 15 to pay off the blood money.
Brett Johnson [:It's funny you say that because I haven't got a phone call to that same company right after this show.
Steve Palmer [:Right. Get your stuff done. Done. And we're still in March.
Norm Murdock [:I
Steve Palmer [:know. Imagine that. It feels
Brett Johnson [:really good.
Steve Palmer [:For you business owners out there who every year you're like, I have to extend it till October, not this year.
Brett Johnson [:Oh.
Steve Palmer [:Not next year if you got Harper Plus Accounting. So our accountant could be yours, Harper Plus Accounting. So we typically, launch off with a World War 2 fact of the day. Norm, the last couple, I've I've tried to find some analogous, stories, and I think I've done that again today, March 22 1940. German u boats sank several neutral ships. That's the factoid that I have found. So I listen to, every now and then, I listen to competing podcasts, not that we're in competition with, Ben Shapiro over at the Daily Wire. But I listened to him yesterday, and he talked about what, sort of what causes wars and his his, hypothesis.
Steve Palmer [:And I've I think we've said this here too. It's like when he said it differently, but the way I always put it, when when there's a vacuum in the United States of America is not out there as a, force in the world, then the vacuum gets filled with all sorts of other stuff, and it's always almost always bad. And he was sort of saying the same thing and gave a history lesson all the way back. And he ended the history lesson with modern times with the Houthis sinking, neutral ships. But he sort of made the point that China, Russia, and Iran have sort of formed an alliance, and their ships, ironically, are not getting sunk, but ours are. And it sort of takes me back in 1940. We weren't in the war yet, and U Boats were out there sinking neutral ships, and we had sort of taken a position of, I don't wanna call it, reclusivism. Is that a word? Maybe.
Steve Palmer [:But, you know, we we I think the United States, by and large, didn't wanna enter the war, and we've talked about this in the last several weeks. And, because of that, there was weakness in the world, and and the Germans could get away with doing stuff. Now we certainly back then didn't have the navy that we have now or the military might that we had now. But I guess the the analogy is the same. It's like when when the warriors out there in the world doing evil start sinking neutral ships, I mean, that's a hop, skip, and a jump from a hot war that involves multiple nations here, even a world war. And, that's why I thought it was an interesting fact that in 1940, that stuff was going on, and the U Boats were out on patrol, sinking ships. So anyway, that's my World War 2 fact today. Norm, you almost always have more to add than what I can.
Steve Palmer [:So even in Texas, I'll let you talk.
Norm Murdock [:Well, the, the amount of piracy also in addition to, you know, nation states or rebellious armies like the Houthis, taking action in the Red Sea, You know, there's piracy off of Somalia, the, you know, the famous Tom Hanks movie, where the, where the Maersk container ship was taken over by pirates and
Steve Palmer [:Yep.
Norm Murdock [:Eventually, he was rescued. The Moluccan Straits, you know, down in the, in South well, not South China Sea. What is it the Indian Ocean? But, anyway, the straits, that you cannot avoid if you're gonna go to, say, Thailand or, steam through, to Indonesia, Those are very treacherous waters. And, of course, China's building building, these islands out the military aircraft carrier islands, basically, land islands in the Pacific. And there's this move to declare more and more international waters as sovereign territory by either rebels or nation states. And, we now have the world's 2nd largest navy, to China. So no. What you say is absolutely true.
Norm Murdock [:There is a vacuum. There is a perception of weakness by the unite you know, of with the United States. And, you know, famously, Theodore Roosevelt steamed the great white fleet because our ships were were white at that time. And, and during his administration, he sailed them, you know, all around the world as a show of American strength and power, and then that reverted back during the depression to a weak state. And, as you say, Steve, look what happened.
Steve Palmer [:So Yeah. And, well, 2 things to add. 1, maybe Tom Hanks is the key because he defeated the pirates. And then later on, he made another movie, which I thought was phenomenal. It was Gray Wolf. Yeah. Of shows. You could only see it on Apple TV, which I don't have Apple stuff, but my son got a 7 day trial subscription, so we watched it, just last weekend, in fact.
Steve Palmer [:So
Norm Murdock [:Was that was that greyhound maybe, or was it grey wolf?
Steve Palmer [:Grey wolf or greyhound. Grayhound. Yeah. It was it was a gray animal. He
Norm Murdock [:was a he was the captain of a submarine hunting Yeah. Vessel, a a, a He
Steve Palmer [:was in a destroyer. Battleship Yeah. He was in a destroyer. Yeah. Escorting convoys. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. That's it. Alright. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. So Don't don't give it away.
Norm Murdock [:Don't give away the ending.
Steve Palmer [:Well, they fight they fight German u boats.
Norm Murdock [:Damn. Yes. They do.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. It's a great glorious fashion. It's a great movie. So yeah. But Tom Hanks is the key. So if we get him involved right now, maybe he can solve all these problems. I doubt it.
Norm Murdock [:For sure.
Steve Palmer [:But at any rate, the, the other point I was gonna make is is is a broader point in about strength and weakness. How often in our daily lives does it does is it effective in our businesses, in our relationships, in our interaction with even total strangers when you, portray weakness? It's almost always bad. In fact, I can't think of any time when it's good, whether you're playing a board game, whether you're playing poker is a great example because if you play weak in poker, the Sharks will just eat you alive. And, you know
Norm Murdock [:So, Steve, you you brought up Proverbs. And I I will admit, one of the most confusing aspects of course, I was raised Catholic, so I call it catechism. But one of the most confusing things to me, and I and as an adult, I still don't have it figured out, was, Jesus's admonition to turn the other cheek. I never got that. I I I it it's it's beyond my can to understand really what he meant because that is an intentional display of weakness. And and you're right. In a world of men that are, evil and greedy and, destructive, I'm with you. No display of weakness display strength at all times.
Norm Murdock [:But but turning the other cheek, I you know, how would that work if if, say, you know, they're coming to take your family middle of the night to a concentration camp. You know? How does
Steve Palmer [:I I think, Norm. I I think, Norm, that that that has been I've heard this. Now I am no scholar of history, but I do follow I I have a bible study that I follow, and, and I just Googled it too. And I'm not gonna go into detail here, because I don't want to do it injustice. But my understanding is that, metaphor is related to stuff that would happen in court. So you would get slapped in court, and you would turn the other cheek and get the other one slapped or something like that. It's it's not necessarily it's true. I or at least that's what I think.
Steve Palmer [:So I I think yeah. I think there's something more to it than it just means let people take advantage of you and beat you up.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Well, and if you look at the and if from what I understand too, the the the commandments, maybe kinda going religious on this, but, you know, thou shall not kill. We actually translate that improperly. Thou shall not murder.
Steve Palmer [:Thou shall not murder. Right. So So there are times when you have to kill. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. So, you know, again, we're kinda mixing old and new testament situation here, but I I agree, Norman. It is kinda one of those, wow. Okay. And and that's what the bible is. It's just of this deep reading of going, what does this mean?
Steve Palmer [:You have to have some historic context for
Brett Johnson [:You do. You're right.
Steve Palmer [:You do. And and there's something like I said, I'm probably doing an injustice, and I'm sure there's some, bible scholars or history scholars that could help me out with that. But, in fact, I'd be love to hear it in your comments. But there's something more to that than just get your ass kicked by bullies. Mhmm. You know, that it Yeah. Yeah. You know, it it's, it doesn't mean just that.
Brett Johnson [:Well, and, you know, Jesus had his moment in the in the temple. He did stop it and and got angry. So, I mean, god got angry. Yep. You know, in in essence. So but yeah. You know?
Steve Palmer [:In in in the Garden of, when he he actually got emotional too. Remember? He's like, you know Yeah. He wanted his people around him. I mean, anyway, we're going down a bible study. We don't wanna do that.
Brett Johnson [:But but, you know, but I think it's all points that make sense. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:There yeah. He showed his human side. And and I guess that's relevant because next week is good Friday.
Brett Johnson [:So Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's true. Anyway, we're always timely.
Norm Murdock [:Steve, I I I would give up I would give up all my earthly treasure to travel back in time with you when Jesus giving that sermon and you raise your hand in the back of the crowd and say, Jesus, does that mean does that mean you gotta get your ass kicked by bullies?
Steve Palmer [:Just curious. Just Alright. Alright. Just curious.
Norm Murdock [:That would probably be
Brett Johnson [:a moment Jesus kinda takes the stick and starts drawing in the sand in the dirt, and then the message is there again.
Steve Palmer [:You know, it's whether
Brett Johnson [:I'm not really gonna answer you, Steve, but come on over here, and I'll write it down for you.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. No.
Brett Johnson [:For sure. Oh my god.
Steve Palmer [:I would be yeah. Yeah. I would I would be like the annoying guy in law school that asks all the nauseating questions about every possible, gotcha that you could have.
Norm Murdock [:And you
Brett Johnson [:were on you'd been on the shortlist for an apostle, but you just screwed yourself up, didn't you? You there. You know, that's Steve, you asked too many questions.
Norm Murdock [:Right. Right.
Steve Palmer [:Oh, my god. They just
Norm Murdock [:They're killing me.
Steve Palmer [:So anyway, I or have you where is that in the so where is that in these studies, Lord?
Norm Murdock [:Well, speaking of people having their asses kicked, our guest, Bernie Marino, several months ago, one of our guests. And and, of course, he, you know, we got, senator Vance elected because he appeared on our show. So maybe Bernie's on his way to defeating Sherrod Brown, but Bernie defeated, Matt Dolan and, Frank LaRose well, rather resoundingly with, a little bit more than 50% of the vote, I believe.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:And, go ahead.
Steve Palmer [:No. No. No. What what I like about this is that his platform was one of not necessarily a political party as much as I'm just tired of doing it the way everybody always does done it, you know. And I I think if anything hurt him, I I don't even know if this hurt him, but he had a Trump endorsement, which, I don't know if that helped or hurt. But I think his popularity at least when he was here talking to us in the studio, he was a very common sense practical guy, and I he didn't seem like a guy who would bend to the will of party politics as much as he's a guy that's like, let's get this done. We're gonna roll up our sleeves. We're gonna figure out the best way to do it.
Steve Palmer [:And so often, I think his best way to do it was when he was talking to us, less is more. You know, you can't you can't control the forces of nature. We We have to operate within them and, and create the proper incentives instead of trying to just use power and money to fix problems. So, anyway, I I think it has more to do with that kind of attitude than it does. He's a hardcore, quote, Trumper or MAGA guy. Mhmm. At least that's what I hope. Because he's not.
Steve Palmer [:He doesn't seem like that to me.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. He's, interestingly, people might remember from the show. Do you guys remember him? No.
Norm Murdock [:From Columbia. And he said his superpower is that he cannot be eligible to become president. And so what he does in the senate would be purely sorry about the semi tractor in the background here. I'm at a racing track, people. So he, can't be president. So he he he, I think, means by that is that he will not have ulterior motives or be blocking for some kind of national, you know, profile. And he's also the chairman of a term limits organization. So he is pledging at most if elected.
Norm Murdock [:They only serve 3 two terms and then leave, you know, public office. Yeah. It's, it's refreshing.
Steve Palmer [:It it is. I mean, look. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. And it looks like he's setting himself up to, I I I don't wanna say he can ever be fully immune to that, but he's he's at least putting safeguards in place where, he can be rescued from it if necessary or rescue himself from it if necessary. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Yep. Little, you know, picking up on your power vacuum, see, here in Texas, yesterday, there was a violent rush across the border through the razor wire about 200 people. You know, I obviously cannot, detect, the ethnicity, you know, for whatever relevance that may bring to bear, but they did not look like, Mexican, immigrants. They look like they were from, other parts of the, of the world. And they went right at National Guard
Norm Murdock [:Group who were holding rifles
Norm Murdock [:and seemed to be very confident that those would not be used, and they just blew right through the fence and into the United States. And then down in, Florida, orientation boats, you know, again, people with weaponry are landing on the beaches in Florida, and DeSantis has deployed more national guards. So this debate about whether the constitutional language, citing an invasion, or or not? You know, is it an invasion or is it not? Well, now now it's ratcheted up into actual violence, to enter the country. So, I I think it lends credence maybe to those 2 governors who are deploying their national guards, respectively, because the federal government is, there's a vacuum there. They're not they're not enforcing the border. So, it kinda fits in with your, theme, Steve.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. It's because I hopefully, it doesn't get to the point we have to have a National Guards person, man, woman, whatever, or any any military have to die for this,
Norm Murdock [:and then
Brett Johnson [:it changes our mind about it.
Steve Palmer [:It's yeah. No. No. No. That's right. And and I think this is, you know, we talk a lot about the law of unintended consequences when people start getting a little bit more desperate. You know, there there's people pouring on both sides. Right? So the people who didn't make it in yet, the illegal immigrants who haven't crossed yet, now they're gonna be even more desperate because they probably see that the hour may be coming that Right.
Steve Palmer [:They can't do it.
Brett Johnson [:It's 11th it's 11th hour right now.
Steve Palmer [:Right. So you're gonna have this surge. I'm guessing. I this is not factual. This is my prediction.
Brett Johnson [:Sense.
Steve Palmer [:So and then you've got the situation on the other side where Biden and crew are doing nothing about it, but now Texas is. But they don't have the power and force of the federal government, to act like the federal government would act. So it they're gonna show some force, but it's not gonna be the kind of force that, I guess, the danger would be rather, that it's not gonna be the kind of force that the federal government could employ to actually stop this thing. And, you know, it can be stopped and probably could be stopped rather quickly, But the the half measure is gonna lead to more desperation on both sides. And then like you said, Brett, you end up with some tragic somebody gets shot, a serviceman
Brett Johnson [:or an immigrant
Steve Palmer [:or something. You know?
Brett Johnson [:Totally unnecessary.
Steve Palmer [:And, you know, this is why when you let your kids run the house, that's when, they cut themselves by playing with knives or they shoot themselves by playing with guns. You can't let the inmates run And, you know, our our government is built on some of this stuff where you've got to have law and order, but not too much. And, you know, there's this careful balance between freedoms and and rules of law. And here, it's gone on the border issues. It's just gone out the window. I mean, it's a free for all.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Yeah. There there is a thing called senate bill 4 that the Texas legislature passed and, governor Abbott signed, And it's been up to the Supreme Court for a hearing on a stay, and, the Supreme Court, would not stay it. But a a right after they issued the decision not to stay it, which would have let the the Texans go ahead and, arrest illegals and deport them. It would allow state courts Yep. Under senate bill 4 to deport, a federal circuit judge or a panel, put a a stay using a different theory. So this is getting, like, as you say, Steve, it really is a federal power even though the constitution does not use the word immigration in the constitution, uses naturalization, but not immigration. And so the Supreme Court, I think, is sort of at sea on what exactly is the federalism stance, involving immigration? Is it a state power? I don't think it's ever really been hashed out.
Norm Murdock [:Or is it solely limited to the feds? Well And,
Steve Palmer [:I think it's important to it's important to sort of break down a little bit what's going on because when people talk about the Supreme Court permitted it or, I've I've been reading articles here even this morning about it about the Supreme Court action in the 5th the US, the 5th Circuit, US District. I keep saying district. The 5th Circuit is the is the appellate state or US Federal Court, the US Appellate Court that, that permitted law after the US Supreme Court decision. But what we're talking about, folks, is not whether the law is constitutional. We haven't gotten that far yet. The question is whether or not, the law should be in place while we figure out whether the law is constitutional. So the the the state and the feds are going back and forth asking for injunctions or the feds are saying, look, we want an injunction. We want a court order that says, Texas is not allowed to enforce this law until we get a decision on whether it's constitutional or not.
Steve Palmer [:And Texas is saying, no, we wanna be able to enforce this law while we figure out whether it's constitutional or not. It's up to the courts to figure out whether it's constitutional or not. So what we have so far is a bunch of proceduralism going back and forth, determining whether or not the law is gonna stay in effect until the US Supreme Court gets a hold of it and finally renders a decision. That said, one of the criteria in fact, one of the key criteria to whether a stay is issued or whether the law is permitted to remain intact is whether the law or whether the, the party, trying to promote the law here in Texas has a likelihood of success on the merits. So one of the criteria to determine whether an injunction will issue or a state law issue is whether Texas is the law is gonna be constitutional. Well, the US Supreme Court was gonna let the law remain intact. That that that's not a definitive ruling, but it's a bit of a telegraph. And now I haven't read the 5th district or 5th circuit decision yet rather, to see what their their other angle is.
Steve Palmer [:But this is gonna jostle around like this for a while. And this is exactly what we're talking about, guys. There's an old you know, when when you have bad lawyers, for instance, this is not that the lawyers I need to cite here are bad, but when you have bad lawyers, it tends to make bad law. When you have bad facts, it makes bad law. And the the vacuum here has created bad facts. You've got you've got people arguing about something that should never have to be argued about. Right? It's it's stupid. Everybody sort of knows implicitly that it's the federal government's job to protect the borders.
Steve Palmer [:And Biden in a political jostling move trying to please too many people is choosing not to do that. In fact, he's he's circumventing it. He's flying people in to avoid, detection or to avoid, news coverage that he's actually letting people pour over the borders. So it's like by doing that, he's creating bad, facts, and that's gonna lead to these weird litigation, arguments that, the US Supreme Court is gonna have to sort of sort out. And it's sloppy. If anybody's ever played pool, billiards and against somebody who like your kid or something, and they don't they're not good at all. And I'm not good at pool, but, you know, I know the game. It creates a sloppy table.
Steve Palmer [:And when you have a sloppy table, the game tends to drag on and on and on, and it can't get resolved and nobody can win because there's balls everywhere. And it's just it's sort of a mess. When when you when you don't play, when you play sloppy, it results in sloppy results. I said results twice, but yeah. Yeah. I'll take it.
Norm Murdock [:That's that's that's excellent analysis. Thank you for that. That that's really that's good stuff. I I I guess what is what is so tragic is that while while all these angels are dancing on the head of a pen, You know? We've got National Guard people that are in real jeopardy, you know, when armed immigrants are either charging or landing on beaches. I mean, you know, we this this needs to be figured out quickly, and it seems like it it as you said, the pool table is in disarray, and, it's just another disappointing aspect of America in, you know, 2024 that we don't have our act together as a country. Yeah. We're being taken advantage of. It's just terrible.
Steve Palmer [:Right. Well and then speaking of armed immigrants, I've gotten, like, 50 texts this week because I think it was, who was the district judge that, ruled on the constitutionality of a federal law prohibiting an illegal immigrant from possessing or owning firearms. And, I forget what circuit that came out of or what district that came out of. But, that judge anyway said, I think it was an Obama appointee, said, no, the law is unconstitutional, violates the second amendment under Bruin, etcetera, because, there the it it violated, the legal immigrants' right to bear arms. And this brings up some more constitutional nuances here about, who are because the second amendment protects the people, quote, the people. And, you know, there's gonna have to be a definition of what the people means. Does that include, immigrants? Does it include foreigners? Does it include illegal immigrants who are, by definition, committing a crime, by being in the country? And is that a crime that would be sufficient to strip them away of a right to bear arms in our country? In other words, does the second amendment protect illegal immigrants? This judge anyway says yes. In a in in sort of this apparent paradoxical, politically, confusing, application of the second amendment.
Steve Palmer [:On the one hand, it would seem that this judge would be ideologically opposed to the Bruin decision as it is and, in favor of gun control. On the other hand, this judge permitted, legal immigrants to bear arms. What I love about this is is the debate. I I love it when you can look. Taking me taking both sides of this for a second. I always like to take these legal standards and reverse them. So what like, if you're a second amendment, advocate and you say everybody should have a right to bear arms, then you have to sort of reverse and say, alright, what about illegal immigrants? And at the same time, I'm making as a second amendment advocate arguments, such as those with felony convictions, should not be stripped of their gun rights or those, you know, there's certain felonies that you that we would argue would violate the new second amendment jurisprudence because we're pushing the bounds of the new constitutional standards. This is what advocates do, and this is what creates common law as as the law gets kicked down the road, like, sort of like a, a bouncing soccer ball going side to side, figuring out how the standard is ultimately gonna play out.
Steve Palmer [:We get to watch that in real time. So now we've got the 2nd amendment sort of reversed on the 2nd amendment advocates saying, okay, 2nd amendment guru. Now we're gonna give that right to illegal immigrants. What say you? And, I you know, I'm I'm not gonna I'm not commenting on whether I'm in favor of that decision or not in favor of that decision. But I am in favor of the debate because that's what creates ultimately the proper legal standards.
Brett Johnson [:And I I love that getting granular about what does people mean. Mhmm. That that so Right. You you take it one way or the other. It's like, okay. So, people can meet. Let's say it it means anybody that's physically on our on our land. Yep.
Brett Johnson [:Then all of a sudden, like, well, so are does that overturn federal prisoners being able to vote?
Steve Palmer [:That's right. So well I mean, there
Norm Murdock [:are a
Brett Johnson [:lot of I I don't know if that No.
Steve Palmer [:No. No. No. You're right. So as a Yeah. So if you have a right to vote so it it it throws into question
Brett Johnson [:Lot of things.
Steve Palmer [:All these standards in the Bruin case at New York. The US Supreme Court says we're looking at the history text and tradition of the second amendment to determine whether, a law via is, passes second amendment muster. So what's the history text and tradition say about illegal immigrants having guns? I mean, that's gonna be the question I would presume that the US Supreme Court is gonna have to answer as this thing goes up the appellate ladder.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. And Yeah. But, hey, on a on a There was a
Norm Murdock [:Oh, great.
Norm Murdock [:Go ahead.
Steve Palmer [:Go ahead.
Brett Johnson [:I was gonna say on a on a I don't know if you saw this or not. And this case is kinda tangential tangential with what we're talking about, but a couple weeks ago, there's self checkout comes to airport security. The 1st TSA self-service screening system in the US opened up at Harry Reid Airport in Las Vegas. So the first TSA self serving screen, opened opened in Vegas. Pre check passengers can bet on getting to the gates with greater, speed by scanning themselves and their bags while minimizing interactions with TSA agents. It's a 6 mile 6 month trial program. And it it basically is so you don't have to deal with TSA agents.
Steve Palmer [:Interesting.
Brett Johnson [:So so pendulum is swinging. Mohammed.
Norm Murdock [:Just just like Mohammed Atta on 911. Right? Yeah. No TSA agents.
Brett Johnson [:Unbelievable. Love it. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Right. And I'm not advocating that we have to go through this check at all, but that's It's security failure by and large. Exactly. But it was major.
Brett Johnson [:We gotta you gotta take your shoes off, build off, you know That's our favorite thing. Drop your drawers.
Steve Palmer [:We gotta do something.
Brett Johnson [:You gotta do something. But now all of a sudden, we don't wanna deal with TSA agents. This is such a hassle. You can pay your way to get through this.
Steve Palmer [:You can pay
Norm Murdock [:where you
Steve Palmer [:get through, but I think it's probably also mostly budget. There's probably not enough TSA agents, and we can't afford them.
Brett Johnson [:Some of it. So, you know, I I it'd be interesting to see if this comes to Columbus. I mean, let's is it coming to Ohio, you know, after 6 months? I in 2025, this will be something to kinda see. It's like, okay. Maybe we don't have to deal with this crap anymore, you know, that to a certain degree. Unbelievable.
Norm Murdock [:And yet as I'd love I'd love, Brett, how you, how you how you raise this subject because just this week, Dana Carvey, apologized to Sharon Stone for a 1992 skit on Saturday night live where he and, I think Kevin Nealon, they were 2, airport security guys, and and they kept having her stripped clothing off until she was down to panties and a bra. And and he said, oh gosh. We would be arrested now if we did that. Well, I mean, I
Steve Palmer [:I gotta tell you, though. That kid is freaking hilarious. Yeah. I I don't yeah. Yeah. Politically correct or not, it was damn funny.
Brett Johnson [:But, you know, those sorts of things are are markers in time. We need those markers in time Yeah. Of just how silly, how stupid things
Steve Palmer [:Have become.
Brett Johnson [:Have become
Steve Palmer [:Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Back then or whatever. Right. Times change. This apology stuff.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. I mean, well, how's that change anything? And by the way, was she not a consenting adult in the skit? Right.
Norm Murdock [:Exactly. Right? Right. I mean, come on.
Steve Palmer [:So foolish. Yeah. You know? So foolish.
Norm Murdock [:So, going back to your second amendment stuff, there is a senator from Louisiana named John Kennedy, not to be confused with the late president. And senator Kennedy is on the senate judiciary committee, and, of course, they they, you know, advise and consent on the district court and appellate court nominations from the administration. So Biden put up this district court judge, from the 7th for the 7th circuit. She's a district judge within that circuit, and, her name's Nancy Maldonado. She wrote a brief for the Brady Center, advocating a ban on assault weapons in a in a Supreme Court decision, and, he started to quiz her about it. And at first, she said she just signed it. She didn't write it. And he he, being a lawyer himself, brought out, well, wait a minute.
Norm Murdock [:When you sign a brief, you're certifying that those are your opinions and you're you're you're, you're lending your expertise to the court, within that brief. And she she said, yes. I guess you're right. And and then he went on to ask, yeah, because he answered yes. And and then he he he went on to quiz her about, well, what is an assault weapon, you know, since you're an expert on it? And, of course, she could not name the 3 aspects that Norm rattled off in a previous show about exactly 100% what an assault weapon is, but whatever.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. She had no clue. It was it was complete cluelessness. I I saw that clip.
Brett Johnson [:Complete cluelessness. But she wants to take it
Norm Murdock [:away from everybody. Right? But she has no idea what it is. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:I have had this conversation with people with boots on the ground here in Ohio, people with boots on the ground everywhere I go when whenever this kind of thing comes up, I ask them to defend or to, define rather, what guns they wanna ban. And they're they can't people can't I'm not gonna say everybody. Most people can't offer any any sensible definition, which, you know and we've talked about this in the legal system before, guys. Like, if you can't define something, then you can't enforce it. You know, like, things we have to have concrete reality in the world. It's sort of like back to our proverb. Like, you have to live with some standard of of, of commonality with people. Some whether it's a moral standard, whether it's a legal standard, you've got to be able to understand what it is so you can not only enforce it, but people can live within the bounds of it.
Steve Palmer [:So if you just say assault weapon and really what they're saying is guns that look scary because we don't like guns anyway, and then they're just saying, well, we don't like any guns. It it quickly unveils the masquerade over the agenda.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Because an assault weapon can be anything because you you're it's by definition you're going to assault someone.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Use a weapon to assault somebody. That's an assault weapon.
Brett Johnson [:Right. Maybe maybe better definitions.
Steve Palmer [:Or are they gonna define those terms as a certain type of
Brett Johnson [:and you can do that. Please do that. That's fine. I am all about that because I I yeah. I am and yes. I'm I I think you should be allowed to have a a weapon, but but but there are some in my mind going, you need it, though, but I know you can have it. I know you can buy it.
Steve Palmer [:What people start to do, though, is they they then assault weapon ban becomes a euphemism for we're gonna ban everything we don't like. And that is like I've I've heard people say, well, the ones that can just shoot over and over, and I've even heard, what's the what's the show with Whoopi Goldberg? I heard these idiots talking about The View. The View.
Norm Murdock [:The View.
Steve Palmer [:I heard these morons yapping about this one time, and and they they were saying they were talking about how it was the Joy Behar is her name. The the blonde.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Yeah. And she was saying, wow. You can't even use the like, you couldn't even use an AR 15 on a deer. David ruined the meat. And I'm thinking, it's a it's a 22 caliber bullet. Right? You you wouldn't use it on a deer because it might not kill it.
Norm Murdock [:That's right. Right?
Steve Palmer [:It's like If
Norm Murdock [:you wanna ban the truly deadly weapons, our our dad's, you know, 30 odd 6 deer hunting rifle, bolt action. Hey, man. That'll blow a hole for you, you know, the size of a softball.
Steve Palmer [:Right. Right. I mean, look, the 300 win mag that I use when I go big game hunting yeah. If you're gonna ban a dangerous gun, like, that's the one that'll ruin the meat, but she's talking about the 22 caliber. And it's like
Norm Murdock [:She's unbelievable.
Steve Palmer [:It's just like it it just shows how ignorant these people are. They they cling to an agenda. And this is you know what? The the this is the core of what we're trying to do here, guy. Not to get too esoteric about it, but it's sort of the core of what we're trying to do here is, like, alright. You say these things or people say these things, but they don't understand them, and they can't put together a logical syllogism to explain their position because it's just it's just ideological b s. People ascribe to people don't take the time anymore to analyze their own theories of life. Instead, they just ascribe to a certain ideology and then buy into everything that I ideology preaches, and then it's easy. They don't have to think it through.
Brett Johnson [:Well, I think they had just what you brought up, Norm, about the the analogy of this woman signing off on something that she didn't realize was actually gonna represent her thoughts.
Norm Murdock [:Right. We do
Brett Johnson [:that a lot. It's like, yeah, I agree with you. You you literally sign off on it in your head going, that makes sense. Sure. I'm with you.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:And you didn't do the research
Steve Palmer [:on it. She did
Brett Johnson [:work. It's a perfect example. We we put our signature, quote, unquote, on stuff that we we didn't do any thought process on. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Well and senator Kennedy brought out, more evidence of her kind of lackadaisical approach. I wasn't gonna bring this up, but since you brought that up, Brett, she, she has a she is pending right now a 125 motions that are backlogged on her desk. It is the largest amount of backlogged motions in the circuit and the 7th highest for any district judge in the United States. So this lady just doesn't work. She just doesn't do her job. You know? So bad bad apple. Yeah. Wow.
Norm Murdock [:Hey. Speaking of the legal system a little bit, did you guys catch where that, mother who abandoned her infant up there in Cleveland for 10 days while she went, on vacation, she was sentenced to life without parole in that case.
Brett Johnson [:I didn't hear the end result of that, but oh, wow.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Remind me the facts. Remind me the facts, Norm. Is that, did the child die?
Norm Murdock [:Yes. But that they the child, the the last, the last appointment with the pediatrician, the the child weighed £22. And when the EMTs came and collected the dead baby, it was £13. It you know, obviously, living in its own silt for 10 days without food, water, or, you know, any kind of care. And, she just went on vacation. She just, she
Steve Palmer [:went to Puerto Rico
Norm Murdock [:You know?
Steve Palmer [:In Detroit, it says.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Yes. Yes, sir. Right. And just checked out on this infant. And, the judge, said, well, you know, you ended, you know, forever that life is gone. So, basically, I'm gonna pretty much put you on ice too for the for the rest of your days on earth. But I I guess she'll be she'll be out at some point.
Norm Murdock [:I I don't know what a sentence of life without parole really means, but you would know, Steve, probably.
Steve Palmer [:Well, that's what it means. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. How do we so how did Really? Yeah. How did mental health come into play with this? I mean, obviously, it didn't stand a whole lot.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. I mean Wow. She says it at descending, I guess. I was in the hospital in January February 23 because I had emotional and mental problems on one of those two occasions. I wanna make an attempt on my own life. I mean, look, she clearly had mental health problems. So this you know, look, I I this is where
Norm Murdock [:I ride excuse
Brett Johnson [:it though, of course.
Norm Murdock [:No. No.
Steve Palmer [:No. No. No. Not at all. And this is where I sort of ride the middle of the road or I have to ride I I I have to think through things through carefully because what I do for a living, I represent people charged with crimes. And and I will tell you guys, in my almost 30, 29 years of doing this, most people aren't bad people. Most people aren't hardcore psychopathic murdering criminals. In fact, quite the opposite.
Steve Palmer [:Most people who commit those types of crimes or commit acts like this have have pretty significant mental health issues underlying at all or some sort of trauma or something. I'm not excusing it. I'm not giving him a pass for it. But it's also not fair to go the other way and say this person's a diabolical, mean, horrible person. Clearly, she wasn't in her right mind. Clearly, she had mental health problems, and, clearly, she committed crimes. And, you know, I've always struggled, and I think the law is gonna struggle with this in perpetuity, with how do you deal with people like that? You know, do if the person didn't do it on purpose but did such a I don't wanna say didn't do it on purpose. Did it with, say, clouded mental health issues, and wouldn't have done it if an insane mind.
Steve Palmer [:How do you handle it? And, you know, there's always a backlash. You know, the the act is so bad that irrespective of the mental health issues that caused it, she's getting life in prison. And, you know, I would there there there's a decent argument here that, that that's too much or that the the law didn't take into account the mental health problems. On the other hand, somebody's dead, a a child, the whole most horrible crime you can possibly imagine. I mean, look, guy there there are lots there's there's histories of this of young mothers leaving their babies next to dumpsters of, because of mental health and postpartum issues. They don't get a pass for it. But you you have to take them down.
Norm Murdock [:Steve, Steve, you remember that mom that, god. It was a famous case where she she had her kids locked in the car, like, 3 kids, and she she backed it into a lake and they all drowned.
Steve Palmer [:Yep. Same kinda thing.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Like, it it's in it's inexplicable. Would drive somebody or, you know, what impulse would would allow them to do that, but that's where psychiatry comes in. Yep. You know? You have
Steve Palmer [:to get these when you represent folks like that, you get them evaluated, you present the mitigation at court, and you just hope and pray for everybody involved because there's no explanation that makes this work on any level. And there was a case in Columbus, Ohio years ago. I went up to the highest supreme court. I think her name was state versus Hopfer Rebecca Hopfer. And, you know, she she was one of those young mothers that didn't tell her family that she was pregnant, and the baby was she you know, it's just it's it's horrible. It's always horrible because you can sort of see what makes it so hard is that you can empathize with the mother, and at the same time, you have to punish the act. And that that's when that's when the criminal justice system is difficult. The criminal justice system is easy when you're dealing with, like, the Night Stalker.
Steve Palmer [:You know? Right. Right. It's easy. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:But John John Wayne, John Wayne, gave me Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Right. Somebody like Yeah. It's easy then. Or a a gangster, in the, you know, gangster killing people for drug money. I mean, it's easy then, or certainly easier. But when it when it gets to these weird issues of of, diminished capacity that doesn't quite equal a defense and you you still have the horrible act with it with an unthinkable, death, It just is it's hard for the system, man. That that's what well, that's why that's why the career I've chosen shortens your life. Right? Because you have to struggle with those issues all the time.
Steve Palmer [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. My dad, who was also a a defense attorney at times, you know, he he he didn't do that exclusively, but, would also would always get asked by laypersons, nonlawyers, you know, how how can you possibly represent, you know, monstrous people doing monstrous things? And, you know, it's part of our system. If we do not defend the most despicable people for the most despicable acts, then we don't really have a system of justice. We just have, you know, vengeance and and, you know, you know, rope you know, get a rope, and let's let's hang this guy and and and, you know, vigilantism. And and that's the beauty of America is that we bend over backwards to tolerate the worst kind of language under the first amendment, and we bend over backwards to make sure somebody who cannot afford a lawyer even gets a at at some sort of defense at the bar.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. No. It's funny. I the last jury I selected, I I I don't know. I wanted to shake things up a little bit. So I thought I'm just gonna do something a little bit little bit different. So I you know what I did, Norm? I played I played Family Feud. I I stood up, and I said, you know, a 100 people survey, top 5 answers on the board.
Steve Palmer [:Here's the question. Number one question asked of a criminal defense attorney at a holiday party, because I think it was around the holidays. And I you know, you get some hands up, and I start picking the dirt. And eventually, it comes out. And and the question I get quite often is how do you represent those horrible, awful, guilty people? The other the number 2 answer was, can you get me off? Can can you get me out of my truck? Can can can you get me off the crime? Yeah. And my answer to that norm is is sort of interesting. It's it's not that that's not the real question. The harder question for the defense lawyer is, how do you represent the people who you think might be innocent? And, you know, how do you live with that? Because then at stake is everything.
Steve Palmer [:Then at stake is a life that if if you're gonna if I'm gonna impart my morality into my job, which, you know, as lawyers, we try not to. But if I'm gonna import impart my morality into it, and it pervades what I'm the choices I'm making, then it's far more difficult to represent somebody who you believe is innocent, because then at stake is everything in the world. Everything in the world is on your shoulders. And that that's what's that's that's a harder question than than how you represent the guilty people. And look, how do you represent the guilty people is also a difficult question, and we justify it in all sorts of ways, mostly because I think the government is almost is you have to keep the government in check from corruption, and that's a that is a Sisyphean Sisyphean task. Is that the guy who had to push the ball up and down the
Brett Johnson [:No.
Steve Palmer [:A yeah. Sisyphus. Sisyphus. Sisyphus. Sisyphus. Sisyphusian task.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Because it's never done. If we don't if if somebody's not out there fighting against the government action, then you're never gonna expose the corruption. And those of you who think that your version of government will be immune from corruption, then I direct you to every history book that was ever written.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Oh, no question about that. And we can guys,
Steve Palmer [:can we
Norm Murdock [:talk a little bit the account process for control?
Steve Palmer [:Well, you you broke up on this norm. You sound you sound like a robot. Say
Norm Murdock [:that again. Oh, sorry. Yes. Can we, discuss before we close out, can we talk a little bit about the Chips Act and the Intel, you know, slowdown on the project here in, Central Ohio?
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Yeah. A little nervous.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. So so Intel has put the brakes, on, you know, they've slowed down construction of what they call a fab. It's it's just another name for a factory, but where they make chips. And, you know, of course, there's this huge project out in Wicking County, in the Johnstown area. You know, what, $20,000,000,000 project or something. It's just unbelievable. And, apparently, the CHIPS Act, when passed, it was chock full of DEI, quotas for construction workers, for electronic engineers, for programmers, every kind of, well, the gender I guess now there's more than 2. But it it all the all the gender, all the race stuff was packed into the CHIPS Act, and they're finding that they just cannot get, you know, female electricians or diverse, plumbers or or whatever the issue is, the trades just cannot supply those insufficient numbers.
Norm Murdock [:And it actually is crashing, some of these projects in the United States under the CHIPS Act. So Intel is now going to Ireland and, I believe, Poland, for some some you know, to build additional factories rather than the United States. I don't know what's gonna happen in Johnstown, but currently, they put a, they you know? And this is all corporate welfare money, of course, which is a whole another discussion. But, it it's it's you know, this is an urgent thing because China is threatening to take Taiwan in the next 4 or 5 years. They have actually announced kind of a calendar
Steve Palmer [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Like they did with Hong Kong to take Taiwan. And Taiwan makes 90% of the chips used by American corporations in our products. So this is a rather urgent situation.
Steve Palmer [:This I mean, there's so much to unpack here. This is the same nonsense with everybody's, like, all the these greedy gas and oil companies, rack jacking up rates and yada yada yada. But at the same time, the federal federal government has has dropped their yoke on them saying no new. We're not gonna authorize any new drilling. Nobody's gonna invest in, any future drilling activity. So you don't have the private money. You don't have the funds. And so you've you you know, you've got to start circling the wagons, and you can't produce your product.
Steve Palmer [:This is like a a a far more or far less rather abstract of that problem. You've got a stupid government yoke regulating who can who you have to hire. We can't find somebody who qualifies, so we're gonna start moving overseas and building our chips where we don't have to worry about such nonsense. You know, it it it it is lunacy. And then, you know, you could the other side is gonna blame norm, the patriarchy or whatever it is, for not incentivizing enough women and minorities to go into the STEM fields to, wanna build chips. But the fact is, we don't have those people. I I I find it hard to believe that, that that's worthwhile or a worthy reason to, empower China to take to take Taiwan Well which is sort of the endgame, what you just talked about. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:And it's and it's really hard to believe that okay. Walking into this whole project, Intel number 1 knew of this DEI stuff. They they're not stupid.
Steve Palmer [:They probably they probably supported it on some They
Brett Johnson [:did. Level. And secondly, they really can't build this without corporate without without the Chips Act. There's not enough demand that they have to you know, come on. I mean,
Steve Palmer [:why why why why why why would they why would they
Brett Johnson [:free money, basically. I get that. I get it.
Steve Palmer [:It's cheaper to go overseas.
Brett Johnson [:And that's true too. You know? It just So
Steve Palmer [:why would they? It's like
Brett Johnson [:It's the whole thing's mind boggling.
Steve Palmer [:It just If there's ever an intervention into the system that I might be able to get my head around, it would be incentivizing chip chip manufacturers to do it right here in the good old US of A. Because otherwise, if you don't create tariffs or some other restrictions, we're gonna send all that crap overseas and give it to the give it to our enemies. Or at least if nothing else, give other economies the the boost, not ours. Yeah. And instead, what we've done is incentivize it and then handcuff the company so they can't do it. It's it's just such it's it is it is everything wrong with government meddling in the private industry. Everything.
Brett Johnson [:And and Intel and Intel bought right into it. But I I I It's a suicidal fashion. Exactly. But I also they did there's no way they walked into this blindly. Intel is not stupid. They've done this before. They walked into building these things before in certain areas uh-uh and I I'm sure they solve, okay, easy money, free money. Let's go after the chip stuff.
Brett Johnson [:They knew the DEI stuff
Steve Palmer [:to be there. But was it there when it when it was when did that pass, Norm? When's the chips act? Or when did all the DEI crap, was descend onto their backs that they had to start falling into the
Norm Murdock [:So the the CHIPS Act was passed very, very early in the Biden administration. And I am I am not gonna lay this on Joe Biden because I am confident other than the DEI stuff. I'm talking about the corporate welfare part of it. Right. I am confident that president Trump, were he reelected, he would have signed the CHIPS Act. No question about it
Steve Palmer [:Well, sure.
Norm Murdock [:In my mind.
Steve Palmer [:But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about the DEI component of it. Right?
Norm Murdock [:Right. That's the only well, I have a problem with the corporate welfare part.
Steve Palmer [:No. I gotcha.
Norm Murdock [:Have yeah. But I also have a a big problem with the DEI part. On the corporate welfare, let me say one thing because I really like what you said about, you know, the strategic nature of the chips. So in the military field, which you could argue this chip's you know, the chip's, availability has a huge impact on the military Yep. The for fighter jets, for warships, for, you know, Navy Seal binoculars, name it. You know? Got chips in it. But in the military, when they went from the 1911 pistol, to the Beretta, I forget m 87, whatever the Beretta is called. When they went from the Colt m 1911 to the Beretta gun.
Norm Murdock [:The Beretta is a is an Italian company. The government the Pentagon requires all factories making items for the, you know, war materiel for the Pentagon. It has to be made in America for the exact reason that Steve just said about the chips for national security reasons. So Beretta had to build even though they won the contract, they had to build a factory in the United States to make that pistol for the army. And this is a good this is a good analogy for why you would wanna bring chips back to the United States.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. And and what if Beretta what if the government then said Beretta, but you have to have all female workers, making the guns? You know, I mean, look. So they wouldn't do it. They couldn't do it because there's not enough female workers who wanna go build guns in theory. Right. Right. You know, it's like, why don't Doesn't know how
Norm Murdock [:to operate. Doesn't know how to work at a foundry.
Steve Palmer [:Let's go ahead.
Norm Murdock [:Know how to operate a lab
Brett Johnson [:or Or or at least the labor pool is not ready yet. Yeah. And and maybe never
Steve Palmer [:will be. And would it ever be? So you get into this psychological question of what do women like to do and what do men like to do and where do we sort? And, you know Right. All you gotta do is sort of look at what they do. I mean, do different things. Yeah. Thank god. Because otherwise, it'd be boring.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Because Intel came here under knowing they were gonna work with, Ohio State, all universities around here as a feeder.
Steve Palmer [:As a feeder. Right.
Brett Johnson [:They knew that. So, really, the pool is not there yet.
Steve Palmer [:Yep. And and No. If it's going to be presume that there's enough women who would fill the quota that actually want to do that job. Sure. Sure. And that presumes before that that women have gone to school or whatever training they needed to go do that, Jasmine.
Brett Johnson [:There's a ramp up
Steve Palmer [:to it. And that presumes before that that they wanted that they didn't wanna go to school for. It's so stupid. And,
Norm Murdock [:guys, I'm in a car race today. Okay? I'm in a car race. There's there's, something like 30 cars in the race. There's 1 female driver. There are no laws, policies, or anything to prevent females participating.
Steve Palmer [:Is she driving a minivan or a Honda Odyssey?
Norm Murdock [:No. No. No. She's no. No. Driving some really big she's driving a big nasty hairy v eight vehicle, and I'm sure she's a great driver. But the point I'm trying to make is there's actual outreach by the sanctioning body to encourage more females in motorsports. And, of course, you know, you got Danica Patrick.
Norm Murdock [:You got some great examples. So the Lynn St. James. You know, the point is not as many females wanna do this of their own volition.
Steve Palmer [:Why is that? You I mean, I'm not asking you to answer the question, but, rhetorically, we should all know. We should all think about the psychology of it. Why do men tend to sort towards more dangerous activities like underwater welding can't answer that. Or or like building the the the big steel buildings or whatever. I mean, clearly, there's some physiological reasons for this and psychological reasons for this and some developmental reasons for this, and you go back to caveman times. There's some reasons that that probably justify it beyond discrimination, I would think.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, sure. Yeah. Just interest. What do they wanna do Sure. With their lives? Yeah. Right.
Steve Palmer [:Right. Why are my boys running around playing with sticks fashioned as guns when they were 5 years old? Right. It's like in the woods. It's like, why does that happen? And and I didn't have daughters, but my buddy's daughters weren't doing that. Didn't even wanna do it. And there are people you
Norm Murdock [:know, on
Steve Palmer [:the other side would say, well, they're socially conditioned. That's it's like, I don't buy it. That's a bunch of BS. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:So I lied I lied. I said Intel was my last thing. I just wanna stick this in because I think it's super interesting. RFK Junior is part of a legal team suing the state of Washington over COVID censorship. He's representing MB NBA legend, basketball player John Stockton as the client
Steve Palmer [:who
Norm Murdock [:was shut allowed to to, post or, you know, express his COVID beliefs. And, you know, I think it's interesting that we got a candidate for president who's also lawyering for free speech right now. I think it's great. So
Steve Palmer [:Yep. Yep. Well, look. I the the conversation we had and then I'm gonna do my normal wrap up. The conversation we had earlier about, guilty people and innocent people and representing people in court, it it it reminded me of a case that I read recently out of the US Supreme Court, and they told a story, in a principle actually, the US Supreme Court actually did this. They told a story about a principle of Roman law by, emperor Julian, and the story goes something like this. Numerius, the governor of Narbanesus, was on trial, before the emperor. Numerius contented himself with denying his guilt.
Steve Palmer [:There was not sufficient proof against him. His adversary, seeing that the failure of the accusation was inevitable, in other words, he was going to lose. The adversary, the prosecutor rather, exclaimed, oh, illustrious Caesar, if it is sufficient to not to deny this charge, what hereafter will become of all the guilty? To which Julian replied, if it suffices to accuse, what will become of the innocent? Right? So they're making the point. If the evidence is insufficient here on a guilty guy, do you look at it like, alright. Well, if we let this, potentially guilty guy go, then what's that gonna say to all the other guilty people? And the other side of the coin is, just the opposite. What are we saying about all the innocent people who are wrongfully accused? And for those who love stuff like that as I do, the quote is from United or Coffin, c o f f I n, versus the United States. 156 US 4321895. Wow.
Steve Palmer [:US Supreme Court bringing it home. Yeah. So well, look.
Norm Murdock [:Do you recall do you recall, Steve, what the, chart was before Caesar? What what was, the case?
Steve Palmer [:I I don't know. I don't know the story of what the guy was accused of. The coffin involved, I think, a bunch of mail fraud type stuff that, they didn't have sufficient proof of. But, I should dig that's a good question. I should dig into it more. But, anyway, yeah, we're gonna go
Norm Murdock [:Oh, you
Brett Johnson [:wanna stick in the word of the day?
Steve Palmer [:Oh, yeah. Let's get the word of the day.
Brett Johnson [:So Let's see if you jogging. Have you heard of jogging?
Steve Palmer [:Is it pornographic?
Brett Johnson [:No. So
Norm Murdock [:I'm gonna guess. I'm gonna guess. Juggling is when you put somebody in detention at school.
Brett Johnson [:Oh. That's a good one. I like that. No. It's not though.
Steve Palmer [:This is like a board game.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So it's it's noun. It's a theft committed by a perpetrator who waits at a bank near an ATM or outside an expensive store, watches for customers who might be carrying a large amount of cash or goods then follows them to steal the money or goods from the customer or from their car.
Norm Murdock [:Wow.
Brett Johnson [:So it's modeled on the word mugging. The word jug can be a slang term for bank. Yeah. That I'd I I never heard that one.
Steve Palmer [:No.
Brett Johnson [:So I thought, well, if nothing else, you're a little bit more smarter when you go into court going, oh, yeah. It's a jugging case.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. He's out there jugging.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. They're jugging.
Steve Palmer [:Jigging and jugging. Alright. Well, then we're gonna wrap it up. Another awesome March 22 edition of Common Sense Ohio, where you can check out all the back episodes of common sense ohioshow.com. And guess what? We're on Facebook. We're on YouTube. We're on Rumble. We're everywhere.
Steve Palmer [:So go check us out. And not don't just check it out, guys. Like it. Share it. Tell your neighbors about it. Comment. Yeah. Comment.
Steve Palmer [:But what norm is love stupid. Norm if you don't think we're reading your comments, trust me. Yeah. We are.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Norm is, Norm is incensed by all of it. I'm just kidding. No. No. Check it out, guys. We and we appreciate your support. If you wanna be on the show, that's easy. Just go to commonsenseohohoshow.com.
Steve Palmer [:Send us an email. I think, we're gonna bring in some guests here, in the near future, and I really love those guest appearances. So if you think you got the chops, or you got a good idea for a show, check it out and send us a Or we're running
Brett Johnson [:for office for 2 for 2.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. We're 2 for 2.
Brett Johnson [:Marino and Vance. Both run, and they won.
Steve Palmer [:If you follow the logic, all you have to do is show up on our show, and you get elected. Yeah. Right.
Brett Johnson [:That's what I'm saying.
Steve Palmer [:That sounds like that sounds like God logic. Well
Norm Murdock [:well, Frank Frank LaRueze would would sadly argue that
Brett Johnson [:Actually, we're 2
Norm Murdock [:out of 3. Come through for him.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. 2 out of 3. Well, I guess it depends on what you're running for.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. True.
Steve Palmer [:Alright. Well, with that, we're gonna wrap up another riveting dose of Common Sense, here at Common Sense Ohio, where we are coming at you right from the middle each and every week, at least until now.
