Tristan and Kyle answer questions from Sara and Mel. Sara asks about house systems and planets in the first house. Mel wants to know what to expect from her Saturn Return. If you have A question you would like to hear answered on the podcast, send us your question and birth data at astrologyhotlinepod@gmail.com. Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/astrologyhotline.

Mel's Birth Chart: https://imgur.com/a/a4NY3hh

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https://tinyurl.com/Ghost-Of-a-Podcast-Ep-111

https://tinyurl.com/Patrick-Watson-House-Systems

Tristan Paylor-

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Kyle Pierce -

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Hello, welcome to the astrology hotline where we

answer your questions about your birth chart, or about astrology

in general. My name is Kyle Pierce and hosting with me today

is Tristan Paylor. Hello, everyone. We are both practicing

astrologers. I'd say we both use Hellenistic astrology as the

foundation of our practice, but incorporate a lot of modern

interpretations and elements from different traditions. Is

that fair to say, Tristan?

For sure, that's exactly how I would describe it.

So why don't you introduce yourself a bit? Like

how do you get into astrology? And how would you describe your

perspective?

So I got into astrology as a teenager, I was

queer and gender non conforming and pretty hostile environment,

and neither the dominant culture or my peers gave me a language I

could use to describe my experiences. And astrology

helped me to describe myself and my life in a way that was

meaningful and empowering terms of my approach, or my

perspective. To me, astrology is primarily a tool for insight,

meaning making and creative thinking. Like Kyle said, the

techniques of Hellenistic astrology are my foundation. But

my style of interpretation is more modern, emphasizing

creativity, freewill and multiple ways of seeing meaning

in a chart. What about you, Kyle.

So I first got into astrology when I was a little

kid, maybe even I remember reading the horoscope columns

and finding them really interesting. And I got more and

more into it probably throughout my 20s. But it was something

that I would never really admit to anybody that I was into. But

I know it was definitely right around the beginning of my

Saturn Return, that I started to get really into tarot, and

astrology and things like that. And for me, it just put a lot of

pieces together, I had studied psychology and anthropology and

history and a lot of different social sciences, but also a lot

of different religions and kind of spiritual ways of thinking,

and was never able to really make up my mind on any one of

them. But astrology seemed to be a sort of vessel for me to kind

of tie all those things together. But for me, it was

very much a tool for introspection, self reflection,

and ended up being very therapeutic for me. And that's

kind of how I prefer to apply it to other people. And you know,

ever since my Saturn Return was a pretty much an obsession, that

hasn't really stopped. So here we are.

All right, so like, go ahead and introduce our first

listener question.

Yeah, I think that's a good idea.

All right. So our first listener question comes

from Sarah. Sarah has kind of a couple of questions, but they

are related to each other. So the first question is, how does

your appearance differ when you have a planet in the first

house, and a planet near the ascendant? And Sara's second

question is, which one is more accurate? Whole sign or

placidus? Or should we just use whichever one resonates? And how

should we interpret the natal chart when a lot of personal

planets are moved? So in Sara's case, she has a planet near the

ascendant that changes houses depending on which house system

she uses? This is a great question. And just to start off,

I want to make a quick note about using the first house to

talk about someone's appearance. The first house does represent

appearance for sure. But it also represents what we have agency

over correlating planets in the first house with specific

physical characteristics can get kind of problematic. With these

interpretations. I tend to focus on aspects of someone's

appearance, they have agency over, you know, how they choose

to present themselves. You know, you look at texts that correlate

the ascendant or planets in the first house with physical

appearance and they're often very Eurocentric, so I kind of

want to avoid that. I think about what effect the person's

physical presence has on the people around them. Someone with

Jupiter in the first house, for example, might make people feel

happy and ease just by being around, you know, you see them

smile and it's just totally infectious. Send you know you

feel happy and want to smile to? So to answer the actual

question, which is a very good question, a planet in the first

house is going to be significant no matter what. But the closer

that planet is to the ascendant, the more noticeable that planet

will be. If someone has a planet very close to the ascendant,

they embody that planet more directly. I know a few people

with a planet directly on their ascendant and they do almost

seem like you know, an earthly incarnation of that planet, it's

just the effect that their presence has on you. And I

should make a quick note, just in case there are listeners who

are unfamiliar with the different house systems in

astrology, because Sarah has asked about the difference

between whole sign houses versus placidus houses. So just very

quickly, placidus refers to a form of quadrant house system,

and quadrant houses make the ascendant the cusp of the first

house and the midheaven, the cusp of the 10th house. So as an

example, if your Ascendant is at 10 degrees of cancer, and you're

using a quadrant house system, like placidus, the cusp of your

first house will be at 10 degrees of cancer, the houses

will be unequal sizes and signs can become intercepted as a

result. Whereas with whole sign houses, the cusp of the first

house is at zero degrees of your rising sign. So if your

Ascendant is at 10 degrees of cancer, your whole sign first

house will start at zero degrees of cancer. And then the

ascendant will be a floating point within the first house,

and a hole sign chart, all the houses in your chart will be of

equal size, and each house will line up perfectly with a sign.

So getting back to the original question, how you interpret a

planet close to the ascendant, but in a different sign really

depends on how you conceptualize aspects and there are different

ways of conceptualizing aspects. So you know, unfortunately,

there isn't just one cut and dry, right answer. You know, you

kind of have to research and figure out what makes the most

sense for you, but I will offer you know my perspective on it.

To me, aspects have to do first and foremost, with the

relationships between the signs themselves. So I don't

personally count out of sign aspects when I'm reading a

chart.

The five classical aspects like square Trine opposition

conjunction sextile, those only occur between signs that have a

polarity, like diurnal or nocturnal, like cancers,

nocturnal. Aries is diurnal, or a mode, Cardinal fixed immutable

or an element in common. So it's only when they have one of these

three things in common that they actually make an aspect to each

other. So you know as an example, Aries and Leo are both

fire signs. They have an element in common, so they form a Trine

aspect. Cancer and Aries are both cardinal signs, they share

a mood in common, and they make a square aspect. So Pisces and

Aquarius, for example, are two signs that have nothing in

common in terms of polarity element or mode. So they have

nothing to base a relationship on. And just as a disclaimer,

I'm very much referring to signs and not people. So if you know

you're an Aquarius, dating a Pisces, please carry on. If, if

you're using whole sign houses, no matter how close a planet is,

to the ascendant by degree, if it's in a different sign, it's

going to be in either the 12th House or the second house, and

the 12th and second houses in traditional astrology, they

don't make an aspect to the ascendant, which makes them sort

of dark shadowy places, and a planet that's placed in them is

actually kind of invisible. If it's making a very close aspect

to the midheaven, it can become more visible. But in a way, you

know, even if it's close to the ascendant by degree, if a planet

is in the 12th house or the second house, it would have

almost the opposite interpretation of a planet in

the first where it's not actually as visible. At the end

of the day, though, it's it's really a matter of preference.

You know, when it comes to choosing your house system, I

think it is totally valid to choose your house system based

on which one resonates with you more When you're looking at your

own chart, but I would advise you to consider the rationale

behind the system you use before choosing it. One thing to

consider would be the tradition of astrology, you want to learn

or you have a preference for, because different schools or

traditions of astrology, tend to prefer different host systems.

In some cases, you know, certain host systems really work better

within some traditions and not others. placidus is really

popular in the tradition of psychological astrology. So if

that's a tradition that you're drawn to placidus might be the

right house system for you. Whole sign houses is the main

house system and Hellenistic astrology and other host systems

don't work as well, in that tradition, so you know, if you

like Hellenistic whole signs, probably the way to go. And when

it comes to house systems, I mean, this is a topic that we

could spend easily, you know, two hours talking about. So I

want to share a couple of resources that might help you

that I will include, in the show notes, there's a really good

article by Patrick Watson on different house systems. He's a

professional astrologer who really prefers whole sign

houses. That's kind of his bias. So if you want the whole scope

of you know the argument in favor of why you might want to

use them, that's a really good article. And I'll also include a

link to episode number 111. of ghost of a podcast, which is

Jessica Laniado. Joe's podcast, another professional astrologer.

And that episode is all about different house systems. And

Jessica Laniado uses quadrant based system, that's her

preference. So I feel like there's a little balance, you

know, between these two resources, you know, hopefully

you'll, you'll get enough information to start thinking

about what kind of rationale or reasoning might make sense for

the house system you choose. Another thing I would say is

that you have a planet really close to your ascendant by

degree. And if that really resonates with you, you might

consider looking at your side aerial chart, and see if that

chart resonates with you. Because in your side aerial

chart, it's very possible that the ascendant and that planet

are actually in the same sign.

But you know, if a planet being near your ascendant by degree is

really meaningful to you, you don't have to listen to me and

what my preferences are, what matters is that it's meaningful

to you, and you can see it at work in your life. And that

might actually be a really good starting point, and exploring

what how systems work best for you. As for why I personally

prefer whole sign houses, you know, the main reason is they

fit the best in the tradition that I use. Because the

techniques that I use, and the foundation of my practice is

based in Hellenistic astrology. There are certain techniques

that from Hellenistic astrology that just don't work with other

host systems. perfections is one example. If you're using the

technique of annual perfections, that works best in a hole sign

framework. And I do find whole sign houses to be extremely user

friendly. You know, some people will, you'd sort of argue that

if something is simpler, that you know, it's more sort of

naive or whatever. I think there's a bit of a misconception

that something being more complex makes it better. I think

that's a fallacy. I think, you know, a system being simple and

easy to use doesn't make it less valid or advanced. I appreciate

how easy it is to use whole sign houses, it makes tracking

transits really easy. When all the house cusps are at zero

degrees of their respective signs. It's really easy to track

when a planet enters and exits a house and stuff like that.

Yeah, I think for me, the sort of practical application of

Wholesaling Houses really came before I fully understood kind

of the rationale behind it. And I mean, now the the rationale,

the sign based kind of relationship between the houses

really makes a lot of sense. But I remember kind of looking at

transits looking at looking at my chart and really just

resonating more, finding that the whole sign interpretation

just resonated a lot more and when I started applying it to

people I knew really just got better results. With it, I think

that there could be something to whole sign houses, maybe being a

little more objective. Kind of like looking at your life kind

of from the outside, while plus Sidious could be a little more

of mature subjects, excuse me, your subjective relationship to

your chart be how you kind of experience it or identified with

it. Like if you have a planet in your whole sign 10th, but it's

in your plus city as eight, you know that planet, you may not

feel like that planet is super visible, but it may be

objectively a lot more visible to other people than, than you

think. When you start exploring your chart, using whole sign, if

you choose to go that way, you'll see things show up in

different ways in your whole sign chart that maybe you saw or

identified within your previous chart. Like for myself, for

example, I have infelicities, Saturn and Uranus in the sixth

house, and I have a hard time keeping regular routines, you

know, the board need to shake things up. But in whole sign,

you know, they're in my seventh, and it'll sign I have mercury

ruling my third, you know, it's a little hot. So I'm getting

some some aspects from Mars, it's kind of getting some heat

from the sun. So it's a little bit of a restless mercury. And

Mercury tends to deal more in variability than, say, a planet

like Saturn. So it kind of ended up making more sense to once I

understood the significations of the planets a little better.

And, you know, sometimes I think that the cities can resonate a

lot, because sometimes the topics of the houses can get a

little misunderstood, or, you know, have gotten a little more

muddled. Maybe recently, not that I think there is you know,

nothing to the science, equal houses, and a way of looking at

things in that system, you can kind of lose some meanings of,

of houses, that can kind of make the house definitions a little

more fuzzy, and a little easier to skew and sort of smear

together. So I mean, for me, at the end of the day, I just find

that whole signs work better. And kind of agree with you,

Tristan, like you kind of have to go with what resonates with

you what works for you. There's a lot of different ways to do

astrology, Vedic Astrology works. But you also got to think

about the techniques that you're applying, not all techniques are

going to translate well to other systems of astrology. You apply

certain Vedic techniques to modern astrology, you know,

they're not gonna really resonate or translate well,

because they're using just kind of different zodiacs different

systems. Now, when it comes to planets in your first house,

that is where you tend to kind of get the most obvious

distinctions when it comes to house systems. Because you can

have a planet in your whole sign first, but in your city is 12.

And there's a really big difference, like you were

saying, Tristan, between what those two houses tend to

signify, you know, the first house being very visible, and

the second, the 12, being, you know, not so visible. Now, when

it comes to just appearance, it's not always super obvious, I

think the condition of the planet is going to matter. And

after this kind of relative to family, you know, genetics,

obviously, you're still important, but kind of like what

you were saying, Tristan, first house is, has to do a lot with

agency, and will really say a lot about how somebody chooses

to appear, or present themselves in the world. And you can also

look at what houses the planets in your first rule, because they

sort of import topics into the housing question. So if you have

Venus in your first but it's ruling, say the 12 or the

eighth, you know, it's maybe not going to be be as Venus see, you

know, as is it might be if it was ruling your 11th or your,

you know, fifth. So,

it's always important to take those kinds of things into

consideration. And sometimes it can be, you know, very subtle,

like, Megan Fox, for example, has Mars and Capricorn on her

ascendant. So she has Mars and Capricorn on our sendup. She

also has Neptune in Capricorn, just kind of in the first

planets, you know, read on your ascendant they're just going to

be more obvious, more present more powerful, and, you know,

the other planets in the first might come up often, and we'll

kind of mix and mingle. But with Megan Fox, you know, she gets

compared a lot to Angelina Jolie. They're both kind of have

like sex symbol status, you know, very sexy ladies, right?

And Mars, you know, Traditionally wasn't considered

a planet that is, you know, a super sexy planet. But in modern

astrology has gotten a lot more associated with sexuality. And,

you know, I tend to go a bit with that to think you kind of

you want to look at Mars and Venus, it just kind of different

ends of the spectrum. But you think of kind of making foxes

character, and just the way that she managed her her public

persona. One of the things she said was that she, you know,

hoped that in her roles, and that she could help girls to

feel strong and intelligent, and be outspoken and fight for what

is right, which sounds like a very Mars, especially Capricorn

kind of expression. You know, I don't want to say that the Mars

kind of was saying more about her qualities than it did about

her appearance, though. I mean, you could maybe dissect it and

say that, you know, she's kind of has many sharper features

than say, Angelina Jolie that has, you know, Venus on her

ascendant, but often, like the appearance element is pretty

subtle. But you know, having Neptune there, you know, she

also, they were quoted her as being the first sex symbol of

the 21st century. And Neptune has this kind of signification

of representing sort of the ideals of a generation. While

you know, Jolie, Angelina Jolie had similar things said about

her, but she had cancer rising with Venus right on the

ascendant as well as Saturn. In the first and sort of some

interesting parallels there. With Megan Fox being a Capricorn

rising Saturn ruled sign, Angelina, you know, was kind of

singled out very early on in her acting career for being very

beautiful and sexy, very, Venus see. But, you know, she also had

some kind of big public image issues. She can kind of see with

Saturn, which doesn't do super great in cancer in her first

but, you know, one of the things in the 1990s, early 2000s She

was kind of a controversial figure for expressing interest

in like bisexuality and sadomasochism, which is like a

very, Venus, Saturn signification. But I think, you

know, with both, you can kind of see how the planet on the

ascendant ends up taking precedence or sort of winning

out kind of enduring. Throughout all that controversy, Angelina

Jolie, you know, still known for Venus. And Saturn maybe showed

up kind of intermittently, creating issues with her her

reputation.

I think it's very interesting how, you know, and

in both of those cases, the planet that is closer to the

actual ascendant, does seem to show up in a more obvious way.

You know, with both Mars and Venus, you know, representing

sexuality and Megan Fox and Angelina Jolie being these

popular sex symbols, you know, I feel like that is a little more

obvious in how they appear to other people, and how they

present themselves, you know, they both put a lot of care into

their appearance. You know, I think that that shows up a

little more, obviously, whereas, you know, Neptune and Saturn,

which are further away from the ascendant, maybe don't show up

quite as dramatically in how they come off to other people.

Or how they choose to present themselves, you know, Megan Fox

choosing, you know, to present herself as you know, a strong

icon of strength. Angelina Jolie, you know, presenting

herself in this very beautiful way. When you think of the

significations of Venus and Saturn, and you think of

Angelina Jolie, you know, the first planet you would probably

Peck to associate with her would be Venus rather than Saturn.

Yeah. And I think I mean, do you? It gets really

especially tricky. interpreting something like Oh, is Venus

having this person having Venus on the ascendant? Oh, is this

person very beautiful? Well, I mean, that's a very subjective

thing. You know, not everybody has the same standard of beauty.

Angelina Jolie isn't necessarily everybody's cup of tea. So I

would maybe be be cautious about making assumptions like that,

when it comes to interpreting planets on the ascendant.

Yep, I agree wholeheartedly.

So unless you have anything to add, Tristan, we

want to get to our our second question.

Let's do it.

Alright, so our second question comes from Mel. Mel

asks, My Saturn Return is coming up, and I'd like to know what I

can expect. I have Saturn in the sixth house, which does make

sense for my career as I work in the service industry as a flight

attendant. So thank you very much for the call. shouldn't

know? That's an excellent question. Looking at your chart,

I see you have Saturn in Aquarius. And while you know

personally, I find that Saturn's exact return to, you know, its

natal degree is kind of like the punctuation mark in the sort of

story of Saturn's, like hold transit through the natal sign,

I do consider the Saturn Return really kind of starting when

Saturn first ingresses to the sign in your chart. So I would

imagine that a lot of the big themes that are going to be

showing up for you during your Saturn Return are already in

play to some degree. That's not to say that, you know, something

major might not be introduced, right when it hits that exact

point. But you're probably already feeling it. So you know,

we talked a bit about Sidious versus whole sign houses. And I

can see that, you know, Saturn is below your descendant, which

is going to indicate that Saturn is in your Sidious, sixth house,

Tristan and I using whole signs would really interpret Saturn as

being in your seventh house. So while I would think that the

topic of relationships is going to be pretty irrelevant, I also

cannot but notice that Saturn is pretty closely conjunct Venus in

your chart. Venus rules your 10th house, believed in both

cities and whole sign and Venus rules your your third house as

well. And you being a flight attendant, you know, third

house, kind of indicating travel, sort of like regular day

to day travel, which, you know, for everybody is not necessarily

going to be flying on a plane every day. That happens to be

the case for you. But Venus is going to really kind of bring

those two House topics together. So you're doing something like

travel for a living makes a lot of sense. And also just you

know, Venus in Aquarius. Aquarius gets its some of its

significations from the constellation of Aquarius, which

is the water bearer. And, you know, I know that flight

attendants do many other things and serve drinks. But it doesn't

symbolism does, you know, kind of show up. It's kind of sort of

serving drinks in the air. You know, it's an Air sign. I think,

you know, with flight attendants too. I see a lot of Venus,

really in the quality of what flight attendants do. You know,

they're very pleasing in Pleasant and they're kind of

representatives, even kind of visually for the company for the

airline. But there is a, you know, a sternness that the

flight attendants have to have mean you might have to kick

people off a plane, sometimes you have to set boundaries for

people, you have to, you know, tell them no, you can't go to

the bathroom right now we're about to land and can really see

like Venus and Saturn kind of showing up in that way. And you

know, that Saturn first ingress into Aquarius, march 22, of

2020. We might recall, when the lockdown started, I don't know

you know about us specifically, but I think flight attendants

everywhere suddenly had restrictions imposed upon them,

you know, you might have to stay at home, like most people, but

you know, that Saturn returns is gonna say a lot about really

gonna see that show up in the area of relationships, Tristan

and I actually happened to both have Saturn in the seventh house

as well. And I think you know, we can both save it. Our Saturn

returns, though, you know, many other areas of our life kind of

underwent some profound change and restructuring. Really the

arena of relationships really, it's kind of the the main heart

of the action. Do you agree Tristan,

I I can I can certainly talk about my

experience with my own Saturn Return. I think I have you know,

a pretty similar setup with my Saturn you know, my Saturn is

pretty well placed and you know, Mel yours is also pretty well

placed in your chart, which I think Kyle is going to dig into

a little bit you know, which doesn't mean that the Saturn

Return doesn't come with any challenges but you know, a

Saturn in my seventh house and also ruling my seventh house

like it is with yours. The major area of my life that underwent

transition was you know, the arena of my relationships. I

actually I was polyamorous when my Saturn Return started, and by

the time my Saturn Return ended, I was monogamous. So not it's

not just a REIT. structuring of relationships that you already

have necessarily, but the whole the the way you structure your

relationships in general like more broadly, you know, what is

your approach to relationships. Saturn is about, you know,

setting boundaries. I am the kind of person who has kind of a

tough time saying no to people, you know, Saturn significations

or negating and saying no to things and denying and during my

Saturn Return, I started saying no to people, for the first time

in my life, I had moments at work, where people, you know,

would would kind of be pushing my buttons. And I could not

believe the things that came out of my mouth like nothing

impolite, but just, I, I've always been such a passive

person. And it was almost like someone else was talking, like,

I'm actually standing up for myself and saying, No, you've

crossed a line that's not appropriate, and establishing my

boundaries with people. So I mean, overall, like, I think my

Saturn Return was very constructive. It was a lot of

hard work in the area of relationships, but it was very

constructive. And by the end of it, I actually met my current

partner. And it's the healthiest relationship I've ever had. So

it was, it was a long climb to get there. And, you know, really

work on figuring out what it was that I wanted from my

relationships. But yeah, that the end, the day that Saturn

left, you know, my seventh house, the day that my Saturn

Return ended, my partner and I bought a bottle of port and

toasted to Saturn, and thanks for their contributions to my

relationships. And like I had I injured some losses to you know,

I had my heart broken once someone I was just briefly

dating, but, you know, it was all a process of figuring out

what works for me, what doesn't learning not to put up with

garbage from people in relationships anymore? That kind

of stuff?

Yeah, I think when your Saturn Return starts, it really

introduces situations, that kind of force you to take on

qualities of Saturn forces you to take on a more mature,

mature, sort of austere approach to, you know, the topics that

it's pointing to in your life. So I mean, often you'll get

introduced to, you know, a new relationship, if you're not

already in one, or have relationship that, you know,

maybe wasn't gonna stand the test of time, might, might have

to go. And that's not going to be for everybody. But, you know,

really, it's going to force you to reevaluate, and assess the

quality of your relationships, how you are in relationships,

and you know, the kind of people that you're, you're in

relationships with, so you know, not knowing if you went into the

Saturn Return in relationship at all, it's kind of hard to say

specifically how that's gonna play out for you. But we can say

broadly, you know, given the way that Saturn a situation is

situated in your chart, I would say that it's going to tend to

be more constructive and turn up for the better. Saturn in Knight

charts, tends to be a little more challenging, given that the

sun is below the horizon, call your your chart, a night chart,

but Saturn, you know, it's in its own sign. And it's also

being bonafide by a Trine from Jupiter in Libra. And Venus, you

know, it's just kind of like ahead of it by was it like seven

or eight degrees. And it's actually in a condition,

technical condition called a panic enclosure. And you know,

ancient astrologers would say that that's like, the best thing

ever, you know, I think in practice, it's not always that

but what it does tend to indicate is that things will

tend to go your way, or tend to work out for the best, even when

challenging situations are introduced. Saturn can't be too

much of a dip to you. Essentially. You know, Venus and

Jupiter are going to introduce more positive topics that are

going to tend to mitigate or soften some of the maybe the

more difficult experiences that Saturn might deliver. And, you

know, given how closely associated associated Saturn is

with, you know, the ruler of your 10th I'd be very curious to

hear, you know, how the topic of relationships and work might be

sort of interrelated in your life. You could meet a long term

partner in the workplace or possibly if you had to stay home

during the lockdown if you were in a long term relationship,

like I imagine was an experience for a lot of people. When you

get locked away with somebody. You You know, you're forced to

see them constantly, issues that are present in that relationship

are going to come to the surface, and you're going to be

kind of forced to deal with them. Alternatively, if you

maybe weren't in a relationship, you might have had to spend time

alone. So you may have been forced to kind of reflect on the

role of relationships have in your life, and what you maybe

want them to be in the future. Even when you have like a really

good Saturn, and maybe a day chart, you know, it can be a

rough time. A lot of stuff comes to the surface, and you're

really kind of forced to, you know, for me, it was it was kind

of humbling. Just maybe a lot of things that I would now a lot of

ideas that I had, that I would now consider maybe a little

childish or immature, you know, I had to have been kind of shown

to me, and I had to kind of see the results of some maybe more

immature behaviors, so that I could, you know, address them

and figure out how to move forward in a more sustainable

way. And I think that that's often really the thing that

tends to be pretty universal for most people.

So you know, I can echo a lot of what Kyle has

said, Saturn, ruling your seventh house, in your seventh

house makes them kind of your cosmic matchmaker, which is

maybe an odd job for Saturn, but Saturn is getting a lot of help.

Specifically, you know, Carl mentioned, Venus and Jupiter

are, you know, creating this benefic enclosure that's really

helping out Saturn in your chart, and that represents

support that's being given to Saturn. And something I find

interesting is that Venus rules, your third house, and Jupiter is

located in your third house. So Saturn is getting support, you

know, potentially from resources that Jupiter and Venus can bring

to it from the third house. And the third house contains topics

like siblings, your immediate neighborhood, your neighbors,

travel, it also represents divination, there's, there's

quite a collection of topics in the third house. So it's, it's

interesting. I mean, those are all topics from which, you know,

Saturn may get support. And so if there is an emphasis on

relationship matters, during your Saturn Return, those are

areas of life where you might, or people, you know, people in

those areas of life might be able to grant you some support.

And I think it's kind of cool that coming up, I guess you're

already in the swing of your Saturn Return, you reached out

to a couple of astrologers. So which is a very third house

topic, you've got, you know, divination, supporting your

quest to have a successful Saturn Return. And, you know,

it's, it's good, we got a little bit of a discussion on how

systems going, because, you know, Carl was mentioning, if

you're using placidus, you've got Saturn in the sixth, then

you were saying, you feel that makes a lot of sense, because

you're a flight attendant. What's really cool is that

symbolism, even though Saturn changes houses using whole

signs, the symbolism is still there. Saturn rules, your sixth

house and whole signs. So the topic of service and being

helpful to other people, is still very relevant to the

Saturn Return. And to what Saturn does in your life in

general, Saturn's in charge of that whole area of your life.

And the ruler of your ascendant Sun is also located in your

sixth house. So that theme of service gets tied to your

identity and what you choose to do. So that that will be

relevant. I'll sort of circle back to the relationship piece

for a minute, just, you know, what I would advise for a Saturn

transit that really focuses on the topic of relationships is to

be very conscious of your relationship dynamics right now.

You know, don't take your relationships for granted.

Saturn is all about toil, and you know, the work that we'd

rather not do. And relationships should bring you joy. They

should not just be all work. But there are times in relationships

where we have to do things that we'd rather not, you know, there

might be issues that need to be communicated that result in

conversations that are difficult to have. And it can be really

tempting to bottle that stuff up and avoid those conversations.

But if you're going to make the most of a Saturn Return, I think

you gotta you gotta have those difficult That's if there are

difficult chats to be had. Something Saturn will certainly

ask you to do is work on your interpersonal boundaries. If you

aren't in a relationship right now, one thing I'd suggest you

do is sort of preparation for your Saturn Return is actually

write down what it is you want from a relationship. And what

your deal breakers are. Be very clear with yourself and be very

firm about what you are and are not willing to tolerate from

relationships. Saturn is a tough planet, but a really, really

valuable ally when it comes to supporting your right to set

boundaries for yourself.

So something really interesting that I noticed, I use a

technique called annual perfections, which shows you

which houses in your chart are highlighted in a particular

year. And the topics, you know, related to those houses will

tend to be emphasized in that year. So when you turn 29,

you're going to enter a sixth house perfection year. And

that's actually the same year that your Saturn Return will go

exact. And Saturn rules your sixth house. So it's just this

double whammy of Sixth house stuff, you know the theme of

service being the main thing that is highlighted. And because

the planet Ruling Your Ascendant is also in your sixth house,

your sense of identity becomes a major theme. You know, having,

like I mentioned having the ruler of your ascendant and your

sixth sixth ties your identity to the subject of service. So

you know, during this, this part of your Saturn Return, Saturn

might be asking you if too much of yourself is wrapped up in

being helpful. You know, if you tend to bend over backwards for

everyone else, it might be a good idea to consider if you're

doing damage to yourself by making too many sacrifices.

Maybe there are people or situations in your life that you

sacrifice too much to Saturn will tend to narrow focus and

cut away excess and cut out things that are just not serving

you anymore. So I think, you know, taking a look now, are

there areas in my life or people in my life that I'm giving away

too much of myself to, you know, if you do some of that soul

searching now, that part of your Saturn Return should be more

constructive?

Yeah, I would, I would think that that is something you

want to think about what like what Tristan was saying is that,

you know, you've really got to focus on defining your

boundaries and figure out what you will or will not put up

with. Often during the Saturn Return, you're sort of

confronted with situations that ask you, you know, am I willing

to put up with this or not? And what am I willing to put up with

it for? So you know, it really becomes a time to evaluate not

just your relationship but you know, your your personal values.

And kind of given the connection between your first house ruler

and Saturn does seem like that theme is going to really be

emphasized.

One, you know, sort of random note is that one of the

topics signified by this sixth house in traditional astrology

is your animals, which you know, in modern times translates to

pets a lot of the time. And interestingly, Saturn rules

cats. There are a bunch of you know, traditional astrologers,

William Lily is one, Cornelius Agrippa is another when they

list significations for the planets, they list all these

plants and animals that are associated with them. And cats

always are under Saturn's domain. Which might seem strange

but given that Saturn is about delays and obstructions and how

often I can't get up my stairs or through a door because my cat

is in the way I think it fits. So if you have if you have pets,

you know that might be another topic that actually you know

becomes important or if you're thinking about getting a pet and

that that brings me and picking you up from your pets. Set firm

boundaries with your pets don't let them walk over you worry you

know maybe there are things in your life that are getting in

the way of time that you want to spell your pets and you know,

Saturn will often kind of force you to go like what like I was

saying what are what are my values really? And what things

in my life are getting in the way of those and what can I let

go and not letting go can be a difficult process but you know,

there's nonsense get in the way of time with your kitty like,

get that out of there. Um, which kind of brings me to this

doesn't seem at all immediately connected, but I will make it

make sense. This brings me to the subject of remediation. You

know, if, if you find during the course of your Saturn Return,

that there are Saturday themes playing out in these areas of

your life and you're just sick of it, you know, it helps to

kind of tune in to the energy of Saturn, you know, to think about

the kinds of things Saturn likes, the things that Saturn

rules, and, you know, the people that Saturn signifies, and, you

know, befriend them spend time with them. One form of planetary

remediation is charitable donations to causes that the

planet kind of rules. So, you know, you might make a donation

to Cat shelter. Because Saturn rules, cats, you know, a

donation to shelter for, you know, rescued cats is a good

Saturn remediation. Spending time with older people. Saturn

rules old age, and you know, people who've had a great deal

of life experience, and you know, spending time with them,

can help you tune into Saturn's energy in a really meaningful

way. You know, and just little things like, you know, wearing

black and stuff, stuff that Saturn likes, might help you

kind of get in the mood for it and get through it

constructively.

One thing I find, with Saturn remedio to give context

is that Saturn really likes it when you do things that you

don't feel like doing. When you just do them anyway. You know.

So, I know I asked, you know, there were any health issues,

sometimes that can come up with the sex and you said that you

very health conscious person, and you put a lot of focus and

energy into managing your diet and doing lots of things to sort

of maintain your health, which is something that the sixth

house describes as the things that you do to prevent illness.

So it is a good chance that you're already kind of

practicing a form of Saturn remediation, by maintaining sort

of discipline, you know, when it comes to those health routines,

that's something that Saturn really likes to is just when you

do the same thing every day. When you commit, and when you

say you're going to do something, and you do it,

whether you feel like doing it or not. Saturn loves that, if

you're doing that, keep doing it. If not, you know, do it.

It'll it'll help. And Saturn will be your friend. And you

know, the same thing kind of applies in relationships as

well. Think Saturn, in or ruling your seven can create very

enduring, long lasting relationships, as long as you're

willing to put in the work. Saturn can be sort of not fun,

but it rules things that last and endure. And those things

last and endure. Because we say no to the things that undermine

them. And I'd say you can most apply that, you know, you can

apply that to your work life, your routines, but I would apply

that to relationships as well. Is there anything else you

wanted to interesting?

No, I think we've got it covered.

Okay, well, um, I think with that, we will wrap it up

for today. So just want to say thank you for joining us and an

extra special thank you to Sarah and Mel. I know there have been

some questions that we didn't quite get to today, but we will

definitely be getting to them next episode. And if you are

interested in a consultation with me, you can go to my

website, Kyle Pierce astrology.com be a link in the

show notes. You can schedule an appointment there. And if you're

interested in more astrology podcast content, I will be

releasing a new episode of my other podcast called cosmos to

the true crime astrology podcast. And we'll be continuing

my sort of deep dive into John Wayne Gacy his birth chart and

what about uterus and what you have going on?

listeners can find me on Instagram at bad sign

astrology. And I have an Etsy shop as well which is also

called Bad sign astrology. And there will be links to both of

those in the show notes. And I will be opening up my books for

consultations pretty soon. So maybe by next episode, I'll have

that all together. And I also just want to echo Kyle's Thank

you these questions were great. They were a lot of fun to think

about and talk about. Now I wish you all the best with your son

out in return.

Yes, good luck now, you may find yourself cursing

Saturn's name here and there but I really do think it's gonna

turn out for the best for you. And with that, we will wrap it

up, and I hope to see you all next time

if you have a question you would like to hear answered

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