Navigating the Challenges of Coaching Highly Successful Individuals
In this episode, John and Angie, delve into the complexities and nuances of coaching individuals who may be perceived as more successful than the coach.
They discuss their personal experiences, the evolution of their feelings of intimidation over time, and the importance of defining success.
They explore the psychological aspects of coaching high achievers, including the potential for intimidation, and how to overcome it by focusing on the coaching skills and value you bring to the table, rather than on comparative success levels.
Our hosts emphasize the universal challenges and objectives humans share, regardless of their level of success, and encourage coaches to maintain confidence in their ability to assist their client's achievements, growth and improvement.
The conversation also touches on treating all clients with the same level of respect and commitment, while remaining open to continuous learning and improvement as a coach.
00:00 Opening Banter and Introduction
01:03 The Challenge of Coaching More Successful People
02:36 Personal Experiences and Insights
05:23 Overcoming Intimidation and Embracing Growth
06:15 The Essence of Effective Coaching
07:34 Real-Life Coaching Success Story
15:52 Reflections and Future Conversations
16:08 Closing Remarks and Invitation for Feedback
John,
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:John: Angie,
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:Angie: how do you feel about coaching
people who are more successful than you?
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:John: Who's more successful than me.
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:Angie: Do you need a list?
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:John: Oh, that's just hurtful.
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:Angie: Daww, do you think you can
recover whilst we run the intro?
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:John: Yeah, I'll be okay.
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:Angie: All right, good.
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:Let's start the show.
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:All right.
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:So seriously, I think that at some point,
every coach that is out there, even
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:if it's somebody that's just starting
out, I think every single person, We'll
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:come across somebody that we perceive
to be more successful than us in life.
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:And Obviously, we're talking about it,
so I had an experience, or several,
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:where that has come up for me.
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:Has it come up for you?
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:Have you ever felt like that?
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:John: A bunch of times.
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:Yeah, absolutely.
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:Probably not as strangely, not so much
in my earlier coaching days, but they
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:actually come up more, I would say
more, more in the last five years.
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:Angie: That is so interesting
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:John: that seem unusual or
maybe that's just where I've
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:had been able to notice it more.
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:Angie: Well, let me ask you, though.
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:Is it because you're exposed?
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:This is an interesting
thought that just came to me.
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:Do you think it's because you're
now exposed to higher level people?
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:More of them?
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:John: yeah, I think that's a lot of it.
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:A lot of the people I was
coaching in my earlier days of
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:coaching or just flat broke.
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:And so that, but that I would say there
were a handful who were successful in many
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:ways in their businesses and other things.
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:And I.
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:Didn't really feel threatened
by it because they weren't in
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:the same areas that I was in.
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:So I guess I did not really relate to it.
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:It's yeah, maybe they were more successful
in their business results, but it was
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:probably only the last five years or so
that I really started coaching people
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:who were in similar areas to me, who were
sometimes much further ahead than I was.
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:Angie: that's so interesting because
I think it comes back to our I'm going
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:deep, early, I'm hitting it, but I
feel like there's this perception of
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:success and I think that everybody has
a belief system or some, something like
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:that that defines success for them.
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:So it could be in terms of
income, somebody who makes.
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:A certain amount of money or more, but
it also could be the actual career.
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:So my first experience with that was with
a client that actually worked for NASA.
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:Yeah.
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:and they weren't just an
administrator or something.
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:They were an engineer.
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:I remember thinking before the
call wow, this person is really,
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:clearly super intelligent.
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:And, no offense, because I think I'm
pretty smart, but I'm not NASA smart.
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:Just being honest, right?
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:And that intimidated me.
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:John: because you don't know how things
are going to go, or you don't know if
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:someone is going to turn around and say I
don't think you understand what you think
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:you understand or something like that.
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:It's like
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:Angie: Gone.
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:John: Those things I guess those
things are always possible.
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:I have had situations with coaches where
they've said something that I was like,
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:yeah, that's not true or that's not right.
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:So that has come up weirdly
but it's never come up for me
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:on a coaching call as a coach.
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:This is bowing to my own
greatness here, but it just
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:hasn't, it just hasn't happened.
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:But I have had a lot of fear about
coaching people particularly people
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:who may be either quite well known.
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:Or at least well known in industry
or people who I know just 'cause I
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:know their business and know them are
how I would say I would define them
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:as being more successful than me.
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:Angie: Yeah.
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:So I think that's the first
space is like, what do you even
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:consider to be success, right?
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:And then here's the question
though, why does it matter, right?
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:If they're, if, and this is
what it boiled down to for me.
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:So if they are more successful, does
that mean I am not able to coach
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:them?
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:John: Here.
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:Angie: Cause we're all human first.
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:And really that was probably the lesson
for me was that like wait a minute.
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:I don't really care other than,
I Jesus himself coming down and
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:saying, Hey, I need some coaching.
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:I might be a little
intimidated, but I'm joking.
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:I'm making a little joke there.
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:Don't get offended and don't come at me.
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:I'm just saying
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:You know?
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:John: I, I know, I know
exactly what you mean.
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:And
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:I look at it from that sports perspective,
and I know you like a good sports
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:analogy, this is just more of a sort
of cross perspective of sports coaches.
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:Often the people they're
coaching may well go on to be
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:much more successful than them.
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:Maybe not, but often they will.
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:That's surely what the coaches want.
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:is for their coachees to be
more successful than them.
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:And if someone, is at the top of
the game in tennis, as an example,
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:and they're still going to have
a coach, they still need somebody
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:who can watch them in their game.
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:But is that person
necessarily better than them?
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:Or is that person just a good coach,
good at actually observing things,
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:helping them work on things noticing
their form, and giving them the
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:encouragement and feedback, and having
that good relationship with them?
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:It's not about being better.
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:Then the person you're coaching
that's not even really relevant.
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:It's can you coach them?
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:Can you help with whatever they're
coming to you to help with and that's
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:the real thing is that you don't need
to be So far ahead of your of the
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:clients that you're working with If
you are mentoring people and telling
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:them what to do, then yeah, sure,
maybe there's some credibility things
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:that you might need to get in check.
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:Now, I can remember a friend of mine
wanting to do relationship coaching,
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:and she didn't feel that she could do
that in integrity because she hadn't had
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:much success in her own relationships.
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:I didn't personally think that was
a bar to being a relationship coach.
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:Because she may, she
certainly has to do that.
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:experience and she knows plenty
about what doesn't work, but
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:it's not really relevant.
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:It's can you understand what's
going on in people's relationships?
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:What's going on for them emotionally?
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:And can you help coach them on that?
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:That's more the issue there.
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:So yeah, when we actually get into and
get out of our own sort of ego feeling
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:threatened or those kinds of things,
we probably recognize we can still
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:work with clients who might seem On
paper at least to be way ahead of us.
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:Or they might have more notoriety,
they might be, might have taken way
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:more action than us in a certain area.
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:And it's you know what would you do if
Mel Robbins came to you for coaching
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:Angie: Oh, I'd be like, what's up, girl?
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:Well, listen, but it's funny that
you say that because I was saving it.
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:I, cause I had an, I
had a situation where.
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:I was in a training room, I'm gonna
just say ballroom size, with a very well
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:known, high level person, and it was
for one of my certifications, and so
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:essentially we had to do some breakouts.
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:And do some coaching on the framework
and interestingly, somehow I got paired
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:up with this person's right hand person
and they told you like, Oh, by the way,
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:you're going to be with this person, this
person, go take a 10 minute potty break
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:and come back and be ready to coach.
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:And I remember going you would have
thought that if I didn't do this
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:well, like they were going to come
and take my life, my family, my
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:house, my kids, like I was so nervous.
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:I went to the restroom and I remember
being like sweating my palms.
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:My heart was racing
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:And
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:John: Gail?
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:Was it Gail?
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:Were you getting close to Oprah?
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:Angie: it was not, but you know
what, it might as well have been.
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:It was really that big a name.
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:But then I turned it around and it
was like you need to just do it.
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:So you can't just go do it.
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:And when I sat down with the
person, I was like, hi, you know,
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:all like, duh, like good so wide.
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:And I said, okay, get your nerves out.
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:And I looked this person
right in the face and
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:said.
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:This has to be the most
intimidating moment of my life,
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:but I'm gonna give it a shot.
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:And they were like, okay.
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:And listen, but let me
tell you what happened.
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:I did it.
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:I rocked it.
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:Would I say it was perfect?
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:I feel like because the bar felt
so high that it actually elevated
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:and it extracted from me what
I really was capable of doing.
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:And later in this 500 person ballroom,
this person got up and said, and we
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:didn't know this was gonna happen.
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:I did it.
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:There was like a, an analysis and they
had to rate us in front of everybody
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:and they rated me a 9 out of 10.
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:And I was like, hey, like there I was all
of a sudden If you all could see me right
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:now, I'm like, giving the big smile, like
I'm doing my red carpet walk right now.
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:That's how it felt.
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:And that was a moment for me, right?
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:That was a moment where once everything
wore off and I had a minute to
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:process what had just happened, I
was like, of course I can do this.
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:I'm a coach.
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:This person is still just a person, right?
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:They put the pant legs on
like all the cliches, right?
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:And that was a great, great experience.
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:stressful, but great teaching moment
for me that, you have to expect as
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:a coach that you are always growing.
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:You always have someplace to go next we're
not going to get it perfect every time.
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:So we have to let go of that expectation,
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:John: I don't think, I don't think
it's a bad thing if even thinking
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:about this has our listener questioning
their own coaching skills and ability
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:because we think we should all do that.
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:We should all be thinking about are you?
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:continually growing?
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:Are you staying ahead?
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:Are you learning enough to be able to
bring new insights and aspects into your
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:coaching and your school of thought that
are going to be helpful, not just to
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:you, but to the people you work with?
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:Or are you just following a coaching
formula that you would learn to coaching
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:school or some no home study course
that you're working with people on?
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:Because that may not be enough in the
long run is, if, That's where you're at.
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:You're going to struggle
if things go off script.
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:But if you keep your learning growing
you're always going to be in a position
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:where you'll have something to add
some, something that's value, but
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:there's always in coaching, particularly
there's always this aspect, or
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:hopefully there's this aspect of you
are an external what would you say?
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:An external person to what's going on.
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:So people often.
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:cannot really see the truth of
what's going on in their own
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:lives because they're in it.
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:It's hard to see it all when you're in it.
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:So being a coach is about being that
external viewer and aiming to look
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:without judgment, without limitation
on things like What are they not
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:seeing, or how can you reflect back
to them, what they're actually saying
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:and not really seeing for themselves
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:in a way that's going to help them
to grow and develop from that.
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:Not to have all the answers for them,
not to be ahead of them and say, all
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:right, I need to pull you up here.
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:It's I don't need to
pull you up for anything.
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:I just need to have enough detachment
from what's going on for you to be able
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:to help you see the game more clearly.
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:So you can plan your steps forward and
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:get over obstacles that are in
your way, but I don't need to be
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:I don't need to be ahead of you in
all of that to help you with that.
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:Angie: well, listen, if we really took
on that mindset of, I need to be ahead.
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:First of all, how do we even know that?
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:Number one.
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:Realistically cause I would say to you
this, that some of the highest level
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:of people, and I mean highest level
in terms of like careers and that
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:type of space, are some of the most
challenged people that I have, they're
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:across the board, I'm not, I'm thinking
about it as I'm saying it out loud,
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:they have, shockingly, guess what?
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:They bleed red.
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:They have the same challenges and more
which was, another enlightening moment.
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:I think as I go through,
I'm no longer surprised.
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:I think early on I was surprised
Oh, like I learned that.
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:And here's the other side of
it, if they're coming to you
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:for coaching, there's humility,
I think, in wanting to be better.
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:And your job is to help
them do that, right?
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:It's what, exactly what you
were saying, but their hand is
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:literally on the steering wheel.
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:You're sitting there as you're shotgun,
you're sitting next to them and you
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:do see things maybe more clearly
because you're allowed, you're able to.
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:Look around and take
your eyes off the road.
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:They're so focused on keeping it that way.
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:So I think knowing that first of
all, somebody is coming to you for
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:help or expansion or elevate, like
whatever they want and need, that
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:should in itself tell you something.
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:So it's really about just
get out of your head.
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:John: yeah,
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:We have to be able to
give honest feedback.
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:We talked about this in our, can you
be friends with your clients episode?
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:It was like.
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:We have to be able to tell them
what they really need to hear.
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:What's going to help them grow, not to
try and tell them what they want to hear.
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:And if you get a bit starstruck by
someone you're working with, or you're
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:thinking, Oh, there's so much, there's
so much better than I am, or something
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:ahead you're going to be very wary about
what feedback they might offer you.
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:If you tell them something a bit
right now, maybe we will come to an
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:episode at some point on how to give
more direct feedback and how to give
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:that honest feedback to your coaching
clients in a way that Is still gonna
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:help a relationship to grow, but also
to give them what they really need.
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:I think it's absolutely critical
that you can do that and you have
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:to get your ego out the way, and
have their best interest at heart.
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:Angie: absolutely.
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:And if, and here's the thing, I think
the idea is to treat them like I, I
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:treat all of my clients exactly the same.
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:That's my rule of thumb.
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:I come into it.
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:I lead the sessions the same
way, in terms of what I do.
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:I dig the same way.
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:So really, what is the difference, right?
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:Really, what is the difference?
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:It really shouldn't matter.
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:But you and I both know that, if coaches
are newer, they're probably going to
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:have maybe a couple of moments where
they might be like, Oh my goodness,
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:like this is a little intimidating.
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:And I don't know, if Tony came
knocking on my door and said, Hey
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:Angie, I want you to coach me.
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:Right?
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:I would buy, I would probably be a
little like starstruck for a minute
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:and be like, ooh, but again, I would
get past that and say, okay just as a
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:little side note to what we were talking
about, when that person gave me that 9
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:out of 10, they were asked by the owner
of the company, the facilitator, So why?
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:What why such a high number?
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:It was like the highest number of the day.
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:I'll take that.
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:Thank you very much.
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:And he, the answer was because
she was able to use this
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:framework, but wasn't so rigid.
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:She actually coached it was just a guide.
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:She just went into coaching.
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:She wasn't asking me, what about this?
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:And questions that didn't lead anywhere.
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:So again, I think that's just part
of dialing back into your craft as a
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:coach and working the muscle, right?
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:That was like a deadweight
500 pound for me.
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:That
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:John: That's great.
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:Now, I want to get into this and
perhaps we can make this our next
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:conversation about more specifically,
I know we want to talk about the
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:direct conversations and maybe even
provocative coaching and things like that.
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:How we just need to sometimes lean into.
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:trusting ourselves and going for it
because that's where it's going to happen
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:Rather than second guessing ourselves.
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:We're going to have to wrap
things up there, Angie, but I've
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:really enjoyed this conversation.
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:Hey, look, you can contact us
with your questions or with any
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:topics you'd like us to consider
or any feedback you have for us.
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:you can go to speakpipe.
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:com forward slash the coaching clinic
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:podcast.
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:The link is going to
be in the notes for us.
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:Leave us a voicemail, ask questions,
tell us what you'd like us to cover
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:on the show and give us any feedback
on what we've been covering so far.
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:We'd love to hear from you,
but we'll be back very soon.
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:And so thanks to you for listening
in share us with your coaching
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:friends and we'll see you very soon.
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:Angie: Take care.