Shownotes
"Leveraging AI for a Better World": "This is a, area of technology that everyone is is looking at and saying, how can we make the world better, and how can we work together to make the world better in a reliable way?" - Rita Reynolds
In this episode of "Talk Of The County," host Kenneth Wilson engages in a thought-provoking discussion with Rita Reynolds, the Chief Information Officer for the National Association of Counties (NACo). They talk about a myriad of topics ranging from cybersecurity and digital equity to the transformative role of artificial intelligence (AI). Throughout the conversation, Rita offers valuable insights drawn from her 36 years of experience working with county IT leaders and her deep commitment to advancing technology at the county level.
Top Takeaways
- Verifying Suspicious Emails: Rita Reynolds emphasizes the importance of verifying suspicious emails through official alert systems to prevent malware infiltration and protect county networks.
- Digital Equity and Broadband Access: Digital equity is a focal point for NACo, aiming to ensure universal broadband access across all counties, viewed as an essential utility for daily life similar to water.
- Collaboration for Accurate Data: Counties play a crucial role in working with ISPs to ensure accurate data reporting, effective use of grants, and successful federal initiatives like the BEED grant to enhance high-speed internet access in underserved areas.
- Cybersecurity Measures: Cybersecurity remains a top concern for county CIOs, with dual-factor authentication and the use of complex passwords being highlighted as critical preventive measures against cyber threats.
- Training and Education: Employee training in cybersecurity, including phishing awareness and practical exercises like simulated phishing emails, is vital for enhancing security within county systems.
- AI in Everyday Life: AI's presence in everyday life through tools like Siri has evolved to include more sophisticated applications such as generative AI, which NACo is exploring through its dedicated committee focusing on policy, ethics, and workforce impact.
- AI and Human Oversight: AI’s role in decision-making, especially in policy and eligibility for benefits, necessitates human oversight to ensure ethical considerations and prevent biases in data and outcomes.
- Report on AI’s Potential and Challenges: NACo’s new report discusses AI's benefits, such as improved productivity and service delivery, as well as challenges in governance, security, privacy, and the need for guiding principles for local government use.
- Creative Cybersecurity Workshops: Rita mentions a creative workshop on cyber best practices, styled after "Shark Tank," held during "shark week" to engage participants innovatively and practically in cybersecurity awareness.
- AI in Talent Acquisition: Concerns about the authenticity of candidate assessments arise when AI tools are used in HR functions, highlighting the need for a balanced approach between technology and human judgment in the hiring process.
Key Moments
00:00 Career focused on county development and IT.
06:23 Efforts to address bias in book creation.
09:21 Dilemma: Identical application answers and fairness.
12:02 Generative tools modify email tone effectively.
14:51 Enhances productivity, equity, but governance challenging.
18:20 Flexibly use toolkit; counties vary widely.
22:11 Federal grants boost broadband access in communities.
27:27 Advocacy continues for internet access funding partnerships.
31:11 Cyber attacks are inevitable, demanding constant vigilance.
34:33 Interviews reveal weak password security vulnerabilities.
35:32 Educating staff on cybersecurity through training tools.
talkofthecounty@franklincountyohio.gov
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Transcripts
Alright. Good afternoon. This is edition 2 of Talk of the County live from the National Association of Counties Annual Conference in Hillsborough County, Florida. I am here, to talk information technology, with Rita Reynolds, the chief information officer for NACo. As an introduction, Miss Reynolds, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and how, you landed in this role?
Rita Reynolds [:That is a great question. First of all, thank you so much for having me. And I have to say, in all of my work for the past 36 years, it's all been focused on counties. I started out, this will be the short version for you, but I started out in Pennsylvania as a consultant working with children youth counties and and doing, database and computer design for them, and did that for 11 years. I then went to work for the state association in Pennsylvania and was there for 20 years, and we developed quite a few programs on behalf of counties and developed a county IT network within Pennsylvania. The throughout those years, I started coming to NACo and was very familiar with the committees, was on a number of the committees, and did a lot of, support to the NACo CIO then to help build some of the content. And really, it was just kinda one of those, lifetime, opportunities where I became aware of the position that was open, and I I went online. I said, you know what? I'm just gonna send this to some of my CIO friends in Pennsylvania.
Rita Reynolds [:Started reading it, and then my husband said, that's you. You need to apply. And so the short story from there is I applied and it was really, to the NACo staff that were were reviewing, they were like, this is the right person for this job. And so I've been there for 5 years, about a week
Kenneth Wilson [:ago. One of NACo's greatest strengths is its task forces that have been formed over the years. I can think of the work that has been done in a sustainable housing, in a mental health, county futures. I mean, that's just a wealth of data and and research. And now, NACo has put together some excellent work on AI and put together a team of experts, to discuss artificial intelligence, something that was a part of our lives via Siri and other forms, and we really didn't think about it.
Rita Reynolds [:That's right.
Kenneth Wilson [:Now everyone thinks of AI as this new creature. Can you talk a little bit about, the recent report that came out, from this group of professionals, representing NACo, on the AI Exploratory Committee?
Rita Reynolds [:Absolutely. And, if I had about 3 hours, we could go into in-depth for sure, but I won't do that today. I have to say that it's been about a year, a little over a year, that, it came to, fruition the formation of the AI Exploratory Committee under NACo, and it consists of 16 county elected officials along with a couple, chief information officers. And it really was a a pivotal moment in our history, and I've said this to a number of our, county IT leaders and to others. This is definitely the most, opportunistic time for technology over the course of my career, which goes back into early 19 eighties. And other than, of course, the, evolution of the Internet, this definitely is at the top of the list. What is interesting, as you noted, AI, artificial intelligence, has been around for a very long time. And that, as we started meeting with the the exploratory committee, everyone was like, oh, so what part is new? And that's the the generative part.
Rita Reynolds [:The older part, as we call it, the predictive part is already there in the the
Kenneth Wilson [:Yeah. We bled the thing out of the bag. Yeah.
Rita Reynolds [:And now We
Kenneth Wilson [:bled the thing out of the bag. Yeah. That thing being AI. I think that's why everyone's talking about it now.
Rita Reynolds [:Oh, absolutely. And it's the the genie is out of the bottle, and we're not going back. It is so, accessible now to anyone. It's not just IT developers or those that have the expertise in data analytics. It is virtually anyone can benefit from artificial intelligence.
Kenneth Wilson [:Makes life better. I think I think an appliance, corporate company said that once. It it makes it makes life better, and that's really the way I think of AI. But AI has to be used responsibly.
Rita Reynolds [:Yes. And that was the formation then under the exploratory committee, the work groups. So we focused on a work group with policy, we focused on a work group around ethics, we focused on a work group with, how is this going to affect the workforce because there are tremendous impacts there. And then the final one was around applications themselves. But the the challenge and what we're seeing is the piece with the ethics part. And there is so much to be learned and understood, but we're already seeing that there is bias in the data. The data may not be accurate. We all talk about going to the Internet and doing a search.
Kenneth Wilson [:Right.
Rita Reynolds [:And when you look at the source of what you're getting, you're like, that can't be right. So there there definitely is a lot of challenges there.
Kenneth Wilson [:We saw some of the biases play out in, the book that NACo, published that was put together, using artificial intelligence, and targeted at children. They explained county governance.
Rita Reynolds [:Mhmm.
Kenneth Wilson [:And AI has biases that that came out that I discussed with some of your folks.
Rita Reynolds [:We we actually had a lot of conversation around, the efforts, of course, that the executive director, Matt Chase, put into, putting the book together and seeing, first of all, when you look at some of the images, like, he had to really work hard to make sure all the digits on the hands were there, first of all, and then it's the diversity. And a number of us were able to review it before it was finalized, and that was part of our conversation. You can you can see the bias. And so we worked he worked really hard along with a number of others to to address as much as possible. It will get better over time, I think. And when I say it, it's the how how can we address the bias and be the more aware we are of it, then it's that human in the loop reviewing and where we go from there. So it there's still a lot to be learned.
Kenneth Wilson [:Yeah. You know, when when when we when we, give a command to a device and and and ask it to assist us, we ask ourselves questions. Does AI have empathy? Does, you know, does does AI have a conscience? Will AI try to give you guidance that will keep you safe, so to speak?
Rita Reynolds [:Mhmm. And I was doing some research a couple weeks ago. If you go out to YouTube and you put in a search for robots or something along those lines, it is extremely interesting what's coming back and what some of the other countries are doing. The empathy part, the robot is starting to learn based on interactions with humans. It is it's somewhat, scary at the same time, we see the opportunities.
Kenneth Wilson [:Yeah. You know, how many of us haven't been in a meeting where our phone has said, I didn't understand what you just said. You know, I it I mean, it's happened to all of us multiple times. You you think and you're like, there it goes. There it goes.
Rita Reynolds [:Well, think about early on with our cell phones and the voice to text. And I've talked to a lot of folks, oh, so and so was using this and they said this into the phone, but what it typed out was not what the person said. And so over the years, that has become much better, and more often than not, what you're saying is what's showing up on the text. And that's the same thing with where we're headed with artificial intelligence, generative AI. It will keep getting better.
Kenneth Wilson [:Yeah. Yeah. I can imagine being in being being in the interviews, you know, we that's a big part of what we do. And by integrating AI into your HR function Mhmm. You could be in an interview with someone and they was like, you barely made it here. You were the 5th candidate. And then you'll be like, everyone just like, what do I do? AI AI did it.
Rita Reynolds [:Well and interestingly, you bring that up from the HR perspective. We have the Negro Tech Exchange, where there's over 1100 county IT leaders that dialogue. And one of the questions that came up had to do with seeing results from the applications coming in for a position, and they were review reviewing them and there were 2 that had identical answers, and they figured out that these 2 individuals had used the same tool to answer the question. Now the follow-up to that is, how is that different than a staffing firm helping someone write their resume? And what do we do with that? Do we not interview the individual? So it it's puts you in a dilemma of how to to move
Kenneth Wilson [:forward in some cases. You know, many times in my office, I'm typing up an email and, the software that I use is will say, thanks. That sounded informative and assertive or that sounded friendly and compassionate. You know? And then you take it and you process it and you're like, is that really the tone that I want? Right. Or you push in.
Rita Reynolds [:Right. Well and what we're hearing from educational perspective and helping staff learn how to use the the different tools, what what you ask it with the prompt and how you ask the the question is important. And you can say, I wanna answer to this question, but do it very professionally Or word it very informally, and that's to your point about the email, how you want how you write and how you type. Those those prompts need to reflect that and eventually the tools are gonna understand your your the way in which you do the right because
Kenneth Wilson [:people see tone through communications. You know, you can tell when someone writes, a memorandum and some bad things have just happened that they wanna correct. Because that is best to take a step back and read it later so maybe you can dial it back some from where you first have it. But I'm just wondering about the future of AI. How many times in an office, whether in government or business, someone sent out a email that shouldn't have never been sent? It calls either all kinds of toxic discussions within the organization, or it broke up a professional relationship, just one email. And will AI get assertive enough to where it will say, don't do it?
Rita Reynolds [:It actually
Kenneth Wilson [:Don't push in.
Rita Reynolds [:Yeah. We're we're we're getting to that point. There are some of the tools now that will say, are you sure you want to send this? Is this what you want to say? And I've had conversations with several folks that have said, I'm getting emails from so and so, and I know good and well they use the generative tool. It's not their normal tone. So whether that's good or bad, the good part of it is if someone realizes sometimes my tone doesn't come across right, putting it into the tool, the question or the comment, reword this in a softer way or a a more communicative way helps them deliver their message in, in the in the email, for example. And so they can reword it, but you have it's how you use the tool.
Kenneth Wilson [:Yeah. And another area that I'm concerned about AI IN is AI making policy decisions or AI making decisions that impact a person receiving a benefit that they may desperately need. And it may not look take all of the facts in consideration. It may take a shortcut and make a and make a and make a policy decision. Because a a big part of what America's counties do pretty much you when you're seeing one county, you've seen one county. But one something that we do all do, is eligibility and determine eligibility for various, manual benefits.
Rita Reynolds [:Mhmm. And what we and I'm I'm holding here, of course, our new report that just came out. And while it gives some history, it gives some benefits and opportunities, it covers a number of recommendations. And the one, area where it has the recommendation of human in the loop, it is so important that through those type of of situations that are it's being used, there is a human reviewing. And, even on the court side, there's tools now that will collect all the information, put it in front of you, and based on your series of questions, say here's what we believe the answer is and what they're pulling from the the court documents itself. The human still has to be in the loop and has to do that review.
Kenneth Wilson [:Yeah. So let's, since you have that that nice, shiny, new, fresh report, and I said NACCO always puts together fantastic reports, let's talk about some of the the key findings. Because I say I know you said in the beginning, you didn't wanna be here 5 hours breaking it all down for me. Plus, I probably you would lose me if I wanna understand all those acronyms and such in here. But for the general listener of this podcast, highlight some of the key findings in this report. And then how do you plan to communicate those key things to members of NACo for their benefit?
Rita Reynolds [:That's an excellent question. I I turn to the page that we call the landscape analysis, and it's a very good summary of 2 pages of what are the benefits, what are the challenges, and what are the opportunities. And we like to start with the benefits, and that was the findings from the committee, and that we know this is gonna enhance productivity, and we can see that it will assist with improving service delivery to our residents in the county, and it also is going to make it easier for county staff to generate new ideas and develop new solutions much faster. And we we are seeing that already. And it will increase what we call equity and accessibility. It's not gonna solve the whole problem that we are all are facing, but it definitely is going to allow more residents regardless of the socioeconomic position to benefit from the different services and the different resources, through the use of AI and generative AI. With that comes the challenge, and the first challenge of course is the governance. Early on in the committee's, work, it was stated, you know, I told the county, elected officials talking about this, that we're not gonna use we're not gonna allow staff to use generative AI.
Rita Reynolds [:I said that didn't work, and the reality is that, you have staff within your departments already using. It may not be the county tool. It may be the personal tool on their personal device.
Kenneth Wilson [:Mhmm.
Rita Reynolds [:And so the challenge there is developing the appropriate policy and the governance of how you're going to use the generative tools, for example. Of course, security and privacy is always a concern and, knowing your data that you're working with, your information that you might be putting into these tools, you know, stay away from from private information is is part of goes under that policy. There are and I don't think that anyone has really landed on how to solve the copyright issue. I go back to the days when I was doing training on folks on how to use email and they would send the actual document off the Internet in the email and we're like, you're probably violating copyright somewhere. Instead of doing that, send the link. Like, we found ways to solve the problem, we're gonna have the same issue already here.
Kenneth Wilson [:Yep. Yep. Yep.
Rita Reynolds [:So and then accuracy of the data, and then of course the bias that we've already talked about. There's still a huge opportunity here to improve, as I said, social services, public safety, and security, thinking about, emergency management and being able to respond to whether it's hurricanes or or vehicle accidents. Artificial intelligence can be used to facilitate and and generative AI as well in collecting information from from those areas. So the other piece of it is we have seen such an improvement, of the collaboration between counties and cities, other local institutions, private partners, or private industry. This is a, area of technology that everyone is is looking at and saying, how can we make the world better, and how can we work together to make the world better in a reliable way? So that is covered in here, and then in the document. And then when you get into, there's recommendations in here. Prior to that, there are what we call guiding principles.
Kenneth Wilson [:Mhmm.
Rita Reynolds [:And it's back to your comment. You've seen one county, you've seen one county. There's 3,069 counties, so it's important that when using this toolkit to remember to be flexible. There are parts of it that will definitely apply and there's different levels that you can enter into with generative AI and and, of course, the use of artificial intelligence, and you may be at level 1. You may be at the low risk area, and then there may be other counties that are like, we're ready to tackle something in human services, and what do we need to be aware of? And that's what the recommendations in this document help guide.
Kenneth Wilson [:Yep. That's great. That's great. That's great. Yeah. When you've seen one county, you've seen one county. I say that all the time. And I'm a add to that.
Kenneth Wilson [:When you've seen one county, you've seen one county. But when you've seen Franklin County, you've seen the best county. So all the listeners that call Franklin County home, we are all in a great place. Even though I'm enjoying being on the road here, learning all the exciting things I'm learning at this conference, but Franklin County is home. Let's talk about digital equity. It's been a big issue for NACo. NACo has been a leader in in doing studies and in measuring even the speed of broadband in the different corners of the country, examining the 3,069 counties you referenced.
Rita Reynolds [:Absolutely. And that goes back quite a number of years. Well, let me start with first. Digital equity, It can be, defined in several ways. I mean, we first think about where are you located and do you have broadband access? And then there's the educational piece of it. What do our students, our young adults, and the those in school have access to in their schools? That's another way of looking at it. And, of course, the accessibility part. It costs it costs to have Internet, and if you want digital equity, you have to have access to the to the Internet.
Rita Reynolds [:So let me start with that first off. NACo, to that point a number of years ago, recognized that we're we're talking anecdotally. We know that there's challenges with, broadband Internet access, and we know that those numbers coming out of different national I don't wanna name anybody, but out of the national resources aren't accurate. So they developed their own tested app, and it's been fabulous because that data that's coming back, that we all are like, hey, I'm on, I 81 going through Virginia. No, I do not have access right here. Go off or I do, and I go off 2 miles and I don't.
Kenneth Wilson [:Right.
Rita Reynolds [:So we've been able to use Nico has been able to use the tested data to go back to those at the national level to say, we need to do more work here.
Kenneth Wilson [:Also, broadband in digital equity is a urban and a rural issue.
Rita Reynolds [:Yeah.
Kenneth Wilson [:And NACo was perfectly positioned to represent both constituencies through either the, rural action, caucus or the large urban county caucus. It been and pretty much gonna cover all the counties in between, because it's really a a issue, impacting, both urban and rural areas. And I argue, strongly, and we learned during the pandemic, that access to fast, reliable broadband is a utility. It's a it should be considered a public utility. It should be like water running out of your faucet That's as far as how essential it is.
Rita Reynolds [:Yep. Absolutely. And, you know, the federal government has recognized that they, there have been recent grants. There's what's called the BEED grant, the Broadband Equity Access and Deployment grant, $42,000,000. And so the the piece there in terms of getting high speed Internet access to unserved and underserved, this is hopefully and will be addressing that and can address it. The that I'm gonna use the word issue, but where counties need to play a strong role is working closely with the Internet service providers and sharing at all. Here's what we're seeing. And, also, there is a process at the state level now to challenge what some of the the statistics and results are that are coming back to say, here's what we are seeing, and this gets into using, GIS and some of the other tools within the county.
Rita Reynolds [:And while you're reporting that this particular segment has access, we're showing you that only one person does, and here's why. And so very important for the counties to be involved in working with the state and with the federal government, giving information back of this is what our data is showing us, and being involved as those bead funds, the the grant funds I mentioned, as they're being deployed and and, given out to the counties or to the, ISVs across the United States. The other thing I will say, and this is close to my heart just watching as you said, it's not just a rural and an urban problem. It's the there's the access issue, of course, but there's the affordability. And, you know, both rural and urban have both of those issues.
Kenneth Wilson [:Yes.
Rita Reynolds [:You can be in, you know, in Columbus, Ohio and maybe not have access to the Internet because of where you live. And so keeping that in mind and working with the the, libraries in the area, those type of, institutions to help bring broadband or bring Internet access is really important.
Kenneth Wilson [:We have in Franklin County, we have a digital equity alliance that is locked in on just what you said. And the city of Columbus and Franklin County are are making an investment that will end up being a minimum of $20,000,000 plus to close that gap. Yeah. Because it it impacts the social determinants of health. Mhmm. It impacts educational access. Because if you got fast broadband, there's no boundaries on where you can attend school.
Rita Reynolds [:That's right.
Kenneth Wilson [:That's right. Because most universities got, a robust online programs now.
Rita Reynolds [:And think about this too. It's well, the pandemic proved even more so the how difficult this was. Schools went to online learning, and now there are still many that offer, as you said, the online programs. Those programs, at least at the college level, are less expensive than being on campus. So now you've narrowed the gap of who can actually attend and complete course material.
Kenneth Wilson [:Mhmm. So
Rita Reynolds [:yep, definitely, we know with artificial intelligence and generative AI that the computing power needed is strong. We know that universities are starting to teach and train on that because that's where our workforce that's coming into, local government is gonna need to be skilled and have that tool under their belt back to having access. If I don't have Internet access, how am I gonna learn about artificial intelligence and content, for,
Kenneth Wilson [:out there in content, for the mental health treatment, and we talked on education, how just simple things like how to how to eat healthy. Mhmm. And if you don't have broadband access, you can't access this whole world of of of content that's out there.
Rita Reynolds [:Well, think about telehealth and think about the cost of going into the doctor's office, paying for that doctor visit as opposed to doing a telehealth visit. And definitely if sometimes in many cases, it could be no cost or a very low cost, and you have, I hate to you have the different levels of availability of money to pay for those expenses. So telehealth can be much more cost effective and Yeah. More timely as well, but you need the you need the access.
Kenneth Wilson [:Do you feel, do you feel like, with the expiration of policies like the affordable, connectivity program, will we see affordable and reliable, Internet, access, be provided to our residents across the country?
Rita Reynolds [:Boy, that is a hard question to answer. We've seen some some expiration of some funding, and we know that that is making it harder for individuals to to have Internet access. And so NAGO is continuing to, from our government affairs side, continuing to advocate for that, and for funding along the way. And that's where the strong partnerships With the providers is really important. I think we will see, most providers not that they haven't stepped up, but I think we'll see more stepping up, to bring this to fruition so that but, you know, my dream is that everyone will have access. Now whether that will happen or not, in my lifetime, I don't know. But it is the goal for sure.
Kenneth Wilson [:Everybody gotta be in the fight together, for, broadband access for all. There should be, universal access in my opinion. And it should be, a cost should not be a barrier for for any individual in, a place like the United States of America. Just given the the sheer resources that we have.
Rita Reynolds [:Oh, absolutely.
Kenneth Wilson [:We have some of the we we have some of the largest in, most prosperous information technology companies in the world. Mhmm. And if it's nothing but an act of kindness and charity, we ought to be able to close the digital divide that we've been talking about. It seems like we've been talking about it and I can have this wrong. It seems like we've been talking about the digital divide at least 20 years.
Rita Reynolds [:It's escalated. The conversation has escalated definitely in the past 10 years because our technology has become better at showing what are the issues and then what are our solutions now because technology is improving and getting better. So I do think we will get there. It is just going to take more time.
Kenneth Wilson [:It's just been, you know, you look back in the early nineties, dial up, was was a luxury. You know, people being able to to to to be on the Internet at very slow speeds. I remember downloading content and you could go and, take a nap and still wait no way to download.
Rita Reynolds [:Well, and if you're out in the country, that's still there, unfortunately, depending on what access you have. And, you know, when we look at the the satellite opportunities now that are there that weren't there even 5 years ago, that's helping to bridge that gap. So I know we're gonna continue to watch and see how technology advances, the cost of it and how our providers allocate that cost, is yet to be determined whether that hopefully will not go up, stabilize, and eventually maybe will go down.
Kenneth Wilson [:We we see, in the news, you know, large systems going down impacting commerce. We've seen, governmental entities, taken offline due to ransomware attacks and such. Let's talk about the topic that keeps a number of CIOs up at night. And that is a cyber security strong enough to stand up against the constant threats out there.
Rita Reynolds [:It is a moving target. That is probably the the best way to explain, the cyber attacks. And you're right. When when we do our icebreakers and our round robin conversations with CIOs and say what keeps you up at night? Cyber is still the most frequent, answer that is given to that question. And what we are seeing, and I'm very pleased to see that the work Mako has done in providing resources and guidance, is we are seeing improvements in local government to put in defenses that help mitigate. I think, as we always say, it's not if you're gonna be attacked, it's when you're gonna be attacked. And whether it's an incident that you can contain or it becomes a breach, part of that depends on what the best practices you have in place. And so that's a, ongoing conversation.
Rita Reynolds [:There's different approaches, but there are some basics, and more and more counties are understanding what the basics are and are putting those basics in place. The easiest basic to share, of course, is passwords. And we've been talking about passwords for 20 plus years.
Kenneth Wilson [:Right.
Rita Reynolds [:And now it's you don't just need a password, you also need to get a code on your phone.
Kenneth Wilson [:Dual factor authentication is now the thing.
Rita Reynolds [:Yeah. And that is a a significant way in which to prevent the infection of the the viruses into your network, and the cloud solutions that many counties are using now. It's, the statistics are very high in terms of 80 to 90 percent prevention can occur by having that dual factor authentication in place. The other area that we have
Kenneth Wilson [:Users don't like dual factor authentication at all. Users don't like it at all across the board. You know, folks like us that are involved in, governmental entities and and are afraid of, of an attack, we can tolerate the inconvenience. But it isn't universally popular yet, dual factor authentication. Many people had a option to, like, skip, you know, like, when you got they got that ring doorbell camera system or whatever and it says, not now, the elect program. Not now. We won't do that now.
Rita Reynolds [:I love the camera now. I love the the ring camera and the safety it can bring. As you said, it introduces a whole another aspect in terms of protection even from a personal level, the password that maybe you use to to manage that device. So It's
Kenneth Wilson [:it's not it is some people can't create a complex enough password to say they like because they've been used to putting on a sticky note. They they're they're the dog's name. I've heard stories of people password being password when they call. What's your password?
Rita Reynolds [:Password 123.
Kenneth Wilson [:Oh, and, I mean, I I was I mean, it was like this, study that was done, and they were going around surveying people in the in the people were making their passwords so simple that anybody could guess it. You could that if you knew if you looked them up on Facebook and looked up each one of their their kids, you could just get pretty much figure out how to how to access stuff. Did you see
Rita Reynolds [:the one late night special where they interviewed a lot of folks? I won't say the name of it, but they interviewed whole different group of individuals and that was the question, what's your password? And well, I'm not gonna tell you that and then they ask them other questions and, oh, I just told you my password. Because like you said, dog's name, cat's name, family members, birth dates. So that's why the total authentication is really important. Getting that pin on your phone really helps cut down on the, attacks that are going to get through.
Kenneth Wilson [:And people get you ask them why they do it. They would like, because I can't remember all of that. I write it down on paper, then I can't find a piece of paper I wrote it on. Or and I'm tired of that to hit forgot password and had to go through all the steps involved with that. I forgot my password in order to restore. Let's talk about that takes me to a few final and we're we're wrapping up here. Let's talk about the importance of training in the workplace.
Rita Reynolds [:I'm glad you bring that up. And specifically, when it relates to the cyber security, the educating your staff in the county and any other local government is so important. There are tools out there for sure that will do pretend emails that will come into your email system and you may click on it and all of a sudden it looks like you had some malware put on your computer. Well, it was a pretend email. Now you have to take some training. So there are online tutorials to help improve the cyber security and help educate individuals on look at what's in the email. Look at where it's coming from and look at at where it's going. The other piece of it is the training can be from a what we call table tops.
Rita Reynolds [:You do emergency management, you do table tops. Same thing with cyber security. Mako partners with Professional Development Academy. We do quarterly table tops in a virtual environment. And we have to date, done about 16 of those over the past 4 years. And over 2,000 county individuals have been part of that. So those are really important ways to improve the education of your department directors, your elected officials, as well as your your line staff as we call it.
Kenneth Wilson [:Okay. Yeah. I mean, it's it's certain things that, you know, the old listeners podcast. It's not likely that you're gonna be offered 4 days 3 nights anywhere just by hitting the link. Not likely. It's gonna cause you some kind of pain, or it's just a random free box of Krispy Kreme Donuts. Don't go for it. Or it's Particularly in the workplace.
Rita Reynolds [:Or it could be the UPS package at the holiday time. Did you really place that UPS order?
Kenneth Wilson [:Yes. And and some of these emails look so authentic. I mean, you have to you have to really stare them down. And, I'm I'm just like a big fan of the fishing button.
Rita Reynolds [:Yes.
Kenneth Wilson [:You know, when in doubt, hit the fishing button. Send it to send it send it off. Let it let it let some experts clean it and then send it back to you and say that it was. I would people shouldn't have fear about getting the email back to find out that it it's legit when they thought it was something.
Rita Reynolds [:I just had 1, 3 days before this conference, and I'm like, I didn't like, why am I getting this scanner email? So I sent it to the official alert alert button and then our operations person said, hey did you get that email to show the package was mailed? So it was a real one, but I'd rather do it that way and find out, okay, I was playing it safe and in my position, like, the last thing I want is, you know, for me to be the one that infiltrates the organization with malware. I'd rather play it safe and have someone say to me, oh, let me resend it to you. So now you had you know it came from me.
Kenneth Wilson [:Yep. Any anything else before we wrap up you wanna share? You, a fun fun fact or, a great quote. We always like to give bonus content to the listeners on top of the county.
Rita Reynolds [:Oh, man. Oh, some great quotes. I have a couple of quotes and I of course, I won't be able to think of them right now. What I will say is that, the joy I have in working with the county IT leaders and just providing content and resources from the technology perspective is so rewarding. Working with your county IT leaders and their involvement on our committees.
Kenneth Wilson [:Are they alright? Our IT leaders are alright. They're pretty good people.
Rita Reynolds [:That you are very fortunate to have the staff that you have in that area.
Kenneth Wilson [:I think they're alright too.
Rita Reynolds [:Yeah.
Kenneth Wilson [:By the way, I think they're alright.
Rita Reynolds [:So, anyway, I can't think of the quote. There's one quote I like to give, but, it's my pleasure to work with the county IT leaders. And I serve on their behalf. I think that's the important thing. NACo's mission is to serve counties, and it's my personal mission to serve the county IT leaders.
Kenneth Wilson [:Yeah. You can I thought you would have something biblical or something to say being a a minister's wife or something?
Rita Reynolds [:I have to that's right. I've been a minister for 37 years, and, so oh my gosh. The bible is filled
Kenneth Wilson [:with quotes. It's like quote. It's like quotes about a quote. Life's best quotes. Where? Well, what phrase comes to mind when you hear it. It's the best book ever. You know? That's not a better book than the Bible.
Rita Reynolds [:You you're absolute oh my gosh. Oh, you're absolutely right. I there's an Albert Einstein quote, and I can't think of it right now, that I like to use. And, get oh my gosh.
Kenneth Wilson [:So y'all have it?
Rita Reynolds [:Okay. So this doesn't even apply to this, but it kind of does. K? You had a ransomware incident. Not not New York County. County's had a ransomware incident or there's been some catastrophe with technology. The quote I like to use with my staff when something goes wrong, listen listen. There's a difference between tragedy and comedy, and it's time. You all you all look back on this this situation in 6 months, and you'll see some humor in it.
Rita Reynolds [:And they're like, really? I said, yeah. Trust me. You will. You will. And you will have grown from it. So that's about the only point I can think of for today.
Kenneth Wilson [:Okay. I know we were so orderly and then I just went I went silent.
Rita Reynolds [:That's right.
Kenneth Wilson [:So, I'm a I'm a hit you with another one before we wrap up.
Rita Reynolds [:I hope I can
Kenneth Wilson [:Beach beach or mountains. This one is easy.
Rita Reynolds [:Oh, that one's easy. Beach.
Kenneth Wilson [:Beach. I'm a check.
Rita Reynolds [:I grew up in South Jersey, and we called it the beach. Everyone coming in from other states called it the shore. It is the beach.
Kenneth Wilson [:Beach has been winning out, during these podcasts. Whenever I ask that question, be beaches beaches really, way ahead of mountains. I believe I may have had one person say they wanna be in the mountain. I don't know what it is. There's something about the beach. Everyone choose a beach.
Rita Reynolds [:So in closing, just that this won't mean anything after Sunday, but this is shark week. I don't know if you knew that.
Kenneth Wilson [:I did not know that.
Rita Reynolds [:We're in Tampa. It is shark week. And on Sunday morning, and Adam, your your CIO is participating in this. We are doing a workshop on cyber best practices in the fashion of the, Shark Tank, television program.
Kenneth Wilson [:Okay. Who says that there is this creativity used in a positive way?
Rita Reynolds [:That's right. That's right.
Kenneth Wilson [:Alright. This has been a great conversation, here talking with the CIO of NACo, Miss Rita Reynolds. We've had a great conversation, great great second podcast, here at the NACo annual meetings. And, I appreciate everything you do for America's counties. And in closing, as we always conclude, do you, nobody else has time for you.
