Shownotes
Here are the key takeaways from the episode:
1️⃣ Due Process and Fair Trials: The episode delved into the importance of due process of law, particularly related to the 14th Amendment and the anti-slavery amendments. It highlighted the right to a fair trial, meaningful defense, and the impact of unfair prosecutions, particularly on minority and black individuals in the South during the Jim Crow era.
2️⃣ Social Media Suppression: The podcast touched on the meeting between the Biden White House and social media platforms during the COVID pandemic. It discussed the alleged instruction to suppress and downplay certain organizations and viewpoints, raising concerns about the restriction of alternate perspectives, even when they aren't extreme. The importance of open discussion and welcoming disagreements was emphasized.
3️⃣ Housing Prices and Government Policies: The episode explored the impact of bad policies on housing prices in coastal cities, referencing a study by Thomas Sowell. It shed light on the role of land costs, wealthy individuals using environmental policies to restrict housing development near their properties, and the corruption within Congress benefiting members and their relatives with favorable mortgages.
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Stephen Palmer is the Managing Partner for the law firm, Palmer Legal Defense. He has specialized almost exclusively in criminal defense for over 26 years. Steve is also a partner in Criminal Defense Consultants, a firm focused wholly on helping criminal defense attorneys design winning strategies for their clients.
Norm Murdock is an automobile racing driver and owner of a high-performance and restoration car parts company. He earned undergraduate degrees in literature and journalism and graduated with a Juris Doctor from the University of Cincinnati College of Law in 1985. He worked in the IT industry for two years before launching a career in government relations in Columbus, Ohio. Norm has assisted clients in the Transportation, Education, Healthcare, and Public Infrastructure sectors.
Brett Johnson is an award-winning podcast consultant and small business owner for nearly 10 years, leaving a long career in radio. He is passionate about helping small businesses tell their story through podcasts, and he believes podcasting is a great opportunity for different voices to speak and be heard.
Recorded at the 511 Studios, in the Brewery District in downtown Columbus, OH.
info@commonsenseohioshow.com
Copyright 2024 Common Sense Ohio
Transcripts
I think it's probably a good time to, at least for me, to sort of, communicate why I do this show because a lot of people I've been talking to recently or like, well, you're trying to convince me or you're trying to change my mind. No. No. No. That is That is not why I'm on this podcast whatsoever. What I'm trying to do, my the other 2 guys have their own reasons and and they may be the same. They may be different. But my particular objective is just to stimulate is just a, you know, basically the old socratic method, right, I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything. I'm simply saying how I feel and I and I just want people to perhaps have their brains tickled a little bit, some new information or some information from a different perspective. So, I'm not here to change anybody's mind. If if your mind is changed, great. If it's not, hey. We're here to entertain. I'm here to entertain. I'm here to, you know, convey, information and stimulate you for further study, further analysis
Steve Palmer [:and I'm happy if I do that much. Well, I think, that's a great point. I think that, Brett, you you can appreciate this because I think you and I have shared this conversation numerous times that podcasting happens here at the round table at channel 511 is exactly that. You know, you you may come in thinking you know, what you're talking about. You'll always leave a little bit tweaked one way or another, stimulated in a way. Perhaps that we have lost,
Brett Johnson [:here too far in our country. And as long as you allow yourself to learn a little bit too, Yeah. Open your eye. Because you cannot be a 100%. No. Completely correct. No. Like, how many times have been the norm wrong?
Norm Murdock [:I was born wrong.
Steve Palmer [:No. You're exactly right. I have I have changed my thoughts midstream in a conversation while recording down here. submit me to. And and if you're too if you're too prideful to use that awful nasty word, to let yourself go there, then shame on you, which is the which is really pride. Right? That's right. Yeah. Andrew Claibnoy says that pride is shame in disguise.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Co and Claaven's the master. Yeah. He's he demands incredible. Yeah. And and that's interesting a day that you're getting that feedback on what you do here. Yeah. Yeah. Because that that's definitely not our intent. It's just us to blow. And as I've told you guys off, Mike and probably on Mike too, I learn something from you guys every week. hand same here. And and, you know, it's,
Steve Palmer [:if if their minds are getting changed, it's because they're listening. they're thinking. They're thinking. Yeah. Right. So use use the talents god gave you. Right. And and as a trial lawyer, I will say one more thing, and then shut up about it as a trial lawyer since I've started podcasting and having these sort of long form discussions down here in the studio. It is sharpened my abilities in a courtroom tenfold because it forces, you know, there there's this notion. I've thought a lot about this. I feel like What when we think, it it's like, you're only getting about half the benefit that you would if you think and talk at the same time because if you can verbalize your thoughts, that means you have to force yourself to think through it enough to organize it. And if you organize it enough that you can explain it to somebody else, then you're almost all the way there. And now if if you organize enough to explain it to somebody else and then they give you feedback and then you can adjust your thought process and then give it back to them. Well, now you're you've you've accomplished something. Sounds a lot like the scientific method that we abandoned back. I don't know how many years ago now. Yeah. Because the postmodernist Right. But it's like, you know, you start with a premise, disprove it, and then go back to the premise, fix it, and then try to disprove it again, and then it constantly hones. We're never right here. We're only on a journey towards common sense. We're gathering data. You know, it's kinda like the current discussion about,
Norm Murdock [:the climate you know, it's hot in the summer. There's this really bright round thing up in the sky that we see, you know, half of the 24 hour period. And we get all of our heat from that thing. Right? That's That's where the heat on the earth comes from. And, yes, the the, obviously, the atmosphere can be denser. It can be you know, filtered from various chemicals whether from volcanoes or from mankind and all of that. But we only have, like, you know, to Steve's point about gathering data and then making the conclusions rather than coming to a conclusion first and then, you know, scampering around to find data to support
Steve Palmer [:a conclusion you've already drawn is best, best, backwards Well, this is this is relevant for some news that happened this week. You know, it sort of came out or it is now emerged through congressional, hearings, I think, in fact, Jim Jordan released information. it might have been notes, I believe, from a meeting that the Biden White House had with Facebook and some of the other social media platforms. back in the COVID days telling them to squelch and downplay or whatever down service or shadow ban, rather, Yeah. certain organizations that were, promoting viewpoints that were contrary or even if those viewpoints weren't like extreme, you know, just anybody that questioned it, suppress it. They're suppressing alternate viewpoints. And, you know, if you're not, like, here, if if you're offended by what we're saying, you know, I'm not sorry about that. Come in here and let's talk about it. And, you know, if you're offended so much that you can't talk rationally about it, well, then you're not welcome. If you're if you're offended and you're you're like, wait a minute. He's not right about that. Well, it's it's a note. Come on in. Have a discussion. You know, we don't I I I I love it. In fact, I mean, it's like that. And this is where we I got to start talking about with you, Brett, it's like, when when you engage people at a at a sort of a communal level like we do here. it is amazing the parts of your brain that opens up and, you know, people on I've seen people on pleat opposite ends of the political spectrum down here, and you wouldn't even guess it. Yeah. The, what you're talking about, the Facebook files that Jordan released and he's modeling that after the Twitter files. Right? You know, that Taibi and the other journalists,
Norm Murdock [:discorded. so now there's Facebook files. And as Steve pointed out, not only COVID, but also White House positions. So political positions that the White House wanted to, you know, spread, to have adopted by the population Right. You know, things like, the hunter's laptop and Joe's grandchildren and -- Right. Which are impacting election results. That's right. So and Proda went right I mean, Facebook went right along with. Went went right along with it. And what they were doing is White House officials were holding over Berg's head, this,
Steve Palmer [:section 2. Section 230. Thank you. 230.
Norm Murdock [:And basically saying, you you'll do this
Steve Palmer [:Right? Or we have ways to throttle you through the regulatory system and take away some of your So section 230, we've talked about here, but we'll just give a quick recap. What that is is basically it gives the social media platforms immunity from lawsuits and things like defamation. So for instance, if you're a bulletin board and you put up a bulletin board in public or say a telephone pole and people start putting up notes and those notes become defamatory, The person who owns the poll generally can't be sued if if they're not monitoring the content. So as soon as you start monitoring the content like a newspaper, for instance, and you you get to you have control editorial control over what is published. Well, now all of a sudden that that kind of intervention or that kind of, you know, that hands on will give somebody standing to sue you. Yeah. The The social media platforms here too for under section 30 have been treated like the bulletin board where it it look, Norm, you can post something up there that calls bread a no good rottenesso see that, that likes bestiality. And it's not true. So Brett could sue, if if if you didn't have that immunity, Brett could sue Facebook. for that. Yep. and that's an enormous.
Norm Murdock [:That's an enormous lever of control over social media. Because if you lose that, they're gonna start going it every day. Yeah. And that's that's what they that's what was revealed in the in the Facebook files is that they were leveraging that against Facebook. threatening Facebook and and, and then Facebook, capitulate. And all this secret behind the scenes Yeah. Meetings. These are, like, closed door meetings and notes emerged. And what and and, you know, what is heinous about that, of course, is as we just had the Supreme Court decision, right, you cannot you cannot offload to the private sector official government censorship, you know, you can't you can't delegate that to the private sector by force or by coercion. And that's, you know, that is exactly what has been going on. Yeah. These in in look, people
Steve Palmer [:have to understand that this is going on not just in things like first amendment. This goes on in banking. It goes on in local and businesses. Sure. The auto industry. anything that the government wants to regulate, they do so through the backdoor. They do so through something called conditional spending. I think there's an old case called South Dakota versus dull. that says you, you know, the government can withhold spending in order to, create a lever of control over what the states do. and and, you know, don't don't don't minimize
Norm Murdock [:How significant that can be? Oh, Steve, you know, to your point, like when Obama was president, he forced, Chase Bank JD j what is it? J. P. Morgan Chase. Yeah. Yeah. J. P. Morgan Chase, but I'm trying to thank Diamond, whatever. Uh-uh. Yeah. Think of his first name. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, anyway, Jamie. Jamie, Jamie Dimon. Thank you. they forced him during the Subbuying prime crisis -- Yeah. You bet. -- to buy all those, defunct
Steve Palmer [:mortgages. Well, there's a great book on this. Thomas Sole, my hero wrote a book on this, and, he talks about what caused the mortgage crisis, and it's really fascinating. And, you know, like, you, like, you, like, you might guess it's not the evil business guys, although they were probably complicit at a time. and it's not just the banks, although they were complicit at times. It all originated with bad government policy. Right. All of it. Right. And then your government turned their back and said, well, you they blamed different Of course. If you could fog a mirror, if you know, adults who were around back then could tell that, you know, kids now that are grown up, they but they could relate that back in the days
Norm Murdock [: me days. late nineties, early: Steve Palmer [:to to get their own health. Before that, what you had going on is you, and Thomas sold did a study of this, and I'll butcher the book. So go read it. I I'll I'll even come up with a name maybe and put it in the website. But, so you had bad policy out of the coastal cities that basically made land a commodity. and it was environmental type policy. Right? But it wasn't really just environmental policy. It was like the very wealthy people didn't want houses being built next to their property. they started to do things like, deed restrict or or, covenants on neighborhoods, communities, anybody who's lived in a homeowners association Kansas, a lot had to be, like, certain sizes. So all of a sudden, if your lot was one acre, now it's gotta be 10. And they do it under the guys. Like, we're gonna preserve the beauty of the land. Well, guess what that does? scarcity of a land. So land prices go up and sold to a study on this, and he said, look, the the cost of labor really hasn't gone up. The cost of materials really hasn't gone up. What's really gone up is the cost land. So that's driving the housing prices up at the coastal city. So it started in New York, in, you know, road high and all the city you can imagine. California so then people couldn't afford houses. And because people couldn't afford houses, everybody deserves a mortgage. Right. Now, and if people can't afford is what they they were blaming the banks for not giving loans to people who couldn't afford houses rather than bad policy from the outset that drove the housing prices up. supported by the government, by the way, under the guise of environmental protection. And, you know, you could say that's a good cause, but at least say that's why it happened. Yeah. These mortgages were backed by Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac. And then all the Congress, half of Congress was was working on the board of Freddie Mac and Freddie Mac. Like, they're spouses and cousins and uncles were getting great mortgages. I mean, it was so corrupt. That's right. It and and these the movies
Norm Murdock [:about all this and the popular culture about all this, would lead you to think it was bankers, you know, that they were they they were the fraudsters. They were only half of this. They they they did their
Steve Palmer [:part They did their part. Not until well into the game, you know, because there was a thing. You know, there was a thing that the private sector came up with, the 30 year fixed mortgage. And I don't know the full history of this, but I know this is that to get a 30 year fixed moored mortgage used to mean something. used to mean that you had a stable job. That's right. That you had the ability to pay it back. You had good credit history. You had, you know, you're a certain age. You're buying a house you could afford. I mean, it meant something to your grandfather to get a house on a 30 year fixed note, and it meant it was the life mortgage. You know, it was the gauge of your life. You would you would pay it back over your life and you'd own your house. And it was on the bank. I, like, it wasn't federally back. That's right. The banks came up with it to protect themselves. To protect themselves. Right. They did underwriting. They did their research. They didn't get people loans who couldn't pay them back. And, you know, the the government turn and say, well, that's got that's discriminatory because there's certain races that aren't getting loans or certain classes of people that can't get loans. And, you know, if you not everybody should have a loan because not everybody's capable of paying it back. I am. And that's why they were subprime.
Norm Murdock [:They they were They were mortgages given to people that the banks and anybody rational looking at at that applicant doesn't matter their color or gender or anything. Just looking at the numbers. If you're just doing the math and you're looking at that person's credit history, and you're and you're just making a scientific conclusion. Oh, yeah. The likelihood of this particular person paying back this mortgage is maybe
Steve Palmer [:5%
Norm Murdock [:I mean, they're they're going to default.
Steve Palmer [:I remember back in those days on the phone. I remember the I remember where I was sitting, and I remember the phone call. I can't remember the guy's name, but he was a mortgage hustler. And I was I I remodeled a house here in Columbus, and I was looking to get a loan, and he let me you know, back in those days, it was like a it was a jumbo of 300,000 plus. They lent me, like, 300,000 plus interest only. on a telephone call. It was crazy, man, on a telephone call. And that was some papers I had to sign and authorize, but -- Right. -- you know, maybe a tax returning a telephone call, and that was no underwriting whatsoever. Right. And I remember thinking at the time, man, interest only if I do that and I actually pay it like it's a 3rd. I what I did is in my head, I amortized over 30. and I paid the 30 year payment. So I was treating it like that, but my it was I was getting you know, I paid it off quickly. Well, Steve, they had companies,
Norm Murdock [:you know, to to put, you know, to ping off of your story. They had companies with names like Rocket Mortgage. And the whole point was you could be online. You could fire up their app, be online, and get a mortgage like a rocket. Right? Like in 5 minutes. No paper loans. A 100,000 bucks in 5 minutes based on your signal. No income verification. No nothing.
Steve Palmer [: Now that's crazy. In: Norm Murdock [:It took 2 months -- Right. -- of underwriting to get through it. It went from one extreme to the other. And it was insane. And now now I'm hearing Steve. It's like, for, yeah, for people that wanna try to get a loan now, it's very difficult. Yeah. It it's it's a I'm dealing with it right now on a commercial loan, and it's, it's hard. That's very hard. Yeah. Alright. We've we've -- Well, hey. I think we gotta talk a little bit about the j 6 indictments on Trump. I I'm I'm fascinated by 2 legal experts, both of whom I really respect. So Jonathan Turley, law professor, very renowned, liberal guy. he says that basically the 4 indictments, which were you know, Trump plead not guilty to yesterday, in federal court. He says those 4 indictments are essentially 1st amendment cases. that, you know, it it in his legal analysis, even though the indictments himself say, no. It's not about the first man that
Brett Johnson [:Tirley says, yes, it is. Because at the end of the day, you are to drill into Donald Trump's head and figure
Norm Murdock [:out did he really believe the election was subject to machinations and and voting violations and election law uh-uh violations and and basically fraud in the in the voting process and yet On the other hand, Trump's own attorney general at the time, Bill Barr says, no. No. No. No. It's not a first met. It it that's not a valid defense for Trump. So,
Steve Palmer [:I'm fascinated by it. Both things are true. I think both things are true. It reminds me, you know, people know I love the classics, but, if anybody who's ever read Shakespeare has has been maybe Julius Caesar, There are 2 funeral speeches, one by Mark Anthony. I think it's Mark Anthony's funeral speech where he says I have not come here to praise Caesar. I've come to bury him. And then he goes on and praises Caesar for the next 15 minutes. You know, I don't need to tell you how great he was. I don't need to tell you that he did this. I don't need to tell you all this stuff. You know, you guys know all that. And I've used that technique in a courtroom many times. You know, it's like, I don't need to tell you what makes people lie. I'm not gonna go into that. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. But, you know, just indictment sort of does. It's like it on its face, it says, We respect the 1st Amendment. You know, these this isn't a 1st Amendment problem, and we're not gonna go to, you know, we're not prosecuting for things that were said then they go on and prosecute for things that were said because, you know, what Barr's point is on the other hand is that you can define this in a way narrowly. where they're prosecuting things people say, but, Barr would say, well, look, fraud isn't protected speech or lies and, and conspiracy conspiratorial statements to commit a crime aren't protected. And, you know, and we do prosecute those things, regularly. But, you know, this is like, if if Trump thought he was telling the truth here and if Trump believed that the election even in good it doesn't even have to be necessarily in good faith. Maybe even just subjectively believed, that the election was stolen or that there was fraud in the election, and that's what that was his platform. You know, you gotta protect that speech and to to criminalize it, in the way they did is, well, first of all, I I'm not Look, I'm no I I haven't done the research, but I would take a guess that nobody has been prosecuted for something similar ever that this is like ballot stuffing type crime that people, like, where people are caught with truckloads of of ballots, you know, sort of like maybe in Michigan where they ended up in somebody's locker. You know, that that might be That's that's what these things are about. It's not like this abstract, you know, let's go let's go fight this election. Right. And then, you know, Trump, I've always said this about this about the challenges. People say, well, he tried to disenfranchise the entire country. I was like, oh, b s. He went to court and he lost. He went to Cortney law. You know, that what would you what, like, that's and you could say he should know if they were frivolous and maybe some of them were maybe some of them weren't. Maybe they jumped the gun. Maybe they were ideal logs who had, extreme theories, they believed, but we're wrong. Maybe some of them even didn't believe him, but, look, if you're gonna paying lawyers for going to champion cause it in court that they don't believe in, then, you know, you're gonna get rid of all the lawyers.
Brett Johnson [:You know, I would I would think it'd be you know Another Shakespeare reference, first kill all lawyers. Yeah. Exactly. Rather than go after what he says, when I go after, which they are, though, after actions. Yeah. Right. What did he okay. He said this publicly, but he did this, though. He did this. He did. And it's And and we've talked about those. Yeah. Right. You know, that he did that. And then then let's let's look at the the the value of those actions versus words. What what And and say if were the actions wrong? The problem of political indictable. Yes. the the problem politically speaking though is gonna be this is an indictment in DC, and this is one of those where it
Steve Palmer [:matters. where your jury pool is coming from. The whole good time. Yeah. You know, if you put twelve folks in the box that hate trump, he's gonna get convicted. He'll get convicted of of, you know, whatever. They don't care. Right. and I've been in situations like that, several times in in a courtroom where you just know that you've got a good defense, but it ain't gonna work where you are. And we talked about this a little bit with Derek Chauvin last week or a couple weeks ago about his appeal that, you know, this is one of those where that matters. Like, if you indict the same case in Ohio, or in, you know, pick a different state. Well well well, like, the doc of the documents case down in Miami. Right? That's a perfect exam. Yeah. That that might get different play down there. That's right. And then, you know, the other thing that offends me, not even irrespective of whether it's Trump or whoever. is you get this AUSA up there on his pulpit slamming down his fist saying we demand a speedy trial, and we went fast justice after they investigated for two two and a half years. Yeah. and shame on him for that. You know, a norm you and I have actually debated about this a little bit about what kind of time it takes to put together a meaningful criminal defense. Like, we on the criminal defense side don't have an FBI. We don't have, like, 100 of staffers to say, hey. Look. Hey. Can you go dissect all these statements and and get them organized for me? Like, no. That that falls on us. And at the same time, on the private sector, we have other cases too. So to say that they're gonna get this thing ready to go in 90 days, No way. Is and if the judge forces that hand, it will get reversed. You can't you can't if you you can't do it. And the and the the same prosecutor
Norm Murdock [:that Steve is referencing this Jack Smith guy. He admitted just, this past week that he did not fully disclose. What is it? The Brady a thing where you've gotta disclose everything that is exculpating. Yeah. Pretty versus Maryland. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. And he didn't he said, oh, whoops. We didn't give them all the video. so, you know, of the of the trump man -- Of J 6 stuff. Yeah. Uh-uh. We were down in down in the Florida. Florida thing. Yeah. Yeah. That that that we did not give them all the video of the FBI cert. So, you know, it's interesting that it's coming up the way it's coming up because
Steve Palmer [:the case law on this all goes back to due process of law. You know, this 14th a lot of this a lot of this is sort of on the heels of the anti slavery amendments. Yeah. you know, 13, 14, 15, 16, I think 16. but, you know, under the due process clause in in in federal court, if it's direct in federal court, it'd be the 5th Amendment. you have a right to a fair trial. You have a right to to be treated with due process alone. That has been interpreted to mean you have a right to present a meaningful defense, and that means you have to have an opportunity to present a meaningful defense at a trial. where you have, where you're not hamstrung by bad government policy. And all these cases, like, there's there's old case law that comes out, like in Ray Winship, You know, you could even go back as far as, you know, there's like Davis versus a lot. There's there's a bunch of cases. A lot of them came out of south. and they came out south because of unfair prosecutions on minorities on black folks down there under the Jim Crow, type of prosecutions where they would just they say, alright. We don't care. you know, mister black guy charge a crime. You're going to trial next week, and we don't you're not even gonna get a lawyer. Yeah. And it's funny to hear this AUSA almost in the from the opposite angle. Yeah. Yeah. We're gonna rush this through. Yeah. rush this through. Right. And look, and and it's so painfully obvious why they wanna rush it through. Absolutely. Because the man's running for present and and look at it from a bigger picture, Trump has got a defense going right or wrong. He's defending 4 different cases now. I think 40 plus indictments
Norm Murdock [:separate
Steve Palmer [:charges. Yeah. Charges. But he's got 4 different cases. Yeah. And the 4 different cases. because he got Georgia coming. He's got New York now, and he's or we think George is coming. We've got Florida. And then it'll be it'll be like 50 charges. So and they wanna when that happens. So imagine the resources necessary to defend those cases. And then saying in DC, we're gonna drop an indictment, put you on trial 90 days. Yeah. And probably one of the I think how many witnesses there are. Well, the one one of the Trump defense attorneys on these Jan 6 things said one of their strategies.
Norm Murdock [: defense. All Dinesh D'Souza's: Steve Palmer [:the ex checker, Jay. You know, he he was on this, and he's like, this stuff will never come out this stuff. Never. I said, you know, Look, if there was actual fraud, if the machines were rigged, if any of that happened, let look, lawyers are lawyers work for money and, you know, we're a bunch of chills for for the cause of money, but, you know, that's a pretty powerful motivating force. And, you know, I I hadn't really thought about it at the time. I was thinking, like, in the in the course of civil litigation, you would use depositions and civil discovery to get stuff. But now I texted him the other day to to, your point here, Norm, which is I said, you know, if I were representing Trump, we have something called the compulsory process clause of the 6th Amendment. And, you know, the 6 amendment says you have a right to a trial by jury. You have a right to confront your accusers. You have a right to compulsory process. And what that means is, subpoena power. Everybody and their mother would be getting a subpoena about this crap. Oh, big time. I would be the Biden White House would be getting subpoenas about the what they did to orchestrate this. I would wanna know why the National Guard wasn't deployed that day. I would wanna, like, it it would be game on game records requests, subpoenas,
Norm Murdock [:everything. Right. And I would and it is coming out. It's I mean, the his his lawyers are just gonna hammer all of the fraud that they can be. Even if it's not proven, it's it's proof that somebody would rightfully question
Steve Palmer [:he asked, they have to this is one of those where and I I've heard commentators get this wrong. They say any it was actually, I think Shapiro says a lot. You know, you can never prove anything that requires, intent out of Trump because, you know, he's he's he's an he always believes it. He's sort of wrong about that most of the time because intent in criminal law doesn't mean that you intended the ultimate consequence. You have to the the mental element usually is related to the action. So my intent is to swing my arm, not break your nose. Yeah. There's a subtle difference in in in criminal philosophy, but it it it exists. There's some exceptions. And this may be one where, like, self defense is 1 too where you have a reasonable and honest belief that your life's in danger, you can use self defense. Yeah. So now it matters what Trump thinks. And and this is one where if he believed that, that there was fraud, right, you can't prosecute him for
Brett Johnson [:acting on that. Yeah. So so it's gonna it's gonna say and now my mind goes this way. So let's let's say the man just absorbed every bit of information around him. That's right. And he had a question. Let's say he had bad players around him. You bet bad advice. bad advice. The news media feeding him this crap every day. If if, you know, Fox I I don't mean crap. I should, you know, the the misinformation or truth, whatever it is. So so the man that man is yeah. Okay. Let's put it under the tree. And he's absorbing this every day that he's just a shill in this whole thing. We'll we'll be elected. You could look he could he could be proven that. You could. because of it. He is just a victim of it. He's a victim. This is a all of this that he had no time to research it. He's just absorbing and maybe by design.
Norm Murdock [: ecently got completed here in: Brett Johnson [:Yeah. I mean, and and and and we know that Fox News was -- Oh, I don't know. -- his his resource for news. Now you know, the other the other I'm I'm I'm I'm not I'm just trying to give him a benefit to the doubt that he could be a sponge I don't think so. This is extreme. This is extreme was pushing stuff. Trump was so this is, you know, on the one hand, you're correct. On the other hand, you know, you can't have selective Yeah.
Norm Murdock [: d we saw the we saw the movie: Steve Palmer [:Pence did not have authority to change this election in Congress that day. You know, and and there was this push. A lot of people are saying, well, he's got the constitutional authority. He says, like, Yeah. Not really. It's fuzzy. It wasn't even fuzzy. The answer is no. Well, no. No. It it the constitution doesn't say the vice president can throw out that but it does say he shall count the votes.
Norm Murdock [:So it is a little fuzzy. And I've heard constitutional argument. That's right. you know, how does he count the votes? does he count votes as legit, non legit?
Steve Palmer [: people don't remember back in: Norm Murdock [:when Hillary lost to Trump. Well, plus that. Right. Right? that there were Democrats calling for the electors to violate their pledge and their promise to vote it. That's right. So the very thing that Trump was asking electors to do change their votes, right, this so called conspiracy.
Steve Palmer [:It was okay when the Democrats did it. Well and we spent 4 years or three and a half years. Was it three and a half of the Russia hoax? where the there was this allegation of Russian collusion with Trump, and it's like, it was complete utter nonsense.
Norm Murdock [:But in the election, but in the election, in the election context, which is what this January says. You're correct. The the you do not wanna certify the electoral college. So Al Al Gore took his argument all the way to the Supreme Court, Hillary and, Stacey Abrams never conceded their 2 elections, right? The the governorship Georgia and Hillary running for president. She never conceded. Her book say the election was stolen from her. Yep. You know, basically all the same verbiage that Trump used,
Steve Palmer [:they used, but it somehow it doesn't count. on prosecute trump port. This is a bad look. You know, this is a really bad look. And, you know, I fear that Trump is is is in danger in DC on this one. Yeah. And, because it's DC. Yeah. And you know, we'll see how it plays out. We'll see how it plays out. It's we're on a path of almost certain destruction if this doesn't change. So so if we can prosecute our political enemies,
Norm Murdock [:we got problems. So bouncing off this another January 6th story that it this doesn't involve Trump. But yesterday, part of an interview released, now this was aired or this was not this was a an interview that Tucker Carlson had done with the then police chief of the Capitol Police. I think man named Steven Sund. So he was the chief of the Capitol Police on January 6th. He resigned on January 7th. the next day. This is an interview that he did with Tucker that Fox refused to air, and it is now leaking out bit by bit. One of the things he says in the interview to Tucker, this just blows the lid off of the whole thing. He is questioning He he he doesn't say he doesn't come to a conclusion, but he is questioning this police chief, Steven Son, why When he requested things like intelligence before January 6th, he wanted the national guard on station He wanted information from the CIA NSA FBI, all the 3 letter agencies. Is there any credible threat. Do you have any intel about a possible attacks, riots organized mayhem on January 6th? Oh, no. Around the ring around the table, the big conference table, he got no no no no no no no no no we have no intel. It turns out now that they had a shit ton of intel. Right? So he is asking as the police chief of the Capitol Police, who who were blamed, right, for not handling the riot correctly because they opened doors. They let people in. They did what they had to do to try to keep the violence to a minimum. So he he resigned the next day. And now he's questioning, well, wait a minute. It's come out now. Here we are 2 years plus later. all this intel they had, but they didn't want me to act on it. They didn't wanna take action. Is that because they wanted a riot? You know, I mean, is was it a conspiracy to have violence happen on January 6th? That's what the police chief of the Capitol Police is now asking. That's huge. That's huge. And if you don't think if you don't think that's gonna be used in this trial coming up, you know, you're you're But but but that's against Trump, though. No. That's not Because if he knew Nancy Pelosi was in are just like that.
Brett Johnson [:Oh, oh, oh, okay. Okay. I missed the step. I missed the wrong one. I missed the step. No. No. Not this step. This may have come from the White House a request to have national guard. I can't remember. I thought there was. At least we've talked about that here. And I'm trying to remember. And all the experts said, no. No. No. No. We got this handled. You know, DC police have this handled. And You know,
Steve Palmer [:I I I have a saying that that it's not my saying, but they'll you hear it all the times. Like, don't attribute it to malintent, which you can explain with the gross incompetence. this one sort of stretches the bounds out a little bit. You sort of wonder it's like, hold on a second. You you know that January 6th is gonna happen. Why on earth? would you not deploy -- Right. -- the army. You know, it's like, now the other side's gonna say, well, wait a minute. You know, we don't want to have a military state. We don't want to have that kind of security. But I think if they felt I think there's there's an easy world you could create that they would have had those people deployed. And all you have to do is look on January 7th when they put a fence up around the white. And and and for that, most of that year had a fence if they still do. Well -- Man, it's to have a -- Yeah. Yeah. Look at look at all of the spinning and all of the exploitation
Norm Murdock [:of the riot on January 6th that they got out of it. And Nancy Pelosi's note no. They're still milking it. They're still milk. And that'll be the, you know, We've gotta protect the, you know, we gotta protect the nation against, insurrection. I mean, that'll be the big thing coming up this election. that's gonna be, you know, we gotta protect democracy, right, against the Proud Boys and against, you know, right? So they're gonna milk this thing even more this coming election. And to think that Nancy Pelosi couldn't think a couple steps ahead like a chess player. Like, if we don't have really tight policing on January 6th, These Trump people are so pissed off about the election. I'm pretty sure they're gonna do something stupid and they did and she knew that they would. And that's what this police chief is saying. Yeah. Whether she knew is it shouldn't, you know, even though you have to go that far. Or she rolled the dice and just kinda going? Oh, shit. See how it plays out. Yeah. Let's see if they do something. But doesn't we're good if it does? And then we get to and then we get to, and we get to impede Trump a second time, which they did. Which they did. Yeah. Alright. Well You know, and he called this this police chief in the interview said he called for the National Guard right then, right on, and they did not come for another 2 hours. And he's like, really? Yeah. Well, it's
Steve Palmer [: : Norm Murdock [:the standard reading, the standard math, the standard, whatever, And, we're gonna blow it away. It's been a complete utter debacle. Right. A complete debacle. because math is racist and we're gonna teach it a different way. Well, I don't know how you teach math a different way. 2+2 equals 4. Yeah. Whether you're a akklansman or whether you're Jesus. It doesn't matter. 2+2 equals 4. It it can't be racist. I find it racist
Steve Palmer [:to suggest that math is racist. Completely. If you were saying that because of the color of your skin, you are somehow innately incapable of understanding mathematics. That's ridiculous. That's the most racist proposition I've heard long time. Tell that to George Washington Carver or any other African American scientist, you know, Neil De Grass, whatever his name is, that the this. I mean, can can you pass a math class? All of them have. White to pass a damn math class. And and look, what you also so I'm fee I'm a little bit I'm hurt. maybe I need a safe space. Oh, jeez. Because I was terrible at math. So I I am feeling a little bit, compromised here, guys. I had to work my ass off to pass trig. Yeah. I have no question. I could pass Flee or not, I was good at it. I was okay at geometry and trig. Yeah. You got me to, like, the the real math though when you got to -- Calc. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And and most of us, because I have ADHD, and I I we're looking back. I just there's no way I was gonna I looked at that homework, and I just saw these blurry numbers. Mhmm. And I was like, I'm not doing this. Let's go drink. And -- That's why divided by z and -- Yeah. It just -- -- power 10. And -- When I when I got to when I was able to focus on it and then really zero in, it was sort of interesting to me, but only for, like, 20 minutes and I was off again. But, it it I I'm white. In fact, yeah. Right. Right. Right. I mean, and so maybe it's not just your race folks. Maybe certain people are good at math. certain people are better at reading. Some of us are better at art. Some of us are better at science.
Norm Murdock [:We're all individual people, folks. Right. And, you know, well, it is a shame on you, Lebron, for suggesting that your own race isn't as culturally bad at math. Well, it is it has come out I mean, this discussion is very fruitful. So for example, in the Columbus City Schools, which is Ohio's largest population school district, Columbus City Schools, largest school district in the state. They have a 75% graduation rate and you would say, okay, 3 out of 4 graduate, but only 19% pass the math proficiency test. So you gotta ask yourself, Why would you grant why would you give a diploma to the 80% who did 80 more than 80% who cannot be proficient in math? How how are they grant? I mean, there is a disconnect here between you're just you're just releasing these students from the burden of having to learn math so that they're functional citizens out in the world. You are disenfranchising this. You're robbing those students of something they need to know that their Ohio constitution provides that they're being adequate education of every child in Ohio, and the Columbus City Schools are putting out more than 80%
Steve Palmer [:who can't pass the math proficiency. And and look, it's not based on me that statistically you might have more minorities doing poorly in school than than otherwise. And to me, it just I can't accept. That's because of their race. I think, you know, there's there's something else going on, and it's not because of the way it's being taught. It actually might be because of the way it's being taught. But it is Well, it could be all be it can be the atmosphere too. So that just like
Brett Johnson [:exactly. Environment. Well, and just like you said too, how much concentration it takes to do math for some people. A lot of people. Yep. And if you don't have the atmosphere, the culture, to be able to focus on math for, let's say, 20 minutes. Yeah. You're not ever going to pass at that math proficiency test because you can't you can't do it. It because it it takes a lot of brainpower for math. It just does I was just talking to my,
Steve Palmer [:my youngest son who's now sixteen. And, you know, we were talking looking back. He's like, what what did dad do for me? you know, it's one of those kind. What'd you ever do for me? It's like, well, you know what? I can tell you what I didn't do. I didn't just give you ice cream every day. And one of the things I did do is that do you remember sitting on a couch? and I would drill you every day with the multiplication tables. And you had to memorize those things and go into school and be able to recite them. And had I have not done that, he you wouldn't know them. He wouldn't know them. and and it's like that made the difference. Right? Because if you learn that, then you can learn the next thing. And you can learn the next thing. So Steve did what Ben Carson's mother did. Ben Carson's mother had 3 jobs. She scrubbed
Norm Murdock [:floors in the inner city and she had 2 other menial tasks. Never graduated from high school. Never graduated from college. And she raised 1 of America's foremost neurosurgeons, Doctor Ben Carson. Yeah. And what what did he do? Right? And what did the aunts of Thomas Sewell do. They told them
Steve Palmer [:to do just what Steve Palmer told his sons. Sit your ass down and study. Right. And here's some flashcards. Let's go. and that's that's how I learned him as a kid. And, you know, I'm not I'm not taking away. Like, Brett, you're you're making a good point here. It's like there is a cultural problem at home somehow one way not just white. Exactly. White, black, purple, green. It doesn't matter. It just comes down to Not even my so let me let me say the other unpopular thing. k? that's also cultural
Norm Murdock [: of: Steve Palmer [:Yeah. You wanna almost get, like, I wish Bernie Moreno was in mar marina was in here because he would this is what he was getting at with his, how do you fix the college or what what do you really do to help? And it's you don't you can't compromise a curriculum, particularly on the basics. You can't do it. So you can't say we're gonna pass them all even though they can't even though they didn't do the work. You can't do that. No. And at the same time, you have to acknowledge that maybe these kids at home aren't getting the kind of effort that is required in order to meet the curriculum that you've created. Right. So to hurt them. So you have these you have these 2 sort of givens in what instead of dealing with that problem, they've just gotten rid of one of the givens. We're just gonna get rid of the requirement. In that way, you know, they'll just pass and it'll be fine. But that's not good enough. You know, you you, like, you wanna say, alright. How do we address this problem? How do we create a a cooperation with the community? So the kids at home of all colors of all races are doing their math homework or doing the reading homework or doing what they need to do. Right. And and that I think if you actually focused on that, and say it's not racist to focus on that. It's a solution to focus on that. You might come up with some better some better options at work And I'm not saying I got all the answers. I mean, it just is. It seems like you don't you don't get rid of the rules in order to solve the problem. You know, you can't do that. You know, by definition, I guess you get rid of the problem that way, but it still really exists. You've just changed the name of it.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:So -- I agree. I agree. You heard it here first on common sense.
Norm Murdock [:Exactly. Yeah. I'm not sure they're gonna cause all races. You know, one of the, one of the, specific things in the constitution that can lead to impeachment. And it's it's this word is in the constitution. It's bribery. It says bribery and other high crimes and misdemeanors, bribery, bribery, bribery, and that Biden defense So it went from I don't know anything about Hunter's activities. I never participated. I never talked to anybody. It never came up. blah blah blah. We've heard from liar Joe, right? From when he was running for president to, during his presidency, that he knew nothing about it. He didn't participate. He didn't anything. Devin Archer comes along and on Monday and testifies oh, or or Friday. Actually, you attended or participated in 20 plus meetings with Hunter's clients, and it was presented that you're the big guy. You're the Biden brand that we're selling and the fact that hunter in the middle of a meeting could take a call or initiate a call to you or from you, right? Illustrated to these Burisma exact the Chinese execs, the Romanian execs, all these people into Obama's number 2 guy, right, when when a vice Biden was vice president, we've got this inside track. We can do things for you. So whether there was fraud in the inducement or whether it was actual inducement,
Steve Palmer [:whether it was substantive inducement is irrelevant. It's totally irrelevant. If they've the fact is Actually, it makes it worse. He took bribes. It makes it worse. So here's what here's what their defense is now, and the they're being the the sort of the legacy media is saying this that -- Right. Oh, the Republicans don't have anything that that -- if at best, they were only selling the illusion of some sort of collusion with Biden or the illusion of of of, of access to Biden. Right. The problem with that is Biden was letting it happen. And and not only was it letting it happen, I don't know that they it sure looks this way, and I haven't seen the definitive proof yet. It sure looks this way that Biden let it happen and the money landed in his bank account. Yes. And that is so the fact that he deceived the drug dealer to get the to commit the trafficking doesn't change the crime. In fact, it almost makes it a little bit worse. so you're like, you know, you know, who a great a great example, Pete Rose. Right? So his his defense is I never bet against myself. Alright. Well, fine. You still bet on baseball and you can't do it. Right. Right. And so it's no defense. Right. And he never got his head around that. And Biden's they're sort of pushing that same side. Well, you know, he was he was obviously, he was selling Biden's name, but One, Biden didn't know about it, except he did because he had all these calls in in meetings. And 2, he didn't he didn't do anything. Right? Yeah. He and and that still somewhat up in the air because he fired the prosecutor that was investigating Burisma who was employing his son. So, you know, that's a little bit and bragged about it and bragged about it. And at at the uh-uh the council on foreign relations. I'm not gonna make the connection yet. But if I'm def I always look at it. Like, if I had that case in a courtroom, how would I deal with that evidence? That's pretty damning. You know, it's like, yeah. I've sat through plenty of of prosecutions trying to defend cases where you hear that kind of circumstantial evidence you're thinking, boy, that sucks. Yek. Now I gotta come up with some argument here. And what he's coming up with is this hollow nonsense that doesn't really add up. And I if I were prosecuting Biden on this, I would do what what the, what, Woodward and Bernstein did that with Nixon follow the money, you know, for governments that follow the money. Yeah. Right. You know, you gotta follow the money. And and so if Hunter Biden is making millions, where did that money go? And you know what? It's still freaking happening. So I'm sure Brett, you'd like to have one of Hunter Biden's finger paint finger painting. Sure. Come on. Right. Right. Next to the gorilla finger painting in the in the elephant nose painting. You know? Yeah. Hunter Biden's or landing and getting purchased by people who end up with positions under Biden. It's it's it's lunacy. It's lunacy. Yeah. I was like, I look, I, you know, say call what you will at at at the best case scenario if you follow that defense. It's we call that money laundering. the worst, you know, the worst is you're you're taking a bribe. And I I think, again, it's the hypocrisy of this. I always the other thing I always like to do is like, alright, if I if this were Trump, how would it be handled?
Norm Murdock [:Like, what would they say if it were Trump? You know? Sure. It's a I mean, they have they have hunter. I mean, they have him saying, and they've got Biden co located with him saying, hey. I'm sitting right next to -- Right next to him. -- my father. So you got 10 minutes to get this done. Right. Yeah. It's Mister Chinese guy I need this bribe paid, like, right now. I'm waiting if it's not done by the end of business today,
Steve Palmer [:deals off. We're not gonna represent you. I mean, if that isn't participating in a bribery scheme, I don't know what that is. And he's got text to his, I think, his it was his daughter who said, look. I've taken care of the family forever. it's your turn, you know, until you do that. You know, it just is, the whole thing stinks, and it's always bugged me. I've said it if you go all the way back to early, early lawyer talks. It always, I say say the same thing. How are these people millionaires? Like, how are these people millionaires? And and here, if it turns out that is a millionaire. He's got 3 houses. 1 in the, you know, on the coast where it costs more than anything.
Norm Murdock [:I I'd like to know how he got that house. Well, Comer, guy looking into this for Jim and Jim Jordan, they're now up to an estimated 50,000,000 in bribes. And they say basically since they only know a piece of this, it could be as much as a 100,000,000.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. I there's one guy I would not want crawling my backside. That'd be Jim Jordan. I mean, he just is He just he just does it sort of relentlessly. Well, in this this this, this hunting
Norm Murdock [:hunting tomb dog of a congressman, James Comer. I mean, he he has his teeth in Biden's, you know, but -- Yeah. -- it is interesting to me that their first impeachment of Trump was because he made a phone call about this very matter about to to to Zelensky, a congratulatory pay. Glad you won your election. you're the new prime minister of Ukraine. And by the way, I certainly hope you continue to investigate possible bribery by officials here in the United States, to sway your government to do different things. Yep. Okay. And because because it it trump was, I guess, I mean, they they viewed that as, oh, you are you are, you are asking for an investigation of your potential, op opponent in the upcoming presidential election
Steve Palmer [:that's wrong. Right? Well, what is this? Yeah. What is this that you're doing to trump? It is, I guess the the point you're you're making the point I'm trying to make, which is if this is reversed, This would be the biggest case since,
Norm Murdock [:you know, the the Lindbergh kidnapping. And they impeach Trump for asking them to look into it. Yes. Yeah. He's gonna say, find Biden guilty. It's more offensive
Steve Palmer [: ed when it emerged before the: Norm Murdock [: He said in: Steve Palmer [:during the campaign. Yeah. That's so
Norm Murdock [:Man, that's manipulation.
Steve Palmer [:It just it it this is like what you hear in in 3rd world countries with corrupt governments. You know? It's like this is the kind of stuff you hear. It's like It's scary stuff. This is general Noriega. And if Biden can do it, folks, Trump can do it. If trump can do it, the next president can do it. And if the next president can do it, It's probably too late because now the country's down the tubes with corrupt elections. It's like you can't tolerate this. The truth has to it has to emerge. The public deserve to know If the media wanted to break the story, the public deserved to know what the hell was going on with that laptop. Would it have influenced votes? I have no idea. I have no idea if everybody knew about Biden's involvement with Hunter Biden or if this comes out, maybe maybe not. It may not have changed anything, but the fact that it got squelched intentionally makes you wonder. Now it's like, you know, well,
Norm Murdock [:that's where the conspiracies grow. Well, if the American pea people up until recently always believed the IRS, the FBI called balls and strikes. Right? They didn't call balls depending on your political party. We had faith that they were, you know, regardless how they voted, right, personally in their own lives. that if you got audited or if you were pursued or you're subject to a subpoena that that was done in a dispassionate you know, unpolitical
Steve Palmer [:way. Yeah. And the American public now has lost faith. This this this is this is terrible I'm not gonna say it started because I don't I can't say that for sure, but this emerged in very obvious part, during the Obama years. when he started to sick the IRS on on, conservative organizations
Norm Murdock [:when, all of the there's a
Steve Palmer [:And auditing them. Yes. Anybody who's interested, go research the Gibson guitar factory. There there's an interesting story there about we can talk about it at a different time. But, Gibson took a little bit of, took it on the chin, but, go go research that and get the truth behind that story. vaguely vaguely remember that. Yeah. There there's a rule that, like, all of a sudden, guitar makers couldn't import wood from South America.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Which destroyed their business for a while. And they got prosecuted
Steve Palmer [:or the IRS or or what some, some not some agency came down on Gibson because Gibson had a stockpile of old wood that they bought beforehand. I know I I I bumped into this, not intentionally, because I was building I was gonna have a local guitar maker build me a classical guitar, and I couldn't, you know, they had the the new rules on importing wood. Yeah. But,
Norm Murdock [:It's, it's a pretty gross. I think pretty gross abuse of power. I can get you some really nice loblolly pine. Well, no. Thank you. That makes for a shit guitar, frankly. You know, one one thing I know we're tight on time, but one thing that happened very interesting to this entire trump process in Pennsylvania. So Trump was sued by Pennsylvania election officials, and this trial had been proceeding along. They just the the judge in Pennsylvania, federal judge just dismissed a bunch of the charges against Trump. on the theory of a of of executive privilege that while in office for actions committed by a president in office, short of murder, Right? Those kinds of things. Mhmm. But basically, executive privilege covers statements, cover even defamation It covers all the bully pulpit stuff that a president would do while in office. He's allowed to even lie. He's allowed to make up stuff. He's allowed to speculate. He's allowed to do whatever and they threw out these defamation charges against Trump in Pennsylvania just last week. And that that may factor into this January 6th. You know, as a As a constitutional
Steve Palmer [:studying constitutional law back in law school, you would see these sort of historic cases like the Pentagon papers. there is another another sort of, like, the Nixon case. Just interesting stuff. Yeah. and I I sort of I can envision a time, I hope, where our country's still intact and and humming along in about 20 or 30 years when a young law student is reading about these cases these cases that sort of made it up to the US Supreme Court and were decided because it's like an opening. One of the things that always fascinated me or that really drew me in about the legal education was that This notion that, you know, the legal system in our country sort of reflects society and society reflects the legal system, and it's not always one way or another. It's sometimes both at the same time. And you it's like a it's like this little looking glass into history when you read these cases. and, you know, go back and read some of these cases and you can sort of put yourself in the moment. Like, what was the Pentagon papers really all about? And in, you know, it's it's it's still has merit today as we talk about whistleblowerers and people, the the stealing doc or, you know, it's a leaking documents and and leaking information. we're we're dredging that we're still on that same ground, except now it's with Trump. It it really is, it's really fascinating. And I think looking forward, hopefully knock on wood, we still have a system similar to what we should have And,
Brett Johnson [:these will just be academic debates in 20 or 30 years. Yeah. This will be a course number at some university in 20 years. Yeah. It will be all old. The trump cases. I well, let's hope it is. Yeah. secret just for just for a day. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. We got a special election on Tuesday. Make sure you go out and vote. Yep. Yep. Ignore all ads.
Steve Palmer [:Research. Research what it is. Research what it is. Ignore the ads. Right. It's not just about abortion. It's not. It there's more to it than that. And if if you're good with that and you're not good. Like,
Brett Johnson [:don't don't base it on that because there and just to go on a little bit on that, you with the with the abortion, it has that what you always say. We well, we gotta go do we gotta do something. We gotta do something. Yeah. And that's that to me feels that's not a reason for this. It's it's There are a lot of other things. There are a lot of and and I know I'm the only one that probably the only one at the table I'm gonna vote now. I'm gonna publicly say. I think you guys are going yes, but I have my reasons. Yep. And and I your your reasons are valid too. And Norman and I have debated about this. in opposite, I think going back even long before any of this can't emerge where I always say it should be harder to change a constitution.
Steve Palmer [:than not. You know, it's like the the the otherwise, you end up using the Constitution as a second general assembly or a separate statutory scheme, and it and it shouldn't be. I I I hate that
Brett Johnson [: revised constitution back in: Steve Palmer [:influence. I just like, it's a point to think about. I I I I am going to always vote in favor of making it harder to amend a foundational document than not. And if this is only an incremental step in that direction, so be it at least it's one step And I am sorry, and I hate it that somehow abortion landed now. I know. In the middle of this. It it it it it shouldn't have. but it did. So that's how it's sort of like when Bernie was using it. Yeah. It's too bad that that's how it's pitched, but that's what it is. I don't think it's gonna pass. I think most people are gonna vote no in Ohio. I'm gonna vote for for the reasons I said. Yeah. And and I I it's funny because I said this month and month last year. We're even before any of this emerged, I I would say should not amend the constitution for this kind of nonsense. I think we were talking about, I forget if it would maybe vape or maybe something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like that it's not constitutional men, folks, it's a law. And and the state will survive with whatever we decide. Yeah. That's not gonna take it. It's not. No. Exactly. Exactly. Yep. Anyway, well, with that, we're gonna wrap it up. It is common sense, Ohio coming at you right here from channel 511. know, if you wanna be a sponsor, we've got a couple that are lined up. I know I've threatened this. We've got spaces created and, I've got somebody who is, gonna start very, very soon. If you wanna be a sponsor, you can do that too. Just look up common senseiosho.com. If you want us to talk about something, guess where common senseiosho.com. if you want to read norm Norm's blog, which I highly recommend that you do and Brett's blog same. Mine will be a quick read, but you can go check that out too. It doesn't exist. common senseohioshow.com, where we are coming at you right from the middle each and every week at least until now.
