Sam Goulden is the founder of MNML Golf, a brand revolutionizing the golf bag industry with a focus on sustainability and community-building. In our conversation, we dive deep into his journey from teaching golf to launching a brand that emphasizes quality and environmental consciousness. Sam shares how his passion for the game and a desire to challenge the norm in golf equipment led to the creation of bags that not only look good but also last longer and reduce waste.

Throughout the episode, we explore key themes like the importance of craftsmanship in golf gear, the shift towards inclusivity in the sport, and how golf can foster a sense of community among players. Sam discusses his unique approach to bag design, including innovative features like magnetic closures and a focus on durable materials, which set Minimal apart in a crowded market. His insights into the evolving culture of golf highlight the blend of tradition and modernity that appeals to a new generation of golfers.

Join us as we unpack what it means to grow the game authentically and how Sam's commitment to quality and sustainability aligns with the greater goal of making golf accessible and enjoyable for everyone.

Sam Goulden: Building Community Through Golf and Innovation

Takeaways:

• Staying hydrated is key during long rounds to maintain energy and focus.
• The importance of a solid pre-shot routine to enhance performance and achieve flow state.
• Competitive golf requires mental preparedness and the right fuel to perform well under pressure.
• Maintaining golf bags sustainably can reduce environmental impact and promote responsible consumerism.
• Customization and personal touches on golf gear can create meaningful connections within the golfing community.
• Building a supportive golf community helps grow the game and enriches the experience for players of all levels.

The Golf Don't Live podcast is proudly brought to you by our friends over at firstform.

Different paths, different stories.

This, this, this game tells all.

Golf Don't Lie.

What's up, everybody?

Welcome to Golf Don't Lie.

Justin Bryant.

What's going on, brother?

Not much.

This weather now in St. Louis is feeling good and it makes me want to go out and play some golf.

I know it's been incredible.

I've actually been wearing a sweatshirt in the morning, taking the pup for a walk, and it was like a week ago, a week and a half ago, it was 99 degrees and a heat index of like 111.

So this is incredible.

It feels good.

Personally, I like it when it's hot, but it just feels good to walk out and feel that fall weather.

Well, just a couple weeks ago you were actually playing some tournament golf or qualifying golf that was in the super heat for the Mid AM ride.

Tell me a little bit about the Mid AM or the Mid M qualifier.

I should say.

Yeah, we had the mid end qualifier out at Dalhousie, which I feel like I love Dalhousie, but every time I've played there, it's like extreme heat.

I had a good tea time and I said, I think it was around 8 o', clock, but it got hot quick and was just, you couldn't, you know, shout out to Kurt at the Metropolitan.

He had a lot of water out there, but I was putting electrolytes in, you know, making sure I was getting enough fuel and eating and eating enough food.

And it was one of those rounds where not a lot was going right.

Just, you know, I felt like I was playing pretty well, but wasn't hitting it close enough and stayed patient.

We birdied three of the last four holes, I think, to get in at 3 under, and we waited about six hours and ended up in a playoff.

So it was a, it was a long day and it was thought a lot about, you know, you and some of the things you've talked about, just making sure you got the fuel because it was one of those days.

If you didn't, if you kind of ignored those electrolytes and fuel in your body, you weren't, you weren't going to make it out on the other end.

Six, six hour wait.

What did you do that whole time?

I, I relaxed for a little bit, caught up with some friends.

I honestly went to the store and got some more electrolytes because I ran out and trying to get some, get some protein in me, then got back to the course, like about And I think an hour and a half before I thought people would finish.

And I just was like, all right, I'm gonna warm up as if there's going to be a playoff and I'm gonna go through, like, my normal routine of I'm about to play 18 holes and just get the, like, in the mental mind state of that.

As we got towards the end, I was like, maybe we don't have to do a playoff.

And then the very last group, a guy came in, enforced the playoff.

So I think it was like a three, you know, four guys for three spots or something like that.

Maybe it was five for four, I can't remember.

But.

But mentally, mentally I was ready.

I was already warmed up.

I had, you know, gone through the routine.

We played the first playoff hole.

Dalhousie was a par 5.

Everyone had a great drive and everyone had good shots in there.

And so it's a reachable hole.

Brad Nurski, who's a great mid am amateur player, hit a great shot in there to, I think, you know, 10ft.

He made eagle and everyone else made birdie.

Then we went to the first playoff hole, and I was able to make par and get through after one of the guys made bogey.

So, yeah, the playoff, you kind of never know what to expect.

You're always trying to make birdie or eagle.

I figured if I made eagle on that first hole, it was going to at least not eliminate me.

So you never know what's going to happen.

I've been in playoffs and guys have holed out from the fairway.

I've been in playoffs and guys have made it, hit it out of bounds, and you get through with a par.

So you never know when it's a sudden death like that, what's going to happen.

I remember the.

The hole out playoff.

That was in the John Deere, right?

It was in the John Deere, yeah.

So it was.

You know, I never qualified for a PGA Tour event.

I think I shot like six under in the Monday, and it was like a.

It was a massive playoff.

It was like eight for one spot.

And I was.

We all hit our drives in this par 4.

Everyone had kind of hitting their iron shots into the green, but nobody, I don't think anyone had hit it within 15 or 20ft.

And that was the second to last guy to hit.

And I'm thinking, if I make bird here, I'm probably going to get through and somebody else is going to go.

So maybe it turns into a 2 for 1 playoff and I hit the perfect wedge shot.

Exactly.

Trajectory I was looking at, and it mine lips out.

So it hits lips out of the hole and is going to be a tap in.

And I'm kind of thinking about mentally, all right, somebody's going to drain a 20 footer and make birdie.

And the guy hits it like two yards in front of me and drains it.

And the place erupted.

He was a local kid, so his buddies were there, and it was a.

It was a very cool scene, but very surreal moment when you kind of see your dreams of playing a tour event just go.

Just vanish.

Very cool.

Just not as cool for you.

Yeah, yeah, I remember that.

That was.

That was heartbreaking for me to hear.

I think Kelly told me about that one when it happened.

So we got to play a little golf.

Recently.

We had our big Loop de Loo event here in St. Louis at our local Muni Ruth park, which is our Friday morning spot.

And I got to watch the game firsthand.

You and Jeremy, AKA Akshay Batia, just kind of tore it up out there, 16 under for a two man scramble.

Coming in as the gross winners.

That was.

That was a lot of fun to watch, man, your putting, I mean, you always hit the ball far.

You always hit the ball straight.

But watching you follow Jeremy and drain, pretty much every putt that you took a look at was.

Was pretty awesome.

The putter.

The putter was feeling good.

I mean, Ruth, first of all, was just in awesome shape.

I mean, those fairways were really good.

The greens were really good.

It's such a fun course to play, but, yeah, I think last year we shot.

I can't remember if it was like 11 or 13 under.

And so I kind of told Jeremy.

I was like, all right, got it.

We got to be.

We got to beat 13.

So I, I feel like 16 is going to be tough for us to beat next year.

I feel like we kind of got everything we had if it we could have.

But I think we birdied five twice again, which is, you know, that's just.

That's always one that you never know what can happen there.

But no, it was such a fun day.

We had a great group.

Six guys.

You and Ryan, you hit the ball well, but I got.

I got to give Ryan a shout out.

I was very impressed.

I hadn't played with him in a couple of years, and he's made some big improvements on his game.

I know he still plays the, you know, the, the cut or slice, as we'll say, but he, he plays it better and it's not.

It doesn't Curve as much as it used to.

Yeah, it's not as crazy as you.

Gotta, you just gotta give him a shout out.

He.

He hit it well and putted well too.

How about our, our par on the first hole though?

I think that's what I'm most proud of the entire day.

When Ryan didn't hit the banana ball and it went straight left and we were almost on eight green and had to.

That was the, that was the best start we've had to a LU so far.

Because usually, you know, we're running around getting the whole tournament set up and we get to the first tee box and it's like, oh my God, we got to swing a club now.

And, and usually we, you know, double or bogey the first hole and we came away with the par after hitting a ball two fairways away.

Almost onto the eighth green.

I'm just still seeing that one in my sleep.

Yeah, that was, that was awesome.

It was funny watching you guys.

You know, Jeremy and I were in the right rough and we look over and we're like, are Those guys on 8 green?

And you hit a beautiful shot over the trees right in the middle of the green and made it a, you know, stress, stress free par.

Yeah, it was, it was a lot of fun.

So yeah, obviously we've been saying this for years.

I need my boy JB to, to come help straighten me out with the game.

I had some good shots, had.

Had some bad shots.

But all in all, we need to dial some things in.

I've got a Ryder cup coming up soon.

We've got a guys trip coming up soon, so need a little help still.

Yeah.

You know what though, like I, I can tell you feel more confident out there.

The speed I know we have talked about and it just, it doesn't look as tentative as it used think is like step one, you know, like you look like you're trying to hit good shots out there, which, you know, we're playing a scramble so you can play a little bit looser.

But I feel good about your game, Jeff.

You're, you're, you're trending.

You got, you got your new equipment now we've gotten fit for a driver.

We got the putter.

We're.

We're going to get you there.

That's right.

And then we had the first Florin boys in our group, TJ and Cam.

Big shout out to them for hooking us up at the tournament.

Always hooking us up with tons of products.

The hydration stuff, the clear.

Did you taste the clear protein the limited stuff.

Yeah, that was pretty good, right?

Yeah.

For the golf bag for next time.

And then Jeremy and I actually yesterday were just talking about their.

Their protein sticks.

I forget what they call them, but those are really good, too.

I mean, perfect.

Encore snack.

Throw in the bag.

And those are really good.

Yeah, we just call them the meat sticks, but I think the official title is the.

They are protein steaks.

Okay, good.

Yeah, those are awesome.

Well, hey, we've got a great interview here.

Great guest, actually.

Guy that we both know personally, Sam Gulden from Minimal Golf, originally a St. Louis guy, now out in California.

I don't know if you know that much about their company, their bags, but Sam, it was cool to talk to him.

I spoke to him many times over the years and had him on the show a couple times.

But just to see the evolution of what they've been doing over at Minimal and to talk to him about, you know, what goes into really creating not just a bag, but a bag company and then what are the things that they're trying to do.

I wanted to ask you, like, when you're looking at a golf bag, since you play competitively, you walk a lot.

I know.

Sometimes you use a card, sometimes you don't.

What are you looking for in a competitive bag?

Because that's.

That's one of the big things that they're pushing is their new M Count bag.

And I know Sam said he wanted to make it for the high school golfer across the nation.

What would they want in their bag?

So what do you look for?

Yeah, that's.

That's awesome.

I haven't seen their newest one.

I do know Sam.

I've been out to one of their locations out in California, out in la.

Really cool.

Just like, if you're out there, just go check it out.

Really cool vibe.

I know you can be a member there and have benefits for their sim and stuff, but it's just.

It's a cool place to check in.

And there's a skate, skate ramp and games and simulators.

But no, their bags are.

Their bags are awesome.

I think just from like the plane standpoint, they have that cool pocket to be able to put your phone and record your video.

So I think from just like a playing standpoint, it's just such an easy thing to have.

And Sam's, like, obsession with detail.

The magnets are really good.

So, you know, you want something light, you want something that's going to last in kind of all the conditions.

Whether it's, you know, at this point in my life, I Don't love playing in the rain, but it happens, you know, and you want.

You want the equipment to not, like, deter you from that.

You want to make it as easy as you can in terms of.

Of that experience and your stuff not getting wet.

And so when.

When the elements are bad, you don't have to think about it.

But Sam really obsesses over the details, I feel like, and just really, really high quality bag.

Yeah.

And that facility they have out there, I haven't been there in person, but I've seen it online and talked to Sam a lot about it.

It's just so.

Sam too, right?

Like, he's just like skater vibe, surfer vibe, but he talked a lot about, you know, their.

Their mission with these bags, too.

As far as, first of all, giving back, but also being good for the environment.

I didn't really realize how important just the.

The durability of the bag was.

And some of the different features that they put on I thought were just to be cool.

Like the magnet pockets.

I mean, obviously they're for ease of use, but he kind of goes into detail that the.

The zippers are usually what breaks the most, and then people throw their bags away, and then that's, you know, they're just kind of wasting all this material and stuff.

So it was cool to hear him talk about what were the little mini changes that most of us probably don't really even think about.

But they've really, like you said, taken the time to put in the details and really thought through and then to go through the process of sourcing them, going through production materials and.

And all of the different challenges that come along with.

With making a bag.

I think we often see a company online and we think, oh, my gosh, they're killing it.

They're crushing it.

And Sam talks about some of the struggles that there have been with creating a brand from scratch and creating a product from scratch.

It's.

It's just cool to see especially St. Louis guy doing something cool like that in the world of golf.

Yeah, it's a really cool company.

And Sam's just a really good guy, too, so it's like he's easy to root for.

And then when it's a good product, it's kind of a.

It's kind of a home run.

So we like our St. Louis.

You know, we're St. Louis proud.

I know, as a community, so it's cool to see that, that's for sure.

All right, well, we'll let everybody get into our episode with Sam Goulden.

We'll catch up with you on the other side.

Sam Gulden from Minimal Golf.

What's up, my man?

Welcome to Golf don't lie.

Thank you, Jeff.

It's good to be on the show.

It's good to be a part of this new evolution of the podcast.

I'm kind of stoked to get into what it's all about and also just want to heads up, apologize for any ball strikes happening.

We're in the back of Minimal Golf Club right Now, so every 30ish seconds there's going to be a loud ball strike hitting a screen.

So apologies ahead of time.

Oh, all good, man.

Like I said before the show, like ball strikes in the background, people interrupting, whatever.

I mean, podcasts are podcasts.

So it's cool to see you just in your normal environment.

Tell us a little bit about the Minimal Golf Club.

So we, most people probably will have seen your bag if they've seen any of our videos.

They see me carrying one of your bags.

But yeah, tell us about the club.

Like what's going on there right now.

Yeah, we have three simulators kind of off to my left and like the front of the house is up there, but from the very front we've got, I'm drinking a cappuccino that I just made on a way through.

Expensive coffee machine, but a luxurious coffee machine.

But yeah, we've got a coffee bar up front.

We've got a skate ramp, a little mini ramp in the front of the shop, and then a bunch of really cool brands.

We just did a, a brand or a product launch for this company called Students Golf.

They're like kind of like they're gonna hate if I call them a hipster brand, but they're kind of like a new modern, cool golf brand.

Had a collection coming out, so got a bunch of their stuff in here.

Some other cool brands.

Rivia Projects, Devereaux.

Yeah, just try to keep some unique stuff in the front of the shop that's like, interesting to our members because as I said, we have these three golf simulators and the membership comes in like, you know, we've got a league and we've got guys coming in weekly or monthly to hit balls and hang out and try to have some gear in here for them.

And then we've got.

I still do a lot of teaching and club fitting, so I've got like a full Srixon kit and some Cleveland stuff and we sell the essentials.

Gloves, balls and some shoes, actually.

Really cool shoe.

We just did this product drop.

You probably haven't seen these Guys, I know we're both big fans of True Link Square, but these guys are making really cool shoes.

Seagrass.

We've just brought them in.

It's the first time we've had shoes in the store, which has been kind of cool.

But, yeah, shoes, clothes, golf, Got a pool table, mini ramp, dartboard.

We've got a fridge full of beer for the members.

We just got sponsored by Red Bull.

Sort of sponsored.

We, like, flagged down the car that goes by the front, and we were like, stop.

And then they were like, this is amazing.

How do we come in?

And we were like, you bring us Red Bulls, and we let you hit balls.

And so.

But, yeah, that's kind of the vibe in here.

It's.

We're open 11 every day, 11 till 9, and then weekends, 11 to 5.

And we do, like, private events and comedy shows, and.

I don't know.

It's cool.

This neighborhood is, like, kind of sleepy.

It's, like, not a ton of foot traffic.

There's a little bit of, like, car traffic, but we're pretty close to the beach, and it's.

Yeah, it's kind of a chill neighborhood, so it's kind of a fun place for people to just come and hang out, maybe golf, maybe catch some comedy, maybe have a good coffee.

That's the club, man.

You just described something that.

I think so many of us would love to come and hang out.

And I mean, first of all, it's so you.

I mean, for those of listening, Sam and I have known each other for quite a while.

Nine, ten, somewhere around in there.

But Sam was here in St. Louis.

Moved out.

Well, you've been.

You've been many places we could get into where some of the places you've been.

But, like, this.

This place sounds just so Sam Goulden to me.

And that's a.

That's a huge compliment, man.

Like.

Like just a place that is a chill vibe.

Not just all golf, but you've built a community, and you're building a community, not just a bag brand.

Right.

Like, minimal golf.

Yeah.

Has a whole feel to it.

What made you decide to open the actual club along with the.

The brand of the bags?

I mean, it's a bunch of just like, I really wasn't thinking, like, I want to own an indoor golf club.

It just fell together.

I had.

So when I started minimal, it was pretty bootstrapped.

We did a Kickstarter, raised enough money to order our first statement of bags.

And then I had a student who was, like, also Like, I got your back for whatever money you need.

So it was kind of like a little bit of money here and there, and then the Kickstarter and.

But, like, early days, we weren't making any money, and I needed, like, a place to do business, Needed a place for all the bags to come in and didn't really have any money.

So I rented this little studio in another little town up the coast, and it was 860 square feet, and I put a simulator there so that I could teach lessons.

And then I had a little desk, and then I had a bunch of golf bag boxes, like, filling up the whole space, and I. I would teach lessons.

Like, early days, it was kind of like, you know, teach enough lessons to keep the lights on in the studio.

And that was going really well.

And started creating, like, a little bit of a neighborhood vibe there.

People were coming by.

I was teaching, like, everybody in the neighborhood, and everybody was getting their minimal bags.

And then that building that I was in that I was paying rent in got bought, and they were like, you got six months to find a new place.

So I started looking, and I really did think, like, I. I had some experience with simulator places, and I think we all now know that, like, they can be a really cool thing.

And I was like, yeah, you know, if I.

If I put a couple more simulators in, we could create a little bit of a club.

I could still do some teaching.

People would have a place to go and hang out.

And so I just took that little thing that I had and was like, all right, I could go bigger.

I could go a little bigger.

And that takes up a ton of space.

I'm, like, surrounded by golf bags even now, but it does.

It takes up a bunch of space.

So when that place got bought, I started looking, and I found this building, this huge, empty space.

I don't know if you'll be able to see it here, but it's 100ft long.

It's like a shotgun shot between the simulators to the front door.

It's 100ft long and 40ft wide.

And originally, this building was the ice house for the South Bay.

So a train would come by this back door in the 30s, and they would take these huge chunks of ice, bring them in here, and then slide them up to the front, and trucks would come by, pick up the ice, and deliver it to all the houses in the South Bay.

How cool is that?

No way.

That's awesome.

It's why I'm wearing a jacket in July.

Like, somehow this place still has, like, ice.

Ice in its veins.

It's freezing back here.

But, yeah, it's just a really cool building, and it has a ton of room.

And I was like, okay, simulator here, simulator there.

And just started, like, thinking through what it could look like.

And.

And then, yeah, just.

I don't know, put in a simulator at a time.

And now we have three.

And put in the skate ramp, because I always wanted one as a kid.

And I'm just like, whatever.

I don't know.

And then you're right.

Yeah, it started becoming a community.

Like, all these people walking by started looking in, going, what is this place?

And it is really cool.

I mean, I think everybody's trying to make a community now in golf, and they should.

We should, because we all experienced Covid and we all lost that.

And so maybe we all realized that we needed or wanted.

And this has been a really cool evolution.

We now have another location in Pasadena that's also a really good vibe.

It's more like a.

It's two simulators, and it's kind of private.

Like, you can go in there with your buddies, grab a six pack, watch a baseball game, have the whole place yourself, basically.

But, yeah, these are cool, man.

These are.

These are a part of the golf space now.

Especially in, like, the more metropolis, you know, like the densely packed cities and stuff, they add another offering for golf.

So it's been cool.

Yeah, it seems like Covid just made everything so much different, and I think in so many great ways for golf, you know, it brought so many more people to it, and I think it brought a lot of different kinds of people, which brings different vibes, which golf, I think needed.

And there's been so much crossover into just society and culture, and all of a sudden, it's cool to play golf again.

Or cooler than it ever was.

Right.

Like, I think.

I think back to when I was in high school, and, I mean, golf was.

Was not a popular thing.

I know one guy from my high school that actually played golf, and now, you know, like, my son and his buddies, like, that's what they love to do.

And we don't belong to a club, you know, like, I didn't grow up at a country club.

My son's not growing up at a country club, but him and his buddies.

There's.

There's cool little public places.

There's driving ranges.

There's, you know, now the simulator places.

And it's it's just so much fun to see this younger generation and just the rules relax a little bit too, right?

Yeah, you're so right.

I mean, I. I'll send you the picture of my senior year high school golf photo.

It's me and like a white, you know, from Washington, Missouri.

Right.

And dude, it was not cool.

It was not cool.

And I wasn't really either because I was like trying to be a skateboarder in a small town in Missouri, but.

Or I wasn't cool there, but yeah, it's so cool now.

I mean, we're not.

Minimal's not really trying to be cool.

That's not really our thing.

But we're in that mix of all these new brands who see an opportunity to like, I don't know, just expand.

Like, what's out there.

Like Devereaux, that brand I was just mentioning earlier, like, they have some really cool designs, stuff that I wouldn't wear because I'm not that cool, but like some really cool designs.

And then, but they also have some really cool traditional designs.

Like the one that we have out in front is like a white, kind of off white polo, and then it has like a, a really dark hunter green and then like a, a mustard color on the collar.

It's almost like an old school Ashworth or something, you know, so there's like.

I think what's really cool now is that we're, we've had this, especially on the coast here, we've had this like, cool brand thing where it's like, let's be so different.

Let's bring style to golf.

Let's be unique.

But I think people, once they get into golf, they start realizing that, like, oh, this isn't just cool.

Like, there's a lot of really good tradition that we don't want to lose.

And so now I definitely feel like we're at this place five years post pandemic that like the cool kids or the cool brands are like actually falling in love with the game.

And they're like, I cut, like, the traditions of golf are kind of sick.

So we're starting to see them like, or more of the newer golfers honor those traditions.

And because.

And I think that's really cool because we, we don't need to like, golf is great already.

It needed some inclusivity, right?

It was, you know, gentleman's game forever, and we needed to kind of break down those walls a little bit.

But we don't want to lose what's so great about the game in the process.

But I think we're getting there.

I definitely feel it in design and stuff like that.

Yeah, there's so many.

So many great traditions, but also, like, even, you know, you look at the styles, you look at the different brands, and some of it is newer age, some of it is more.

More relaxed, wearing T shirts out on the course.

But then some of it's even going back further.

Vintage, almost like caddyshack era, you know, and kind of bringing some.

Some of those crazy styles back a little bit.

I was actually looking at.

Maybe it's on Grayson's website, and they've got some.

Some pretty wild designs in their shirts these days.

And then you got companies like, what is it?

Bad Birdie and like, all those.

And I can remember thinking and seeing, like, some older guys playing golf, and I remember talking to John Ashworth about this, actually, when I had him on the show a while back, how, like, golf almost gives you a little bit of a pass at wearing something really ridiculous.

That's a.

That's a great point.

Right?

But.

But there's, like, a balance between, like, ridiculous and still stylish.

And then there's, like, you know, John Daly ridiculous.

And I'm at the age now, I'm 47 years old, where I'm looking at some of these shirts.

I'm like, ooh, that's kind of.

I like that.

But then I'm like, wait, am I starting to be the old guy that just wears ridiculous stuff on the golf course?

Or.

Or is that this actually kind of cool and ridiculous?

So there's kind of that weird balance.

And I try to just ask my son and daughter, you know, like, okay, does this look stupid?

Is this too tight?

Is this too big?

And they get.

They kind of.

They kind of put me in my place.

I was.

I was at Crystal Springs Quarry when it was Crystal Springs Quarry.

Now it's the quarry.

It's Crystal Springs.

Right.

There was a guy who used to come in there, and he must have been, like, pretty wealthy or something.

And he.

So I was, like, serving hot dogs and range balls at Crystal Springs Quarry and just starting to do my coaching life, like, 22, 23 years old.

And this guy who used to come in there, I remember seeing him, and he was wearing, like, kind of tight jeans, and I was like, look at this guy.

Must be, like, almost 40, wearing these, like, stylish jeans, right?

And I think about that all the Time now I'm like, I'm 46, right?

We're like the same age.

So like I like wear a little bit baggier pants and I'm like, do young people look at me with that same, like, look at this old guy trying to be in style.

I feel you, dude.

I literally like try to just not do anything.

Like I, I barely, I wear shirts like in the shop that have been here for a while.

This is actually a pretty cool polo.

But I was like, oh, that's been on the rack for a while.

I'll just buy that in inventory.

And I try not to like do anything because I don't, I don't want to try to be cool and I don't think I could be even if I did try.

But I think I've seen some of your posts and I don't think you're.

I don't think you're an old guy crossing the line.

But I will say that Ashworth quote, so funny.

Like the.

In Puerto Rico where I was living for a while and been playing a lot of golf, dude, those golfers have style.

Like, those guys will rock the.

And they match.

Like, like father son teams.

Same shirt, same pants, same belt, same shoes.

Yeah.

Those guys take it to another level.

And in general, and I do think it's true, there is a little bit of like, you would never wear that to the mall or like the bowling alley.

Right?

Like anywhere.

But it's like this one little place where you can kind of be out there and still get away with it.

That's really funny.

He brought that up.

Yeah, yeah.

Because that became the.

And really that's what John was talking about is like, that's where his brand really started with Link Soul is like they wanted something that was totally the opposite of that.

Something that was cool that you could just wear casually, go to the bar, whatever, afterwards.

And that was kind of.

I think that's where a lot of these newer brands, newer in the last 10 years kind of started.

But then it started to kind of go.

Go a little wild again.

Well, even like that picture in your office, the Arnie, that outfit right behind you is like trending.

That's.

Yes, that's.

That's on fire right now.

One of the coolest photos of all time, in my opinion.

Very much agree.

Yeah, that was a sick era.

And we'll be right back.

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Okay, let's get back to the show.

So tell us a little bit about what's going on at Minimal itself because you guys just introduced your new bag, your M comp and kind of explained the difference between the two, which by the way, I love.

Do I.

Is the, the bag that I have, is that the Mr. 2 or is.

That you have one?

Yeah, Mr. 1 and Mr. 2 are really close.

Mr. 2 came out earlier this year and it's just some like little tidying up.

Like Mr.1 was a big improvement from MV2 and mainly like top handle stand mechanism is different, pockets are a little bit different configuration.

And then the material is 100% recycled material on Mr.1.

That was the changed from MV2 to Mr.1.

Now Mr.2 has like a little bit wider filming pocket, tour velour in the divider system, tour velour under the strap mechanism and an improved strap mechanism.

So for those who carry and walk, way better experience.

Like I didn't have a problem with Mr. 1, but when I tested the straps for Mr. 2, I was like, holy.

Like this is good.

And I, you know, like for those who don't know, I've walked like thousands of rounds.

Right.

Like, you know, I have.

And yeah, as a person who's designing a golf bag, like one of the most critical things for me is or the most critical Thing for me is that the product is like utilitarian.

You know, it does the job that it's meant to do.

We can't do anything innovative if it takes away from the utility.

And Mr. 2 is this very freaking good.

It's the most durable bag we've ever made.

It's the most performance bag we've ever made.

And it has the features that like kind of have made minimal, minimal, like 100 magnetic closures so you never have to worry about a broken zipper.

The solar power bank, so you can charge your phone if you run out of juice on the course.

You can add on the Bluetooth speaker, which is specifically designed for golf.

It's got a 10 hour battery life and a little bit less bass.

But like we're trading in the size of the speaker.

We're trading sound richness and bass for battery life, which, as you've experienced, your Bluetooth speaker is going to run out of batteries on the course at some point.

We all know that.

So the more battery we can get in that little package, the better.

It's because there have been so many times where I'm like, to my son or who I'm playing with, I'm like, oh, did you bring, did you bring a speaker?

I'm like, I don't know if mine didn't have any juice.

I haven't charged in a while and every time I still kick it on.

And it went the whole round on Sunday, Sunday morning.

It's like, dang, it's crazy how that battery is awesome.

I mean, but it's a different criteria, right?

Like when I was talking to, when we were developing that one that you have that bad, that speaker, it was like, it doesn't have to be loud.

It needs to last as long as possible.

And we're just, you know, if you're carrying, you don't need a really loud speaker.

You don't want a really loud speaker.

But anyway, yeah, so it has all those features and then, you know, some of the other ones, there's too many to list.

But all those innovative features, but still has and now has the best utility we've had in the bag.

That's Mr. 2.

And then M Comp is short for M Competition.

And I felt like for me, I wanted to design a bag that if a hundred.

I'm stealing this from.

From.

I heard this story happened at Titleist when they made their first carry bag.

They were like the CEO or the.

I think it was the new CEO at Titleist a bunch of years ago was like, we're getting into bags.

I want to be the bag that if every high school kid in the nation was lined up, I'd want them to pick our bag.

And I was like, ooh, that's a sick one.

I like that.

So that's what I was thinking about when designing mComp and thinking about myself as a high school player, thinking about myself as a college player and walking 36 holes and what do I need?

What don't I need?

And that's what M comp is.

It's.

It's a competitive player's bag, a walking player's bag.

It has a great top division.

Four way top.

The most space you can get in a top with still having some good division.

The whole top has been redesigned.

It's our top.

We made it for the first time ever.

Most people probably don't know that, like, most of the tops in the golf bet game are just open source sitting on shelves in China.

You just pick whatever one you want.

This one we made specifically, the legs are replaceable, which is like, now that we don't have zippers, since everything's magnetic, we don't have to worry about a broken zipper.

But the legs are the next thing that break on the golf bag, so the legs are replaceable in case they break.

We've got a great little, like, storage sleeve on the side for rain gear and yeah, really a good competitive player's bag.

And then lightweight, 4.25 pounds.

So very much light enough for any competitive player.

Is that the one you're hauling around these days?

If I ever played, Absolutely.

Yeah, for sure.

I mean, I. I do.

Oh, it also has the filming pocket.

That's.

I didn't leave.

I didn't put that in the, the Mr. Tooth description.

But that filming pocket so you can film your swing when you're on the course.

That's a big ad for me.

I love that.

I don't know that we'll ever make a bag without that.

We're actually designing a pencil bag right now.

And we had the call yesterday, the whole, like all of Europe and Asia and everybody.

And I'm like, should we put a filming pocket on there?

Like, this bag's really made for the single straps.

Walk in the course, no stand, super pencil bag.

Right.

And everybody was like, it's so good.

Like, just put it on there.

Like, why not?

You know, and.

And I was kind of thinking about it.

For me, because, like, when we stay in Puerto Rico, there's this little course like right down the street.

It's got a great Nine hole loop.

It's got a great three hole loop that we can just go tee off and play three.

Go around again, Go around again.

And for me I'm going to carry the pencil bag for sure.

But I was starting to think I'm going to miss the filming Pocket because I like being able to grab a video of my swing or whatever to share either with like our brand or our friends.

I like being able to capture if I want to.

So yeah, filming Pocket is a pretty big innovation or unique feature on the bag.

And I will be rocking the pencil bag as soon as I have a sample because that's my golf dude these days like chillin, don't really care to have 14 clubs.

Just, just want to go play good golf and, and for me that's, I can get pretty intense with when I really want to focus.

But it doesn't mean I need like the newest equipment or the most perfect thing when it comes to my clubs and stuff.

But there are some, some critical pieces.

Ball glove, bag obviously.

But yeah, I don't know.

I'm gonna be rocking a pencil bag.

Do you ever use a pencil bag?

I do, I have.

I bought a, like a Sunday bag from Link Soul years ago and honestly didn't, didn't love it.

It was a little bit almost too like collapsy.

Yeah.

But I do love the idea of only taking a handful of clubs.

One of our buddies, you probably know him, Justin, Justin Bryant, he comes out and plays in our Friday morning deal.

Justin's actually kind of, kind of a co host of this show.

So he'll be doing part of the intro to this, this episode.

We're going to get him into some of these interviews one of these days.

But he often takes, takes a pencil bag out on Friday mornings mainly because he can beat the pants off of all of us with you know, with seven clubs, with two clubs if he needs but you know, just to go out there and to be a little more creative with, with the game you're playing.

You know, use less of the clubs, not have the exact club every time and you have to kind of get a little bit, a little creative when you're what shot you're hitting that kind of thing.

But I do love the idea of keeping the filming Pocket on that specifically because it's such a part of the, of the, the community now and such a part of the culture I still struggle with.

You know, we're obviously trying to build up our social media and our community as well.

And I love and hate social media.

Yeah.

And and especially when you're out on the golf course and you're trying to just be as present as possible, taking the camera out there, taking pictures.

But then it's so much fun to have those afterwards when we can, you know, just kind of show what we're doing with our buddies and all that stuff.

So.

But I think it's.

It's kind of a signature piece of what you guys do.

That's where we landed.

And it actually works really well that the guys.

The guys in Europe, you probably don't know this, but we're in, like, 100 stores in Europe and UK.

Are you really?

Like, minimal is all over Europe because they care so much more about the environmental stuff.

Wow.

And, like, they.

The story for us there is a little different than here, because environmental, like, it.

It's such an easy one to just, like, kind of greenwash your product and be like, oh, we're using recycled material.

But ultimately, like, as you know, everything that we use today, you and me, is gonna be in a landfill someday.

Like, our.

Your grandkids, like, in 300 years, the stuff that we used is trash.

And probably, like, most of it's going to be trashed within the week.

So it's, like, kind of gnarly, what we're leaving future generations.

And so with minimal's, like, whole philosophy from the very beginning, it was like, make this thing last.

And it's painful that I see some of our original bags, and I'm like, oh, God, it's destroyed.

Terrible.

Like, do better.

Do better.

Because, like, yeah, I'm trying to make a bag that would last 500 years.

It's going to last 500 years.

There's a lot of plastic components in a golf bag.

Even our material that's made from recycled plastic will last now 500 years.

So if we can keep the bag in use, like, use it for as many years as possible.

Right.

Save it from being in a landfill, you know, until 100 years or something.

And in Europe, it's like, okay.

That's why we have magnetic pockets, because a bag is pretty much trash.

When your zipper breaks, like, that kind of kills it, because it's usually the pocket you use the most.

It's the most valuable pocket.

And that's the zipper that breaks.

And then now the whole bag is trash.

You can't replace the zipper.

So that's why we use magnets and then using recycled material.

And those two things really resonate with UK and Europe.

So that's why it's.

Yeah, go ahead.

Yeah.

I never really Thought about the zippers and the magnets.

I mean, I just thought, oh, it's super cool magnetic pockets, you know, like super easy.

It, I mean, made sense that it wasn't going to break.

But never really thought about the implications of then having to get a new bag.

And I know that that's been a huge mission of yours.

You guys do so many cool things just revolving around, not just the making the bags and selling bags.

You guys really have a humanitarian backbone to your company.

Which I think is again, kind of a piece of what this whole show is about is the fact that there's so many things that golf contributes to us in our lives, in the world.

I mean, people like you doing, doing this kind of stuff, putting the attention to detail on the product that you're producing, the, the quality of the product.

Even though you have like a trade in program.

Right?

Like, like trade in your old bag if you're getting a new bag.

Yeah, that's, that's probably, I, I said this, I've said this a bunch of times.

That's probably the most fulfilling thing that I had no idea was going to be so fulfilling is knowing that.

I mean, we're literally.

The other day, Campbell was messaging the SCGA Junior foundation to find out, like, are we still sending bags to this golf course where we had them sending them to them, it's like their headquarters.

And she's like, yeah, keep sending them.

We need more.

And I'm like, you need more?

We've.

So we don't donate them.

Like a lot of times it's like, buy a pair of socks from us and we'll give a pair of socks to it.

Whatever.

We couldn't do that.

It's just way too expensive to make our bags.

But what we do is we make it so that when you buy a bag from Minimal, you can opt into the Trade it Forward program and we'll pay for shipping to get your old bag in the hands of a junior.

And we'll throw in a free Bluetooth speaker.

So you save 40 bucks on a speaker.

And then we'll cover the shipping.

We'll send your bag to the SCGA Junior foundation and then they're going to give it to a junior.

Bags that have been donated to juniors.

But it's kind of sick, right?

It's awesome.

And like I say, I tell this story all the time.

Like I was a, I was in high school, I was a freshman in high school and I got my first golf bag, my mom got it for me for Christmas and I was.

Cause a ping ping wasn't a hoofer.

It's like a ping bag.

I think it had a stand on it.

Anyway.

It was.

But it was a big decision.

It was probably a couple hundred bucks for her.

And in my family, that could have gone anywhere else.

You know, like, if my mom would have had a choice, if she could have gotten a free bag, then that would have been really sick because she could have used that $200 on anything else.

Yeah.

So I think about it all the time.

Like, if I can help a family use that 200 bucks on lessons or whatever, you know, like any other thing in their kid's life, maybe it's groceries, whatever.

It's.

It's cool.

And yeah, to get back to the humanitarian thing, like, I, you know, I had the online golf instruction channel.

Like, I feel like that for me, I kind of.

With my skill set and like the human I am, I feel like I kind of cracked the code on, like, the easiest way for Sam to make money is to create golf content, put it online, promote it on YouTube, sell it to people who want to get better at golf.

Like, I'm kind of.

For whatever reason, I've kind of gotten good at that.

And it works.

But.

And I.

And I still do it.

Like I said, I still coach.

I love coaching, but when it comes to the bag company, it's.

It's really not about, like, make as much money as possible.

It's about make the best product for people like me who care about quality and innovation and, and long lasting and make the best product for players.

But do it in a responsible way.

Do it the best you can for the planet too.

And the more bags we sell, the less, no offense, Titleist, Callaway.

Sun Mountain.

Sun Mountain actually has a recycle bag, but the more bags, minimal sells.

I know for a fact that we're doing the absolute best we can to make a great product that's better for the planet.

So I want to sell as many as possible for that reason.

And it's way freaking harder than giving golf lessons.

Jeff.

Well, I was going to ask you what.

Yeah.

What were.

What were some of the biggest stumbling blocks that you've had to overcome through this process?

I mean, going from that small little studio with your simulator and bags stacked up around you to where you are now and then, and then also, like, where you want to go.

Dude, It's a constant stumble.

Like, I remember there was this one December, I think about it, like all the time, for some unknown reason.

And I was like, all right, if we do a hundred, more than a hundred thousand in revenue in December, I'll buy your Tacoma.

And we did.

We did like 106 or 120.

I don't know, one hundred and something.

Thousand.

And then I was like, ah, well, it doesn't really make any sense.

I'm going to be back in California also, but I'll buy it when I come back down.

And then we didn't do 100 the next month, and we didn't do 100 the next month after that, and we didn't do 100.

So we didn't do it 100, like, ever again.

And now we're kind of like on the climb back up to try to get back to that place.

But, I mean, there's been a couple great months.

But if I'm being real, it's probably like 95% of the time it's all hard.

Like, it's just not easy.

And with air mesh instead of tour velour.

When you ordered air mesh, and you're just like, what do we do?

We have to sell these now?

That's a half a year's worth of bag sales.

And the factory is like, we.

We paid for all the materials.

Like, you should have double checked the.

So, like, that's painful.

Tariffs are effing painful when you expect to pay 180 bucks for a bag landed, which is really high in the industry, by the way.

And then they're like, oh.

And then there's like an extra 10% on top of that.

You're like, sick.

Okay, so now they're 200.

Wasn't counting on that.

But I don't want to talk about how everything sucks, because I really try hard to focus on how great everything really is.

Because it is ultimately, these are champagne problems, as they say.

Like, I could just go back to teaching golf lessons for a few hours a day and be pretty chill.

But I want to do this.

I, like, chose this.

I want to make a difference in this space.

I want to show that you can make better products more sustainably made.

And then the kids thing is, of course, and Then like our whole team and our community in this neighborhood.

It's cool.

It's really meaningful, dude.

It's like, I love it.

I'm really glad that we're doing it.

And I'm not a quitter, as you probably have learned over the years.

Like, I'll grind harder than pretty much anybody.

So, uh, I'm down for it.

I like the battle, but it's, it's a challenge.

And as far as going forward immediately, we are in the process of, for the first time ever, putting our golf bags in golf stores.

Not stores, but Greengrass accounts.

So like the, you know, hopefully the Glen Echoes of the world, if I can get them to take, take our bags and like, yeah, we're.

I'm very comfortable now with the product being in a store with a tag on it, you know, whereas before I really wanted to hold the hand of every customer because I just knew there were some things like if this happens, I really want to be able to talk to them personally.

But now it's.

The product stands up, no pun intended.

And it really does.

Yeah, it works.

It's something I'm very proud of and I'm happy to put it in a store.

And ultimately with mcomp for the whole high school college golfer scene, I hope that they learn about us in the next couple years because I do think they'll pick us for multiple reasons.

But, yeah, that's what's next.

I want to just get in front of as many people as possible.

And now that I'm so proud of the product, I think it deserves to be in a store next to everything else.

Well, I can definitely say that I agree with that statement.

And I think the coolest thing is just that you're doing it different than pretty much every other bag company out there that I know of.

Right.

And I can't remember who said this, but this quote will always stick out to me.

And I'm going to butcher the quote exactly.

But it's something like the value lies in the inefficiencies.

And that's what ends up making a brand stand out is like, you know, all the things like for instance, the hand painted customization you guys do.

Like, nobody does that.

It's almost like, actually, I probably heard it possible, dude.

Yeah.

Like, I probably heard it from our buddies over at firstform because they write a handwritten note every time they have a new customer.

And this is tens of thousands of customers.

Right.

But you get a handwritten note the first time you order it from them.

And it was like, we could do that with robots now.

We could do AI, we could do whatever.

But no, they have somebody sitting down writing it out because when that customer gets it, they value that.

They know that that took you time.

So tell us a little bit about like the customization.

Yeah.

On that topic, we've got a kid in the neighborhood who's looking for a summer job and so he was actually testing out his handwriting ability.

I had him write me a note.

Sam, we hope you love the bag as much as we do.

Sonny and the minimal golf team.

Pretty sick, right?

That's sick.

Yeah, he's sitting right over there right now.

Yeah, those things are again, it's like, I don't know, I feel like we, we're searching for those physical real interactions now.

And like what you said, it's similar to this quote that I think of lately when I.

Somebody was talking about how we can get AI to write an email for us but we're getting dumber by not writing the email ourselves and we're losing creativity and we're forgetting how to spell and so our.

We're dumbing ourselves down by using these automations and stuff which of course in some cases are incredibly valuable.

But dude, show you what I've got right now.

This is the coolest thing.

Like I know nobody's going to be able to or not everybody's going to be watching this but this bag Nicole painted is of me as a skater, 20 years old.

Nice.

Ollieing over a trash can.

Yeah, that's like a real thing.

And then this one is our cat that we had AI design for us that's hand painted.

We're doing a whole AI inspired bag.

So like ask AI to create something and then we paint it.

This one is a bunch of dogs that this family had that's in process right now.

And then this guy apparently.

Or this is a, a paw print on the.

Oh, that's ball pocket and it's like.

A vans checkered pattern.

Exactly.

And then this one.

Nicole, can I slide in here real quick?

This one is my favorite one probably lately is Nicole's working on it right now.

It's another check pattern with like a shift knob.

This guy's into racing.

Yeah.

So like it is terribly inefficient.

Like for sure just bring it to the embroiderer.

Right.

But like to have something that somebody spent time like designing and then tracing and then hand painting, that's cool.

It's, it's some, it's something, I don't know, we care about it I think right now as a society, it's kind.

Of like, like somebody getting a tattoo, right?

Like, the, the time and effort.

I mean, and how many comments do people get when they've got that bag?

And I mean, truly a one of a kind bag.

I just think it's so sick.

I just think it's, it's so cool what you guys are doing there.

It's awesome.

It's fun, man.

Like, we're just.

I think because my pers.

My, my goal isn't just like, how much money can we make?

My goal is how can we be meaningful?

Then it's like, whoa.

Yeah, you do stuff that doesn't make very much money, but it's really freaking meaningful because it checks the box.

So, yeah, we're always going to be like that.

Like, I don't, I personally don't ever want minimal to be like a money printing machine.

I want it to be a.

Want us to bring, like, good stuff to the planet that's going to be around for a while and make people feel good and make us feel good for producing it and pay everybody who works here's rent, basically.

Yeah, but that's about it, you know, like, that's, that's cool if that's where we get to.

But like I said before, if we sell a hundred thousand bags, that's better for the planet.

And so that's, that is the goal, ultimately.

Well, before we even started recording, you asked me, like, who's this podcast for?

You know, what can we give a value out of this?

And so, first of all, like, I think that just showcasing people like you that are doing cool things in the world of golf, I think is a lot of what the show is, is going to ultimately be about.

It's going to the people listening, at least from what I believe and, and who we've kind of built up in our community so far are, you know, golfers in their 30s, 40s, 50s, but they care about golf.

Most of them aren't pro golfers.

You know, maybe they're competitive on some level or another, but they're listening to this show because they love the game of golf.

They geek out on the game of golf.

They geek out on golf things.

And I mean, what more can you geek out on than like, this kind of cool customization stuff?

I can't tell you how many times I've.

I've brought my bag out and people are like, whoa, what's that?

Where'd you get that?

Did you get a new bag?

You know, like, and they notice those little things and so this is exactly what this show is about.

Just so you know, it is really fun.

Like, I. I don't know why I became such a golf bag nerd, but I, like, it's really fun.

Like, even just having this conversation with you has been so, like, uplifting and, like, energy giving.

I don't know, dude.

I don't know why.

I mean, I don't.

I was really lucky to fall into golf the way I did.

I mean, I just am so, like, grateful that my life somehow got combined with golf.

When I was 19 years old, I played in high school, but, like, I was way more into, like, skateboarding and being a delinquent than golfing.

But, like, when I got my job at Wolf Hollow and started just falling in love with the goal of mastering hitting the ball like, that put me on this crazy path that, like, I can't even imagine what my life would be like without ball.

So, yeah, I mean, like, I think we all know it has something for everyone, but I'm just so freaking grateful that this is my life and I get to, like, be rewarded by stupid golf bags.

But it is, like, I don't know.

It's really fun for me.

And I hope, yeah, some listeners are like, that's cool to them too.

I'm sure there's a bunch of golf nerds out there just like, eating, eating any golf talk you can come up with up.

So, yeah, I hope they like it.

What does.

So coming from somebody who's been in the competitive world, the teaching world, like, what's a.

What's an ideal round of golf for you?

Four holes in one.

Four holes in one.

Which would mean that I did my.

My pre shot routine to a tee four times at least, which would mean that I found the flow state and which would be good, I think.

What.

This has come up a bunch lately in the last couple of years.

It occurred to me that I don't golf as much as I used to, and that's a problem.

Like, I.

When I learned about flow state and how to.

When I designed a process to go through on every shot that put me in flow state, I didn't know I was doing it, but I was like, I was doing 72 or less micro meditations every round, which is like, over four or five hours.

It's like monk level mindfulness, dude.

Like, I was better for it.

So I think Campbell was.

Campbell's.

Our ops guy here, does all the social media email, you know, Campbell.

For those of you who don't know, Campbell's a g. He's a very young G, but he's a G. And he was like, we need to get on the course and film some content for mComp.

And I'm like, okay, let's go play like that stupid little 18 hole R3 down the street.

And he's like, okay, great.

When?

And we're looking at it and like, I don't really feel that inspired to play, but I want to because the pre shot routine for me is a little micro meditation.

And yeah.

So to answer the question what a great round of golf would be for me, it would be like just any, any round of golf where I give myself the chance to get into the flow state, be super focused and present on that one task, Visualize the heck out of it, sense, feel every shot to like the greatest degree, See my picture, feel my swing attach to that.

And hopefully when I go to hit it, it's still in that place.

But yeah, any round of golf would if I.

As long as I'm doing my pre shot routine, that's a successful moment.

Are you at this point, are you more excited to go play like a somewhat competitive round?

Are you more like, hey, let's go chill with the boys.

Play barefoot music playing I'm back in Puerto Rico.

What's like, what would be the perfect round of golf in that respect as far as the environment?

What's your, what's your flavor?

Oh, my God, dude.

We walk, Nicole and I walk this little three hole loop in Puerto Rico that's like, I wouldn't do it barefoot because there's a bunch of fire ants out there.

But like, yeah, now we're going to get into like some vices.

But like, she'll grab a monster and I'll get a Vidalia, which is like the Puerto Rican local beer and we'll just.

One strap, one beer, some music, three holes, perfect, dude.

And it's great because that little three hole track is a par five, a par three, and a par four.

So it's everything in three holes that you could want.

And we typically it's like three, but we'll do six.

Sometimes we'll do three and then be like, let's go one more time around and we'll do six.

And yeah, man, I love that.

I love that.

And I, yeah, I do film every once in a while in those walks because there's a part three and what if I make all in one?

So yeah, got it.

At least want to get that on on record.

We've got this little place that we go to with our entire family down in DeSoto, Missouri, tiny little lodge, but they've got a lake, they've got tennis courts, they've got basketball courts, but they've got a little five hole, par three loop.

And when you stay there, I shouldn't tell too many people this because anybody around St. Louis is going to go take up all the weekends.

But when you stay there, you get free access to just go play as much as you want.

So.

And the kids just kind of run free.

It's kind of like old school.

Like your kids can go do anything.

You know, you leave your hotel room unlocked.

You just go in and out.

Everybody's.

And we have like 60 to 80 of my family members there.

And it's just the coolest place.

Yeah.

Because we'll.

My mom's one of 11 kids, so we're all hanging out at the pool and we'll bring our little Sunday bags and we're like, hey, anybody want to go for a loop?

And I mean, we'll loop that thing five, six times over the course of the day.

Shirts off if we want flip flops.

We got kids from, you know, six, seven years old up to my uncles and their.

And my dad in their 70s going out and playing, and it's just like the coolest.

It's the coolest thing.

I mean, I love traditional golf.

I love playing our Friday morning deals.

But when you're out there and you got eight people just walking up the fairway, just whacking, you know, like, it's just.

It.

There's just something special.

And I think that that's, that's so cool.

You know, golf is a place should we not name?

No, it's, it's.

It's called.

It's called Timber Creek.

Actually, I heard that they might be selling it, so it may not stay as is.

I know, it's almost like, let's go buy that place.

Yeah.

But it, it's so cool.

And I think that that's what's cool about golf is it can look so many different ways and you can play it.

So, you know, as a little kid, as a, as an adult, as a, as a person in their 80s, 90s, whatever.

And you can play it any way you want.

Really.

I think that's why, like getting back to this conversation earlier about how golf has now, like, all the cool kids are realizing this is actually like a very great game, a very great traditional game.

I'm not sure if they're being.

Are they too loud behind me?

Can you hear those guys?

Okay.

All right, good.

No, but like, yeah, like it has something for everyone and the traditions of golf are always going to be there.

And like just in general, the game is the tradition of golf, not the traditions of like whatever the clothing and stuff, but just golf in general is, has something for everyone.

And if you play long enough, you're very likely going to become obsessed.

So yeah, it's cool.

It's a really cool spun to be talking golf with you, Jack.

Always, man, always.

All right, buddy.

The last thing that I want to want to ask, we got what we call our golf confessional.

So golf don't lie, you know, obviously can be taken so many different ways.

Golf can humble us, it can teach us lessons, it can make us grateful.

But in the golf confessional, I want to know something that golf brings out in you that most people wouldn't know.

I mean on the positive side, it definitely brings out the best in like in that just in the moment state.

I.

There's been a time that it brought out the worst to me.

Like I threw clubs, I threw, but I don't anymore.

I haven't a long time.

On the positive side, it absolutely brings up a dust in me.

And when it comes to playing, I think, I don't know even now, like I was giving a lesson yesterday and this guy's like working on his swing and I'm like, I was telling him, dude, I would love to just get my 54 degree wedge, turn back to first position and just hit a thousand bullets like over and over on the same freaking line and pull out as many as I could hole out.

And just like I really do love to lock in like that.

I loved it in skateboarding.

One trick over and over and over again.

Even once I got it, I would do the same trick over over and over again.

Because I just like once I locked into something, I loved locking into something.

I don't know if it brings out anything.

I, I can't think of anything off the top of my, my head right now that it brings out that's bad in me.

Is that what you're looking for?

No, not necessarily.

Just something, something that most people don't know about you that maybe golf exposes.

I mean for sure that like neurotic locked in like has to get it right over and over and over again.

It's probably the only thing I can think of that most people wouldn't experience on a day to day interaction with me.

Like, yeah, you probably see me as this like super chill guy.

Everybody is like, oh, Sam's so chill.

He's like, so California or whatever.

But then, yeah, if you.

If you knew me as the.

The golf junkie that I have been.

Can be, you'd be like, whoa, he's super intense.

Well, I remember insane routine.

I remember maybe the first time we met or that.

That first series of times that we met, you had a little notebook, and we were either talking golf or we were.

And maybe you were hitting balls up in the gym or I forget what the scenario was, but you pulled out this little notebook and you wrote down whatever.

And I was like, what are you doing?

You're like, oh, I'm writing.

I write down every field that I'm working on.

And I was like, really?

You're like, yeah, I write down everything when I'm practicing.

Like, if I have a good feel, I write that down.

And it's funny because I just bought myself a little notebook, like, two weeks ago, and I thought of you, dude.

For real.

And.

Because I've been taking some lessons and been working on some different things, and I'm like, you know what?

I tend to forget the little thing that I was working on, and I want to jot this down to have a little.

And I was like, this is straight from Sam.

Yeah, it's cool.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I think that's a gift for sure that golf has satisfied that craving that I have.

Or like, that.

Whatever.

I don't know whatever that is.

But yeah, I don't know.

I. I'm probably the worst answer.

I hope I get to listen to the next podcast and then it's like real juicy content or something.

I'm kind of trash when it comes to that.

Maybe I just need better questions.

I don't know.

I think it's a great question.

I will say I'm glad that it led me down a path of positivity, because that says at least things going right in my brain these days.

Well, I. I have to say, like, without golf, you're not doing what you're doing.

I'm not doing.

We don't know each other, right?

Like, yeah, just.

I feel so fortunate to have met so many cool people that.

And to in the future meet more cool people because of this.

This game.

And it just affords us so many great things.

Being able to play with our friends, our.

Our spouses, our girlfriends, our, you know, our kids, our grandkids, our grandparents.

It's just.

It's so cool.

That's why I feel so fortunate to be able to at least.

Yeah, dude.

And you're kind of highlight this.

You're I mean, you hear this term all the time.

Grow the game.

Grow the game.

Grow the game.

And I.

Every time I hear it, I'm like, you're just trying to grow your profit.

Like, so many brands, so many companies are like, grow the game initiative.

It's like, you don't really care.

Like, you aren't really trying to grow the game for, like, the thing you just said, Jeff.

Like, that's why we want to grow the game, because it has so much value.

And, yeah, I hope everybody that gets introduced to this game can have, like, a little taste of that value.

It's so rare that people don't.

But, yeah, I hope.

Yeah, grow the thing.

Keep doing what you're doing, man.

I'm stoked to be a part of it, and you're doing the right stuff.

If somebody hears this, and I hope somebody hears this and is like, I'm getting nine in after work or, like, whatever.

Like, I'm going to introduce my nephew to this game or whatever.

Yeah.

Or I need to.

I need to get one of them M countbacks because I need to walk more.

You know, Like, I should walk more.

Yes.

So much of it is.

And we say it all the time around here.

It's not so much that we.

We want to grow the game.

We want to grow the golfer.

Right.

Like, we want to.

That's good.

You know, like, help.

We like to use golf as kind of the catalyst to.

To help improve all kinds, you know, whatever it is, fitness, mental side, whatever.

But, like, golf is such a great avenue to do that to.

To get people to realize that they want to get better, and then that can spread out in so many different ways.

So.

But my man, I just.

I appreciate our friendship.

I appreciate you being here, and.

And I'm just really, really impressed with everything that you guys are doing.

It's so much fun to watch and your company grow and all the cool things you're.

You're doing with your company.

So appreciate you and I'm sure this is the first of many times that you'll be coming on the Golf Don't Live podcast.

I'll come back anytime.

That was truly enjoyable, and I'm.

I'm happier now than I was before we started, so that's a good sign.

Thanks, dude.

Brother, you got it.

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