Shownotes
This week's episode features an intimate and thought-provoking conversation with the remarkable Marissa from Tanbrown Coffee in Atlanta.
🌟 Episode Highlights:
- Get to know Marissa, a trailblazer in the coffee industry, and the force behind Tanbrown Coffee, renowned for sourcing and roasting exceptional Asian coffees. Discover the inspirations and challenges that have shaped their journey.
- They dive into the Brewers Cup 2023 experience—preparation, competitions, and the strive for diversity and representation in the coffee competition space.
- Elena and Marissa candidly discuss the nuances of being people of color in a predominantly white industry and share personal anecdotes of facing microaggressions.
- Reconnect with your roots, as they explore the significance of cultural identity and representation in the coffee community.
- Join the conversation on the importance of accessible education in the craft of coffee roasting and brewing practices.
- Discover the profound impact that investing in women producers can have on communities.
- Delve into "hot takes" on the coffee industry, from the home brewing culture to the importance of fostering a supportive barista community.
P.S. We love hearing from our listeners! Give us your thoughts, questions, or suggestions for future episodes on IG.
Memorable Moments
00:00 Struggling to receive help learning about coffee.
08:36 Appreciates design, found new career path. Hated corporate.
10:40 Barista work provided unexpected value over design.
15:58 Encounter fueled anger, but the industry was empowering.
23:08 Aesthetics can be a barrier, but important.
31:19 Advocated for waitlist, practiced for Brewer's Cup.
36:04 Competing in coffee competition with a twist.
40:56 Advocating for diversity and opportunity in competitions.
44:34 Engaged with coffee community during pandemic.
49:35 Not close to parents, cultural connection struggle.
58:54 Discovering favorite Congolese coffee through regular tastings.
01:06:16 Promoting inclusivity and representation in the coffee industry.
01:10:55 Passionate about Yemeni coffees and community representation.
01:19:47 Enthusiastic praise for Brewer's Cup and community.
TLDR
1. Representation Matters: Both emphasize the importance of diversity and inclusivity in the coffee industry, with a specific focus on giving visibility and support to Arab and queer Arab communities, as well as addressing the underrepresentation of Asian coffees and producers.
2. Rising Above Discrimination: Stories from both highlight the need to confront and overcome the microaggressions and stereotypical questions based on ethnicity that are prevalent within the industry, and the motivational drive to create a safe and welcoming space for marginalized communities.
3. The Financial Hurdles of Competition: Their experience in the Brewers Cup illustrates the significant financial and resource-based challenges faced by competitors, especially those from underrepresented and under-resourced communities.
4. Authentic Community Engagement: Discussing the importance of genuinely reaching out to others in the coffee community without the immediate intent of turning relationships into business opportunities is a valuable takeaway for enhancing true communal support.
5. Perseverance and Skill Recognition: There's an emphasis on the desire for individuals to be acknowledged for their professional skills in coffee without being pigeonholed by ethnic or cultural stereotypes.
6. Sustainable Business Growth: Both advocate for responsible and slow business growth that ensures partnerships are aligned with core values and contribute to steady progression without reliance on substantial outside investment.
7. The Role of Women in Coffee Production: The positive impact that women producers can have on their communities is acknowledged, and Elena's sourcing of coffee exclusively from women-owned and -produced sources exemplifies an active choice to support that impact.
8. Education and Skill Sharing: They raise concerns about a lack of understanding in brew theory among new entrants to the market, while the episode also presents the need for more sharing and knowledge-building within the coffee community.
9. Resisting Gatekeeping: The creation of Tanbrown Coffee serves as an example of breaking through the gatekeeping often encountered in the specialty coffee roasting industry, inspiring others to pursue their passions without asking for permission.
10. Support Within Diverse Identities: The episode highlights the value found in shared experiences among first and second-generation individuals, reflecting the diversity within communities and the importance of finding validation and strength in those commonalities.
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2024 Best Podcast Nominations
*Best DIY Podcast Finalist - The Ambies, Awards For Excellence in Audio - The Podcast Academy
*Best Coffee Podcast Finalist - The Sprudgie Awards, Honoring The Very Best in Coffee - Sprudge, The Worldwide Leader In Coffee News
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Copyright 2024 Elena Mahmood
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Transcripts
Welcome to the show.
Mar C [:Thank you.
Elena [:I'm glad that you're here.
Mar C [:Thank you for having me and, like, reaching out.
Elena [:Yeah. Of course. I feel like at this point, I'm I'm creating this, like, Collective of people who are, at this point, gonna know each other.
Mar C [:Oh, yeah.
Elena [:You know you knew Maxi and Hyacinth?
Mar C [:Oh, yeah.
Elena [:Yeah. So it's just like, oh, okay. So it's just gonna be a whole family. That'll be fun.
Mar C [:It'll be really fun.
Elena [:So go ahead and just, like, take a second to just, like, introduce yourself to the people listening.
Mar C [:Okay. Okay. So we I'm like, oh my gosh. What do I do? Okay. So my name is, Marissa. I go by Mar. My pronouns are they, she, and I am based out of Atlanta, Georgia. I own a small business, roasting business called Tanbrown Coffee, and we focus very heavily on sourcing and roasting Asian coffees.
Mar C [:It was something that When I was working as a barista, I definitely didn't see a lot of, Asian coffees represented on Specialty shelves, and I was
Elena [:Right.
Mar C [:Like, met with a lot of feedback of, oh, well, it's just not good enough. And I would ask the question of why, because if It's not good enough, then why is it in every single blend? Right? Yeah. But not yeah. So it was something that really resonated with me, and I started hand brown coffee. And, yeah, I just bounced around here and there doing other, like, coffee community kind of things. And, I don't know. Especially when I especially when it comes to, like, competitions and stuff, I really like being on the behind the scenes side, whether it be, like, coaching or judging or, like, doing that kind of stuff. So it's been really fun.
Elena [:Yeah. I was, like, super interested in learning more about Tanned Brown Coffee. I was, like, I don't see a lot of people doing that, and it's awesome that you started That kind of community for yourself and legacy of kinda highlighting Asian voices as well.
Mar C [:Oh, yeah. So I think, like, I got really excited to do tan brown coffee, when I I don't know. It kinda just started as a project. Partially because, I had always wanted to learn how to roast. But when I would reach out to people to ask more about, Like, how do you roast? How do you do this? How do you whatever. It's a really gate capped kind of skill for seemingly no reason. It's literally Cooking. Like and if you know how to cook, you can learn how to roast.
Mar C [:And if you know how to taste things, you can learn how to roast. Right. But I think I didn't know that at the time or had, like, more ownership over that kind of concept. So I would ask a lot of people locally, a lot of cis men. Just like, can you help me with this? And I would be met with a lot of like, oh, no. You have to work for us if, You want to learn this skill or, like, people be kinda creepy to me, and I'm like, but I'm not really about that. Like, I just genuinely want to learn about coffee, and I want to learn, like, more about these skills. I'm a really analytical person.
Mar C [:This Seemed kinda nerdy and fun. So Right. Yeah. That's all I really wanted to do, but then I think, I didn't really see that. So then I did or I my entrance into roasting was kind of, like, Through Glittercat Yeah. Which is no longer, but it was a very beautiful thing. And that's how also I met Haya, through Glittercat. We did the digitation.
Mar C [:So during when There was more, like, quarantine kind of times. Yeah. We, yeah, there were just, like, the individual competitions and things like that. And I applied for roasting because I didn't know anything about it, and I thought it would be a really good opportunity to learn. And it really was. We use, like, these real like, these handheld kinda, like, pan roasting kind of things over the stove. Like, old
Elena [:school right there.
Mar C [:Yeah. Like, old Cool. Because, I mean, like, you can't, like, send all these people, like, roasters. Right? So we had to learn the concepts, but I think it really helped me understand more about, like, applying heat and doing these types of things. And it also kind of demystified roasting as a concept for me. It made it a lot more accessible.
Elena [:How did you feel when you, like, finally got to Roasting? Did you feel like it was, like, anticlimactic? Or it was it, like, This is the nerdy, like, wonder that I wanted it to be.
Mar C [:I love it. I think it's so fun. I think it's because there's a level of, like, simplicity in it, As well as, like it is kind of anticlimactic once you're doing it. Because you're just like, oh, these beans go in here, and then they come out, and then It's like, okay. Cool. Yeah. But then at the same time, I think what's so neat about it is there are different levels of, like, control and nuance. And I I've always just been someone who really appreciates like, I really love like, my favorite things are roasting and brewing.
Mar C [:And, like, I they're so I feel like you can zoom in very, like, pointedly at really, Like, weird and nuanced things. Yeah. And I think it's really beautiful. And I think also, like, being someone who really likes, like, poetry and, like, overly romanticize certain things. I'm like Yeah. So can really relate. Beautiful. Like, it just makes my heart, like, be so
Elena [:I know that's funny. I really relate to that. On a very like, Basically, I'm also into poetry and really into, like, romanticism literature in general. But, I really agree with the fact that, like, Once you have this idea of roasting, it seems really like, oh, I'm gonna roast coffee, and I'm really good
Mar C [:at it. And I'm gonna make, like, Break coffee beans, and then I'm just gonna tell a story of how I made these coffee beans. And then you
Elena [:actually just get to it, and you're like, oh, you're just, like, watching a screen.
Mar C [:Yeah.
Elena [:But when you're talking about, like, the the constant variables you have to control and how that actually alters the coffee, Like, a few seconds or, like, 20 seconds can make a difference on the mire time, or, like, having a longer percentage for a development phase, like, Completely changes, like, the body, and, like, if you want something, like, more acidic like, it feels like it is cooking, like you said. You have complete motor control over that gas valve, so you're basically, like, Let me see. Do I want this? Do I want that? And then that's my favorite part roasting. It's just, like, when you can, like, just also deal with those little details, and then you cup them, And they're all
Mar C [:like shit.
Elena [:Like, all I did was just let this go longer. I had this go shorter, or I ended this hotter, or I ended this cooler.
Mar C [:Yeah. I love that part. And I think what's kinda cool about that too is a lot of the times, those won't be noticed from roast to roast if you're not cupping them next to each other.
Elena [:Yeah.
Mar C [:Which I think is kind of it's it takes the pressure off in some degrees because not every roast is gonna be exactly exactly the same.
Elena [:Right.
Mar C [:And not every coffee is gonna be exactly exactly the same. So I think that there I think there's a beauty of being able to, like, zoom in then zoom out and then put more of an analytical view on it and then be able to kind of be okay with whatever happens, you know? Yeah. And I really, really enjoy and love that.
Elena [:So what got you started in your coffee journey?
Mar C [:Did you also start off as a barista? So or was it like,
Elena [:did you wanna be in coffee? I know I I feel like you've asked this question a few times, and it's like, I always feel like coffee is never the first stop for a lot of people.
Mar C [:Yeah. I've always loved coffee, and I think so my background before before coffee was, industrial design and design work. Wow. Yeah. And so that's what I was, like, Studying in school, and that was what I was interested in. And actually so funnily enough, like, I would always propose, like, coffee and tea based, like, projects within, like, When I was in that kind of setting and then For shadow. Yeah. And I was like, okay.
Mar C [:It's because it gets me through, like, the day or whatever. I really like the taste, But then, during that time, I also from the design background, I really, appreciate intention a lot. And then I was like, Oh, like, there's you're pouring water onto this thing, and I knew nothing about it. I knew nothing, like, how it worked, but I would watch people do it, and I thought it was so cool, and I thought I would never be able to do any of it. But then I think, once I was out of school, I was working, like, one of my first, like, actual corporate jobs. I had worked in, like, retail and food service before then, but then when I was working, like, a corporate role, I actually really hated it. I was, like, in a basement. My manager, I could just have basement.
Mar C [:Yeah. Like, it was it was, like, in a fucking basement. Oh, am I allowed to curse? I'm so sorry. Yeah. Yeah.
Elena [:Yeah. Yeah. You're good.
Mar C [:Yeah. No. It was, like, in a fucking basement, And, like, it was for this plumbing supply company, and it was so strange because, like, I don't I was doing, like, service Design and, I don't know. That part was fine, but I would be forced to be in the office even if my supervisors weren't there and if it I had worked that, like, I'd already finished. Like, it was just very strange structurally. So, I just, like, really hated it, but the only thing in that office that interested me was the was the Chemex. They had 1 in the office, And I would just watch people brew with it in the morning, and I was like, wow. It's so cool.
Mar C [:And we would taste coffees and things like that. And, like, I had already had kinda, like, the the intro into specialty. I didn't really know, like, the background, but I also knew that coffee could taste different, and I Was fascinated by that. So it was something where, I actually got really depressed in that debacle. But then at the end, my very last day, I was like, I'm going to be a barista, and I had already applied and stuff like that. So my last day there was my 1st day at, coffee job. And I'd already started kind of, like, doing, like, nerdy research beforehand and, like, home brewing and, like, doing all this stuff. And I was like, oh my gosh.
Mar C [:Yes. And then so For a little while, I was working on the floor as a barista part time and then doing other part time design work just to kinda see where I wanted to go. But then I realized that, everything that I wanted value wise out of a design role was actually something that I found in coffee. And I think part of that is, like, being able to see big systems where, like, working on the floor, you are working, Like and you're doing a lot of things behind the scenes that people don't see. But then if they go wrong, everything goes wrong, and then the customer can, like, totally see it. But for the most part, they're like, You're you could be doing dishes at the same time as, like, brewing a new pot of coffee at the same time as restocking something and, like, pulling a shot. Like, There's, like, 20 of the 1,000,000
Elena [:It's the art of multitasking as fans. Yeah. Like, in the service industry specifically, but as a barista also.
Mar C [:It's So it's so fun. But then I'm like, if something like, I think the beauty of it, I was like, oh, that can all be happening while you're having this interaction with a customer, And they have no idea. They have no idea what's going on. They don't know, and it's like a show. And so I think seeing those systems, but then you're also creating, Like, a product that ends up being able to serve someone else. Like, I think it's very, like, communal and human centric,
Elena [:and that
Mar C [:was something that I really wanted out of, like, work and life, and I'm, someone who values, like, community and community focused things Very heavily. So I think once I found that, like, alignment with the creative and, social aspects as well as, like, Community focused, like, local and national and international. Mhmm. It's just I feel like I can just constantly learn. And I was just in it. Yeah.
Elena [:So yeah. You really started from, like, Really having a natural curiosity towards just, like, coffee on a simple level, and then you wanted to learn more. And now it's kinda transformed into what it is now, which is kinda awesome. It's also, like, little tidbits here and there. There was coffee constantly, like, Edging you to get there. So I really like that. So what led you to How did you get about, like, building, like, tan brown coffee?
Mar C [:Building it, I was I'm like, is it actually just revenge and angst and anger? Maybe. I think I actually noticed a lot Of being like, working on the floor, I was, like, one of the only, like, like, Asian, Asian people in my team, or just person of color, like, on my team.
Elena [:Yeah.
Mar C [:Very frequently. Actually, it wasn't always like that. When I first started in in coffee, like, I was very fortunate because my team was predominantly, like, people of color, and people who just, like, hold marginalized identities, and that was something that I was like, wow. This is so nice. Blah blah blah. But as, Like, over time, people get burnt out and they get tired and it's Yeah. A good statement. So people just leave.
Mar C [:Right? And so I noticed at a point in time where I was like, oh, I am, like, the only person of color on my team. And it was very present and it was very And I realized too that I have never ever worked on a team with that many white people before. Just like even growing up, like, It was it was very strange. I was like, I've never been in this environment. I never knew how pressing it feels.
Elena [:Mhmm.
Mar C [:And so I think even Being met with knowing that when and seeing, like, microaggressions in terms of, like, if I knew that I was gonna get tipped if I was quiet and fast, right, versus, like, having a A bantering conversation with someone, and I love talking to people. Right? Right. But people really just only cared if I was quiet and fast. So I became, like, the fastest barista on my team. Mhmm. And, like, I love workflow. It's really fun, but it was something where I I noticed that and it was interesting. Thing.
Mar C [:But I think that coupled with then, like, I, was trying to do design work for Like, freelance design work for different shops and stuff like that. And so for one of them and they had their own roastery, like, whatever, but They were asking for labels, but the first question I was asked when I would I met the owner was were you the classic, where are you from? And I was like a
Elena [:question of, what are you?
Mar C [:What are you? But it was like, though, where are you from? And then I was like, Atlanta. And then they he was
Elena [:like, no. Really?
Mar C [:Where where we from? Yeah. Yeah. The classic. And I'm just like, bro, this is so played out and so old. And, like, He we we went back and forth, and I've answered this question so many times. It was, like, maybe 5 rounds of it before he said, you know what I'm trying to ask you. And I looked at him and I said, If you're trying to ask my ethnicity, I'm Korean American.
Elena [:There you go.
Mar C [:But that has nothing to do with this conversation.
Elena [:Right.
Mar C [:And then he met me with, oh, well, I lived in Singapore for some time. And I was like, I don't give 2 shits about that. That does not have anything to do with what this is. And that actually fueled me with so much rage Rage. And anger. And so it was actually fascinating because that was the same time that, I was participating in the Digitition. So I was surrounded by a space that was so so I was surrounded by a space that was so welcoming, that was so, like, empowering too to be, like, take up space in this industry. Like, you deserve a seat at the table.
Mar C [:Right. Or we're building our own fucking table. Right? Right. So we have that, and then I met with this man just being, being who he is Mhmm. Right, and making me feel small. And I was like, I I can't do this. I am going to build my own thing, because if this man can have a roastery and he cannot care about the coffee, not care about where it comes from, not care about the people who he's working with, Mhmm. And has never worked in coffee in his life, then I can do it, and I can do it better.
Mar C [:And what does, like, what does better look like a lot of times? And I'm like, better looks different to, Right. Different people. Like, am I still small? Like, I'm a micro, micro, micro business. Like, that's fine, but I wanna be able to build something that is not harming people in the process. Mhmm. Right? And so I think, like
Elena [:Yeah.
Mar C [:It's just been taking a lot of time and care, but I definitely have seen a lot of, like, My drive to do things. A lot of times, I'm like, is this anger? Is this revenge? Maybe.
Elena [:Sometimes, the best fuel is redemption. I think, like, to kinda, like, Combine all of that energy. I think a lot of what it is is, like, okay, so everybody has this stigma. They have this stereotype, and they have this depiction of what I'm supposed to be. What I'm going to do is I'm going to bring a bunch of people that are like me, and we're just gonna prove you wrong. Yeah. We're gonna do it in a space that's safe and welcoming because you've experienced both ends. And, like, for somebody who's Arab American and has Never seen Arabs as baristas or roasters or Yeah.
Elena [:Even importers. It's It's nice to know that other communities that are in the, like, the people of color and, like, the queer community making space so that Other people who are looking for that community, because there are people that are looking for communities like yours, to feel like They have a place to kinda belong and not have to deal with the microaggressions or the discrimination in in in the workforce that people don't Get to, like, really highlight.
Mar C [:Mhmm.
Elena [:I got so filled with rage, which is why I said that at the same time because I was, like, man, have I had the same exact Conversations with women and men. Yes. Mostly white people. Yes. Where it's always the same Fucking thing. You it's like, okay. What are you? And then I play the game. I'm like, let me see if they'll actually know how to ask that question correctly.
Elena [:Never do. And then it goes into, well, I'm Arab American. They're like, which Arab are you? I tell them, and they're like, oh, so It it can go either 2 ways. It'd be like,
Mar C [:oh, so, like, are you related to Osama Bin Laden? Oh my god. Or, So do you have bombs? Oh my god. Does that family, like, have bombs in their house? Yeah. I get the, are you North or South Korean? And I'm like One of
Elena [:my best friends is Korean. So, like, her and I, we just talk about this shit all the time.
Mar C [:It's like I'm like, y'all need to be more creative with your racism or, like, not at all. I mean, like, that that's like a joke.
Elena [:Just, like, don't do it.
Mar C [:But I
Elena [:mean, like, that's sadly, like, the the way of being A nonwhite majority of, like, you kinda have to, like, build this steel shield around you that you get used to this kind of, like, You just get used to this treatment. But, like, I just want it late because it always no matter what Your ethnicity is Mhmm. Or your nationality. In America, it's so common if you are not a specific type of majority that you are basically asked these, like, preliminary discriminatory questions, and it's so fucking frustrating. Because We
Mar C [:because it shouldn't be like I I shouldn't have to show up in a space, and you shouldn't have to show up in a space having your hyphenate Hyphenated identities be what precedes you.
Elena [:Right.
Mar C [:Like, you should be like, we should be able to show up and be able to just be like, oh, I am a coffee professional, Or I am, like, who like, I am who I am, and no one have to ask questions about it. Yeah. Like, I should not only be celebrated during May. Right. Well, you know? Like, there there are things where I look at it and I'm just like, I don't wanna just be seen as a good Asian, like, coffee professional. I wanna be seen as a good coffee professional. Right?
Elena [:Right. Period.
Mar C [:That's it.
Elena [:Yeah. Honestly. So where is pan brown coffee now? Like, how did you build that actually? Like, how did well, we got the origin story. So, like, where did it get to the point where you're, like, okay, I'm finally gonna start the motion of, like, Building this business for people and myself.
Mar C [:Yeah. So I originally started with a friend, and he he eventually, like, left, because, he wanted to pursue music. And it it was just not, like, his first thing, which I would totally respect, and so we're on good terms. We we talked, and we shared a meal, and we're like, let's do this thing. And I was like, great. I had, like, half a bag of coffee left over from, Like, a project, and I was like, we're just gonna start, because I had, like, a I had taken a lot of the the mud like, I had saved for a really long time for just like a small baby roaster. And I was like, we're just gonna do this. It's with, like, a Quest Quest m 6.
Mar C [:So Slightly bigger than the Quest m three, so not like a half pound, like, capacity. Yeah. But, you know, it's just like a pound roast. We're just, I set it up in my apartment to where the venting went out the window. And I was like, we're just gonna do it. Right? And I I was actually Talking to someone about this the other day too because I was like, I realized that I saved so much money in the beginning because I knew how to do design work and logo, like, work and branding. And I've done background in my social media stuff before. And I think that people don't realize How much money, like, goes into, like, the marketing side of things, unfortunately.
Mar C [:Right? Like, I really wish That aesthetics and things like that were not as big of a a barrier Yeah. To getting into Something, but, like, I also know that having a reputable brand, whatever that may be, like, ends up, allowing people to, come through and, like, being able to express, like, what you're trying to express, I guess. And so something that I realized, I was like, oh, I saved so much money because I put so much time into, like, doing all of it myself, and I was exhausted. But I was like, it will I'll be able to figure this out later. So went with something that ended up, like, working. We came up with the name kind of, like, on the fly. We were talking, And it was like, how we want this to feel. Right? And we were coming up with different, like oh, yeah.
Mar C [:We wanted to feel, like, warm and welcoming and playful and nostalgic and, like, those types of things. And then we were like, what are colors that, like, kind of Reminisce that type of thing. And we were like, we like these, like, soft, like, primary colors, but we also like maybe tan, maybe brown. And then we, like, looked at each other. We were like, tan, brown. And we were like, wait. We're tan and brown. Coffee's tan and brown.
Mar C [:This works. Like, this works. And also it's just, like, to pay homage to the fact that, like, Coffee. We are focusing on Asian coffee, and that's, like, what the producer look like as well. So I don't know. We thought it was funny. It was just, like, funny. So we were just like, let's do it.
Mar C [:But, yeah, a lot of things up front. And then just starting slowly. Started with, like, a website, and selling just, like, retail, very slowly. And then over time, just expanded into, like, pop ups and things like that, like, out of shops that I had, like, worked at before, working with different friends, who also like, Atlanta has a really big, like, pop up scene whether it be food or drink, which I really, really love because I think That's cool. Like, The local, food and bev people, they, like, bring so much vibrancy to the cities. And so because of that, we would just, like, pop up with people, and it'd be a lot of fun. And, yeah, and so that's, like, grown steadily. I think we're entering our This is entering the 3rd year.
Mar C [:Yeah. Entering year 2, 3. I don't know, actually. But, like, but it's definitely not something where, I guess, typically, like, we've had like, you know how, like, there's coffee companies who just like, they start, and they have hella investors. And then that was something that I realized too. I didn't realize that so many, companies, like, had I mean, I guess I knew, But, like, that wasn't something that, like, crosses my mind all the time because I'm not I'm not a businessperson first. I am a I'm a I'm a coffee person, and, like, I don't have money for that. Right? So I was just like, I'm gonna build something and see if it works, rather than be like, I have a proof of concept of this thing, and you should invest in me.
Mar C [:And here's the reason why. Like, blah blah blah. And then
Elena [:just explaining everything.
Mar C [:Yeah. I was like, let's, let's build something sustainable, and something that I won't hate over time. Yeah. But yeah. So I think we did our 1st, like, crowdfunding kind of campaign back in, June ish, but that was for, like, a roaster. And I I got the roaster, which makes me happy, and we just recently put it into a space. But it's a bay it's a baby, baby roaster. It roast, like, £10, but it's real cute.
Mar C [:It's the artist in, but it made me really happy, and I felt so, supported by community, but even, like, seeing that we've been able to, like, grow that much. And then also, like, working, Again, just, like, doing a ton like, a lot of pop ups, and then working with, like, People to do, like, wholesale things. I think what's been really what's been really nice is being able to work with people who, Like, I want to be able to work with. And I think I've learned a lot too of, like, how to set certain boundaries with with people and, like, and, also, like, know, like, what I want in terms of, like, collaboration.
Elena [:Yeah. Like, we wanna choose to, 1, represent your brand and
Mar C [:Right.
Elena [:You wanna sustain like, have a sustained relationship with. Because that as being a roaster also who Works a lot of the time mostly wholesale. I get so much gratification from that kind of relationship because you're watching that business grow, Especially if they're, like, starting out. It's, like, almost like you're just watching a little bud turn into a little flower.
Mar C [:It's so cute. And so, like, For example, I think one of my, like, wholesale accounts that I have now, it's, for just, like, a small shop down here. They just opened, like, kind of later 2023, and I had been talking to them about, like for around, like, a year, before they opened. But working with them has been so cool because I see that how they're growing.
Elena [:Yeah.
Mar C [:But I also really love how much attention to detail and care and to, like, their community, like, that they, bring. And I think being a part of that makes me so happy. Yeah. So it's yeah. That's always really fun.
Elena [:So you were talking before about competitions. Do you compete then also?
Mar C [:Okay. So I competed in Brewers Cup in 2023? Yeah. So last year, I competed in a Brewers Cup, and that was, like, my first time competing.
Elena [:What was that?
Mar C [:I I think it's really it's a complex answer. It was hard. Yeah. I think I didn't realize, because before then, I had just been judging and part of the Latte art committee, which is really funny because I know nothing about latte art. I'm really bad at it, but part of the committee and because there's a lot of really good people there, and it was fun, And learning how to judge and stuff like that has been really nice. But I think from being on that side from switching from that side of competition So then being the one who is in front of things, it was really challenging and a little stressful. So I think with Brewer's Cup, I really, really love that competition, and it's very, like, pointed. But I also I think something that was so clear to me at that point, I was like, oh, you need to have money to do well at these competitions.
Mar C [:Money, resource, time, like, all this stuff because people roll in with these expensive coffees. They roll in with people
Elena [:Oh, yeah.
Mar C [:Of of coaches. Right? That was something that I didn't realize, but then Crazy coaches? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Woah. So fuck? Like, back Fucking Olympic screen. Yeah. Like, people have coaches.
Mar C [:They have teams. They have all these things. And I and rarely do people compete independently. Right? Right? So Easy. Yeah. So it was weird. It's really weird. It's so, like, jarring, and I felt really Courage.
Mar C [:Okay. It. But I also felt really, like, empowered in different ways, mostly because the, My journey competing was so crazy, I guess, because I had found out, well, I had applied to it, And then I found out that I didn't get into the weighted, like, lottery system, like, an hour and a half before they Open open registration. I was really sad. They only had 7 slots. They filled up really quickly. Then I was like, okay. So I'm gonna be on a wait list.
Mar C [:I had to, like, advocate to be like, hey. Needs to be a wait list for this blah blah blah. So I opened 1, then I was, like, one of the last people to get on it. But that was maybe 3 weeks before the competition date, which is for a qualifying competition. Right? During that time, I had to source my coffee, find a profile to roast it, practice, brewing it, and then, like, come up with, like, a speech and, like, competition kind of thing and also continue to practice compulsory, which is, like, a part of the brewing competition that people don't see. Yeah. And that's why I also really like Brewer's Cup because there is a compulsory level that kind of evens the playing field in some ways Where everyone's given the same coffee, you're giving a you're given a time limit to dial in that coffee to the best of your ability. The coffee always has something, like, missing not necessarily, like, defects or anything, but, like, something like It might taste a little empty.
Mar C [:It might need a little body. It might need a little bit more, like, acidity.
Elena [:It might So they manipulate the roast.
Mar C [:So somewhat. You know? And it's always a washed coffee, But you have, like I think it's 45 minutes total, 38 minutes of dial in time, 7 minutes of performance time. No one's watching you. It's the it's just The 7 minutes to complete, 3 brews 3 separate brews, pour them into cups, send them off to the judges, and they're judged, blindly.
Elena [:Do you do the actual, like, showmanship part first, and then you do the compulsory, like, last? Or is
Mar C [:this, like, you're meant to do all of it? You you just have to do all of it, But, the compulsory part is a separate, like, comp like, it's separate part of the competition. So then you have
Elena [:Oh, so they're both then?
Mar C [:Yeah. So you do both of them. So they're on different days of the competition. So you might do compulsory one day, and then you do what they call open service the next day or vice versa. And so it it was it's wild. So I had to do all that, But then at the same time, I was coaching my friend who has never worked on a bar before for a barista. Right?
Elena [:Oh, god.
Mar C [:And that was like
Elena [:It's stress.
Mar C [:Time. Stress. Yeah. It was a lot of it was a lot of, stress during that, time because we had, like, a month to prep. But I think through that, I was like, okay. Like, what's it going on? Like, I ended up Sourcing coffee from, Haya's Haya's partner, Camilo. Yeah. Yeah.
Mar C [:And I drove all the way up. I drove to New Jersey, and I was like, okay. I'm gonna use this coffee, and then I'm gonna drive back.
Elena [:Fucking commitment, dude.
Mar C [:It is. But I had the this. Like, here. In my mind, the logic was, yo, shipping is gonna take a while. But So for me to drive up then drive back down and then the drive? It's 13 hours.
Elena [:But I might as well just drive. Yeah. It I mean hours casually.
Mar C [:13 hours. But then also while I was up there, I had never used an Akaawa before, but I knew that If I did, then it would I could use 1 down here, and the roast profiles that I set up would be consistent. So I learned
Elena [:No one invested in the story. I just Yeah. I was like, okay. So what's next?
Mar C [:I went up there, and then I learned how to use Makawa from Some at coffee project and then, came back down. And, like, I had, like, 2 different profiles because I used 2 different coffees for that, performance, and then I drove back down. And that was all, like, a 24 to 48 hour kind of trip, but I was like, that's quicker than shipping. And then
Elena [:I drove back on the timeline of those 3 weeks When you drove up to New Jersey.
Mar C [:That was, I think, the either the beginning or the middle of 1st week. And then, yeah, just everything else was, like, prep, prep, prep. And then I got there, and it was, like, jarring, and I was so stressed. But, I ended up qualifying, to go to nationals, which made me really excited. Yeah. I placed 7th, I think, At my, yeah. I placed 7th at my qualifier, which was really shocking. There were, like, 24 people who competed.
Mar C [:And it was my 1st time competing, and I almost puked because I was like, what the heck?
Elena [:Totally invalid.
Mar C [:And when I, When I was there, I think it was overwhelming because I, didn't have like, I was so intimidated by the fact that I didn't have the same amount of support that other people had, I also
Elena [:only go alone? Like, you didn't bring anyone with you?
Mar C [:I like, we had, like, glitter cat, like, teams and stuff like that, but I didn't see, like, the person who was helping me until I got there. And then it was literally just like, oh, she's gonna help taste, like, my coffee, and then we're gonna get notes down. Because for, brewers, you have to have, notes about the, like, about, like, acidity, body balance, after Kate. Like, all that stuff from hot to cold for, like, aroma, like, for the the coffee. Right? So it's a lot of, like, notes and things, but I didn't really do a lot of that or finalize my recipe until I got there, which, which, you know, is kind of common for competition, but I had to switch so many things that my brain was just like, what's going on? But, yeah, I was joking with one of my friends who was there, and I was like, my only goal is to make sure that the people who are back here, who are mostly cis white men, think that I can't brew coffee. Like, that is my only goal because it's less intimidating that way because they felt, like, so, like, like, into like, I don't know, had a weird energy with each other. But I was like, They don't see me as someone who can brew, so I'm just gonna step back, and I'm gonna pretend like I don't know anything.
Elena [:So If that was your friend's experience, do you feel like when you were there, that you were also, like, there's, like, some kind of animosity with, like, That kind of, like
Mar C [:No. That that's what I was telling my friend that, like, I want to do. New York's Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was my experience. And then when I was there, it was, like, it was very strange, the the energy and the space.
Mar C [:But I also think that it was attributed to, like, a lot of us were not used to elevation there because we did the competition in Denver. So that actually changes so much about brewing and it changes so much about coffee. It was very, like, strange, I think. But, yeah, I mean, it was fun. I I completed the whole, like, qualifiers, nationals, but, afterward, I was like, I need to take a break for a while because it it definitely drained me, like, mentally, emotionally, Financially, like, all this stuff, and, I was just
Elena [:Oh, shit. We didn't even talk about that. So I'm guessing you had to pay to participate.
Mar C [:Yeah. And I did like crowdfunding, which was really, really helpful, but it's it's it's like, a lot of like, you put a lot of yourself into trying to find sponsors or trying to find, like, support. And, like, I think something that people don't think about when competing independently is, like, Right. You're you're covering all those costs, basically, and it's not from a company. Whereas company can look at it and be like, oh, this is part of marketing. Right? Or, like, this is part of travel that's already, like, built in, to, like, something that we already have. But, yeah, it was It was a lot. I was gonna ask if it's cool
Elena [:to just shoot a number around how much you think you spent for that.
Mar C [:Oh, probably around, like, $7,000, I think. Yeah. And I think that that Uh-huh.
Elena [:Oh my heart. Yeah. Oh
Mar C [:my And it wasn't it wasn't
Elena [:on your own too? Did you have any did you gain any sponsors after that?
Mar C [:I no. I had, like, some sponsorship, like, Where's sponsorship. Yeah. I also did do a crowdfunding, so it did, like, It did make that amount a little bit less, but I think during that time, like, the total that would be the total amount, including, like, lodging, including travel, like, Yeah. Lodging travel, like food, like, practice costs, like, other wears that, like,
Elena [:I couldn't get,
Mar C [:like, either a discount or Yeah. Like and even coffee. Like, coffee's so expensive. I didn't use a super expensive coffee, for anything, really, but it was just So It was a lot.
Elena [:Do you feel like After obviously placing it for nationals, do you think that all of that because you went through a
Mar C [:lot To, like, get to that point, do you
Elena [:feel like all of it was worth it?
Mar C [:I think in some ways, yes. Because Part of my reasoning for competition was not to do, like, perfectly or well. There's no way to do that in your 1st year. Also, like, Not having the resources, but I learned a lot. And I think my goal for a lot of the things that I do within coffee because Atlanta is a very under resourced coffee Community and city, which sounds really weird because we have a lot of, like, really passionate baristas, really passionate professionals. I I think part of, like, what I wanted to do and my goals for competing were to gain a lot of those skills
Elena [:Yeah.
Mar C [:And bring them back. So if anyone else wanted to compete, I could coach. My my goal for a lot of Things in terms of, like, competition. Like, it's it's great, like, in some ways for, I don't know, community building in some ways. Like, I'm not opposed to it because honestly, like, it allows people to grow professionally invisibility, and there needs to be a lot more, people who have avenues of opportunity within the competition space that are not just cis men or cis white men. You know? Like, I I think it just needs to change. And whether that be through judging, which is a more financially sound kind of option for people because that is one that if someone gets to head judge level or, like, in that range, then Potential like, they would get a stipend for, like, judging. Right? Yeah.
Mar C [:Also, judges make Competitions. Basically, if you didn't have any judges, you would not have a competition. And a lot of people have to be very competent in their skills to be able to do that. But, yeah, whether it be judging or whether someone is interested in competing, there needs to be resources that they can use. Right? So if someone here, like, wanted needed a coach for something, and didn't have that. I want to be able to be, like, that resource for someone because I didn't have it. So it's just out here trying to make, the space that I'm in a little bit better, like, if someone needed it.
Elena [:Wow. Yeah. That seems like okay. So since we're still on this, like, chronological train, You obviously you placed 7th, and then you qualified for nationals. Did you go to nationals?
Mar C [:I did go to nationals, and I placed 17th, I think, Out of I don't remember out of how many, but it was top 20, which made me really happy.
Elena [:Yeah. Honestly. I feel like good for me. Yeah.
Mar C [:Yeah. I was, like, 1st year, like, I I wasn't not expecting anything. I also competed with, An Asian coffee, which made me really happy too that it just, like it scored just as well as a lot of other really fancy and expensive coffees.
Elena [:Yeah. So would you obviously compete again?
Mar C [:I think I would only compete if I had resources.
Elena [:That's totally valid, though, after everything you went through.
Mar C [:Budget set in place because I I told I was like, I don't want I think I was stressed because I'm like, oh, I had to roast my own coffee. I had to source it. I had to get all my wares. I had to make, like, a Managing, schedule of, like, when I was gonna do x, y, and z. And so it felt like a lot. So I I might compete again. I might not. We'll see.
Elena [:I mean, it sounded like a lot.
Mar C [:It was a lot. I was
Elena [:like, that sounded like a lot.
Mar C [:Was like, oh my gosh. How can I do this? But I was glad that I did go through that at the time.
Elena [:No. I feel like especially, Was that, like, your 1st real exposure to, like, the coffee community? Like, in a in a scheme like that? Or have you been were you ex have you gone to, like, expo or whatever?
Mar C [:Yeah. So I'd been to expo before. I think I, you know, I had plugged pretty deeply into, like, the coffee community very parasocially before then. So, during, Like, again, more like lockdown times and quarantine times. Did a lot of, like, meetups with Asian coffee professionals Because or, like, I held space for a bunch of people, and did, like, this thing, like, called coffee agents where we tried to, Like, hold a safe space because that was when a lot of, like, hate crimes were happening. And I I was wanting to make sure that people felt Okay. And if not, they had, like, a space to share. And so I feel like I met a lot of people through that.
Mar C [:And then when I went to expo, I met even more people and then just, like I keep meeting people, I think, through the Internet, which is a very interesting concept, I think, through Coffee. Yeah. But it's nice. I really enjoy it.
Elena [:It's everybody is now interconnected in some way or
Mar C [:Mhmm.
Elena [:Fashion, but, I mean, it sounds like I mean, like, every fabric of your story seems like it's always been connected to coffee anyway. So, With going back to Tan Brown, where do you see Tan Brown going now? Like, do you have any, like, Hope for it to turn into, like, a shop, or, like, is there something else that you're wanting to to, like, come out of it? Like
Mar C [:I think it'd be interesting if it became shop that I know it costs so much. Yeah. I think at the end of the day, like, I wanna be able like, my Goals, I think, coming up is more just hosting more educational kind of sessions. Oh, cool. Yeah. Also, just continuing to roast Coffee, it makes me happy to be able to roast coffee. Mhmm. But, yeah, education and then Maybe, like, a space if something magical happens.
Mar C [:That'd be really, really cool, because I miss I miss working in a shop, and I miss Yeah. And beans, and I miss, like, I miss volume. That's what I miss. Because I I mean, I get some of it with pop ups, but it's a little bit different. I also feel like I I perform a little bit more when I'm doing pop ups because I have to be like, I feel like I have to be on. Right. Right? Which is which is nice because I feel like in some ways, like, I don't get that in a shop setting as much. But then I also really like, being able to turn off my brain and just do things.
Elena [:Yeah. No. That's fair. I have those same, like, moments too, where I'm just, like, sometimes I just wanna, like, go on autopilot and let my body kinda do what it remembers. Because I have to
Mar C [:do the
Elena [:bracelet, like, when I was 18, 19, and now I'm turning 28 soon. So it's kinda like 10 years of doing this shit is kinda wild. But yeah. No. Wow. That's so interesting. So I guess, like, to get a little personal
Mar C [:Yeah.
Elena [:When you wanted to start, like, Tan Brown in the 1st place or, like, pursue coffee, How did like, did you have, like, a lot of support from family and friends?
Mar C [:I don't know if it was, like, active support. I think it's just more like, oh, you're doing that. What are you doing? Right? And then I'm like, I'll show you in a few like, in a while, and then you'll get it, I guess. Mhmm. So I don't know. Like, I guess Support is like a weird concept. So it's it's like not like, oh, don't do that. Blah blah blah.
Mar C [:I think Mostly when I switched into coffee as, like, a career, my parents were like, what the fuck are you doing? Like, why why would you go to school for this other thing and then want to just, like, work in this industry. Yeah. And I know that it's from a place of care. I know that it's from a place of, like, Wanting me to be okay, you know? But I think at the end of the day, it's still a little bit confusing As to, like, why, but, I don't know whether or not I have, like, Active support in different ways. I feel really held by the people who I have been able to meet. So I did feel supported from a lot of, like, Coffee people switching to, like, different things. It's been fun.
Elena [:Yeah. I was asking them more out Curiosity, because I know that you mentioned that you are Korean American. So I was just Curious to are your parents immigrants?
Mar C [:No. I'm actually adopted. So Well, fucking jits. So it's not something that I talk about very much anymore.
Elena [:Thing.
Mar C [:Just because I don't, have to be in spaces, like, with My parents, so I don't Mhmm. And I don't have, like, a super close relationship with them either. So it's something where I'm not, like, shy to talk about it. It's not like, vulnerable for me, but it's just something that I don't actively, like, bring up. And I think a lot of the times I've realized, like, when I mention it in spaces, it, sometimes people look at it, and they're like, oh, well, that means you don't have, like, validity as, like, this I see. I see where you are. Right. And I was like, actually, I've had similar experiences, and I feel like I do resonate very heavily with a lot of 2nd gen Korean Americans in different ways, like, trying to seek out culture, trying to
Elena [:seek out
Mar C [:language, like, I think a lack of connection being in between different things, like, And I don't feel completely comfortable all the time with, like, big groups of, like, adoptees or, like, big groups of Fully Korean people. Like so I feel, like, very in between a lot of the times. Yeah.
Elena [:No. Like, my favorite thing to talk like, This isn't trying to sound weird, but, like, as somebody who is a 1st gen, like, my favorite space my favorite space of people are the 1st gens and 2nd gens.
Mar C [:Yes. We just we just know. We get it. And it's
Elena [:so validating to meet other people Who are constantly, like, in search of a community space because we can't coexist in 1 or the other. Right. I have many, like, 1st or 2nd gen friends where we have these, like, really great conversations. And, like, It's it's crazy because it doesn't matter if you were born here, if you were born there, if you speak the language, or if you don't. We all get labeled the same, And we all somehow figure out to have the same kinds of experiences, and
Mar C [:Yeah. Who wants this.
Elena [:Because I have, like, friends that are Jordanian American that are constantly, like, in search of their Arab identity
Mar C [:Yeah.
Elena [:And also struggling living here. And then I have my Korean American friend who is 1st generation, and she still struggles with conforming a lot to the Korean Culture and identity as well, and, like, so, like, as a queer Arab person, also just It it's all intermingle, and it's great to find community in that sense. So it's like when I get to find other people
Mar C [:who are also Queerness Adds, like, another level to it too where you're just like, damn. Like, what? What's going on? Right?
Elena [:No. Honestly, it's like, cool. I guess, like, I didn't need my life to be more complicated. They did.
Mar C [:Yeah. But, yeah, here we are.
Elena [:Literally. It's fucking exhausting. So I have a segment on my show.
Mar C [:Mhmm. I don't
Elena [:know if you've listened to the other episodes.
Mar C [:I have.
Elena [:Great. So then, hopefully, you're prepared. There's a segment on the show every fucking episode. It kinda started last season where The whole premise of the show is to talk about controversy or talk about a subject that you're passionate about that feels needs to be highlighted That doesn't get talked enough about. So now we're bringing it up. This is the hot take. So what is your hot take?
Mar C [:Oh, man. I knew that this was coming, and I am not prepared for this. Okay. Let's think of a hot take.
Elena [:Let's think. This is a you thing.
Mar C [:I know. I
Elena [:have too many.
Mar C [:I have a lot of hot takes, but I actually don't know if their hot takes are just true. I'm just kidding. But I have to I have to think on this one for a second. And it can be anything. It doesn't have to be coffee related.
Elena [:Yep. Honestly. I feel like half the time it it goes kinda AWOL. But, regardless, I think that This content is for most anybody who's trying to find and relate to experiences in the workplace. We just happen to be coffee related people, so that's why we kinda emphasize coffee. But for the most part, we go off topic talking about these kind of things all the time. So if you wanna bring up something that's like, hey. This is This is something that I've been wishing somebody would fucking talk about that doesn't get talked about enough, then by all means, I am just a platform.
Mar C [:Dang. Oh, gosh. Wow. I totally blanked out. I should have prepared more. That's okay. And I think I had a really good one, but I don't remember what it is now. Oh, I think you go.
Mar C [:I think that, this might be a really hot take. Maybe it's not that hot take. I think home brewers and enthusiasts need to stop giving incorrect advice and stop, picking on people who work in shops.
Elena [:I like that one, actually. Like, the the coffee bro mentality.
Mar C [:Yeah. Coffee bro mentality just needs to stop. I think something that I really like, I get so upset about is when I see coffee bros, like, commenting on different things, like, in shop Settings are, like, if they go to somewhere, I was like, I can always make this better.
Elena [:Yeah. Then we'll talk
Mar C [:to them. Go to the shop. Like, what is your intention for going to the shop? Or, like, Them having, like, this whole setup and basically being like, oh, you spritz this, and then you put this in this, like, $1,000 grinder, and then you have
Elena [:to wild.
Mar C [:Like, 10, 15 different prep things, and then you put a screen on it and a filter on it, and then you put it in your machine, and then your shot channels anyway. Like, I I look at that, and I'm like, I just I don't think you understand that that would not work in volume. You it also Then you saying, oh, I can make a better quality whatever at home. I'm like, okay. Then you stay at home and do that. The reason why people go to shops is to get to know, like, baristas. Like, you're the that's the start of someone's day. They might go for experience.
Mar C [:They might go for something that brings them nostalgia. It's something that is more care based. Like, I think people removing empathy from coffee and community from coffee is inherently
Elena [:Yeah. Honestly, that's a good one. I feel like, Like, when you you brought up, like, how people come into the shop and they're, like, well, I could do this. My favorite question is, like, you don't have an Ethiopian natural?
Mar C [:Oh my gosh.
Elena [:I'm like, how many like, I'm like, bro, there's fucking countries Outside of Ethiopia that make bomb ass coffee, there are people who pick up the bags. And I watch this happen because our retail is right by our counter. They'll literally pick up the bag and be like, yeah. That doesn't taste that doesn't sound like it tastes good.
Mar C [:Oh, I also have another one.
Elena [:Go ahead.
Mar C [:I think that a lot of people who brew at home are calibrated to under extracted coffee.
Elena [:I agree with this.
Mar C [:Yeah. I think that they're so and I think a lot of people don't and that's why I think When new brewers come out onto the market, I'm always like, okay. Great. And, like, fast, slow, fast, slow, fast, slow. Okay. Great. But so many people don't know how to use it and can't extract their coffee. And I think the metric for things where they think that every coffee should taste Bright and acidic.
Mar C [:I'm like, that is not factual. And some coffees shine differently, like, when they have more contact time with water, But I think there's not enough brew theory and coffee theory and extraction theory being, like, shared in those spaces. And so
Elena [:a lot of it is just bad. Headache, bro. Like, a lot of the time, like, people just wanna get into coffee for the aesthetic of how that looks. Because everybody who doesn't know shit about coffee is obviously gravitated towards, like, the oohs and
Mar C [:the ahs of, like, watching the coffee Flow through the drip, and then obviously doing the swirl of, like, adding the water, and then the timing, and then the way
Elena [:you look like you're, like, boujee as fuck Doing a pour over when half the time people don't understand what kind of temperature of water.
Mar C [:Right.
Elena [:Kind of water. Right. Outline or courses the grind. Or if they do, they scrutinize anyone else who changes the recipe. When there are different recipes for pour overs, people lose their fucking shit.
Mar C [:Yeah. Or even people using competition recipes, from day to day things where that was not intended for that Like, for a coffee you might be using at home
Elena [:Right.
Mar C [:Or, like, it honestly changes day by day. You're never gonna get the same kind of results as someone and someone crafted that recipe for that specific time for a purpose. So I think people taking things out of context. And then but, yeah, I think, that's a big one where I'm just like, people don't understand or, like, they're calibrated to just, like, way too acidic and under extracted coffee, and they think it's normal. And so I think it ends up writing out a bunch of other coffees that are beautiful in their own. Right? Yeah.
Elena [:Yeah. I think, like, for me, when I started my coffee journey, like, I obviously had no good ideas of What different regions tasted like until, like, my mentor kinda sat me down and was, like, we're gonna try coffees, like, every day from different regions. And I was, like, wow. This is really interesting. Cool. And then I kinda discovered through repetition of, obviously, different beans, varietals, processes, and farmers, how much I absolutely love Congolese coffee. Hungary's coffee tends to be some of my favorite coffee, but I would've never known that if I hadn't, like, kinda, like, constantly tried. If I had just stuck with the idea of, like, I'm gonna have an Ethiopian natural every day, and I'm not gonna try anything else.
Elena [:Or if we're not getting washed or, you know, like, obviously, There's more to
Mar C [:Oh, sorry. I was, like, even even now with a lot of people drinking more or I guess more, Like, anaerobic or Yeah. Co ferments or all these things. I think, like, those are not bad things to have, but I think trying different coffees and more standard coffees from regions and, like, understanding context that there's Places that cannot do the same kind of processing methods because of laws. Like, I
Elena [:Yeah.
Mar C [:Yeah. I'm like, that then, like, allows us to contextually appreciate things. I think when people are like, I don't understand Why this country can't do this kind of co ferment, blah blah blah blah blah. Like, we should be crafting it like this way. That'd be so exotic. I'm like, well, the reason why Colombia can do all those processing methods because they had log lifted in 2019. Right? Yeah. So they've been able to dive into, like, Research.
Mar C [:And that's, like, really, really awesome, but there's a lot of countries that are, like like, war sieged or whatever. And Exactly.
Elena [:A
Mar C [:lot of places that, like, have really strong tariffs on stuff and a lot of governmental control, and I think people forget about that, especially when it comes to just, like, tasting different things. I'm like, just appreciate a lot of coffees for what they are, and then No. And you can have your bias and preferences. Right? Like, people are entitled to, like, what they like and what they don't like. Yeah. But I think keeping an open mind, allows us to explore a little bit more and then also not become so palette, like, Calibrated to 1 end of the spectrum.
Elena [:That's a really good way to describe that palette calibrated. I like that a lot. I want to Shift perfectly and transition beautifully into the producers you work with.
Mar C [:Oh.
Elena [:I would love to learn more about What kind of producers do you work with?
Mar C [:Yeah. So I think, being small is really hard to, like, do like direct kind of things.
Elena [:Yeah.
Mar C [:So I still go through, like, the general, like, I don't know, like, genuine origin, stuff like that. But I think one of the coffees that makes me really excited, is we have a coffee from Myanmar. And that Coffee is from the Shue Tong II Cooperative, which is in the Southern Shan region of Myanmar. And I think something that I really like about that specific co op and I got it through Atlas Coffee, but, they work pretty directly with them. I think, like, watching and knowing that that specific cooperative, like, has, like, representatives from each of the villages there. They come together to figure out, like, what, will help grow, like, their, like, communities and their spaces. Yeah. And, something that I really love about Myanmar coffee specifically is, like, You know, coffee is a colonial product.
Mar C [:Right? Like, it is something that it is not the areas where it's supposed to be is not supposed to be there, Right? Unless it's indigenous to that space, but most of the coffee has been brought over by some, like, colonial force. So in Myanmar, a lot of the crops were really, really bad. Right? Until around, like, 2014. I
Elena [:didn't place that.
Mar C [:2014, they had like a processing training, like Skillshare kind of thing with, some people from like a quality, thing. I don't remember what the, org was, but they had, like, 1 processing training. But something that they continue to do was they took that and then built upon it. And I would say that Myanmar Has some of the most, like, skilled, skilled producers who do natural processing. Like, if you look at some of the pictures of Myanmar natural processed coffees, they're, like, bright red cherries. The bag that I have is very much like if I open it, it smells like a natural, but there's not a lot of color variation in the green. So it looks like it could be a wash. Like, it's a very, very beautiful coffee, and I think it shows a lot about resilience.
Mar C [:And, like, it also shows a, Like, resilience where you don't have to be resilient or you shouldn't have to be, but you're taking what you're given and growing it. And I think a lot of it has to do With being driven by the people in your space and, like, because it is like a co op. Right? Yeah. So that's something that I really, really enjoy.
Elena [:That's fucking awesome. You were talking about something. We had Ruth on an episode, from Artisan Imports. She works mostly with, like, Rwanda and, like, some Ethiopian producers, all women, amazing coffees. But she was also talking about how she when she went to Rwanda, that was a lot of, like, the co ops that she was kind of, like, being introduced to where they were, like, selective representatives from different parts of their communities, and they all, like, Came together to kind of dictate okay. So what should we do with, like, obviously, financial like, the money aspect?
Mar C [:Yeah. It's like, where does this go? Does this support us, like like, health wise? Like, how does this yeah. And I But
Elena [:what I loved the most From that episode is she said that there's actual studies. Obviously, I don't have data right in front of me, but she said that there are studies that if you invest In the women of the communities, they will have a higher rate of benefiting their community versus a man
Mar C [:I See that
Elena [:Because of the priorities being really different. Obviously, women care more for the collective and and their community and the children Versus men can be, like, ego driven and and
Mar C [:Ego driven. Power driven. So it's like
Elena [:I love hearing that kind of stuff, like, from different Producers that are trying to put the people first versus just the individual, like, capitalist mindset.
Mar C [:Yeah. I think that makes a lot of sense too, though, in terms of the fact that a lot of coffee producing regions, a lot of the most, Like, co op focus or community focus Yeah. Producers are women or, like, there's a lot of, like, women grown coffee.
Elena [:Yeah. I'm I'm proud to say that I do all of our coffee purchasing also for the place that I work, and we only source from women owned and women produced. Well That was my incentive, and and I obviously have a a a minority and people and queer driven podcast. So, like, a lot of what I want to do is bring more of that representation and inclusivity and collecting to the coffee community and the coffee world. And it and it a lot from the consumer's end. It starts a lot from the com community end. It comes from a lot of the in systemic issues. So it's like A lot of it from where this, podcast is coming from is just highlighting great voices and great people and And giving recognition where it's due along with showcasing, like, the work that they do for the purpose of why I started the podcast, which Was to meet these amazing people, to build a community, and to, like, showcase the power of the people And the women Hell yeah.
Elena [:And the queer people. Hell yeah. And the beautiful people of color as well. So yeah. That's fucking awesome. Wow. Wow. It's wow.
Elena [:Wow.
Mar C [:Well, do you have any questions for me? Oh my.
Elena [:Sorry. I'm a pretty direct person.
Mar C [:No. I know. I I understand that. I can also be pretty direct, which I like a lot more because I think yeah. Recently, I've just been, like, really confused when people are very indirect, so it's good.
Elena [:Yeah. I can't do it. I'm just like, tell me what you want. Tell me what you're asking for.
Mar C [:I'm like, my brain is too spicy for this.
Elena [:No. I'm just saying that, like, I think What I've what I liked in the last season was I definitely didn't have the interaction of the conversation from both ends.
Mar C [:And I
Elena [:kinda wanna integrate that more that it's, like, okay, cool. I obviously, like, put your whole life on the platter right here. So it's like, you're free to, like, ask me anything you'd like to know.
Mar C [:Yeah. I think for For you, like, what what are things that you want more of within the coffee industry?
Elena [:Are you asking me my hot take?
Mar C [:Yeah. Sure. Sure. Or, yeah, things that aren't talked about or just things that you dream of. So hot take and then maybe dreams.
Elena [:I genuinely wish there were more Arab people.
Mar C [:Yeah.
Elena [:I feel like if there's anything that's among many other ethnicities, I feel like Arab people are so underrepresented.
Mar C [:That's very true. Underrepresented
Elena [:in the in the Coffee community. Mhmm. Like, bro, I don't think you understand how hard 1, I research the people I bring on the show. Yeah?
Mar C [:Right.
Elena [:I have barely found any Arab people.
Mar C [:That's so interesting too because a lot of, like, Arab countries, like, coffee is, Like, the drink of choice because
Elena [:Yeah. No. I mean, like, honestly, if you think of the story of coffee
Mar C [:Yeah. Story. Yeah.
Elena [:And how it The obviously, the beans originated from Ethiopia, but we had a Sufi monk bring back it
Mar C [:the
Elena [:coffee to Yemen and created the beverage. So it's like, That's something I think somebody also asked me this last season whether I was just like, okay. So what do you like, what are your goals? Right? And I went to SDA's, like, Roasters retreat in 2022 yeah. And I I remember meeting somebody, and I was like, I would love Love. And this is really outlandish and ambitious to bring in more Yemeni coffees. I would love to meet Yemeni producers. I would love to kinda really build that system up because, one, it is also war driven, and it's really Hard and dangerous to get coffee out of Yemen. But it it was, like, the closest thing that I felt, like, I had a connection to my roots.
Elena [:Obviously, my country is not near I'm so good at geography.
Mar C [:What what is your country?
Elena [:Iraqi. So I'm in from Uh-uh. So it's not too far off, but I was confusing Kuwait and yeah. Anyways, but, yeah, I just wanted to, like, find connection in in the work that I do. Like, all of my work that I ever do, I need to find some sense of myself in there where there's passion, there's a Thrive. There's there's a clear line goal for me to find alignment with it. It's not just me, like, pumping out shit to bring money home. It's finding, like, Fulfillment through my life's work, I'm just not one of those people that can, like, go to work and then turn off and go home.
Elena [:Like, I'm just never been one of those people. So, like, for me, when it came down to, like, what would I like to do when I got into coffee, I was, like, I found a love for Yemeni coffees. I think they're delicate. I think they're beautiful. I think they have obviously very similar traits to Ethiopian coffees, But I think that they're extremely underrepresented, and they do not have as much resource to better their hobbies. And they tend to be a lot more expensive because of how hard it is to get in the States. But Going out of the coffee world, and what what I'm doing here is I would love to find more Arab people Who want to have representation and find community. I would also love to and I remember talking to Ken At one point about this off off air where I was, like, they suggested having, like, collective from Beings Without Boundaries.
Elena [:And I think that could be an amazing thing to kinda, like, build a whole community from my podcast where we're just kinda, like, All looking out for each other.
Mar C [:Yeah.
Elena [:Which sounds a little bit, like, utopian there. But
Mar C [:We can dream.
Elena [:Yeah. At the end of the day, it's just, like, I I love I love the people I've met so far on this journey, and I think that it would be great to Be able to open arms towards finding my people and finding more queer Arab people, and I I'm grateful that I have, like, a really awesome lineup of people who are gonna come on the show this season. But yeah. It sucks that I can't seem to find Arab people being represented in the coffee world as easily as it is to find a majority of 1 or the other. You know?
Mar C [:Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. I think also with you doing more of this and you being the person who's visible, there are people out there who will Come to you as well. So I'm sure I'm sure it'll grow.
Elena [:Yeah.
Mar C [:Yeah. Aw. Well, thank you for sharing that with me.
Elena [:Yeah. Of course. I'd tend to be an open book. I'm just, like, not really good with, like, Generic questions on because I'm so direct driven, I'm like, you gotta
Mar C [:Yeah. You gotta, like, you gotta tap in. Right? It's not the it's not the how's the weather today? How was your day?
Elena [:Oh, bro. Right? Or, like, if small talk at all. Like, if somebody was to come up how was your day?
Mar C [:I'm like, do you wanna hear how my entire day was? This one.
Elena [:That's what I will say, though.
Mar C [:That's what made me not
Elena [:the best barista. What made me not the best barista. I slay slinging on fucking balls.
Mar C [:Me too.
Elena [:Throw me on the bar, in peak, In rush, whatever. You get me behind, like, POS, and you want me to be nice and warm to you. I'm sorry. I ain't the bitch. I'm not the girl. I'm not the person. I'm not the thing, to be talking to people and be like,
Mar C [:Oh, hi. How are yeah. Yeah. Oh my god. The web. Oh, you're a dog? You brought your 4 dogs into the shop? Yeah. You can't put those in here. That's a health code violation.
Elena [:Yeah. Do I have a pop cup? No, bitch. I don't got a fucking pop cup. We even got we don't got no goddamn whipped Cream. Starbucks and the fucking schemes they've created.
Mar C [:Yeah. I know. Influences everything. Fuck them. We're boycotting anyway.
Elena [:You better say it.
Mar C [:Yeah. You might see
Elena [:it with all the shit that's going on. Yeah. I'm so proud of my people and of the American people and what they have Accomplished through the boycotting and through all of these other things, but, man, what a mess.
Mar C [:And, I mean, it should have been sooner.
Elena [:Period. They're calling it to do that anyway.
Mar C [:It is. And it's like It it, like, ruins the entire supply chain of, like, how much people should be getting paid for shit anyway.
Elena [:Yeah. Talk about that. Be really interesting is to find somebody who works in the Starbucks roaster and be like, hey. Yo. I need you to air the fucking dirt.
Mar C [:Yeah. I bet they I I bet they have to sign, like, NDAs, though.
Elena [:Yeah, though.
Mar C [:Yo. They probably They probably all sign NDAs and, like, weird, like, noncompete kind of things or, like, non disclosure. Like yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Elena [:I definitely think the noncompete thing is For sure. I'm very curious if they do have to sign an NDA. See? There's something so fucking cult y and creepy about Starbucks.
Mar C [:I think so too. I think NDAs are really weird, but, you know, I don't know. I'm not a again, I'm not a business person.
Elena [:You don't mind, though.
Mar C [:Yeah.
Elena [:Well, I really loved talking to you. This was so much fucking fun, and you fun. A basket of daisies and sunshine.
Mar C [:Wow. I'm so glad. I've had a really shitty week, I'm glad that I
Elena [:Oh, I'm so sorry. No.
Mar C [:This was this was a good, like, highlight, so I'm really glad that I got to talk to you and meet you and yeah.
Elena [:Honestly, you gave such good information. It was a very informative and very satisfying story to listen to at the end of the day.
Mar C [:Welcome to my brain.
Elena [:That's great. Well, Is there anything else you'd like to leave with saying on the show today?
Mar C [:Let me think. I think I'd like to leave, Just if anyone is trying different things or wanting to get into new, like, projects and things like that, you don't have to ask permission to do it. Like, you can just do it. And, a lot of the times, like, reach out to people, but be genuine. I think one of the things that Bugs me the most a lot of times is when people reach out, and it's immediately business. And I'm like, I don't want that. But, like, There's moments where you can get to know really nice people. You can be genuine.
Mar C [:You can be, like, someone like, I don't know. Don't know. Be intentional about the things that you're creating, but you don't have to ask permission
Elena [:to
Mar C [:you do thing. You can create the world that you want, and people will come to it.
Elena [:Yep. That was great. So great with your words.
Mar C [:Oh, thank you. Wow.
Elena [:Wow. I need to just make an audio sound. Just like
Mar C [:I know just like a button. Yeah. Thank you for having me on here.
Elena [:I love the people I meet on the show, and then I hate the fact that they all live so Fucking far away.
Mar C [:Where are you based again?
Elena [:Ohio. Dang. Dang.
Mar C [:What part of Ohio? Columbus. Columbus? Okay. That makes sense. That is far from a lot of places. Okay. The that makes sense. Doesn't make sense in my brain. I was just like, okay.
Mar C [:Yeah. Where are you based? Where why is it far from a lot of places?
Elena [:Literally in the middle of fucking nowhere. I thankfully live in Columbus, which isn't even that great, but, yeah. No. Ohio is just dumber.
Mar C [:It's the Midwest.
Elena [:It's fucking cornfields and soybeans.
Mar C [:There's a lot of people who like it. I don't know. I don't know anything about Ohio.
Elena [:You come up here once, and then you can tell me if you like it or not.
Mar C [:Okay. I'll come
Elena [:up once. Okay. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. I loved talking to you and hearing your story and having you here. You are so sweet and nice, and I feel like you probably have a feisty side that obviously you did not show. I get that energy. But
Mar C [:A little bit. I loved talking to you.
Elena [:And all 3 of y'all, Maxie, Haya and you are just great people. Aw. I just loved talking to all of you guys. Aw. I'm just like, I guess your mouth is on the next Shane, because you got y'all just flock together. They're
Mar C [:mostly Yeah. I love I love them. I love the chance to get to, like, see both of them. It's so fun. They're they're They're my people. Yeah.
Elena [:Well, I will leave you to it then. Enjoy your Friday.
Mar C [:Fabulous. Thank you so much. You enjoy your Friday.
Elena [:Don't be a stranger.
Mar C [:Alright. Bye bye. Bye bye.
Elena [:I loved that episode. That was great. Honestly, though, for most of the people that wanna learn about, like, Brewer's Cup, I'm, like, being from the actual interest and genuine interest of working in coffee I mean, to gravitating towards working into coffee, like, they were talking about how they were just really interested and thought it was really cool, and then it somehow was eased into their life, and then they ended up, like, doing all these things. Their journey to brewers cup and getting internationals and all that And then placing is wild, and then, obviously, Tan Brown was so fucking cool. That's such a great Community and business to create, and I honestly really do hope the best for them and what they're trying to create. And I hope that other people flock to that. I wanted to also point out that I loved the community aspect that they tried to build during the time where being Asian American wasn't safe. Love that.
Elena [:As much as I am a person that does care about coffee and the origin and the systemic issues, I somehow have now fallen into a political activist. So, like, that shit's something I really loved. But, also, I just Think that they're a genuinely good hearted person, and they care about the people, and they care about the community, and they just want people to come more Open mic. We all just need to
Mar C [:be a bit more open minded
Elena [:and keep your fucking opinions when you enter a coffee shop to yourself. Because why
Mar C [:would you come in anyway? Unless you wanna get behind the bar and do it. I won't complain. I'll have fun watching you. Making a mess.
Elena [:But either way, this episode was great. The clan of Maxi, Hyacinth, and now Mar has grown into a 3. I guess I wonder who else we can grow into a 4th to everyone else who also knows each other. But I loved this episode. If there's any tidbits to find, the TLDRs is tan brown coffee, Being in Brewer's Cup, caring about working with Asian producers, and their Hot take being, don't come in and tell people how to run their own business.
