Today I’m joined by Marjorie Huebner. Marjorie is a dedicated Rosen Method practitioner. She’s here to share with us this profound healing method. It is known that unprocessed experiences and emotions are held within our body, and through healing touch and meeting the client precisely where she is guided, Marjorie is able to assist in unlocking and releasing stuck emotion. The process is exquisite and the backstory of Marion Rosen is not to be missed. Join us today to learn about this little known therapeutic technique. I hope you enjoy today’s episode as much as I did!

EPISODE TAKEAWAYS (what you’ll learn):

• Who was Marion Rosen & how she established The Rosen Method
• Marjorie’s background as a dancer and massage therapist prior to becoming a
• Rosen Practitioner
• How our bodies hold on to past experiences
• How Racism and cultural conditioning are connected
• How Marjorie approaches movement and the aging process

About the Guest:

Marjorie Huebner was delighted to discover the Rosen Method as it brought together movement, touch and awareness! Her return to her own embodiment began with modern dance, movement improvisation, yoga, and Authentic Movement. Since 1984, she has had a private bodywork practice, working in a variety of modalities, including massage, Trager, and Craniosacral Therapy, and, since 2000, Rosen Method Bodywork and Movement, and Authentic Movement. Some other influences have been Somatic Experiencing, Body-Mind Centering, Hakomi, Vipassana Meditation, Non-Violent Communication, the study of human anatomy, and body culture. Since 2015, she has been working with a group of white colleagues, and two mentors of color, on building capacity to take anti-racist action in the world in an embodied way.

Find Marjorie Huebner here:

https://www.marjoriehuebner.com/

https://roseninstitute.net/

Links of Interest:

https://www.rosenmethodopencenter.org/

See No Stranger, A Memoir and Manifesto of Revolutionary Love by Valerie Kaur

Relaxation Awareness Resilience, Rosen Method Bodywork Science and Practice by Ivy Green

My Body is Not an Apology, The Power of Radical Self-Love by Sonja Renee Taylor

Power and Privilege Wheel: https://www.recipesforwellbeing.org/the-wheel-of-power-and-privilege/

About the Host:

Maureen Spielman is the Founder of Mystical Sisterhood, a podcast dedicated to bringing more joy, healing and expansion to the world. She is a seasoned life coach who supports individuals through one-on-one coaching, groups and workshops.

Connect with Maureen:

● Check out her Instagram: @maureeenspielman

● Learn more about her work at www.maureenspielman.com

● Want to join our Mystical Sisterhood Membership community? Find out more here: https://www.maureenspielman.com/mysticalsisterhood

● Email Maureen at hello@maureenspielman.com to inquire about coaching, podcasting & speaking engagements

● Want to view Mystical Sisterhood episodes? Visit the Mystical Sisterhood YouTube Channel here: Magical Sisterhood Youtube

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Hello and welcome back to mystical sisterhood. This is

your host Maureen Spielman. Today Marjorie Huebner joins me

to talk about an exquisite form of healing work called the Rosen

method. When a dear friend's daughter suggested Marjorie and

I talk I was all in discovering healing modalities that are not

yet on my radar is so full of possibilities. Join us today to

lean into Marjorie's wisdom and knowledge on all things the

Rosen method, and so much more. See you in the episode.

Hey there, welcome to mystical sisterhood.

This is your host, Maureen Spielman. I started the show to

highlight the intuitives, healers and other courageous

women that I've met along my journey and continue to meet.

Through amazing interviews, I seek to ask insightful questions

to uncover ways in which you the listener can apply the wisdom

and knowledge to your own life. I believe that we're all in this

together. So sharing healing and joy, and bringing community

together is both my passion and purpose. If you'd like to learn

more about the mystical sisterhood community I'm

building, please visit www mystical sisterhood.com See you

in the episode.

Welcome back to mystical sisterhood. And welcome

to Marjorie, I'm, I'm beyond thrilled that you're here with

me. We became connected through my dear friend Nani and her

daughter, Christine. And

I just love how the universe brings people together. I'm

fascinated by your work. And so we'll dive in today, I'll just

say to the audience that you're a practitioner of the Rosen

method. So we're going to learn all about that something that

aside from our conversation a week or two ago, it wasn't part

of my world. So right there, that could be the whole podcast.

But just

you have a lot of wisdom to share and a lot of wisdom about

becoming centered, becoming heart centric, learning about

how our body speaks to us, and so much more. So welcome,

Marjorie, so glad to have you, thank you marine really

appreciate having this opportunity. Because it's

unusual.

For people who don't know a lot about the Rosen

method, so I'm happy to share about it. And just to clarify,

it has two parts. It has a movement part and a touch body

where, okay, beautiful. Well, I want to dive into all of that

your background, with the body is fascinating. I don't know

where you want to start with your story, and how you came to

this work. But I always just say to my guest, wherever you want

to start that makes sense to you to how you were led to being a

body work practitioner and expert.

Well, I don't know about expert, but I, I do.

I want to start a long time ago, 50 years ago, in high

school,

I was drawn to a presentation of dancers. And I thought, oh, I

want to it was through an urban arts program where you got to

study with the artist in the community. And he went, took a

bus away from school and then back to school. And these

dancers really thought I want to be in my body, I want to learn

more about movement. So I did that for when I started when I

was 17, which is an old age to start dancing really. But I

realized I think that I wasn't a performer. I studied dance for

about 10 years actually, and did some performing but realized I

was more interested in the connection between people and

improvisation in the sensing of each other in space. So I

started to study body work. And I started with massage and

energy work, just exploring all kinds of touch work. And then

I realized that people's tension wasn't getting better, that I

was trying to fix it from the outside. And so I thought, well,

there must be a better way. So just following the thread of my

own practice touching people the privilege, really, of touching a

lot of people in this intimate way.

brought me to be curious about well, how could this tension

that people are holding change? Is there some other way to do

it? So I started to explore different kinds of hakomi.

And I found Rosen body work because it had a movement

component which of course I've been a dancer. And

this hands on component. Yeah. And so Marianne

Rosen was a physical therapist and she started touching people

in a certain way that brought out people's the worries that

brought up people's emotions that

seemed to have a way to get inside underneath the

holding. And what was that holding doing for people? Right?

That was her, her curiosity. And that fit perfectly in what my

question was, well, what what is this holding all about the

muscle tension, what's going on there. So, I want to just talk a

little bit about Marianne Rosen, because I think her background

really helps know why she was so interested in that in a way. And

that she was born in 1914, in Germany. And she was a pretty,

you know, a young woman during when, when the Nazis were in

control of Germany. And she was not a practicing Jew, her

family, family wasn't.

But she had Jewish ancestors. And so she was considered

Jewish. And she's told the story and one of the intensives

pensive trainings and I worked with her, she said, You know, I

grew up and it would say, June verboten on the window, the

store window, and that meant Jews forbidden.

And she said, you know, no one should be forbidden without

being known. And so there was something about her knowing how

important it was to be seen and known for who you truly are. And

that's the base of her work. So the touch is trusting that each

person has their own knowing and wisdom. And

if we can, if they can live from that, if they can feel that and

know that not just from their heads, but from a deep knowing

and their bodies, that they can actually relax? Well, um, I just

want to remark on both your journey to the Rosen method, and

then something that came up for her is just that following you

had that it felt like a really intuitive question around. Why

are people not letting go of their attention? What's going on

here? There must be something more, leading you down that path

of just maybe trying these different avenues. I think it's

remarkable how each of us has what will speak to us and it's

got to be related to what our purpose is and what our unique

gifts are. Right. But then that also was true for it was Marian

Rosen, and that she knew she from a young age that she wanted

to know more about people to tap into their being seen, based on

her experience. It's so beautiful. Well, I think too,

you know, she wasn't able to go to university because she was

Jewish. And so her mother who was a kind of Bohemian person

hooked her up with

the Gustaf and

good stuff. The good stuff, hire started the hires goofed off

hire was a union analyst and his wife was a body breath, touch

person. And they combined the work the early mind body work in

the 30s in Germany. And so she was exposed to this idea that

when people had a sense of their body that they did better

emotionally. It was early in her experience, and then she left

Germany, she had to leave Germany as a Jew and escaped to

came to the United States. And I think that stayed with her,

right. Somehow that early experience. So yeah. And

I think for me, too, I had my own tension. Right. So healer,

heal thyself, my journey. My own curiosity. Yes. Yeah. And I

realized that people

weren't other massage therapists weren't always getting the same

response I was getting, I was touching people, and they would

have emotions, or they would tell me stories about their

life, or they would reveal things. So I needed to find a

way to how to how to how to do deal with that when I was, you

know, yes, them. And yeah, so Rosen method really has that.

Okay, well, I was gonna ask you just a question for the

listeners sort of background. So I think when we met, you know,

just recently, I was saying, Are we moving into the age of the

body, like where we're really there's been research out there

for, for quite some time, some very foundational books written

about like the Body Keeps the Score.

I'm sure you have a lot that you've read and really have

become important to you. But can you kind of talk about just how,

how the body holds on to past experiences, emotions and that

kind of background work before you tell us about how touch

releases it.

I'd like to start with babies.

Right? I'm not a mother but I have

nephews and I

studied a lot about some about developmental movement and how

the first really thing a baby needs to do is to yield right to

be held. And to feel that ability to say, Oh, I'm safe,

there's a, there's a way to protect when they're out of the,

you know, the womb, there's a container for that. And we don't

think babies come with an agenda to like, manipulate us if

they're hungry. They let us know if they need their diaper

changed, and they're uncomfortable, they let us know.

So it's a natural, this natural that they pay attention to their

body, and the only they're helpless, pretty much so the

only thing they can do is, is verbally protest. So as a

parent, I'm guessing you figured out Oh, that, that that's a

hungry cry. Yeah. And so when the mom feeds the baby,

the baby can relax, and the mom can relax, that that's the need

was met from the outside in. And so the baby learns, oh, that

means when I'm hungry, later on, I know that sensation that that

satisfies that sensation. Yeah, there's a direct relationship,

right? But if we every time a baby cries, and we just feed

them, they don't get to know Oh, I just want to be held or I need

to be warmer, or they don't get to differentiate the sensation

and the experience and integrate it. Okay, so maybe, you know,

when

we're need to be connected, we eat. Because that's, that's what

was done for us rather than satisfy really meet the need

there. Okay, so we don't we get confused. We don't really know,

that sensation means I just need to cry because I got scared or,

you know.

So if that makes sense. Yeah, it makes sense. And it's,

yeah, it starts so pure, it starts so there's just a view

needs to be held to be fed to be to feel connected, though. And

it feels like from your description that there can be

almost like, confusion, or mixed messages, I guess, is the word

even it's on such a, you know, nonverbal level of things. But

I've you know, read that and know that that that imprinting

occurs in the first years of life. So it's very important to,

to meet the needs. So in a way, that same meeting is what

happens in Rosen. So here you are, here I am. And where we

come together through the contact through the touch is a

third place. It's a unique place of the meeting, what happens

there? And that's where I bring my curiosity and invite you to

come and what's it like to meet me?

And there's no right and wrong about that. Maybe you don't want

to meet me, maybe it's scary. And maybe I need to find another

place to touch you or to give you a break from touch. I don't

know. But we get to explore that meeting place.

And the way that is different from massage, is that I don't

try to change anything.

I try.

We're trying. So I meet I just meet you and see what happens.

It feels like a an energetic meeting as well. The to it. Is

that right? Like in terms of people's energy fields and

coming to that place. That's always there. But we don't talk

about energy, okay?

Because we want to actually feel the sensations. And the

sensations are, like we said, when I'm hungry, I know I will

have a sensation, I'm hungry. So I eat or I'm tired. So I rest.

So we want to start to explore what is that sensation.

And we use words to because we want to speak from the body. We

want to make it conscious, Oh, I feel a little tingling there.

Where I feel some warp there. We start with sensation. So we can

bypass thinking about things. stuff, you know, up here. Okay,

so we want the bottom up processing we want to start with

what do I know from sensing this connection?

So sometimes it can heal, you know, developmental relational

wounds because we explore what what it's like to be touched and

so So, the people, the people will say, Oh, I feel comforted.

Or, you know, or I feel supported. I'm not trying to

support them. I'm not trying to comfort them. So what comes from

their experience of the contact is what they needed. Yeah, yeah.

And therein lies the healing part. do sometimes.

People come in saying, Marjorie, I have a sensation and a

particular part of my body.

And or sometimes it's where you lay your hands that then they

become in touch with the sensation and the information

going on underneath it, right? I had a client has had a had right

shoulder problems. And so yeah, I'm wondering if if it's, I

asked permission, or where do you want to be touched for? So I

really, it's about really respecting that. Starting with

what's safe enough for people? Yeah. So that you may not go

right to where the pain is, we might start, maybe we'll start

somewhere else just to get used to each other, just start to

have a connection. And what feels okay to that person. But

yeah, sometimes people can really feel what's underneath,

right? When there's the support or contact, and I'm listening.

We call it meeting, and listening touch.

I'm not trying to change anything, because you I want

them I want you to feel what's there rather than bypass around

or, which is what we learned to do, or hold whatever we needed

to hold in there. Yeah.

I feel like trust is a big word that's coming to mind for me,

because

we don't always have the opportunities to really learn

how to trust when we're young. And so it's the rebuilding, and

you're sharing about how respectful it is. And honoring

to go to to be able to work with a person's body. I think you

mentioned that into to have that sort of privilege.

But it's so respectful, and the words body autonomy are coming

to mind. And just having someone ask you, can I touch you?

Because we do. I think as I've learned more about the body, I

realized that,

you know, we often are touched or it's it's evolving into a new

space where it is our body? And I don't know that I think

there's a lot around just that.

Yeah, it is you have a right to say no.

Right? Or yes to whatever contact you have. And

it's so important, right to respect

people's capacity for for that kind of contact. It might be

really scary. There might have been abuse, and how do you

really trust? Yeah, I don't want to be touched there, or that's

enough. And, and to not take it personally. Right, as the

practitioner, that they're having an experience that, you

know, I'm not trying to hurt them, or I'm not hurting you.

But it doesn't feel safe. It doesn't feel okay. We want to we

want to honor what the experience is, and then keep

exploring that further. Well, what, what wasn't? What isn't

safe about that? Can be Yeah, yeah, I feel like there's a lot

of exploration there, it reminds me of a massage I had recently.

And you're helping me see that, at that particular time, I had

had a flare up in a hip, an injury I never had before it was

it was just in the muscle on my hip. And in the massage, I think

the therapist was manipulating me the way that she almost like

prescriptively thought would work for me, right. And it got

to a point where it did tap into emotion, which a lot of people

we don't even have that we've been so many disconnected from

our mind, body, spirit, that we don't always connect that. I

think in the past, I would have just been on the table like, Oh,

I just had a wave of sadness, not knowing that the touch

brought it apart. So there's a couple parts of that where I

didn't, I didn't really have that kind of relationship.

You're also talking about with your clients building

relationships. And

yeah, this therapists kind of just going in, but also, I don't

know, I feel like even in that experience, if I went back to

it,

if that were to tap into a motion,

allowing that allowing some space around it, allowing some

time around it, in order to process it. And do Do you

sometimes see to clients be like, whoa, whoa, when you tap

into something that's a bit more informational, intense, strong

feeling for them.

Yeah, and yet, that's why they come. Yeah. Because that they

want to provide a container for that. Yeah. Every emotion has a

sensation and people don't always know that. They don't

always know what is that sort of butterfly feeling? Is it

excitement? Is it fear is a combination that we're not used

to exploring? Yeah, sensation of emotion. So being able to stay

with it with someone saying, yeah, yes, you're scared or Oh,

you're sad. That's right. Can you just let that sense

You shouldn't be there with my yummy. And so that's going to be

particular to each person that comes to you to each to each

individual out there on earth. So then it's a, it sounds like

it's a really a process of you being a guide, and the

intelligence coming up from them, but then it can kind of

give, I feel like your clients a roadmap to kind of deciphering

what does that mean, that's really valuable information? And

maybe, maybe you don't have a story with it, maybe it's just

feeling it's only feeling the emotion. Okay. Maybe there is

there is a memory.

And so there's no, maybe an image, there's no right or wrong

about what comes or doesn't come. Some people want a story,

they want to know why. And that's more of a head thing. So

can we just let the body do what it does is it can process maybe

it's like having tingling, or shaking or vibrating or, you

know, just that the nervous system is processing it. We

don't have to always know in our heads. Yeah. And sometimes it's

scary for people these sensations, it's like, what is

that all of a sudden, my legs are, you know, vibrating? Or,

you know, it's so it's normalizing? Oh, this is how the

body does. This is what our bodies do for us. They process

things. And it's things that have been unconscious, right?

Absolutely. Yeah, that's certainly we don't, we don't

learn about our body's intelligence about what emotions

really are, we just tend to have a name for them, kind of period.

There might be a follow up question sometimes to what they

mean to somebody. But yeah, that land of venturing into the body.

And, you know, you can someone can be when you were talking

about your early background, as a dancer, a dancer, that when

you when individuals use their body in a physical way, you have

a relationship with your body, but it doesn't always mean that

you know how to decode how it speaks to you. Well, and also

there's, you know, dancers have to look a certain way have to be

thin, they have to, you know, there's there's all this

pressure, right, and performing is different than feeling

inside. Yeah. And, and following something inside it is and, and

yet a performer, you don't want to just have them like, look

good on the outside, you want to have something of them coming

through the movement as well. Yeah. Right. So it's not that

there's a separation with art, you know, but that wasn't I was

more interested in what was going on inside. And I'm an

introvert. So it makes sense. You know, I wasn't so much

interested in you know, performing. Yeah. And I think

that

that was something that was missing was that intimate

connection. And I knew how important it is to have someone

just be with me, non judgmentally, saying, I'm here

with you. Can you trust and feel what your need was? Or is right

now?

Yeah. And let it let it be there. And, yeah, take some

time. Yeah, it's spectacular.

It's kind of simple. It's like that baby, can I just respond to

the need there? As a caregiver and sometimes I can't, right?

Moms can't be perfect. Parents can't be perfect or whatever.

And it's okay. Babies are very resilient. You know, they don't

have to be respond to every minute, every second. Yeah.

Enough, it's like enough.

It feels like the dance though. When you are in communication

with the person on the table or in your room. Your team. It's

not teaching but it reminds me of the dance that we are meant

to be doing with each other as humans and relating to each

other in this in this giving and receiving sort of way. And what

a beautiful process to for someone to learn how to receive

and express as well.

However, it's meant to come through if it's through the

emotion through words. So you said that wrote movement I know

when you say

you said the Rosen method has movement, and what was the

second part of it, and the bodywork touch and the bodywork.

So what is the movement look like? Within so this was

a physical therapist. So she brilliantly took all the range

of motion exercises for the joints for physical therapy

and put it into a class and so it when there's more

proprioception in the joints, we have to know where our joints

are, because otherwise we want to don't want to hurt something.

So there's a lot more sensation in the joint. So when our joints

feel good, we kind of feel good. So there's a

Creating of synovial fluid with movement. So they're very

particular she's very particular about the movements. It's more

directed. And it's done to music. So it's kind of fun and

helps, you know, music kind of lights up, the whole brain kind

of makes it fun. And it's in a circle. It's community oriented.

It's not about

even though I'm leading, it's, it's about community. And so

it's just fun and easygoing, and it helps people open their

bodies. And because there are places where we've held, right,

and so it's another way to get feeling like I might say, what's

it like, when you open your I'm putting my arm to the side here?

The shoulder blade does drop down the back. Yeah, you know

that we might not feel that that's what happens when we move

our arm. So to get more of a sense of sensation, and movement

and connection, in that way to with people having fun.

Yeah, so that's the other part of the work. And it came, she

started doing the bodywork. Actually, her clients said, how

can we age gracefully and not have to come to physical

therapy? And she said, Well, let's do this. Yeah, yeah.

That's what comes to mind when you talk about the movement part

of it, because

we, in America, I feel like, you know, sports are prevalent when

we're young, and it's always pushed the body and what are you

going to do for your workout, your workout, you're going to

lift weights, all the good, good things. And, and but backing up

and learning. I mean, both parts of the Rosen method teach us

about our body, about what it feels like. And I when I think

about even my aging parents, my mom had a poly miasma.

rheumatica I think it was called the PMR. And then my, which was

joint pain, and then my dad had Parkinson's and just a how, even

for probably across a lot of diagnoses, things that are

showing up at the body, the these really just softer,

gentler learning what you need movements are part of being in

our body more. Well, his life. I mean, if we're not moving, we're

dead. Basically, you know, when we die, we stopped moving. And

if you've ever been with someone who's died, they're not they're

not there. So just even the movement of the breath, I mean,

just movement of the cell. Cell membranes are making sure I

mean, we are about movement, life is about moving. And so

same thing with that body tension. It's not moving. Right?

We had to not move something. Because it was too painful.

There wasn't support to feel it. Yeah. So all those things,

right? How have, you know,

put our bodies into a shape even? Yeah, definitely. Yes. And

I want to ask you a question just about how do you see sort

of exercise? And what do you think because you're a body

practitioner, you have been for a long time? What do you think

is really good, even in the aging process for people to be

doing? Well, walking is fabulous, if you can, but you

know, people like to dance, and, you know, whatever. It gives you

pleasure and joy and doesn't and doesn't hurt you? Yes, I would

say is great. It's great. And so weightlifting, and all that

stuff is fun. I don't see any problem with people do unless

they're like, pushing past and forcing and thinking their body

should do a certain thing in a certain way every day all the

time. Can we really be present to oh, you know, today, I need

to rest? Yeah. Today, I need to take a leisurely walk. Oh, yeah.

Now I need to really walk because it feels good, you know,

so to respond again, to what's inside, okay to respond to

yourself, need to be in touch with that. And Marian rose and

said, you know, the rosin movement really said once a

week, what we want to do is open the body. So when you do

anything else, you're not lifting weights from here,

right? You're lifting weights from a more open place. Right?

Or whatever, that yeah, you should do a variety of things.

Well, so as your pleasure, pleasure, it's what it sounds

like in the dance. Absolutely. I'm really liking that one. Is

Mary and Rosen still alive, Marjorie. She died in 2012 at

9392.

What a body of work. What else? You know, with your journey with

her studies? Is there anything I know I want to talk to you a

little bit about your embodiment work, too. But what have I

missed with the Rosen method? Are we covered like a nice

general outline? It's a really just juicy area of work. I just

think the power of touch I mean, we're mammals right.

And you know, they've done studies that high licking rat

mothers have calmer babies, right? Yeah. There's more when

there's contact and there's there's a there is that kind of

attentive. I'm really there with you. Yes, kind of contact

cuz that's what's important for us. That's what's really

important. And

you know, we have all kinds of

cultural conditioning that comes in, I mean that we learn, like,

Boys Don't Cry, or they can men can be angry, but women can cry,

but they can't be angry, you know, you know, we have all

these rules and schools and you know, we're talking to we have

to sit all the time.

We can't wiggle? Absolutely. You know, there's always still a lot

of cultural rules. Religion has them, you know, behavior, and

not that some all of them are bad. I'm not saying that. Yes.

But can we be,

you know, so much as you know, wait for women is so much right.

That is

not absolutely. Right. I know. Yeah. I was gonna mention them.

Racism to, you know, one of the things I wanted to do and I

forgot at the beginning was to introduce myself, so people who

are just listening to know I am a white cisgendered older woman,

who's a touch practitioner, that's, that's, that's a lot of

who I am. And that if you don't see me,

you know, that, that you have a sense of who I am and how I'm

seen.

People don't know maybe people have all kinds of assumptions by

my what how I look, or even by those those things, I said, so

all that comes up in the touch work, what has gotten in our way

of being in our hearts of seeing people?

I love Valerie car, do you know her work? I don't think I do.

It's called she's a wrote a book called Revolutionary love. And

I. And she says, I wrote it down because I wanted to say it

right? When you see someone can you say can you feel you are a

part of me? I do not know yet? No.

You are a part of me. I do not yet know. And in a way, that's

how I approach touching people. I don't. Can we get to know each

other? Yes. Yeah. in a deep way. This is wisdom that comes from

knowledge of yourself, you know, is there space for that? And she

said, you know, can we wonder about people? Yeah, yeah, can I

leave with them? Because that's she said, that's the price the

gift in a way in the price of love. It's this work allows me

to care for people. Yeah, like that. It's so comes across, I

heard another friend of mine say last week, it reminds me a

Valerie's quote is

I cannot exist without you. You cannot exist without me. It's

very reciprocal. Yeah. I appreciate everything you're

introducing into our conversation about cultural

conditioning, because so much is invisible to us. But when we

become open to getting curious, I think there was a time that I

even thought, oh, marketing doesn't affect me that much.

Well, yes, it does. Yes, it does. You've just been almost

like so

sheepishly conditioned that you think it doesn't, but that's not

the ways that you've adopted or the it's a huge took on other

people's thoughts and ideas of who you were supposed to be. And

then, you know, you get to this point in life, and you're just

you're, you know, we all have inclinations, even when we're

younger, to like, this is not for me, this is not for me, but

it's really dense and thick to move through. So just the

conversation of, let's just say what it is, and how we're

affected by it, and then work from that point, no judgment,

no, just awareness. Yeah. And I feel that you know, what, what?

I don't know about you. I don't you know, I don't wear makeup.

And I put lipstick on once, you know, when I was in junior high,

and it was like, Oh, my God, I don't I can't stand the feeling

that Yeah, like that. So I never did that.

Yes, like that. Yeah. So we don't, you know, get to trust

that we supposed to look a certain way to fit in. We want

to belong, we do. So Valerie Carr also says Can we choose to

fight for and with others? Yeah. So she says that it's an

orientation towards life that is personal, but also political or

collective? Yeah. Because we live we we don't just, we're not

just individuals and Marian rose and said that too. She said, One

time she was intensive, and there the whole room, people

were crying and she said, emotions are great, but that's

not the end. What are we going to do with what the awareness

that we have? What how are we going to manifest that in our

relationships in the world? We are? How do we stay in our

bodies what feels right or not? Right? You know, that is huge

reason for embodiment. Yes, yes.

I want to ask you just circle back to get your

thoughts

As on

women and our bodies and all that we've been taking on other

people's ideas, the shame that we take on the not enoughness

the not. And I recently read a book, I'm forgetting the name,

but it's by these identical twin sister sisters, Lexi and Lindsey

chi. Do you know that work? Yeah. Yeah, I really love it. I

love just the premise of it. But that often we're so often we're

manipulating what our bodies what we think they should look

like, for somebody else. It's not really another great book

called My body is not an apology.

That's a really a great book, because she talks about how to

love your body. So that's what embodiment can do. So I have

clients who don't like their bodies, but when they're

actually feeling inside their bodies. Yeah.

They don't have that experience so much. It's like, sometimes

you do, like, don't touch that big butt or something, you know,

but yeah, but also they can start to feel how good it is

just to be in in their own body, then, oh, it's not about how it

looks. Sometimes I think we should get rid of mirrors, you

know? Absolutely. I don't disagree with that. Yeah. Right.

Because there's a lot of pressure, a lot of pressure on

women,

culturally, to look a certain way.

And to, you know, I always thought, you know, ties for men,

keeping them from feeling their body and high heels for women

keeping dealing with ground. So yeah, what is that? What is

that, that we do to not be in connection with our bodies? And

especially in the white western European culture? Yeah. Yeah,

thanks. Thanks for those.

Yeah, just examples in what I tune into more and more every

day, is whatever it is, in our world is our choice. And so if

we can be aware

that we do have

that choice of how we speak to ourselves, how we choose choose,

or not choose to take time to be with ourselves to any of these

things. And that someone else doesn't get to say, I mean, we

are living in a very prescriptive society, you know,

I starting this business, and it's like, oh, you should do

these 1020 30 things to make it a success. But if I distill it

down to what's right, for me, it's going to look completely

different. And I, you know, you take bits and pieces, but I like

this, this idea of the answers are within you. And yeah, and

there's a lot like we talked about pressure from outside,

right, yeah. It's just the way our institutions are what I

learned in school and what I didn't learn in school who has

control over that information.

And, you know, just like the Black Lives Matter movement,

saying, you know,

I matter my body might who I am matters, is really been hard for

people, white people, because, you know, yeah, I matter to

Yeah, people say that. However, I didn't go through 400 years of

slavery. I didn't matter at all. Yeah, like, it didn't have that

genetic experience. And so there's something really

important to know that yeah, I have I have choice. And I don't

have choice. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I thought of that

when I said that, you know, so there's institutional forces.

And so it's important to be aware of our history to be aware

of where I stand, like, financially class, even, you

know, how much wealth I have or privilege I have, yeah, there

are these, you know, power and privilege circles that you can

put, you know, what, what, where am I? You know, in terms of,

yes, where I fall in being

educated, you know, where's my power, but where and where don't

want to have power? We all have that. Yeah, it's good to look

at. It is good. Yeah. What does it feel like in your body? To

that my neighbor might not have health insurance? Yes, yes. I

haven't. And they don't, is that okay? No, it's like, there's

something that my mentors that I've been working with for a

while talk about essential goodness, that we have the

ability to feel, oh, yeah, I care about people.

And to keep remembering that and to come to that, that's, that's

an embodied knowing what's important to me.

Where do I actually literally want to put my body

take a stand in a way or where I put my energy? So the healing

that I do inside helps me.

So that inside outside, just like we talked about at the

beginning, what's outside goes inside. So when I have a sense

of myself, what can I bring forth in the world who I am. You

don't have to be famous. I don't have to, you know, I don't know

whatever.

We're going to write a book, but I am really committed to that.

Being who I am like that in the world bringing that into the

world. It's a very spiritual thing. Really? Yeah, it is.

It's such a gift. I mean, when when I asked you, if the Rosen

method is far reaching, it's you said that there are not so many

practitioners in the world, would you say?

There's, there's there's an institute Rosen Institute in

that, yeah, it's not a huge number. And I think part of it

is, it's asking us to do our own work. So when we are with

people, yeah.

We can really be with whatever arises, and I have to do my own

work. And I don't think

it comes

until you're older.

In a certain way. Yeah. In your 20s, you're more out you're

exploring, you know, it's like the inner the inner mean, I

think it could come. I mean, I think if we had had a different

society, maybe it would come more, but I think takes a while.

Yeah, to do your own healing to be able to really be with people

in this way.

Yeah, yeah. And even, you know, how, research shows that

developmentally, you know, you reach developmentally 2627. For

men, it can be even a little bit later. Because I often think

about that, like, oh,

will consciousness rise? And younger populations early? I

think it is, actually. Yeah. And I think part of it is, is

because of this, the larger container, because people are

saying,

you know, like this LGBTQ, you know, gay marriage, you know,

because everybody, people and the people are out and people,

almost everybody knows someone who's gay, they work with them,

or

their parents, you know, at the same school. So there's,

there's, if we can, and I think integration is also helped that

to a certain degree that we have just more experience with people

who are different than us, or who we haven't known. I live in

a neighborhood with lots of we have a lot of Somali immigrants

here. And I live in a neighborhood with lots of Somali

people. Yeah, so I get, and that was out the other night at

Minnehaha. Fall. It was a beautiful spring evening. And

there were people in saris and people playing. I mean, they're

just people of all races and kids running around playing with

each other. It was so sweet. That is, it is multicultural.

Yes. Space. Yeah. And people are great. I lived as Yeah. And I

watched my kids and how they're experiencing life, and we live

right outside of a big city as well. is,

you know, they, they're exposed to just a lot of difference of

expression thought and so almost like when a couple of them have

gone to university, it's been like a little more insular. And

not as,

you know, maybe in thought and academics. But yeah, it's a

different time. And, and they're not afraid to say, Hey, you, you

said that the wrong way, are you and it's wonderful, because it

is we are moving into that time of just more acceptance. I'm

just in conversations like these just

sort of bring ideas to more people. It's exponential. So I

don't know if you want to finish, Marjorie, with anything

we haven't touched upon yet. So I'll ask you that before we

finish up. I think the only other thing that I didn't say

is, you know, to really that non judgmental piece for ourselves,

that what we did to survive something

we shouldn't ever judge. Yeah. And that actually, we should can

we receive it in that kind, loving way? It's like, oh, I had

to hold I had to hold

in order to get through something. And our bodies offer

us that gift in a way. Yeah. But then they say, you know, like,

that person is just like, I can't do this anymore. There's

some at some point, it says knocks on our door and says,

Hell, yes. Right. Yes. And so that's why people come, I think,

to me is that they've tried many things.

And so this idea of listening to what needs Yeah, is a really

different approach than trying to fix it and do something,

right. And then and then and to say, Okay, I'm going to really

listen now and not judge you and not try to force you to be

different to receive, oh, your pain, or your sadness, like your

hip

and say, oh, yeah, that's what you needed to feel sad. And can

it be safe enough and Okay, enough and have, you know, a

supportive environment to explore maybe even what's

underneath that?

That something about that

really honoring those survival mechanisms, but also knowing

that

there's a way that our bodies can process that. Yeah. Yeah.

And then it takes time. Sometimes Sometimes we have to

titrate we have to do little bits at a time. We can't just do

it fell swoop. It's kind of like breathing someone. Like, yeah. I

don't grieve somewhat all you know what, at one point, I might

have a memory of my grandmother. Yeah. And I'll feel sad again.

Yeah, I know. So true. I entered a church the other day. And it's

like, my dad had most recently died, but just the memories of

my mom, you know, who passed away a while ago. And I like

that you're, that's kind of how we're kind of finishing up

because reminds me.

She'll know which sister it is, if I say this, but I think she

was having back pain. And I had asked a question, like, I wonder

what it's here to tell you. And I don't think that we've been

cultured to ask that question first. And so

but I think it's a great place to start. And like you're

saying, without judgment, almost with reverence. Like, it might

be painful, but how have you protected me? Thank you. And I'm

so curious about what what's here for me?

Yeah, I don't want I don't want to, you know, go to the doctor.

Make sure it's not something structural or Yeah, right.

Exactly. Yes. Another way in and yeah, yeah. Can I experience

something different? What? Yeah. What? What was it? Like, before

I had to do that? I don't know. You know, whatever arises from

your own wisdom and experience. Yeah. I like them to attend the

wound. Yes. And you bring up a good just point of, it's, it's

multi dimensional. It's i That's the way when I went through my

healing journey. I kind of like, I was curious, I tried

acupuncture. I tried Reiki I had never done it, you know, and

it's such a gift to go to a healer like yourself, if that's

possible. Where can the listeners find you? I think you

have a website, a website. And there's I teach sometimes the

Rosen method, open center, just based in New York, but we teach

anywhere, okay. And they're in Minnesota, we're offering an

introductory workshop to both the movement and the bodywork in

September, and we've got some students here. And so we're

offering some other kinds of trainings. Okay, but who want to

study it? Yeah, probably an intensive, November here.

Beautiful. Yeah, it's for personal growth or for

professional growth. It's not you don't have to become a

practitioner, you can just be for your own experience. And,

yeah, gorgeous. Yeah. Building and there are others. There are

other centers around the world. So the Rosen Institute has a

list of them. Okay. There's, there's a couple more in the

United States. Yeah, that's great. We'll put all the

information in the show notes of the episode.

I want to thank you for being here and sharing your wisdom,

your knowledge and your body of work with us, Marjorie, it's

been a real pleasure to sit with you. Yeah, it's been really fun.

I'm surprised I'm we're relaxing.

I love that. Okay, I want to say thanks to the listeners. Thanks

for being here. And we'll see you next time.

Thanks for listening to this episode of mystical sisterhood.

If you love what you heard, please visit Apple podcast and

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called to do so. To learn more about my one on one coaching

programs, or join the mystical sisterhood membership, visit

Maureen spielman.com or mystical sisterhood.com Thanks so much.

I'll see you in the next episode.