Ep. 238 | In this brilliantly articulated and illuminating conversation, renowned international facilitator Thomas Hübl shares his deep understanding of the dynamics of collective trauma as well as practical wisdom about how we can heal the large, often inherited, wounds we carry. Thomas conveys the magnitude of problems created by shoving our collective wounds out of sight and mind, perhaps the worst consequence of which is when we do this, we are destined to repeat the same horrors over again. What we need, Thomas explains, is to develop an architecture that would provide a healing space to deal with our wounds (racism, genocide, and immigration, to name a few). Meeting our collective pain in this way would allow us to mature to a level of forgiveness where we could collaborate globally on urgent issues like AI and climate change. Without this healing, Thomas says, the energy that can forgive remains frozen in the wound.
The dialogue becomes profoundly hopeful as Thomas describes someone who has met their pain and healed themselves of individual and collective trauma. Listening is like receiving a transmission—for a moment we feel ourselves to be this person: integrated, authentic, vulnerable, fully attuned to our reality, at peace with both the beauty and the difficulties, free of false hopes and unrealistic dreams. If we could embrace the power of collective healing that Thomas has witnessed again and again in his work, and “melt the permafrost of our collective trauma,” we could step out of the never-ending cycle of violence, cruelty, and misunderstanding that will otherwise continue to haunt us. This conversation goes right to the heart of things: if we recognize our interrelatedness and find a way to practice interdependence, we can grow beyond our individual and collective pain into a tremendously more hopeful future. Recorded October 30, 2025.
“Unconscious information is destiny. Conscious information has a choice, has a future.”
Topics & Time Stamps
- Introducing teacher, author & facilitator Thomas Hübl, who offers a deep understanding of collective trauma—and collective healing (00:49)
- How is Thomas able to stay attuned and hold this large field he works with? (02:43)
- Attunement is another way to say interdependence (05:56)
- A grounded spiritual practice helps to hold the space & learn from the process, rather than direct the process (06:57)
- How does Thomas understand the healing process? (10:51)
- Bringing awareness to a collective wound allows it to give its gift (14:03)
- Has Thomas found a way of working with the Israel/Gaza situation? (16:03)
- Hot trauma is different from historical or ancestral trauma (21:55)
- Without processes to deal with large wounds, the repetition compulsion will keep happening (23:00)
- How to deal with authoritarian regimes whitewashing history? (25:47)
- Huge trauma wounds in the U.S.: racism, genocide, and now immigration (27:07)
- We need a collective healing space; everybody who is alive has been born into this legacy and it has become normalized (28:22)
- In this global village, there is no “them” anymore (30:25)
- Cultural amnesia allows us to live with violence; nonviolence is a natural consequence of realizing interdependence (32:06)
- Ethics and health are inherently interrelated (34:17)
- You cannot erase history; it’s a felt experience in our bodies (36:14)
- The exaggeration of separation & self-righteousness by social media (37:11)
- The reality we create with each other is painful; hope lies in a sense of agency (40:16)
- How can we forgive horrific violations of life? Melting the permafrost of our collective trauma (42:58)
- What does a person look like who has faced these deep issues and healed? (49:08)
- The power of healing collectives is very hopeful for accelerating social transformation (55:58)
Resources & References
---
Thomas Hübl, PhD, is a renowned teacher, author, and international facilitator who works within the complexity of systems and cultural change, integrating the core insights of the great wisdom traditions and mysticism with the discoveries of science. Since the early 2000s, he has led large-scale events and courses on the healing of collective trauma.
Thomas is the author of Attuned: Practicing Interdependence to Heal Our Trauma—and Our World, Healing Collective Trauma: A Process for Integrating Our Intergenerational and Cultural Wounds, and most recently, co-author of Releasing Our Burdens: A Guide to Healing Individual, Ancestral, and Collective Trauma, with Richard Schwartz. Hübl has served as an advisor and guest faculty for universities and organizations, as a coach for CEOs and organizational leaders, and is currently a visiting scholar at the Wyss Institute at Harvard University.
---
Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell
