Episode 3 - From Hobby to Career: The Journey of Jared O'Flaherty

In this episode of the Faith and Family Filmmakers Podcast, hosts Geoffrey Whitt and Jaclyn Whitt interview Jared O'Flaherty, director and producer of the award-winning, faith-based crime drama series, Vindication. 

Jared shares his journey from a career in IT,  describing how filming church youth events evolved into becoming a full-time filmmaker. He emphasizes the importance of starting small and pursuing your passion relentlessly. Jared gives insights on working with the cast and crew of his series, and how deep involvement and teamwork enabled them to maintain high-quality output despite a limited budget and schedule. 

He also discusses:

• His Transition from Hobby to Career
• Balancing Life and Career in Filmmaking
• The Challenges of Pursuing a Career in Filmmaking
• The Value of Volunteering and Gaining Experience
• The Evolution of Vindication Series
• The Art of Writing a Series
• The Unique Approach to Crime Drama in Vindication
• Where to Watch Vindication

Jarod O'Flaherty, director and producer of the award winning, faith-based crime drama series Vindication, lives in Texas with his wife of 20+ years and his five children. Previous works include the feature film, My Son, and the World War 2 documentary, We Were There.

vindicationseries.com

https://www.facebook.com/VindicationSeries

https://www.instagram.com/vindicationseries/

The Faith & Family Filmmakers podcast helps filmmakers who share a Christian worldview stay in touch, informed, and inspired. Releasing new episodes every Monday, we interview experts from varying fields of filmmaking; from screenwriters, actors, directors, and producers, to film scorers,  talent agents, and distributors. 

It is produced and hosted by Geoffrey Whitt and Jaclyn Whitt , and is brought to you by the Faith & Family Filmmakers Association

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Geoffrey Whitt: 00:00:00

Hey there, welcome back to Faith and Family Filmmakers Podcast with Geoffrey and Jaclyn Whitt.

Jaclyn Whitt: 00:00:04

Hello

Geoff: 00:00:06

Today we're talking with Jared O'Flaherty.

Jaclyn: 00:00:09

Jared O'Flaherty is the director and producer of the award winning faith based crime drama series Vindication.

Jaclyn: 00:00:15

He lives in Texas with his wife of 20 plus years and his five children.

Jaclyn: 00:00:20

Previously he's worked on a feature film called My Son and the World War II documentary We Were There.

Jaclyn: 00:00:28

Welcome to the show, Jared.

Jaclyn: 00:00:30

Jarod O'Flarherty: Hey, thanks for reaching out and inviting me to be on here, and I look forward to having some good conversation today.

Geoff: 00:00:36

Good to have you.

Jaclyn: 00:00:37

I want to know how you even got started in film, like, and what does your life look like, from before you got into film and then now?

Jarod: 00:00:46

Well, when I graduated high school, I went straight into the IT field, working with computers and networks and software, all that sort of stuff.

Jarod: 00:00:55

And filmmaking, for me, was just a hobby at that time.

Jarod: 00:00:58

It was something that I did with my church group, uh, they would have youth events and I would kind of, I had a camera and a computer at the time.

Jarod: 00:01:05

And so I was kind of the guy who would go around and shoot these things.

Jarod: 00:01:09

And it was just, it was a hobby.

Jarod: 00:01:10

It was for fun.

Jarod: 00:01:11

And each time I wanted to make it a little bit better.

Jarod: 00:01:13

I had an audience at the time with our church families, you know, they'd want to see what their teenagers were doing at these youth events.

Jarod: 00:01:20

And so that gave me an, an audience and just kind of a platform to work on my craft.

Jarod: 00:01:25

But like I said, it was just a hobby.

Jarod: 00:01:26

I was working professionally in IT and did that for about, uh, 12, 14, 15 years.

Jarod: 00:01:34

And, during that time, technology continued to advance to where you could start doing things that had more of a, uh, top level film quality about them.

Jarod: 00:01:42

Whereas the early stuff I did definitely look like home video.

Jarod: 00:01:45

So, as things advanced, and I had been an editor and had put these things together for a while, it just gave me an opportunity to start exploring the narrative space, um, with documentary, with music videos, those sort of things, even a feature film that our church did.

Jarod: 00:02:00

That's what ultimately led into the series that I work on now, Vindication, uh, it's just kind of one thing after another over a 15 to 20 year journey.

Jarod: 00:02:09

And now for the last few years, it has become my full time profession, uh, working on this series basically from January to December, every week, whether it's, it's pre production, scripts, post production, shoot it, whatever it may be, it's become my job for, um, the past going on four years now.

Jarod: 00:02:27

And so I've stepped away from the IT field.

Jarod: 00:02:30

I'm doing that.

Jarod: 00:02:31

Um, I guess your question was like, what does it look like?

Jaclyn: 00:02:34

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:02:34

How do you balance like life and the career?

Jaclyn: 00:02:37

Um, cause I know, especially when, when you're pursuing something, there's a lot of time that you're putting like overtime and doing work and, you know, trying to break into something.

Jaclyn: 00:02:47

And so how does that look for you?

Jarod: 00:02:49

It's tricky, and you know, my wife and I have had many discussions about this.

Jarod: 00:02:53

We have five children.

Jarod: 00:02:54

Uh, well, one of them's nineteen now, but I, still a kid, alright?

Jarod: 00:02:58

They're still my kid.

Jarod: 00:02:59

Anyway, uh, so we have five children, and she has mentioned that it is hard to know when I am working and when I'm doing something for leasure You know, especially if it's at a computer or even on the phone.

Jarod: 00:03:12

You know, I could be on my phone, but I'm reviewing an edit of an episode, you know, or I'm watching something goofy on YouTube, you know, and so for her, it's hard to know when is he working?

Jarod: 00:03:23

When is he?

Jarod: 00:03:24

available to help out with whatever may be needed.

Jarod: 00:03:28

And so that's, it's a tricky thing.

Jarod: 00:03:30

And honestly, we've tried like, okay, we're going to set hours or I'm going to put up a sign if I'm working, you know, and that is just difficult because there will be weekends that, Hey, I'm taking a weekend off other weekends, I'm working straight through it because we have a deadline or something that has to get done.

Jarod: 00:03:44

So it's very different than those that work a nine to five, come home, clock out, have a weekend.

Jarod: 00:03:51

It really spreads.

Jarod: 00:03:52

And some of that is my fault, you know?

Jarod: 00:03:54

I'll, yeah, I can deliver this by Monday, and then I'm realizing I'm now gonna It's my fault, I shouldn't have said that.

Jarod: 00:04:00

So, that's how it looks.

Jarod: 00:04:02

And I've also, you know, Something I've noticed recently is that back when, as I told you earlier in my story, when this was kind of just a hobby on the side, there was a lot of fun involved in it, you know?

Jarod: 00:04:12

I was doing this in my spare time for fun to make some neat video.

Jarod: 00:04:16

Now that it's become a job, it does take a little bit of the fun factor out of it,

Jarod: 00:04:20

That it's work with deadlines to get done, and while yes, I still enjoy...

Jarod: 00:04:25

yeah, I'm still doing something that lots of people would love to be doing, I never take that for granted, but You do lose some of that joy factor in it when it becomes work and repetitive and that sort of thing.

Jaclyn: 00:04:37

Yeah, I guess that's part of the difference between, um, a hobby and a career is with a hobby, you can do basically just the stuff that's fun, right?

Jaclyn: 00:04:46

Whatever brings you joy.

Jaclyn: 00:04:47

But when it comes to a career, uh, you have to pursue that spirit of excellence and you have to go above and beyond.

Jaclyn: 00:04:54

So you have to discipline yourself to learn the things that maybe you didn't know when it was just a hobby I know when I work with, uh, my students and I let them know, like, that's the difference when you're writing between a hobby and a career.

Jaclyn: 00:05:06

If you just want this to be a hobby, take as much joy from it as you can.

Jaclyn: 00:05:09

Sure, you can learn stuff and get better at it.

Jaclyn: 00:05:11

But, when you're going to pursue it as a career, you have to pay attention to those details that, You're allowed to ignore if it's just a hobby.

Jarod: 00:05:19

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Jarod: 00:05:21

And you know another the fact that it's something that's creative, you know, it's not like i'm Uh painting a fence or folding laundry.

Jarod: 00:05:29

There's this creative aspect whether it's editing whether it's writing whatever it may be there will be some times that, you know, maybe in our family, Hey, Jared, you got 15 minutes to go work.

Jarod: 00:05:38

And I'm like, to get in the headspace to write a script, 15 minutes doesn't do a whole lot for you.

Jarod: 00:05:44

Or just the time you get in the flow of things, then you have to stop to go do something else.

Jarod: 00:05:50

So you almost have to.

Jarod: 00:05:51

section off time and say, Hey, I'm going to dedicate this time to this and put the phone somewhere else and not get distracted.

Jarod: 00:05:59

So that way I can really have this creative moment.

Jarod: 00:06:01

So it's different than other jobs or other tasks,

Jaclyn: 00:06:04

mm hmm.

Jarod: 00:06:04

that perhaps you can knock out some of it in 30 minutes time.

Jarod: 00:06:07

Speaking of the series I'm working on, Vindication, the first two episodes that we did, and it was never intended, in my view, to become a series.

Jarod: 00:06:15

I was just doing a short film with my church, um, which was now our first episode, and then about two years later, a year and a half later, we got the opportunity to do a second one, which at the time we called Vindication 2.

Jarod: 00:06:26

Like, that was what it was going to be, just one and two.

Jarod: 00:06:29

Anyway, the first two, I, didn't get paid.

Jarod: 00:06:31

I wasn't, on the, the budget anywhere.

Jarod: 00:06:34

It was a hobby.

Jarod: 00:06:35

It was ministry work.

Jarod: 00:06:36

It takes a lot of time to put that together and all the work.

Jarod: 00:06:40

And it again, was my wife that stepped in and said like, Jared, if this keeps going, you're going to need to get paid something because you were putting in a month's worth of work.

Jarod: 00:06:49

And at the time I was self employed or had a small business.

Jarod: 00:06:52

So, I'm giving a month away that, you know, we're taking a financial hit.

Jarod: 00:06:58

She was the one cause me, I probably, yeah, I'll take that money and I'll put on another actor, another location or whatnot.

Jarod: 00:07:04

And she's like, no, you, for this to be sustainable, you're going to have to figure yourself into it because you are putting in.

Jarod: 00:07:11

More work than anyone else who is a part of this.

Jarod: 00:07:14

Everyone else is getting paid and you're not.

Jarod: 00:07:15

So after the first two episodes, we had to change that a little bit because like I said, it went from hobby to work.

Jaclyn: 00:07:23

Yeah, and that, I guess, that's the stage that is really difficult when you're wanting to break into it, and so you still have to sustain your life and your living and, your family, all of that, while you're also doing something that is, productive that will lead you into that kind of job.

Jaclyn: 00:07:40

And so for a time, you're juggling both and, you know, full time in a sense.

Jaclyn: 00:07:45

And I don't know if you ended up feeling burnt out, but do you think that there are people who end up getting burnt out during this stage where they haven't broken in yet, so they're doing everything they can, but they're really like pouring so much of themselves into the project, but they still have to sustain their lives and, their lifestyle and everything like that in the process?

Jarod: 00:08:06

Yeah, I mean, I can think of, of a handful of people that I know personally or have interacted with that have done some pretty big projects.

Jarod: 00:08:14

And now they're not doing anything anymore.

Jarod: 00:08:16

And, you know, you always wonder what happened?

Jarod: 00:08:18

Was it, did life step in?

Jarod: 00:08:20

Was it the final product maybe didn't match up to their expectations?

Jarod: 00:08:24

Was it a financial thing that, you know, maybe they spent a lot on it, but didn't make it, you know, what it could be, but there's certainly that opportunity for burnout, I think when you pour so much of yourself into the art form and then whatever your expected results are, don't fully materialize, you know?

Jarod: 00:08:41

That's what made it easy for me, and maybe while we've had some success with our show continuing, is that my expectations from our very first episode, there was no financial return needed.

Jarod: 00:08:52

It wasn't going to become my job.

Jarod: 00:08:53

I, I had other things going on and that was just something on the side.

Jarod: 00:08:58

And Hey, if it got into a film festival or some people like it, great, but otherwise it's not.

Jarod: 00:09:02

So there wasn't that opportunity for burnout because there wasn't this expectation on the end that it was going to have to do these, these huge things.

Jarod: 00:09:09

so I think that can play a factor into it as well as how much weight is on you that this has to achieve a certain results, based on what you're pouring into it.

Jarod: 00:09:19

I would also like to circle back just for a split second.

Jarod: 00:09:23

How I mentioned, you know, the first two episodes I worked on, I wasn't getting paid with our, our show.

Jarod: 00:09:28

Now we do have times that people will come in on a volunteer basis to work with us and they'll reach out and say they want to, Hey, can I come work with you?

Jarod: 00:09:35

You don't have to pay me.

Jarod: 00:09:35

I just want experience.

Jarod: 00:09:36

I just want to learn.

Jarod: 00:09:38

And, uh, you know, you always feel a little awkward, like.

Jarod: 00:09:41

having people work that aren't getting paid, and you gotta tell them to go do stuff, and what time to be there, and how late to stay.

Jarod: 00:09:48

But, one, I did do it myself, and two, it afforded me some of the opportunities that I've had now, and we have success stories from our set of people who came on, in that capacity, volunteer, and they showed up and all they want to do is learn.

Jarod: 00:10:02

They were just a sponge to learn anything and everything they can.

Jarod: 00:10:06

And two of them that come to mind in particular went on to careers in the film world where we couldn't even book them to come back and work on ours anymore because they were so busy.

Jaclyn: 00:10:17

That's fantastic.

Jarod: 00:10:18

And so and again, and they were.

Jarod: 00:10:19

Yeah, they were people that showed up and like, don't pay me.

Jarod: 00:10:22

I just want to learn.

Jarod: 00:10:23

And so, you know, there, there are jokes and memes that go around about, Oh, working for exposure, you know, it's a rip off.

Jarod: 00:10:29

Don't do it.

Jarod: 00:10:30

We, we have bills to pay.

Jarod: 00:10:32

Certainly understand that.

Jarod: 00:10:33

But when you're early on in your career and if you're willing to be the sponge, it certainly can afford opportunities later on, that you wouldn't have otherwise.

Jarod: 00:10:42

And I can say that having been someone did that myself for the beginning of my film career.

Jarod: 00:10:49

And I think, that's something that exists in, in a lot of fields.

Jarod: 00:10:53

you know, if you can go and gain some experience, experience, that will help you to actually, to put something on your resume, and I guess for actors, I'll say, uh, actors need reels.

Jarod: 00:11:04

And so if there's a scene that they're in, it helps them to build that portfolio.

Jarod: 00:11:09

So, okay.

Jarod: 00:11:10

So talking about vindication, and I know we talked about like, perseverance and, and things moving forward and the time that it took to get, you know, from episode one to episode two and then on from there.

Jarod: 00:11:21

Uh, you're heading into now, is it season four?

Jarod: 00:11:24

Jarod O'Flarherty: yes, yes, season four.

Jaclyn: 00:11:27

Wow, that's, that's amazing.

Jaclyn: 00:11:29

How did it go from like, okay, the concept for the first episode, I love that it has a twist and I won't ruin it for people, but really you need to go see it if you haven't.

Jaclyn: 00:11:38

But I love the twist that's in it and I think it's in the second episode and most of the first season, There's some kind of twist in the episode and then we move into getting to know the characters themselves more and their home lives and stuff like that.

Jaclyn: 00:11:52

So how has it been writing a series?

Jaclyn: 00:11:55

Because there's a lot more commitment to the story, and the characters than just, you know, writing a one off, here's a short script that might be fun to put in a festival.

Jarod: 00:12:05

Yeah, I love the series format because, you know, you mentioned season four.

Jarod: 00:12:10

So when it's done, we will have done 36 episodes and I've gotten to tell 36 different stories, you know?

Jarod: 00:12:18

And it's you could think of like a feature film, but it's just condensed, you know, some condensed stories.

Jarod: 00:12:22

Um, it's been a long time since I've worked in the feature space.

Jarod: 00:12:26

As I sit now, it is so appealing because you just have a start point and an end point, and you put your story in and obviously that what story you do has to be good, but you have more real estate as far as screen time and all that to work with, whereas in a series you have to tell a good story, and everyone almost needs to be better than the one before it.

Jarod: 00:12:47

Like you need to continually be improving or people are like, and the series gone dry or it's, you know, it's kind of dying off.

Jarod: 00:12:53

It's lost its momentum.

Jarod: 00:12:55

So you've got to keep coming up with even better stories.

Jarod: 00:12:58

the first season you get the low hanging fruit, you know, you grab those stories you've had in mind for years and years and plug them into episodes.

Jarod: 00:13:06

And then people go, Oh, this is great.

Jarod: 00:13:07

Do another one.

Jarod: 00:13:08

now you're a new season , you gotta go , well, hold on , do I have 10 more good stories that I can tell?

Jarod: 00:13:14

And then the season 3 and 4, so, it's definitely a challenge, whereas, again, a movie or a feature film, you just have to find one story you really love and tell that one and do it all in that time.

Jarod: 00:13:27

So that's kind of why I enjoy it.

Jarod: 00:13:30

What goes into it?

Jarod: 00:13:31

I will say that with our characters, a lot of times they're, they have grown organically, meaning we introduce them and see them in an episode and then go, okay, what would this character do next?

Jarod: 00:13:40

Or what's something else that would happen?

Jarod: 00:13:42

Uh, for example, people that know season one, we introduced the character of Kevin, who's kind of the, the tech nerd, the lab guy at the police station in episode four.

Jarod: 00:13:51

And, uh, you know, he just popped in a little bit, it was kind of fun, kind of lighthearted.

Jarod: 00:13:56

And the so, once we get to like episode seven and eight, it's like, Hey, what if he had a crush on this other, female detective there in the office?

Jarod: 00:14:04

What would that look like?

Jarod: 00:14:05

So it wasn't that we introduced him in episode four with that in mind.

Jarod: 00:14:09

It was just after seeing him on screen, you start like, Hey, I think that would be interesting to explore.

Jarod: 00:14:15

And so that becomes a storyline that continues through multiple seasons.

Jaclyn: 00:14:19

And was he the one that originally auditioned for a different role and then was cast as this one?

Jaclyn: 00:14:24

I heard a story that there was someone that auditioned for a role.

Jaclyn: 00:14:27

They didn't get it, but they actually got cast in a different role.

Jarod: 00:14:30

That's the one, yeah, yeah, Matt Holmes.

Jarod: 00:14:32

So, episode 2, he auditioned to be the boyfriend that was kind of the subject of the storyline in episode 2.

Jarod: 00:14:40

And, uh, didn't go with him.

Jarod: 00:14:42

Really, really liked him, you know?

Jarod: 00:14:45

And I can imagine for him being an actor, he had auditioned for it, doesn't get the call back, you're down, you're bummed out, Oh man, what did I miss?

Jarod: 00:14:52

But on my side, I'm like, I really like this guy.

Jarod: 00:14:54

I just don't think you know, I don't want to use him up in just one episode.

Jarod: 00:14:57

And so it comes back and then his character, he gets cast in a new role that ends up being in 14, 15 episodes.

Jarod: 00:15:04

So, it's a good story of someone not getting the role, but it ended

Jaclyn: 00:15:07

Mm hmm.

Jarod: 00:15:08

up being for the better instead of

Jaclyn: 00:15:10

Oh, definitely.

Jaclyn: 00:15:11

Yeah, and he's very much a part of season three.

Jarod: 00:15:14

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jarod: 00:15:15

And audiences love him, honestly.

Jarod: 00:15:17

He's like a fan favorite character.

Jarod: 00:15:19

I mean, people always, We want to see more of him!

Jarod: 00:15:21

Where's he at?

Jarod: 00:15:22

I love him!

Jarod: 00:15:23

so, again, it was one audition that he didn't get, but it planted the seed in our mind for what it could be.

Geoff: 00:15:30

you've got a great cast overall tell us a little bit about working with some of these people and, what the experience has been.

Jarod: 00:15:39

Yeah, um, well, you said it right.

Jarod: 00:15:41

Incredible cast.

Jarod: 00:15:42

And that's one of the things I'm very proud of about our show, um, that I would point people to without hesitation and say, hey, we have some really top quality people in all the roles, big or small, you know, whether it's a guest star, recurring character, even someone that pops in for a line here and there.

Jarod: 00:15:58

I learned early on that your show or episode will be judged by its weakest spot, not necessarily by its strongest.

Jarod: 00:16:05

So If you have that one person come in like, Hey, I'm just going to let my neighbor come do this line.

Jarod: 00:16:10

And it's flat and it just does not fit.

Jarod: 00:16:12

People will remember that because it'll stand out to them, so...

Jaclyn: 00:16:15

Mm hmm.

Jarod: 00:16:16

when we cast new people, I let them know, Hey, in my opinion, there is no small role because the smallest, anything that you think is small could really wreck the episode.

Jarod: 00:16:24

But the main cast members that we've worked with, you know, honestly, we don't really rehearse much.

Jarod: 00:16:28

We, we don't have to.

Jarod: 00:16:30

They just have been so gifted that I go sit in the director's chair and I'm like, all right, let's see what's about to happen.

Jarod: 00:16:36

Like, I want to see this.

Jarod: 00:16:37

And there may be a line that I go, okay, I don't think they understand why the character is saying that line.

Jarod: 00:16:42

So I'll go give them some direction on that.

Jarod: 00:16:44

Usually it's the background.

Jarod: 00:16:45

Hey, the reason you're saying this is because two years ago you pulled over a guy.

Jarod: 00:16:50

And he ran from you, and that, that's what shapes this, oh, okay, and then it adjusts how they're saying things.

Jarod: 00:16:56

But for the most part, I, I get to be an audience member, and I just sit back and watch the show as I'm in the director's chair, seeing it all come together, and that, that makes it fun, you know.

Jarod: 00:17:05

Having gifted,, gifted people.

Jarod: 00:17:07

A lot of times, this isn't a, uh, recommendation of how to do it, but we, we work on such a tight schedule, and I'm wearing a lot of hats as a producer, director, that usually when we get to set, I haven't read the script in weeks.

Jarod: 00:17:19

And, uh, like I said, that's not recommended.

Jarod: 00:17:21

I wish that I was spending the week before reading the script, but I get there as a director.

Jarod: 00:17:26

I haven't read the script in weeks, so I'm like, okay, what scene are we doing?

Jarod: 00:17:28

Oh, yeah, okay, I remember this.

Jarod: 00:17:30

But the actors, they know it.

Jarod: 00:17:32

They just start bringing it to life, and I can trust them that, okay, that's what was written.

Jarod: 00:17:37

And I just get to sit back as an audience member and go, Oh, yeah, yeah, I remember this scene now.

Jarod: 00:17:41

And once you get a few takes in, it gets refreshed.

Jarod: 00:17:43

But that just is a testament to the quality of the people that we have worked with and that we have had become a part of the show.

Jarod: 00:17:50

And some of them, like Todd being our lead character, he never auditioned.

Jarod: 00:17:54

I met him at an event once, told him I was thinking about doing a short film, would he come be the cop?

Jarod: 00:17:58

He was listed as like, third or fourth in the credits for that episode, you know?

Jarod: 00:18:02

He was just kind of this...

Jarod: 00:18:04

And then he turns into our lead character for the whole series, and

Jaclyn: 00:18:07

Mm hmm

Jarod: 00:18:08

we have thrown at him, he has just excelled.

Jarod: 00:18:11

And bringing that character and bringing the series to life.

Jaclyn: 00:18:15

And so then when he came to do that first episode, when it was just a hobby for you, was he just helping you out?

Jaclyn: 00:18:22

Like, was he actually volunteering?

Jarod: 00:18:26

Uh, no, he was paid on that one.

Jarod: 00:18:28

the crew and cast members for the first episode, they were paid.

Jarod: 00:18:32

And that's where I wanted the little bit of budget we had to go, you know?

Jarod: 00:18:35

he was local, so it wasn't a long drive for him.

Jarod: 00:18:38

We sent him the script, he took a look, he said, Hey, this looks good.

Jarod: 00:18:41

I think I like this Jared guy okay, so, you know, I'm gonna make a few bucks for a couple of days, so sure, I'll go out and do that.

Jarod: 00:18:49

And so that's really kind of how it started for him.

Jarod: 00:18:51

He put trust in us, I wasn't really, didn't have a lot on my resume at that point, um, but he looked at the script and just In meeting, having a conversation with me, felt like, okay, I'm willing to give this a shot and, luckily showed up and everything went really smooth.

Jarod: 00:19:06

And that is what kind of hooked him to stay a part of it.

Geoff: 00:19:10

I guess that's one of the, uh, differences and advantages of a series as well.

Geoff: 00:19:14

In the fact that you're working with the same people, over and over, you get to know them.

Geoff: 00:19:19

It would be true about your crew as well, I'm guessing.

Jarod: 00:19:22

Yeah, we have, I don't want to misquote, but I think we've worked together for 134 days now, which doesn't sound like a whole lot when you spread it over five years.

Jarod: 00:19:31

But let me tell you, each one of those days is 10 to 12 hours of, you know, it's not sitting around talking.

Jarod: 00:19:37

I mean, it is work from the minute you land on set until the last, vehicle leaves at the end.

Jarod: 00:19:43

Those are long, long days, longer than any corporate world, cubicle day I ever had.

Jarod: 00:19:49

I mean, these were, these are all intense days, but for the most part, we've kept together the majority of the sound and camera crew.

Jarod: 00:19:56

There've been people come in and out, uh, hair and makeup.

Jarod: 00:19:59

There've just been a lot of them that we've worked together.

Jarod: 00:20:01

And so we're able to shoot an episode in about four days, which if you look at some of our episodes that have 10 different locations, 30 cast members, I mean, everything's, but we've worked together so long that we just know each other.

Jarod: 00:20:14

Our hair and makeup person knows about how long they have to get them ready.

Jarod: 00:20:18

Our camera team and lighting, they, they know based on the schedule, Hey, he's going to need about this much time to shoot the scene.

Jarod: 00:20:25

And we just have that cohesiveness.

Jarod: 00:20:27

And one of the things I like about it too, is that as the director, we've worked together so much that if I get in a spot that I go, Hey.

Jarod: 00:20:35

I'm gonna need one more, even though we're over scheduled, or we're running behind, or we've already shot this eight times.

Jarod: 00:20:42

There's the trust that nobody on the crew or cast groans, rolls their eyes, you know, drops their shoulders.

Jarod: 00:20:51

They all trust, Okay, if Jared says we need one more, then we really do need one more.

Jarod: 00:20:56

And so that's just a great feeling for me, so.

Jarod: 00:20:59

I don't take advantage of it, of course.

Jarod: 00:21:01

I use that when I need it.

Jarod: 00:21:02

But that just really helps us be able to put out a quality product with limited time and resources.

Jaclyn: 00:21:09

Amazing.

Jaclyn: 00:21:10

Did you always love crime drama?

Jaclyn: 00:21:12

How did you get into...

Jaclyn: 00:21:13

I know it's faith based, but it's crime drama.

Jarod: 00:21:16

Yeah, I've honestly never really even watched any crime drama shows.

Jarod: 00:21:20

Um, I'm not a fan of them so much.

Jarod: 00:21:22

I, the way I tell the story is I walked in one night and my wife was watching a crime drama.

Jarod: 00:21:28

And it was first coming on and they like showed the crime, what had happened.

Jarod: 00:21:32

And then they spent the next 40 minutes solving that crime, and the idea that popped to me, I go, you know, they could make this more interesting if you just start with the investigation.

Jarod: 00:21:41

So not only are you trying to figure out who did it, you're also trying to figure out what exactly happened, and that way you have two layers of information that the audience is hanging on, and that's what our first episode is.

Jarod: 00:21:51

You jump right into the investigation, and it's not until the end that you even know what happened.

Jarod: 00:21:56

As you're trying to figure out who it is and all those sort of things.

Jarod: 00:21:59

So that was really where it happened.

Jarod: 00:22:01

And again, I really don't watch crime dramas.

Jarod: 00:22:04

It's intentional now because I don't want to watch something.

Jarod: 00:22:07

And then a year later I'm writing a script and have this great idea pop into my head, not realizing it was something I had watched previously.

Jarod: 00:22:15

I will also say that of the many, many crime drama series that are out there, they, they can tend to become formulaic.

Jarod: 00:22:22

when you've done 20, 25 seasons and there's 20 episodes a season, there's a formula there of this happens, and then this, and a couple of suspects, and then a little twist.

Jarod: 00:22:32

You know, it's just formulaic

Jarod: 00:22:33

. With Vindication, I like the approach that anytime an audience member sits down and hits play on an episode, they have no clue what is about to happen in front of them, you know?

Jarod: 00:22:43

It may be guys going on a camping trip, it may be a flag football game, it may be a murder, it may be a cat in a tree.

Jarod: 00:22:50

It's just that they don't know what it is and what direction it's going to go.

Jarod: 00:22:54

And so staying away from the formulaic crime dramas, I think, has helped me at least keep that approach to story telling where you're not falling into patterns of just doing the same thing over and changing a few characters or a few details.

Jaclyn: 00:23:07

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:23:08

Perfect.

Jaclyn: 00:23:08

Um, So we're going to talk more and get into even some, distribution realities, uh, in our members only portion, but before we finish out this portion, do you have any final words you'd like to say to our listeners?

Geoff: 00:23:22

And telll us where they can watch Vindication..

Jarod: 00:23:25

Okay, yeah.

Jarod: 00:23:26

Final words, I guess my word of encouragement that I give to anyone who's a filmmaker, actor, or whatever, is don't think about doing your craft or talk about it, but actually go out and do it and whatever is in the way of you doing it, don't let that be the excuse that keeps you from trying it.

Jarod: 00:23:45

So if you want to go make a film and it's gotta be with, uh, uh, Toothpicks, as your characters, you know, then go do it.

Jarod: 00:23:54

As opposed to, well, I have to have this, I have to have this, I need to raise funds, I need to do If you're not doing it, you're gonna go stagnant, you're gonna go stale.

Jarod: 00:24:01

And same thing for actors, "Well, I'm just not getting any jobs".

Jarod: 00:24:04

Well, there are people out there that would love for you to come be on their set.

Jarod: 00:24:07

So go out and do those, as opposed to, Oh, I'm not booking any roles.

Jarod: 00:24:11

That's always my words of encouragement to people.

Jarod: 00:24:14

Vindication Season 1 is now on YouTube, free to watch.

Jarod: 00:24:17

Anybody can go on there, binge the first season, and then afterward, Seasons 2, 3, 4.

Jarod: 00:24:23

They're gonna be a variety of places.

Jarod: 00:24:24

Redeem TV is our primary partner.

Jarod: 00:24:27

They're a donor supported streaming service.

Jarod: 00:24:30

It's on Amazon Prime.

Jarod: 00:24:31

it's on PureFlix and DVD, you know, traditional media.

Jarod: 00:24:35

It's available in a lot of places, but the easiest spot to get started is season one on YouTube.

Jaclyn: 00:24:41

Thank you so much.

Geoff: 00:24:42

Awesome.

Geoff: 00:24:43

And We'll make sure we get any links that you would like to provide to our listeners and viewers , and get them on our, uh, show notes, and, it's been a pleasure talking to you, and we look forward to talking with you more.

Jarod: 00:24:56

Yeah.

Jarod: 00:24:56

thanks for having the conversation with me.