Listen to the song

• YouTube - https://youtu.be/6ck__iCtc-8
• Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/track/5IQPBVTvQ4mfdkzs0GFEZ6?si=2f866ddf86394a66
• Apple Music - https://music.apple.com/ca/song/shes-got-you/1443840404
• Amazon - https://music.amazon.com/albums/B07L6C8HX4?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_67xRkpxxKOMh1xxmkCOiFGwwx&trackAsin=B07L6B9462

Key takeaways

• Trist and Elaine discuss Patsy Cline's distinctive voice, characterized by its clear, mature tone and emotional depth, which made her an ideal choice for songs like "She's Got You." ​They highlight how her voice conveys pain and anguish, making her storytelling relatable and heartfelt
• Elaine and Trist analyze the song's lyrics, focusing on the tangible objects mentioned: a signed picture, shared records, and a class ring, that symbolize the protagonist's memories of a lost love. ​They emphasize the emotional weight of the refrain, "But she's got you," which encapsulates the song's theme of heartbreak and longing
• Trist and Elaine dig into the difficulties artists face in promoting their work, including feelings of discomfort, fear of being annoying, and the exhaustion of managing personal branding and marketing strategies in a competitive digital landscape

About us

Trist Curless is a Los Angeles-based vocalist, educator, and sound engineer. As a performer, Trist has toured worldwide as a co-founder of the pop-jazz vocal group m-pact and a 10 year member of the Grammy-award winning The Manhattan Transfer. In addition to these two vocal powerhouse groups, he’s also performed with Take 6, Bobby McFerrin, New York Voices, Vox Audio, Naturally 7, and The Swingle Singers. His latest venture, The LHR Project, is a new vocal group collective celebrating legendary jazz vocal group Lambert, Hendricks, and Ross.

As an audio engineer, Trist has toured nationally with several vocal groups and bands in a large variety of venues, working for Grammy award winners Pentatonix and Take 6, as well as prominent a cappella vocal groups Straight No Chaser, VoicePlay, and Accent.

Elaine Chao, M.Ed is a San Francisco Bay Area-based vocalist, multi-instrumentalist, vocal percussionist, and songwriter whose career spans a cappella, contemporary worship, and classical music. She has leveraged her training in classical and choral music over the course of her contemporary performance, including in orchestras for musical theatre and in sacred spaces. In addition to music, she also is a martial artist and published author. She currently leads a product management team at a major software company dedicated to creative expression. All statements in this podcast are her own and do not reflect the opinions of her employer.

Elaine: Hey, Trist, what do we have this week?

Trist: Today we have one of my favorite country singers ever.

Trist: Well, I think of her as a country singer.

Trist: I guess at the time, these were such big hits.

Trist: I don't know if people thought

Trist: of it that way then, but I did,

Trist: really her third big song from

Trist: Patsy Cline.

Elaine: Oh!

Trist: "She's Got You."

Elaine: Okay. Well, anything you want to

Elaine: say about this before we get

Elaine: into it?

Trist: You know, just the usual fare from us.

Trist: We really do appreciate that you're listening.

Trist: No matter how, where, or why

Trist: you're listening, we appreciate

Trist: having you join us and like to

Trist: encourage you to improve your

Trist: listening environment if you

Trist: can.

Trist: We're all about the actual act of listening.

Trist: Again, no matter what you're doing, we appreciate it.

Trist: But if you can put on the better headphones, be by the better

Trist: speakers, getting the better listening room, please do that

Trist: now before you listen.

Trist: Thanks.

Elaine: Awesome.

Elaine: We're going to go ahead and leave the links to this song in

Elaine: the show notes.

Elaine: So please pause the podcast,

Elaine: listen to this maybe once, maybe

Elaine: twice, maybe more and we will be

Elaine: right back.

Elaine: And we are back.

Elaine: I just have to say this.

Elaine: song is the sound of my childhood.

Elaine: It is the

Trist: Oh,

Elaine: soundtrack

Trist: really?

Elaine: of my childhood.

Trist: Really?

Elaine: Yeah.

Trist: How so?

Elaine: We did this bonus episode, near

Elaine: the very beginning of the show

Elaine: where we talked about our

Elaine: musical influences.

Trist: Yeah.

Elaine: And for me, a big one was my dad and just the songs that he was

Elaine: completely obsessed with.

Elaine: And this was one of them.

Trist: Oh.

Elaine: So every single road trip, every single time that we were hanging

Elaine: out together, I mean, karaoke, it was everywhere.

Elaine: And so I could sing all of the

Elaine: background tracks because I was

Elaine: in the back of a minivan

Elaine: singing.

Elaine: Ah, yeah.

Elaine: With the background

Trist: Oh, wow.

Elaine: tracks there.

Elaine: So this was a very familiar song for me.

Elaine: And at the same time, it was a

Elaine: great challenge to sit and

Elaine: really think of it like a

Elaine: musician because, before, it was

Elaine: just the soundtrack of my

Elaine: childhood, right?

Elaine: Oh, it was just that song that dad listens to or that is

Elaine: playing in the car again as we're going on some kind of a

Elaine: road trip down to Los Angeles.

Elaine: And so I think that listening to

Elaine: it this time was a different

Elaine: experience because I was looking

Elaine: at it through a very specific

Elaine: lens, which is how we were

Elaine: listening to it as The

Elaine: Musician's Loupe.

Elaine: But that being said, I would love to hear why you chose this

Elaine: song because I certainly have a lot of associations with it.

Trist: I love that.

Trist: That is interesting when you

Trist: have a song like that, that

Trist: either in one part of your life

Trist: where maybe you had a gig where

Trist: you just had to play it so much

Trist: that you really got sick of it,

Trist: or you just grew to love it or

Trist: whatever, where you have

Trist: something like that where, like

Trist: you said, your dad played it, it

Trist: was on the rotation heavy and

Trist: you heard it so many times and

Trist: then way later, that's your

Trist: instant reaction.

Trist: But then to switch and have to think of it differently or hear

Trist: things you never heard before.

Trist: Um, even when I choose some of these, some of my favorites that

Trist: I choose for this, the fact that then we dissect them and talk

Trist: about lyrics, or I'll just hear a part I never heard before.

Trist: I like that about this.

Trist: I just every time I hear this

Trist: song, it's usually used pretty

Trist: effectively.

Trist: There's not a lot of deep meanings.

Trist: It's exactly face value here, right?

Trist: It's telling you exactly what's going on.

Trist: And with all of Patsy Cline's songs, she has that sound.

Trist: You can it's obvious why she was

Trist: chosen to record these kinds of

Trist: songs.

Trist: You can just hear the pain or anguish in her voice in these

Trist: songs like "Crazy" or "I Fall to Pieces" or any of the other ones

Trist: that she's known for.

Trist: It's kind of the same.

Trist: It's like, oh, here she is

Trist: again, telling us another sad

Trist: story.

Trist: Oh, it's just crushing.

Trist: I really like how on the

Trist: podcast, I like to dig into lots

Trist: of different things that have a

Trist: lot of complexity and layers,

Trist: but occasionally I like to get

Trist: back to something that's just

Trist: pretty sparse and basic, but yet

Trist: really heartfelt.

Trist: Especially in the reaction you have to listening.

Trist: There's more than just listening to the specific parts that are

Trist: going on, like the whole total really can get you.

Elaine: Let's start out with her voice

Elaine: because I think that she

Elaine: definitely has a very

Elaine: distinctive voice.

Elaine: And at the same time, like I'm thinking about what is it about

Elaine: her voice and her artistry that really makes this song?

Elaine: And for me, part of it is that

Elaine: she doesn't have a very thin

Elaine: voice.

Elaine: There's actually a lot of foundation in

Trist: Right.

Elaine: her voice.

Elaine: And so the way that she is

Elaine: singing is probably a little bit

Elaine: closer to what we would consider

Elaine: belting.

Trist: Especially

Elaine: Um.

Trist: in an era when you couldn't do a lot necessarily to make it be

Trist: any different than it is.

Trist: Now, you can have someone with

Trist: maybe kind of has a thinner,

Trist: weaker voice and you can do so

Trist: much

Elaine: Right.

Trist: to make them sound better.

Trist: Those mics are capturing what she really has.

Elaine: And I think that's what I hear

Elaine: from a lot of the 1950s, 1960s

Elaine: songs that I've listened to in

Elaine: the past, is that they have

Elaine: tended to elevate some of these

Elaine: thinner voices or these more

Elaine: nasal voices.

Elaine: And Patsy Cline's voice is so clear and bell tone.

Elaine: It has a foundation that really comes with more mature voices, I

Elaine: find, as opposed to some of the younger voices that maybe skew a

Elaine: little bit higher.

Elaine: Is that something that you're hearing in

Trist: Right,

Elaine: her voice?

Trist: right.

Trist: Even if it's a great voice, more difficult for like a 16 year old

Trist: to sing this song.

Trist: Like they haven't felt enough pain in their life in the right

Trist: way to, to actually deliver this in the way that she does.

Trist: Also, I think, in most instances

Trist: for her tunes and anyone like

Trist: this, a real key is

Trist: understanding the singer's voice

Trist: and knowing where to put those

Trist: good notes.

Trist: These things, she sounds like you can hear the anguish and the

Trist: pain as she's kind of belting through this part of her range.

Trist: It's like built in that way.

Trist: Like the I've got you the low, the when she's first talking

Trist: about it's lower.

Trist: It's more in the lower part of her range when she's starting to

Trist: tell the story.

Trist: But then as she's kind of exclaiming what she's feeling,

Trist: it's moving up into a range.

Trist: And you can bet that if this was written in another key, it may

Trist: or may not have been.

Trist: But whenever they got to oh, it's going to be Patsy Cline

Trist: that sings this.

Trist: No, this needs to be in this key.

Trist: So these notes sound like that in her voice, very specifically

Trist: done that way.

Elaine: Yeah, I was reading that this

Elaine: song was pitched specifically to

Elaine: her.

Elaine: So I think it was not

Elaine: necessarily one that was in a

Elaine: pool that then she selected out

Elaine: of, though

Trist: Write.

Elaine: they would need to change it.

Elaine: So I think it was probably written for

Trist: Specifically

Elaine: her.

Elaine: Um,

Trist: for that

Elaine: exactly.

Trist: sound?

Trist: Yeah.

Elaine: So I think that there was some other things that I wanted to

Elaine: point out about this specific recording, which is where she is

Elaine: on the rhythm and where she maybe chooses to sing a little

Elaine: bit off rhythm for punctuation.

Elaine: Can you talk a little bit about that?

Trist: Yeah. She does these things

Trist: where it almost bring my music

Trist: education up.

Trist: show it off once again, there's

Trist: a German style, which is, talk

Trist: singing Sprechstimme.

Elaine: Oh!

Trist: How about that?

Trist: where there's a melody, but then

Trist: instead of rhythmically, being

Trist: musically accurate with maybe a

Trist: note that's written, it's more

Trist: conversational.

Trist: So they kind of come off of the voice a little bit.

Trist: It's, when she sings, "I've got your memory / or has it got me,"

Trist: it sounds like she's speaking it even though she is singing it,

Trist: but it's not really in time.

Trist: It's not way off, but it's just enough to catch your attention.

Trist: I think that's also a key for this.

Trist: It seems more plain.

Trist: It seems more relatable.

Trist: You're not just listening to a performance.

Trist: Someone is telling you this story and sometimes literally

Trist: it's closer to telling a story than singing a story.

Elaine: Yeah, I really noticed that as well.

Elaine: Just that little catch in her

Elaine: voice is enough to catch our

Elaine: attention and really give us

Elaine: that sense that she's telling

Elaine: the story.

Trist: Yeah.

Elaine: Now, the interesting thing about this is that for some reason in

Elaine: my memory, I had had that she was much more rubato at the very

Elaine: end, at that very last line, and it was a lot more in time than I

Elaine: thought it was.

Trist: Right?

Elaine: Um, so it was an interesting

Elaine: thing for me to think about

Elaine: memory and about how I

Elaine: remembered the song and my

Elaine: experience of it now years

Elaine: later.

Trist: Right.

Trist: Just like we were talking about when you go back.

Trist: So because it might have slowed just a bit, you remember that in

Trist: all these years later, that's the thing that's amplified.

Trist: Our memories just evolve that way.

Trist: So I remember that in songs too.

Trist: Like I was saying, some of these songs that I pick, in my mind,

Trist: oh, I love how it does this.

Trist: And then I listen and go, okay, well, it does, but not as much

Trist: as I remember it.

Trist: Yeah, because it's a key that you remember.

Trist: So it kind of grows just a little bit over the years.

Elaine: Well, let's switch gears a little bit and talk about the

Elaine: arrangement because, it was interesting that you mentioned

Elaine: country because at first I was thinking, well, was it country?

Elaine: I think that it was hard for me to classify at first because I

Elaine: went for country.

Elaine: I was like, okay, this is

Elaine: definitely an older country

Elaine: song.

Elaine: But then I was thinking about

Elaine: some of the pop songs that were

Elaine: released in the 1950s, there

Elaine: were a lot of things that were

Elaine: very similar.

Elaine: You know, "Sixteen Candles," the

Elaine: kinds of things that were

Elaine: released in the nineteen

Elaine: fifties.

Elaine: what we had found on a soundtrack called Senior Prom.

Elaine: And that's in like quotes right

Elaine: there because it was literally

Elaine: called "Senior Prom" from the

Elaine: 1950s.

Elaine: Right?

Trist: Sure.

Elaine: So I'm thinking about these songs, and there were a lot of

Elaine: things that were very reminiscent of that.

Elaine: I'm thinking about the harmony backgrounds that are sung.

Elaine: I'm thinking about the pluck bass arpeggiation.

Elaine: There was also like a keyboard that I was listening to, like,

Elaine: man, what is that keyboard?

Elaine: I looked it up.

Elaine: And it turns out most people

Elaine: seem to think it's a Wurlitzer

Elaine: with

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: some kind of vibrato.

Trist: Yep.

Elaine: And so I was like, oh man, it is a very classic kind of sound.

Elaine: And then I think what threw me off was the piano, because it

Elaine: was very, what I would call like "tinkly" in only the upper

Trist: That's

Elaine: register

Trist: a very

Elaine: was being

Trist: technical

Elaine: played.

Trist: musical term, folks.

Elaine: Yeah,

Trist: Only the best info here

Elaine: exactly.

Trist: from the very highfalutin educated "the tinkly piano."

Elaine: The tinkly piano.

Trist: Don't bother looking it up.

Elaine: So thinking about this upper register and really that being

Elaine: the fills in

Trist: Yeah.

Elaine: between where the vocals are.

Elaine: So where an electric guitar would play nowadays.

Elaine: But that was a very specific

Elaine: kind of choice when it came to

Elaine: where the piano was playing, how

Elaine: much and how much it wasn't

Elaine: playing in this location, some

Elaine: of the choices that were made

Elaine: there.

Elaine: So out of all of these things, I

Elaine: just described this massive

Elaine: arrangement and it's pretty flat

Elaine: throughout where

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: it's just the same elements over and over again.

Elaine: Where do you see this being country?

Trist: Oh. It's interesting.

Trist: I think a lot of times more than what we actually hear, we just

Trist: in trying to share information with others and relate

Trist: descriptions, just the fact that it's Patsy Cline and the other

Trist: songs that she's had.

Trist: I worked at record stores so many years.

Trist: So sometimes I just think of people like where they were kept

Trist: in the store, which is this weird dichotomy I have with

Trist: being a musical artist.

Trist: And "I'm open" and "music

Trist: doesn't have labels" and it's

Trist: whatever.

Trist: But when you work at a store and you need to find something, "No!

Trist: This goes there!" right?

Trist: Like, "No!

Trist: Patsy Cline goes in country, so

Trist: I can find it in the C in

Trist: country."

Trist: And yet my artistic- Well, I

Trist: mean, is it a country song or is

Trist: it a popular song?" those are

Trist: clashing when I think of those

Trist: things.

Trist: I suppose I just said country

Trist: mostly because of the kind of

Trist: song that it is, the kind of

Trist: storytelling and really her

Trist: previous output also being

Trist: similar.

Elaine: I was taking a look at this.

Elaine: And this is part of the reason I was asking this question is that

Elaine: with Patsy Cline, it did hit the Billboard Hot Country and

Elaine: Western sides, like peak position number 1,

Trist: Sure.

Elaine: but it also hit the Billboard Hot 100, number 14.

Trist: Yeah.

Elaine: And so I think it was both of them.

Elaine: But every time it's been recorded ever since, it was

Elaine: underneath country, like Loretta

Trist: Right.

Elaine: Lynn did a version of this that

Elaine: made it into the Hot Country

Elaine: Songs.

Elaine: other people who are country artists have recorded this.

Elaine: It was funny, after you

Elaine: suggested this song, I was out

Elaine: and about.

Elaine: I don't remember exactly where it was, but I heard it playing

Elaine: and I was like, oh, but it wasn't the Patsy Cline version.

Elaine: It was some cover.

Elaine: And so

Trist: Yep.

Elaine: it's like, okay, there we go.

Elaine: It's

Trist: Yeah. I feel

Elaine: out.

Trist: like it's

Elaine: And.

Trist: been covered quite a bit.

Trist: It's such a good song.

Trist: That's a good sign, the fact

Trist: that people want to cover it so

Trist: much.

Elaine: Yeah. So let's switch gears a little bit and talk about the

Elaine: lyrics because we haven't dug into the lyrics.

Elaine: I know that you said that like what you see is what you get,

Elaine: but I wanted to talk a little bit about the imagery here,

Elaine: about what I see here.

Elaine: Did you want to talk about this

Elaine: or do you want me to take this

Elaine: away?

Trist: Oh, you in the back of the

Trist: minivan can tell me all about

Trist: the lyrics.

Elaine: That sounds a lot more risqué than it really is.

Elaine: You know, in thinking about this, I was looking at the

Elaine: lyrics itself and thinking about, well, there are a couple

Elaine: of elements that she brings up as visuals, right?

Elaine: There's a signed picture that she talks about.

Elaine: There are these shared records that she talks about.

Elaine: These are tangible things.

Elaine: And then there's this class ring.

Elaine: And so I think about the signed

Elaine: picture, which is all right,

Elaine: maybe in today's parlance, maybe

Elaine: a little bit unusual because

Elaine: people don't really sign their

Elaine: pictures.

Elaine: Shared records,

Trist: MM.

Elaine: that's definitely something that I think people would understand.

Elaine: Even today where you're like,

Elaine: hey, we have these shared

Elaine: belongings, but it's also this

Elaine: shared experience,

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: you know, whether we're

Elaine: listening to music together or

Elaine: whatnot.

Elaine: And then there's this class

Elaine: ring, which I think is very

Elaine: telling of the time because of

Elaine: the importance of the class ring

Elaine: to

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: high school and college culture.

Elaine: And I think probably more high

Elaine: school culture in this case,

Elaine: mostly, I guess, because of my

Elaine: understanding of quote unquote,

Elaine: senior prom.

Elaine: But if I think about that, to your point, it is like she has

Elaine: all the tangible things, but she doesn't have the man.

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: And so, the song itself is

Elaine: written in a way where she

Elaine: paints this picture of all the

Elaine: things that they have had

Elaine: together and then ends with a

Elaine: single line

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: of, I've got these things.

Elaine: I've got these o]bjects.

Elaine: But she's got you.

Trist: Right.

Trist: Which is kind of the- there's not really a chorus, so it's

Trist: like the last line, like the repeated line chorus.

Trist: It's almost like a ballad, Other than that has like bridges like

Trist: that the of the B section.

Trist: Um, so yeah, it's kind of odd.

Trist: It doesn't necessarily there isn't like a regular chord, but

Trist: it has that little refrain at the end of each one of those

Trist: verses is kind of the hook.

Trist: The serves the same function as what a chorus does.

Trist: There's a, um, there's a lot of songs like that.

Trist: When you think about it, it's like, oh wow, I've always

Trist: thought about that and never thought about the fact that it

Trist: doesn't really have like a refrain, a chorus.

Trist: So it's like a one line refrain, I suppose.

Elaine: Yeah. That was something that I noticed as well.

Elaine: I was like, what?

Elaine: It doesn't have a chorus?

Elaine: It just has these bridges.

Elaine: And I was like,

Trist: Yeah.

Elaine: is the bridge actually a chorus?

Elaine: But then I really thought of it as a bridge.

Elaine: and

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: we had talked about the bridge

Elaine: as being really the carrier of

Elaine: truth.

Elaine: And this is one bridge that it repeats twice.

Elaine: And so

Trist: Right,

Elaine: as I

Trist: right.

Elaine: take a look at that, it's "I've got your memory / or has it got

Elaine: me?" And there's a sense of like, who is in control of these

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: memories?

Trist: Right.

Elaine: Is she under thrall to these memories?

Elaine: And I think that that's

Elaine: something that she is really

Elaine: struggling with.

Elaine: And, "I really don't know / but I know it won't let me be."

Elaine: So she is caught in the spell of these memories.

Elaine: Now, what really is interesting to me, I think this is where I

Elaine: lean towards the bridge is that it lands on a V. And so it

Elaine: really draws into that downbeat of the verse.

Elaine: it doesn't

Trist: Yep.

Elaine: come to a closure in the way that your typical chorus might

Elaine: be, which is why I was like, oh, it's a bridge.

Elaine: It feels like a bridge.

Trist: Yeah.

Elaine: Maybe it's not a bridge, but I

Elaine: think you and I ended up on the

Elaine: same

Trist: Well,

Elaine: page on this one.

Trist: yeah, it's kind of semantics.

Trist: it's a B section.

Trist: there's two

Elaine: Right?

Trist: A's and then a B and then an A

Trist: and then a B, and then an A.

Trist: Sometimes people will just call

Trist: that the B section a bridge,

Trist: again semantics.

Trist: It's called lots of different things.

Trist: I love that the simplicity of

Trist: that everybody can relate to

Trist: those things.

Trist: Yeah, it's great.

Elaine: Well, any last thoughts on this before we move on?

Trist: Oh, that's it.

Trist: It's just really good.

Trist: Hits me in the feels every time.

Elaine: Well, it hits me in the feels for lots of different reasons as

Trist: Ah

Elaine: well.

Elaine: And

Trist: yeah.

Elaine: so thank you for this trip down memory lane.

Trist: Yeah. About that, I picked one you knew.

Elaine: Exactly.

Trist: Sweet.

Elaine: One that I knew very, very well.

Trist: Great.

Trist: Love it.

Elaine: Okay, with that, let's switch gears and move on to:

Trist: I've got your mailbag.

Elaine: That's right.

Elaine: The mail bag.

Trist: This is the place where we would love to hear from you.

Trist: Anything that we've mentioned about this or any of the other

Trist: songs, artists, producers, arrangers, records, or you love

Trist: the way we covered something or we missed some drastic, very

Trist: important point or, it has a certain meaning in your life.

Trist: Any of those things, please, please, please write to us and

Trist: let us know in the mailbag.

Elaine: That's right.

Elaine: You can reach us via email at themusiciansloupe, that's

Elaine: L-O-U-P-E at gmail.com.

Elaine: Or you can reach out to us via

Elaine: Instagram and Threads at

Elaine: themusiciansloupe.

Elaine: So this week's mailbag also comes from Threads, and it is

Elaine: from a user named goshfather from November of 2025.

Elaine: And he says: "Looking cringe learning to promote or talk

Elaine: about your music only lasts for a little while.

Elaine: Never having made a peep to let anyone know about the art you've

Elaine: created with your whole heart and mind while the world passes

Elaine: you by lasts your entire life."

Trist: You're right, goshfather, this is true, true, true, true, true.

Trist: As artists, a lot of times you

Trist: feel like you're just doing the

Trist: thing and generally, most

Trist: artists do not love promoting

Trist: their own stuff, their own

Trist: material.

Trist: They don't like spending time

Trist: trying to get people to come to

Trist: shows.

Trist: I don't know why; there's this aversion to it.

Trist: Like you're boasting about it.

Trist: or I don't know exactly what it is.

Trist: And not all artists are like that, but boy, I know a lot that

Trist: I'm like, man, I wish I'd have known about that.

Trist: You should have made sure you did more to let me know.

Trist: And I really want to go.

Trist: And I find I have to push myself too, when I have created

Trist: something just to.

Trist: "Hey, you should listen to this."

Trist: Or, "hey, you should come to this concert.: But you're right.

Trist: Whatever feeling I have about, "Ugh, I don't want to be out

Trist: there," that's going to leave right away, especially going to

Trist: leave when there's a lot of people at my show.

Elaine: And I think that there are a couple of things in there.

Elaine: Like one of them, there's this

Elaine: reticence you were talking

Elaine: about, about really just putting

Elaine: ourselves forward.

Elaine: It seems a little gauche sometimes.

Elaine: I think we have the sense of, oh, man, am I being annoying?

Elaine: Are my friends really going to

Elaine: appreciate it if I push this

Elaine: information out?

Elaine: Is it repetitive?

Elaine: Especially if you're busy.

Elaine: Sometimes it can be a little bit hard to feel like pushing things

Elaine: out is really like not annoying your friends because you're

Elaine: like, oh, there's more to our life than just gigs.

Elaine: So I think that that's one thing that comes up quite frequently,

Elaine: at least for me.

Elaine: The second one, though, might be exhaustion.

Elaine: There is a sense right now where

Elaine: everyone has to have their

Elaine: personal brand and they're

Elaine: constantly marketing to one

Elaine: another.

Elaine: And so in some ways, in order to

Elaine: be authentic, it seems like you

Elaine: don't want to do that kind of

Elaine: thing.

Elaine: And also, it's exhausting just to remember, like you were

Elaine: saying, to put things out and make sure that people hear about

Elaine: it ahead of time, whether it's like creating the artwork or

Elaine: making sure that it gets scheduled or just remembering to

Elaine: send it out.

Trist: Well, that's part of the

Trist: evolution that we've spoken of

Trist: many times over these episodes

Trist: of the podcast, the evolution of

Trist: artists needing to take on more

Trist: themselves.

Trist: So again, it's great that artists don't necessarily need a

Trist: label or a big company to support and do all these things

Trist: for them to succeed.

Trist: So it's great that you can go

Trist: out in the world and do things

Trist: on your own, but then that also

Trist: means you need to have promotion

Trist: or you need to do it yourself,

Trist: or you need to be able to hire

Trist: someone to promote things or

Trist: post things.

Trist: And now there's not just, oh, I'm gonna see that one ad on

Trist: that one TV show that I always watch, or I'm gonna hear it on

Trist: the one radio station I listen to, I'm going to look in the one

Trist: newspaper that I look at.

Trist: It's not that easy anymore.

Trist: There's thousands of ways that people get information.

Trist: So you're trying to cover all the bases.

Trist: And then the way that some of it has changed.

Trist: "Oh, I know a lot of people check this."

Trist: Well, the algorithms are as such that people who are even like

Trist: supposedly on your list of people don't see the information

Trist: you want to send as much.

Trist: So you send it ten different times.

Trist: And some people are like, wow,

Trist: why do they post this ad ten

Trist: times?

Trist: And one person's like, oh, hey, look, I don't really see much

Trist: from this person because it just doesn't hit them.

Trist: So, I've noticed an interesting trend back to email lists.

Trist: So

Elaine: That's right.

Trist: kind of as email was starting,

Trist: it was like, ooh, and instead of

Trist: just sign up to be on our email

Trist: list that got really, really

Trist: big.

Trist: And then over time with social media, it was like, oh, well, I

Trist: don't need all of that because all my people just follow here

Trist: on, on Facebook or on Twitter.

Trist: And then those got eaten up by

Trist: like, well, not all of your

Trist: people are necessarily going to

Trist: get it.

Trist: You don't know who's going to do it unless you want to pay us.

Trist: So slowly but surely, I've seen

Trist: a lot of artists getting back to

Trist: an email list that they can deal

Trist: with, that they know that their

Trist: people are getting the

Trist: information.

Elaine: That's right.

Elaine: And I think that that comes back

Elaine: to the sense of marketing and

Elaine: about social strategy or

Elaine: marketing strategy.

Elaine: That is a hard thing for

Elaine: artists, especially, to grapple

Elaine: with because it is a part of the

Elaine: industry.

Elaine: But as you were saying, it is

Elaine: something that we as artists are

Elaine: increasingly expected to have

Elaine: responsibility over.

Elaine: So you're not just expected to be a good musician, you're also

Elaine: expected now to be a marketing professional, which I think is

Elaine: maybe a little disappointing for a lot of people.

Elaine: Like, all I want to do is make my music.

Elaine: But especially if you're trying to get your own work out there,

Elaine: sometimes you need to push a little bit harder.

Trist: True story.

Elaine: Well, let's talk about the flip

Elaine: side, because I think you

Elaine: mentioned it briefly as

Elaine: consumers.

Elaine: What kind of encouragement can you give to some of our friends

Elaine: who are trying to market to us or trying to get us to show up

Elaine: to their gigs or their events or buy their music?

Trist: Be creative.

Trist: I think people see a lot of information these days in all

Trist: the different platforms and the way that we gather information.

Trist: So the more creative you can be

Trist: to catch someone's eye, the

Trist: better.

Trist: And again, not to be afraid.

Trist: "Well, you know, I posted that one day a month ago.

Trist: I put one message on Facebook and it has all of the times that

Trist: my shows are."

Trist: Again, you have to do more than that.

Trist: Don't be afraid to do it multiple times.

Trist: I will say every once in a while, someone who is very

Trist: aggressive at making sure they cover all the bases.

Trist: but really as fast as I think, wow, man, I've seen info about

Trist: that show so many times.

Trist: I can barely even get annoyed by that.

Trist: And I'm almost instantly like, well, yeah, of course.

Trist: Good for them.

Trist: Like, great.

Trist: You got to do what you got to do.

Trist: I know about it now.

Trist: So yeah, use the tools you have at your disposal.

Trist: Always look for, smarter ways to do things and smarter ways to

Trist: get someone's attention, differentiate yourself from the

Trist: other info we get.

Elaine: I think for me, I would say really think about how do you

Elaine: reach people multiple times?

Elaine: Because it's never that first time.

Elaine: Like if it flies across my feed

Elaine: and I'm not in a convenient

Elaine: place to write it down, I'm

Elaine: going to forget about it or I'm

Elaine: going to make a mental note to

Elaine: myself and then forget about it,

Elaine: because that's just the way my

Elaine: brain works.

Elaine: I think a lot of people need to see things multiple times, and

Elaine: the times that I have actually been close to coming to

Elaine: something really has been: I've seen the reminder multiple

Elaine: times, but I've also seen it far enough ahead of time that I can

Elaine: actually make a plan to go.

Elaine: Because the worst feeling is, oh man, I already have other plans

Elaine: for that evening.

Elaine: What am I going to do?

Elaine: Am I going to say no to something I've already committed

Elaine: to and see this other thing?

Elaine: Do I just have to skip it?

Elaine: And so

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: that's something that I think just as a reminder to everyone,

Elaine: like the day before is not going to be enough, especially for

Elaine: those of us who plan ahead.

Elaine: Definitely give us a heads up.

Elaine: It's one of those things where the bands that I have seen most

Elaine: frequently and the ones that I make time to go see are the ones

Elaine: that, first of all, let me know that they're coming a month and

Elaine: a half ahead of time so I can actually buy a ticket and make

Elaine: sure that I make plans and make time and put it in my calendar.

Trist: Absolutely.

Elaine: And then to remind me the closer they get.

Elaine: And so, again, even a local gig where a friend of mine was

Elaine: playing, I couldn't make that evening, but he posted about it

Elaine: a couple of weeks ahead of time.

Elaine: I was super excited until I found out it was a date that I

Elaine: couldn't make it.

Elaine: And then, he posted about it again a week before, three days

Elaine: before, two days before, day of.

Elaine: I was so excited for him and I'm

Elaine: so glad that he was able to play

Elaine: it.

Elaine: And I was very aware of that gig

Elaine: because of the way that he

Elaine: promoted it.

Elaine: And I thought that was just so wise.

Elaine: I

Trist: Yep.

Elaine: was not offended at all.

Elaine: I was actually really excited to see that he was able to play,

Elaine: even though I couldn't make it.

Trist: Yep.

Elaine: All right.

Elaine: Well, any last thoughts here of

Elaine: anything that we were just

Elaine: talking about?

Trist: I think that's it.

Trist: There's another good one, Elaine.

Elaine: Awesome.

Elaine: So with that, we have a big request of all of you.

Elaine: If there is an episode that you really liked, please do share it

Elaine: with a friend.

Elaine: We are trying to grow the number of people who get to experience

Elaine: our podcast and you are the people to help us to do it.

Elaine: You already love us.

Elaine: You already love music.

Elaine: And we know that you know people who love music as well.

Elaine: So please do share an episode.

Trist: Yeah. Whether that's a song that

Trist: you never had heard before that

Trist: you really liked and want to

Trist: want to share that song with

Trist: somebody.

Trist: Or maybe we've covered a song

Trist: that is a favorite of a friend

Trist: and you can pass that along as

Trist: well.

Trist: Spread the word.

Elaine: Awesome.

Elaine: Don't forget to like the podcast, share the podcast,

Elaine: subscribe to the podcast.

Elaine: All

Trist: Yeah.

Elaine: of this helps us and helps other people find us.

Elaine: So thank you so much for your support.

Elaine: We love you all.

Trist: Thank you.

Elaine: See you next week.

Elaine: Oh, that's not the timer.

Trist: I was like, oh, I love that!

Trist: Just do it one of the times.

Elaine: I've heard it

Trist: Oh,

Elaine: through the

Trist: yeah.

Elaine: speakers

Trist: See?

Elaine: of a Cadillac.

Elaine: I've heard it through the speakers of a Dodge.

Elaine: I've heard it through the speakers of how many minivans.

Elaine: I've heard it like a VW bus.

Trist: Right.

Elaine: I've heard it through the

Elaine: speakers of like my dad's Hi-Fi

Elaine: stereo system.

Elaine: I've heard

Trist: Love

Elaine: it on

Trist: it.

Elaine: Laserdisc. You know, I've heard it on,

Trist: Love it.

Elaine: you know, how many different

Elaine: versions of karaoke have I heard

Elaine: this on?