The workplace environment profoundly impacts our overall wellbeing, both positively and negatively. In this episode, we engage in an enlightening discussion with our guest, Bex Hamilton, who explores the vital concept of creating spaces that genuinely facilitate emotional recuperation and stress relief.

While many organisations implement initiatives such as wellness rooms or cycle-to-work schemes, a significant gap often exists between these measures and their actual effectiveness in alleviating workplace stress. Bex challenges us to reconsider how the design of our environments influences our mental states, emphasising the importance of not merely providing amenities but fostering a culture that supports genuine wellbeing.

Join us as we delve into the intricacies of workplace design and its implications for employee health and productivity. Delving into the profound impact of workplace environments on employee well-being, this episode presents a nuanced discussion led by hosts Tristan and Mike, alongside guest expert Bex Hamilton. They commence by addressing the contemporary landscape of workplace wellness initiatives, including cycle-to-work schemes and wellness rooms, questioning their effectiveness in alleviating stress and promoting mental health. With over 60% of employees reporting adverse effects on their mental well-being from their work environments, the hosts emphasise the pressing need for organisations to bridge the gap between intention and implementation.

Central to the conversation is the exploration of what constitutes a supportive workplace. The hosts critique the common practice of creating wellness spaces that lack genuine emotional resonance, likening it to placing a beanbag in a room and expecting it to magically foster well-being. Bex Hamilton introduces parasympathetic design, advocating for an approach that prioritises the emotional experience of employees within their workspaces. She recounts compelling evidence of the positive outcomes derived from thoughtfully designed environments, such as those implemented by SAP, where simple alterations led to significant increases in productivity and employee satisfaction. As the dialogue progresses, the hosts challenge listeners to contemplate the cultural implications of workplace design.

They argue that true well-being transcends mere physical features; it requires a fundamental rethinking of how organisations value and support their employees' mental health. The episode culminates in a call to action for companies to cultivate environments that foster recovery and resilience, thereby enabling employees to thrive both personally and professionally.

Takeaways:

• The workplace environment significantly influences employee wellbeing, both positively and negatively.
• Implementing wellness initiatives without addressing employee emotions can render those initiatives ineffective.
• Creating spaces that facilitate mental decompression is essential for fostering a healthy workplace culture.
• A focus on prevention rather than merely reaction to stress can enhance overall employee satisfaction.
• Organisations often overlook the emotional aspect of workplace design, which affects employee productivity and morale.
• Understanding employee needs and experiences is crucial for developing effective wellbeing strategies in the workplace.

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• SAP
• Facebook
• Instagram
• Japan
• Finland

Welcome to High Five, where insight meets empathy.

I'm Mike Galea and together with Tristan Kelly, we explore the evolving world of workplace experience.

From leadership and strategy to culture and customer experience, we're here to share practical thinking and purposeful ideas that help people and organisations to thrive. We've seen a real shift in how landlords and companies support employee wellbeing.

There's cycle to work schemes, childcare, vouchers, on site cafes, lockers, showers, all great initiatives that support healthier, more convenient ways of working.

However, how much of that actually helps with stress, pressure and anxiety in the moment when the day gets overwhelming, when you need to reset, step away or just breathe what's really in place to support that.

So on today's episode, we're exploring a really important area of workplace experience, what organisations are doing or should be doing to create environments that genuinely help people decompress. Not just functionally, but more importantly, emotionally.

Because a yoga class and a fruit bowl won't help if someone's overwhelmed at 3pm on a Tuesday.

We've all seen them. The so called wellbeing room, a couple of chairs, maybe a plant in the corner.

And somehow that's meant to help people decompress from a high pressure day.

Yeah, and the intention's there, right?

Businesses know wellbeing matters, but there's often a gap between doing something and actually creating an environment where people can properly switch off and reset.

Exactly. It's real wellbeing than just about having a space. It's about how that space makes you feel. Does it help you slow down?

Does it, does it help you breathe? Step away mentally, not just physically.

And here's something interesting. Over 60% of employees say their workplace negatively impacts their mental well being.

Yet fewer than a third feel their employer is doing enough about it.

So the question is, are we solving the right problem or are we just adding features that look good in the floor plan but don't actually change behavior?

Today we're joined by Bex Hamilton, who's looking at this differently and thinking about well being as an experience, not just a room or a space.

We're going to explore what it really takes to design spaces where people can genuinely decompress and what most organizations are still getting wrong.

Let's get into it.

Hey, Mike, have you got a did you know for us today?

Well, that's funny you asked me that because as always, Tristan, yes, I do indeed have one of those. So here we go. Did you know about the little room that changed everything?

Is this a fairy tale?

It sounds like it starts like the one time the little room that changed. It does. But no, it's not.

I want to share a true story about the power of well being spaces and how one tiny room changed the rhythm of an entire global company. Have you heard of SAP?

SAP? SAP, yeah, sure have.

They took a few forgotten corners of their offices, which was really old storage rooms, unused meeting nooks. And what they did was quietly transform them into wellness spaces.

There was nothing to advertise this space as wellness. They just simply did it. But then something remarkable happened. Over time, and this happened quickly.

Employees started drifting in to that space on their own. Not for long, sometimes just five or 10 minutes. A developer would go in to do some breathing exercises.

Project manager would take a quiet moment between meetings. A few teammates even started doing quick stretch breaks together. And the interesting thing was it wasn't a program.

It was, it wasn't advertised, it wasn't even marked or labeled. It wasn't mandatory. What it was was human. And the impact it had was undeniable.

And Sapp later had a look at this and he found that employees who engaged with wellness initiatives, including these quiet rooms, and in fact everything that we've been talking about today, they saw a 21% higher productivity rate. They saw people taking fewer sick days, and actually they reported greater job satisfaction.

And ABSEN and TSM dropped so sharply that the savings alone paid for the entire well being department that went forward. But you know those stats, they only tell part of the story.

And whether it was down to the wellbeing room or lots of other initiatives, that was happening again, that's up for argument. But there was a certain developer and she had a tough year. Work was piling up, energy drained, focus slipping.

And a colleague nudged her to actually try the wellness space. Just ten minutes at first. But then what she did was commit to that process to become a ritual.

And over then, next few months, she found a rhythm again. Her focus returned, her evenings were hers again. Her team noticed the difference and she did too.

And she said something that actually went viral inside the company. Which is why I'm talking about this lady. She said, that little room reminded me I'm human first and employee second. What do you think to that?

I love it. I Focused in. When you mentioned about it not being advertised, there wasn't a sign on the door.

I think lots of great ideas and initiatives aren't advertised, are they? They're almost in secret and then they're just left so that they. So that it can be found. It takes me back.

Shows a little bit my age here, but it takes me back to. It's a Kevin, Kevin Costner film, it's a baseball film, and it's build it and they will come.

And I remember Howie's were a great Welsh clothing brand, and they built a skate park in the middle of a forest, middle of nowhere in Wales. And they didn't tell anyone about it.

They advertised it well, they promoted it a long time afterwards within their brochures, their clothing brochures. But at the time, they didn't tell anyone, and people just found out where it was.

And then it suddenly, it became this kind of mythical space where cool kids would hang out and skate in the middle of this forest. And I think there's something about that that you're. You're almost creating a tribe of people that are dedicated to use that.

And the individual that you spoke about, she found. She found that she, she joined that tribe, if you like, and that became her ritual.

And that enabled her to, to plug back into what was important, which is, as you say, human first and employee second.

And that's the interesting point you're making around this one. And I, and I think that's what I love about this story, which collected this as a did you know, because this, this individual, if we're using her as an example, and it's not that different to the, the skate park, that person felt like she had discovered that space. The discovery was hers, the secret was hers.

Even though someone kind of went, oh, you know, maybe just go in there and, and take a moment to, to reflect and refresh.

But when you do that, and it's not mandated or there's no fanfare or, or there's no signage, or someone actually says go, you know, I'm mandating 10 minutes into that room. When you believe that's your own discovery, you tend to have that ownership. You have that psychological ownership over that.

And well done to SAP for doing this.

Especially at a time when, yes, wellness rooms have existed, whether we called them in the past, religious rooms or safety rooms or decompression rooms, they do exist. But in terms of what they're trying to do, and just to summarize my. Did you know sometimes the most powerful transformation isn't a Huge initiative.

It's a quiet space with soft light and a closed door. And it's a place that says, you know, you matter, take a breath. And when people feel better, they were better, they connect better, they live better.

And SAP just did that. They proved it in the most human way possible with one small room that became a big turning point.

So my did you know for this episode is the little room that changed everything.

That's a brilliant did you know?

And it's, it's really thought provoking because I think if you look at, you look at well being spaces and they are important and they're becoming increasingly important.

Certainly as we look at people burning out, people taking on more responsibilities within organisations, the state of global finances puts pressure on people to really deliver and to over deliver and not to show weakness and not to show that the strains get into them. And therefore, if you like, the importance of those spaces is increasing.

Something I, something that kind of niggles me is if you've got these spaces, often if the culture's not right, you don't really feel you can use that space.

There's a sense that you might be being judged, oh, guess who's gone and had another time out or another, you know, another reconnect or another refresh. And I think we need to overcome that because you could have the world's best space, the world's best environment for you to decompress.

But if the culture of the organisation makes you feel guilty for using it, that you're letting people down while you, you're taking time out, what's your views on that?

Mike, I think you're spot on. And it comes back down to the how and the what, the nuances of one of those spaces.

One, one thought that jumped out at me is when and I've talked about this experiment that I, that I worked on. One of the things that we did experiment with was something very similar. It was a quiet space, it was a wellness area.

And what we put in there was game consoles, a single game console were in a couch and it looked like a living room. It was one of those comfortable spaces that you could step out of the hubbub of the office and step into what was designed as an actual living room.

And in that living room we had a VR headset, we had a games console. And I noticed that no one ever used the game console.

They'll go and sit on the couch and they go and reflect and stuff and they just shut the world out. And it was low lighting and stuff. But they would never use the game console. And I asked why.

I said, well, my boss works right out there, and even though I'm coming in and I really want to play a game because it's my way of switching off and putting my brain to something else to focus on something else that's less stressful than the problem I'm dealing with in my daily work. But if my boss sees me playing a game, they will think that I'm not dedicated to my work, I'm not committed. And that was really interesting.

And I asked more and more with every time someone used that came out, said, did you not want to play? I did want to play that. Yes, of course. Or I wanted to play two player and talk to my colleague about a problem that we're dealing with or.

Or a project that we're working on while we put on mind something else, because we can generate really good ideas. Now, I know that's moving against the idea of a wellness quiet space, but they all come in shapes and sizes.

As a result of that, I installed a curtain that people could close the curtain to shut the glass out, shut the view.

And people started using the game console because they wasn't in view and there wasn't being seen.

And I think that leads into what you were just saying there around people seeing you go in there and closing that door and closing that curtain and then automatically going, oh, they're really stressed. They need some help. I must go and talk to them as soon as they come out.

Well, people just need either a distraction or a way to decompress that works for them. And what we were experimenting with was different methods of doing it.

And on our VR headset, all we had on that VR headset was meditation and breathing and soft music and visuals to escape to, like a tropical beach or floating in space or whatever that looked like we had a whole package that we played with that. And people did go and use that and then came out feeling very smiley. Or even a spa. That was the most popular one.

When someone says, I actually felt like I was in a spa. And our host would go in and pump some smells in their spa smells and menthol and stuff. And that had wondrous effects.

But it's what's so interesting, Tristan, is I only remembered those details when you started talking in this episode. Just then I completely forgot about it because it was a few years ago.

But then it's all come flooding back to me to say, oh, yeah, we played around with this. That's my thoughts. I don't think judgment should be part of it.

But I suppose the question I have for you is we know so much about what makes people effective in work.

How is it that organizations are still creating environments where there is so much stress, where people are burnt out, we're spending so much money on creating these amazing spaces and people are working in some of the best conditions in the world ever. And yet people are more stressed, suffering more from mental health problems, sicknesses on the rise, days off.

What is it that you think organisations are getting so wrong?

I don't think organisations are the ones getting it wrong, Tristan.

Interesting.

I think it's a sweeping term and I don't think we can blame it on the organisations are non entities, they're not people, they're not making rules and decisions. It's the people within the organisation that sets the culture. As we know.

And this might sound controversial here and we don't often do a lot of controversy on high five because we're all about positivity. But here's one of my thoughts, and I'm not saying I'm right, but I'm also not saying I'm wrong.

I don't think there has been a difference and I don't think it is higher than it's always been. I think stress or work stress has always existed. The difference is we talk about it much more openly now than we ever did before.

Before we would hide it, which is not good to do, and we held it in. But we are entering a phase, a dynamic culture where we are much more open, we understand more and it's less frowned upon.

And I believe that because we now talk about it, that's why we see a higher degree of issues coming to the surface. Do I think we have all the answers and we get them right? Absolutely not. Do I think we get it wrong quite a lot? We absolutely do.

Our culture, as especially within the uk, is all like get the job done, then worry about you afterwards. But I do think that dial's turning. But I wouldn't say organisations get it wrong.

I just think it's so diverse now, it's hard in order to get it right for everybody.

That's interesting. Let me just sit with that for a second. I agree with you that there isn't a one solution that's going to cover everybody or to assist everybody.

I do take slight challenge in that the level of stress is is just the same.

If we've become more able and the environment is more susceptible and accommodating for us to share our concerns and our issues, well, surely that should be reducing the level of stress we have. Because the problem should transpose it.

We transpose it, Tristan, because that's what, that's how we are set up biologically, psychologically. We have, we have more tools now than we've ever had ever in our, in the entire history of mankind in terms of working tools that we've got.

You're right. That should decrease stress, but it increases stress in other ways. And that's just. That's the way it's always been, that's the way it always will be.

I think we just transpose it in different ways and it comes out in different ways.

Well, I can feel myself starting to. Starting to get stressed, starting to get a little bit niggly.

So I think it's a perfect, opportune moment for us to bring on our guest for today, Bex Hamilton.

Well, it gives me great pleasure, Tristan, to announce our guest on this week's episode, an expert in parasympathetic design.

Now, if you're asking yourself what that is, I think it's all going to be answered as we get into the conversation because I really got my ears pricked up as well and I'm like, that's an interesting word. What is that?

So I'm really looking forward to delving into this and it gives me such pleasure to introduce our guest for the episode, Ms. Bex Hamilton. Hi, Bex, how are you?

I'm very well, thank you. Mike, how are you?

Well, always good and it's such a pleasure to be able to talk to you. Thank you for giving us some of your time. So let's start off the way it should be. Tell us in the most interesting way all about you.

Oh, my goodness. Well, I'm not sure I'm that interesting, but I'll try. So, yeah, my name is Bex Hamilton. This is my new name, my new business.

We've done mainly events, so printing for events and then later on installing living walls for events. So living walls are basically plants, flowers. They've got branding on them. So whether that's.

So these are things that when you walk into lobbies in offices and you see there's, there's a kind of wall that looks quite mossy and green. That's what, that's what you're talking about. You, you actually designing, install these.

Yes, but we were slightly different. What, what we did was we did them for events.

So what you're, you have obviously got the moss ones, you've got the flower ones and you've got the plant ones. You've also got the plastic ones, which is a bit of a swear word, obviously. So what we did was we bought them into the event sector.

So we went in, put them up, took them down, took them home, branded and basically they would be a very kind of aesthetic addition to a event or party, whatever, whatever you're doing, but also an odd biodiversity, sustainability, all that kind of thing. I think it is fair to say that sustainability wise in terms of personal effort was not ideal.

And I think probably the last six years almost killed me. It's exhausting. I can't, I can't tell you how exhausting. I mean, we've, we've always kept the plants going.

So we've not only do we bring them in, put them up, make them look beautiful, brand it, we then bring them home, put them back in the polytunnel or wherever else they need to go and keep them going for the next event. So it, it's 247 constant. Fantastic. I mean, I loved it, but like I say, it's, it's a lot of hard work.

So that, that business is now winding down and it's just been a natural sort of transition for me to want to remain with plants. I love working with plants. I absolutely believe in the, the full, healing, restorative qualities of plants, trees, everything.

But I want to do something more on, on a permanent level, really.

So introduces the Ex Hamilton prototype green room, which my experiment for bringing people in and having them in a room with all the right elements to. As you were mentioning earlier, the parasympathetic nervous system is to create a place for the nervous system to recover.

That's kind of evolved then into this, this idea of the green room. That's easier to say than parasympathetic design. I'm probably saying that completely wrong, but just shed some light. What does that even mean?

What is that really? In simple terms, I think maybe the.

Best way to describe it is burnout. Basically. I have been my perfect subject, if you like.

It occurred to me that I was working in completely the right circumstances, you know, surrounded by plants, I really should be calm because what I was noticing was that people, even though it was an aesthetic, symbolic, sustainable angle for businesses to have. So I mean, we work with some good big clients, Facebook, Instagram, financial institutions.

Even though that's what they were kind of getting at when we were installing these walls, even when they were just going up when we had them installed. And even when we took them down, people just love being around them. They just love it. You, I can't tell you. So what happens is if you're.

If you're sort of in an exhibition, especially somewhere like Excel or one of those exhibition centers which is, you know, they're horrible. They've got no natural light. They really are. Are horrible places to be.

People would just naturally gravitate towards the wall and you could see their whole body relax a bit, like yoga or meditation or, you know, on a. On a lighter level. But certainly you can see. And that's basically the nervous system relaxing.

I think I get the same sense whenever I take a long drive to a beach somewhere and you get off the car and you've got the dog and you just stand there looking out across the waves and all you can see all the way out to the horizon is water. But what you then hear are the waves coming in.

And every time I feel a physical, sensory change within my body and any angst often just caused by the drive in, anything deeper than that just dissipates and a real sense of calm takes over me.

Absolutely. You've exactly got it. And I think you've hit on a few things there. Like, there's so many elements.

There's not just one element, there's a lot of elements. And one of the things that I've really been looking into is sound.

Because every time I would install one of these walls, I'd kind of stand in front of and I'd want to hear birdsong. And exactly like you say, the waves, there's certain noises, frequencies. Yeah.

I've been looking at scientific studies about it and there's just some fascinating stuff to read about it. And it does. It's just the right level that just puts you at ease and it does make you forget your problems, even if it's.

It's like lying on a sunbed when you go on holiday. You know, in that moment you just go. It's like, that's. That's what I'm investigating, basically.

How can we get this feeling into our normal lives without having to go on holiday or drive miles to the beach or, you know, I mean, that said, I am quite far away from everybody in the country, but I will bring it to you.

So when it comes to your. Your green room concept, then how. How do you manufacture the environmentals into it?

Well, Mike, this is the question. I'm. I'm building it from the ground up. So what I know. What I do know is what we've discussed. We know about the plants, we know about the sounds.

I think there's, there's a lot of things that we know that we need to get the light right, need, you know, everything needs to be right. But that's where I'm at that I know the plants are right and I know that we need the right sounds.

But what I'm gonna do is I've actually been invited to Helsinki and Croatia based on what I'm doing to go and explore what they're doing. Because Finland actually just got announced for the ninth consecutive year yesterday that it was the happiest country in the world.

So like, what are they doing? What are they doing to, you know, it's, it's incredible.

I don't think anybody thinks of Finland, you know, like that, but it is nine consecutive is, is pretty awesome. So I'm literally on the edge of finding this out.

I'm doing the research, going out there and I'm really excited to see, you know, what I can bring back.

But there's so many elements, like I want to put in a sauna, a cold plunge pool, a Zen garden, you know, and I'm lucky enough that I can do all of this and experiment with it. So we're gonna have to talk again so I can fill you in at that point. I'll be very calm person.

Oh, well, you absolutely have to come back and share with us the secrets of Finland's happiness. And that blows my mind of how a nation can be so happy in such turbulent times. So yes, very much.

We'll dedicate a whole happiness episode to you and, and Helsinki in Finland.

Well, that is actually it's International Happiness Day today, isn't it? So Happy happiness day.

That's why we're all so jolly.

Exactly. Well, I'm always like this, what are you talking about?

It's interesting that Finland, they're not alone though, are they? There are a number of European countries and as countries they actually look at mental health and well being from the other way.

Like I think certainly I feel that maybe a lot of landlords and property managers, they see it as a. Okay, well this is another box to tick. So we need to have a well being room or we need to make sure we've got some showers.

And if you're an employer, you provide cycle to work vouchers and various other things. And I wonder just what the take up on of that is and really how effective it is in overcoming burnout, overcoming workplace stress.

And I was interested to see that Japan actually has a Stress check program where if you employ more than 50 people, you have to put in stress checks and follow up and really get to the root of if people are working under duress, under stress due to the complexity or the nature of their work. And there's a number of countries that look at similar schemes. Why, why is it that we're so far behind that, that, why is it.

We're so far behind? And I, I mean, I don't know. I haven't actually looked where the UK is because I don't want to be depressed today.

But I believe that they've fallen down the happiness chart. So that's, that's not ideal. Go back to Japan quickly as well. They also have beds at their desks, I, I believe.

So they can have little naps during the day and they actively encourage it, which I think is amazing because we should be working to, you know, that how our bodies are reacting Circadian, circadian, whatever it is. Can't remember the word, but yeah, that, you know, so. Yes, rhythms. Exactly, exactly. Another thing I should be looking at for the room.

Yeah, we had a, an architect work with us for a while in the studio in Shoreditch and, and he would just take a five, ten minute nap. And the first time I saw him do it, I was completely baffled. He just put his chair back, put some headphones on and 5, 10 minutes.

He worked hard, long hours and he was, he was freelancing for us, but he was also studying to become a full time architect at the time.

And, and so I could, I get that he needed a rest, but he would, he would almost fade then have a 5, 10 minute power nap and then be supercharged and ready to go again. And so while it took a little bit of a adjustment, we accommodated it because we could see just the benefits from it.

And I think from then on nobody really worried too much. If you, if you took a 5, 10 minute nap, as I say it was, it was a busy studio and we, we worked hard and occasionally you kind of need to reset.

I think a part of the problem is that because there were these eggs at one point that people could go and have a little nap in was, you know, and I think part of the problem is being feeling visible to everybo else that you're, you're succumbing to that, you know, feeling of tiredness.

But surely if you take that, as you say, you take that 5, 10 minute break or even if it's longer and you come back better, your brain's better, you're refreshed everything. It seems to me to be a much better way of working, but being nervous of what other people think makes it counterproductive almost.

It is. It's a cultural change, which we know is always hard to do. To celebrate this, let's take a five minute nap right now.

If you're listening to this, this podcast and you're not driving, we're gonna play five minutes of ambient noises of crickets and have a quick nap and then you'll hear us again in five.

Now, of course that's not really going to happen just to connect to this idea of the well being room, because I'm really intrigued by this and I'm, you know, I really like to get your view on it. It's essentially always been described as a spare space that people need to do something with it.

So they throw some beanbags in there or they throw a few chairs in there. Why do organizations get that so wrong?

Oh, they really do. I've experienced them and I don't want to say anything because I don't want to say anything bad about people's rooms.

But yeah, I think there's been a lot about neurodiversity and how people who are neurodiverse are more susceptible to things like the lighting, the noises.

I mean, I've heard interviews with people and they say they, they hear a time no one else notices but those little noises or those little light things and they say nobody else not. But I think it does have an impact. Perhaps not, not as much, but it does have an impact.

So there's, it's been building, but I think it doesn't matter where you are on the spectrum. I think it still affects you and I don't. Yeah, you're right. These. I don't want to sit on a beanbag. That's not what I want to do.

I want to be surrounded by nature and like say not everybody's lucky enough to do that, but we can make it happen. We can bring it to offices, gyms, wherever it needs to be.

And I think it's really just as important as exercising, training, sleeping, everything else being, you know, we all know grounding, you know, we go out, there's just so much evidence to say that it's the right thing to do. So why aren't we doing it?

Yeah. What's your target market then? Are you looking at that health and wellness and spa environment? Are you looking at offices?

Are you looking at hotels and restaurants? Or are you looking at all of them? Are you quite open at the moment to See where it goes.

I am open. I genuinely think that there's a market, there's a definitely. There's a little gap through the whole lot there that can use them.

I mean, even just, even if you're just going in and installing living walls into places for people to relax around, you know, to even just. That can be so like a game changer.

But somewhere like a gym, I really feel like, you know, you're kind of covering every angle, but you don't do anything for the nervous system. So you can do all of the exercise in the world, still walk out and not feel if you're still walking out into concrete jungle, for example.

I just feel like it could be a game changer for gym.

But I hear a lot of terminology when it comes to these places, such as decompression. You need a space to decompress that culturally doesn't feel right.

Now I get the certain roles and certain jobs that people do, you know, especially customer facing roles. They're on the phone, they get angry customers. Yes, you need a place to go and relax and decompress.

But if the environment introduces pressure, then surely it goes beyond that green room, that wellness space, because it doesn't matter how many, how many hours you spend in there, or Big Dave's in there, you know, decompressing again, he's ultimately going to come back into the same high pressure. How do you balance that then? Bex?

In any environment, you could say, if that's the case, maybe the whole office should be changing into this environment. I mean, why not? We can bring in mobile walls, separation walls that move around plants.

We can, we can make the environment like a green room, but without those nice chairs to sleep on, for example, the statistics of people having time off, sick, productivity, everything else is all out there. It is all out there. So I'm not sort of going, oh, yeah, we need some plants to make us feel better. The work's been done and it has been proven.

So, you know, maybe, maybe in these high sort of stress environments, maybe they just need to be working in a better environment. And I'm absolutely convinced it's the environment that helps for sure.

The interesting point on Biophilia is I've seen it happen where plants are installed into offices, but merely as a space technique. So it's like we've got shelves that we need to fill, stick plants in there.

Aesthetics. Yeah.

Yes, the aesthetics, but.

And what you're saying is actually you need to be more connected to nature, more connected to the idea of, of that Greenery because it is, it will help your wellness and well being. Would that encapsulate what you're saying?

There it is.

I think people need to be more aware of it as well because sometimes it's not possible or reasonable to expect a whole office to just suddenly sprout plants everywhere. But even you can make it work with just. If everybody's got a little focus of something green, they can make that work.

It does really help with grounding, so it' educating people as well on how to do that. Because if you don't come from the countryside, it's not natural, I suppose. I don't know. I'm not. I'm definitely a countryside girl.

But I think we can make it work with what we've got, but not just thrown in for aesthetics like you say.

And that's the interesting thing, where I've come from most of these events, sorry to say, maybe I'm wrong, but it felt like they were doing it for aesthetics and reputation. But actually the effect it did have was profound.

Bex, one of my final questions for you because I'm quite a curious person. You've talked about research and you're in the throes of research.

You're going to visit Finland and Helsinki to validate your understanding, to compile your thesis and you talked about answering the question. What is the question?

You're trying to answer the question. Well, look, we live in the UK and we're miserable and Helsinki's been doing this for nine years. They're getting something right for sure.

Happy nervous system. I mean, they're different things.

But I do think that there's a lot to be said for whatever it is they're doing because I think it's fair to say if you go to Croatia, you can be quite happy. It's beautiful, you know, it's a beautiful hot country. So it's ticking the boxes. But I don't. With Finland, I don't know. You're not.

It's not the typical sunny holiday you're going on for that escapism. So I'm. I'm fascinated to find out what they're doing. So. Right.

Nine years is a long time for constant happiness and I want to find the answer to that.

Yeah. From a workplace point of view, I think their focus is on preventing stress so not necessarily reacting to it.

You're not putting in a workplace first aider once you've already got stressed. They're looking at measures of overcoming that and ensuring that it doesn't take place and maybe that's something we need to be.

We need to be a lot more practical.

So not that they're kind of wishy washy, aspirational spaces, but that there are lots of measures and your green room idea as you develop the brand is just part and parcel of a range of practical, practical solutions that try to head off people being stressed and certainly. Crikey. What was the word we used earlier? Burnt out.

Burnt out. That, that's the big one for me, burnout. Like I say, I've been my best subject to investigate.

I'm not sure at what point I'll stop being burnt out because it's fabulous doing all this research and work, burning out until the room's made. I'll still be on that journey.

Well, you're doing something right. Just talking to you today has made me happy. So thank you very much for, for bringing your sunshine to Tristan and I today.

Thank you very much for having me. It's been a good conversation. Interesting.

And do keep us abreast of your research and your travels across Europe as you discover more about. About happiness within the workplace. Well, Mike and I definitely.

But I'm sure our listeners would also be keen to have your insights continually shared.

Amazing. Implementing happiness into the workplace, what a great challenge to kind of discover. Excited? Yeah.

There's your North Star to get behind.

So we, we cannot let you go, however, without one of our constant segments. Are you ready for this?

Go on.

Yeah. So before we let you go back, can you share with us a high five moment?

And the moment you come away from that and you know you're going out on your own, but you have such a vision of what you want to find and achieve and being able to take the passion of what I've already done, but make it into something that seems to be more scientific and me and really meaningful. And the more I get into it, the more I'm learning, the more passionate and interested I become.

So, yeah, high five moment is just going solo and getting out there and doing it myself. So watch this space.

This is like a high five before the high five as well, which is great because you're going to come back, you've got the secret of happiness you're going to talk to us about, which is going to be the. That is going to be, from a, from a UK perspective, life altering.

And I can't wait for that, that national high five to Happen Bex, when you change the view of our culture future.

Gosh, no pressure there then.

Mike, I think we've had our first Eureka high five.

Where it's your high five is based on kind of self discovery, self awareness of the potential, the, the scope, the ever expanding nature of, of the subject matter you're looking into. And that must be. Yeah, that must be really energizing, which is what high fives are meant to be.

They're meant to capture that kind of energy of great service or a eureka moment that you've just shared. Shared a great one. Thank you for that.

Well, thank you very much. This has been quite eye opening for me as well because it's the beginning of my journey. Let's go.

And we wish you the best.

Thank you so much.

You know, Tristan, what I've taken away from this conversation is that well being isn't actually a room at all. It's actually so much bigger than that.

I agree. I think we've spent years talking about well being in terms of initiatives and facilities.

Cycle schemes, wellbeing rooms, employee assistance programs. But what Becks has challenged us to think about is how people actually feel in a space.

And that was the word that kept coming back for me. Environment, the impact of light, sound, nature, even the way the room is designed. Things that most of us probably take for granted.

Absolutely. And I think there's an important distinction here. A beanbag in a spare meeting room doesn't magically make people feel better.

Better, but creating an environment that helps people slow down, breathe, reset and recover, that's a very different proposition.

What I also found interesting though was the idea that the countries doing this well aren't necessarily waiting until people burn out. They are trying to prevent stress in the first place.

Prevention rather than intervention. And perhaps that's the challenge for workplaces over the next few years.

Not simply asking what well being facilities do we have but, but what kind of environment are we creating every day?

Because if the workplace contributes to pressure, then surely it should also play a role in help people recover from it.

Maybe that's the biggest takeaway from today's conversation. The best workplaces of the future won't just be designed for productivity, they'll be designed for people.

They'll help us to focus when we need to focus, collaborate when we need to collaborate and recover when we need to recover.

And Tristan, I think that's a great place to leave it. Bex Hamilton, thank you so much for joining us. And thank you audience for listening. This has been high five where insight meets empathy.

We can't wait to see you next time.