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Effective influencer marketing, alternative revenue streams, and scaling through simplicity | Jay Desai, Founder at Swpely
Episode 326th May 2021 • Demand Gen Chat • Chili Piper
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Hey everyone and welcome back to

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another episode of Demand Gen Chat.

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I'm your host Kaylee Edmondson and

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today we are joined by Jay Desai, who is

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the marketer turned founder of Swpely,

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and currently the host of DTC POD.

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Thanks for having me, Kaylee.

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I'm super excited to, to chat.

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I know we have some fun

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topics planned [laughs].

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Do you wanna just dig right in, start

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with a little bit about yourself and

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what you're doing right now at Swpely?

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Yeah, for sure.

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Uh, so hey everybody, I'm Jay,

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I'm the founder of Swpely.

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Swpely is basically a tool to

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help you save, curate and share

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content from all over the internet.

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Um, so like not just websites and

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images, but like videos, podcasts,

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LinkedIn posts, tweets, all the

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content, uh, it gets interactive with,

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uh, live in the actual application.

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So you don't have to like click around for

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a bunch of links or anything like that.

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Um, I just actually started Swpely

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probably, it's been like seven months

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now, six months, something like that.

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Um, but before I was working on Swpely,

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I was actually working at a B2B company

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for influencer marketing called Trend,

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um, where I was the head of growth over

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there and helped, uh, grow the company

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from six paying brands to 400 in a year.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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No, I think Swpely is so interesting.

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And just for anybody listening, how I

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found out about Swpely, I guess it was

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like a month or so ago now, I had posted,

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um, a poll on LinkedIn just saying, "Hey,

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does everyone here have a swipe file?"

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Uh, like yes or no.

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And it was kind of crazy.

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I feel like everybody came out of the

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woodwork to comment on it and let me know

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that I needed to be using Swpely and like

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Swpely would solve all of my problems.

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Um, we had some really great

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conversations in the comments where

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I was just like, I feel that I have

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some things saved in emails and

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some things saved on my desktop.

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It's like, if, you know, if you close all

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my tabs, my desktop was like a nightmare

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of just things that I had seen in the

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wild that I wanted to reference back to.

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I'm like all the time trying to look at

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how people are running their advertising

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campaigns and steal inspiration

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from it, but it was, um, not a very

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active way to keep track of things.

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So anyways, that's kind of how

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I first heard about Jay and

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[inaudible 00:02:10] company.

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Um, I don't know, probably

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20 people at least commented

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specifically saying I needed Swpely.

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So I'm, I'm a user, I love it so much.

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But I wanna know specifically.

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So you're at Trend and you find there's

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a huge gap in the market, everybody's

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organizing their files like me in

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a little bit of everywhere, right?

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Is that how this kinda came to life?

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Yeah.

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Uh, I think you kinda

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nailed it over there.

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I think, uh, some of the other factors

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that were kind of at play for me

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personally, um, and, and kind of to

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just share, I'm building Swpely for

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myself for my own problem [laughs].

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[laughs].

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Um, so that's a little bit about

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it, but to give a little bit more

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context and back story over there,

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it really kind of started to

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manifest probably back in July, 2020.

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I started working on building my

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personal brand on LinkedIn, um, and

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posting every day, talking about

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different marketing things, 'cause that's

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what I, was the field that I was in.

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Um, but I actually just, uh, graduated

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from college like three years ago.

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So I only have so many

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experiences to share.

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Um, and so after a while, what I found

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myself doing was really kind of putting

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my own take or my ideas on other

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concepts that people were presenting.

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And so with that, I used to collect a

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lot of different ideas and topics, things

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that I could potentially talk about.

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Uh, and then you combine that

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at the same time with, uh,

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at Trend we had a newsletter.

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Um, so I was constantly

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collecting resources for that.

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We had a podcast as well, kind of

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like how you mentioned earlier Kaylee.

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So we had to always come up with content

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ideas over there, and really it kinda

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just all became a mess on my computer.

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And I was engaging with a lot of

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different types of content as well,

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which I'm sure most marketers today do.

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We don't just engage with

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like websites or images.

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People watch videos, people listen

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to podcasts, uh, Twitter and LinkedIn

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has become really big as well.

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And so consuming all of these

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different types of content in

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different forms makes it really

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difficult to keep everything in place.

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So that was kind of like the

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aha moment for me building this.

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And then one of the other things that

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really helped push me over the edge

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over there was back in September,

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2020, I was moving apartments and my

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girlfriend finally convinced me to jump

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onto Pinterest to start saving stuff.

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Um, and I really liked all the

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recommendations that I got, from

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furniture and, um, things that were

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like more to my tastes and preferences.

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And I was like, there's gotta be something

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like this that exists for content.

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And so that was really all of

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those different factors, uh, kind

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of manifested into what Swpely

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is today and what we're building.

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And so as you're making the transition

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from Trend over to Swpely and, you know,

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putting all of your time and effort behind

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launching this, I know that you, um,

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you know, s- stopped working full-time

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at Trend, but kept the podcast going.

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And, you know, so you could shift

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some of your time and effort into

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standing Swpely up as you see it today.

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Talk a little bit about how you

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started to get those wheels turning

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and generating those first 100 signups.

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I think one of the biggest things that

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I learned was probably in March, 2020.

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I've always wanted to start

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my own business for a while.

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Um, and so I tried my hand at a sports

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newsletter thing that was supposed to kind

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of be like a morning brew, but for sports.

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And-

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Mm-hmm [affirmative].

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... so I, I spent not a lot of money,

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but probably ended up spending

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like 1000 bucks and, on an idea

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that never really took off.

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And, um, after that, I was really like,

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I don't wanna spend, it wasn't a ton

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of money, but I, I'm still like, I've

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worked at a lot of smaller companies

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and so that tends to make me a little

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bit more careful about how I spend.

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And so I was like, I don't

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want to spend a dollars without

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validating an idea ever again.

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Um, 'cause I could have used

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that money for a vacation

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or whatever, something else.

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[laughs].

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Um, and so what I did this time

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was actually, I put together the

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website, uh, we just had like a single

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email sequence, uh, and I put it

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out to my, my network on LinkedIn.

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So I've been working on building my

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personal brand, um, starting from July

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and, and put it out probably the first

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week of November, and basically said,

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"Hey, if anyone's interested, go ahead

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and sign up for this thing," and the

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idea behind it was, if there was enough

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people interested, we'd be able to,

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to build the product and I'd feel a

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lot more comfortable spending money.

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And with that, um, you know, one

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thing that I also ran to to kind

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of bump up that, that wait list as

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well was we did give away for two

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Patreon subscriptions, one for Dave

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Gerhardt's, uh, DGMG and another one

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for John Bonini's Some Good Content.

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So my audience is mostly marketing

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people and I figured, uh, why not give

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them something that they'll actually

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use that's, uh, a marketing resource.

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And so that helped to really

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drive the wait list up.

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And, um, we actually built like a little

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bit of a flywheel as well in that sense.

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So, you know, not only did a sign up

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equal an entry, but if you got other

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people to sign up, you got more entries.

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And then we also gave out more entries

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for people responding back to emails.

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And so that really got the sharing

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we all started, and that's really

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what, uh, got us to 100 people.

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But also like building the

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community aspect of Swpely as well,

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because it's very engaging, right?

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And, and it entices you to engage

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not only with you as the founder, but

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also with other like fellow Swpely

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members on LinkedIn and Twitter,

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uh, which is super interesting.

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And you talk about this, uh, first

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startup, I don't know how much you wanna

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talk about it, but I'm really interested

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in, now you spent $1000, what'd you

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spend it on and what'd you learn most?

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Like what, how did you, like, what

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were your signals to be able to say

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like, "Okay, this is not taking off.

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This is failing."

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In order for you to say, "Okay, I need to

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stop this and like move to the next idea."

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Yeah.

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I think the biggest signal was just

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the, not necessarily the cost of

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user acquisition, but the time of it.

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And so we were doing some stuff,

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uh, obviously like we started

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in March, 2020, right when-

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Yeah.

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... COVID was really taking up, obviously

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the best time to start a business.

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[laughing] Um, and so, uh, sports got

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shut down at the same time and I was like-

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[laughs].

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... what am I gonna do over here?

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And so, you know, we started testing some

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stuff out on like Twitch, uh, spending

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a little bit on marketing over there.

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And then just really, I think the thing

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that was, um, the biggest expense that

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we had was actually forming the business.

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Um, and that was-

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Hmm.

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... probably the biggest mistake that I made,

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uh, because it's really like spending

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money on things that don't necessarily

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need to be bought when you don't have

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revenue or, or things like that exist.

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And, you know, we'd spent some

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money too on like, you know, having

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a, a more premium like site plan

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that we were paying for, and more

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premium level for our email tool.

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Like we could have just used a free

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planner or something like that.

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And it's those little things that

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you don't really think, um, are big.

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Um, but they start to, to add

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up and compound over time.

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And so that was really it.

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Um, it just took a lot of effort and, you

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know, I, I thought I knew the problem.

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I, I love sports.

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I've been in the sports space, uh, before.

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I, I've, I've worked at different like

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sports blogs and, and all that fun stuff.

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And I thought I knew the problem,

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and the fact of the matter was

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that I didn't know the problem.

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And so I think that's a big thing as well

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as, you've got to be so fiercely close to

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what the problem is and truly understand

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why that's a problem, or surround yourself

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with people that do understand that.

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Because without that you'll never know

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what the secret is to acquiring people.

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Exactly.

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No, that's great.

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That's a great takeaway too, I think

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it's like the product market fit.

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Um, if there isn't a fit for it and

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you don't understand how to speak

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to these customers and what is

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going to make them move, then you're

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like marketing to nothing, right?

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It's like you're just putting words

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out to take up space, but yeah,

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at the end of the day, it's like

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standing up a new, even us, right?

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Like, so right now we're, um, standing up

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marketing and, to a new persona, um, that

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we've never actively gone after before.

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So we are essentially trying to

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recreate that flywheel or like that

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startup within a startup kind of mode.

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And it's like starting

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from scratch, right?

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We don't, we don't know these people

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and we don't know their pain points as

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well as we know the other pain points

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that we've been marketing to for years.

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Um, and so we're doing that

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same, that same process, right?

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Of just trying to like get in

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their mindset, take a day in their

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shoes, figure out what their real

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pain point is, um, so that we can

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build a product that solves for it.

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Okay.

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So let's talk about this though.

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There's the first 100 sign-ups,

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what about the first thousand?

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Like, I know that y'all just met this

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crazy goal of reaching 1000 signups

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in 30 days and I think you beat it?

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Yeah.

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We ended up beating it by a week.

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[laughs] Um, and that was actually really

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crazy 'cause the reason I set that goal

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was not necessarily thinking that we were

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gonna reach 1000, uh, users to sign up.

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It was more so, uh, hey, if we set a goal

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for 1000 and we land at like 750, that

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would be still really sweet and awesome.

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[laughs].

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Uh, so that was kind of

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the reasoning behind it.

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Um, but it really pushed us, uh, to,

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to go after users and, and really

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be focused on user acquisition.

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Um, and I think one thing that's always

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been big for me is h- how do I get other

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people to, to want to refer and sign up?

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And, and what's the incentive that can be

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put out there, uh, for people to sign up?

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A- and so for that, you know, we

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work with a lot of influencers, um,

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in the business space, like business

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creators, uh, people on LinkedIn with

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big audiences and, and things like that.

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Um, and really just trying

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[laughs] and digging up any

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possible thing that we can do.

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We ran another giveaway, um,

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for, uh, CopyAI, which was a tool

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that other marketers use as well.

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And so we really wanted to focus

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in on a specific niche, 'cause

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I knew there was enough in that

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niche, uh, to fill that goal.

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Um, and just really trying everything

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we possibly can to get there.

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And so you talk about influencers and

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I think like influencer marketing and

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B2B is going to become a more common

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thing, but I do definitely think

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y'all are on the front end of that.

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What, what does that look like?

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Standing up an influencer program?

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Like how many, you know, how do you

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identify who you wanna work with?

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How do you approach the conversation?

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Um, get people interested and like bought

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in to helping you, you know, disseminate

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your, your product to the market.

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Yeah.

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I think it really starts by having a close

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relationship with those people, um, and

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opening up those conversation channels.

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And I kinda see it as a way to

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continue to not just earn media today,

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but media in the future, as well as

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you're building up that relationship.

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And those people don't just become your

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users, but they become your friends or

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people that you can rely on and trust.

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And so part of that, I think it starts

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by, you know, just working on and first of

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all, identifying who those people are, um-

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Mm-hmm [affirmative].

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... figure out what niche you're

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going for and then try and figure

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out players within that space.

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Um, if you don't know who those

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people are right now, um, I know

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there's a lot of tools out there for

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identifying people with large audiences.

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So figure out what that niche looks

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like, and then just really engage

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with their, their content first.

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I think that's the biggest thing

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not a lot of people, um, think of.

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It's not just, "Hey, let me pay you

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like $100 to go post this thing."

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Um, that's definitely not how it works.

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You can try that, but I promise you, you

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probably won't get very good results-

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[laughs].

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... uh, versus the other way.

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Yeah.

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Um, and so I really think that's

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what's the, the big piece over

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there is engaging with those people.

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And then once you've sort of, uh, uh,

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built that rapport with them, that

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they're seeing you and, and trust me

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every, every single creator, um, for

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the most part, like for people that

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have like under 50,000 followers,

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they're definitely seeing you.

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I know because I've tried this myself.

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Um, and if you're engaging with someone's

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content regularly, they're going to see

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you, they're going to know who you are.

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And, and that sounds kinda crazy

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because you're like this person

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has like tons of followers.

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Like they probably don't even see me.

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But I, I promise you, they are seeing

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you for those, uh, accounts that

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are probably like 50,000 or less.

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And so as you're engaging, a- and once

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you get to a certain point where, you

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know, you've provided a lot of value to

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them and you are providing value because

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by engaging, you're boosting their

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content, uh, feel free to, to reach out

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and open those lines of communication.

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Um, you know, if it doesn't work

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out, it doesn't work out, but the

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worst thing they can say is no.

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And, and as you kind of start to open

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up those lines of communication, you

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can mention, "Hey, I have this product.

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Like, I would love to, to

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show you what I'm working on."

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Um, and things like that, and

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just get your perspective on it.

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I think one other thing that, uh, a

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lot of people don't always understand

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is figuring out what's the value

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exchange that makes the most sense.

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Um, so for us-

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Mm-hmm [affirmative].

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... uh, Swpely is a free tool.

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So obviously we don't have, I

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can't say like, "Hey, we're gonna

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offer you like 100 bucks off."

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But a lot of SaaS products do have the

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ability to, to do some of that stuff and,

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and leverage that, and I think that's

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a great tool to leverage for yourself.

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And so if you're able to, to offer that

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value to that person and really lead

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with value, or, or maybe it's access to

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something that other users aren't getting

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yet, um, or whatever that is, uh, a-

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and really opening up that conversation,

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and, and let them go and try it on

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their own, um, and see how they like it.

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Um, and, you know, as conversations

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continue to progress, uh, you know,

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figure out what that agreement

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looks like that's going to benefit

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mutual value from both sides.

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Um, and the best tip that I'll leave

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off with too for that is, whenever

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it's time for them to, to post, um,

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or you're asking them to post or, or

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helping you out in that sense, don't put

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parameters around the content itself.

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You have to let them really run with it

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because they know what kind of content

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best resonates with their audience.

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Um, and so you really have to, to let them

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figure out how can they spin your tool or

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spin your product to fit their audience.

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Yeah, absolutely right.

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And I think like, so you go into this

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almost like completely open-ended, right?

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Where you're just like, "Hey, this, this

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week or whatever, we're launching this

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new feature or something, like we'd love

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for you to post," and leave it at that?

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Yeah.

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So it's really, I just am

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very open with sharing.

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So I think it's also important for

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someone to be that person at any company,

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um, have that one person that's going

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to be active and sharing, um, content.

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And that can be the person that can

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kinda open up those lines as well.

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Um, and it's really kind of like, we, we

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work on it in a couple of different ways.

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Uh, so for us, we actually have,

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that's one thing I can't share is

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a certain like value exchange, um-

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[laughs] Yeah.

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... for, for the company, um, in

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terms of like, 'cause obviously

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we're giving away a free tool.

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Um, so-

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Mm-hmm [affirmative].

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... we have certain things that we

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give away, uh, with influencers,

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for us to make up for the fact

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that, you know, our product's free.

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Um, but for other people, I think

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it's really just figuring out what

Speaker:

that value exchange looks like.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Speaker:

Um, and, and going ahead and doing that.

Speaker:

Um, and for us, like, like I

Speaker:

said, we don't have any really

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parameters for, for posting.

Speaker:

Um, and you know, as long as you're

Speaker:

going to the right creators, people that

Speaker:

would probably fit your target persona,

Speaker:

that's the best thing you can do.

Speaker:

Because if you built a pretty solid

Speaker:

product, chances are they'll use it.

Speaker:

And if they are getting something for

Speaker:

free or discounted versus what other

Speaker:

people are paying for, they'll be

Speaker:

probably more excited about it [laughs].

Speaker:

It's, it's brilliant, and I think

Speaker:

that like, like I said, I think B2B

Speaker:

influencers or brand founders or

Speaker:

whatever we're gonna call it, um, will

Speaker:

be more common in the next coming years.

Speaker:

But like, I just think people haven't

Speaker:

really jumped on that train yet.

Speaker:

I assume that people are probably going

Speaker:

out to try and, you know, get these

Speaker:

influencers in the way that you're

Speaker:

saying don't do it, uh, like, you

Speaker:

know, with a very sales-esque mindset

Speaker:

of like, it's very like transactional.

Speaker:

And at the end of the day, like you

Speaker:

just have to think that these are people

Speaker:

too that will be promoting your brand

Speaker:

on their own brand, you know, like

Speaker:

on top of their own personal profile.

Speaker:

And so trying to treat it as though

Speaker:

it were a transactional like sales

Speaker:

engagement just will not be as

Speaker:

effective as if you're really trying

Speaker:

to create an actual relationship, like

Speaker:

a long-term relationship with these

Speaker:

people that you'd like to help promote

Speaker:

your brand or your product or whatever

Speaker:

it is you're putting out to market.

Speaker:

Yeah, totally.

Speaker:

And, you know, I think it

Speaker:

connects back to even whoever

Speaker:

your users and real customers are.

Speaker:

I'm very much-

Speaker:

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Speaker:

... of the mindset and I always tell other

Speaker:

people that I come across, when you're

Speaker:

acquiring customers or users, or even

Speaker:

like these influencers, think of every

Speaker:

single person as an opportunity for this

Speaker:

person to become a super fan of your

Speaker:

product or whatever you're delivering.

Speaker:

Um, and really turn them to someone

Speaker:

that can really share your product.

Speaker:

You know, even if they have only

Speaker:

five people in their network, cool.

Speaker:

That's five more people that

Speaker:

you can bring into your product.

Speaker:

If they have 10 people, that's 10 people.

Speaker:

If they have 1000, that's

Speaker:

awesome, that's 1000 people.

Speaker:

But every single person, regardless

Speaker:

of how big or how small their audience

Speaker:

should be, you should be working to

Speaker:

create them and turn them into super fans.

Speaker:

So that way, you know,

Speaker:

it's not transactional.

Speaker:

Just because you're working with

Speaker:

an influencer doesn't mean that's

Speaker:

where you draw the line between

Speaker:

not making it tra- transactional.

Speaker:

I think that should be the

Speaker:

case for every single user or

Speaker:

customer that's brought on board.

Speaker:

Yeah, no, that's a g- that's

Speaker:

a really great point too.

Speaker:

And I think that a lot of that focus

Speaker:

at scale just gets lost in translation.

Speaker:

Um, but ultimately like regardless of

Speaker:

scale, like even if you're, you know,

Speaker:

a one person startup or 1000 person

Speaker:

company, um, that's the goal for everyone.

Speaker:

And I think at some point it just,

Speaker:

uh, it shifts or gets like muddied.

Speaker:

Um, but no, that's a,

Speaker:

that's a great point.

Speaker:

Um, okay.

Speaker:

So we've talked about some of these

Speaker:

non-standard marketing tactics

Speaker:

that you've tried in terms of, um,

Speaker:

giveaways to like DGMG and, um,

Speaker:

Copy.ai partnerships and influencers.

Speaker:

But I think there's some other things too

Speaker:

that you mentioned last time we chatted,

Speaker:

that I'd love to kind of get an update on.

Speaker:

I know that season passes was one

Speaker:

of them, and that might not be what

Speaker:

you're calling it, [laughs] but I think

Speaker:

it was like sometimes season pass.

Speaker:

Can you tell us what that is,

Speaker:

a little bit more about it?

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

So since Swpely is free, obviously we

Speaker:

don't generate any revenue, um, which is-

Speaker:

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Speaker:

... the best part of running a business.

Speaker:

It's, uh-

Speaker:

[laughs].

Speaker:

... definitely the way that

Speaker:

most businesses run.

Speaker:

Um, obviously I'm joking, but-

Speaker:

Yeah [laughs].

Speaker:

... um, so for us, you know, we wanted to drum

Speaker:

up a little bit of revenue, um, as well.

Speaker:

And I think this really speaks more

Speaker:

towards like building a brand versus

Speaker:

just, um, you know, having a single

Speaker:

product or whatever your product is.

Speaker:

You know, if you're selling-

Speaker:

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Speaker:

... video meetings, like you don't

Speaker:

just have to sell video meetings.

Speaker:

Um, so for us, one of the things that

Speaker:

we did was this Swpely season pass.

Speaker:

So we just basically set

Speaker:

up an Eventbrite event.

Speaker:

Um, I gotta shout out to, um, Twitter

Speaker:

for this one, 'cause I got this

Speaker:

suggestion from here from someone else.

Speaker:

Um, but we set up an Eventbrite and

Speaker:

basically sold tickets to teach people

Speaker:

how we got to 1000 users in 23 days.

Speaker:

And we also shared, you know,

Speaker:

um, what we're using for our tech

Speaker:

stack and what we used to build

Speaker:

the business at the beginning.

Speaker:

Um, and like how we're spending

Speaker:

less than 150 bucks a month as a

Speaker:

business, and kind of like how we

Speaker:

think about some different problems.

Speaker:

And so we sold some tickets for that.

Speaker:

Um, and I'm super, I, I love doing low,

Speaker:

low effort tasks that are high reward.

Speaker:

And so this was one of those.

Speaker:

Um, you know, I didn't spend a ton

Speaker:

of time marketing this thing out.

Speaker:

Um, I didn't spend a ton of time

Speaker:

putting together this crazy like

Speaker:

presentation or, or thing for it.

Speaker:

Um, I'm very much of maximizing things.

Speaker:

So what we did, so we

Speaker:

sold tickets for that.

Speaker:

Um, we had three different

Speaker:

tiers that we set up.

Speaker:

Uh, one of them was just the event,

Speaker:

one of them was the event plus a Q&A

Speaker:

after the event, um, and the other

Speaker:

like included 30 minutes one-on-one

Speaker:

with me, uh, to chat about whatever.

Speaker:

Uh, and so we sold that and then what

Speaker:

we did too to generate some more revenue

Speaker:

for us, is we actually took the video

Speaker:

recordings and like I made a small PDF

Speaker:

for each session, and we repackaged that

Speaker:

and sold it on Gumroad, um, to get some

Speaker:

more extra money as well for the business.

Speaker:

And so just some kind

Speaker:

of fun plays like that.

Speaker:

I'm very much of a believer

Speaker:

that you don't have to just give

Speaker:

away all your value for free.

Speaker:

I mean, that's a great way to bring

Speaker:

people in, but if you have value,

Speaker:

people will pay for that stuff.

Speaker:

Another play that I actually really

Speaker:

liked that we hadn't worked on yet,

Speaker:

um, is at some point, maybe towards

Speaker:

the end of this year, Q3, Q4, uh,

Speaker:

we're planning on opening up an

Speaker:

e-commerce store for Swpely merch.

Speaker:

Um, so just another way.

Speaker:

I know a lot of businesses give

Speaker:

away free product, uh, but the cool

Speaker:

thing about opening up an e-commerce

Speaker:

store and doing this, I think fast

Speaker:

is a great example, actually, um, of

Speaker:

a brand that [crosstalk 00:23:28].

Speaker:

I was gonna say, or Lessonly.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Lessonly is also doing a really great job.

Speaker:

I think it's like Ollie Llama Co.

Speaker:

or something.

Speaker:

But it's really great merch, right?

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

It's, we, and hey, here's

Speaker:

the thing about that merch.

Speaker:

Like not only, first of all,

Speaker:

you're not losing money on it

Speaker:

because you're not giving it away.

Speaker:

[laughs].

Speaker:

Um, you're generating revenue and

Speaker:

those people that purchased are

Speaker:

gonna be way more likely to be

Speaker:

connected to your brand because they

Speaker:

actually spent money on something.

Speaker:

Like who's gonna throw away, uh, a

Speaker:

hoodie if you spent like 40 bucks on it?

Speaker:

Like maybe you'll toss it out in

Speaker:

like a few years or whatever, but

Speaker:

like, you're not gonna toss that

Speaker:

away like the next day, or it's not

Speaker:

just gonna be sitting in your closet.

Speaker:

Like if you paid 40 bucks for that, 50

Speaker:

bucks for that, you're probably gonna

Speaker:

wear it a few times and, and get some use.

Speaker:

So those are some things that

Speaker:

I kind of consider for a brand.

Speaker:

Like there's, there's a lot of

Speaker:

different things that you can

Speaker:

do, a lot of fun things to do.

Speaker:

Um, and I just don't like to limit

Speaker:

to what the main product on offer is.

Speaker:

Yeah, no, exactly.

Speaker:

And I think that's what's going

Speaker:

to differentiate you in the

Speaker:

market, um, or any like tech

Speaker:

company in the market, right?

Speaker:

That's doing things that are outside

Speaker:

of this traditional mold that B2B

Speaker:

has kind of like put themselves in.

Speaker:

Um, and even like going back to the,

Speaker:

um, hoodie conversation, like I have

Speaker:

a Llama, or I think it's Ollie Llama.

Speaker:

I'll have to look it up after

Speaker:

this, but, um, I know it's

Speaker:

Lessonly, that's the point.

Speaker:

Anyways, I have one, a

Speaker:

pullover, it's like really nice.

Speaker:

And every time I've worn it, which

Speaker:

has been maybe five times, someone

Speaker:

has asked me like, "Oh, what is that?"

Speaker:

So it's a great conversation piece

Speaker:

too, because every time I'm like,

Speaker:

"Oh, it's this great tech company,

Speaker:

ta da da, it's actually Lessonly,

Speaker:

it has nothing to do with hoodies."

Speaker:

It's just like a really-

Speaker:

[laughs].

Speaker:

... natural conversation.

Speaker:

And so it's a good, um, it's

Speaker:

a good conversation starter

Speaker:

and a great brand piece.

Speaker:

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker:

And they're making money for that.

Speaker:

So that's awesome.

Speaker:

They get to-

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And especially you guys, right?

Speaker:

... [laughs].

Speaker:

An extra revenue stream,

Speaker:

you're like, "I'm here for it."

Speaker:

We've also got some, uh, fun NFT stuff

Speaker:

signed up, uh, ideas too, but I'll, I'll

Speaker:

save that for maybe another discussion.

Speaker:

All that I know about NFTs are that we

Speaker:

just did our first NFT a few weeks ago.

Speaker:

And by our, I mean, I cannot

Speaker:

take credit for any of this.

Speaker:

Um, Nolan is our video guy, but

Speaker:

we all wear tons of random hats.

Speaker:

So somebody, one of the sales guys, Kyle

Speaker:

Willis, he's actually a sales guy over

Speaker:

at ZoomInfo, put up a really funny GIF

Speaker:

of him dancing on, for closing a big

Speaker:

deal, um, for the last day of the month.

Speaker:

And we turned his dance into an NFT.

Speaker:

I can't take credit for that at

Speaker:

all, but it was really, it was

Speaker:

really entertaining to make.

Speaker:

Um, he of course loved it and

Speaker:

then we got tons of like great

Speaker:

coverage for it on LinkedIn.

Speaker:

So no, I would love to know

Speaker:

what your thoughts are [laughs].

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

That's super sweet.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

We're thinking about, uh, doing some like

Speaker:

Swpely trading cards for some early users.

Speaker:

Um, and the thought behind that is that

Speaker:

hopefully in the next, you know, five

Speaker:

to 10 years when Swpely's a much bigger

Speaker:

company, um, it would be cool to have one

Speaker:

of those like first edition trading cards

Speaker:

from back when the company just started.

Speaker:

I love that so much.

Speaker:

Okay, cool.

Speaker:

Um, do you have other thoughts

Speaker:

while we're on this topic

Speaker:

outside of, um, trading cards?

Speaker:

[laughs]

Speaker:

Uh, yeah.

Speaker:

I don't know.

Speaker:

I mean, I honestly come up with

Speaker:

[laughs] weird revenue stream

Speaker:

ideas, like all the time.

Speaker:

Like I even like, like Swpely is

Speaker:

like, obviously, like our core

Speaker:

product is a tool for like content

Speaker:

saving and content sharing.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Speaker:

But I kinda consider Swpely as more

Speaker:

of like a very, not just a one size

Speaker:

fits all like tech company, so like

Speaker:

if we have an idea for like a business

Speaker:

and the way I kinda see revenue,

Speaker:

um, is just like a means, like a

Speaker:

mechanism for us to be able to grow.

Speaker:

It's not just, uh, you know, hey,

Speaker:

we need to keep generating X amount

Speaker:

of dollars from here and continue

Speaker:

to keep scaling and stuff like that.

Speaker:

Like, there's gonna be points in our

Speaker:

business, uh, that we'll hit like blocks

Speaker:

where, you know, either we've hit a block

Speaker:

on how much of the market we can, uh,

Speaker:

capture in a certain niche or vertical

Speaker:

or whatever, um, and that's gonna happen.

Speaker:

And so for us, I kinda just

Speaker:

consider that as an opportunity.

Speaker:

Hey, we're just gonna start building

Speaker:

some other blocks over here.

Speaker:

Maybe we wanna start this other like,

Speaker:

uh, product that maybe only generates

Speaker:

10K a month or something like that.

Speaker:

Um, and you know, that's not a lot

Speaker:

of money, but you know, if we're

Speaker:

able to generate a return on our

Speaker:

investment for whatever we spend to

Speaker:

build something like that, 10K a month

Speaker:

is maybe one or two people's salary.

Speaker:

Um, and so-

Speaker:

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Speaker:

... that's kinda how I think about revenue

Speaker:

is, you know, it's just really,

Speaker:

uh, a means for us to continue to

Speaker:

build and scale and acquire more

Speaker:

and more dollars for the business.

Speaker:

And so what you'll probably see at some

Speaker:

point, you know, as, as long as things

Speaker:

that's likely go smooth, which they have

Speaker:

so far, uh, we'll come out with other cool

Speaker:

products and, you know, we're not looking

Speaker:

to, to scale to like every product to like

Speaker:

hundreds of thousands, millions of users.

Speaker:

Uh, but hey, if we get like 5,000 people

Speaker:

using a product and they're paying maybe

Speaker:

like 10 bucks a month, uh, that could

Speaker:

be 50K MRR, um, and pay for a lot of

Speaker:

people's salaries and stuff like that,

Speaker:

or even like a company trip [laughs].

Speaker:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker:

Or even a really cool company trip.

Speaker:

But like when you take a step back and you

Speaker:

think about your like product roadmap, or

Speaker:

even your planning, I realize y'all are

Speaker:

still early stages, but are you thinking

Speaker:

about things in terms of like six months

Speaker:

sprints or even quarter-long sprints?

Speaker:

Or are you just kind of opportunistic in

Speaker:

terms of like what comes next for Swpely?

Speaker:

Yeah, I think it's more so

Speaker:

having an opportunistic mindset

Speaker:

and that's the case right now.

Speaker:

'Cause you know, we're still

Speaker:

early, things are gonna change,

Speaker:

the market's gonna change.

Speaker:

And, um, we've only

Speaker:

been around for so long.

Speaker:

So I have to consistently like adapt,

Speaker:

and plus, I don't have the bandwidth

Speaker:

to, to go and spend like a whole day

Speaker:

like planning out our entire plan

Speaker:

for, for six months or whatever.

Speaker:

And so we're very much of like fast

Speaker:

moving and, and I love doing that stuff.

Speaker:

I think, uh, you have to sort of have

Speaker:

an opportunity in your business to be

Speaker:

agile and be able to, to jump on a trend.

Speaker:

You can't be so inflexible to say like,

Speaker:

"Oh, hey, this cool new thing came out

Speaker:

and yeah, we're not gonna do it because

Speaker:

we already have our plan in place."

Speaker:

Um, and I think that's

Speaker:

really not the best approach.

Speaker:

Um, and so for us, like, uh, I, I just

Speaker:

leave, love moving as fast as I can.

Speaker:

Um, and I also don't like limiting

Speaker:

what our potential can be.

Speaker:

Um, and so I find plans to sometimes

Speaker:

be limiting where you're like-

Speaker:

Hmm.

Speaker:

... "Hey, oh yeah, we're gonna get

Speaker:

this done in like three months."

Speaker:

So, okay.

Speaker:

So that means, you know, you might

Speaker:

spend a month not really doing

Speaker:

very much, because that might be

Speaker:

a task that takes like two months.

Speaker:

Um, and so for us, I'm constantly

Speaker:

just getting us as fast as we can go.

Speaker:

Uh, and sometimes that still means

Speaker:

we're gonna have slow periods, um,

Speaker:

and we'll have fast periods as well.

Speaker:

Um, but the goal is to, to really just

Speaker:

move fast and not let time, um, manage us.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

So speaking of managing time, you in this

Speaker:

role are clearly wearing a ton of hats.

Speaker:

And I feel like most marketers are

Speaker:

also wearing tons of hats, even

Speaker:

if they aren't a founder or CEO

Speaker:

[laughs] of a current company.

Speaker:

Um, how do you manage, like what

Speaker:

tactically do you do to manage the

Speaker:

micro hats that you have to wear in

Speaker:

terms of like execution and day-to-day

Speaker:

grind, on top of the macro hats of like

Speaker:

the business, the vision, projections

Speaker:

for your company at the same time?

Speaker:

Like what does that look like daily?

Speaker:

Or maybe start high level and then

Speaker:

go daily, but I'm super interested

Speaker:

to know how you balance both.

Speaker:

Yeah, for sure.

Speaker:

I like to, I probably split my days

Speaker:

more on like a day-to-day basis.

Speaker:

Um, so I have like high-level plans

Speaker:

and every time I have a high level

Speaker:

plan, um, which like pops into my

Speaker:

head, I'll, I'll usually write it

Speaker:

down and then I'll collect those ideas

Speaker:

on maybe like a day on the weekend

Speaker:

or something like that and organize

Speaker:

what that longterm vision looks like.

Speaker:

But in terms of day-to-day execution,

Speaker:

um, I usually like during the

Speaker:

daytime, I will spend a lot of

Speaker:

time, uh, you know, interacting with

Speaker:

our, our users or my audience that

Speaker:

I've built up and things like that.

Speaker:

And then I'll usually save my

Speaker:

evenings for like deep work and,

Speaker:

and getting that stuff done.

Speaker:

Um, I think what's really important

Speaker:

too is not everything has to

Speaker:

be going on at the same time.

Speaker:

Um, and I think that's where, uh,

Speaker:

that can trip up a lot of people.

Speaker:

Like you don't have to be checking

Speaker:

this stat like every single day,

Speaker:

like, um, or things like that.

Speaker:

And so that's what I focus on is,

Speaker:

you know, some things I'll just leave

Speaker:

be and I'll say, "Hey, I'll come

Speaker:

back and check on this in two days

Speaker:

and, and we'll see where it's at."

Speaker:

Uh, but you have to have those

Speaker:

moments where you step into deep work.

Speaker:

Um, and so I usually get

Speaker:

mine done in the evening.

Speaker:

Um, obviously my schedule is very

Speaker:

different than most people because,

Speaker:

uh, for most people and as they should,

Speaker:

you know, you shouldn't have to be

Speaker:

working at a job like 18 hours a day.

Speaker:

You should be working for, you know,

Speaker:

X amount of hours and then have a

Speaker:

personal life and do all that stuff.

Speaker:

I'm a founder.

Speaker:

So, um, first of all, I'm really

Speaker:

passionate about what I do and second of

Speaker:

all, um, I need to keep working because

Speaker:

otherwise I can't grow my business.

Speaker:

It's like the hardest part

Speaker:

is going from zero to one.

Speaker:

Um-

Speaker:

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Speaker:

... but yeah, that's kind of

Speaker:

how I, I manage my day.

Speaker:

Um, you know, during the, the

Speaker:

mornings, uh, I will, you know, be

Speaker:

engaging with my audience, uh, working

Speaker:

on some smaller tasks that really

Speaker:

don't require that much brain power.

Speaker:

And then at a certain point, I'll kind

Speaker:

of switch into deep work where I'll

Speaker:

shut off like communication and stuff

Speaker:

like that and, and really just dive

Speaker:

into, uh, a couple of tasks at hand.

Speaker:

I always like to, to focus on

Speaker:

like, um, you know, I set two to

Speaker:

three very high level deep tasks

Speaker:

that I wanna get done every day.

Speaker:

Um, whether it's like implementing

Speaker:

something or spending some time

Speaker:

like analyzing data that we have.

Speaker:

Uh, and so that's kinda what I do

Speaker:

in, and once I have those three

Speaker:

wins off my checklist, um, that's

Speaker:

kinda like my, my day is complete.

Speaker:

Nice, I like that.

Speaker:

And are you managing your deep

Speaker:

tasks or like daily to do's in

Speaker:

like a spreadsheet or in your head?

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Uh, I use probably, uh, notes for that.

Speaker:

So I have like, uh, a

Speaker:

little like journal or-

Speaker:

Love it.

Speaker:

... whatever you want to call it, um,

Speaker:

to write down some of that stuff.

Speaker:

Oh, it's called notes [laughs].

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

So, and I'm, I'm actually, I'm exc-

Speaker:

I'm super excited once we start

Speaker:

getting, uh, some other features

Speaker:

for note taking up in Swpely.

Speaker:

That's gonna be, so I'll probably move it-

Speaker:

Oh.

Speaker:

... back into there.

Speaker:

Um, but for right now, that's what I do.

Speaker:

I also try and do, um, a lot

Speaker:

of time blocking as well.

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I'm, I'm not the best at it, but I'm, I'm

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trying to get better, 1% better every day.

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Um, but that's been really helpful to at

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least kinda like visualize what are those

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tasks at hand that I need to complete?

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Yeah, no, I think that's incredible.

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Time blocking for me is like my saving

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grace, because I feel like I, um, never

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say no, it's very hard for me to say no.

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So I just constantly accept new

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requests to do new things all the time.

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Time blocking has been great.

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We can like actually just like make

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the task as a time, a block of time

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on my calendar, and I know that if

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I don't have any blank spots, then

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that means I actually can't do it.

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And that is what I default, like

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default to when I have to say no.

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Like no, I literally can't do it because

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there isn't any free time on my calendar.

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Yeah, it's super hard [laughs].

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Um, which I wasn't good at before.

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Yeah.

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I wasn't good at it before, I'm

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still working on it now, like you

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said, like 1% better every day.

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It's hard for me to say no, because

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I'm like really excited about,

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like I love what I do for work.

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And so I really, I get really

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bought into it and I just want

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to do all things for all people.

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So like saying no and making the

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time is probably the hardest part.

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But calendar blocking does help.

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Yeah.

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It's super useful.

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One of the things that's really helped

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me, um, to get better at it is I always

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like to leave like, uh, like a 15 minute

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buffer after my task ends, or supposedly-

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Mm-hmm [affirmative].

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... supposed to end, because I often find

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myself like going down rabbit holes.

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And like, [laughs] if I don't leave that

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buffer, sometimes I'll get to the block

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and I'll be like, "Man, I really wanna

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spend a little bit more time on this."

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Um, so that kind of makes it a

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little bit easier to time block

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as well, so I can have that kind

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of like wind down period also.

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Okay.

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Last question that I always like to

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ask guests when they come on, is who's

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another marketer or even founder in

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your case in the space that you are

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following that our audience should go

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follow, read their books, subscribe

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to them, whatever medium they're on.

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Yeah.

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Um, man there's so many good ones-

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[laughs].

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... to pick from.

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Uh, I'm gonna get a lot, I'm gonna get

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in a lot of trouble for the people that

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I don't end up picking since you're

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asking me to just pick one person.

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[laughs].

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Um, I think one person that's, uh,

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really been, uh, fun and interesting to

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follow, um, is probably Camille Trent.

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Um, she's actually one of the advisors

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for Swpely, uh, but she's probably like

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one of the best, uh, content writers,

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editorial directors that I know.

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I mean, uh, she works at MarketerHire.

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Some of the work that she does is like,

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um, I'm like, man, I wish I had, uh,

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the ability to do some of the stuff

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that, that she does in terms of writing.

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Um, and she's just a really great, um,

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marketer, um, just really gre- a great

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copywriter and an excellent marketer.

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So that's who I'll probably,

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uh, throw out for this.

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You should definitely talk to

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her, um, about convincing people

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and she's also grown her, uh,

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audience really, really fast.

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Oh, well.

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And she's primarily active on LinkedIn?

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Yeah, she is primarily active on LinkedIn.

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Perfect.

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No, that's incredible.

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I will go follow her for myself

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and then of course, anybody

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listening, go check her out as well.

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Um, for anybody that wants to keep

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up with you or follow along with

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you, uh, Twitter, LinkedIn, both?

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Uh, yeah, both is-

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[laughs].

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... what I'm on right now.

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Um, so if you want to connect with me on

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LinkedIn, uh, feel free to just Jay Desai,

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J-A-Y, uh, last name Desai, D-E-S-A-I.

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Uh, search it up.

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If you're connected with Kaylee,

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you'll probably be able to find me.

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Uh, and then on Twitter, I'm

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J-A-T, so at, um, and then Swpely.

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Uh, so I just recently actually changed

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that, but, uh, yeah, feel free to

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connect with me on Twitter or LinkedIn.

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Uh, I used to say that I respond

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back in the same day, but now

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it's probably like 48 hours.

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[laughs].

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But if you send me a message, you

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will hear back from me at some point.

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So feel free to reach out to me,

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I love connecting with people,

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I love talking with people.

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Um, and if you have any questions

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about anything we chatted

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about, uh, my DMs are open.

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Love it.

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Thank you so much for coming on the

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podcast and sharing your wisdom with us.

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I think it's just super

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intriguing, um, how you're going

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about building this product.

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And of course, like how I found out about

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you guys, obviously it's all working.

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I am always very influenced by, um,

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really out of the box marketing tactics.

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So when, um, I was kind of swarmed with

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all of the people that already know and

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love Swpely, I was very convinced myself.

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So hopefully others listening find

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this, um, insightful and can take some

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of these ideas around giveaways or

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influencers, um, and implement them

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into their own marketing strategies.

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So for anybody listening that

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found today's content helpful

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or valuable in any way, please

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make sure to leave us a review.

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It helps us continue to make valuable

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content like this and bring it your

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