In this episode of 'Reimagining Work From Within,' Jeff Melnyk sits down with Amy VanHaren, the founder and force behind Pumpspotting, a digital platform dedicated to supporting parents in their child-feeding journey.

Listen in as Amy opens up about the challenges she faced as a working parent, which fueled her determination to launch a startup that combines technology with the power of community to help guide and unite parents across the globe.

This episode is a deep dive into the importance of intuition in business, the significance of incorporating self-care and mental health into leadership, and how redefining success can transform the future of work.

Tune in to gain invaluable insights, feel empowered as a professional, and learn how Amy's innovative approach is reshaping workplace culture to be more flexible, family-friendly, and intuitively guided.

Learn more about Within people at withinpeople.com

Learn more about Amy and Pumpspotting at pumpspotting.com

hey, everyone.

2

Welcome back to reimagining

work from within.

3

I'm Jeff Melnick based in San Francisco.

4

I'm really excited to have my guest today.

5

I've known Amy Van Haren for many years.

6

She is truly an entrepreneur that

I look upon as someone who's been

7

successful, So guided through her

heart and purpose and intuition and

8

really grown something remarkable.

9

She's going to tell us all about it,

about what she's been growing and

10

how it's felt to be an entrepreneur.

11

The reason why I wanted to get her

on the show today was I think she's

12

truly authentic and vulnerable when

it comes to talking about The real

13

challenges of being a founder and being

a female founder and what it means

14

to grow a purpose driven business.

15

We sat down recently to have a little

chat about what some of the common

16

pitfalls were to avoid burnout and

what it means to be successful today.

17

I hope you enjoyed this episode.

18

Jeff Melnyk: Did you go to any concerts?

19

Amy VanHaren: I did.

20

We kind of did the full

spectrum of Nashville music.

21

We went to the Ryman auditorium and

we saw Gregory Allen Isikoff and

22

he was magical and Lucius opened.

23

That was really fun.

24

Interesting.

25

Really great.

26

Yeah.

27

Yep.

28

And then we did Broadway and yes.

29

It was sunny, sunny

30

Jeff Melnyk: and joyful.

31

Okay, well, I am so excited

to have you on the podcast.

32

I've been wanting this forever.

33

Well, forever since we've had the podcast.

34

And it's just really an honor to get

some time with you because I know

35

you're really busy, which is part of

what we're going to talk about today.

36

But your website says you're an

entrepreneur, a mainer, a mama,

37

and a lifelong optimist on a

mission to transform workplaces

38

for mothers and inspire founders

to bring their big ideas to life.

39

First of all, I actually thought you

were from Vermont, so that's bad.

40

And now that I know you're

not, that makes more sense.

41

But you and I, full disclosure for

everyone, you and I met closer to Vermont

42

because we, I think I've known you

professionally longer than most humans.

43

Where did, where did we meet?

44

Amy VanHaren: Where did we meet?

45

I feel, I feel like it

was in San Francisco.

46

I think we

47

Jeff Melnyk: met at

Stonyfield Headquarters.

48

We

49

Amy VanHaren: did, because

that was before Amy.

50

Jeff Melnyk: In the before time.

51

That's right.

52

In the before the

53

Amy VanHaren: before time.

54

Manchester, New Hampshire.

55

That's,

56

Jeff Melnyk: gosh, that's

57

Amy VanHaren: right.

58

We've been, we've been together, Moving

around sticky notes for a long time.

59

Jeff Melnyk: We have gone through a lot

of post it notes, and I think if we would

60

have invested in 3M back then, I think

we could have funded many entrepreneurs.

61

But tell me a little bit about Your

mission, because you're at PumpSpotting

62

now and it's a, and it's a business that

you founded and it's fantastic, but tell

63

me, let's start there and then let's

work a little bit backwards from there.

64

Like, what is PumpSpotting

and why is PumpSpotting?

65

Amy VanHaren: Yeah, well, you know, at

our core, we're a digital women's health

66

care company and we are really fired

up to help parents keep a tiny human.

67

Alive and fed and healthy because

that is incredibly hard to do no

68

matter what feeding path you take.

69

And so we have created a digital

platform that really helps parents

70

navigate the day to day of feeding.

71

It's kind of like a feeding lifeline.

72

access to community and feeding experts

and all the encouragement and information

73

and everything that you need while you are

navigating this really vulnerable journey.

74

And then on top of that, we work with

organizations so that they can offer

75

baby feeding support and remain compliant

with the regulations and really create

76

an inclusive culture for parents in this.

77

vulnerable, vital, challenging phase

78

Jeff Melnyk: of early parenthood.

79

An exciting phase.

80

And now as a gay man who's not a

parent, I really, and when you first

81

started telling me about your idea, I

was like, okay, I'm never going to have

82

a real experience of what it's like.

83

To be a mom in the workplace, but I

know what it's like for working parents

84

in the workplace and how hard it is.

85

And I was so inspired by all

the things around your vision.

86

Like, it's not just about breastfeeding.

87

It's about a total way for parents to

actually understand the world of work in

88

the world of work to understand parents.

89

And I hope we can riff a

little bit around that.

90

But that's not Why I invited you on

the podcast, Amy, because I think your

91

story as an entrepreneur has been really

inspiring and, and how did you get

92

from Stony Field, New Hampshire from

yogurt, from organic yogurt to where you

93

are today, tell me a little bit about

your journey of becoming a founder.

94

Amy VanHaren: Yeah.

95

Well, it's funny when you say it

that way, I guess that I have been

96

helping feed people for a very long

time just in different formats.

97

I, I think like so many entrepreneurs

and certainly so many women I know, I

98

came to this work not based on a passion

for maternal health, but just raw need.

99

You know, for me, I was in a phase of life

trying to feed my own family and career.

100

And finding it incredibly

challenging, I was just overwhelmed.

101

I was, I went through a, you know,

a phase of life for almost 24 months

102

where I was either nursing or pumping

or thinking about nursing and pumping

103

all the time, like planning my entire

life around it and traveling from

104

Maine to San Francisco every handful

of weeks and shipping hundreds of

105

ounces of breast milk and pumping

on airplanes between businessmen mid

106

flight who, you know, probably thought,

What the heck is this woman doing?

107

And just found myself

really, really struggling.

108

And at that time, that was almost

eight years ago, and at that time

109

there were not a lot of places

you could turn to really connect.

110

The other parents who are going

through this to, you know, get us

111

off pumping on the bathroom floor to

really think about what it meant to be

112

navigating this emotional time period

as much as it was a logistical and

113

clinical and, and all those things.

114

And I just, you know, I had

this moment of real dark despair

115

on a dirty bathroom floor and.

116

My breast pump was sounding a lot

like Darth Vader and just like felt

117

ready to quit everything in it.

118

And my sister texted me at that moment

and just sort of knew that I needed

119

to hear that she saw me and that I

was, I was amazing and I was capable

120

and I was able to continue doing this.

121

And that was really the onus for

this idea of uniting parents on

122

this journey that I think had

been, had been really overlooked.

123

For a long time,

124

Jeff Melnyk: I mean, that's amazing.

125

I mean, other people might have just been

on the bathroom floor reaching out to

126

their sister and being like, this sucks.

127

I hate all of this.

128

Literally, right?

129

But you said this sucks.

130

I hate all of this.

131

Oh, my goodness.

132

I'm going to go start a new idea.

133

I'm going to start a business.

134

I'm going to scale it up.

135

I'm going to like, get funding.

136

I'm going to change not only the way women

experience this, but the way employers and

137

the community starts to experience this.

138

You went whole hog on it.

139

So like, what, what happened there?

140

How did you suddenly make the shift

into the Yep, I'm packing it in

141

with the other stuff I'm doing.

142

And this is now what

I'm about to embark on.

143

Amy VanHaren: Yeah, well,

well, let's be honest.

144

I don't think I knew I was gonna

go whole hog, like at that moment

145

in time, Um, but for me, I just had

kind of a light bulb moment where I

146

really, you know, you're on your phone

all the time when you're doing this.

147

When you're navigating, you feel so alone.

148

And because my background was really in

connecting people through technology,

149

through marketing, through digital.

150

Formats and building community.

151

Once I thought about the power of

building a space to do that, I couldn't

152

stop thinking about it, then like all

things that come to life, I really

153

kind of believe you start putting that.

154

thought and that vision out there and

the world sort of starts to, conspire

155

in your favor and put someone in front

of me , Lindsay Whitmer Collins, who

156

is still building PumpSpotting today

is just a brilliant product mind.

157

I happened to get introduced

and, , you met one another.

158

And so I, I think my experience

has been one of just.

159

Sticking to the, the deep passion and

enthusiasm for what I see as possible.

160

And then really trying to just

open myself up to what appears and

161

take, , one foot in front of the

other to just keep building toward it.

162

And

163

Jeff Melnyk: that's really what we

wanted to talk a little bit about

164

today, right, is this notion of what

is it like to keep that going and

165

to feel that sense of success and

whether or not you feel successful,

166

where did those feelings come from?

167

And I said to you the other day, I

really see you as a truly successful

168

entrepreneur who's stuck to your values,

who, used your purpose as your North

169

Star guided through all of the funding

woes and ups and downs and the pandemic

170

coming in and possibly hitting you

blindside, but also opening up other

171

opportunities and you're like, Okay,

well, I'm glad you see me as a success.

172

But, but you are, I mean, you've,

you've done amazing things with pump

173

spotting, but how do you define success?

174

Depends on the day?

175

Amy VanHaren: What success feels

176

Jeff Melnyk: like?

177

But today, on this Tuesday!

178

At

179

Amy VanHaren: this moment,

what does success mean?

180

Maybe others who've been on this

journey can really relate to that, is

181

that I think sometimes, sometimes it's

really easy to define success for me.

182

Other times it feels elusive or it

feels harder and harder to get to.

183

And sometimes I feel like it's, you

know, an ongoing journey that we're

184

successful every day at many things.

185

And other days it feels like a

terrifying distance between where

186

I am and what success really

feels like it should look like.

187

And so I think I'm constantly redefining.

188

Success, and I think it's important

for my mental health and for moving

189

forward that that's a work in process.

190

And I think for me, it's really important

to define success, personally and

191

professionally, they feel intertwined.

192

Many times like who I am as a person is

tied to how successful, how many dollars

193

we get in the door, how big the revenue

is, how far we go, all of those things.

194

It's really easy to feel like the success.

195

Of myself and the success of the

business are one in the same.

196

And so I'm constantly working to remind

myself that sometimes success is how

197

much I've learned or the skills that

I've been able to do as a person.

198

And, you know, the, the, the jobs,

the employment I've been able to

199

offer or the you know, for me, when

I really think about it, I think

200

success is the, the ripple effect that

I've been able to hopefully cause.

201

In this world for the greater good and

I, I don't even think I could measure

202

that, but I hold to that, that what we

planted and what we've started with pump

203

spotting and me showing up every day is

having an impact that resonates . Beyond

204

and beyond and beyond and again and again,

205

Jeff Melnyk: but I, and I think so

many tech founders in particular see

206

that success as the funding rounds

that they get or the number of users

207

or the scale they've been able to

achieve or the exit that they've

208

been able to, to, to move towards.

209

That's never really been your story.

210

I mean, I can see that

you're very concerned about.

211

The size of the community, the impact

that you're making, but how have you

212

avoided some of those traditional external

success factors that are so driven

213

by either the funding or the market?

214

Amy VanHaren: I think it's

hard to completely avoid them.

215

I think that, , we have investors,

we have stakeholders, we have , I

216

feel acutely the pressure.

217

Of where we need to get in terms of our

financial milestones and where everybody

218

is hoping we land at the end of the day.

219

And so I don't want to say that I've

avoided them because I think they live,

220

they sit, , in my anxiety level around day

to day differing and all of those things.

221

But I think I don't know if it goes back

to being an intern that eternal optimist

222

piece that you mentioned or just that.

223

That end game is less interesting to me.

224

Okay.

225

And I really think if I stay true to

who Amy is, who I am as a leader and

226

my way in the world and what I really

think, my voice and what I have to

227

offer, then the rest of that will follow.

228

In the important ways, and I've just

always believed that there is a way to

229

succeed for the good of all, not just the

stakeholders and the moneymakers, but also

230

the mamas and the, the where we're going

and and at the end of the day, if I don't.

231

Succeed in terms of what the investors

are looking for, or the numbers we

232

need to hit, or what the external

world would consider a success

233

in terms of a startup company, I

will be able to live with myself.

234

and be very proud that what I

did succeed in doing is what I

235

started out to do, which was have

an impact on women and mothers.

236

And I just have to have to just keep that

front and center when it gets really hard.

237

Jeff Melnyk: Yeah.

238

How do you come back to that?

239

Because I imagine you must get

pulled by the different stakeholder

240

interests, let's just say, or

the pressure that's very real.

241

Like, how do you come back

to that, that guiding sense

242

of what success really means?

243

Amy VanHaren: Mostly, I just have

to spend time with those people that

244

I'm really making an impact with.

245

I think, , I have this platform

, where you can pop on and see the

246

conversations in the community, or

I can offer support to someone else.

247

And , in that moment.

248

Get a little bit of positive feedback

about the impact we're having.

249

And so it's so easy to get

pulled into all those directions.

250

And I can be in a fear, shame,

worry, spiral frequently in my

251

head about, am I doing enough or

did I make the right decisions?

252

Are we going to get where we need to go?

253

And, , is this right?

254

And so for me, I think it's a

combination of some real serious.

255

And just returning, spending time on the

ground with the mothers, with, the team,

256

with those that I serve, so I remember

what that, that successful end game was

257

Really should be at the end of the day.

258

I

259

Jeff Melnyk: think that's one of the

things that's remarkable about pump

260

spotting is it has its tech Foundations,

but it really is about a real experience

261

that's going on for someone I mean you

can say that about a lot of tech products

262

like in I have to actually get in the

uber car But pump spotting really is about

263

the community and the people it's It's

great that you can go back to them, right?

264

Like that's really about

being purpose driven is for

265

who that we're here to serve.

266

And it feels like you've been

able to make that connection.

267

I mean, other founders kind of

fall into that anxiety trap.

268

I noticed quite Regularly being

able to go back to like, must

269

achieve, must have success, must

get outcomes, must please others.

270

What, why do you think that happens?

271

What, what causes us to fall into

those external, externalities that

272

become the, the success metrics?

273

Amy VanHaren: Well, I think

partly, , we're operating in worlds

274

where we have things like runway.

275

, where there is a real actual reality

about achieving your mission that has

276

to be balanced with the revenue you're,

you're bringing in or the funding or,

277

or what have you, I think for, for

many of us, , there are real pressures.

278

That drive you to look at the

metrics and the outcomes in

279

terms of what you're delivering.

280

I think that there is an expectation

extra, , from that, if you are a founder,

281

, that the way to succeed is to be seen.

282

Achieving all these milestones publicly,

it's not just like that you're doing it.

283

It's that you're getting

the next big deal.

284

You're landing the next

big, you know, relationship.

285

You're out there pitching.

286

You're doing all these things

that sort of externally make

287

you, see that you're doing that.

288

And if, when you see that all around

you in other founders It's getting

289

fundraising, winning the deals,

making new contracts and partnerships.

290

It's really hard not to compare

yourself or not to feel as

291

though, am I doing enough?

292

Am I getting, moving this

company as far as we need to go?

293

And so I, I just, I think it's the way

that things have been built in some

294

ways, especially when you take on funding

and money, you kind of, the clock is

295

racing for you to move things forward.

296

And I think.

297

We just live in a world of social

media and storytelling and all

298

those things where you see , success

in many ways, all around you.

299

And then I feel the pressure

then to make sure we're delivering

300

an equal measure sometimes.

301

Jeff Melnyk: Have you found

yourself comparing yourself to other

302

founders or people in that way?

303

Amy VanHaren: Yeah, I frequently

will look at some amazing female

304

founders, , even once we're in our

space doing exceptional things around

305

femtech and moving things forward.

306

And I occasionally will go,

gosh, they've done it all right.

307

You know, they made all these

decisions or their path, or it seems

308

like they chose this and that worked

and we're struggling with this.

309

And so I think it's really

easy, , to, to compare all those

310

things and to think about the skill

sets of what I bring to the table.

311

You know, I've been thinking a lot

recently about what we're building with

312

business and how I am as a founder and.

313

I think it relates to

both hard and soft skills.

314

Okay.

315

Okay.

316

And so with

317

Jeff Melnyk: you know, you

want to dig into both of those?

318

Amy VanHaren: Yeah, sure.

319

You want me to elaborate?

320

Yeah.

321

Yeah.

322

Yeah.

323

Well, when we were talking to

actually, we were talking to a

324

designer about what we needed.

325

For the onboarding

process in pump spotting.

326

And this designer kept asking, what are

the features, you know, like, what are

327

the features everyone uses the most?

328

So that's external data.

329

Super important.

330

We all want to be data driven.

331

We know these things.

332

We want to look at that.

333

We want to talk about that.

334

And at the end of the day, why I

think people really find success with

335

pump spotting are the, is the soft

experience, not the hard experience.

336

It's the feeling you get from the

visuals, from the language, from

337

the way the community talks to

one another, from how we show up.

338

And that, those are two kind

of very different things.

339

And I think I lean towards a soft

skill founder and sometimes the

340

metrics and the business results

and those things are a hard skill.

341

And so for me, instead of trying to

be successful all the time at both.

342

I'm fine tuning my soft, leaning

into my soft skills side of

343

things and looking for people who

compliment me on the hard skills

344

side to really drive things forward.

345

Jeff Melnyk: And of course the

soft skills stuff is harder to

346

measure and grow and therefore,

yet it's called the soft skills.

347

I think that when we delineate those, it

often, I often want to flip them around.

348

Yeah.

349

It's actually quite easy to measure

some of the, the other data metrics,

350

but the, the softer stuff is harder.

351

And that is kind of what makes you

the human leader that you are, right?

352

To cultivate those attributes that

not only your community wants, but

353

your team is going to want from you.

354

That soft stuff that you're talking

about, that can get quite emosh.

355

And running a business is emosh.

356

So I know that sometimes

357

Dealing with the emotional stuff is

part of the soft skill, which is the

358

hard stuff, but it has, it does tend

to lead people down a path of, like you

359

were saying before, comparing yourself

to others stuff going on at home,

360

working through the pandemic, living

through all that and I'm curious about

361

what's been your way , of managing

that in your life , and avoiding it.

362

What so many founders have led to,

which is real, real patterns of burnout

363

and problems throughout their career.

364

Well,

365

Amy VanHaren: hard lessons.

366

I think I've had to, you know, be

in the burnout cycle, sometimes

367

not always realizing it.

368

In fact, I I think one of my hardest

moments was I hadn't realized

369

how burned out I had gotten.

370

Fundraising is just, for anyone,

it's so time consuming and it's

371

so brutal and you're constantly

trying to plead your case and get

372

everyone excited and answering all

the questions and all those things.

373

And I in the midst of it all, I had a

moment where we had a board meeting and

374

I, and I was just talking about what

I was going through and where I was.

375

And I, and it just sort of struck

me how much I was feeling, how hard

376

everything was and, and what have you.

377

, and I just totally broke down.

378

And I remember in that moment

being, , I'm on a Zoom call.

379

Here I am supposed to be

the CEO of this company.

380

And in your mind, again, you're together.

381

You've got the patent, you're charting

the vision, the course, all of that stuff.

382

It doesn't, I didn't feel

successful at all in this moment

383

with everybody looking at me and I'm,

you know, emotionally breaking down.

384

And I had to just, I

said, I'll be right back.

385

And I just stepped away and I came back,

you know, collected myself and came

386

back and sort of got us on course and,

and two really amazing things happen.

387

I think one, the board said, We can't ever

let you get to this point again, where we

388

aren't seeing how, how much you're on the

edge of burnout and what it looks like.

389

And so I opened up an opportunity for

support from those that are building the

390

business to sort of be with, and they

really stepped up to say, you know, this,

391

we need to be here and what have you.

392

And then I also learned.

393

That, you know, you just, you, you

survive those really hard moments when

394

I didn't show up like I wanted to,

or what didn't feel great about, you

395

know, what it is or what have you.

396

And so that was a big moment for me.

397

And then coming out of

that, I had, I got a coach.

398

I started meditating.

399

I started, I had to like actively

start to build in mental health

400

self care to my daily routines to

really help me not get there again.

401

Jeff Melnyk: Let's come back to those

in a second because I think those are

402

really important and I think we all look

for those but But in that space between,

403

, I'm about to crash, I'm in front of the

board, weight of the world is upon me,

404

and I'm now a namaste forest breathing.

405

Was there, was there a bit of an

evaluation of, , the cost is too high.

406

This is too much.

407

I can't continue doing this.

408

, and did you ever get to the

point where you're like, I don't

409

want to do this at all anymore.

410

Like, that's the, the real

cost of burnout is, I'm done.

411

But were you close to that point?

412

Amy VanHaren: I've been there.

413

, I've had those moments where it's

really felt to that level of extreme,

414

like, is there another ounce of

give in me to be able to show up and

415

do this and, and what is the cost?

416

And, and for me, it's not just for me.

417

I have a family.

418

And so the moment of extreme burnout for

me has come when I feel a little lost.

419

I've had moments where I feel a

little lost with the North Star.

420

And then you feel exhausted and you

feel the weight of those metrics.

421

And then I go home at the end of the day

and I don't feel successful as a parent or

422

a partner or just in my day to day life.

423

And those are the moments to me

where it starts to feel like, what

424

is the cost of all of this for me?

425

And is it.

426

Is it truly worth it?

427

Is

428

Jeff Melnyk: that a

bit of a barometer now?

429

Like when you come home and you're

feeling that sense of being lost,

430

you go, Oh, wait a second, , I've

got to do something today.

431

Let's not go further again.

432

Yeah,

433

Amy VanHaren: I think that I , the

journey I've been on is I've started

434

to really understand More quickly when

I start to round the burnout cycle

435

clock, you know, towards real trouble.

436

And what do I need to get back to that?

437

And you and I spoke about this before,

but for me, for example, it's coming

438

home and it's sitting on the floor.

439

With my kids, if I can be present, I just

let it all take a deep breath and let the

440

weight of responsibility like slip away

and just be present in the moment, be,

441

present with my kids laughing and playing

a game and doing things and what have

442

you, that for me is usually the grounding.

443

That helps me, helps me come back to

what's really important and be able to

444

kind of let go, to surrender to some

of the, the stress of the rest of it.

445

Jeff Melnyk: Like, it sounds a little

bit like it's too simple, isn't it?

446

Like, I'm just gonna come home

and I'm gonna sit down with my

447

kids, but for me it's the same.

448

I have to get out and I have to run.

449

That's it.

450

I know that at the other end of

that, everything will be fine.

451

It will be like cleared down.

452

But if I, it's the step to going

to do that, that is the place

453

of the ultimate collapse, right?

454

And so when you figured that out, that

this is what I need, I need to come

455

home, I need to sit down on the floor.

456

Did that become a practice

or a ritual for you?

457

Or is it like, The emergency ripcord

to you know, whenever I'm in deep

458

peril, that's when we sit on the floor

now, is this a ritual and a practice

459

that you brought into your day to day?

460

Yeah.

461

Amy VanHaren: Yeah.

462

No, I love to sit on

the floor with my kids.

463

It's like my favorite part of the day now.

464

I feel.

465

I just get such joy from it and it just

brings so much goodness that I, I think

466

I've brought it much more into my life.

467

I'm not always perfect at it, but I do, I

definitely feel like I've reminded myself.

468

And the other thing is I've stopped

working so much on weekends.

469

Like part of that has also had to

be a real mindful, just being in

470

the moment and present, not just

after work, but on the weekends is.

471

You know, when you step away from

things, you realize you're not as

472

important as you think you are.

473

And that's a really good lesson to learn.

474

Like,

475

Jeff Melnyk: yeah,

476

Amy VanHaren: Oh, they get, they're

fine without me or that project didn't

477

get done, but it doesn't really matter.

478

I don't know.

479

For me, I've learned the hard way of

trying to, get to it all doesn't work.

480

And so I think sort of the, like being

a mother and having children and, and

481

just coming back to that, like, it's

way more worth it to just be with them

482

than it is to try and be everything to

everyone, especially when professionally.

483

Jeff Melnyk: Do you feel like that

your success in motherhood is mirrored

484

in your success in business or have

you been able to separate those two?

485

Amy VanHaren: I think.

486

in A really amazing, maybe unique

way for me, I have been much better

487

at feeling successful as a parent

than I have as a professional.

488

I think I follow my

intuition when I'm parenting.

489

I don't, I don't get wrapped up in those

external expectations in the same way.

490

I'm just able to kind of.

491

Be and navigate by what, what feels right

in my body and feels right in the moment.

492

And I mean, I'm super biased cause I have

the world's best kids, but I think but I

493

think that I don't, or maybe I couldn't

take it if I was worried about success.

494

In two really big places.

495

And so I worry more about the success

professionally and less as a parent.

496

I think I just have more grace

with myself, enjoy it more.

497

I mean, just go with the flow and

take a lot of deep joy from that,

498

that phase and that side of me.

499

Jeff Melnyk: And, and you've said to

me that when you can, like, get back to

500

let Amy be Amy, that allows you to sort

of navigate some of the challenges in

501

business in a different way, and that

really speaks to sort of leading from

502

your intuition rather than leading from

your headspace, your cognitive bit, and,

503

to be honest, I've seen you before

get into that space where you're

504

overanalyzing, you're overthinking things,

and it's like, just get back to the truth

505

that, you know have you noticed that

in business that if you can slow down

506

the brain space and get back into your

heart space it, it changes the quality

507

of, of how you feel about the business.

508

Amy VanHaren: Definitely.

509

I think that question, I have a coach

that asked me that question a lot is,

510

you know, well, where are you feeling it?

511

How are you feeling it in your body?

512

Or when you're chewing your head, get up.

513

It's probably the reason you

run when you're chewing your

514

head, get up, move around.

515

Like, you know, emotion needs motion to

kind of be released and get it out there.

516

And so I think I experienced that.

517

A lot.

518

And over, you know, over time as I've

grown as a, as a leader and as a founder,

519

I think I've gotten better at realizing

when I'm going deep on the overanalyzing

520

and the, Oh, cause sometimes you just

think you can think your way out of it.

521

You just, you can find it if you keep

thinking and rethinking, you know,

522

I don't know, maybe no one else has

been there, but, Oh, that, that, that,

523

and the only way to get out of that

sometimes is to surrender, is to take

524

a bunch of deep breaths, to hold your

breath, to, , you know, take a spin

525

around your chair to do those things.

526

And so I think it goes back to that.

527

Sometimes the, the best

solutions are the simplest.

528

Like, man, deep nostril, alternate nostril

breathing before a big conversation

529

or, or when I'm starting to feel in my

body, the weight of that anxiety and

530

overthinking lift, it changes everything.

531

Jeff Melnyk: I think it's really

interesting to think about founders having

532

those rituals for themselves, but how do

they bring those into business as well?

533

Like why have a board meeting around a

table, staring at a screen, looking at

534

a spreadsheet, when if we need to make

some big decisions, how do we get out

535

into the community or into the forest?

536

Or as we did with our team the other

day, get on some tandem bikes and cycle

537

down the cycle, down the beach, like it

changes the quality of the experience.

538

What changes the quality of the thinking?

539

And I think we get so stuck in these

habitual ways of running the company,

540

which I feel you've really embodied

a different way of being with your

541

team and with your family and with

the business that actually is leading

542

you to a better feeling of success

and less chance that you're going to.

543

Crash and burn,

544

Amy VanHaren: right?

545

Well, isn't that I mean, isn't

that the irony of it all?

546

Or at least for me, sometimes you feel

like you have to, it has to be done

547

this way when the opposite is so true.

548

And when you do it in the way that's

so intuitively the way I feel it

549

should be done or think it should be

done or feels, you know, just easy.

550

you know, It's interesting that you

say that about the team because we

551

we're coming up on our annual retreat

and , last year, essentially, I

552

rented, I rented a giant farmhouse.

553

In Maine.

554

And I said to everybody, we're

just moving in to the farmhouse.

555

There's sheep that you can pet.

556

There's like places to walk.

557

There's things you can do,

you know, all of that stuff.

558

And we're a small team, but there

were questions about, you know,

559

hotel rooms and this and that.

560

And I'm like, nope, nope.

561

You're going to just come and

get into the room and, you

562

know, just trust me all of that.

563

And we called it we called it

nourish, connect, crush it.

564

And so that was the plan is we

were going to just come together

565

and do all the things, but I just.

566

You know, I crafted the experience

for that in a way that mirrors the

567

experience we want parents to have when

they come to us and, and what it is.

568

And it just was this beautiful moment

where we all were outside the boardroom.

569

We were out from the zoom computers

and we, we just sort of embodied the

570

essence of what we wanted to create.

571

And it was really important to do

that, to put us in that environment.

572

At least I say, we'll see what they say.

573

Jeff Melnyk: Right.

574

On the feedback form.

575

Yeah.

576

So, so quite a few years now that

you've been running Pumpspotting, if

577

you could go back in time and give

your, I'm sitting on the floor.

578

In the, in the bathroom, having

the idea person back in time.

579

If you could do your quantum leap

moment and Oh, that's a pop reference.

580

That's probably going to

only hit one listener.

581

Go back, you got, thank you.

582

Go back in time and give yourself

some advice as an entrepreneur.

583

What would be the one thing that

you'd really want to say to yourself?

584

Amy VanHaren: I think trust.

585

your intuition.

586

, don't fight it.

587

Don't fight the flow of

what you're feeling and what

588

you sort of see to be true.

589

That you know, that I really

believe that that which is meant

590

for us will not pass us by.

591

And I think the best way to find that

alignment Is to not succumb to the

592

pressures of what we think and to really

just do the best we can with who we

593

are and how we show up in the world.

594

Jeff Melnyk: That which is meant

for us will not pass us by.

595

That's an Oprah tweet.

596

ObViously, we want to give that advice

to other founders, but what else if you

597

think about other founders who are in

your position now scaling up, getting

598

more funding is facing that challenge.

599

What advice would you

give to other funders?

600

And I'm going to I'm going to change

my question slightly because I know

601

that you are You know, female founders

trying to get funding in today's, well

602

in forever's market has been tough.

603

There's not many of you seeking funding.

604

I think it's less than 4 percent

or something receive of female

605

founders receive funding.

606

I'm going to fact check that, but that

was the number that was in my head.

607

Yeah, I think it's even

608

Amy VanHaren: less.

609

I think it's a

610

Jeff Melnyk: lot of 2%.

611

Yay.

612

What do you, what advice do you have

for female founders out there today?

613

Amy VanHaren: Well, first and

foremost, I would say you are enough.

614

I want every female founder to know that.

615

No matter what your path looks

like, funding, not growth.

616

I just wish someone would tell

me that, , telling me this a lot.

617

, what you're doing is...

618

really good, really

amazing and really enough.

619

And so there's your soft advice from me.

620

The hard advice or flip flop is

that, , I would say hold off on

621

fundraising as long as you can.

622

I think there are lots of ways.

623

There's grants, there's,

, opportunities, revenue to get

624

creative with bringing on funding.

625

And I, , if I look back, that's one

thing I think just keep building as long

626

as you can until you really, , need to.

627

When you start down the funding

path, look for the champions.

628

Like, you'll know when it's a

fit for these people you want to

629

spend a lot of time with in the

future, , when they become investors.

630

And so look for those people, , trust

the conversations with those

631

people and and move on quickly.

632

If they aren't

633

Jeff Melnyk: a fit don't try

to convince the ones that you

634

don't feel there's a match with.

635

Yeah,

636

Amy VanHaren: no, I, in fact, this

isn't my advice, but I just read

637

an amazing, there's another female

founder that I just think is really

638

inspirational and she's funding right now.

639

And she said the best thing she

did is she asked those who invested

640

in her already why they said yes.

641

versus us always saying,

why did you say no?

642

And those, why they said yes, helped

her find the next fit investors and,

643

you know, think about, so that's,

that's a good curious question.

644

Why did you say yes

645

Jeff Melnyk: to us?

646

That's a great one.

647

We're almost at our time.

648

I know.

649

Um, But I've made time for a

quickfire round and I don't believe

650

in telling everyone the quickfire

round questions, although obviously

651

if you've listened to the podcast to

the end you might know them already.

652

However, you really need to tap into your

intuition and since we've been saying,

653

let's tap into what makes Amy Amy.

654

Just speak to these from your

gut, little nostril breathing.

655

Amy VanHaren: Should I grab

a crystal or something?

656

Jeff Melnyk: Oh, Emily, our producer,

is in awe now as someone who is

657

fully, she probably has one here.

658

She's got one on her desk.

659

There we go.

660

Crystals are present.

661

Okay.

662

Here we go.

663

What three words would you use to describe

the workplace culture you'd like to lead?

664

Amy VanHaren: Flexible.

665

Family friendly.

666

Delightful.

667

Jeff Melnyk: I thought you were

going to give me the third F

668

there, but we'll go with Damn!

669

Fierce.

670

Fierce.

671

Nice.

672

What three words would you use

to define the future of work?

673

Amy VanHaren: Female centric,

674

lower stress.

675

And uh,

676

Jeff Melnyk: Ooh!

677

It's just it!

678

It's everywhere.

679

Yes.

680

All of those were hyphenated or

acronymed and that's okay too.

681

Okay.

682

Which one quality is your

superpower or strength?

683

By quality I mean which

one leadership quality

684

Amy VanHaren: I think I'm nurturing.

685

I think I'm nurturing.

686

I want the best for people.

687

And that

688

Jeff Melnyk: comes through.

689

Awesome.

690

And which one is your

development area or stretch?

691

Which one are you working on?

692

Clarity.

693

Oh, it says the analysis paralysis.

694

Yeah.

695

Intentional clarity and

brain clarity or mostly?

696

Amy VanHaren: Just providing

clarity in all aspects of things.

697

I think clarity is Vital to people

and sometimes it's hard when you're

698

a big expansive over thinker.

699

That's true

700

Jeff Melnyk: What is your most

treasured spot outside of work

701

besides the floor with your kids

702

Amy VanHaren: our backyard

703

Jeff Melnyk: sauna?

704

Oh, hello Hello, Maine.

705

Yeah, is it?

706

Yes.

707

Amy VanHaren: We have a pool for the

cold plunge in the backyard sauna

708

and it's Amazing for mental health.

709

It's like our family goes in there

and has the best conversations.

710

It's like this little

magical in our backyard.

711

Very

712

Jeff Melnyk: cute.

713

And is there a person or brand you'd

like to shine a light on today?

714

Amy VanHaren: Yes.

715

I'm gonna have to say my husband.

716

Because it's really hard to be a

partner to someone who is trying

717

to build something as ambitious and

risky and time intensive as this is.

718

And he's, I'm really grateful

right now that he's sort of

719

helping our family run and.

720

And in the trenches with me.

721

Jeff Melnyk: Awesome.

722

Final question.

723

Okay.

724

And I know you've just been to

Nashville, so no excuse on this one.

725

If you had to pick one song

that represented who you are

726

as a leader, what would it be?

727

Amy VanHaren: Walking on Sunshine?

728

Jeff Melnyk: Ooh!

729

Katrina and the Waves?

730

. It is the best.

731

And now everyone has

it stuck in their head.

732

So that's good.

733

You're welcome.

734

Enjoy that for your day.

735

Better than Sitting by T.

736

J.

737

Mack, if you guys know that one.

738

Yeah?

739

Mm.

740

Mm hmm.

741

Sitting on the floor is

the opposite of standing.

742

There you go.

743

This has been delightful.

744

Thank you so much for making the time.

745

I'm so excited to see what 2024 brings

for you, the family, and for Pumpspotting.

746

And as always, we at Within support

you and love your journey, so thank

747

you so much for being with us.

748

Amy VanHaren: Thank you for

a delightful conversation.

749

Jeff Melnyk: Awesome.

750

Thanks for listening, everyone.

751

This has been an awesome opportunity

to get inside the heart and the mind of

752

a founder and what success looks like

and how to avoid burning out, which

753

we can so often get in the trap of.

754

You can find more info about

Amy Van Heron on amyvanheron.

755

com.

756

And of course, Pumpspotting.

757

com tune into our podcast every other

week for more episodes on what's happening

758

in the culture and leadership space.

759

What's on the mind of the leaders

committed to change in our community

760

and other future work content that you

crave re imagining work from within is

761

available wherever you listen to podcasts.