In this episode of the Future Proof HR podcast, Jim Kanichirayil, our co-host and executive producer, sits down with Katie Fionova, Head of Human Resources at Four Inc., to talk about what it takes to lead through uncertainty when multiple major changes are happening at once. Katie shares how her organization has been navigating public sector volatility, a PE-backed transformation, enterprise systems work, new leadership hires, and broader scale-up efforts, all while supporting a distributed workforce.

Together, they unpack what HR leadership looks like when the pace of change is high and employee uncertainty is even higher. Katie explains why trust has to be built through listening, relationships, and credibility, not just top-down communication, and how proactive communication, manager enablement, and practical use of AI can help HR teams respond more effectively to growing demand and complexity.

The conversation also covers how to prioritize in fast-moving environments, how to balance strategic initiatives with day-to-day HR execution, and how to create space for employees to engage honestly during change. From culture committees and communication repositories to automation, risk-based prioritization, and leadership alignment, this episode offers a practical look at how HR can guide organizations through uncertainty without losing the human side of the work.

Topics Discussed

• How HR can lead through uncertainty during PE change, scaling, and enterprise transformation
• Why employees need information, transparency, and context during periods of rapid change
• How to use AI to anticipate employee questions and support proactive communication
• Why trust is built through relationships, credibility, and listening, not just formal presentations
• How project management, RACI planning, and communication systems support change in distributed organizations
• How automation creates bandwidth for strategic HR work
• Why risk and enterprise dependencies should shape prioritization decisions
• How culture committees can create a two-way communication channel during change
• Why listening without action can damage trust, and how leaders can set honest expectations
• What HR leaders should avoid when entering a new organization during a period of change

Additional Resources

• Cleary’s AI-powered HR Chatbot
• Future Proof HR Community
• Connect with Katie Fionova on LinkedIn

Note: This episode was recorded in 2025.

Trust is built on relationships.

2

Trust is not built by me walking

into a room and giving the grand

3

presentation about all of the

changes that are happening.

4

And is built on relationships and

me having an understanding of what's

5

important to different people across

the organization building credibility

6

it gives you the ability to talk about

changes in a way that is less scary

7

because it's coming from someone where

there is a level of baseline trust.

8

Speaker: When we think about pulling

off an organizational transformation,

9

generally that includes one

major initiative, or maybe two.

10

What if you're facing an environment

where there are multiple major

11

initiatives that you need to pull off

as part of this transformation and.

12

You have to deal with the fact

that you've been recently acquired

13

by a private equity company.

14

You've just made the task

a whole lot more difficult.

15

When you think about all the

moving pieces that are involved,

16

you have a scaling initiative.

17

You have an HRIS implementation,

You have the change management

18

associated with a private equity

acquisition, and you're dealing with

19

an organization that's committed to

growing is in a distributed environment.

20

Now you're starting to get a picture

of something that is very difficult

21

to pull off, What's the other

variable that you have to deal with?

22

You're the new person in HR leading

par major elements of this change.

23

So how do you tackle all of that

and still keep your wits about you?

24

That's the story that we're going

to cover in today's conversation

25

featuring Katie Fionova.

26

So Katie is a seasoned people and

culture leader with over a decade of

27

experience driving HR transformation

in high growth organizations.

28

She holds her SHRM certification and is

passive about creating cultures where

29

people can thrive and do their best work.

30

She's known for building scalable

human-centered programs that

31

enhance performance and employee

experience, and she specializes in

32

change management, organizational

development, and strategic HR leadership.

33

Katie is presented on leading

through change and building adaptable

34

people infrastructure at multiple

industry events, and currently

35

leads HR and training at Four Inc.

36

And she lives in Northern Virginia with

her husband, their son, and their dog.

37

Teddy.

38

It's always good for an HR chat and

we are pumped to have her on the show.

39

Jim: Katie, welcome to the show.

40

Katie Fionova: Thank you.

41

I'm happy to be here.

42

Jim: Yeah, it's gonna be a fun

conversation because you have 5

43

million things going on all at

once that we're gonna get into and

44

figure out how all of that works.

45

So let's, let's dive right in.

46

And I think the first order of business

is for you to lay out for our listeners,

47

the landscape of the organization that

you are in and all the different things

48

that you have going on all at once.

49

Katie Fionova: Absolutely You are right.

50

Busy is the name of the game here.

51

So we are a public sector IT provider

and as soon as I say just that little

52

bit, it should tell you something

about the kind of year that we've had.

53

has been a lot of uncertainty

in the public sector this

54

year, between initiatives like.

55

OneGov and DOGE.

56

And then even taking it a step

further, our specific organization has

57

recently undergone a really exciting

transformation to a PE backed structure.

58

in the background, we've got this

major shift as we're growing and

59

building our infrastructure and

continuing to scale the organization,

60

while meanwhile the macro has.

61

A lot of uncertainty and change

and take it a step further.

62

We've got some important

initiatives that we're working on

63

to facilitate that continued growth.

64

of them is implementing an

organization-wide ERP, and that

65

solution will help transform

the way that we do business.

66

And there are several other

systems that we're working on.

67

In parallel, we've also hired

some key new leaders this year.

68

when you look at the whole, holistic

view of the business, a lot going on.

69

There's a lot of change.

70

There are a lot of new things to

navigate, not only for the leaders

71

of the organization, but for

everyone across the entire org.

72

Jim: Yeah, that's, that's a lot of

different, plates that are spinning.

73

So let's, let's break these down

into, more bite-sized pieces.

74

So you're in an organization

that, Serves the public sector.

75

So there's a lot of issues there.

76

And then you just mentioned that

there was, a pe private equity

77

acquisition, that took place as well.

78

So when you look at both of those things

happening at the same time, what's

79

the, what was the employee sentiment

as all of these things were going on?

80

you're walking into a year with a lot

of uncertainty just from the government

81

side of it, and now you have private

equity that's getting involved too.

82

What's the temperature on the ground?

83

Katie Fionova: Yeah, you hit the nail on

the head with the word uncertainty, right?

84

So we're humans, and when

we feel uncertain, I think

85

a natural response is fear.

86

We don't know what's going to happen.

87

We don't have the answers, and

that can feel really uncomfortable.

88

And I think that's something

that a lot of our employees we're

89

navigating over this past year.

90

Jim: So you have a lot of uncertainty

given the government landscape,

91

the private equity landscape,

and then you threw in a scaling

92

initiative and an ERP implementation.

93

So things are getting more

and more complex and I think.

94

When you think about that number of

change or that volume of change in an

95

organization, it can cause a lot of people

to freeze up or really wonder what's the

96

priority that I need to be focusing on.

97

So what did you see from the ground

level, and what was the feedback with all

98

of these things happening all at once?

99

Katie Fionova: Yeah, great question.

100

you're right.

101

It can cause uncertainty, it can cause

freezing, and I think we saw a wide

102

variety of reactions depending on.

103

The individual's tenure with the

organization, depending on their

104

experience level, dealing with changes

like the ones that we're going through.

105

And, the prevailing sentiment

was just really an appetite for

106

additional information, right?

107

When we are in an environment as humans

where we feel like there is a lot of

108

uncertainty, there's a lot of doubt,

we're not sure what's coming next.

109

We want to understand what that landscape.

110

Looks like moving forward when we have

that information, we're able to make

111

adjustments to the way that we behave.

112

We're able to make adjustments to

the path forward and reframe things

113

in our minds to get comfortable.

114

And I think that's really what a lot

of our employees were looking for as

115

we've been navigating these changes.

116

certainly.

117

Lots of asks, lots of

questions bubbling up.

118

lots of, uncertainty and doubt

about what some of these changes

119

mean for the organization and for

the future of the organization.

120

and then also, some excitement

and hope mixed in there, right?

121

Because every organization has

opportunities to improve no matter

122

how fantastic that business is.

123

One upside of uncertainty

is positive change, right?

124

So there can be really great things

that come out of changes, like the ones

125

that we're going through right now.

126

Jim: No, that's a really good

breakdown of what's happening.

127

one of the things that came to mind

when you were describing this is you

128

mentioned that there's a lot of questions

and a lot of asks that can often turn,

129

the HR function into firefighting or a

revolving door in terms of the amount

130

of, of inquiries that are coming.

131

So how did you manage the increase

in volume of all of those questions?

132

What was in place to help you actually

triage these things effectively?

133

Katie Fionova: Great question.

134

I think the most important thing you can

do as a leader in the organization when

135

you know that there's an environment

like this one that we're going

136

through, where there is a rapid pace

of change, rapid breadth of change.

137

And just a lot happening in general

is to try to take a proactive approach

138

where you can, So what does that look

like for me as an HR leader, it looks

139

like considering what changes I know

are coming down the pipeline, thinking

140

about what the FAQs are that my

employee population is likely to have.

141

Arming my managers with tools

to have those conversations

142

and field those questions.

143

And then leveraging my leaders throughout

the organization as first line response

144

to some of those questions that I

know they're gonna get frequently.

145

and one of the, one of the great tools

that we can use for this is ai, Chat.

146

GPT is a great tool if

you pop in there, Hey.

147

These are some of the changes that

we're going through in the organization.

148

Here are some of the things

that we're talking about.

149

Here are some of the paths forward.

150

We're thinking about what

questions are my employees going

151

to have about this change chat.

152

GPT can be a tool that you leverage in

order to try to be more proactive about

153

the communication to the organization.

154

Jim: So I like what you described

where you're leveraging AI to do it.

155

Think one of the gaps that I'd be curious

about is usually when you use GPT or any

156

of the other platforms to, to deal with

policy level comms or enterprise level

157

comms, sometimes it's gonna hallucinate

and other times it's not gonna know

158

exactly what, what the right answer is.

159

Given the specific context

of your environment, did you

160

encounter those challenges, and

if so, how did you solve it?

161

Katie Fionova: Yes, of course.

162

it's a tool, right?

163

It's not a magic bullet, and I think

everybody who is navigating this evolving

164

landscape with AI and leveraging those

tools regularly knows that, right?

165

And that's something that always

has to be top of mind when you are

166

leveraging ai, is that it's a tool.

167

It's a tool in your tool belt.

168

It's not always going to be.

169

The right answer.

170

And even when it's a part of the

right answer, it doesn't mean that

171

it's the complete answer, right?

172

You can't do an entire project

with just a hammer, even if you

173

need the hammer at some point.

174

and in this case, that held true.

175

So there were some, great insights that

it was able to provide some questions

176

that weren't at the top of my mind.

177

Certainly.

178

but that I could see being reasonable

questions that our employees

179

might have about these changes.

180

but there are also things that it's

thrown at me that I know enough to

181

be able to draw in my own experience

and say, Hey, you know what?

182

That's not a question that we're

really gonna address right now,

183

where that's not relevant given

the context of my organization.

184

So it's really about drawing from

your own knowledge and experiences

185

and using your human touch to make

sure that the outputs from AI are.

186

Viable for your organization and

for the work that you're doing.

187

Jim: That makes sense.

188

So if, As you're going through this

and as we're talking, I feel like the

189

ShamWow guy where I'm about to say,

but wait, there's more, because you've

190

already described a level of complexity

that exists, but there's a couple other

191

things that, that you're focused on too.

192

So you're in scale up

mode as an organization.

193

You're in a distributed environment.

194

But wait, there's more.

195

You're also relatively new to the

organization and you're having to like.

196

Be part of the team that shepherds

all of these initiatives.

197

How did that impact your learning curve as

being the new person in the organization?

198

Because you have all of this change

and an employee population that doesn't

199

know you as a person, so there's a trust

issue that needs to be navigated as well.

200

How did you tackle that?

201

Katie Fionova: Yeah,

you're absolutely right.

202

Sham.

203

Wow is the right description.

204

I am relatively new to the

organization, so I've been with the

205

business for about six months and.

206

Always, when you are in a leadership

position, and especially when you're in

207

hr, it's incredibly important to do the

work, to listen and build relationships.

208

That's the foundation of

all of the work that we do.

209

You need to have a

working understanding of.

210

The business that you're supporting.

211

So coming into this organization

at this time of profound change, it

212

was incredibly important for me to

do that and to start by listening.

213

what does that look like in practice?

214

That looks like me.

215

the initiative to reach out to

leaders across different parts of

216

the business and have meaningful

conversations about what's going on

217

in their part of the organization.

218

What are the problems that

they're encountering right now?

219

What does their roadmap look like?

220

Not only over the rest of 2025, but

also over the next year and over

221

the next three years, understanding

what some of the priorities are.

222

That are driving their decision making

and therefore what things are top

223

of mind for the employee population.

224

And that part of the business can

really help inform the way that

225

we approach communication about

some of these enterprise wide

226

initiatives that are going on.

227

and then the second piece of

that puzzle that I mentioned

228

is the relationships, right?

229

So not only does learning about different

parts of the business and having

230

these conversations with the leaders

provide a baseline relationship, right?

231

And an opportunity for me to

get to know them a little bit.

232

but you take it a step further, right?

233

Because trust is built on relationships.

234

Trust is not built by me walking

into a room and giving the grand

235

presentation about all of the

changes that are happening.

236

And is built on relationships and

me having an understanding of what's

237

important to different people across

the organization building credibility

238

it gives you the ability to talk about

changes in a way that is less scary

239

because it's coming from someone where

there is a level of baseline trust.

240

Jim: So I like, I like your

emphasis on building trust.

241

I think one of the things that I kinda

raised an eyebrow about was, makes sense

242

to look at the 12 month roadmap and.

243

I would say it would make sense

to look at the 24 month roadmap.

244

But you mentioned a three year roadmap

in an organization that has this many

245

initiatives, doesn't that create a level

of risk to be looking that far out?

246

Katie Fionova: I think it would create a

level of risk not to be looking far out.

247

So in an organization, any organization.

248

it's the responsibility of the leadership

team to consider what the long-term plan

249

is for the business and ensure that we

are not caught flat-footed by any changes

250

that are happening in the industry or

any, plans to grow the business if we

251

want to reach a certain growth milestone

three years from now, five years from now.

252

There are actions that

have to happen today.

253

There are actions that have

to happen tomorrow, like

254

stepping stones along the way.

255

So certainly I agree with you that the

majority of the oxygen today, at most

256

levels of the organization is being

taken up by change initiatives, and

257

work to help scale the organization

over the next 12 to 24 months.

258

But I also think it's important to

keep in mind what's the end goal.

259

Where are we headed?

260

And make sure that as an HR leader

supporting the business, I also

261

understand what that vision looks like,

so that I'm taking the right steps

262

to help guide our leaders and support

the organization towards those goals.

263

Jim: That makes sense.

264

The other thing that I'm thinking

about is when you have roughly a

265

hundred percent organization spread

across a number of states, you have

266

all of these initiatives going on.

267

Building alignment across

all of these different

268

communication plans can be tricky.

269

And then when you take those communication

plans and put it into a project

270

plan, that's gonna be tricky as well.

271

How did you navigate both of

those things so that you have

272

as few roadblocks as possible?

273

Katie Fionova: Yeah, good question.

274

organization is your friend.

275

of all, you mentioned, communication

plans and project plans, and

276

I have a one word answer.

277

Yes, definitely leveraging, tools to

make sure that you're staying organized.

278

All stakeholders are informed.

279

You got your RACI matrix going, I think

organization and solid project management

280

is incredibly important when you are in

a landscape like this one where you're

281

navigating a number of simultaneous

changes and far reaching changes, right?

282

And especially when you are

in a distributed workforce.

283

Communication is the cornerstone of

change management when you are in

284

one location as a workforce, and it

becomes even more important if that's

285

possible with a distributed workforce.

286

So I think, making sure that as you're

building plans, you are making sure that

287

you're consulting that raci and you've

got the right people involved, leveraging

288

those relationships that you've built.

289

Leveraging AI to say, what

am I not thinking about?

290

And not operating in a vacuum, right?

291

But understanding different perspectives

so that your plan is as comprehensive

292

as it can be moving forward.

293

And I'm also a big fan of creating

repositories for, messaging and tools

294

to help employees navigate change.

295

So that looks like short videos

or it looks like one-pagers or an

296

intranet site is probably gonna depend

on your organization and the type

297

of change that you're navigating.

298

But certainly having the live conversation

is important or the conversation

299

over a teams call or a Zoom call.

300

but equally important is allowing

people the opportunity to digest

301

messaging and then come back and

revisit it as they get comfortable

302

and work to move forward with whatever

change it is that you're implementing.

303

Jim: So a lot of the stuff that we've

been talking about so far, I think

304

skews more to the strategic side.

305

But the thing that it just popped

into my head is, you're talking about

306

the landscape of this organization

with this much change, with an

307

employee population that's spread

across, a number of different states,

308

you still have the blocking and

tackling of HR that needs to be done.

309

And I don't imagine you

having a massive HR team.

310

So how are you actually navigating

the actual execution side of all the

311

HR stuff within the context of all of

these different initiatives going on?

312

Katie Fionova: Yeah.

313

Magic.

314

No, I'm kidding.

315

again, I think organization is your friend

and automation is your friend, right?

316

to the degree that there are

processes that repeat, making

317

sure that you have those.

318

Streamlined and automated and

efficient, wherever possible.

319

It really saves time.

320

the 30 minutes here, 30 minutes there

adds up when you have repeatable

321

processes that are happening on

a daily, weekly, monthly basis.

322

so that's an area where I've really

invested a lot of time over the last.

323

Several months to make sure that we're

streamlining everywhere that we can,

324

think things like a PTO request process.

325

Things like, checking time sheets

before sending them to payroll.

326

things that you can automate and

streamline as much as possible, is

327

really helpful when it comes to finding

bandwidth for strategic conversations.

328

and the other thing I'd say

is, when there is change.

329

And when you are navigating this, be

afraid to use your partners across the

330

organization to align on priorities and

help get support where you need support

331

on, execution or process adherence, right?

332

So by again, starting with that foundation

listening and building relationships.

333

It allows you to have conversations

about the why on process, where process

334

adherence is an opportunity in a way

that resonates with the business leader.

335

then, it also allows you to

have the conversation about

336

organizational priorities.

337

And if there are things that maybe

are important but not urgent,

338

gives you some insight to be

able to prioritize accordingly.

339

Jim: So you said something that

caught my intention, which was

340

prioritization based on urgency.

341

Over importance.

342

and I'm paraphrasing there.

343

When you have this much stuff

going on, how do you keep from

344

thinking that everything is, is

urgent or everything is important?

345

Like how, what's the decision criteria

that you've built in to help you

346

triage these things appropriately.

347

Katie Fionova: Again, it's gonna depend

a little bit on your organization, right?

348

And what's, what industry you're operating

in, what states you're operating in,

349

what the, must do items are, right?

350

for me, when I'm thinking about a

decision framework for prioritizing

351

urgent and important items, I

always like to understand risk.

352

What is the real risk to the

organization if something happens

353

or if something doesn't happen?

354

And then what are the

organization's priorities?

355

What are things that are time bound that

are happening that are enterprise wide?

356

have to get addressed because

there are dependencies such as

357

an ERP implementation, right?

358

that is a collaborative project and there

are steps where if I don't take those

359

steps, I'm holding up the entire process.

360

and then on, on the risk mitigation

front, are there compliance items that

361

maybe have potential fines associated?

362

Is there something that, just needs to

be done because that's the law and we've

363

gotta make sure that we're following the

law and handling things, by the book.

364

So those are two important factors

that I'm always considering

365

when I'm making a decision about

prioritizing, items by urgency level.

366

Thomas Kunjappu: This has been

a fantastic conversation so far.

367

If you haven't already done so,

make sure to join our community.

368

We are building a network of the

most forward-thinking, HR and

369

people, operational professionals

who are defining the future.

370

I will personally be sharing

news and ideas around how we

371

can all thrive in the age of ai.

372

You can find it at go cleary.com/cleary

373

community.

374

Now back to the show.

375

Jim: Got it.

376

So as you're looking at all of this stuff

that's happening, there's a lot going on

377

and you're still early in the role and.

378

These different initiatives might

be at varying degrees of maturity.

379

What have you seen in terms of major

friction points that have popped up,

380

or bottlenecks that have popped up

and as they've popped up, what's been

381

their game plan to get over those?

382

Katie Fionova: I think, just

the pace of change itself has

383

been a major point of friction.

384

And it takes time to bring an employee

population along with some of these

385

types of major changes that are

happening within the organization.

386

And then you've got the macro backdrop

that I mentioned earlier with uncertainty

387

being created by external forces.

388

And so just the fact that there

has been this much change.

389

I think has heightened the need

for, communication and has led to us

390

taking perhaps, a longer, point of

view on timeframes for communicating

391

changes, and providing extra support

to our employees through the changes.

392

So just by way of example.

393

You were in an organization where

you were going to be implementing

394

an ERP, but otherwise there were no

real macro changes in the industry

395

and there were no changes of control

of the company that had happened

396

recently, and there were no leadership

changes and it were just this ERP.

397

Your communication would look a

lot different than it looks in

398

our organization where we have so

many changes happening at once.

399

I think there is greater degree

of patience and understanding and

400

repetition that is appropriate in

an organization that is experiencing

401

change the way that our organization

is experiencing that change.

402

I also think there's a level

of engagement with the employee

403

population that is appropriate and

necessary in this kind of environment.

404

And I'll give you an example

of what I'm talking about.

405

of the ways that I'm engaging with the

employee population through this change

406

is through a culture committee that we've

stood up over the last couple of months,

407

and that culture committee is a forum

discuss some of these changes that are

408

happening throughout the organization.

409

It's a forum for the employees to

raise ideas, to raise concerns.

410

it gives a window of insight

into what's happening out in

411

the broader employee population

that I might not have otherwise.

412

To your earlier point, there's

not a huge HR team supporting

413

this organization of a hundred.

414

So it's really helpful to

have a forum like this where.

415

You create a safe space for employees

to bubble up concerns that I might

416

not otherwise hear if I don't have the

time that week to, to walk the floor.

417

So it's a two-way channel really

for communication through change

418

that helps us take a more proactive

approach to change management.

419

Jim: So I think when I listen to

you describe a lot of what you're

420

doing, what I like the most about it

is that there seems to be a certain.

421

Emphasis on communication.

422

and also listening.

423

there's a flip side to that because one of

the critiques of a lot of HR initiatives

424

that involve listening is that, yeah,

we, we do a lot of listening, but it

425

doesn't really turn into action, which

can end up disengaging the workforce

426

that you're trying to keep dialed in.

427

So how have you been navigating the

flip side of that equation to make sure

428

that things that are bubbling up out of

this culture committee, and any other

429

listening exercise that you have in

place, is being translated into visible

430

action that meets the needs of the

employee population, where they are.

431

Katie Fionova: You're absolutely right.

432

Listening without action can

create a worse environment than

433

you had in the first place.

434

And that's something that I was

incredibly conscious of heading

435

into this period of change and

standing up this culture committee.

436

And.

437

I think it's important to recognize

the value of operating from a place

438

of transparency and being as authentic

in your leadership as you can be.

439

when you're having these conversations

in something like a culture committee.

440

People are adults in the room, right?

441

And so there is, I think a level

of transparency and authenticity

442

and communication that, people

can sometimes be scared to use.

443

And I think that's a mistake, right?

444

if I go into that room and I say, Hey,

give me all of your ideas, and I leave

445

it there, create an expectation of

action on every one of those ideas.

446

But if instead I go into the

room and say, Hey, listen.

447

We're going through a lot of change.

448

I wanna hear your ideas.

449

I can't promise that they're all

gonna be implemented, but if there's

450

something that makes sense for the

business, I can promise that we'll have

451

the conversation That sets up a whole

different expectation for the people

452

participating in that conversation.

453

And it's honest, it's transparent,

and it's authentic and.

454

What we've been able to do

is have some really difficult

455

conversations in that room.

456

There have been ideas that have

come up where I've said, listen

457

guys, I don't think this is the

right time for that conversation.

458

I appreciate you bringing it up.

459

I hear what you're saying.

460

I can't make a commitment right

now, I appreciate you sharing it.

461

What other ideas are in the room?

462

I hear other perspectives and it gives me

the opportunity then to say yes, right?

463

Because there are things that we can

say yes to, and there are conversations

464

that we can have within the leadership

team and changes that we can make.

465

and I think it's important as a

facilitator of a group like that to

466

also have a baseline understanding

going into those conversations of, Hey,

467

what are some wins that we anticipate

might come up that we can say yes to?

468

As you're starting the conversation

and building trust with the group, you

469

start with a more rigid agenda, where

you introduce topics of conversation,

470

where you know there's room for

wins, then as you build that trust

471

and you build the credibility, build

the relationships, build comfort

472

level with authenticity, right?

473

You're able to tackle more and more

difficult and challenging topics in a

474

way that feels real, in a way that is

not scary, in a way that does ultimately

475

build morale rather than undermining it.

476

Jim: Got it.

477

So when I think through this, I

talk to HR leaders all the time and

478

it's not surprising when there's

one or two, two major initiatives

479

going on, in your environment.

480

You have maybe three or four

that are formal initiatives, and

481

then you have your own dust level

initiative of building trust and

482

actually learning the organization

and building your knowledge base.

483

So there's, a long list of

major things that, that you

484

have to navigate all at once.

485

the thing that I'm wondering about

is that, at three or four I'd

486

probably be pretty overloaded,

with what you have on your plate.

487

How are you managing

that sense of overload?

488

Because when I think about biting

off more than you can chew, this

489

is a great example of what could be

biting off more than you can chew.

490

So tell us how you're actually managing

that process internally at the dust level.

491

Katie Fionova: Yeah, it's

a really good question.

492

I think in an environment like this, it

is easy to start feeling overwhelmed.

493

and that's where.

494

I wanna revisit one of our earlier

conversation points around prioritization.

495

that's where prioritization

come becomes so important.

496

We have, limited hours in the day

and we're all human and we are bound

497

by the limitations of our bodies.

498

And, that means that I need to make sure

that I am understanding with crystal

499

clarity what the priorities are in

terms of strategic initiatives, but

500

also that I am, staying disciplined

in the day-to-day and being, ruthless

501

about the way that I prioritize

things and make sure that we are.

502

Mitigating risk and moving forward

the strategic initiatives that are

503

gonna move the needle the most.

504

And, I'm a, I'm a parent, so

being present at home is also

505

incredibly important to me.

506

And I think.

507

Honestly, it's important for us to have

time to disengage and recharge in order

508

to keep up a busy pace during the workday.

509

So that's something that

I prioritize consciously.

510

making sure that every day I have a

block of uninterrupted time to spend

511

with my family, refill the tank, and be

able to come back the next day and be.

512

Really energized and really disciplined

and really focused in order to keep

513

making sure that I'm on top of things

and keeping all the balls in the air.

514

Jim: Keeping all the balls in the air is

a good way to describe what you're doing.

515

when I think about.

516

All of this different stuff

that you have going on.

517

I think one of the, one of the

exercises that you go through with

518

any change initiatives is you list

out all the things that you know, so

519

those are your known knowns, and then

all the things that you don't know.

520

So those are your known unknowns.

521

And then there's another component

which are your unknown unknowns.

522

And when it's hard enough to deal

with one initiative, when you

523

multiply that across several.

524

It's difficult to get line of

sight just into all the known

525

unknowns that you have to deal with.

526

So what was the exercise that you

went through to surface all of the

527

different blind spots that might have

existed with each of these initiatives?

528

How did you actually surface those

to the level so you're operating as

529

clearly as possible as you move forward?

530

Katie Fionova: Yep.

531

So many brains are better than one.

532

And I'm right back.

533

I feel like I, I'm harping on

this, but it is so important.

534

I'm right back to communication.

535

so what that looks like for us in this

organization is, communicating and

536

drawing on the experiences of all of

the different stakeholders in the room.

537

I might not have handled.

538

Change a, but that doesn't mean that

our organization lacks people who

539

have handled change a right We're

able to have the conversation and

540

maybe have a greater awareness of what

those potential blind spots might be.

541

Navigate the known unknowns and come

up with a proactive plan to address

542

things as we get more clarity.

543

and again, I'm gonna point back

also to the wonderful AI tools that

544

we have today, and even external

resources like HRCI or SHRM for the

545

HR aspect of change management, right?

546

I think the more information

that you have, the more brains,

547

I'm gonna quote it right?

548

Brains that you source, the easier it is

to take an informed approach to managing

549

through changes and unknowns in projects.

550

Jim: I'll be curious to see what

this looks like a year down the

551

road and two years down the road,

especially given all the different

552

things that you have in place.

553

But I want you to give us a snapshot.

554

Of this point in time, you look at all of

these different initiatives that you have

555

going on and you're navigating your own

onboarding process and getting, acclimated

556

to the culture in the organization.

557

When you look at driving change across

so many of these levels and you're

558

advising somebody else that's trying

to do the same thing, what are the

559

key things that they need to have in

mind to pull this off successfully?

560

Katie Fionova: Absolutely.

561

I think if I were gonna bottom

line things, it comes down to

562

building relationships, and communicating.

563

If you have to make a decision

about how to prioritize your time.

564

You are going to be best served by having

a solid foundational understanding of

565

the business in which you're operating,

having relationships with key stakeholders

566

across the business that you can draw on

as you think through prioritization of

567

different initiatives and how to frame

change management to the organization.

568

So those are really the three key

things that I would focus my time on.

569

And then I would've advised others

to prioritize as they're navigating

570

through a similar situation.

571

Jim: So these are the

things that you should do.

572

What's the one thing that you

need to watch out for that can

573

often get you into trouble?

574

Katie Fionova: Great question and I will

answer this from personal experience.

575

don't charge in too quickly.

576

Thinking that you have the answers.

577

When there's an organization that

is going through a lot of change,

578

You're new to that organization,

are things you don't know, and there

579

may be reasons why certain decisions

are being made, reasons why certain

580

processes are in place, reasons why.

581

reasons why.

582

and this is why I put as the

foundational first step towards success.

583

If you charge in.

584

When you're new to an organization and

you're trying to not only establish your

585

identity as an HR leader, but also drive

forward progress on initiatives and

586

change management, you are going to fail.

587

If you don't take the time to listen

and you just charge forward and try

588

to implement change, y you are gonna

be successful when you're building.

589

Retake you are going to be successful

when you are viewed as a partner to the

590

business and the way that you are viewed

to a partner as the business is not by

591

coming in like a bull in a China shop and

trying to prove yourself by implementing

592

X changes in X number of days.

593

It's by making sure that those changes

you put forward are the right solution

594

for the business and informed by

your understanding of the business.

595

Jim: That's really good advice and

I think if I'm TL;DR-ing it, it's

596

don't be in a rush to make an impact.

597

I immediately, within your first 90

days, you should actually be looking

598

at auditing and doing a proper intake

so you understand the lay of the land.

599

I might have taken liberties with

that, but that's how I TL;DR it.

600

Great stuff.

601

Katie, if people want to get in

touch with you, what's the best

602

way for them to connect with you?

603

Katie Fionova: You can find me

on LinkedIn as Katie Fionova.

604

My last name is spelled F-I-O-N-O-V-A.

605

I'd be happy to chat with

you if I can be of help.

606

Jim: Awesome stuff.

607

So we'll include that in the show notes.

608

Great conversation and I think given

the scope of things that you have

609

going on, we could probably have talked

about this for a couple of hours,

610

but, we all have like regular jobs

to do so that's not exactly feasible.

611

But when I think about all the things that

we talked about, and I'm building sort

612

of a paint by numbers way of doing this

successfully, there's six things that come

613

to mind in terms of how you sequence this.

614

And number one is being organized about

how you're actually laying out all the

615

different things that you have going on.

616

and then the second part that was a

big chunk of what we talked about was

617

having a defined communication plan, to

make sure that you are keeping the lines

618

of communication open both directions,

from the employee landscape as well

619

as from the executive level down.

620

The third thing, that people need to be.

621

ruthless about is prioritizing,

based on what is most critical,

622

in terms of execution.

623

So that's important as well.

624

But there's a couple of other,

things that I think is important.

625

You need to look at opportunities

for automation and what stood

626

out about what you mentioned.

627

There was identifying key areas that

are repeated and seeing if you could

628

offload and automate those things.

629

And then the last couple of things

in order, in terms of pulling

630

this off successfully is being

transparent and taking action.

631

So when you look at the.

632

It's not even a framework, it's

just a paint by numbers version

633

of doing this organization.

634

Communication, prioritization,

automation, transparency, and action.

635

now that doesn't mean that it's all

gonna be sunshine and roses because

636

stuff is gonna pop up, but at least if

you're tight on those things, it should

637

increase your chances for success.

638

So I appreciate you sharing.

639

Your experiences so far with us, on how

you're navigating all these changes.

640

For those of you who have been

listening to this conversation,

641

we appreciate you hanging out.

642

Make sure you leave us a review

on your favorite podcast player.

643

So make sure to tune in next time

where we'll have another HR leader

644

hanging out with us and sharing their

insights on how to future-proof HR.