Artwork for podcast A Closer Look at Frontline Initiative
Episode 3: Zoe Korengold from Lionsgate Academy in Shoreview, Minnesota on supporting students' psychological health and wellness
Episode 331st July 2023 • A Closer Look at Frontline Initiative • Institute on Community Integration, University of Minnesota
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Two-time Frontline Initiative author Zoe Korengold, who is on the support response team (SRT) at Lionsgate Academy, reflects on how they handle situations with students who are experiencing big emotions that are challenging in a way that is supportive and safe for everyone. Zoe shares their perspective as an autistic person, who didn’t have an Individual Education Plan (IEP) in school to support them, and how starting with students' strengths can make a huge difference in how students with disabilities view themselves.

Read Zoe Korengold's story: Supporting Students' Psychological Health and Wellness

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Frontline Initiative

Institute on Community Integration, University of Minnesota

National Alliance for Direct Support Professionals (NADSP)

Transcripts

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- Hi, my name is Chet Cheddar

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and I'll be your host for a closer look

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where we'll explore the most current

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and relevant topics covered

in Frontline Initiative,

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which is a magazine produced

by the National Alliance

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for Direct Support

Professionals in partnership

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with the University of

Minnesota's Institute on

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Community Integration.

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If you're wondering what

Frontline Initiative is all about,

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it's about the work that direct

support professionals do on

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a day-to-day basis as they

support people with intellectual

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and developmental disabilities.

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I'll be talking to authors

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and taking a closer look

at current practices,

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tools, and resources.

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So buckle up and let's hear

what the authors have to say.

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Today I'm gonna be talking with Zoe Kold.

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I got to interview Zoe

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for their article called

Supporting Students'

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Psychological Health and Wellness.

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In that interview, Zoey reflected on

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how they handle situations with students

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who are experiencing big emotions

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that sometimes get challenging.

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Zoey not only talks about

how important the training is

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that she and her teammates got,

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but also the teamwork that helps them

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and their coworkers

provide a safe situation

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for everybody when things

do get challenging at work.

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So let's get started.

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- Happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

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- We're thrilled to have you.

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Some of the listeners may be

wondering if an educational

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assistant is the same as a

direct support professional,

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and I'm gonna suggest

that we think that, think

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of it in terms of direct support

pro professionals working

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in different areas of the lives of people

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with intellectual disabilities.

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So let's think of educational assistance

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as doing the same sort of work

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as DSPs just in an educational setting.

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Just like job, job coaches

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or employment specialists are working

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to help people in vocational settings.

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And we do know that many DSPs

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or direct support workers,

support people in their homes

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or in their social lives.

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So Zoe, can you tell the the

listeners a little bit about

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you and the work that you

do at Lionsgate Academy?

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- Yeah, so I am non-binary.

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I'm autistic and I'm on

the support response team

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and crisis team at Lionsgate

Academy in Shoreview.

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It's my dream job.

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I love what I do every day

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and I love the kids that I'm around.

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It's a real honor to be with them

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and it's also a real honor

to be around team members

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that have been on the

crisis team for years, some

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of them over a decade.

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And to be able to learn from them

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and call them my mentors is like a real

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honor in my life. So

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- Yeah, that sounds really cool.

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How many years have you been at Lionsgate?

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- Yeah, so I started on the SRT team

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and crisis team this last

year coming into September.

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This will be my third year at Lionsgate.

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- And just to be clear, the SRT is the

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support response team, correct?

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- Correct. Yeah.

- Alright.

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And Lionsgate Academy, what is that?

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- What is Lionsgate Academy?

That's such a great question.

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The best place on Earth, like

let's just start with that.

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Sounds good. Heaven best people.

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Yeah. Lionsgate Academy is

basically a public charter school

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that was tailored specifically

for kiddos on the spectrum.

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But not everybody at Lionsgate

is a kiddo on the spectrum.

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We've got kids with just

different stuff going on.

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A lot of them are on some form of IEP

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or like a five, oh I think

it's called a 5 0 4 plan.

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Okay. So yeah.

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- And IEP stands for

- Individualized

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- Educational

- Educational

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- Plan.

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Yep.

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- You can tell that I'm not

really like on the academic side

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of things because I'm like,

well I know the acronym, but

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- Yeah, we get used to using acronyms.

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So yeah, I try to make sure

that we spell those out

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whenever possible 'cause

I don't always know

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what people are talking about.

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I did know that one though.

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- And it's a good thing for like people

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who might wanna go into this work too,

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that maybe it's a hard thing

to ask like what is an IEP?

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What is an acronym? You

know, like it's, it's tough.

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So it's a good thing to

clarify. Yeah, that's

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- A good question.

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What is an IEP?

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- An IEP

- In a nutshell

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- Can be a life saver to be honest.

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For a lot of kids it's like,

it's not just about academics.

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It's like about what helps them focus the

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great things about them.

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A lot of case managers

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and teachers start out

by writing the strengths

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of the students and

things to look forward to.

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Like if you're reading IEP for a new kid

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that you might not know, a lot

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of it is just the stuff they're

working on in their core

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subjects and also socially.

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And for a lot of these kids,

an IEP is truly a lifesaver,

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especially if they've had any amount

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of time without one in school.

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Those accommodations make

a really big difference.

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- Yeah, I bet. So it's really that plan

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that everybody can work from to make sure

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that you're really supporting the student

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with the things that they need.

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And also, as you said, I loved,

you know, starting out with

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what are that person's strengths

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and looking at that rather

than looking at any sort

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of deficits first.

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- Yeah, it's really great,

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especially since like my

own IEP didn't start out

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with my strengths just

went right into like

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what do you need to work on?

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What do you need to change?

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And that had a tremendous effect on,

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but reading through these IEPs

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and feeling like if I

handed this to the student,

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like the first thing

they're gonna do is smile

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and say like, wow, these people like think

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these things about me.

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And that's just a really special impact

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that we can have at Lionsgate, you know,

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- And and what a piece just on

thinking about the article is

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all about kind of that safety

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and that security for students'

psychological wellbeing.

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So it starts with that.

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- Yeah, it's a lot of little parts

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and pieces that go into

making people feel safe

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and people feel accepted and welcomed.

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- Zoe, tell me about how did

you get interested in working

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with kids on the spectrum

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or kids who has have

intellectual disabilities?

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- Yeah, I started working at

the Autism Society of Minnesota

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and I was like kind of doing a couple

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of their like zoo classes

and then I went to camp

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and camp hand in hand solidified for me

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that like not only do I

wanna do this for a living

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and be in my community

for like probably the rest

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of my life, but also like wow

I feel welcomed and seen here.

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I feel accepted and I feel

like I'm healing like those

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parts of myself that were not validated

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and I was told to put,

you know, to hide away.

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I felt very seen for the

first time in my life

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and that really solidified

for me like yep, this is

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where I belong is with my own people.

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- Wow. That camp experience

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as a a camp staff member

really made a huge

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impact on your life, didn't it?

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- Yeah, it made me the person I am today.

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- That's really, really awesome.

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Talk a little bit about your

education, your training

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to be in the position you are today.

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- Yeah, I feel like, to be honest, a lot

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of my training came from

being an autistic kid

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and sometimes like a lot of

the training came from like

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what I learned not to be

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and what I learned like not to

do from the people around me

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who just didn't see me for who I am

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and wasn't able to validate

me as an autistic child.

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So that was like a big

learning thing for me.

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But like when it comes to

actual training, I went

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to the U of M,

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- University of Minnesota. Yes.

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- Okay. Twin Cities. I got my

bachelor's majored in English.

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A lot of my training comes

from camp hand in hand as well.

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And then when you go to

Lionsgate they do the,

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it's like the NPI, like

nonviolent and like

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- Crisis intervention.

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- Yes, non-violent crisis intervention.

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They do a lot of that, which is good.

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- Yeah, that's a, a

nationally known course

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that helps people know

how to handle difficult

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situations a positive way.

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- I feel like everybody

should take that course

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or at least like read

through their workbook.

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It's, it's really helpful.

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- Yeah, there's a lot of

positive interventions in there

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that really help you think about how

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to handle situations in a

positive way to to really look for

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what is the outcome that you want

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and how's that gonna be the

safest not only physically

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but psychologically for the person

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who might be having a hard time.

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- Yeah, absolutely. And it

like helps you see things

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very objectively.

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Like for example, like if you

have a student that's very,

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like they might have ODD

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where they're very defiant, you know,

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that's kind of the term we use.

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I guess it lets you see

things objectively for like,

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okay, if if I'm getting pushback

for something, here's a way

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that I can react that won't like

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get me subjectively involved,

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but instead just lets them

know like these are the

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expectations.

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Like it's, this is what it is, you know,

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so it's, it's helpful to enter

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through things objectively

with that training.

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- Okay, cool. So earlier

we talked about the,

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the two teams that you're on.

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One is the support response team

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and the other is the crisis team.

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Can you tell me how they're different

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and then how they might

overlap if they do?

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- Yeah, absolutely. They

overlap all the time actually.

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So the support response

team is an on-call team

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that handles a lot of just like kind

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of on-call everyday things.

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This could vary from

emotionally supporting a student

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when they are going through a hard time

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and might just need space to be able

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to have the emotions that they have.

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This can be like if students are kind

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of getting into a verbal conflict in class

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or in a space and kind

of getting them apart so

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that they can have privacy

and also have processing time.

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We're also called for behaviors such

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as like if someone is having an emotion

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and needs to get it out

by getting physical.

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So throwing things

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or maybe hitting, you know, those types

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of behaviors we're called for.

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And the crisis team,

there's a lot of overlap

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'cause sometimes you'll

walk into an SRT call

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and know immediately

that it's a crisis call

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or it becomes a crisis call

when you need just more bodies

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to help facilitate the situation.

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So if there is a safety risk for example,

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I'm definitely calling the

crisis team to help the student

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that's having a hard time to

help the classroom be able

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to go out of the classroom and relocate.

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To help follow up with teachers

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and staff to make sure that they are okay

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and if they need support

wherever their class is,

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we help them with that as well.

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Sometimes if we need to remove

dangerous objects from a

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classroom, I'm definitely

calling the crisis team

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to help me move things out of a class

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or out of a space. So yeah.

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- Okay. So when you call the crisis team

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and people kind of start arriving,

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how do you know who's gonna do what?

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Because it sounded like there

were lots of moving parts

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to that, right?

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Somebody's gonna be

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with the person who's having a hard time,

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maybe more than one person.

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You're gonna have people

who are helping folks in the

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classroom kind of move to a

different area, touching base

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with the the teachers and the students

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because everybody can

be affected emotionally

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and sometimes phy

physically by a situation

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where a person has been acting out.

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- Yeah, thankfully the

team is very cohesive.

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So like, and we also really know our kids

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so when we walk into a room

for a specific student,

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we usually know what needs to happen.

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Direct communication also is such a gift.

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I'm able to say I need

you to get everything out

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of this room and they just start doing it

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or I need X, Y, Z and they go and get it.

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I'm very direct

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and I expect the same

out of my team members

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to tell me exactly what

needs to happen And a lot

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of it is just learning, like watch

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what other people do.

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So if there's other crisis

team members already on scene

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and they're, and I see them, you know,

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taking out a table from a room, I know

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that I'm gonna be taking stuff out too.

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But yeah, it just kind of depends

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and usually people are very, very direct

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and that's a really good thing to have.

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- Yeah, that's gotta be really helpful so

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that you know, you know what to do.

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Paying attention to what other

people are doing as well.

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Kind of knowing those

basic concepts of we need

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to make sure the environment is safe.

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What are some things in

there that could be used

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in an unsafe way

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and how do we make it safe

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for the person who's having a hard time?

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Right. Yeah,

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- Absolutely.

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And I'm really grateful

'cause our team is just

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like spot on.

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Just wonderful people

who have been doing this

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for a long time that I learn a lot from

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and that I can always go to

with questions. They're great.

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- That's really cool. In

your article you talked

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about really meeting the

student where they are

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to support their psychological

wellbeing and mental health.

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What strategies do you use

to get to know this student

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and identify what they may need

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to support their mental health?

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- So a lot

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of the times students

will actually tell you

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what they need. That's

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- Always

- Helpful, which is really cool.

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Like if they're able to communicate

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to me in whatever way that they need space

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or that they need privacy

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or that they with like a song to be played

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that makes them feel better.

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Just a number of things.

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Oftentimes students will

tell you what they need

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if they can't or if you don't

know them very well, it's kind

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of like looking in the toolbox

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and just being like, do

you wanna use this tool?

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You know for example like I

might offer a weighted blanket

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if someone's having a really hard time

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and it seems like a good time to ask,

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I might ask if they want hand squeezes

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or if they want the light

dimmed, if they'd like to go

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to the regulation station,

if they just need privacy.

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It's kind of like looking in that toolbox

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that I know is there and offering tools

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and seeing which ones work.

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And then once we figure out

which ones work, we kind

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of communicate that to

the rest of the team so

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that it's kind of like if Jimmy

over here has a hard time,

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again we know that this,

this and this works.

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And that way everybody can also be on the

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same page for Jimmy.

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- Yeah, for sure. And some

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of the things you mentioned

it made me think about

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really you need to know, know

the kid and kid the person

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and know what is it

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that they individually

need and respond to.

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'cause we know that some

people might need more sensory

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input like the weighted blanket

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or having their hands squeezed

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and others might need less

sensory input like dimming the

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lights or whatever their

particular need is.

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You also referenced a

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regulation, help me out here

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- Regulation station.

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- Tell me what that is please.

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- It's such an awesome thing.

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So Lionsgate has two regulation

stations also called the reg

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station and inside the

reg station you'll find

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like a red swing that

really hugs the body tight.

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You'll find a platform

swing which is really good

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for just like going back and forth.

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There's a projector that

will play calming music

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and calming videos.

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There's like a Brillo light

thing, there's a light bright,

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there's puzzles,

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- There's a, what do you

mean by a Brillo light sheet?

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- It's like it's not,

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I don't think it's called

a Brillo light actually.

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It's like, you know that

thing that looks like hair,

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like it has a base

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and then there's, it looks

like these little silver hair

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sticking out of it and they

all light up different colors

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and you can kind of like put

them in a tube with your hand

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or you can just like feel

them really good sensory

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tool. It's my favorite thing.

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- We'll have to look these up.

Yeah. Yes, they sound really

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- Cool.

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Buy one, not sponsored

but they're the best

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and it's just, it's a great

place to get regulated

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and get a calm again.

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- Yeah find out or figure

out what that kid needs

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and they're probably gonna be somewhat

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attracted to that thing.

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And my guess is they've probably

been in at the regulation

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station and had a chance

when they're calm to kind of

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pick things out and know what's in there.

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Is that, would that be accurate?

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- Yeah, we definitely

try to get kids in there.

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Like a lot of SRTs job

too is to do a lot of like

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kind of like,

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I wanna say like

preliminary, I don't know if

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that's the right word,

but basically like help

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kids stay regulated before

things get to like a level four

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or five type of situation or

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before they get dysregulated basically.

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So part of that is like going on a walk

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or going to the reg station

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and they might just need

like a break in general.

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Like they're not feeling

necessarily dysregulated

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but they might just need a break

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and the reg stationer is

a really good place to go

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to like figure out what they

like and what will help them

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and for them to figure out

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what they like and what will help them.

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- Alright, let's talk a little bit about,

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you used a couple terms feeling

regulated or dysregulated.

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Tell us a little bit more,

kind of define that for us.

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- I kind of have

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feelings about the terms

regulated and dysregulated.

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I think it's often better to

refer to the actual emotion

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that's going on, but in

academics especially,

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we use the terms dysregulated

and regulated a lot.

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Regulated basically means like calm

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and ready to learn from what I can see.

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- So Okay, that makes

- Sense. Yeah, your body is calm,

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your mind is calm, you're

not feeling too fast,

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you're not feeling too slow,

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you're feeling just like

just right quote unquote

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and dysregulated, which is where I kind

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of get like eh feelings about it.

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'cause like dysregulated can

mean a plethora of things.

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It's kind of like an

ambiguous term in my opinion.

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It can mean that you're really angry

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and maybe you're throwing things.

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It can mean that your

body is moving too fast

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and you're kind of like

not able to sit still.

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It can mean that you're

joking around too much

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and you're not able to listen,

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you're not able to concentrate.

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It can be a number of things

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but just basically like in a

state where you're not ready

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to be calm and ready to learn pretty much.

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- Okay, that's super helpful.

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The other terms you used were

level four and level five.

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I'm, I'm assuming those are

terms that you use in a school.

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What do you mean by those?

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- So the levels are kind of

out like quote unquote outdated

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or at least our occupational

therapists have been working on

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like instead of saying

you're at a four say

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that you're anxious

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or instead of saying you're

at a level five, you can say

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that you're furious.

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I use it for myself personally

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because sometimes as an

autistic person when I'm feeling

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dysregulated it is very

helpful for me to say

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to someone immediately I'm at a level four

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or five I need to bounce

when I don't have the words

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or when I just don't wanna tell somebody.

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Like I'm feeling furious, right?

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It's like an easier way for

me to access what I need.

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But I also do understand

like, you know, if our kids go

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to an employer in a couple years

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and say I'm a four,

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their employer's not gonna

necessarily like understand,

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but like a four is kind of like

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where you're teetering on

being out of control in

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that type of state.

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And a level five is where

you feel out of control

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of your body or like your emotions.

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- Alright, so those, those

levels kind of, there's a kind

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of a definition for that

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and it helps kids identify

like where they're at

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and how they can express to

someone else where they're at.

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Yeah. At least in in the school

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setting they're in currently.

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Yeah. Yeah. Alright, well

thanks that's super helpful.

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One of the other things

you kind of touched on

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and I like to think about

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or I thought about when

we did the interview

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for your article is I think one

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of the most important

intervention strategies is often

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skipped and that's the debriefing

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after a situation has occurred.

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And it can be hard to get

back to that for a number

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of reasons, especially in a school

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or if you're working in a group home

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or an employment setting because

things move along quickly.

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Not to mention there's

often big feelings about

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what happened and you really have to kind

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of wait till everybody has kind

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of calmed down and everybody's

ready to talk about it.

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Can you tell me like how

do you all handle that and,

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and why I guess more is, you

know, talk about the importance

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of the debrief and

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how do you think students

really benefit from that?

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- Yeah, debriefs are very

beneficial for our students

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because it's not only like

a a space to debrief about

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what happened and how you

felt and get clarification,

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but also to clarify

like what do we do next?

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So at least at Lionsgate

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and our crisis team will

start by asking everybody

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how they're doing, going through

the facts of what happened,

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what people decided to do,

how they felt, what was hard

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in those situations and what do we do now.

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And that's very helpful to be

able to plan for the future.

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Basically like, okay, this happened,

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we need a different plan

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or what strategies

worked, what didn't work?

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Who needs to be communicated

with that type of thing.

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Debriefs are very important

for not only kind of

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having closure on what happened

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but also opening the door

to like a better future

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for our students and for

our staff pretty much.

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- Yeah, boy, I totally

agree with you on that.

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Also in your article you reminded people

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that they're not alone

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and they should find support

from others in the organization

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who can help them with the

strategies, provide training,

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whatever support people

need, you encourage them

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to work closely with the

person who's being supported

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to learn how they really wanna

be supported when they're in

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a bad space

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or when they're, you know,

having a difficult time.

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Tell us more about this

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and why do you think it's so important?

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Zoey?

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- I think if you're not able to feel

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safe within yourself, it's really hard

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to help other people feel safe.

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And that's why it's really important

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to have those core people

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wherever you are working in

this particular like position I

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guess that you know, you can

come to to them at any time

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with like, hey, I am

feeling this about this

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and I need to talk about it.

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To be able to have closure on

it, that's very important so

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that you can feel safe

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and that that feeling doesn't compound

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and start kind of branching into new calls

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and new crises that you're gonna take.

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So that support is very important

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and when we have that support

for each other, it's easier

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to mirror it for our students as well

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and it's easier for us to

collaborate on what's best

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for our students.

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- Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah.

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Do you have any final

words of encouragement

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or wisdom to share with the listeners?

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- I think that everybody

should know that the kids

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who are the toughest,

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who give you quote

unquote the hardest time

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or are like the quote unquote

quote unquote problem.

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Kids are really like the

best kids in the world.

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They are the best, they're

the most charismatic,

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the most multidimensional souls.

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And they've been through a

lot of things that also like

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give them a totally different

perspective to everything.

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And I wish that more people could see that

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and approach them the way that I see them

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and the way that my team them

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'cause that's ultimately

what they deserve.

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And I've seen these kids who

come into Lionsgate with,

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you know, this past of

people not believing in them

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and feeling alienated

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and they just flourish when

we allow them to flourish,

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when we allow them to be who they are

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and see them for who they are.

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And I had encourage everyone, like try

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to see your students or your

clients not as your client

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or your student, but for

who they are individually

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and outside of this structure.

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Who are they and who are they going to be?

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Because a lot of what

we do right now is going

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to create the person that's

going to just completely evolve

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and transform

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and show us like the magic

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that's been there all along, you know?

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And that's like my favorite

part of this job is being able

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to do that and knowing that

little Zoe deserve that too.

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And little Zoe gets that now, you know?

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But yeah, I guess that's my parting words.

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- Oh, thank you so much Zoe.

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This has just been a

pleasure visiting with you

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and learning more from you

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and the joy that you have for the work

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that you do is just contagious.

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So thank you. Thank you so much.

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Not only for being a two-time author,

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but now also being a podcaster with us.

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We really appreciate it.

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- Yeah, it was wonderful.

Thanks for having me.

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- Absolutely. And thank

you to the listeners

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for tuning in today.

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We appreciate you

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and we can, you can find

other episodes of this podcast

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as well as another podcast

called Health Matters

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for direct support on

your favorite podcast

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streaming services.

Speaker:

Thanks again, Zoey, and have a great day.

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