Taiwana Daniels, MBA, MIS is the Senior Associate Director and ACGME Institutional Coordinator, Graduate Medical Education, Emory University School of Medicine. In this episode, Taiwana shares lessons learned through her 16 year journey in Graduate Medical Education, from Admin Assistant to Senior Associate Director. Her words of advice to others include "Just to believe in yourself and do not let your past determine your future; that you can achieve anything that you work hard towards. It's going to take work, but it's worth it in the end. And just know that you can do it, and I think most important, believe in yourself."

Resources

• Administrative Professionals | Emory University | Atlanta GA
• Essentials of Leadership | Emory University | Atlanta GA
• ACGME Home

Hello listeners, welcome to Educational Landscapes: Lessons From Leaders. On today's episode, we are going to learn from Taiwana Daniels. Welcome to the show, Taiwana.

Thank you, Ulemu.

So to get us going, what is your educational leadership title or titles title?

So I essentially have two titles. My main title is the Senior Associate Director in the Office of Graduate Medical Education in the School of Medicine. And I also hold a title of the Institutional Coordinator for all of our training programs through our accrediting body, ACGME, which is the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education.

Thank you so much. That was quite the mouthful.

I know. I know. When I have to explain my title, it's either, "What do you do?" Or, "What is that?" So I get that a lot.

And I'm going to be feeding into that by asking what do you do in those roles?

So in my role as Senior Associate Director in the GME office, it coincides with being the Institutional Coordinator. So I help manage all of our training programs with our Associate Dean in the Graduate Medical Education office, or I'll say GME, that's one of the acronyms I'll probably say a lot. And I have three direct reports and I essentially oversee them in terms of responsibilities in the front office of the GME office. And I oversee the budgets, the FTE budgets for our hospitals. I oversee the training... The master agreements, I'm sorry, and the program letter of agreements that we have between our hospitals and programs.

And what else do I do? I am the GMEC coordinator, that is the main oversight body for all of our training programs. And I do whatever else is assigned to me. It's that bucket where everything else is in that bucket. So duties as assigned too, as well.

Indeed, indeed. That bucket can be small, but it can also be big, that is duties as assigned.

It can be big, but I think that's where you get most of your learning and your growth is in that task as assigned because it challenges you to go outside the box, because most times you're in the office and you know, "This is what I do. When I come in the office, this is what I'm expected to do." But then when somebody says, "Taiwana, can you do this?" Given that I have tons of things to do, but when you give me additional tasks, that means it gives me an opportunity to learn and to grow in the office so I can learn more things in our office.

I love that perspective. Thank you for sharing. So given the broad range of things you do, because I heard GMEC Coordinator, you're dealing with agreements with hospitals and all of the stuff, what skills do you use in your roles?

Okay. I think the first one is time management, because you have different hats. And so you have to be able to look at your task for today and determine what is the priority and what needs to be taken care of, or what you can put as a lower priority. So time management is one of the biggest ones I would attribute, and communication, because you have to be able to communicate. In my role, I have to communicate with the Deans, with Program Directors, with Coordinators, and with people on our team. So communication is another big skill that I use every day, and probably one of the biggest is adaptability. Oh my gosh.

Accreditation is always changing. So with that change causes me to have to learn the new requirements, and to adapt to the change and to be able to express those changes to our program. So one of the things that was hard for me, is kind of hard for me is change. I've been in this role for almost 16 years and you get used to the thing. And when I first started, change was like, "No, we've always done it this way." But now I learned that, "Okay, okay, something new. Get it together, learn it, and move forward." As opposed to just letting it be a sticking point where you feel like you can't go on.

And again, problem-solving and teamwork is always important. Creativity, because with changes requires us to see... come up with creative ways to make things happen. Leadership, being the Accreditation Manager, I would say that I do have to have some type of leadership in terms of knowing requirements, knowing language, so that when someone comes to me, I'm able to explain that. And I would say interpersonal skills and work ethic. Work ethic is one of the most important things to me because I think everything I do speaks to me. And so I do want things that I do or say to reflect me as a person and my character. So I feel that's really important. I know that's a lot, but-

I think that given how much you do, it makes sense that that's a lot.

It is, but I think your work, to me, I feel like your work speaks to you. It speaks about you. So I always try to make sure that I reflect positively in the things that I do and say, and if I make a mistake, I will apologize for it because no one's perfect. And I think it's important for you to learn from yourself as well, and know that you may make a mistake, but pick yourself up and apologize or make it right and just keep it moving.

Absolutely. Such wise words, because as you said, changes are a constant, right?

Yes. Yes.

And with change comes errors.

Yes.

Even when we're trying to be adaptable and all of that, we are learning as we go. So I really love that, how much you embrace that. And I also appreciate you telling us about how that wasn't how you always were, but you've come to that.

Yes. Yes. It was a big thing for me to have to deal with change, because again, I'm into processes, so step one, step two, you don't do two unless you've done one first. But sometimes three creeps in and it needs to come before one. And I'm like, "Ah!" But now I'm like, "Okay, keep it moving."

Yep, yep, yep. So important. So important. And so you mentioned that you've been with GME for 16 years. Can you tell us a bit about what your journey was that led to this current role?

Yeah. So it'll be 16 years in November of this year, but I started at Emory in the Graduate Medical Education office. I've been here in this office for my whole time at Emory. I started in November 2007, and I came in as the Admin Assistant. And I was very new to Graduate Medical Education. I did have some experience into the clerkship with my previous job at Vanderbilt, but coming into this role and starting, I would say at a lower level, it was a foundation for me. And I was an Admin Assistant probably about three or four years. And then I moved up to Senior Associate.

That job code is not even available anymore, but I moved up to that level and it wasn't a leadership role, but it was just a step-up. And again, that was more of a ground level thing. It was doing more front office responsibilities. And I do remember at some point in my career here, I talked to the Assistant Dean at the time who was Marilane. I told her that I wanted to do more because I just felt like I knew how to do the basic stuff, but that I felt like there's more I could do. And she basically took me under her wing and gave me different tracks, asked me which way did I want to go? Which path did I want to go, either HR or accreditation? And I chose accreditation because I just love the idea of having requirements and processes in place that if you adhere to these and stay within this realm, then those things can lead programs forward.

So then I just moved up in the ranks and then I became an Assistant Director, which I was happy for but it was challenging because then I was tasked with supervising other people. And again, I appreciated that step up but then having to do my work and oversee other people, that was challenging for me because I've never done that before. So again, I've embraced it, took advantage of Emory's Essentials and Leadership course that they have. And so continued to work my way up and from Assistant Director became Associate Director. And today I am again the Senior Associate Director and the Institutional Coordinator for all our programs.

When I started in 2007, we had 88 programs. Now we have 117 programs. So it's a lot. It's a lot more work but it's okay. I am grateful for where I am now because in my younger days, people really didn't expect a lot from me because of choices that I made, but I had friends and other mentors who told me that your past does not have to define your future and you have value in yourself, then there's nothing that you cannot achieve.

Indeed. Such an inspirational journey that you've had, and I love how you had talked about earlier taking on those other duties as assigned. And by you doing that, you have grown in your different roles to the role that you have. So thank you. That is so inspiring.

Oh, yeah. And I have some people ask me, "How did you get that role?" And I always tell people that no one gave me this role. I had to work for it. I had to work hard for it. I had to study accreditation, I had to study requirements. And when people see that you invest, that you put your time into learning something, and when you have mentors, for me, my mentors at the time was again, Marilane Bond and Dr. Zaidan, they invested time in me. I asked questions and if there were things that I didn't understand, if there were times that we were in meetings and things, some language above my head, they took time to explain stuff to me. So I think it's all about who you surround yourself with, and again, investing time in yourself to learn things and to ask questions if there's something you don't understand.

Indeed. Indeed. I think about, as you said, how many programs there are now and accreditation, it's at the program accreditation, at the institutional level accreditation. And I must tell listeners that I am forever amazed at your ability to remember details about our programs, how long they are, who is the Program Director. And I think it's a testament, as you said, to who you are and how much value you put into the roles that you take.

Thank you. I appreciate that. And it's 117 today and counting. We're still growing, which is a good thing. I think growth is good, but yeah, I don't know. People ask me questions and I just spit it out, not even... it just conjures up. They'd be like, "How do you know that?" I'm like, "I don't know. I've been doing this for a while."

Indeed. And I'm sure so many people, because I know I appreciate you for that whenever I'm going, "Ooh, how long is that program?" You just have it at the top of your head. Sometimes I cheat. I don't even bother looking. I might like, "Taiwana will know."

Yes, that's good. I don't mind. I think that's good, but thank you for that. I appreciate that.

Oh, most welcome. Most welcome. So as you reflect on the journey that you have been on and continue to be on, what do you wish you knew before stepping into your current leadership role?

I think I wish I had knew more... Or maybe I wish I had more confidence in myself. I think a lot of things that I've been hesitant to do things because I have this thing in the back of my head like, "You can't do it." Listening to previous voices that have told you that you'll probably always be someone working at a restaurant or something like that, and just not having that confidence to know that you can do this and nothing's too hard for you if you put your mind [to it] and work hard for it.

So I wish I had just known more about myself to know that I can do this. And I know there were times when I would be in meetings and I wouldn't say anything because I was feeling like maybe I didn't deserve to be in these circles looking at everyone else who was in a table, but someone told me that you can express yourself and it's okay. And you may not be the person at the table who knows the most, but you can contribute to the conversation. And so I'm learning to do that more, to speak out more, to ask questions more. So I would say for me that would be something that I wish I knew more about myself.

So important. I think I hear that from a lot of people, the confidence and what some people refer to as the imposter syndrome and how it sits there but as we keep going, we help prove to ourselves in that imposter syndrome that we can keep moving forward. We can share our voice at different tables.

Right.

I think that's so important.

Oh yeah, absolutely. And then you try to make sure that people that you work with or people that you supervise, you make sure that... For me, I try to make sure that they know that they can ask me any question. There's no question that's too small and that if I can't give them the answer, then I'll try to work with someone who can give it to them because I want the people that I supervise or the people around me to know that they can get to this level too. You don't have to stay where you are, that you can always go up if you work hard and just learn and ask questions.

Yeah, so important. So thinking about that, asking questions and recognizing that you have so much that you have to keep track of with accreditation and all of that good stuff, what continuing professional development do you do to keep up with the needs of your roles?

Okay. So one of the good things about our accreditation line is that we have our annual conference, and that is one of the most important things that I'm able to go to because they have a wealth of sessions pertaining to accreditation. So I take advantage of those each year. And one of the things that our accrediting body does is they have different sessions on their website, and I look at those as well just to try to get a sense of what's going on and what changes are in place. They always have different webinars when there are changes that come ahead or changes that are coming down the pike. They have these webinar sessions and I try to attend all of them so that I can get a better understanding because what typically happens is when there is a change, our programs will reach out to our Associate Dean, which is Dr. Shayne or myself for questions.

And so I'd like to at least have a general understanding of what the changes are and how it will affect our programs or our trainees. So that is one of the things I try to make sure that I continue to do is take advantage of that. And another thing I do, which people may find super boring, is that I print off the requirements and I read them. I read them.

At least somebody does.

I read them from cover to cover, highlight and make notes, see if there's changes that we need to do as an institution. So those are the typical things that I do. In terms of being a supervisor, I try to take advantage of the different sessions that Emory has for leadership training or there are different things on YouTube that I try to look at to see how I can be more effective in terms of being a supervisor to those under me and making sure that they have the things that they need to grow in their role as well.

That's great. That's great. So what advice would you give to someone interested in doing the same type of leadership roles that you have?

Take advantage of the resources that are available, the free resources that are available. If there's someone who wants to do something along the same lines that I'm doing or if there's another... Someone who sees someone that my goal is to get where you are. Ask that person to mentor you, make time to sit with that person and just talk to them about the different steps that they took to get to that role, the challenges that comes with that role, what that person needs to do to get ahead in that role. So those are the things that I would suggest.

And again, I think the most important thing is having the confidence to know that I'm capable of getting to this specific role if I put in the work for it and not think that someone is supposed to give it to me. I think it comes with hard work. And again, I'm thankful for those who taught me, who worked with me, who sat with me and told me sometimes, "Okay, Taiwana, you probably need to go in this direction or you need to look at things this way." And sometimes I was told, "No, this is not the best way to do it." And you have to be able to sit with that. Every no is not a bad thing. So that would probably be my advice.

Thank you, and I think that's really powerful, the last bit you said that every no is not a bad thing.

Right.

And the importance of sitting with it, because we sometimes only understand it way later when reflecting that, "Oh yeah, that's why that was a good..."

Right. And I think sometimes you think... I've even had to experience where I thought I was ready for a different role, a higher role back in my years of being here at Emory, and really, I wasn't, and someone talked to me and we sat down and talked about, "Is this really what you want to do because this is what it entails, and do you think that you're ready for this level yet?" And I had to sit with that and be honest with myself and say, "No, I honestly can say I'm not ready for that." And so I had to just develop myself and then eventually I was able to get to that next role.

Thank you.

And that comes with someone knowing you and someone that you're comfortable with having an honest conversation and comfortable with hearing that feedback and knowing that it's all for your growth.

Indeed. Indeed. And so thinking about your growth, but you work in education, so there's other people's growth too all around you, how do you support or expand education in your profession or through your roles?

Again, I think for the people that I supervise, I feel like it is my responsibility to make sure that they have the opportunities that I was given. So one of the things that I think Emory is great at is having these different groups of training is the Administrative Professionals cohort. And then they have the Essentials of Leadership. So one of the things that we are allowed to do is to make sure that our people in our office get some type of professional development, and that's something that I advocate for those that I supervise.

And again, even when we have our one-on-one meetings, I always want them to ask me questions. I try to instill what I have, what's been given to me and to them because I think it's good to make sure that someone else knows what you're doing. It shouldn't be my baby. It's like, this is mine, no one else can have it. No, I want to be able to... If I'm away, the task should still go on. So I think it's important to make sure that there's someone in our office who knows what you're doing and that you're training them or teaching them how to do a specific task. So at some point, you can let that go and then give them a chance to thrive in that role and go to a higher level.

So important. So important. Thank you. So recognizing you have done so many things in order to keep the ship afloat as they say, what would you say contributed to your biggest successes thus far?

I think having mentors that were here, were in my corner, and was able to teach me different things, was able to get me to look at things differently, was able to tell me, "Okay, Taiwana, you may need to hold off on such and such for a year." And I think another thing that I contribute to myself is just being humble with where you are. I don't feel like I have reached to... I don't feel like I'm, I'll say all of that or something. I'm still humble. I still come to work. I feel like I still treat everyone as if I was that Admin Assistant.

My title does not mean that I cannot talk to everyone the same. I just feel like for me is to be an example for those around me because people see you and they may not ever speak to you, but they can see how you interact with people. They can see your character. So that is one of the things that I really contribute is just continuing to be who I was on November 2007 in terms of how I relate and interact with people.

Yes. And how powerful that has been, knowing who you are and keeping that front and center as you grow.

Yes, right, and I haven't changed. I still love to laugh. I still love to joke and we'll have little dance parties. I still love to do that. So me as a person, I have different responsibilities, but I still want people to be able to come and talk to me if they have a concern or something.

So considering you've done a lot of things, what has been one of your greatest successes thus far?

I would probably say the day that I was looking on ACGME, our accreditation website, and I saw that I got the award for Institutional Coordinator... I'm sorry, the ACGME Institutional Coordinator award for 2020. I know that our previous DIO, Dr. Aaron was working to get that award for me, but you know. With ACGME, sometimes you have to try different times. So I really wasn't expecting it, but one night on a Saturday, because I had nothing else to do and I like to look at different things on our website just to make sure that I have the information, I went to ACGME and just looked at the awardees and my name was there, and I actually clicked off the page and I was like, "What? Wait a minute." And then I clicked back on it and I was just sitting there. I was like, "Wow, this is such an honor just to have people, my colleagues and peers write nominations for me to get that award."

So I would say to date, that has been one of the greatest successes. I was able to share that with my uncle and my grandmother who basically raised me and they were so proud of me and said that my mother who passed away when I was nine would've been so proud of me. So that is one of the biggest probably successes. And for them to see that in 2020, because they both passed away. My uncle and my grandmother passed away last year. So for them to know that the Taiwana that they saw that was, I would say a wild child back then, that she grew up and she learned and she was able to get to this role. So that would probably be one of the biggest things for me.

That is so powerful and I agree. When I think about all that you do with accreditation and keeping track of all of those programs, it is definitely an amazing success. And I'm so glad that your family was around to see that growth and achievement.

Yeah, that was such a blessing. And I tell people that when people see me or certain people, you don't look like what you've been through. So I think it's good to... You see someone who's in a role that you aspire to get to, to sit down with that person and learn their story so that you could get appreciation of what it took to get to that role or even to that position.

Indeed. Indeed. And so as you said, you're constantly recognizing that you've got to adapt because change is constant. What would you say are your biggest growth opportunities currently?

So I think one of the things I would love to grow into more is just learning more operationally about the GME office, because I know accreditation piece, but to know what it takes to run a whole GME office, I think that would be another growth opportunity, because I'm on one aspect or spectrum of Graduate Medical Education. And one of the things that is becoming more frequent in terms of the task is understanding more about this FTE, the requirements for Faculty, Program Directors, and Program Coordinators. I work with our School of Medicine Business and Finance office to make sure that our programs are getting the right amount of FTE support as their program specific requirements allows, but it's so much bigger than that. And it's just more things that I want to know about GME as a whole. So I would say that.

Yeah, yeah. I'm like, accreditation is so big.

I know. And it's like when I first started was okay, accreditation, making sure all the programs turn in things on time and that we create reports so that our Oversight Committee can see how we're doing. But now, as ACGME, it's changing things that requires me to get deeper into things. And so again, I know about it, I know how to give information, but there's so much in the background that I would just like to know, just for me so I can get a better sense of what's really going on because we are continuing to grow and it's just like, wow.

One of the things that I remember Dr. Zaidan told me, he was the DIO, the Associate Dean when I started in 2007. One of the things he told me that I remember to this day is that he said, "This place is job security," where I am. And I totally, totally agree. It is job security because it's always room, to growth, places to grow and to change. And so there's always something changing. So I'm so thankful for that.

So true because just thinking about the range of things and yeah, I think that is powerful that it's a great space for continued growth.

Oh yes, absolutely.

So as you reflect on the things that you've done, what do you love most about your work and what you do?

I know people would think this is weird, but I love reading about accreditation. I love reading about requirements. I love making sure that our programs are remaining compliant, that they are turning in things. It's a lot but I do enjoy it. Doing reports. Like today I'm working on our survey reports so I can provide to our Oversight Committee. Those are things that I like and I wouldn't take anything for it. That's just where I am right now. And again, just to know when I first started as this Admin Assistant, I would've never thought that I would get to the place where I can actually go into the database and read different things and understand different things. And even to have program directors set up meetings with me so that I can explain stuff to them, that is amazing to me sometimes. Sometimes I just sit back and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I'm so thankful and grateful for this opportunity."

Indeed. Indeed. As somebody who has turned to you many a time, we appreciate you for it.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Thank you so much.

So overall, as you reflect on your experiences to date, what would you say your passions are around education in general right now?

One of the things that I have grown a passion for is making sure that our GME community has a space to connect with each other and to learn from each other. Emory is a big place and we have training programs in different locations, but it's the Program Director who is the one who has oversight over those programs. So one of the passions, one of the things that I know that we are working towards is building a greater community with GME and Program Directors in terms of having the Program Directors come together to share best practices, to ask each other questions, because you can come to the GME office and ask us questions, but I think it's better for the Program Directors when they can talk to each other.

And we have Program Director workshops and meetings, but I think it's something different if we can have this space for them to just come to together and just ask questions. So that is one of the things that I'm passionate about, is in terms of our training programs and directors, having the things that they need to train our residents and our fellows. And again, one of the most important things is that our institution continues to have continued accreditation with no citations. That's also a big thing that speaks to how we as a community is making sure that our institution is thriving as a whole.

Wonderful, wonderful work. So recognizing that you are more than your career, what are some things you do outside of work to help maintain joy in life and practice?

So I do love spending time with my grandbaby. She is five, her name is Erin. I do enjoy spending time with my husband and I. We will go out and just hang out together. Just have that time for us. I do take time and space to go and worship at my church. That's one of the things that's most important to me is that I have that time for worship and I love to read books. One of the books that I'm reading now is a book called Oneness Embraced by Tony Evans. And I love to draw, that's one of the things I don't do a lot, but when I have the time to just sit and be, I do like to draw.

Oh, I love that. See, something I had no idea about you.

Yes, I do, but I just can't sit and just draw. It has to be in a time where I have time to think and to just do nothing, that I have sketch pads and stuff. So I have drawn different things and I take courses on YouTube on how to draw different things. So that's something that I really enjoy.

I love that, and it's linked to at the beginning you talked about creativity and how important that is.

Oh yeah. Yeah. So that's what I like to do. And sometimes I just like to sit and just watch TV. I like to watch old shows and stuff just to... If I just need to just blank out, I'll just sit and just go to one of those old stations and just watch old shows just to do something, but that's me.

I love that, and thank you so much for taking your time to share a piece of you with us today. Those were my main questions for you, but before we let you go, are there any last words of wisdom that you'd like to share with aspiring educators or education leaders?

Just to believe in yourself and do not let your past determine your future, that you can achieve anything that you work hard towards. It's going to take work, but it's worth it in the end. And just know that you can do it, and I think most important, believe in yourself.

Powerful, wise words to end off with. Thank you again, Taiwana.

Thank you. And it's such an honor to talk to you, Ulemu. I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Welcome.