Transcripts
Hey everyone and welcome back to
Speaker:another episode of Demand Gen Chat.
Speaker:I'm your host Kaylee Edmondson and
Speaker:today we are joined by Jay Desai, who is
Speaker:the marketer turned founder of Swpely,
Speaker:and currently the host of DTC POD.
Speaker:Thanks for having me, Kaylee.
Speaker:I'm super excited to, to chat.
Speaker:I know we have some fun
Speaker:topics planned [laughs].
Speaker:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:Do you wanna just dig right in, start
Speaker:with a little bit about yourself and
Speaker:what you're doing right now at Swpely?
Speaker:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker:Uh, so hey everybody, I'm Jay,
Speaker:I'm the founder of Swpely.
Speaker:Swpely is basically a tool to
Speaker:help you save, curate and share
Speaker:content from all over the internet.
Speaker:Um, so like not just websites and
Speaker:images, but like videos, podcasts,
Speaker:LinkedIn posts, tweets, all the
Speaker:content, uh, it gets interactive with,
Speaker:uh, live in the actual application.
Speaker:So you don't have to like click around for
Speaker:a bunch of links or anything like that.
Speaker:Um, I just actually started Swpely
Speaker:probably, it's been like seven months
Speaker:now, six months, something like that.
Speaker:Um, but before I was working on Swpely,
Speaker:I was actually working at a B2B company
Speaker:for influencer marketing called Trend,
Speaker:um, where I was the head of growth over
Speaker:there and helped, uh, grow the company
Speaker:from six paying brands to 400 in a year.
Speaker:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:No, I think Swpely is so interesting.
Speaker:And just for anybody listening, how I
Speaker:found out about Swpely, I guess it was
Speaker:like a month or so ago now, I had posted,
Speaker:um, a poll on LinkedIn just saying, "Hey,
Speaker:does everyone here have a swipe file?"
Speaker:Uh, like yes or no.
Speaker:And it was kind of crazy.
Speaker:I feel like everybody came out of the
Speaker:woodwork to comment on it and let me know
Speaker:that I needed to be using Swpely and like
Speaker:Swpely would solve all of my problems.
Speaker:Um, we had some really great
Speaker:conversations in the comments where
Speaker:I was just like, I feel that I have
Speaker:some things saved in emails and
Speaker:some things saved on my desktop.
Speaker:It's like, if, you know, if you close all
Speaker:my tabs, my desktop was like a nightmare
Speaker:of just things that I had seen in the
Speaker:wild that I wanted to reference back to.
Speaker:I'm like all the time trying to look at
Speaker:how people are running their advertising
Speaker:campaigns and steal inspiration
Speaker:from it, but it was, um, not a very
Speaker:active way to keep track of things.
Speaker:So anyways, that's kind of how
Speaker:I first heard about Jay and
Speaker:[inaudible 00:02:10] company.
Speaker:Um, I don't know, probably
Speaker:20 people at least commented
Speaker:specifically saying I needed Swpely.
Speaker:So I'm, I'm a user, I love it so much.
Speaker:But I wanna know specifically.
Speaker:So you're at Trend and you find there's
Speaker:a huge gap in the market, everybody's
Speaker:organizing their files like me in
Speaker:a little bit of everywhere, right?
Speaker:Is that how this kinda came to life?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Uh, I think you kinda
Speaker:nailed it over there.
Speaker:I think, uh, some of the other factors
Speaker:that were kind of at play for me
Speaker:personally, um, and, and kind of to
Speaker:just share, I'm building Swpely for
Speaker:myself for my own problem [laughs].
Speaker:[laughs].
Speaker:Um, so that's a little bit about
Speaker:it, but to give a little bit more
Speaker:context and back story over there,
Speaker:it really kind of started to
Speaker:manifest probably back in July, 2020.
Speaker:I started working on building my
Speaker:personal brand on LinkedIn, um, and
Speaker:posting every day, talking about
Speaker:different marketing things, 'cause that's
Speaker:what I, was the field that I was in.
Speaker:Um, but I actually just, uh, graduated
Speaker:from college like three years ago.
Speaker:So I only have so many
Speaker:experiences to share.
Speaker:Um, and so after a while, what I found
Speaker:myself doing was really kind of putting
Speaker:my own take or my ideas on other
Speaker:concepts that people were presenting.
Speaker:And so with that, I used to collect a
Speaker:lot of different ideas and topics, things
Speaker:that I could potentially talk about.
Speaker:Uh, and then you combine that
Speaker:at the same time with, uh,
Speaker:at Trend we had a newsletter.
Speaker:Um, so I was constantly
Speaker:collecting resources for that.
Speaker:We had a podcast as well, kind of
Speaker:like how you mentioned earlier Kaylee.
Speaker:So we had to always come up with content
Speaker:ideas over there, and really it kinda
Speaker:just all became a mess on my computer.
Speaker:And I was engaging with a lot of
Speaker:different types of content as well,
Speaker:which I'm sure most marketers today do.
Speaker:We don't just engage with
Speaker:like websites or images.
Speaker:People watch videos, people listen
Speaker:to podcasts, uh, Twitter and LinkedIn
Speaker:has become really big as well.
Speaker:And so consuming all of these
Speaker:different types of content in
Speaker:different forms makes it really
Speaker:difficult to keep everything in place.
Speaker:So that was kind of like the
Speaker:aha moment for me building this.
Speaker:And then one of the other things that
Speaker:really helped push me over the edge
Speaker:over there was back in September,
Speaker:2020, I was moving apartments and my
Speaker:girlfriend finally convinced me to jump
Speaker:onto Pinterest to start saving stuff.
Speaker:Um, and I really liked all the
Speaker:recommendations that I got, from
Speaker:furniture and, um, things that were
Speaker:like more to my tastes and preferences.
Speaker:And I was like, there's gotta be something
Speaker:like this that exists for content.
Speaker:And so that was really all of
Speaker:those different factors, uh, kind
Speaker:of manifested into what Swpely
Speaker:is today and what we're building.
Speaker:And so as you're making the transition
Speaker:from Trend over to Swpely and, you know,
Speaker:putting all of your time and effort behind
Speaker:launching this, I know that you, um,
Speaker:you know, s- stopped working full-time
Speaker:at Trend, but kept the podcast going.
Speaker:And, you know, so you could shift
Speaker:some of your time and effort into
Speaker:standing Swpely up as you see it today.
Speaker:Talk a little bit about how you
Speaker:started to get those wheels turning
Speaker:and generating those first 100 signups.
Speaker:I think one of the biggest things that
Speaker:I learned was probably in March, 2020.
Speaker:I've always wanted to start
Speaker:my own business for a while.
Speaker:Um, and so I tried my hand at a sports
Speaker:newsletter thing that was supposed to kind
Speaker:of be like a morning brew, but for sports.
Speaker:And-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... so I, I spent not a lot of money,
Speaker:but probably ended up spending
Speaker:like 1000 bucks and, on an idea
Speaker:that never really took off.
Speaker:And, um, after that, I was really like,
Speaker:I don't wanna spend, it wasn't a ton
Speaker:of money, but I, I'm still like, I've
Speaker:worked at a lot of smaller companies
Speaker:and so that tends to make me a little
Speaker:bit more careful about how I spend.
Speaker:And so I was like, I don't
Speaker:want to spend a dollars without
Speaker:validating an idea ever again.
Speaker:Um, 'cause I could have used
Speaker:that money for a vacation
Speaker:or whatever, something else.
Speaker:[laughs].
Speaker:Um, and so what I did this time
Speaker:was actually, I put together the
Speaker:website, uh, we just had like a single
Speaker:email sequence, uh, and I put it
Speaker:out to my, my network on LinkedIn.
Speaker:So I've been working on building my
Speaker:personal brand, um, starting from July
Speaker:and, and put it out probably the first
Speaker:week of November, and basically said,
Speaker:"Hey, if anyone's interested, go ahead
Speaker:and sign up for this thing," and the
Speaker:idea behind it was, if there was enough
Speaker:people interested, we'd be able to,
Speaker:to build the product and I'd feel a
Speaker:lot more comfortable spending money.
Speaker:And with that, um, you know, one
Speaker:thing that I also ran to to kind
Speaker:of bump up that, that wait list as
Speaker:well was we did give away for two
Speaker:Patreon subscriptions, one for Dave
Speaker:Gerhardt's, uh, DGMG and another one
Speaker:for John Bonini's Some Good Content.
Speaker:So my audience is mostly marketing
Speaker:people and I figured, uh, why not give
Speaker:them something that they'll actually
Speaker:use that's, uh, a marketing resource.
Speaker:And so that helped to really
Speaker:drive the wait list up.
Speaker:And, um, we actually built like a little
Speaker:bit of a flywheel as well in that sense.
Speaker:So, you know, not only did a sign up
Speaker:equal an entry, but if you got other
Speaker:people to sign up, you got more entries.
Speaker:And then we also gave out more entries
Speaker:for people responding back to emails.
Speaker:And so that really got the sharing
Speaker:we all started, and that's really
Speaker:what, uh, got us to 100 people.
Speaker:But also like building the
Speaker:community aspect of Swpely as well,
Speaker:because it's very engaging, right?
Speaker:And, and it entices you to engage
Speaker:not only with you as the founder, but
Speaker:also with other like fellow Swpely
Speaker:members on LinkedIn and Twitter,
Speaker:uh, which is super interesting.
Speaker:And you talk about this, uh, first
Speaker:startup, I don't know how much you wanna
Speaker:talk about it, but I'm really interested
Speaker:in, now you spent $1000, what'd you
Speaker:spend it on and what'd you learn most?
Speaker:Like what, how did you, like, what
Speaker:were your signals to be able to say
Speaker:like, "Okay, this is not taking off.
Speaker:This is failing."
Speaker:In order for you to say, "Okay, I need to
Speaker:stop this and like move to the next idea."
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I think the biggest signal was just
Speaker:the, not necessarily the cost of
Speaker:user acquisition, but the time of it.
Speaker:And so we were doing some stuff,
Speaker:uh, obviously like we started
Speaker:in March, 2020, right when-
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:... COVID was really taking up, obviously
Speaker:the best time to start a business.
Speaker:[laughing] Um, and so, uh, sports got
Speaker:shut down at the same time and I was like-
Speaker:[laughs].
Speaker:... what am I gonna do over here?
Speaker:And so, you know, we started testing some
Speaker:stuff out on like Twitch, uh, spending
Speaker:a little bit on marketing over there.
Speaker:And then just really, I think the thing
Speaker:that was, um, the biggest expense that
Speaker:we had was actually forming the business.
Speaker:Um, and that was-
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:... probably the biggest mistake that I made,
Speaker:uh, because it's really like spending
Speaker:money on things that don't necessarily
Speaker:need to be bought when you don't have
Speaker:revenue or, or things like that exist.
Speaker:And, you know, we'd spent some
Speaker:money too on like, you know, having
Speaker:a, a more premium like site plan
Speaker:that we were paying for, and more
Speaker:premium level for our email tool.
Speaker:Like we could have just used a free
Speaker:planner or something like that.
Speaker:And it's those little things that
Speaker:you don't really think, um, are big.
Speaker:Um, but they start to, to add
Speaker:up and compound over time.
Speaker:And so that was really it.
Speaker:Um, it just took a lot of effort and, you
Speaker:know, I, I thought I knew the problem.
Speaker:I, I love sports.
Speaker:I've been in the sports space, uh, before.
Speaker:I, I've, I've worked at different like
Speaker:sports blogs and, and all that fun stuff.
Speaker:And I thought I knew the problem,
Speaker:and the fact of the matter was
Speaker:that I didn't know the problem.
Speaker:And so I think that's a big thing as well
Speaker:as, you've got to be so fiercely close to
Speaker:what the problem is and truly understand
Speaker:why that's a problem, or surround yourself
Speaker:with people that do understand that.
Speaker:Because without that you'll never know
Speaker:what the secret is to acquiring people.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:No, that's great.
Speaker:That's a great takeaway too, I think
Speaker:it's like the product market fit.
Speaker:Um, if there isn't a fit for it and
Speaker:you don't understand how to speak
Speaker:to these customers and what is
Speaker:going to make them move, then you're
Speaker:like marketing to nothing, right?
Speaker:It's like you're just putting words
Speaker:out to take up space, but yeah,
Speaker:at the end of the day, it's like
Speaker:standing up a new, even us, right?
Speaker:Like, so right now we're, um, standing up
Speaker:marketing and, to a new persona, um, that
Speaker:we've never actively gone after before.
Speaker:So we are essentially trying to
Speaker:recreate that flywheel or like that
Speaker:startup within a startup kind of mode.
Speaker:And it's like starting
Speaker:from scratch, right?
Speaker:We don't, we don't know these people
Speaker:and we don't know their pain points as
Speaker:well as we know the other pain points
Speaker:that we've been marketing to for years.
Speaker:Um, and so we're doing that
Speaker:same, that same process, right?
Speaker:Of just trying to like get in
Speaker:their mindset, take a day in their
Speaker:shoes, figure out what their real
Speaker:pain point is, um, so that we can
Speaker:build a product that solves for it.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:So let's talk about this though.
Speaker:There's the first 100 sign-ups,
Speaker:what about the first thousand?
Speaker:Like, I know that y'all just met this
Speaker:crazy goal of reaching 1000 signups
Speaker:in 30 days and I think you beat it?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:We ended up beating it by a week.
Speaker:[laughs] Um, and that was actually really
Speaker:crazy 'cause the reason I set that goal
Speaker:was not necessarily thinking that we were
Speaker:gonna reach 1000, uh, users to sign up.
Speaker:It was more so, uh, hey, if we set a goal
Speaker:for 1000 and we land at like 750, that
Speaker:would be still really sweet and awesome.
Speaker:[laughs].
Speaker:Uh, so that was kind of
Speaker:the reasoning behind it.
Speaker:Um, but it really pushed us, uh, to,
Speaker:to go after users and, and really
Speaker:be focused on user acquisition.
Speaker:Um, and I think one thing that's always
Speaker:been big for me is h- how do I get other
Speaker:people to, to want to refer and sign up?
Speaker:And, and what's the incentive that can be
Speaker:put out there, uh, for people to sign up?
Speaker:A- and so for that, you know, we
Speaker:work with a lot of influencers, um,
Speaker:in the business space, like business
Speaker:creators, uh, people on LinkedIn with
Speaker:big audiences and, and things like that.
Speaker:Um, and really just trying
Speaker:[laughs] and digging up any
Speaker:possible thing that we can do.
Speaker:We ran another giveaway, um,
Speaker:for, uh, CopyAI, which was a tool
Speaker:that other marketers use as well.
Speaker:And so we really wanted to focus
Speaker:in on a specific niche, 'cause
Speaker:I knew there was enough in that
Speaker:niche, uh, to fill that goal.
Speaker:Um, and just really trying everything
Speaker:we possibly can to get there.
Speaker:And so you talk about influencers and
Speaker:I think like influencer marketing and
Speaker:B2B is going to become a more common
Speaker:thing, but I do definitely think
Speaker:y'all are on the front end of that.
Speaker:What, what does that look like?
Speaker:Standing up an influencer program?
Speaker:Like how many, you know, how do you
Speaker:identify who you wanna work with?
Speaker:How do you approach the conversation?
Speaker:Um, get people interested and like bought
Speaker:in to helping you, you know, disseminate
Speaker:your, your product to the market.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I think it really starts by having a close
Speaker:relationship with those people, um, and
Speaker:opening up those conversation channels.
Speaker:And I kinda see it as a way to
Speaker:continue to not just earn media today,
Speaker:but media in the future, as well as
Speaker:you're building up that relationship.
Speaker:And those people don't just become your
Speaker:users, but they become your friends or
Speaker:people that you can rely on and trust.
Speaker:And so part of that, I think it starts
Speaker:by, you know, just working on and first of
Speaker:all, identifying who those people are, um-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... figure out what niche you're
Speaker:going for and then try and figure
Speaker:out players within that space.
Speaker:Um, if you don't know who those
Speaker:people are right now, um, I know
Speaker:there's a lot of tools out there for
Speaker:identifying people with large audiences.
Speaker:So figure out what that niche looks
Speaker:like, and then just really engage
Speaker:with their, their content first.
Speaker:I think that's the biggest thing
Speaker:not a lot of people, um, think of.
Speaker:It's not just, "Hey, let me pay you
Speaker:like $100 to go post this thing."
Speaker:Um, that's definitely not how it works.
Speaker:You can try that, but I promise you, you
Speaker:probably won't get very good results-
Speaker:[laughs].
Speaker:... uh, versus the other way.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Um, and so I really think that's
Speaker:what's the, the big piece over
Speaker:there is engaging with those people.
Speaker:And then once you've sort of, uh, uh,
Speaker:built that rapport with them, that
Speaker:they're seeing you and, and trust me
Speaker:every, every single creator, um, for
Speaker:the most part, like for people that
Speaker:have like under 50,000 followers,
Speaker:they're definitely seeing you.
Speaker:I know because I've tried this myself.
Speaker:Um, and if you're engaging with someone's
Speaker:content regularly, they're going to see
Speaker:you, they're going to know who you are.
Speaker:And, and that sounds kinda crazy
Speaker:because you're like this person
Speaker:has like tons of followers.
Speaker:Like they probably don't even see me.
Speaker:But I, I promise you, they are seeing
Speaker:you for those, uh, accounts that
Speaker:are probably like 50,000 or less.
Speaker:And so as you're engaging, a- and once
Speaker:you get to a certain point where, you
Speaker:know, you've provided a lot of value to
Speaker:them and you are providing value because
Speaker:by engaging, you're boosting their
Speaker:content, uh, feel free to, to reach out
Speaker:and open those lines of communication.
Speaker:Um, you know, if it doesn't work
Speaker:out, it doesn't work out, but the
Speaker:worst thing they can say is no.
Speaker:And, and as you kind of start to open
Speaker:up those lines of communication, you
Speaker:can mention, "Hey, I have this product.
Speaker:Like, I would love to, to
Speaker:show you what I'm working on."
Speaker:Um, and things like that, and
Speaker:just get your perspective on it.
Speaker:I think one other thing that, uh, a
Speaker:lot of people don't always understand
Speaker:is figuring out what's the value
Speaker:exchange that makes the most sense.
Speaker:Um, so for us-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... uh, Swpely is a free tool.
Speaker:So obviously we don't have, I
Speaker:can't say like, "Hey, we're gonna
Speaker:offer you like 100 bucks off."
Speaker:But a lot of SaaS products do have the
Speaker:ability to, to do some of that stuff and,
Speaker:and leverage that, and I think that's
Speaker:a great tool to leverage for yourself.
Speaker:And so if you're able to, to offer that
Speaker:value to that person and really lead
Speaker:with value, or, or maybe it's access to
Speaker:something that other users aren't getting
Speaker:yet, um, or whatever that is, uh, a-
Speaker:and really opening up that conversation,
Speaker:and, and let them go and try it on
Speaker:their own, um, and see how they like it.
Speaker:Um, and, you know, as conversations
Speaker:continue to progress, uh, you know,
Speaker:figure out what that agreement
Speaker:looks like that's going to benefit
Speaker:mutual value from both sides.
Speaker:Um, and the best tip that I'll leave
Speaker:off with too for that is, whenever
Speaker:it's time for them to, to post, um,
Speaker:or you're asking them to post or, or
Speaker:helping you out in that sense, don't put
Speaker:parameters around the content itself.
Speaker:You have to let them really run with it
Speaker:because they know what kind of content
Speaker:best resonates with their audience.
Speaker:Um, and so you really have to, to let them
Speaker:figure out how can they spin your tool or
Speaker:spin your product to fit their audience.
Speaker:Yeah, absolutely right.
Speaker:And I think like, so you go into this
Speaker:almost like completely open-ended, right?
Speaker:Where you're just like, "Hey, this, this
Speaker:week or whatever, we're launching this
Speaker:new feature or something, like we'd love
Speaker:for you to post," and leave it at that?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So it's really, I just am
Speaker:very open with sharing.
Speaker:So I think it's also important for
Speaker:someone to be that person at any company,
Speaker:um, have that one person that's going
Speaker:to be active and sharing, um, content.
Speaker:And that can be the person that can
Speaker:kinda open up those lines as well.
Speaker:Um, and it's really kind of like, we, we
Speaker:work on it in a couple of different ways.
Speaker:Uh, so for us, we actually have,
Speaker:that's one thing I can't share is
Speaker:a certain like value exchange, um-
Speaker:[laughs] Yeah.
Speaker:... for, for the company, um, in
Speaker:terms of like, 'cause obviously
Speaker:we're giving away a free tool.
Speaker:Um, so-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... we have certain things that we
Speaker:give away, uh, with influencers,
Speaker:for us to make up for the fact
Speaker:that, you know, our product's free.
Speaker:Um, but for other people, I think
Speaker:it's really just figuring out what
Speaker:that value exchange looks like.
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:Um, and, and going ahead and doing that.
Speaker:Um, and for us, like, like I
Speaker:said, we don't have any really
Speaker:parameters for, for posting.
Speaker:Um, and you know, as long as you're
Speaker:going to the right creators, people that
Speaker:would probably fit your target persona,
Speaker:that's the best thing you can do.
Speaker:Because if you built a pretty solid
Speaker:product, chances are they'll use it.
Speaker:And if they are getting something for
Speaker:free or discounted versus what other
Speaker:people are paying for, they'll be
Speaker:probably more excited about it [laughs].
Speaker:It's, it's brilliant, and I think
Speaker:that like, like I said, I think B2B
Speaker:influencers or brand founders or
Speaker:whatever we're gonna call it, um, will
Speaker:be more common in the next coming years.
Speaker:But like, I just think people haven't
Speaker:really jumped on that train yet.
Speaker:I assume that people are probably going
Speaker:out to try and, you know, get these
Speaker:influencers in the way that you're
Speaker:saying don't do it, uh, like, you
Speaker:know, with a very sales-esque mindset
Speaker:of like, it's very like transactional.
Speaker:And at the end of the day, like you
Speaker:just have to think that these are people
Speaker:too that will be promoting your brand
Speaker:on their own brand, you know, like
Speaker:on top of their own personal profile.
Speaker:And so trying to treat it as though
Speaker:it were a transactional like sales
Speaker:engagement just will not be as
Speaker:effective as if you're really trying
Speaker:to create an actual relationship, like
Speaker:a long-term relationship with these
Speaker:people that you'd like to help promote
Speaker:your brand or your product or whatever
Speaker:it is you're putting out to market.
Speaker:Yeah, totally.
Speaker:And, you know, I think it
Speaker:connects back to even whoever
Speaker:your users and real customers are.
Speaker:I'm very much-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... of the mindset and I always tell other
Speaker:people that I come across, when you're
Speaker:acquiring customers or users, or even
Speaker:like these influencers, think of every
Speaker:single person as an opportunity for this
Speaker:person to become a super fan of your
Speaker:product or whatever you're delivering.
Speaker:Um, and really turn them to someone
Speaker:that can really share your product.
Speaker:You know, even if they have only
Speaker:five people in their network, cool.
Speaker:That's five more people that
Speaker:you can bring into your product.
Speaker:If they have 10 people, that's 10 people.
Speaker:If they have 1000, that's
Speaker:awesome, that's 1000 people.
Speaker:But every single person, regardless
Speaker:of how big or how small their audience
Speaker:should be, you should be working to
Speaker:create them and turn them into super fans.
Speaker:So that way, you know,
Speaker:it's not transactional.
Speaker:Just because you're working with
Speaker:an influencer doesn't mean that's
Speaker:where you draw the line between
Speaker:not making it tra- transactional.
Speaker:I think that should be the
Speaker:case for every single user or
Speaker:customer that's brought on board.
Speaker:Yeah, no, that's a g- that's
Speaker:a really great point too.
Speaker:And I think that a lot of that focus
Speaker:at scale just gets lost in translation.
Speaker:Um, but ultimately like regardless of
Speaker:scale, like even if you're, you know,
Speaker:a one person startup or 1000 person
Speaker:company, um, that's the goal for everyone.
Speaker:And I think at some point it just,
Speaker:uh, it shifts or gets like muddied.
Speaker:Um, but no, that's a,
Speaker:that's a great point.
Speaker:Um, okay.
Speaker:So we've talked about some of these
Speaker:non-standard marketing tactics
Speaker:that you've tried in terms of, um,
Speaker:giveaways to like DGMG and, um,
Speaker:Copy.ai partnerships and influencers.
Speaker:But I think there's some other things too
Speaker:that you mentioned last time we chatted,
Speaker:that I'd love to kind of get an update on.
Speaker:I know that season passes was one
Speaker:of them, and that might not be what
Speaker:you're calling it, [laughs] but I think
Speaker:it was like sometimes season pass.
Speaker:Can you tell us what that is,
Speaker:a little bit more about it?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So since Swpely is free, obviously we
Speaker:don't generate any revenue, um, which is-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... the best part of running a business.
Speaker:It's, uh-
Speaker:[laughs].
Speaker:... definitely the way that
Speaker:most businesses run.
Speaker:Um, obviously I'm joking, but-
Speaker:Yeah [laughs].
Speaker:... um, so for us, you know, we wanted to drum
Speaker:up a little bit of revenue, um, as well.
Speaker:And I think this really speaks more
Speaker:towards like building a brand versus
Speaker:just, um, you know, having a single
Speaker:product or whatever your product is.
Speaker:You know, if you're selling-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... video meetings, like you don't
Speaker:just have to sell video meetings.
Speaker:Um, so for us, one of the things that
Speaker:we did was this Swpely season pass.
Speaker:So we just basically set
Speaker:up an Eventbrite event.
Speaker:Um, I gotta shout out to, um, Twitter
Speaker:for this one, 'cause I got this
Speaker:suggestion from here from someone else.
Speaker:Um, but we set up an Eventbrite and
Speaker:basically sold tickets to teach people
Speaker:how we got to 1000 users in 23 days.
Speaker:And we also shared, you know,
Speaker:um, what we're using for our tech
Speaker:stack and what we used to build
Speaker:the business at the beginning.
Speaker:Um, and like how we're spending
Speaker:less than 150 bucks a month as a
Speaker:business, and kind of like how we
Speaker:think about some different problems.
Speaker:And so we sold some tickets for that.
Speaker:Um, and I'm super, I, I love doing low,
Speaker:low effort tasks that are high reward.
Speaker:And so this was one of those.
Speaker:Um, you know, I didn't spend a ton
Speaker:of time marketing this thing out.
Speaker:Um, I didn't spend a ton of time
Speaker:putting together this crazy like
Speaker:presentation or, or thing for it.
Speaker:Um, I'm very much of maximizing things.
Speaker:So what we did, so we
Speaker:sold tickets for that.
Speaker:Um, we had three different
Speaker:tiers that we set up.
Speaker:Uh, one of them was just the event,
Speaker:one of them was the event plus a Q&A
Speaker:after the event, um, and the other
Speaker:like included 30 minutes one-on-one
Speaker:with me, uh, to chat about whatever.
Speaker:Uh, and so we sold that and then what
Speaker:we did too to generate some more revenue
Speaker:for us, is we actually took the video
Speaker:recordings and like I made a small PDF
Speaker:for each session, and we repackaged that
Speaker:and sold it on Gumroad, um, to get some
Speaker:more extra money as well for the business.
Speaker:And so just some kind
Speaker:of fun plays like that.
Speaker:I'm very much of a believer
Speaker:that you don't have to just give
Speaker:away all your value for free.
Speaker:I mean, that's a great way to bring
Speaker:people in, but if you have value,
Speaker:people will pay for that stuff.
Speaker:Another play that I actually really
Speaker:liked that we hadn't worked on yet,
Speaker:um, is at some point, maybe towards
Speaker:the end of this year, Q3, Q4, uh,
Speaker:we're planning on opening up an
Speaker:e-commerce store for Swpely merch.
Speaker:Um, so just another way.
Speaker:I know a lot of businesses give
Speaker:away free product, uh, but the cool
Speaker:thing about opening up an e-commerce
Speaker:store and doing this, I think fast
Speaker:is a great example, actually, um, of
Speaker:a brand that [crosstalk 00:23:28].
Speaker:I was gonna say, or Lessonly.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Lessonly is also doing a really great job.
Speaker:I think it's like Ollie Llama Co.
Speaker:or something.
Speaker:But it's really great merch, right?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It's, we, and hey, here's
Speaker:the thing about that merch.
Speaker:Like not only, first of all,
Speaker:you're not losing money on it
Speaker:because you're not giving it away.
Speaker:[laughs].
Speaker:Um, you're generating revenue and
Speaker:those people that purchased are
Speaker:gonna be way more likely to be
Speaker:connected to your brand because they
Speaker:actually spent money on something.
Speaker:Like who's gonna throw away, uh, a
Speaker:hoodie if you spent like 40 bucks on it?
Speaker:Like maybe you'll toss it out in
Speaker:like a few years or whatever, but
Speaker:like, you're not gonna toss that
Speaker:away like the next day, or it's not
Speaker:just gonna be sitting in your closet.
Speaker:Like if you paid 40 bucks for that, 50
Speaker:bucks for that, you're probably gonna
Speaker:wear it a few times and, and get some use.
Speaker:So those are some things that
Speaker:I kind of consider for a brand.
Speaker:Like there's, there's a lot of
Speaker:different things that you can
Speaker:do, a lot of fun things to do.
Speaker:Um, and I just don't like to limit
Speaker:to what the main product on offer is.
Speaker:Yeah, no, exactly.
Speaker:And I think that's what's going
Speaker:to differentiate you in the
Speaker:market, um, or any like tech
Speaker:company in the market, right?
Speaker:That's doing things that are outside
Speaker:of this traditional mold that B2B
Speaker:has kind of like put themselves in.
Speaker:Um, and even like going back to the,
Speaker:um, hoodie conversation, like I have
Speaker:a Llama, or I think it's Ollie Llama.
Speaker:I'll have to look it up after
Speaker:this, but, um, I know it's
Speaker:Lessonly, that's the point.
Speaker:Anyways, I have one, a
Speaker:pullover, it's like really nice.
Speaker:And every time I've worn it, which
Speaker:has been maybe five times, someone
Speaker:has asked me like, "Oh, what is that?"
Speaker:So it's a great conversation piece
Speaker:too, because every time I'm like,
Speaker:"Oh, it's this great tech company,
Speaker:ta da da, it's actually Lessonly,
Speaker:it has nothing to do with hoodies."
Speaker:It's just like a really-
Speaker:[laughs].
Speaker:... natural conversation.
Speaker:And so it's a good, um, it's
Speaker:a good conversation starter
Speaker:and a great brand piece.
Speaker:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker:And they're making money for that.
Speaker:So that's awesome.
Speaker:They get to-
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And especially you guys, right?
Speaker:... [laughs].
Speaker:An extra revenue stream,
Speaker:you're like, "I'm here for it."
Speaker:We've also got some, uh, fun NFT stuff
Speaker:signed up, uh, ideas too, but I'll, I'll
Speaker:save that for maybe another discussion.
Speaker:All that I know about NFTs are that we
Speaker:just did our first NFT a few weeks ago.
Speaker:And by our, I mean, I cannot
Speaker:take credit for any of this.
Speaker:Um, Nolan is our video guy, but
Speaker:we all wear tons of random hats.
Speaker:So somebody, one of the sales guys, Kyle
Speaker:Willis, he's actually a sales guy over
Speaker:at ZoomInfo, put up a really funny GIF
Speaker:of him dancing on, for closing a big
Speaker:deal, um, for the last day of the month.
Speaker:And we turned his dance into an NFT.
Speaker:I can't take credit for that at
Speaker:all, but it was really, it was
Speaker:really entertaining to make.
Speaker:Um, he of course loved it and
Speaker:then we got tons of like great
Speaker:coverage for it on LinkedIn.
Speaker:So no, I would love to know
Speaker:what your thoughts are [laughs].
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That's super sweet.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:We're thinking about, uh, doing some like
Speaker:Swpely trading cards for some early users.
Speaker:Um, and the thought behind that is that
Speaker:hopefully in the next, you know, five
Speaker:to 10 years when Swpely's a much bigger
Speaker:company, um, it would be cool to have one
Speaker:of those like first edition trading cards
Speaker:from back when the company just started.
Speaker:I love that so much.
Speaker:Okay, cool.
Speaker:Um, do you have other thoughts
Speaker:while we're on this topic
Speaker:outside of, um, trading cards?
Speaker:[laughs]
Speaker:Uh, yeah.
Speaker:I don't know.
Speaker:I mean, I honestly come up with
Speaker:[laughs] weird revenue stream
Speaker:ideas, like all the time.
Speaker:Like I even like, like Swpely is
Speaker:like, obviously, like our core
Speaker:product is a tool for like content
Speaker:saving and content sharing.
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:But I kinda consider Swpely as more
Speaker:of like a very, not just a one size
Speaker:fits all like tech company, so like
Speaker:if we have an idea for like a business
Speaker:and the way I kinda see revenue,
Speaker:um, is just like a means, like a
Speaker:mechanism for us to be able to grow.
Speaker:It's not just, uh, you know, hey,
Speaker:we need to keep generating X amount
Speaker:of dollars from here and continue
Speaker:to keep scaling and stuff like that.
Speaker:Like, there's gonna be points in our
Speaker:business, uh, that we'll hit like blocks
Speaker:where, you know, either we've hit a block
Speaker:on how much of the market we can, uh,
Speaker:capture in a certain niche or vertical
Speaker:or whatever, um, and that's gonna happen.
Speaker:And so for us, I kinda just
Speaker:consider that as an opportunity.
Speaker:Hey, we're just gonna start building
Speaker:some other blocks over here.
Speaker:Maybe we wanna start this other like,
Speaker:uh, product that maybe only generates
Speaker:10K a month or something like that.
Speaker:Um, and you know, that's not a lot
Speaker:of money, but you know, if we're
Speaker:able to generate a return on our
Speaker:investment for whatever we spend to
Speaker:build something like that, 10K a month
Speaker:is maybe one or two people's salary.
Speaker:Um, and so-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... that's kinda how I think about revenue
Speaker:is, you know, it's just really,
Speaker:uh, a means for us to continue to
Speaker:build and scale and acquire more
Speaker:and more dollars for the business.
Speaker:And so what you'll probably see at some
Speaker:point, you know, as, as long as things
Speaker:that's likely go smooth, which they have
Speaker:so far, uh, we'll come out with other cool
Speaker:products and, you know, we're not looking
Speaker:to, to scale to like every product to like
Speaker:hundreds of thousands, millions of users.
Speaker:Uh, but hey, if we get like 5,000 people
Speaker:using a product and they're paying maybe
Speaker:like 10 bucks a month, uh, that could
Speaker:be 50K MRR, um, and pay for a lot of
Speaker:people's salaries and stuff like that,
Speaker:or even like a company trip [laughs].
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Or even a really cool company trip.
Speaker:But like when you take a step back and you
Speaker:think about your like product roadmap, or
Speaker:even your planning, I realize y'all are
Speaker:still early stages, but are you thinking
Speaker:about things in terms of like six months
Speaker:sprints or even quarter-long sprints?
Speaker:Or are you just kind of opportunistic in
Speaker:terms of like what comes next for Swpely?
Speaker:Yeah, I think it's more so
Speaker:having an opportunistic mindset
Speaker:and that's the case right now.
Speaker:'Cause you know, we're still
Speaker:early, things are gonna change,
Speaker:the market's gonna change.
Speaker:And, um, we've only
Speaker:been around for so long.
Speaker:So I have to consistently like adapt,
Speaker:and plus, I don't have the bandwidth
Speaker:to, to go and spend like a whole day
Speaker:like planning out our entire plan
Speaker:for, for six months or whatever.
Speaker:And so we're very much of like fast
Speaker:moving and, and I love doing that stuff.
Speaker:I think, uh, you have to sort of have
Speaker:an opportunity in your business to be
Speaker:agile and be able to, to jump on a trend.
Speaker:You can't be so inflexible to say like,
Speaker:"Oh, hey, this cool new thing came out
Speaker:and yeah, we're not gonna do it because
Speaker:we already have our plan in place."
Speaker:Um, and I think that's
Speaker:really not the best approach.
Speaker:Um, and so for us, like, uh, I, I just
Speaker:leave, love moving as fast as I can.
Speaker:Um, and I also don't like limiting
Speaker:what our potential can be.
Speaker:Um, and so I find plans to sometimes
Speaker:be limiting where you're like-
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:... "Hey, oh yeah, we're gonna get
Speaker:this done in like three months."
Speaker:So, okay.
Speaker:So that means, you know, you might
Speaker:spend a month not really doing
Speaker:very much, because that might be
Speaker:a task that takes like two months.
Speaker:Um, and so for us, I'm constantly
Speaker:just getting us as fast as we can go.
Speaker:Uh, and sometimes that still means
Speaker:we're gonna have slow periods, um,
Speaker:and we'll have fast periods as well.
Speaker:Um, but the goal is to, to really just
Speaker:move fast and not let time, um, manage us.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:So speaking of managing time, you in this
Speaker:role are clearly wearing a ton of hats.
Speaker:And I feel like most marketers are
Speaker:also wearing tons of hats, even
Speaker:if they aren't a founder or CEO
Speaker:[laughs] of a current company.
Speaker:Um, how do you manage, like what
Speaker:tactically do you do to manage the
Speaker:micro hats that you have to wear in
Speaker:terms of like execution and day-to-day
Speaker:grind, on top of the macro hats of like
Speaker:the business, the vision, projections
Speaker:for your company at the same time?
Speaker:Like what does that look like daily?
Speaker:Or maybe start high level and then
Speaker:go daily, but I'm super interested
Speaker:to know how you balance both.
Speaker:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker:I like to, I probably split my days
Speaker:more on like a day-to-day basis.
Speaker:Um, so I have like high-level plans
Speaker:and every time I have a high level
Speaker:plan, um, which like pops into my
Speaker:head, I'll, I'll usually write it
Speaker:down and then I'll collect those ideas
Speaker:on maybe like a day on the weekend
Speaker:or something like that and organize
Speaker:what that longterm vision looks like.
Speaker:But in terms of day-to-day execution,
Speaker:um, I usually like during the
Speaker:daytime, I will spend a lot of
Speaker:time, uh, you know, interacting with
Speaker:our, our users or my audience that
Speaker:I've built up and things like that.
Speaker:And then I'll usually save my
Speaker:evenings for like deep work and,
Speaker:and getting that stuff done.
Speaker:Um, I think what's really important
Speaker:too is not everything has to
Speaker:be going on at the same time.
Speaker:Um, and I think that's where, uh,
Speaker:that can trip up a lot of people.
Speaker:Like you don't have to be checking
Speaker:this stat like every single day,
Speaker:like, um, or things like that.
Speaker:And so that's what I focus on is,
Speaker:you know, some things I'll just leave
Speaker:be and I'll say, "Hey, I'll come
Speaker:back and check on this in two days
Speaker:and, and we'll see where it's at."
Speaker:Uh, but you have to have those
Speaker:moments where you step into deep work.
Speaker:Um, and so I usually get
Speaker:mine done in the evening.
Speaker:Um, obviously my schedule is very
Speaker:different than most people because,
Speaker:uh, for most people and as they should,
Speaker:you know, you shouldn't have to be
Speaker:working at a job like 18 hours a day.
Speaker:You should be working for, you know,
Speaker:X amount of hours and then have a
Speaker:personal life and do all that stuff.
Speaker:I'm a founder.
Speaker:So, um, first of all, I'm really
Speaker:passionate about what I do and second of
Speaker:all, um, I need to keep working because
Speaker:otherwise I can't grow my business.
Speaker:It's like the hardest part
Speaker:is going from zero to one.
Speaker:Um-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... but yeah, that's kind of
Speaker:how I, I manage my day.
Speaker:Um, you know, during the, the
Speaker:mornings, uh, I will, you know, be
Speaker:engaging with my audience, uh, working
Speaker:on some smaller tasks that really
Speaker:don't require that much brain power.
Speaker:And then at a certain point, I'll kind
Speaker:of switch into deep work where I'll
Speaker:shut off like communication and stuff
Speaker:like that and, and really just dive
Speaker:into, uh, a couple of tasks at hand.
Speaker:I always like to, to focus on
Speaker:like, um, you know, I set two to
Speaker:three very high level deep tasks
Speaker:that I wanna get done every day.
Speaker:Um, whether it's like implementing
Speaker:something or spending some time
Speaker:like analyzing data that we have.
Speaker:Uh, and so that's kinda what I do
Speaker:in, and once I have those three
Speaker:wins off my checklist, um, that's
Speaker:kinda like my, my day is complete.
Speaker:Nice, I like that.
Speaker:And are you managing your deep
Speaker:tasks or like daily to do's in
Speaker:like a spreadsheet or in your head?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Uh, I use probably, uh, notes for that.
Speaker:So I have like, uh, a
Speaker:little like journal or-
Speaker:Love it.
Speaker:... whatever you want to call it, um,
Speaker:to write down some of that stuff.
Speaker:Oh, it's called notes [laughs].
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So, and I'm, I'm actually, I'm exc-
Speaker:I'm super excited once we start
Speaker:getting, uh, some other features
Speaker:for note taking up in Swpely.
Speaker:That's gonna be, so I'll probably move it-
Speaker:Oh.
Speaker:... back into there.
Speaker:Um, but for right now, that's what I do.
Speaker:I also try and do, um, a lot
Speaker:of time blocking as well.
Speaker:I'm, I'm not the best at it, but I'm, I'm
Speaker:trying to get better, 1% better every day.
Speaker:Um, but that's been really helpful to at
Speaker:least kinda like visualize what are those
Speaker:tasks at hand that I need to complete?
Speaker:Yeah, no, I think that's incredible.
Speaker:Time blocking for me is like my saving
Speaker:grace, because I feel like I, um, never
Speaker:say no, it's very hard for me to say no.
Speaker:So I just constantly accept new
Speaker:requests to do new things all the time.
Speaker:Time blocking has been great.
Speaker:We can like actually just like make
Speaker:the task as a time, a block of time
Speaker:on my calendar, and I know that if
Speaker:I don't have any blank spots, then
Speaker:that means I actually can't do it.
Speaker:And that is what I default, like
Speaker:default to when I have to say no.
Speaker:Like no, I literally can't do it because
Speaker:there isn't any free time on my calendar.
Speaker:Yeah, it's super hard [laughs].
Speaker:Um, which I wasn't good at before.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I wasn't good at it before, I'm
Speaker:still working on it now, like you
Speaker:said, like 1% better every day.
Speaker:It's hard for me to say no, because
Speaker:I'm like really excited about,
Speaker:like I love what I do for work.
Speaker:And so I really, I get really
Speaker:bought into it and I just want
Speaker:to do all things for all people.
Speaker:So like saying no and making the
Speaker:time is probably the hardest part.
Speaker:But calendar blocking does help.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It's super useful.
Speaker:One of the things that's really helped
Speaker:me, um, to get better at it is I always
Speaker:like to leave like, uh, like a 15 minute
Speaker:buffer after my task ends, or supposedly-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... supposed to end, because I often find
Speaker:myself like going down rabbit holes.
Speaker:And like, [laughs] if I don't leave that
Speaker:buffer, sometimes I'll get to the block
Speaker:and I'll be like, "Man, I really wanna
Speaker:spend a little bit more time on this."
Speaker:Um, so that kind of makes it a
Speaker:little bit easier to time block
Speaker:as well, so I can have that kind
Speaker:of like wind down period also.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Last question that I always like to
Speaker:ask guests when they come on, is who's
Speaker:another marketer or even founder in
Speaker:your case in the space that you are
Speaker:following that our audience should go
Speaker:follow, read their books, subscribe
Speaker:to them, whatever medium they're on.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Um, man there's so many good ones-
Speaker:[laughs].
Speaker:... to pick from.
Speaker:Uh, I'm gonna get a lot, I'm gonna get
Speaker:in a lot of trouble for the people that
Speaker:I don't end up picking since you're
Speaker:asking me to just pick one person.
Speaker:[laughs].
Speaker:Um, I think one person that's, uh,
Speaker:really been, uh, fun and interesting to
Speaker:follow, um, is probably Camille Trent.
Speaker:Um, she's actually one of the advisors
Speaker:for Swpely, uh, but she's probably like
Speaker:one of the best, uh, content writers,
Speaker:editorial directors that I know.
Speaker:I mean, uh, she works at MarketerHire.
Speaker:Some of the work that she does is like,
Speaker:um, I'm like, man, I wish I had, uh,
Speaker:the ability to do some of the stuff
Speaker:that, that she does in terms of writing.
Speaker:Um, and she's just a really great, um,
Speaker:marketer, um, just really gre- a great
Speaker:copywriter and an excellent marketer.
Speaker:So that's who I'll probably,
Speaker:uh, throw out for this.
Speaker:You should definitely talk to
Speaker:her, um, about convincing people
Speaker:and she's also grown her, uh,
Speaker:audience really, really fast.
Speaker:Oh, well.
Speaker:And she's primarily active on LinkedIn?
Speaker:Yeah, she is primarily active on LinkedIn.
Speaker:Perfect.
Speaker:No, that's incredible.
Speaker:I will go follow her for myself
Speaker:and then of course, anybody
Speaker:listening, go check her out as well.
Speaker:Um, for anybody that wants to keep
Speaker:up with you or follow along with
Speaker:you, uh, Twitter, LinkedIn, both?
Speaker:Uh, yeah, both is-
Speaker:[laughs].
Speaker:... what I'm on right now.
Speaker:Um, so if you want to connect with me on
Speaker:LinkedIn, uh, feel free to just Jay Desai,
Speaker:J-A-Y, uh, last name Desai, D-E-S-A-I.
Speaker:Uh, search it up.
Speaker:If you're connected with Kaylee,
Speaker:you'll probably be able to find me.
Speaker:Uh, and then on Twitter, I'm
Speaker:J-A-T, so at, um, and then Swpely.
Speaker:Uh, so I just recently actually changed
Speaker:that, but, uh, yeah, feel free to
Speaker:connect with me on Twitter or LinkedIn.
Speaker:Uh, I used to say that I respond
Speaker:back in the same day, but now
Speaker:it's probably like 48 hours.
Speaker:[laughs].
Speaker:But if you send me a message, you
Speaker:will hear back from me at some point.
Speaker:So feel free to reach out to me,
Speaker:I love connecting with people,
Speaker:I love talking with people.
Speaker:Um, and if you have any questions
Speaker:about anything we chatted
Speaker:about, uh, my DMs are open.
Speaker:Love it.
Speaker:Thank you so much for coming on the
Speaker:podcast and sharing your wisdom with us.
Speaker:I think it's just super
Speaker:intriguing, um, how you're going
Speaker:about building this product.
Speaker:And of course, like how I found out about
Speaker:you guys, obviously it's all working.
Speaker:I am always very influenced by, um,
Speaker:really out of the box marketing tactics.
Speaker:So when, um, I was kind of swarmed with
Speaker:all of the people that already know and
Speaker:love Swpely, I was very convinced myself.
Speaker:So hopefully others listening find
Speaker:this, um, insightful and can take some
Speaker:of these ideas around giveaways or
Speaker:influencers, um, and implement them
Speaker:into their own marketing strategies.
Speaker:So for anybody listening that
Speaker:found today's content helpful
Speaker:or valuable in any way, please
Speaker:make sure to leave us a review.
Speaker:It helps us continue to make valuable
Speaker:content like this and bring it your
