Artwork for podcast Sharing The Middle
Girlhood and Lifelong Friendships Part 2
Episode 64 • 9th May 2024 • Sharing The Middle • Joyful Support Movement
00:00:00 00:42:57

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Show Notes

We are jumping back into my conversation with my dear friend, Emma. We dove deep into the nitty-gritty of life and discussed everything from personal growth and body image to the impact of our upbringing on our self-esteem and relationships.

Emma and I also had a wonderful conversation about our moms. We chatted about how they shaped our views on independence and motherhood and how these perspectives have influenced us and our hopes for our own children.

The tables turned for a bit too! Emma interviewed me, and we explored my internal struggles and how my relationship with myself and others has evolved over time. We reminisced about old friendships, my journey to self-acceptance, and the pressure society puts on us when it comes to body image and self-worth.

Lastly, I opened up about my ongoing battle with chronic illness. It's been a tough journey, but I've learned so much. It's changed how I approach life, motherhood, and how I pursue happiness. Our chat was a sincere reflection on life's complexities, the roads to healing, and the transformative power of friendship and empathy. I can't wait for you to hear it!

Thanks for Sharing The Middle with me today! I hope you got as much out of it as I did.

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JSM Instagram

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Transcripts

Lacey:

Welcome to sharing the middle.

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Where we try to see and feel seen by

each other, by sharing our stories

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of the messy middles of life.

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I'm Lacey your.

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Guide through the middle.

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Fellow middler, whatever

you want to call me.

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And this is part two of my

conversation with my dear friend, Emma.

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And I'm going to be upfront with

y'all that it gets pretty deep

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in this episode and you actually

learn a lot about me and my.

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Internal world and so many other things.

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Putting this one out there.

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It's very vulnerable for me.

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But I have a feeling that there will be.

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several, if not many people.

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Who see a little bit of

themselves in parts of it.

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We do talk about things like body image.

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Self-esteem.

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, relationships, all that kind of stuff.

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So if any of that's a

little triggering for you.

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Feel free to skip this one.

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I am again, so thankful for Emma for

having this conversation, because

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what you'll hear is at some point she

starts interviewing me, which I think

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is something that only a good friend.

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I can do.

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Of being like, no, no, no.

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Let's get to the meat and it is.

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Fantastic and wonderful.

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Let's dive back into my

conversation with Emma so we can

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continue to tell my story through

conversations of people in my life.

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Let's jump right in.

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I just love, I also love that we had

very different parents and that, like

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your mom to me is like the symbol of

an independent woman in a lot of ways.

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And I love that I had that to look at

as oh, this is another option in life.

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Emma: And like when things weren't.

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going to work out financially?

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She's nope, I'm going to make it work.

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And she started a second business and

she worked two jobs and she was like

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the OG hustler of, I'm going to make

this work and I'm going to keep this

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farm so my kids can grow up here.

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And I even remember turning, when I was

18, I was like, why are we still here?

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this is a lot of work.

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And she looked at us and she was

like, I kept this house because I

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wanted you guys to have this childhood

and now looking back I'm like how

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many memories do we have of running

through those woods and the gator

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Lacey: many.

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Emma: and the birthday parties and

the bonfires and it was just such

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a cool way to grow up that even now

I'm like okay how can I give that

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to my kids like I don't want my

kids to be raised in a neighborhood.

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They need some, they need a tree to climb.

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we don't even, we have one tree.

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They need multiple trees to climb.

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They need fields to run through.

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And it's just such a really

cool, but we only had that

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because she wouldn't give up.

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Yeah.

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It's

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Lacey: When she also was one of my

first views of motherhood of she

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was her own person and a mother not.

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just a mother.

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And I don't want to, I don't say that to

my mom is like the ultimate mother figure.

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And so that was always my standard.

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I'm like, Oh, you live up

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Emma: exhausting.

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Lacey: Yeah.

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Emma: That's a lot of pressure.

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Lacey: And so I have seen

her be like, she's a mom.

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And she has her boundaries in places

like, Lori would lock the door to her

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bedroom, which I respect so hard now.

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Emma: know.

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I know.

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Lacey: I respect so hard now.

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I don't even think I ever went into

her room, it's so I just, but I'm

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just like, what a good boundary.

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I don't know.

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I just look back on some

of those things that I did.

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that maybe I thought were like weird or

Oh, why are they making that choice now?

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I'm like, Oh,

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Emma: it makes sense.

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Lacey: so hard.

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Emma: Yes.

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It's so interesting you say that

because I never saw it that way

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because I was living it, right?

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Now, because you've said that, I'm like,

oh, that's why I never really wanted to

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stay home because she didn't, she's always

worked so hard and she loved her job.

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And so finding a career that I loved,

that I thrived in, but also finding

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a side gig that I loved while she did

that also, it like our lives aligned so

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much more than I think what I would have

ever put together until you said that.

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Lacey: Oh, you guys are a lot alike now.

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When I see you're working out

videos and food stuff, I'm like,

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Oh, I remember when Emma was salty

that her mom had only healthy

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food.

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Emma: And that's why I remember

your family's burritos.

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Because yeah, we had, I can't

believe it's not butter.

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And we did have easy Mac.

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We had peanut butter and jelly.

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We had a scallop chicken and noodles.

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We had all the fun stuff, but majority was

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Lacey: low fat

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Emma: Yes.

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Yes.

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That low fat generation, man.

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Lacey: I was, but I was just

thinking about that the other day.

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I'm like, oh, she's become

Lori in a lot of ways.

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Which is funny because you would

have thought it was Abby, but no.

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Emma: Nope.

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Lacey: It came around to you.

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Yes.

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Which

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Emma: Which is funny because

Abby's so nurturing now.

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It's wild because my sister

growing up she, I feel like

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everybody was scared of her.

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And like she intimidated

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Lacey: But she always liked me,

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Emma: did always But she is the

softest, cuddliest human on the planet.

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She It's she loves to tie dye,

she loves to read books, she loves

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she's a teacher and so she loves

her job and she just, It is so wild

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to see her switch so dramatically

into this, soft, cuddly bear who,

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Lacey: who dye

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Emma: and knit and she's the sewer

of the family and she loves to cook

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and she houses us every holiday

because she's so much of a better

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cook than I am and, yeah, it's I,

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Lacey: like, I logically know it.

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I've seen it.

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I'm friends with Abby on Facebook,

but I'm also like, I don't know.

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Abby's voice always

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Emma: Got you.

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Scary.

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She's the scary one.

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That's how I felt about

Paige's sister, too.

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Do you

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Lacey: Oh, yeah.

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Emma: But your sisters were never scary.

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Lacey: No.

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No, they weren't.

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Emma: I think Rob was the

scariest out of all of them.

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Yeah.

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But that's just because I was

never exposed to a brother.

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Yeah.

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Lacey: And boys I think are different.

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And he also was, even though he

was five years older than us,

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he was still the closest in age.

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So I think those kinds of

things all add up to it.

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Emma: See, in my mind,

Becky's the closest.

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Is she not?

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She's not, no.

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Nope.

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But she was always there taking care of us

and letting us use her clothes and Yeah.

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Lacey: Yeah.

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No.

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It's also funny though, Amy, who

you would think is the softest

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of my, my, my siblings, was

the meanest to me growing up.

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Really?

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Oh my gosh.

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Amy used to drag me up

the stairs by my hair.

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Emma: Yeah.

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Oh

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Lacey: But that didn't happen

as much when we moved to Tip.

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That happened mostly when

we lived in Fort Thomas,

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Emma: so when she was like 13,

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Lacey: No, she would have,

she was like in high school.

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She would, she knew

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better.

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And I was much younger.

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I know.

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But.

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then she came around and she

fed me for years when I would go

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visit her and her kids for dinner.

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So it's just so weird to see how those,

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Emma: Yeah.

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They shift.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I don't feel like you or I

shifted that dramatically.

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No.

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No, we're pretty much

the same people, I think.

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Lacey: I will say you are less

weird than you used to be.

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Emma: I used to be a compulsive liar also.

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I really think I had a large

shift around 17, 18, where I,

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I drank a lot in high school.

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I haven't had a drink in three years.

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I smoked a lot in high school.

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I did smoke through 120,

so that doesn't count.

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I cussed a lot.

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Do you remember how much I cussed?

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I

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Lacey: did, but we were allowed

to cuss at your house when we were

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13.

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Emma: Oh,

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yeah.

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Oh, yeah.

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And that's where Lori was a rebel.

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She was the rebel parrot.

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Lacey: I will say, thinking about

it now, I'm like, uh, I don't know.

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But I also, I think I view cussing

and cursing different, and like,

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if my kids say it, it's just

don't say it in front of other

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Emma: I

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Lacey: It doesn't

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Emma: matter.

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yeah.

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Lacey: But I remember the 13 year old

role, and I was like, yeah, I'm 13 now.

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Emma: Do you remember how

much of a liar I used to be?

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Lacey: Yeah.

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Emma: Oh, that, if

there is one thing of my

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Lacey: It was so from insecurity though.

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And it was always about the

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Emma: things.

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Yes, I know, but it was like

compulsive about dumb stuff.

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Yeah.

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That's what's so wild.

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I'm like, I look back and I'm like,

you know how there's that one thing in

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your childhood that just nags at you?

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Like, why did I do that?

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It was that.

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And if I ever left anybody out,

the idea of leaving anybody out,

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what is that, strength finders.

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Like one of my biggest things is

making sure everybody feels involved.

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Yeah.

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Because the idea of ever leaving

anybody out makes me crippled.

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Lacey: It's so funny, because

there are times where I was

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left out, but it was never

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your

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Emma: No, but I allowed it to happen.

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Oh, wow.

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And that is just as bad.

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There were birthday parties, there

were laser tag events, there were

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so many things that I allowed to

happen, and I never stopped it.

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And I will never, I will work on

forgiveness for that, but also, it

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hurts me just as much as it'll hurt you.

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Lacey: But there, I would say there

are certain people that things are

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specifically tied to events that

happened and that were consistent.

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Emma: But even in life, when

you allow something to happen,

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you are still in charge of that.

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And so the fact that ever even

allowed that to happen still.

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Yeah.

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I am sorry.

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I know.

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But, But I am.

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I don't have to be, but I really am.

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Lacey: I know.

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It's

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Emma: It's part of childhood, right?

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Lacey: is.

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It's part of childhood.

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And it's so weird.

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I

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wouldn't say that I was ever bullied.

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truly bullied or anything like that.

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But I do think about certain friendships.

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And oh man.

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Thank God, you can move on with life

and not have to see things anymore.

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Because, I, I don't hold ill will

towards anybody or anything like that.

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It's just that's one of the

beautiful things about growing up.

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I told this to my niece who's graduating

high school this year, and I'm like, you

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get to choose who's in your life, and you

don't have to put up with stuff anymore.

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And I just.

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I think about that sometimes, too.

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Emma: But in the moment it feels like

I remember being in eighth grade and

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in the moment those people in your

life that are so toxic, it feels like

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you'll never be able to escape it.

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Yeah.

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And it feels so heavy all the time.

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Yeah.

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My fourth grader is

having really bad issues.

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she's actually working through them

right now, but I have her in counseling

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right now because of Friendships.

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Yeah.

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And I looked at her and I

was like, girl, I get it.

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Let's go get you some help because

you need to learn boundaries and

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barriers right now at a younger

age so this doesn't haunt you the

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rest of, so thankfully, counseling.

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Lacey: Heck yeah.

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You know I'm all pro therapy.

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I know.

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We

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Emma: also go get Starbucks beforehand,

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Lacey: I think it's really cool that

you think about your experience and you

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think, no, I wanna give you the tools now

so you don't have to feel this way later

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on.

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Emma: And I do think that's

the better aspect of our

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generation that we've learned.

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But I don't think our parents

even had that availability.

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it wasn't around.

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So they couldn't have given us that.

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Lacey: It's like with Isaac right

now, he's having some issues, and

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we're working on getting him tools to

be able to deal with them, and Joe's

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just like, I'm so glad he's not gonna

have to figure this all out on his

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own when everything crumbles to the

ground and he doesn't know what to

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do.

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And I'm just like, you're right.

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You're right.

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You're right.

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it's okay.

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He's doing that now.

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He's supposed to do that now.

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but I also think, Looking back now,

those friendships that were not

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great and toxic, I don't know, I'm

just I learned a lot from that.

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Looking back now, and the effort

that it took to be mean to people is

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just something I've never understood.

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Emma: don't either.

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Lacey: And there are times where I think

about something that I've said, and I'm

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like, Oh, I shouldn't have said that.

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But I never intentionally

tried to hurt someone.

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I do think about things that I'm

like, Oh, nope, that was mean.

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We put a girl's bra in a cooler.

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It wasn't even a freezer.

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It was a cooler.

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I think I had a lot of friendships

that I felt like I had to be very

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performative in, but that our

friendship was never like that for me.

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And so I think that's another reason

why it's easy to continue being friends.

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Emma: So I also think too like

we can snap back and instantly

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just be ourselves again.

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Lacey: I know.

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it was funny because I could

tell the beginning you were like,

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there's a microphone and we're

talking and I didn't want you to

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feel like you to put on a show.

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And then no,

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Emma: It's the beginning.

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I don't like the beginning of anything.

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I know.

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Lacey: I know.

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And I, yeah, but I agree.

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It's just, yeah, just who we are.

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And I think you, like I said, I think you

have, One of the clearest pictures of who

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I am to my core as a person, and I just

don't think that's something that fades.

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Emma: Okay, so I do want to know what

season of your life do you feel was

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the hardest or like looking back at

your childhood you were like this

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season was just really difficult.

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Lacey: our older years in high school,

I made some decisions I'm not very

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proud of, I actually have a lot of

lingering issues from that I'm now

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starting to work on and deal with.

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And, so that was a very

isolating and hard time for

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Emma: yeah.

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Lacey: And even during that time, though,

I remember, I don't know if it's because

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you just weren't in school very much.

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I just remember being like,

but I have Emma over here.

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I don't, it was not, I don't know.

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I don't, I don't associate

you with it at all.

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That was a very hard time for me.

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And I, but I also, not even thinking

about that, but I think about

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just my relationship with myself.

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And that was a period of time where I

started to just be really hard on myself.

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Emma: that was going into senior

year when you were class president.

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Lacey: Yeah.

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because I spent a lot of,

I spent a lot of time.

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being sad that I didn't have male

attention, that boys didn't like me.

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I was always the bigger girl,

like all of those things.

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And I spent a lot of time feeling

alienated because of that.

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And, I wish I could tell that

girl now, like girlfriend.

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You actually don't like them.

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Emma: no, they're all

really crappy people.

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So

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Lacey: they're douchebags and some,

and it was one of those things too

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where any scrap of attention I got

was meant the world to me and was

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frankly meant way too much to me.

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and I just think about not that

I think anybody took advantage

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of that or anything like, I just.

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I think about that girl, and I think about

that time, and I just, I don't remember.

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When I say I don't remember that time,

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Emma: You blocked it out?

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Lacey: I truly don't

remember a lot of that

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Emma: I think our brains do that almost so

we can heal from it without having to walk

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through it over and over and live in it.

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Lacey: it.

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is, but what I've learned, because like I

said, I've been going through therapy and

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like literally, I just, I'm doing trauma.

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based therapy with, actively

working on this specificallY.

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, I think I have placed a lot

more value on that time because.

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My brain won't let me access it,

and anytime, but the fact that I'm

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even having this conversation right

now is a really big step for me.

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but that time specifically, anytime

I would think about it or think

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about anything connected to it.

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my chest would lock up.

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Emma: and

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Lacey: a long time, I just

was like, that's how you feel.

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That's how you feel.

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That's how you feel.

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And then I'm like, Oh no, I've

learned that's called trauma.

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Emma: Yeah, something else under

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Lacey: There's that's called trauma.

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And that is affecting a lot of the

decisions that I was making all the

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time until like my mid twenties.

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It's hard.

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That time I also think about, a lot

of people would look at that time

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and say, oh my gosh, you were student

body president, you were doing all

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Emma: all the things.

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Yeah.

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Lacey: But I couldn't even, I

couldn't even tell you about anything.

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Emma: It'll be interesting to loop

back around and see maybe what is

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uncovered through your therapy.

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Lacey: Yeah, my therapist, one of

the things that we talked about,

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what success would look like for me

is me being able to talk about it.

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So me even just talking about a

bad thing happened that existed

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during this time, huge for

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me.

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Huge.

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and I still may cut this out.

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I dunno.

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Emma: the learning experience

you gained through it.

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allowed you to maybe have some

walls up to be able to meet Joe.

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don't you just wish you could

go sit knee to knee with that

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girl and be like, just wait.

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Wait till you meet your husband.

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I got something really good for you.

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:

You just,

405

:

Lacey: and it's really funny.

406

:

I have, just was finishing editing

my conversation with my cousin.

407

:

And in it, I do say, it took me being

with Joe for two years to realize that

408

:

I, Don't care about a man's opinion

of me like that it took me having

409

:

it and having it in a positive way

to realize how unimportant it was.

410

:

And one I hate it because

I'm like, damn it, Joe.

411

:

But I just it took me so long to And I do.

412

:

I just I think back and

it was so important to me.

413

:

Emma: Yeah.

414

:

Lacey: It was so important to me.

415

:

and there are so many places where

I just made decisions where I was

416

:

like, why would you do I know.

417

:

Emma: I hate to say this because

I'm like, man, it's one of those

418

:

moments where I'm like, look at you,

419

:

Lacey: I

420

:

Emma: look at you getting out of the

box, look at you like working through

421

:

it, look at you like just, I don't know,

healing yourself and doing all the things

422

:

that are going to make you a better

person and more healed person in the end.

423

:

Lacey: I am doing it now for myself,

not for someone else thinking I'm

424

:

better, or, I don't know, anybody, it's

only for me to truly be better, not

425

:

I don't know how else to say

426

:

Emma: Not to prove that you're trying,

427

:

Lacey: Yeah.

428

:

not to do it because I should do

it, and not to do it because it's

429

:

the right thing to say that I'm

doing it, but to do it because it

430

:

will actually make me feel better.

431

:

Emma: Right.

432

:

How do you think Joe has maybe

healed you through your marriage

433

:

to prove as a father, as a husband,

watching him even parent differently?

434

:

Do you feel like that has been healing?

435

:

Lacey: I didn't know men like Joe existed.

436

:

I didn't know that there were men that

football wasn't, or sports or whatever

437

:

wasn't their main priority in life.

438

:

I didn't know.

439

:

I didn't know, which is so funny because

440

:

some people have commented that I do have

a very masculine energy in some ways.

441

:

And I'm just like, but I've always

442

:

not I've always thought

that was this one thing.

443

:

And now I think I

understand it a little bit

444

:

more.

445

:

But that was really the biggest

thing that Joe taught me is oh.

446

:

I don't actually like those men.

447

:

Emma: yeah.

448

:

Lacey: That's just what I thought

everything was and that existed.

449

:

And I actually think about a lot of

the boys that we went to school with

450

:

now in a very kind of like fond way of

451

:

Emma: yeah, they're fun and

452

:

Lacey: outgoing and fun

and that kind of thing.

453

:

And, Teenage boys are still my least

favorite demographic in the world.

454

:

I know that they're going to come

comment on my podcast about it.

455

:

But, I find them more

scary than teenage girls.

456

:

Middle school girls, though.

457

:

Emma: Ooh.

458

:

Lacey: Scary.

459

:

But high school girls,

I can deal with them.

460

:

'cause I know how

461

:

insecure they are.

462

:

Exactly.

463

:

Emma: You know what the root of them are.

464

:

Lacey: but teenage boys, it's just,

it's so in, in proving a ma a certain

465

:

Emma: it's a

466

:

whole testosterone surge.

467

:

Yeah.

468

:

Lacey: and

469

:

Emma: I just.

470

:

Everything about them is just.

471

:

Lacey: yeah.

472

:

The fact that Joe existed still

is something that I value, and

473

:

that, Joe thinks I'm the most

beautiful woman in the world.

474

:

genuinely, he does.

475

:

And, oh, I might cry.

476

:

I've always known that I'm pretty,

I'm really good at compartmentalizing

477

:

and logicing out of, I have a

pretty face, I have a nice smile,

478

:

but I've always been bigger.

479

:

I've always been the biggest friend.

480

:

There was never, I was always the

biggest girl in the group, and I

481

:

think that had a bigger impact on

me than probably any of you knew

482

:

Emma: Never.

483

:

I never knew it.

484

:

Because you carry yourself

with such confidence.

485

:

Lacey: yeah, because even though

we all know I'm the biggest one,

486

:

we shouldn't talk about it because

that'll point direct, attention to it.

487

:

Emma: but to me, that's, saying

Lauren was always the tallest.

488

:

And I feel like as we were kids,

we didn't even think about that.

489

:

You know what I mean?

490

:

Like it never,

491

:

Lacey: you didn't think

492

:

Emma: yes.

493

:

And that's the ignorance that I'm

like, Oh, Oh, what you must have been

494

:

feeling that I wasn't even aware of.

495

:

Lacey: Yeah.

496

:

And no one ever made me feel,

none of the girls ever made

497

:

me feel less than or, one time

498

:

called me fat, but no,

she called me obese.

499

:

, I, this, I literally think about this all

the time and I have to say this out loud.

500

:

We were in class, and she was sitting with

501

:

, and they were like right in

front of me, and we were being

502

:

taught the word obese, and

503

:

leaned over to

504

:

and said, I know someone obese, Lacey.

505

:

, that, that has stuck with me.

506

:

Emma: is fat shaming in the 90s.

507

:

Lacey: I know.

508

:

I was, I'm like, I'm right

509

:

Emma: That memory that

you'll never forget.

510

:

Lacey: I know.

511

:

Emma: that's what I think is

wild about humans is that we have

512

:

those that make up our childhood.

513

:

And that's one of those memories.

514

:

Told me one time that I had more

hair on my lip than he did, which

515

:

I still have a very hairy lip.

516

:

It's fine.

517

:

Lacey: I do.

518

:

Emma: and I remember the entire

day I took scotch tape and I

519

:

tried to rip the hair off my lip.

520

:

It's like those memories that

are burned into your soul

521

:

Mhm.

522

:

Mhm.

523

:

Lacey: There were glimmers of boys

maybe actually thinking I'm attractive.

524

:

Emma: Because you are.

525

:

we all know Laci's beautiful.

526

:

Lacey: and like there were times

where I would get close with

527

:

a guy in a very platonic way.

528

:

Yes.

529

:

And something would happen that it

would be like, oh, you don't want

530

:

to be seen with me, even as my

being your friend, because people

531

:

could think you would like me.

532

:

And that really stuck with

me of that kind of stuff.

533

:

But the girls never made me feel that way.

534

:

Like my friends, I, no one ever

said anything to me or anything

535

:

like that, but it was just

something that I assumed was known.

536

:

because we can all see me.

537

:

I'm not, it's not a secret.

538

:

That's one of the things

that it's yeah, I don't know.

539

:

I think about it now.

540

:

I'm like, why?

541

:

I don't know.

542

:

I remember, having to order a t shirt

and, giving my size was the most anxiety

543

:

ridden thing because I knew I would have

to have a bigger size than everybody else.

544

:

it's and it's so stupid.

545

:

I don't know.

546

:

Emma: But even though it's

stupid, it's still real.

547

:

it's still feelings that you,

548

:

Lacey: and like I said, there were some

boys who paid attention to me in private,

549

:

Emma: Mm hmm.

550

:

Lacey: but not in public, which I think

just really fucked with me in a lot of

551

:

ways of thinking that was more normal.

552

:

Emma: but I also, I love listening

to your podcast, especially with the

553

:

health and wellness people, when you

are able to vocally proclaim yes,

554

:

I have worked through this though.

555

:

And I know that doesn't matter

because it doesn't like.

556

:

At the end of the day, who you are as a

person is all that matters, and I think

557

:

that's what your friends saw, is who you

are, your brain, your heart, and how you

558

:

show up for your life matters way more

than what you look like on the outside.

559

:

But also, I understand that was a

huge part of our childhood that you

560

:

had to battle, and that is hard.

561

:

Lacey: Yeah.

562

:

It's Certainly

563

:

not pleasant.

564

:

I know.

565

:

Emma: especially as kids, we don't know,

566

:

.

Lacey: I think for me now, too, especially, I recently was diagnosed

567

:

with diabetes and it, I've not said it

anywhere because I have this, It's still

568

:

that same of Oh, it's because I'm fat.

569

:

Emma: you had diabetes

when you were pregnant.

570

:

you are just prone to it.

571

:

look at your genetics.

572

:

that's what I was going to say.

573

:

Look at your genetics.

574

:

you are predestined genetically.

575

:

there are so many things.

576

:

That's like having long toes.

577

:

Lacey: Joe,

578

:

the other day when I I told him,

579

:

I was like, I'm just,

it feels like I failed.

580

:

And he was like, Oh my God.

581

:

He's Lacey, he's you're great.

582

:

Your maternal grandmother had it.

583

:

Your dad has had

584

:

Emma: it.

585

:

Yes.

586

:

Lacey: You have PCOS.

587

:

You, you

588

:

Emma: you have all of it.

589

:

You can't move and

590

:

Lacey: and do all the things

that you're supposed to.

591

:

And he was like, it's like expecting a

little league team to beat the Yankees.

592

:

Emma: Exactly.

593

:

Exactly.

594

:

that's what I just want to be

595

:

Lacey: like, Yeah, I guess

there's a possibility.

596

:

Emma: no, you are genetically predestined.

597

:

that's it's like you getting PCOS

and thinking it's your fault.

598

:

Lacey: I know.

599

:

I'm.

600

:

Emma: that's not your fault.

601

:

that's your genetics.

602

:

Like,

603

:

Lacey: I, again, logically,

I can know all these

604

:

Emma: things.

605

:

Also, can you imagine the battle that

you would have to go through the rest

606

:

of your life to combat your, yes, maybe

if you did XYZ and you were perfectly

607

:

healthy and you didn't have a chronic

illness and you weren't already, like,

608

:

maybe, Maybe, maybe there's a 5 percent

chance you didn't end up with it,

609

:

but I know plenty of people that they

do XYZ and they still have it, like,

610

:

Lacey: it's interesting cause

I've started taking Menjaro, which

611

:

is, and so I've lost five pounds

612

:

But it's, I don't want to talk about that.

613

:

I'm losing weight because I

don't want it to be a thing.

614

:

Emma: Yeah.

615

:

Lacey: because I am probably going to be

on it for the rest of my life, which means

616

:

I probably will be at a smaller size soon.

617

:

Emma: Yeah.

618

:

Lacey: And I,

619

:

Emma: this, and this

620

:

Lacey: shit, just from then is still

in my head of maybe boys will like me.

621

:

Like literally.

622

:

I had that thought and I'm like,

there is a boy that likes me.

623

:

Emma: and he's, the greatest human

624

:

Lacey: he's great.

625

:

I want to punch him in the

626

:

Emma: face so much even if you

didn't love joe if you listen to your

627

:

podcast Maybe you didn't know Joe.

628

:

Me.

629

:

I barely knew Joe and I listened

to the podcast and I'm like,

630

:

oh man, that man is incredible.

631

:

He is a delight.

632

:

He is funny.

633

:

He cares.

634

:

He shows up.

635

:

He sits on a podcast.

636

:

That is amazing.

637

:

it truly,

638

:

Lacey: is such

639

:

Emma: such a

640

:

Lacey: he he really is.

641

:

And I.

642

:

Emma: to know your kids get him as a dad.

643

:

At the end of the day, how cool is that?

644

:

Lacey: Oh, my kids are

645

:

amazing.

646

:

Freaking

647

:

Emma: lucky.

648

:

Lacey: I am so proud of our approach to

parenting and how we're, truly on the

649

:

same page of wanting our children to be

the best people that they can be without

650

:

the pressure that I put on myself.

651

:

Because I, again, I say this all the

time, no one made me feel that like I

652

:

Emma: to be.

653

:

No, you're the youngest child.

654

:

you don't fit that scenario.

655

:

Lacey: So I'm not, I don't know who to

blame for that, but it's certainly, it's

656

:

not my mom's fault, or anything like

657

:

Emma: I would say society.

658

:

Lacey: I have always had

anxiety and I've not known

659

:

Emma: it.

660

:

Lacey: and that I also have

always had big emotions and my

661

:

big emotions were not appreciated.

662

:

by the world a lot of times.

663

:

And I learned very quickly

that you just push it down.

664

:

Emma: You dumb yourself

down a little bit too.

665

:

Yeah.

666

:

Yeah.

667

:

Lacey: Push it down.

668

:

You push it down.

669

:

And then here's the problem.

670

:

I'm really smart.

671

:

And

672

:

so you know what that does?

673

:

That makes my anxiety really

674

:

Emma: smart.

675

:

Lacey: And so there are times in my

life where I'm like, holy shit, I was

676

:

so anxious and I didn't even know it.

677

:

Yeah.

678

:

Because it was so sneaky

and it wouldn't let

679

:

me see it.

680

:

I don't know.

681

:

It's.

682

:

It's nefarious.

683

:

I started to think, I posted this

the other day, I started to think

684

:

of my anxiety as a misinformed spy.

685

:

Like she's really devious.

686

:

She does some weird shit in the

background that I don't understand,

687

:

but she's using the wrong briefing.

688

:

Emma: Yes.

689

:

Yes.

690

:

Lacey: So I can listen to her

and just be like, Oh, honey.

691

:

You

692

:

Emma: But to ignore her does more damage.

693

:

Yes.

694

:

Lacey: And that's, I do think

that's ultimately why I ended

695

:

up with what I ended up chronic

illness wise is I need to say this

696

:

for myself and for everybody else.

697

:

It is real.

698

:

My illness is real.

699

:

What happens to me is real.

700

:

But I think the stress that my

body had, because I had always,

701

:

I've always essentially been

like, my body is my enemy.

702

:

I've never once not thought

my body was my, wasn't my

703

:

Emma: enemy.

704

:

Lacey: and so, 30 years of

stress of fighting yourself

705

:

and, being smart about it.

706

:

at a certain point, a

soldier's gonna go down.

707

:

Emma: It's like a runner who is so

mentally capable of pushing themselves

708

:

that they get to almost the end

of a race and their body snaps.

709

:

Because no matter how mentally strong

you are, your body is still in control.

710

:

Yeah.

711

:

yeah.

712

:

And hormones are developed by your mind.

713

:

They're developed by your gut.

714

:

And when you don't take care of

those, it shuts down your body.

715

:

Lacey: I am so thankful.

716

:

Every day that I found

Joe, and that Joe found me,

717

:

and

718

:

that I made Joe be my boyfriend,

but I am thankful for what I learned

719

:

about myself, probably the most

with him, because he's always just

720

:

let me be whatever I needed to be.

721

:

Emma: Now, relating to your

chronic illness, I really want

722

:

to know, do you ever have moments

where you're thankful for it?

723

:

Which sounds twisted because I know it's

so debilitating and it has taken your

724

:

life and it's taken so many aspects of

who you are as a person, but also there's

725

:

so many things that have come out of it.

726

:

this podcast, like being at home, moving.

727

:

finding a new place to raise your

children, all of those things that

728

:

came out of you having to literally

lay down your life and start fresh.

729

:

are you ever grateful for it?

730

:

Yeah.

731

:

And learning how to listen to your body.

732

:

Lacey: Yeah.

733

:

that part of what I, the reason why I

am better generally today is because I

734

:

have learned how to listen to my body

735

:

Emma: and

736

:

Lacey: and rest and knowing oh,

my body's not out to get me.

737

:

My body is not my enemy.

738

:

I also, like I said, I,

it's almost like it's.

739

:

It's doing the opposite of what

that previous experience was for

740

:

me, where it shut me and made me

smaller, whereas my chronic illness

741

:

somehow has allowed me to be bigger.

742

:

And in a lot of different ways.

743

:

And I'm, I am appreciative of that because

I probably would have always just kept

744

:

my head down and doing the thing that I

thought I was supposed to be doing all

745

:

the time and, didn't take a step back

and think about, what do I actually want?

746

:

Emma: And you would

have been too scared to.

747

:

Lacey: Yeah, I would have

never done it on my own.

748

:

Emma: It was a forced halt.

749

:

Lacey: I think it all happened at

the time it was supposed to happen.

750

:

I, a couple weeks before I really was bad.

751

:

I looked at Joe and I was like,

what if I could do this like writing

752

:

and podcasting thing full time?

753

:

And he was like, let's take it one

754

:

Emma: step

755

:

Lacey: a time.

756

:

And then a few weeks later,

my body was like, you're done.

757

:

So it did make it so that was something.

758

:

that I could do.

759

:

So I, yeah, I am thankful for that.

760

:

I think it's made me a

better mom in a lot of ways.

761

:

It's made me a worse

mom in other ways, but

762

:

Emma: it's made probably

realize, actually matters.

763

:

Does doing matter?

764

:

No.

765

:

Lacey: Yes.

766

:

My children have a level of empathy

767

:

That, Iris was still in, we'll see,

but Isaac, his empathy is off the

768

:

charts and not in a people pleasing

way in a place of genuine care.

769

:

And I think that started when I was

pregnant with Iris and I was constantly

770

:

puking and peeing my pants all the time.

771

:

And he would come to my back and

pat my back while I was puking.

772

:

but I think that has given, that has been

a gift that, I am so proud of the little

773

:

boy that he is

774

:

because he really is so empathetic and

genuinely wants to help and everyone to

775

:

be good and happy and all that stuff.

776

:

And again, not coming from a

place of shame or coming from

777

:

a place of that he should, but

coming from a true place of love.

778

:

And I just, that's really freaking

779

:

Emma: cool.

780

:

Yeah.

781

:

Wow.

782

:

Lacey: I certainly do have

a lot of those things.

783

:

I honestly try not to say some of

those things because I still have the

784

:

battle in my mind of, is this real?

785

:

Am I making this all up?

786

:

I know that's ridiculous,

787

:

Emma: but,

788

:

Lacey: but

789

:

Emma: regardless if it's ridiculous,

you're still, it's a thought

790

:

that goes through your mind

791

:

Lacey: all the time still.

792

:

And but it's because remember,

I never trusted my body.

793

:

Anytime my body gave me messages before

794

:

I listen.

795

:

I told it was wrong and

that I was dramatic.

796

:

Now that I'm actually listening to my body

and I get signals of I need to lay down,

797

:

there's still that voice

of like, but do you really?

798

:

Emma: yes, you

799

:

Lacey: Yeah, that, that's always there.

800

:

And it's,

801

:

again,

802

:

it's smart and it's sneaky.

803

:

Too smart and sneaky.

804

:

I think chronic illness has taught

me is that the world is not in

805

:

black and white, and that two

contradicting things can be very true.

806

:

And that a lot of our

beliefs about the world have

807

:

deprogrammed us from what we are.

808

:

we know

809

:

is right.

810

:

Emma: Right.

811

:

Lacey: And it's so funny to say

that because I've always had a very

812

:

strong moral compass, very strong.

813

:

hence why apparently nobody

just even invited me to do bad

814

:

things.

815

:

Emma: Nope.

816

:

Lacey: but you would

think that internal voice

817

:

of

818

:

what's right and wrong would be able

to apply to a lot of different things.

819

:

Because they're not necessarily there are

certain things that Joe's that's okay.

820

:

And I'm like, no, it's not.

821

:

It's not okay, because this isn't

So you would think I wouldn't have

822

:

internalized so many of those messages so

823

:

Emma: much,

824

:

Lacey: Subconsciously.

825

:

Yeah.

826

:

It's still definitely there.

827

:

And that I've learned the more that I

lean into just me and my instincts and

828

:

what I know, the better I end up being.

829

:

And that a lot of times, a lot of

these things that I've made law

830

:

in my head are completely made up.

831

:

Completely made up.

832

:

And not helpful.

833

:

Emma: No.

834

:

If anything, they're sabotaging you.

835

:

I

836

:

Lacey: I know.

837

:

Because if there's anything with

chronic illness, you get time to think.

838

:

Emma: See, there is a light side.

839

:

There's a silver lining to everything.

840

:

Lacey: There is.

841

:

Emma: Well, did It help also that Becky

had walked a similar road so you saw

842

:

signs of, okay, I've seen this before.

843

:

Lacey: it was literally,

it was Halloween night.

844

:

My mom came over, my mom and dad

came over to help the kids go

845

:

trick or treating because I knew I

wasn't going to be able to make it.

846

:

And I was laying on the couch and

mom looked at me and she was like,

847

:

this is what Becky went through

And and that was my moment of,

848

:

oh, things are going to change.

849

:

that, that was, that's the

moment that I think about.

850

:

So yes.

851

:

It also has made me, I was so judgmental

of Becky and I didn't even realize it.

852

:

And of course I was, right?

853

:

I was judging my, I'm judging myself,

And there are just so many times that

854

:

now that I think back, I'm like, man.

855

:

I really wish I could

have been better for her.

856

:

I could have been there for her better

or believed her better or been less

857

:

about myself in a certain situation.

858

:

Like I

859

:

Emma: But look at your age at that time.

860

:

I know.

861

:

We were at a very selfish age.

862

:

Yeah.

863

:

Where we were living our lives.

864

:

Lacey: I just, yeah.

865

:

So I do think about that

866

:

but it is also nice to be able to

text someone and be like, Hey, did

867

:

you have to take this medicine?

868

:

Did it make you feel like a crazy person?

869

:

did your heart race constantly?

870

:

Oh, okay.

871

:

I'm going to stop taking it then.

872

:

Emma: We're not going to go this route

873

:

Lacey: Yeah, we're going to

learn from your mistakes.

874

:

thanks for going through it first.

875

:

it's actually the episode I recorded

before this one was with Becky.

876

:

And it's called Being the Chaos Friend.

877

:

Emma: What?

878

:

Lacey: And talking about being the

person, because the one, because I saw

879

:

this thing about, being, like having

a chaos friend, and as soon as I read

880

:

it, I was like, oh shit, I am the chaos

881

:

Emma: You are?

882

:

I

883

:

Lacey: I am

884

:

Emma: now.

885

:

Okay, I was about to

886

:

Lacey: I have not always

been the chaos friend.

887

:

No.

888

:

I have shifted into the chaos friend.

889

:

friend where I feel like any time I

talk to someone, I'm like, yeah, yeah,

890

:

I passed out last week, but it's okay.

891

:

I will say Becky's like

breaking bones left and right

892

:

and shit.

893

:

I'm not that, but it's when we moved

and then my dog died and, oh, my grandma

894

:

died earlier in the year and, oh, and

then we all got sick and it's just

895

:

Emma: And then his appendix and then

this daycare and then all of the

896

:

Lacey: things.

897

:

Yeah.

898

:

so that's what I, and because what

it is that my threshold of being able

899

:

to just handle it has lowered, right?

900

:

I have a chronic illness.

901

:

I can't just handle

902

:

my

903

:

dog dying and not, it not be

a really big deal for me, or.

904

:

my husband , having appendicitis

and having to get his appendix out.

905

:

No, that upends my life

because of my chronic

906

:

illness.

907

:

And so when I read it, I was like,

oh shit, I'm the chaos friend.

908

:

And I, And then I had this moment where

I was like, who's my OG chaos friend?

909

:

It's my

910

:

Emma: big sister.

911

:

She started that.

912

:

Lacey: I have not always

been the chaos friend.

913

:

And she and I actually talked about this,

how a lot of her stuff is outward facing.

914

:

messages about her and how that

affected her, whereas mine's very

915

:

inward facing of, like, push it

down, push it down, push it down.

916

:

and so it's just interesting how those two

things, even though they affected us from

917

:

different directions, had a big impact.

918

:

Emma: I think that's the interesting

part about friendship, though, is I

919

:

think at different phases of life,

everybody will be the chaos friend.

920

:

Lacey: five years ago, would you have ever

921

:

thought I

922

:

would be the

923

:

Emma: would be your best

924

:

Lacey: no,

925

:

No.

926

:

Never.

927

:

No.

928

:

I

929

:

Emma: think we've both had

times in our life, though,

930

:

remember when you broke your arm?

931

:

Lacey: I do.

932

:

I broke my arm several

933

:

Emma: times.

934

:

Yep.

935

:

and then you got hit by a

936

:

car.

937

:

I did.

938

:

Yeah.

939

:

I don't know, like I feel like that

big chunk of my life when I was going

940

:

through the divorce and moving out on

my own and trying to literally keep

941

:

my head afloat, that was my chaos time

where anytime I talked to anybody,

942

:

it was just like, Oh, how you doing?

943

:

And it's after a while it's I don't

like, can it not be about me right now?

944

:

Like I want to talk about something else.

945

:

Yeah.

946

:

Yeah.

947

:

Lacey: I don't want to have to recount

948

:

All of it.

949

:

Emma: Yes.

950

:

It's like retelling the same

951

:

Lacey: that's why I literally, I

think at one point on Facebook,

952

:

I posted don't ask me how I am.

953

:

If you want to know, listen to the

954

:

I don't want to talk about it

955

:

Emma: anymore.

956

:

I know.

957

:

and it's exhausting.

958

:

It's

959

:

Lacey: exhausting.

960

:

And yeah, I don't know.

961

:

I will.

962

:

I do think it's funny.

963

:

Cause I do think growing up, If

someone was more of the chaos

964

:

friend, it would have been you.

965

:

Emma: Absolutely.

966

:

Absolutely.

967

:

Lacey: I have always been pretty

968

:

Emma: You are very steady.

969

:

But it's funny because opposites attract.

970

:

So my husband is the most

steady person on the planet.

971

:

And the reason I'm attracted to

him is because he is so steady.

972

:

Lacey: Joe's very steady

973

:

Emma: too.

974

:

That consistent.

975

:

Who knew that football

players are not sexy?

976

:

Consistent engineers is where it's at.

977

:

Lacey: actually , feeling safe

with someone and knowing what's

978

:

going to happen with them?

979

:

did you know that's possible?

980

:

Emma: Yeah.

981

:

Did you know?

982

:

I

983

:

don't need you to bring me home flowers.

984

:

I need that you are going to

unload the dishwasher every time

985

:

Lacey: I can have feelings and you aren't

going to be mad at me for having feelings?

986

:

Oh my gosh.

987

:

Now, are you overwhelmed by them?

988

:

Yes.

989

:

Of

990

:

course.

991

:

But we can work that

992

:

out.

993

:

Emma: Passion with passion

doesn't really work.

994

:

One passionate Yeah.

995

:

Lacey: and it could work, but

you both have to be able to flex.

996

:

And I think that's, yeah.

997

:

Yeah.

998

:

I don't

999

:

Emma: know.

:

00:41:07,503 --> 00:41:08,623

It's a whole different ballgame.

:

00:41:08,818 --> 00:41:09,853

Lacey: It really is.

:

00:41:09,853 --> 00:41:10,553

It really is.

:

00:41:10,603 --> 00:41:12,103

I should actually try to wrap this up.

:

00:41:12,153 --> 00:41:13,603

Thanks for joining me today, Emma.

:

00:41:13,958 --> 00:41:17,718

Emma: Oh, this was truly one of the

best days I've had in a long time.

:

00:41:17,958 --> 00:41:18,278

Thank

:

00:41:18,308 --> 00:41:18,498

Lacey: you.

:

00:41:18,848 --> 00:41:21,118

I'm glad I'm glad that

we just got to chat.

:

00:41:21,368 --> 00:41:21,398

Emma: I know.

:

00:41:22,688 --> 00:41:24,498

It was so fun recounting my childhood,

:

00:41:24,773 --> 00:41:24,948

Lacey: honestly.

:

00:41:24,958 --> 00:41:27,408

I know, I didn't realize how much I needed

:

00:41:27,476 --> 00:41:27,598

Emma: that.

:

00:41:27,678 --> 00:41:28,148

I know.

:

00:41:28,318 --> 00:41:28,908

So many good

:

00:41:29,338 --> 00:41:29,718

Lacey: Yeah,

:

00:41:29,948 --> 00:41:33,438

because I've been really focused

on the not great parts lately.

:

00:41:33,478 --> 00:41:38,008

And so to be like, yeah, no, things

are really lovely in so many ways.

:

00:41:38,518 --> 00:41:40,518

Emma: And how can I make

sure my kids have this much

:

00:41:40,636 --> 00:41:40,758

Lacey: fun?

:

00:41:40,768 --> 00:41:40,998

Yes.

:

00:41:41,758 --> 00:41:42,208

Yeah.

:

00:41:42,448 --> 00:41:43,188

Absolutely.

:

00:41:43,228 --> 00:41:45,593

and then also, thanks for

being my lifelong friend.

:

00:41:46,698 --> 00:41:47,378

Emma: It's my joy.

:

00:41:47,598 --> 00:41:47,848

Lacey: Yeah.

:

00:41:48,258 --> 00:41:48,518

All right.

:

00:41:48,688 --> 00:41:49,228

Thanks, Emma.

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