This podcast episode explores the profound and intricate world of storytelling, particularly as it pertains to the film "Searching for the Elephant." Our esteemed guests, David Alford and Joseph Stam, share their insights into the art of filmmaking from a Christian perspective, emphasizing the paramount significance of truth in their narratives. Throughout our conversation, we explore their creative processes, the challenges they face, and the compelling themes of isolation and redemption that permeate our work. Alford and Stam articulate their commitment to portraying characters authentically, inviting audiences to connect deeply with their struggles and triumphs. This episode serves as an enlightening discourse on the transformative power of film and storytelling as a medium for conveying truth and fostering understanding in an increasingly fragmented world.

Hey there.

Welcome back to the Clarity podcast.

This podcast is all about providing clarity, insight and encouragement for life and mission.

And my name is Aaron Santemaier and I get to be your host.

Today we have the phenomenal opportunity to have with us on the podcast David Alford and Joseph Stamm who are directors, actors in the movie movie Searching for the Elephant.

And so just a phenomenal conversation with them.

We got to talk about a lot of different things about their love for filmmaking, some films that they value.

We got to talk about the idea of making films from a Christian point of view.

Phenomenal response to that.

And then you will see throughout this interview their return and it keeps coming up.

You know that they want to tell a story, share a story, have a film that is truthful.

And so just really, really appreciated that returning part to the interview as we talked about it, this importance that they place on truth.

And then obviously they're followers of Jesus and that is our source of truth.

And just you can see that come out in who they are.

And then we got to talk about that dynamic of working multi generational.

So David's a little older than Joseph and just to get to see them interact the mutual respect they have for each other and how they're creatively working through the process to make films.

They'll talk about this one, Searching for the Elephant and then they'll.

Then they'll also talk about a new film that they have coming out in in the coming days.

And so just a.

Yeah just a great, great conversation.

Appreciated them both being on there and one they do thing they do share that this, this film is not made for young kids.

This, this tackles addiction.

Searching for Elephant tackles the family.

DY know, just some adult themes I guess is how you would say it.

So it's.

This is not, you know a movie for your kids on, on movie night, sit down and watch with your kids.

I do think it tackles the realities of what many of us family members, people that we know that are facing and bring some, bring some clarity to that.

And so I really appreciate them and just the opportunity to learn from them.

We get to talk about telling a great story.

They, they highlight the importance of how we can share a story.

And just some things I think is many of us that listen in, we try to communicate through media.

So what better way to than have professionals that this is what they do and get to learn from them do and ask you to continue to send in your questions for Back channel with Foeth.

That's where we get to sit down with Dick Foth and get to learn from him.

Always a joy to have Dick on the podcast.

Also, when I ask you to subscribe to the podcast, I know the podcast.

I subscribe to the ones that show up on my phone every Monday or Tuesday and know what I'm going to be listening through throughout the week.

And just a reminder that my book, A Carrying Family came out in December.

It's a book that I wish I would have read 20 some odd, but I spend a lot of my life trying to be unique and special and miss those opportunities to be loved and known.

Well, there's no time better than now to get started.

So here we go.

Greetings and welcome back to the Clarity podcast.

So excited to be here today with two new friends of the podcast who are creative geniuses and have giftings and talents that I don't have.

And so, my friends, will you begin just by sharing a little bit about yourselves?

And then I'm going to get to ask you a lot of questions about storytelling and moviemaking and all the things I don't know much about.

So, yeah, could you just share a little bit about yourselves?

All right, Joe, you can go first if you want.

Alrighty.

Well, my name is Joseph Stam.

I started acting in theater.

Growing up, I was really interested in the arts and in writing and when and David, when he started his production company, asked me to audition for his first film.

So I did.

I went and got that role and ended up playing this boy dying of cancer in Cross Purposes, which was our first film.

And then the production company was founded based on that first film and is now called Cross Purposes Productions.

And since then I've just been writing and directing and acting and trying to apply myself in every aspect of filmmaking.

And I'm so much older than Joe.

My story's much longer, but I'm trying to make it as short as possible.

I've been an educator.

I've been an actor professionally.

I've been a filmmaker for about five years.

Kind of stumbled into it backwards, but it's kind of a natural extension of what I've done my entire life, which is to be a storyteller.

And I find power in storytellings that say the way Christ used it in his parables.

It's just a way of communicating ideas with people.

It seems basic.

It seems like it connects with people on a fundamental level.

And I find that engaging, exciting, and powerful.

Forward to doing it as long as I'm still kicking on this planet.

Awesome.

Awesome.

So this first question I have for you both, what are Some films or filmmakers maybe that inspire you, wiggle back.

I go back to the 80s.

I mean, I think everyone kind of remembers their first Spielberg film.

And it's because the man's a storyteller.

Yeah, he plays with great special effects.

He has cool aliens we hadn't seen before.

He can work with kids like nobody's business.

But that man knows how to tell a story.

He knows how to get your heart pumping too.

Because how many of us didn't cry during E.T.

i mean, he's just in that and he's gone on to produce these incredible masterpieces.

So as far as filmmaking goes, that man runs the scope for me.

Yeah, that's really fair.

I think a particular film that I go back to that's a really tough watch, but a really good one is Silence by Martin Scorsese.

And that one is about missionaries.

And it's a really.

One of my favorite faith based films.

Just really questioning what it means to live out your faith day by day and you know, sort of when you put in sort of a impossible situation and listening for God's voice.

Yeah, I don't want to give it all away, but I think it's a really important film for.

For Christians to watch.

It's very challenging in a really positive way.

Awesome, awesome.

So you mentioned you share stories from a Christian point of view.

What does that mean, to share a story from a Christian point of view?

Go ahead.

Did you have that?

I mean, it's who we are.

And so there's no way that us as Christians, that if we're.

We can only tell a story from our point of view.

I mean, we can only tell stories that are personal to us that we can emotionally engage in.

And we're going to have a perspective on that because of our faith.

So to me it's kind of inescapable because we're artists who are Christians.

And so that's the first thing I would say.

Yeah.

And that's a really great way to say it.

I'm glad you said it that way.

As far as being Christian storytellers, we can only tell things from our point of view, but we also be careful not to become Christian storytellers, that we only tell Christian stories because I don't know if there's such a thing.

Stories are stories.

I mean, if you look at the stories from the Bible, there's some rough, hard, edgy stories in there that are uncomfortable to read, but they show how God moves inside of those.

So when it comes to telling Christian stories, I kind of get off this idea that they all look and sound like a Hallmark movie or a Christian pamphlet with a lovely bow at the end where everyone's in white singing in a choir at the end of every movie.

I'm afraid that's what we think of when we think of Christian stories.

And so I kind of want to move away from that to say I want the storyteller who is a Christian, and I can only tell things by my perspective, which is what that is.

So I'm 100% agreement with Joe on that.

Good word, good word.

So many of the people that listen into this podcast are missionaries.

And one of the joys and challenges of being a missionary is trying to communicate through media what God's called them to do, how they can tell the story of where they're at, the people that God's called them to, and honestly to share those stories back to the American church or wherever they come from.

And so what's some advice you can give to them?

Obviously, you guys are both phenomenal creatives and able to operate in this space, but a guy like me, who's a nurse practitioner, that I'm a science guy with a background, it's.

It doesn't come naturally to me.

And so what are some words of wisdom as they, as someone tries to tell a story and communicate through media, their work and the call that God has on their life?

I think it's important when you look at the story that we just told.

Searching for the Elephant, Joseph plays a man suffering from drug addiction.

It's a, it's outside his world.

It's a different environment, environment than he's ever grown up in his entire life.

So spending time with that and getting to know that world and trying to bring that world to people who've never experienced it before is a way that he's connected now you can tell it better than me.

Stories like that can, can force you to live with these people up close in a way that you wouldn't normally.

And I think when we're talking about trans cultural stories that can do the same thing in sort of a different way.

Yeah, I mean, that's the beautiful thing.

The gift that God's given us in film is.

And he's done this through other art forms as well, but film particularly, you are right up close to these people, you know, for two hours.

And again as like searching for the elephant.

You may in real life never want to be that close to a Jason or to a Griff.

You know, you probably don't, but you're kind of Forced to for these two hours, and you start understanding them and empathizing them with them in a whole different way.

And hopefully then in your real life, when you walk away from that film, when you see that Jason or that Griff in your life, you think about them differently or, you know, where they're coming from, maybe a little bit more.

And so I think films can do the exact same thing between cultures and things like that.

People that they, you know, don't have the opportunity to be that close to and have that understanding with, you know, across the ocean, they can.

They can still have that intimate experience with them and understand them.

And so, yeah, it's a really powerful tool if you just use it really truthfully and honestly.

And, yeah, just apply yourself to create something that is excellent.

Because for us, you know, we started with crash purposes.

Like I mentioned, that was a really small film.

The production quality is not why that film took off.

You know, that film took off at film festivals and, you know, got picked up for distribution and is, you know, shown around the world on streaming services.

And none of that happened because of our production quality or cool special effects.

Or special effects.

But what we were able to do, it all starts with story.

And if it's not on the page, it's not on the stage, you know, so the story, you know, people saw it and they recognized the truth in it and the realness in it, and it connected with people.

And you would be surprised what audiences miss when it comes to technical, you know, glitches and things like that and inconsistencies when they're that caught up in the story.

When you have something true to tell from your heart.

Yeah.

And I think when you're trying to cross a culture, touch people, you want to share your story and you want them to share theirs.

I mean, caption it on film is a way you can take it back to other people and say, here's a story that we all get the feelings, we all get the basic emotions.

They happen to be from a different culture.

Then you feel connected to that culture because it's like we're the same in so many ways.

And the ways that we're different are fascinating.

So I think film can be a great bridge for missionaries to use to reach out across, to take stories from here to there and to bring stories from there to here.

And because it's visual, you know, you might need some subtitles and things like that.

But, you know, so much of film, you can still get the basic emotions and understanding just through the music and the image.

And I think that's really powerful.

I think, as you're saying, it create.

It communicates the humanity and dignity that we all have.

And the reality of it is we might grow up in different cultures, different places, but at the same time, we're all.

We're humans, right?

We have the basic emotional needs.

We want to belong, we want to matter, we want to be known.

And I think film gives us that.

That.

That opportunity to do that.

And that's why it's been.

It's an honor just to learn from you both today.

So I'm going to ask you one or two more questions before we jump into Searching for the Elephant.

But so the.

The first question I have before we jump into that is, what are some.

You've both mentioned storytelling.

And so what are some great keys or what are some of the keys when you look to tell a story?

What are some keys you can help us with as we navigate trying to tell a story?

It starts with character.

You have to have people you want to spend time with.

And that means.

I always equate it to.

It's like when you have an audience, you're taking them for a ride, you're letting them get in your car, and you're going to take them for a ride.

You want to take them someplace they want to go.

You want to take them with people they want to spend time with, and when they get back, you want them to be glad that they went.

And that seems really basic, but that's what you're looking for in a story.

I want to meet people in this story that I'm fascinated by.

I either see myself in them or I don't see myself in them.

And I'm going to learn something about myself because they're so different from me.

You might not like them, but you don't go fascinating.

You have to be interested in them in some way, and you have to go someplace you haven't been before.

And I'm not talking geographically, I mean emotionally or mentally or spiritually.

You got to go someplace you haven't been.

And that's a big part of the story as well, too.

So I feel like, as storytellers, we're looking for those key elements so that we have a story that we're all going to be happy, that we invested, because we're talking about investing years of our life into a story.

You want it to be something that you really care about, that really think is going to make a difference in people's lives.

Yeah.

Joe, you have any more thoughts on that?

I mean, that about summed it up for me.

Yeah, I mean, I think the idea too, I think a lot of people, when they're starting to put together a story, think it's based off of one idea.

And I think that probably makes people kind of chase their tailors because there's no one idea that's worth two hours.

You know, it's.

There's no one theme or anything like that.

Like, hopefully every scene will have three different ideas running through it.

And so for me, it's really important when starting to build a story, build a character, build a world, I just use sticky notes.

My office wall is just full of sticky notes of just little phrases and little things.

Looks a little crazy if you've seen A Beautiful Mind.

Looks a little bit like that.

But you go and basically you're just trying to fill up your picnic basket with as much material as you can.

And then you're never gonna use everything, you're never gonna eat everything that's in that picnic basket.

You're never even gonna get it out.

But you want to be over prepared.

At least for me, going into a writing process and starting to put together a story.

And so there needs to be that first idea that kind of, you know, starts you down the path and then it's just a matter of just exploring and just picking all the barriers you can along the way.

Yeah, I think that's something a guy that's watched a lot of films and watched a lot of things, you don't recognize that planning that you both have talked about that we don't see that.

You know, you just see the finished product and so you don't see the.

You talked about years and all the planning that goes into it.

We do see a finished product.

So to help us know that we need to be prepared.

And, and it takes intentionality.

And it's not just something that magically comes together.

I think gives a little bit encouragement for guys like me to know that, yeah, there are some steps.

Steps that we can take.

So how did your guys first filmmaking opportunity come together?

And then we're going to jump into searching for the elephant.

Okay, well, it started with you.

Yeah, it started about five, six years ago.

I was writing a play because I was involved with the professional theater here in the area and they have a playwriting contest.

I thought, ooh, I've been wanting to write for a while, I'll throw my hat into that.

So I wrote a short script and as I was writing, I was like, I don't see a way this could work on a stage.

I just was like, it just didn't work.

I wonder if it might work in film now.

I'd never made a film, but I thought I'd studied film some in college.

So I had some idea.

But I thought, well, I'll just see if this might work.

And then as far as the script writing, I kind of shared it with some friends who I knew had made a short film before in the area.

And they really enjoyed the script and said, yeah, I think we can do this.

So we just got a bunch of friends together in our little community.

Because we live in a small area in southwest Virginia.

So we got some friends together and we went on a long weekend and we fought and shot this film.

And it turned out that we submitted it to a few film festivals, we got a few things going on, and it just took off and ended up getting distribution and distribution, like Joe said, around the world.

And so that triggered us the opportunity to do it again.

We're like, well, hey, that actually worked well.

So I had a book that I had been trying to write for a little while, and I said, well, I'll try it.

I converted it to a screenplay.

And in that feature film, we shot it the next summer.

It took us about a year to get it ready.

Cause it takes a long time to work this out.

We shot it that summer during COVID and all the craziness of COVID was going on.

And as we were filming, we had a crew of about 30, 35 people.

And the governors were like, going, okay, no more than 50 people can get together now.

And now no more than 40 people.

We're like, oh, no, we have 30.

People on our crew.

And if one person came in with COVID we had to test every day for temperatures and stuff.

When people arrived, person showed up for Covid, the entire film would have been shut down.

And we didn't have the money to go any further.

So we were hanging by a thread through that entire process.

Every day is like, okay, God says, yes, we can all keep going.

So we kept going, and we shot that film in two and a half weeks.

Which, if anyone's been around filmmaking, that's a ridiculous number of days.

It usually takes months to shoot a film, not weeks.

But we flew through that film, and our distributor called us back and said, hey, guys, do you have another film?

Cross Purposes is doing really well.

Do you have anything else for us?

We said, well, we shot this film, but it's just raw footage.

We haven't fixed it.

We haven't cleaned it, we haven't put sound through it correctly.

Like, oh, that's okay, let us see it.

We're like, oh, no, that's not a good idea.

This is our one shot.

We don't want to blow it because the film was so rough.

But they looked at it, they insisted.

So we gave it to them and they looked at it and they signed us, sent us a contract seven hours later.

Wow.

It was the fastest signing they'd had in their 35 year history as a company.

And they took the film, so we finished it up and sent it to them.

And it's since gone global as well too.

And so for us, it's just been a matter of looking for stories year after year.

We've been shooting one film a year for the last five years.

And God's just been amazing.

We could tell a hundred stories of how things were completely going off the rails and God would supply exactly what we needed at just the right time and just the right person to make it happen.

And so after a while, it got to where we were having fun.

It's like, what goes wrong today?

Cool, let's see what God's gonna do to fix it.

And he always had an answer for it.

Just a matter of like the day before we're supposed to shoot locations being dropped, us not having anywhere to shoot, you know, tomorrow, and, you know, ending up finding another location that's way better than the one we had before.

And just things like that, that every time something went wrong and every time we lost something, it was replaced with something better than we ever could have expected.

Good word, good word.

So searching for the elephant.

Can you guys.

You mentioned a few of the characters as we began our conversation.

Could you share a little bit about and maybe share.

Is this.

Is this a film for kids?

Is this a film for families?

Is it.

Who did you.

When you thought the ideal person to.

To watch this film, who were you thinking of?

We've got about four films that we did before this one, and they are for the full family.

I mean, we've made films with a lot of kid actors and a lot of cute animals and fun stories and hard stories too.

But this one was.

We wouldn't recommend this one for kids.

This one's for older teens and adults because it deals with addiction and it deals with it in a very raw and real way.

And it's a story about a young man who's in his 20s.

He is suffering with addiction, but it's because he's hurting so badly.

He's pushed everybody in his life away from him.

And so he is forced to go live with his grandfather, whom he's never met, who is also suffering and hurting and has pushed everybody away from him.

So we basically have two castles here, two stonewalled castle men with hearts surrounded by stone, who are forced to now live together.

And, boy, they don't like each other, and, boy, they don't get along.

And at times it's almost comical how badly they don't get along.

And they have to kind of find a way to chisel through those walls and reach each other.

And once they do, it's a really tender story.

Actually.

Joe's in it.

He should tell you about it.

Yeah, no, it's really my character, Jason, yeah, gets sent on parole to live on his grandfather's ranch.

And then there's some.

There's some people who come after him.

So there's a little bit of excitement and adventure that comes into the story as well.

But, yeah, it was a really fascinating experience getting to portray this character and really get into his head and this story, and it was fascinating.

A lot of the research that I got to do about addiction because, I mean, it's such a prevalent issue, especially in this area where we are, you know, David said a few times that, like, it's.

It's hard to find a family in this area that's not affected by it in some way.

And so for me, going and through the process of just doing my own research and trying to portray it as accurately as possible, and then also meeting with people who suffer from addiction themselves and are in recovery or have just come out of recovery, or families who have no people who are in recovery.

That process was really an emotional one.

They were very vulnerable with me.

But it was a great process to portray that accurately for the person who plays my grandfather and the person who plays my mom to do the same thing.

So we were all kind of working together with that to bring these people's stories to life, in a way.

And so, yeah, so it is a tougher story because of that, because we wanted to do it accurately, I guess, is what I'm trying to say.

And that was a tough call because a lot of Christian entities will not support a film that's tough and rough that way.

It made it not eligible for a lot of Christian film festivals and a lot of things like that because it's edgier and it's harder.

But we felt it was really honest because we wanted people to look at that and say, yeah, that's the world I live in.

That's where I come from.

And so that way, when they say God intervene in that situation, they could see how that could happen in the real world.

If we created a world that was artificial, a world that was like artificially happy or artificially clean swept, people would recognize that and would feel manipulated by us.

Like, that's not how the world is.

And if they're manipulated by our movie, they could mistakenly feel like they're being manipulated by our beliefs.

And that to me, is really dangerous.

I need to make sure that I'm being as honest as I can and so that people don't feel like my savior is manipulation because he's not.

So.

But still making can feel like it is if we're not careful.

So it was really important to us that we go beyond our comfort zones.

We don't live this way, we don't talk this way, but we want to make sure that we've created a world that people look at and go, yes, that's the world I live in.

And oh, look, God's in that world too.

And it was really encouraging.

The people that helped me with the research of this film went to the premiere of the film and it was just so.

It just kind of breathed a sigh of relief that they thought that it was accurate.

And just talking with them, coming up to me with tears in their eyes, just talking about how they felt like it was a really accurate and real portrayer of the harshness of it all and how rough that life is.

But then also just the message of hope at the end was very encouraging to them.

And so, yeah, that's been really cool to see the way that God has used the film.

So did your minds change about anything?

So you went in to make a film.

There was a compelling story.

I love how you continue to emphasize you want it to be truthful.

I don't know if you guys have recognized how many times you've said the word truth when you talk about storytelling, you've talked about truth.

When you talked about this movie, truth.

And it's a recurring theme as you both talk.

And that's refreshing for me to hear.

And so thank you for that.

But was there anything that you walked into this and you thought had an idea or maybe a assumption about addiction?

And when, as you did the research, you walked through this movie, you came out on the other side and had a new understanding or maybe a different perspective on it that you didn't walk into when.

When you were trying to make.

Beginning to make this film?

Because I think that would help you know, people that.

I've never struggled with addiction as far as drugs and alcohol and those type things, but.

And so sometimes you have these ideas and maybe they're just not true, but.

Any thoughts as you've walked this road?

It was really important on this story that we approach the story from the character's point of view and that we, not these characters aren't addicts, these are people who have addiction as part of their life and so.

Or PTSD as part of their life.

So we always approach the characters as people first and their problems second.

And I think that that's why it really helps.

I think that's why you see a kind of an irregular pattern in our scripts.

The people talk and it's like this feels a little random, but it feels a little true too because it's really important that we know not look at them as their problems, the sum of their issues, because they are people and they're three dimensional.

And we create them with that history first and then we overlayer it with the addiction or PTSD and say, how would that now affect this person that we've created?

If we go into it, think about as an addict, then we do develop that one dimensional perspective.

As creators and writers and as actors, we then portray them as one dimensional people.

I think one thing Joe's found out in his research, research is that these are, these are really, really real people who are suffering with a very real issue.

And it hits them all in different.

Ways and they're broken and just dealing with the same things that we all do.

I mean, we all isolate ourselves in different ways, we all numb ourselves in different ways.

I mean, we stick our head in the sand sometimes.

Some of us do that through entertainment, some of us do that through all sorts of things.

And they do that, that, you know, Jason does that through this way.

And so, and, and obviously we see the way that Griff isolates himself.

So isolation is a huge theme in the film, I think, and it's one that I think a lot of people can relate to these days because I think a lot of people feel isolated.

It's so much easier to isolate yourself nowadays than it ever has been.

I mean, we all can call ourselves up in our homes and hang out with our technology and never talk to anybody.

And so isolation is a way of not dealing with things.

And so for us, we approach these people as people first.

So we felt really connected to them.

Whether we dealt with addiction or not, we'd all have some form of addiction we've dealt with whether we were willing to admit it or not.

So for me, I had like four months before the shoot to prepare for the character.

And so what I was doing in that four months was just developing all of his backstory from the time he was a child.

He wasn't always an addict, you know, he didn't intend to be.

This isn't a situation that he, you know, was planning on finding himself in.

So from when his first memories to up until the film starts, I was just building that entire backstory and trying to make him feel like a three dimensional person who has been living, you know, before the film starts and will continue to live after the film ends, you know, that he's not restrained by the frame that we see.

And so that process was really helpful.

And then just finding his look with a costume designer.

And, you know, Jason has this edge to him based on the way people look down on him.

And so he kind of fights back with the way that he presents himself.

And so that was really interesting.

It was interesting to go in costume, and I would go to other cities and walk around and talk to people in character and things like that and just walk down the streets and things.

Things.

And that was a really helpful experience to kind of understand the chip that he had on his shoulder.

But, yeah, it was.

It was a very.

Sometimes a very dark place to go to because, you know, for.

For Jason, it really helped me understand what he was trying to numb once I found the rage and the hurt that he carries with him every single day.

I think you see that in the scene after the police confrontation, and then when he confronts Grift about his dad, you see this, like, rage and this hurt come out of him, and that was actually kind of relieving to let out finally, because that rage and the hurt that you see there was something I was trying to carry with me and hold in and not let out, and that was even harder to have all that bubbling up and not let it out.

That's why he needed to numb it, you know, and so to try to keep that in day by day was.

It was a tough headspace to be in, but one that was.

Was really rewarding in the end.

True.

So what do you.

When you.

When you watch.

When somebody watches this film, what were.

What do you hope that somebody takes away from it when they watch the film?

I mean, I know what I took away from it, but what.

What did you all.

What do you.

As the people that produced it, what do you.

What do you hope that people take away?

I think it's important that people, we all feel isolated, as we said, in many ways, some of us are better at reaching out to others, and some of us aren't.

And I think there's a lot of people in this day and age who are trapped alone in their.

In their problems.

And like Griff and Jason are at the beginning of this story.

And I.

What I want them to know is that there's a God who's bigger than all their problems that they can reach out to and who's looking for them and who's reaching toward them, and people just accept it.

That could make a difference.

Right.

And who's able to forgive them?

Who's able to forgive them and allow them to help them to forgive themselves.

And I think there's a lot of healing that can happen there.

And if so, that allows other people to then become part of your life again.

Because chances are for all these people, there's someone who loves them out there who is so anxious to get back in touch with them and reconnect with them.

And that's what this story happens is about.

About.

It's about isolation and it's about redemption.

And I think there's so many people who long for that in this world right now that I'm hopeful that this movie will encourage them to take the steps to make that happen.

I also think what's really great, I have to say, having the opportunity to have sat in the theater and heard audiences react to it and then talk to people afterwards.

You know, when we're producing the film, we always try to remind ourselves to take a step back and let.

Let the film be subjective enough for people, leave room for people to project their own experiences onto the film and then let God work within that.

And so what's been really interesting is talking to audiences after they watch the film and them telling me what the film meant to them, and me being like, we were never thinking of that when we were making the film.

But that.

Because it wasn't us, that wasn't us who brought that to their attention, we just left enough room for God to walk within that and for God to work within that person's life.

And so I think that's always really exciting is we definitely have all things that we want people to take away from it.

But what's been really encouraging is these.

Seeing the way that God moves and kind of takes over that process.

Good word.

So, two questions.

I have two more questions for you guys.

One is this.

So you're many of the people listening to this podcast.

There's a Younger generation, and then there's an older generation.

You guys kind of replicate that, like us, like me and.

And you guys, you have.

You have a phenomenal.

I mean, just the time I meet.

You have a great rapport.

You have respect for each other as you talk.

How have you developed that?

Because you work closely together to develop this film.

I think that it's just.

It's been.

I didn't plan on asking that question, but just watching the rapport between you two, I don't think I'd be doing my job well if I didn't at least ask that question.

So I appreciate that.

How have you guys learned to work in different generations, respect each other's different giftings and talents?

Talents to make something beautiful together?

Yeah.

I mean, I would say, like, I've learned a lot from David, and he's been a mentor to me just in life, and then also in developing my artistic voice and learning what I can about writing and storytelling.

And, you know, he doesn't need to ask any respect from me because it's all.

It's all there.

You know, it's in who he is and his work and the way he applies himself and how.

Just in his storytelling, how fearless he is to be very personal and to be very vulnerable.

And that's something that not everyone can do.

And he.

You know, we kept coming back to truth.

You were saying that.

And that comes from him.

I feel like.

I mean, I love stories.

I love putting them together, and I'm getting better at this.

But he has a meter that will go off if anything untruthful is in this story.

And if we start doing anything gimmicky or if we start doing anything cliche sort of thing, his meter goes off.

And he's not going to let that slide.

And I appreciate that so much.

And so what's fun is I feel like we're able to work together and be very truthful to one another, and we're able to argue our points.

You know, when we hit a crossroad in a story about where we feel like things should go, we're able to argue it out until.

Is that arguing?

Yeah, I guess we do.

I guess we do.

It's just like.

It's fun arguing.

It's almost like those two guys in the Muppets who step in the balcony, like, yip at each other.

It's kind of like that.

Right?

But we have.

But we do.

You know, we do fight for our argument.

We do fight for our.

But then the right answer is always clear in the End and both of us look at it and like, okay, yeah, that's right.

Yeah, so it's always clear.

And so yeah, that's just something that's definitely developed over time.

But yeah, it has.

And it did start off a mentor student relationship.

And Joe's got so much God given talent and he has such a natural flair for things and he works so hard at storytelling that for me I would give him advice and he'd give me something back and I'd go, oh, oh, that is good.

So I've learned over the years as he's earned my respect over the years as a peer and not as a student anymore.

It started out that way, but now I bounce things off of him knowing that I'm going to hear something solid back from him every time and his skills are just, I mean he's going to go so much further than I ever went with filmmaking.

And I'm so excited, excited to see that because he's learned so fast.

It's taken me years and he's learned it so quickly.

So listen to this younger generation.

They've got skills, they've got God given talent and if you give them enough space, they'll fill it.

Joseph certainly has.

Yeah, good word, good word.

Last question I have for you.

Is there a question you're thinking, man, if Aaron was a good podcast host, he would have asked this question about searching for the elephant.

If he was doing a really good job, he would have asked this so.

Or any that you can answer that one.

Or if there's things that you would like to share about the film that I didn't.

Maybe where people could find the film or certain things.

This is kind of my way of wrapping it up in a way that I'm making sure that you're getting to share the things that would be important for you to share.

Appreciate that.

Yeah, if you want to watch the film, Searching for the Elephant is on Tubi, which of course the super bowl was just on a few months ago.

So if you watch the super bowl, you have to be and you can just type in Searching for the Elephant.

Elephant.

And our film's right there.

Now be careful.

There's like a 17 year old South Korean film called the Same Thing that is Not Us.

You'll see it, you'll see it on there.

It's also available on Amazon Prime.

It's also available on Apple TV and Roku and a few other streaming.

If you want to find it or any of our films, honestly, you can go to our website which is www.crosspurposes productions with an.

If you do that, we have all the films there and you can click on each film and there's links, direct links to all the platforms it's streaming on that you can click there.

It'll take you straight to the films.

And that way you can find all of all the cross purposes movies.

Are there.

Yeah.

Anything else?

Yeah, I mean, we, we're working on some upcoming projects.

Working on a World War II story right now, and so we're.

We're hoping to shoot that this fall.

And it's based on a true story about these university students who grew up in Munich during World War II.

And they saw what was happening around them and saw how Hitler's regime was taking over.

And because of their faith, even though they had grown up in it, they knew this was wrong.

And they started writing these leaf leaflets and passing of them around their campus and it started to strike up a movement.

And the leaflets got distributed then across Munich and then across cities all across Germany and started a resistance.

And so the Gestapo were brought in soon after that to try to hunt them down.

And this movement started protests.

It was all started just by this brother and sister who just saw what was happening around them and saw that it was wrong.

And so I went to Germany and researched these people and their story, and it's been pretty incredible to see already how God is working in this story.

And so I'm excited to push it forward and see where it goes.

So that's what's next for us, I think.

Good deal.

Good deal.

Well, can I ask both?

Or one of you could pray for us.

That's how we end up.

We've ended all the podcast.

If you'll pray for us.

And yeah, it's been, it's been an honor to learn from you all.

Once again, I do appreciate your focus on truth and telling a story that's not manipulative, but trying to do.

Obviously, we serve a savior who is truth.

And so you've continued that theme throughout.

It's just been an honor to learn from him.

And so, yeah, if you pray for us, I'd appreciate, Appreciate it.

Sure.

I'd be happy.

Absolutely.

Let's pray.

Dearly Father, we thank you so much for Aaron's ministry and his outreach.

And Lord, I pray you'll continue to bless it and focus it and, and take it in whatever direction you'd have it to go.

Lord, I give you thanks and praise for the people that he services and the work that they do and how important it is.

And I pray that you will just touch their ministries and let them see you in everything that they say and do.

And Lord, I thank you so much for this time that you've given us us to make new friends and to be together in Jesus name, amen.

Amen.