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Treating yourself nicely, with Tina Dreisicke
Episode 1215th November 2022 • I'm Back! • Serena Savini
00:00:00 00:22:58

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Serena talks with Tina Dreisicke, Agile Learning Professional, Coach & Entrepreneur , about how can we apply the Agile Methodology to coming back to work, the challenge of well being and practical advice to create a welcoming environment at work.

You can find more information about Tina here

Transcripts

Tina:

My neurons have my learnings and my experiences from the past day.

Tina:

So somehow I'm a little bit different.

Tina:

I changed, I have different emotions than the day before I feel a bit different.

Tina:

To just understand that we are every day, a little bit, a different

Tina:

person is necessary to implement some changes at our workplace.

Serena:

Welcome to and back to day I'm having conversations with Tina Drake.

Serena:

Ah, già, il learning facilitatore coaching consultant with di scarsa o kiwi up.

Serena:

Lei ha già il methodology Tu coming back to work of creating

Serena:

human centric barman farebbe one.

Serena:

e in conclusione step stuxnet Psicologico Safety Network.

Serena:

Welles continuò.

Serena:

So we were discussing about coming back and creating welcoming environment.

Serena:

And would you like to share something about that?

Tina:

Yes, I would love to.

Tina:

And, um, When I first heard about being back, I was.

Tina:

Oh, no.

Tina:

What should I talk about?

Tina:

Because I've never went from maternity leave.

Tina:

I never had some longer health issues, but then I realized it's

Tina:

all about the workplace culture.

Tina:

We have feeling that this is a place where I belong, where I've.

Tina:

Been seen where my person is valued.

Tina:

When I grew up, when I was a little child, I heard my parents coming home from

Tina:

work, always in the bad mood suffering.

Tina:

And I thought, oh no.

Tina:

Oh no.

Tina:

When I'm getting older, when.

Tina:

School.

Tina:

And when I need to start working all the happy life will be over.

Tina:

Then it will be the same for me.

Tina:

So I thought, no, there need to be a different way to have a good work life.

Tina:

And this is why I got interested in all the topics of culture at

Tina:

work of other ways of working.

Tina:

I study design thinking and I realized no work can be totally different and

Tina:

very much about the person itself.

Serena:

And how can we use design thinking to do that, to

Serena:

imagine a new way of working.

Tina:

Yeah, that's a really good question.

Tina:

And it's quite simple and design thinking.

Tina:

It's all about human centered design.

Tina:

So we put the human at first and nowadays where, especially due to the world of

Tina:

talent we currently face, there is a tool we're just becoming more famous.

Tina:

People start to map out employee journeys, especially in HR.

Tina:

For example, we think about all the touchpoints and

Tina:

employee has in their yeah.

Tina:

Work life beginning, maybe from the first interview beginning

Tina:

from the first day at work.

Tina:

So how does the person feel during that time?

Tina:

And this journey can be mapped out during a long period or maybe just a small one.

Tina:

Comparing all these different journeys from these employees will help us

Tina:

to understand individual as well as common pain points and these points.

Tina:

These are the points of improvement, where from an organizational perspective,

Tina:

we need to design experiences for our employees, which make them

Tina:

happy, which make them satisfied.

Tina:

So people will stay with us and not leave and go somewhere else.

GMT:

00:03:24

And Do you think we are really

GMT:

00:03:27

able to do it right now?

GMT:

00:03:30

Or we are still facing some cultural resistance in some companies.

Tina:

we are able of course, and.

Tina:

We are still facing challenges.

Tina:

first of all, I think there are several.

Tina:

So the first one is from a leadership perspective.

Tina:

This thing is cost resources.

Tina:

This cost time, this cost energy.

Tina:

So we need to have a priority.

Tina:

To focus on this topic to really say, okay, this is a priority right now.

Tina:

We wanna focus on employee experience design.

Tina:

So let's do something.

Tina:

This is not something which I can do on top of my daily work.

Tina:

So there need to be better roles for example, or a longer project.

Tina:

The second one is from an employee perspective.

Tina:

I'm not used to be asked best questions when maybe I'm in a very traditional

Tina:

organization and people start to tell me, so please tell me, Tina, how do

Tina:

you feel during your first interview?

Tina:

What was good?

Tina:

What was bad?

Tina:

And then later on.

Tina:

Maybe I'm a bit confused and I'm afraid to tell the truth because there is

Tina:

nothing like psychological safetyness.

Tina:

So the culture is not ready though.

Tina:

I'm not able to open up because I'm not used to it.

Tina:

And maybe, I don't know how I felt during the interview because me as a person.

Tina:

I'm not used to reflection.

Tina:

I'm not used to ask myself these questions.

Tina:

So there are several challenges when we talk about this.

Serena:

And this is also a challenge with.

Serena:

Rise of burnouts because it's really hard, I think, to do prevention because

Serena:

not always, we have the psychological safety or the openness to ask the

Serena:

right questions, to open the space to say, Something is not working.

Serena:

And then we wait until.

Serena:

Something happened.

Serena:

Do you think we can do something in the prevention?

Tina:

Yes, I think so.

Tina:

Definitely.

Tina:

And therefore I would like to come back to my understanding of the phrase

Tina:

I'm back because for me, it's about dealing with change and as we all

Tina:

know, now change is the only constant.

Tina:

So basically every morning when I wake up.

Tina:

There is the moment of, oh, I'm back because I wake up as

Tina:

a slightly different person.

Tina:

My neurons have my learnings and my experiences from the past day.

Tina:

So somehow I'm a little bit different.

Tina:

I changed, I have different emotions than the day before I feel a bit different.

Tina:

To just understand that we are every day, a little bit, a different

Tina:

person is necessary to implement some changes at our workplace.

Tina:

a simple hack is just starting with check-ins in the morning with a team.

Tina:

Maybe once a week, there is leadership involved.

Tina:

So we just have 10 minutes, 15 minutes of how are you doing today?

Tina:

What's up?

Tina:

Tell me it's just about how do I arrive here?

Tina:

I can say it out loud.

Tina:

It's a learning process as well.

Tina:

These check-ins, they start usually quite formal, but at some point

Tina:

people will start to open up and then day by day, we will more have

Tina:

this psychological safetyness at work because we have it every day.

Tina:

It's a routine.

Tina:

It gives me some security and.

Tina:

For the leadership side, we need the approach of a servant leader.

Tina:

That means there is someone who's asking the question, Tina, how can I help you?

Tina:

Where do you need support?

Tina:

Where do you have some impediments, some challenges.

Tina:

This is for me, what good leadership is all about nowadays?

Tina:

And then, because I'm coming from the agile coach wall in the past where

Tina:

we talk about efficient teamwork I have experienced tension based

Tina:

work and I really love the concept it's coming from Holocracy where

Tina:

we have nearly no formal H piece.

Tina:

And the tension based work is bringing.

Tina:

Tensions, not problems.

Tina:

Tensions makes them normal.

Tina:

So we talk about them.

Tina:

So it's it's easy to have within the team attention backlog, where

Tina:

everyone is just putting something.

Tina:

What is challenging me right now.

Tina:

And then it's transparent.

Tina:

It's seen for everyone who is somehow involved with me.

Tina:

And then once per week, we can talk about how to solve the tension.

Tina:

There is a very structured way.

Tina:

I don't wanna go into too much detail, but these tensions can be clustered.

Tina:

So there is a space for personal tension.

Tina:

There is a space for cultural.

Tina:

So within my team, there is a space for governance tension.

Tina:

So that makes it easy.

Tina:

To bring myself as a woo person at work and to regarding your question that

Tina:

can prevent burnout because when I'm used to talk about everything, what is

Tina:

related to me, then people are listening.

Tina:

People can take care of it.

Tina:

Leadership can have an eye on it.

Tina:

So yeah, this is something what I really, from my experience can recommend

Tina:

for someone to experiment with.

GMT:

00:08:44

And it's really interesting for me

GMT:

00:08:46

because I see the connection between tension and intention, meaning that there

GMT:

00:08:53

is an intention to see those tensions.

GMT:

00:08:59

Would you like to say something about the importance of being

GMT:

00:09:04

intentional in doing this work?

Tina:

Yeah, for me, intention is very much connected to reflection

Tina:

and this is something which we should do more in my opinion.

Tina:

We tend to be busy all the time, because busyness is something which

Tina:

was related to, I don't know, you are engaged, you are motivated, you are

Tina:

smart, you are getting things done.

Tina:

but for me, Taking time to sit down, to reflect as much as guiding me to much more

Tina:

intentional work than just the busyness.

Tina:

We have so much noise all around.

Tina:

And when I say noise, all the distraction, all the push

Tina:

notifications, all the messages and news, and there is so much going on.

Tina:

So nowadays it's just important.

Tina:

To filter all that, to shut down the noise and to be able to concentrate

Tina:

on the stuff, what really matters to me and my work and to do so.

Tina:

and to do that with intention, we need these moments of maybe just looking

Tina:

out of the window, doing nothing for.

Tina:

Five minutes for 10 minutes, doesn't matter.

Tina:

But just having some emptiness in our head, in our mind using some

Tina:

breathing techniques, maybe for example.

Tina:

So this is helping to yeah.

Tina:

Bring intention to my work and to have more, I think then we have a lot

Tina:

better communications with our team colleagues, for example, because we.

Tina:

More able to have empathy with the other person.

Tina:

We are not stressed and rushing from just a to B.

Tina:

So we are more in our own center and our own balance and we

Tina:

can communicate even better.

GMT:

00:10:53

And this is connected for me

GMT:

00:10:56

uh, to the importance of rest and the importance of recovery.

GMT:

00:11:02

And we are not allowing ourself to create those spaces where we can rest.

GMT:

00:11:09

We can think we can listen to our bodies and we can recover.

GMT:

00:11:15

For example, how can I come back after a bad meeting, if I need

GMT:

00:11:21

to jump immediately to another meeting with all the stress on my.

GMT:

00:11:27

And without having the reflection on what went wrong in that

GMT:

00:11:32

meeting and this kind of things.

GMT:

00:11:35

I feel sometimes that jumping from one task to another, from one meeting

GMT:

00:11:41

to another, it's an escape to what is really underneath What do you think?

Tina:

Yes.

Tina:

I love that you bring up the topic and it makes me think of the current

Tina:

challenges organizations face.

Tina:

When we talk about office design, what do we do to bring back our

Tina:

employees to the office space?

Tina:

There is no need for me to go on a commute every day when I can do my work at home.

Tina:

The same as in the office space.

Tina:

But exactly about creating spaces, designing spaces for reflection,

Tina:

why not having an office space where we have, of course, some meeting

Tina:

rooms, but beside that we have rooms for maybe creativity sessions.

Tina:

We have rooms for down.

Tina:

So I experienced my past.

Tina:

Employer had a, like a space where we could have a little nap during lunch

Tina:

break, for example, and thinking about this, creating these spaces, redesigning

Tina:

our offices and making it possible for our employees to have a space to rest

Tina:

there and to have a space for reflection.

Tina:

That could be a great way to bring people back to the office.

Tina:

Actually.

GMT:

00:13:02

I agree.

GMT:

00:13:04

And also we can think about the spaces into new ways of

GMT:

00:13:11

creating deeper connection.

GMT:

00:13:13

I meaning that it's not just having a meeting, a physical meeting, but is.

GMT:

00:13:21

Exploring the time that we are spending together to create a stronger, more

GMT:

00:13:28

deep bond and create psychological safety and these kind of things.

GMT:

00:13:36

How can we do that?

GMT:

00:13:37

I

Serena:

dunno, it's an open question.

Tina:

I think there is not one way.

Tina:

I think there are several ways to do so.

Tina:

For me.

Tina:

I like to bond with people, especially when I don't know them yet.

Tina:

It's sometimes for me a bit weird to like sit down, having a coffee, it feels a bit

Tina:

formal, but I love to play with people.

Tina:

I don't know.

Tina:

And then during that play immediately, there is a connection.

Tina:

There is fun because you laugh together when you share some emotions

Tina:

it immediately bonds with each other.

Tina:

So for example, Cliche in some startups where there is a kicker table

Tina:

around, but it really helps to do.

Tina:

Team building, especially so maybe there are people just hanging out.

Tina:

So you need to have different opportunities, I would say so

Tina:

because we are all different.

Tina:

Everyone has so individual needs and favors different

Tina:

approaches of getting together.

Tina:

It's just great to have, not just one possibility to bring people together.

Tina:

It's just to make a lot of different offers so people can choose

Tina:

between the things they like to do.

Tina:

So maybe for some people it's cooking lunch together in the lunch break.

Tina:

So for me, for example, it's easier when it's just a small group of

Tina:

people to connect with them may in the beginning, just three or four

Tina:

people, it's much more easier for me.

Tina:

There is maybe seven or eight, then I'm just stepping back,

Tina:

I'm getting a bit silent.

Tina:

So this is different from everyone I would say.

Tina:

And just think about this is something what people can think of when we talk

Tina:

about employee experience design.

Tina:

So what can I do to make people bond?

Tina:

And ask the people, I would say, always ask the people first and don't

Tina:

hide yourself and think about it.

Tina:

Just do it together.

Tina:

It's a common approach from everyone in your organization.

GMT:

00:15:42

Giving ownership of the

GMT:

00:15:44

co-creation of the space.

GMT:

00:15:45

I love that, but I have a question.

GMT:

00:15:49

Do you think we are allowing ourself to take ownership of our own

GMT:

00:15:56

space when we are working at home.

GMT:

00:15:59

Meaning that, do you think we are creating our own space at home that

GMT:

00:16:06

is aligned with our real needs?

GMT:

00:16:09

Or we are thinking, oh, I just need a table, a laptop phones.

GMT:

00:16:15

And I'm good.

Tina:

I think it's different.

Tina:

I just can talk about myself in the beginning.

Tina:

I was, I had Zal before COVID started.

Tina:

And then I came back in like when everyone already was doing home office.

Tina:

So I just said, In

GMT:

00:16:34

the

Tina:

kitchen on my table and said, okay how does it work?

Tina:

I have no idea.

Tina:

So will I sit here for eight hours?

Tina:

I don't know.

Tina:

And in the beginning it was just like that.

Tina:

So an uncomfortable chair, a kitchen table, and I didn't like that.

Tina:

People can see everything what's behind me.

Tina:

And yeah, it was difficult, but it evolved over time.

Tina:

So I think After a few months, I really sit down and I ask myself, okay, how can

Tina:

I design space for me room for me, where I feel comfortable working from home.

Tina:

It's not easy for everyone.

Tina:

People have kids, people don't have space and I did a lot of trainings

Tina:

during that time, the internet online.

Tina:

And I always told them.

Tina:

Try to figure out where you learn best in an online environment.

Tina:

The first training day, maybe sit on the sofa the next day.

Tina:

Sit on the, I don't know, sit on the floor, take a blanket on your back.

Tina:

Not just make yourself comfortable in a playful way, but we don't think about

Tina:

this stuff we need to, we need an input from someone else maybe who is saying.

Tina:

That doesn't need to be this way.

Tina:

We are just used to our habits.

Tina:

It's easy to not think about it.

Tina:

And when the pain is not as bad as it, maybe I can't sit anymore, then I will

Tina:

just stick with the chair, which isn't comfortable, but it's not that painful.

GMT:

00:18:03

And I have a tricky question.

GMT:

00:18:05

now, why do you think so difficult to take care of ourselves?

Tina:

I think the first one I mentioned, we love to have habits, so it's saving

Tina:

energy in our brain when we just do this stuff, like we always did it in the past.

Tina:

And the second one is.

Tina:

Maybe we should practice more self love.

Tina:

So we are not used to have some thoughts, like self-compassion,

Tina:

we tend to take care more of other people around us than on ourselves.

Tina:

And I recently.

Tina:

Read a book on self-compassion.

Tina:

I really liked it.

Tina:

I never had an idea that something like this is existing, even

Tina:

in a scientific environment.

Tina:

So there are actually studies out there which shows when you're kind to yourself,

Tina:

this is changing a lot in your life.

Tina:

And I would wish that this is something, what they have

Tina:

teach me when I was in school.

Tina:

How do I talk to myself?

Tina:

And yeah, I think we, we never learned.

Tina:

To say it like this in the end.

GMT:

00:19:16

any advice on how to practice

GMT:

00:19:19

self-compassion or self love in the workplace.

Tina:

Yes.

Tina:

So again, I need to come back to the point where I talked about reflection.

Tina:

So it's about realizing when I'm talking bad to myself.

Tina:

So this is happening just like unconscious.

Tina:

When I, maybe I I sent an email to my team lead and there is a typo,

Tina:

there is a mistake inside and I realized that after the email is gone.

Tina:

So then there is a little voice in my head, which, oh, Tina damn, you are

Tina:

always doing this stupid mistakes.

Tina:

Or Why don't you focus?

Tina:

You are so lazy.

Tina:

I don't know.

Tina:

These voice is coming all the time.

GMT:

00:20:04

I know all this voice

Serena:

is really well.

Tina:

Yes.

Tina:

this is strange when I realized it for the first time, this is not helpful at all.

Tina:

And I'm trying to be a good friend to all other people out there.

Tina:

I'm trying to empower them.

Tina:

But to myself, I'm not saying all these kind things.

Tina:

So now I start to observe myself during the day Which is a challenge because

Tina:

sometimes being busy means I'm not able to observe myself because I'm so

Tina:

focused on the projects I'm doing that.

Tina:

I'm not able to have these meta perspective if I'm just bad to myself

Tina:

again, because maybe I'm punishing in my head because I'm late with

Tina:

the deadline, something like this.

Tina:

So first thing is observing yourself.

Tina:

When is the voice coming up?

Tina:

And when do you

GMT:

00:20:56

talk

Tina:

badly to yourself?

Tina:

And then the second step, to nurture a second voice, which is coming and saying.

Tina:

Not Tina.

Tina:

Come on, hack yourself.

Tina:

Give yourself a hack.

Tina:

Treat yourself.

Tina:

Go for a little walk.

Tina:

You had a stress day.

Tina:

It's normal mistakes happen all the time to everyone.

Tina:

Take it with you more.

Tina:

It's not that bad actually.

Tina:

And yeah.

Tina:

Treat yourself nicely.

GMT:

00:21:24

can we say today to.

GMT:

00:21:28

To share some love to her.

Tina:

yeah, we can say that currently there are tough times to go through

Tina:

but in the end all will be good.

Tina:

Trust.

Tina:

Trust the process, Tina.

GMT:

00:21:44

And I can say to Tina that you are

GMT:

00:21:47

amazing and you are so generous with a kind soul and a beautiful mind.

Tina:

Uh, Thank you so much.

Tina:

I really want to give it back to you really you're so smiling all the time.

Tina:

I can feel your positive energy.

Serena:

Great.

Serena:

Anything else that you want to share?

Serena:

Before we close the conversation.

Tina:

Just in case you still have some time left, do your listener take

Tina:

a look at all the other episodes?

Tina:

I really quite insightful and it was a pleasure to be here.

Serena:

Thank you.

GMT:

00:22:24

So.

Tina:

Thank you.

Tina:

Thank you for listening to this episode, please share it with friends then needs

Tina:

to hear this important conversation.

Tina:

You can find more information in the description or on the website.

Tina:

pod.link/welcomeback.

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