Two-time Frontline Initiative author Zoe Korengold, who is on the support response team (SRT) at Lionsgate Academy, reflects on how they handle situations with students who are experiencing big emotions that are challenging in a way that is supportive and safe for everyone. Zoe shares their perspective as an autistic person, who didn’t have an Individual Education Plan (IEP) in school to support them, and how starting with students' strengths can make a huge difference in how students with disabilities view themselves.

Read Zoe Korengold's story: Supporting Students' Psychological Health and Wellness

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Frontline Initiative

Institute on Community Integration, University of Minnesota

National Alliance for Direct Support Professionals (NADSP)

- Hi, my name is Chet Cheddar

and I'll be your host for a closer look

where we'll explore the most current

and relevant topics covered

in Frontline Initiative,

which is a magazine produced

by the National Alliance

for Direct Support

Professionals in partnership

with the University of

Minnesota's Institute on

Community Integration.

If you're wondering what

Frontline Initiative is all about,

it's about the work that direct

support professionals do on

a day-to-day basis as they

support people with intellectual

and developmental disabilities.

I'll be talking to authors

and taking a closer look

at current practices,

tools, and resources.

So buckle up and let's hear

what the authors have to say.

Today I'm gonna be talking with Zoe Kold.

I got to interview Zoe

for their article called

Supporting Students'

Psychological Health and Wellness.

In that interview, Zoey reflected on

how they handle situations with students

who are experiencing big emotions

that sometimes get challenging.

Zoey not only talks about

how important the training is

that she and her teammates got,

but also the teamwork that helps them

and their coworkers

provide a safe situation

for everybody when things

do get challenging at work.

So let's get started.

- Happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

- We're thrilled to have you.

Some of the listeners may be

wondering if an educational

assistant is the same as a

direct support professional,

and I'm gonna suggest

that we think that, think

of it in terms of direct support

pro professionals working

in different areas of the lives of people

with intellectual disabilities.

So let's think of educational assistance

as doing the same sort of work

as DSPs just in an educational setting.

Just like job, job coaches

or employment specialists are working

to help people in vocational settings.

And we do know that many DSPs

or direct support workers,

support people in their homes

or in their social lives.

So Zoe, can you tell the the

listeners a little bit about

you and the work that you

do at Lionsgate Academy?

- Yeah, so I am non-binary.

I'm autistic and I'm on

the support response team

and crisis team at Lionsgate

Academy in Shoreview.

It's my dream job.

I love what I do every day

and I love the kids that I'm around.

It's a real honor to be with them

and it's also a real honor

to be around team members

that have been on the

crisis team for years, some

of them over a decade.

And to be able to learn from them

and call them my mentors is like a real

honor in my life. So

- Yeah, that sounds really cool.

How many years have you been at Lionsgate?

- Yeah, so I started on the SRT team

and crisis team this last

year coming into September.

This will be my third year at Lionsgate.

- And just to be clear, the SRT is the

support response team, correct?

- Correct. Yeah.

- Alright.

And Lionsgate Academy, what is that?

- What is Lionsgate Academy?

That's such a great question.

The best place on Earth, like

let's just start with that.

Sounds good. Heaven best people.

Yeah. Lionsgate Academy is

basically a public charter school

that was tailored specifically

for kiddos on the spectrum.

But not everybody at Lionsgate

is a kiddo on the spectrum.

We've got kids with just

different stuff going on.

A lot of them are on some form of IEP

or like a five, oh I think

it's called a 5 0 4 plan.

Okay. So yeah.

- And IEP stands for

- Individualized

- Educational

- Educational

- Plan.

Yep.

- You can tell that I'm not

really like on the academic side

of things because I'm like,

well I know the acronym, but

- Yeah, we get used to using acronyms.

So yeah, I try to make sure

that we spell those out

whenever possible 'cause

I don't always know

what people are talking about.

I did know that one though.

- And it's a good thing for like people

who might wanna go into this work too,

that maybe it's a hard thing

to ask like what is an IEP?

What is an acronym? You

know, like it's, it's tough.

So it's a good thing to

clarify. Yeah, that's

- A good question.

What is an IEP?

- An IEP

- In a nutshell

- Can be a life saver to be honest.

For a lot of kids it's like,

it's not just about academics.

It's like about what helps them focus the

great things about them.

A lot of case managers

and teachers start out

by writing the strengths

of the students and

things to look forward to.

Like if you're reading IEP for a new kid

that you might not know, a lot

of it is just the stuff they're

working on in their core

subjects and also socially.

And for a lot of these kids,

an IEP is truly a lifesaver,

especially if they've had any amount

of time without one in school.

Those accommodations make

a really big difference.

- Yeah, I bet. So it's really that plan

that everybody can work from to make sure

that you're really supporting the student

with the things that they need.

And also, as you said, I loved,

you know, starting out with

what are that person's strengths

and looking at that rather

than looking at any sort

of deficits first.

- Yeah, it's really great,

especially since like my

own IEP didn't start out

with my strengths just

went right into like

what do you need to work on?

What do you need to change?

And that had a tremendous effect on,

but reading through these IEPs

and feeling like if I

handed this to the student,

like the first thing

they're gonna do is smile

and say like, wow, these people like think

these things about me.

And that's just a really special impact

that we can have at Lionsgate, you know,

- And and what a piece just on

thinking about the article is

all about kind of that safety

and that security for students'

psychological wellbeing.

So it starts with that.

- Yeah, it's a lot of little parts

and pieces that go into

making people feel safe

and people feel accepted and welcomed.

- Zoe, tell me about how did

you get interested in working

with kids on the spectrum

or kids who has have

intellectual disabilities?

- Yeah, I started working at

the Autism Society of Minnesota

and I was like kind of doing a couple

of their like zoo classes

and then I went to camp

and camp hand in hand solidified for me

that like not only do I

wanna do this for a living

and be in my community

for like probably the rest

of my life, but also like wow

I feel welcomed and seen here.

I feel accepted and I feel

like I'm healing like those

parts of myself that were not validated

and I was told to put,

you know, to hide away.

I felt very seen for the

first time in my life

and that really solidified

for me like yep, this is

where I belong is with my own people.

- Wow. That camp experience

as a a camp staff member

really made a huge

impact on your life, didn't it?

- Yeah, it made me the person I am today.

- That's really, really awesome.

Talk a little bit about your

education, your training

to be in the position you are today.

- Yeah, I feel like, to be honest, a lot

of my training came from

being an autistic kid

and sometimes like a lot of

the training came from like

what I learned not to be

and what I learned like not to

do from the people around me

who just didn't see me for who I am

and wasn't able to validate

me as an autistic child.

So that was like a big

learning thing for me.

But like when it comes to

actual training, I went

to the U of M,

- University of Minnesota. Yes.

- Okay. Twin Cities. I got my

bachelor's majored in English.

A lot of my training comes

from camp hand in hand as well.

And then when you go to

Lionsgate they do the,

it's like the NPI, like

nonviolent and like

- Crisis intervention.

- Yes, non-violent crisis intervention.

They do a lot of that, which is good.

- Yeah, that's a, a

nationally known course

that helps people know

how to handle difficult

situations a positive way.

- I feel like everybody

should take that course

or at least like read

through their workbook.

It's, it's really helpful.

- Yeah, there's a lot of

positive interventions in there

that really help you think about how

to handle situations in a

positive way to to really look for

what is the outcome that you want

and how's that gonna be the

safest not only physically

but psychologically for the person

who might be having a hard time.

- Yeah, absolutely. And it

like helps you see things

very objectively.

Like for example, like if you

have a student that's very,

like they might have ODD

where they're very defiant, you know,

that's kind of the term we use.

I guess it lets you see

things objectively for like,

okay, if if I'm getting pushback

for something, here's a way

that I can react that won't like

get me subjectively involved,

but instead just lets them

know like these are the

expectations.

Like it's, this is what it is, you know,

so it's, it's helpful to enter

through things objectively

with that training.

- Okay, cool. So earlier

we talked about the,

the two teams that you're on.

One is the support response team

and the other is the crisis team.

Can you tell me how they're different

and then how they might

overlap if they do?

- Yeah, absolutely. They

overlap all the time actually.

So the support response

team is an on-call team

that handles a lot of just like kind

of on-call everyday things.

This could vary from

emotionally supporting a student

when they are going through a hard time

and might just need space to be able

to have the emotions that they have.

This can be like if students are kind

of getting into a verbal conflict in class

or in a space and kind

of getting them apart so

that they can have privacy

and also have processing time.

We're also called for behaviors such

as like if someone is having an emotion

and needs to get it out

by getting physical.

So throwing things

or maybe hitting, you know, those types

of behaviors we're called for.

And the crisis team,

there's a lot of overlap

'cause sometimes you'll

walk into an SRT call

and know immediately

that it's a crisis call

or it becomes a crisis call

when you need just more bodies

to help facilitate the situation.

So if there is a safety risk for example,

I'm definitely calling the

crisis team to help the student

that's having a hard time to

help the classroom be able

to go out of the classroom and relocate.

To help follow up with teachers

and staff to make sure that they are okay

and if they need support

wherever their class is,

we help them with that as well.

Sometimes if we need to remove

dangerous objects from a

classroom, I'm definitely

calling the crisis team

to help me move things out of a class

or out of a space. So yeah.

- Okay. So when you call the crisis team

and people kind of start arriving,

how do you know who's gonna do what?

Because it sounded like there

were lots of moving parts

to that, right?

Somebody's gonna be

with the person who's having a hard time,

maybe more than one person.

You're gonna have people

who are helping folks in the

classroom kind of move to a

different area, touching base

with the the teachers and the students

because everybody can

be affected emotionally

and sometimes phy

physically by a situation

where a person has been acting out.

- Yeah, thankfully the

team is very cohesive.

So like, and we also really know our kids

so when we walk into a room

for a specific student,

we usually know what needs to happen.

Direct communication also is such a gift.

I'm able to say I need

you to get everything out

of this room and they just start doing it

or I need X, Y, Z and they go and get it.

I'm very direct

and I expect the same

out of my team members

to tell me exactly what

needs to happen And a lot

of it is just learning, like watch

what other people do.

So if there's other crisis

team members already on scene

and they're, and I see them, you know,

taking out a table from a room, I know

that I'm gonna be taking stuff out too.

But yeah, it just kind of depends

and usually people are very, very direct

and that's a really good thing to have.

- Yeah, that's gotta be really helpful so

that you know, you know what to do.

Paying attention to what other

people are doing as well.

Kind of knowing those

basic concepts of we need

to make sure the environment is safe.

What are some things in

there that could be used

in an unsafe way

and how do we make it safe

for the person who's having a hard time?

Right. Yeah,

- Absolutely.

And I'm really grateful

'cause our team is just

like spot on.

Just wonderful people

who have been doing this

for a long time that I learn a lot from

and that I can always go to

with questions. They're great.

- That's really cool. In

your article you talked

about really meeting the

student where they are

to support their psychological

wellbeing and mental health.

What strategies do you use

to get to know this student

and identify what they may need

to support their mental health?

- So a lot

of the times students

will actually tell you

what they need. That's

- Always

- Helpful, which is really cool.

Like if they're able to communicate

to me in whatever way that they need space

or that they need privacy

or that they with like a song to be played

that makes them feel better.

Just a number of things.

Oftentimes students will

tell you what they need

if they can't or if you don't

know them very well, it's kind

of like looking in the toolbox

and just being like, do

you wanna use this tool?

You know for example like I

might offer a weighted blanket

if someone's having a really hard time

and it seems like a good time to ask,

I might ask if they want hand squeezes

or if they want the light

dimmed, if they'd like to go

to the regulation station,

if they just need privacy.

It's kind of like looking in that toolbox

that I know is there and offering tools

and seeing which ones work.

And then once we figure out

which ones work, we kind

of communicate that to

the rest of the team so

that it's kind of like if Jimmy

over here has a hard time,

again we know that this,

this and this works.

And that way everybody can also be on the

same page for Jimmy.

- Yeah, for sure. And some

of the things you mentioned

it made me think about

really you need to know, know

the kid and kid the person

and know what is it

that they individually

need and respond to.

'cause we know that some

people might need more sensory

input like the weighted blanket

or having their hands squeezed

and others might need less

sensory input like dimming the

lights or whatever their

particular need is.

You also referenced a

regulation, help me out here

- Regulation station.

- Tell me what that is please.

- It's such an awesome thing.

So Lionsgate has two regulation

stations also called the reg

station and inside the

reg station you'll find

like a red swing that

really hugs the body tight.

You'll find a platform

swing which is really good

for just like going back and forth.

There's a projector that

will play calming music

and calming videos.

There's like a Brillo light

thing, there's a light bright,

there's puzzles,

- There's a, what do you

mean by a Brillo light sheet?

- It's like it's not,

I don't think it's called

a Brillo light actually.

It's like, you know that

thing that looks like hair,

like it has a base

and then there's, it looks

like these little silver hair

sticking out of it and they

all light up different colors

and you can kind of like put

them in a tube with your hand

or you can just like feel

them really good sensory

tool. It's my favorite thing.

- We'll have to look these up.

Yeah. Yes, they sound really

- Cool.

Buy one, not sponsored

but they're the best

and it's just, it's a great

place to get regulated

and get a calm again.

- Yeah find out or figure

out what that kid needs

and they're probably gonna be somewhat

attracted to that thing.

And my guess is they've probably

been in at the regulation

station and had a chance

when they're calm to kind of

pick things out and know what's in there.

Is that, would that be accurate?

- Yeah, we definitely

try to get kids in there.

Like a lot of SRTs job

too is to do a lot of like

kind of like,

I wanna say like

preliminary, I don't know if

that's the right word,

but basically like help

kids stay regulated before

things get to like a level four

or five type of situation or

before they get dysregulated basically.

So part of that is like going on a walk

or going to the reg station

and they might just need

like a break in general.

Like they're not feeling

necessarily dysregulated

but they might just need a break

and the reg stationer is

a really good place to go

to like figure out what they

like and what will help them

and for them to figure out

what they like and what will help them.

- Alright, let's talk a little bit about,

you used a couple terms feeling

regulated or dysregulated.

Tell us a little bit more,

kind of define that for us.

- I kind of have

feelings about the terms

regulated and dysregulated.

I think it's often better to

refer to the actual emotion

that's going on, but in

academics especially,

we use the terms dysregulated

and regulated a lot.

Regulated basically means like calm

and ready to learn from what I can see.

- So Okay, that makes

- Sense. Yeah, your body is calm,

your mind is calm, you're

not feeling too fast,

you're not feeling too slow,

you're feeling just like

just right quote unquote

and dysregulated, which is where I kind

of get like eh feelings about it.

'cause like dysregulated can

mean a plethora of things.

It's kind of like an

ambiguous term in my opinion.

It can mean that you're really angry

and maybe you're throwing things.

It can mean that your

body is moving too fast

and you're kind of like

not able to sit still.

It can mean that you're

joking around too much

and you're not able to listen,

you're not able to concentrate.

It can be a number of things

but just basically like in a

state where you're not ready

to be calm and ready to learn pretty much.

- Okay, that's super helpful.

The other terms you used were

level four and level five.

I'm, I'm assuming those are

terms that you use in a school.

What do you mean by those?

- So the levels are kind of

out like quote unquote outdated

or at least our occupational

therapists have been working on

like instead of saying

you're at a four say

that you're anxious

or instead of saying you're

at a level five, you can say

that you're furious.

I use it for myself personally

because sometimes as an

autistic person when I'm feeling

dysregulated it is very

helpful for me to say

to someone immediately I'm at a level four

or five I need to bounce

when I don't have the words

or when I just don't wanna tell somebody.

Like I'm feeling furious, right?

It's like an easier way for

me to access what I need.

But I also do understand

like, you know, if our kids go

to an employer in a couple years

and say I'm a four,

their employer's not gonna

necessarily like understand,

but like a four is kind of like

where you're teetering on

being out of control in

that type of state.

And a level five is where

you feel out of control

of your body or like your emotions.

- Alright, so those, those

levels kind of, there's a kind

of a definition for that

and it helps kids identify

like where they're at

and how they can express to

someone else where they're at.

Yeah. At least in in the school

setting they're in currently.

Yeah. Yeah. Alright, well

thanks that's super helpful.

One of the other things

you kind of touched on

and I like to think about

or I thought about when

we did the interview

for your article is I think one

of the most important

intervention strategies is often

skipped and that's the debriefing

after a situation has occurred.

And it can be hard to get

back to that for a number

of reasons, especially in a school

or if you're working in a group home

or an employment setting because

things move along quickly.

Not to mention there's

often big feelings about

what happened and you really have to kind

of wait till everybody has kind

of calmed down and everybody's

ready to talk about it.

Can you tell me like how

do you all handle that and,

and why I guess more is, you

know, talk about the importance

of the debrief and

how do you think students

really benefit from that?

- Yeah, debriefs are very

beneficial for our students

because it's not only like

a a space to debrief about

what happened and how you

felt and get clarification,

but also to clarify

like what do we do next?

So at least at Lionsgate

and our crisis team will

start by asking everybody

how they're doing, going through

the facts of what happened,

what people decided to do,

how they felt, what was hard

in those situations and what do we do now.

And that's very helpful to be

able to plan for the future.

Basically like, okay, this happened,

we need a different plan

or what strategies

worked, what didn't work?

Who needs to be communicated

with that type of thing.

Debriefs are very important

for not only kind of

having closure on what happened

but also opening the door

to like a better future

for our students and for

our staff pretty much.

- Yeah, boy, I totally

agree with you on that.

Also in your article you reminded people

that they're not alone

and they should find support

from others in the organization

who can help them with the

strategies, provide training,

whatever support people

need, you encourage them

to work closely with the

person who's being supported

to learn how they really wanna

be supported when they're in

a bad space

or when they're, you know,

having a difficult time.

Tell us more about this

and why do you think it's so important?

Zoey?

- I think if you're not able to feel

safe within yourself, it's really hard

to help other people feel safe.

And that's why it's really important

to have those core people

wherever you are working in

this particular like position I

guess that you know, you can

come to to them at any time

with like, hey, I am

feeling this about this

and I need to talk about it.

To be able to have closure on

it, that's very important so

that you can feel safe

and that that feeling doesn't compound

and start kind of branching into new calls

and new crises that you're gonna take.

So that support is very important

and when we have that support

for each other, it's easier

to mirror it for our students as well

and it's easier for us to

collaborate on what's best

for our students.

- Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah.

Do you have any final

words of encouragement

or wisdom to share with the listeners?

- I think that everybody

should know that the kids

who are the toughest,

who give you quote

unquote the hardest time

or are like the quote unquote

quote unquote problem.

Kids are really like the

best kids in the world.

They are the best, they're

the most charismatic,

the most multidimensional souls.

And they've been through a

lot of things that also like

give them a totally different

perspective to everything.

And I wish that more people could see that

and approach them the way that I see them

and the way that my team them

'cause that's ultimately

what they deserve.

And I've seen these kids who

come into Lionsgate with,

you know, this past of

people not believing in them

and feeling alienated

and they just flourish when

we allow them to flourish,

when we allow them to be who they are

and see them for who they are.

And I had encourage everyone, like try

to see your students or your

clients not as your client

or your student, but for

who they are individually

and outside of this structure.

Who are they and who are they going to be?

Because a lot of what

we do right now is going

to create the person that's

going to just completely evolve

and transform

and show us like the magic

that's been there all along, you know?

And that's like my favorite

part of this job is being able

to do that and knowing that

little Zoe deserve that too.

And little Zoe gets that now, you know?

But yeah, I guess that's my parting words.

- Oh, thank you so much Zoe.

This has just been a

pleasure visiting with you

and learning more from you

and the joy that you have for the work

that you do is just contagious.

So thank you. Thank you so much.

Not only for being a two-time author,

but now also being a podcaster with us.

We really appreciate it.

- Yeah, it was wonderful.

Thanks for having me.

- Absolutely. And thank

you to the listeners

for tuning in today.

We appreciate you

and we can, you can find

other episodes of this podcast

as well as another podcast

called Health Matters

for direct support on

your favorite podcast

streaming services.

Thanks again, Zoey, and have a great day.