Ep 4. Matt White OBE - Championing British Food within University Catering

Derek Wright: 00:16

Welcome back to the Love British Food podcast. Whether you're a foodie, a farmer, or simply interested in the stories behind great british Food, you're in the right place. I'm your host, Derek Wright, and today we have an exciting episode lined up for you. On this episode we'll be talking to an industry legend, Matt White OBE, who is joining us to discuss his extensive experience in university catering and how he managed to embed british Food on the menus at Reading University. Matt also leads on the public sector catering alliance and has been heavily involved in In TUCO a leading industry body supporting in house catering. Today we're recording live from the LACA School Meals conference, so there may be a bit of noise.

Derek Wright: So Matt, for our listeners, just introduce yourself obviously from the university world and just tell us a bit about your career.

Matt White OBE: So I'm Matt White, until very recently was the director of student services at the University of Reading, a which involved catering. I've been a caterer all my life and I've just completed 34 years, at the University of Reading. I'm also the past chair of TUCO. Tuco is the university Caterers organisation and I'm also now the chair of the public sector Catering alliance. So all of the various public sector entities such as LACA, which are the school food people, NACC, which is care catering, hospital caterers, we all come together to share knowledge and best practise. and unfortunately be the chair of that. And that lasts up until Christmas this year.

Derek Wright: It's not unfortunate, it's a good thing. And just tell us a little bit about how those associations maybe play a role in ensuring that British produce and quality producer getting into those establishments.

Matt White OBE: So again, I mean sharing best practise is probably the key to the success of our organisations because as caterers we're obviously all on the front line and you don't come up for air very often. so it's really important that conferences, events where we come together, we're able to share that knowledge. And British produce is at, ah, the heart of what we're trying to do in terms of our work around sustainability to ensure the quality of product and with all of the political shenanigans, if you like, that have been going on in the past few years, it's driving change that we as a force together are able to do. And you know my point about us not coming up for air very often. We don't need to reinvent the wheel. We can learn from each other. We're not in competition with each other. In many cases there are a few where we are, but where we're not, what's the harm in sharing what somebody else has already done, and finding routes, if you like, to market, particularly again, for British produce? My job, I see it as being a champion of that, to make sure that people can understand there are small steps that all of us can take to make sure that we are getting more and more British produce onto plates and to be able to then share with each other what the benefits of that are. It's easy for us to be able to network, to emulate each other, to be able to then almost develop a culture and make this something that is easy to do. It doesn't need to be difficult.

Derek Wright: Very coincidental. We're here at the school food show, the main event for LACA and I think that demonstrates some of those things that you've been talking about around the suppliers, the innovation, the networking opportunities, and it does really impact.

You mentioned a little bit about change, and I think obviously you have spoken a lot about school meals in the other podcast, but just concentrating on universities, I mean, just as a, ah, bystander, over the last ten years we've seen massive changes in universities and the size of universities and also the role that food plays within the sector. Just tell our listeners a little bit about that change that has gone on.

Matt White OBE: So the interesting thing with university students is they're obviously at a key point in their lives where they're probably for the first time living away from home. They're now not being fed, they're having to feed themselves. And so there's a lot of experimentation goes on. There's a reason that banks and insurance companies try to target students because they make habits for life. Again, my work has been focused around trying to influence students with food, to get them to actually experiment a little bit, for them to be able to look at what their options are. They're often working on quite a tight budget,

:: 05:00

Matt White OBE: so we've got an option of being able to actually influence through the food that we serve and then we've gone steps further. We've actually developed recipe cards, online videos, really short and sharp, punchy things that enable students to be able to kind of, if you like, play with food, to be able to work out what they really like and that they're not then living on a diet of pasta and chips and pesto and chips, but, you know, trying to look at what produce is all about and, actually experimenting with it. So one of the things we've done, whilst I was at reading was we actually put in, tables that as you enter the dining services areas, we actually champion produce. So, for example, at reading we had our own bees, and we would get the honey from those bees and then we would then create recipes and do little tasters of it. So, like, if you go into a supermarket and there's a new product, get a new taster, we would do the same. So really just breaking down those sort of barriers to produce and letting people experiment with it. As I said, I'm using that word a lot, but it's that time in their lives when they're open to trying new things and then they'll go on and we find that, you know, we've had students that have come back even to work for us and they say, you know, you got me eating fish or you did this or you did that. So for us, it's quite exciting. The other thing within universities is obviously we've got the expertise of professors and academic staff that, are based around food. So Reading is a, ah, food and food farming University. so again, we decided it would be a really sensible thing to just bring those great minds together. So we've got a great catering team, we've got a great farming team, and then we've got a great agricultural, entity, and then we also have food bioscience and food sciences. So what we've tried to do is create what we've named menus for change. And we've been making very positive steps around actually taking the produce that we grow and then putting that on our plates. You can't get more British than the farm that's actually on our campus. Sounds good to me, you know, and we're bringing through so things like the beef. we discovered that the dairy cattle that we have, obviously, to ensure that the dairy continues, we have to keep the cows in a pregnant state. A lot of the calves that are born were male and they are useless to the dairy herd. So we started to experiment, can we actually take this into the food chain? And we have done that. So we take that entire carcass, we get it butchered down under a framework agreement that we have with TUCO. They then deliver that back to us. and so we're serving our beef is literally from our farm. We've created our own beef burger, where we produced the beef content. We've worked with, lentils and mushrooms to create a more umami flavour around it and created our own Reading burger recipe, which we're retailing out at ah, quite a high end price and it just makes brilliant commercial sense. The customer is extremely happy. They know exactly what they're getting and we're able to then cut down on the amount of pure beef that's going into a product like a burger.

Derek Wright: Yeah.

Matt White OBE: And then using all the other cuts and we use the entire from nose to tail carcas So for us it's just a no brainer.

Derek Wright: And I think that's really interesting because we ah, see a lot with our universities going totally meat free.

Matt White OBE: Uh-huh.

Derek Wright: And I know that there's, you know I talked to Chris the other week, Chris Ross from Edinburgh, and he spoke about a farm that's using the methane from the cows to generate heat and they've got a tomato glass house at the other end of the farm and that's showing farmers are starting to change because they have that investment, they have the back it because they know that the public sector and other organisations will buy that produce. And I think it's really interesting but around that, the subject of maybe going meat free, what's your opinion around that?

Matt White OBE: We actually went to our students about it as well and the result that we got back was no, we do not want to go meat free, we want choice and I'm a huge believer in that. I think that people have to have choice, we have to educate people to enable them to make the right choice. So we don't even encourage things like meet free Fridays or Mondays or whatever the terminology is. we literally just put plants forward on the menu. So first and foremost if you walk along one of the typical servery counters if you like at ah the University of Reading, you'll find that the first five or six products are probably going to be plant based. You'll have to hunt a little bit further to find a prime cut

:: 10:00

Matt White OBE: of steak or pork or whatever. but it's there, yeah. And it still sells quantity so there is a demand for it. And for us it's about treating produce with respect, making the best quality that we possibly can and making the food really, really exciting. So again we've bought nearly all of our back of house operations in terms of food production to the front of the house so that the students then again become really involved in the development of that food. And there's lots of light cooking and theatre that happens because then people can really understand what the product is that they're eating and what it takes to deliver it into whatever the end product is. I don't know if it's fajita or something like that. It isn't just this press a button and they actually see the ingredients coming together, the flavours that are added to it to create the final dish. And as I say, we, we've done a lot of work, particularly around sort of chef's theatres as well, where we have a kitchen dynamic where people can come and sit up at a, sort of circular chef's bar. The chef is in the centre talking to them about how to actually create this dish and they spend a lot of time talking about the actual individual product. So if the star of the show, if you like, is, I don't know, a piece of British fish, you know, they will explain why fish is quite expensive because of what goes into it and therefore you need to make that piece of fish go a long way. And I find it just mind blowing, to be honest, how the engagement levels are there because we talk about people that, you know, have come from a, sort of fast food culture or whatever. I don't believe that's true. I think people need to get involved with food, understand it and then they grow a real love for it. Then they understand why things cost what they do because they then understand what's gone into it to actually create that.

Derek Wright: Yeah. And having that, like you say, having that knowledge to really respect and understand it just underpins that quality product. And I think that's where we then start to understand sustainability and region farming. Yeah, that, yes, it might come with a, ah, higher price that's ultimately going to be better for the environment around us and the management of whether it's meat, whether it's crops, there is that balance to be had.

Matt White OBE: Exactly. And I think for me, that balance word that you've just used is what this is all about. If we take the healthy eating plate, which I don't think is particularly helpful at the moment, I think some work could be done around that. And interestingly, I think reading may well end up leading on that kind of thing. But for me, I think it's about understanding what we as humans actually need to consume. and then once you again have got that knowledge, you can then make informed decisions about how you like to eat those particular products and what you do with them, whether you want spice, flavour, etcetera, adding to these things. But for me, it's about getting key knowledge of the ingredient. It is quite shocking when students arrive at first how they are very limited in their knowledge of what particular products are. We did some blind tasting around some meat free sausages against some premium sausages. And then what I would call a sort of wholesaler. Ah, new sausage in the middle. We did these blind tastings and actually the real quality product won l time and time again and people were prepared to pay a premium for it. And I think that's the slight difference with school meals that are working to, a very tight budget within universities, there is an element of, yes, some of the catering needs to be done to a budget, but you've got the option of most things are, ah, retail.

Derek Wright: Yeah.

Matt White OBE: So there again is that choice. You've got to create something that actually people will come and buy or otherwise you get millions of Asda and Waitrose and whoever vans m pulling up at all the residents, definitely. so it's really important that the caterer, is in control of the product and is able to service the demand. And that's led by, I believe, getting the customer involved, making sure that it's quality and of course, the way that you actually present it.

Derek Wright: And you spoke a little bit the farming conference that we went to around dairy. Just tell us a little bit about the projects that you were involved with.

Matt White OBE: So in several universities, actually, this has happened. One of the things that there is a frustration about, particularly with baristas, because we have a lot of coffee shops in universities, is that you can't get milk in the kind of quantities that we need without having to create lots of plastic waste. We worked with Sheffield University, who kind of pioneered this. So Sheffield

:: 15:00

Matt White OBE: came up with the idea. They worked with a local farm. Again, it's called our cow Molly. So they started to buy the milk from this particular farmer who then worked with them to develop a reusable churn. So the churn actually goes back, to the pasteurisation unit after use, gets clean, refilled, etcetera, and comes back. So there is no plastic waste at all. But the churn is actually connected to a pump system that then brings the milk through for the barista to be able to then froth the milk or whatever the end game is. And this has actually been award winning. the technology around it has been painted and is then shared with other universities. So it's just a classic example of we've got the knowledge and the skills within our, own teams to then be able to work with the farming community and, find a solution to a problem that actually was causing huge issues in terms of not being able to recycle all of these elements. So I think one of the great things about universities is we're able to develop these innovations but then share them. that's just one classic example along with dairy.

Derek Wright: And it's interesting, isn't it, that it's took an original concept that we moved away from and bringing it back into line with all the legislation requirements that we've got now, but bringing it back and actually an old fashioned system fixing.

Matt White OBE: The problem now and getting around things like procurement frameworks as well, you know, actually working with the supply chain to develop solutions to problems that we're finding. So, I mean, one of the things that on the farming visit that we made together, I was kind of blown away by is the openness by the farmers themselves to say, well, talk to us, let's work together to find the solution and we can crack the procurement route, if you like, through the existing frameworks that we actually have. I mean, the butchery that I talked about earlier, that is a butchery contract that they were originally supplying the meat, we're now giving them the meat, they're butchering it and bringing it back. It's just win win. So nobody needs to be sort of scared of what the future holds here. I think this is, you know, our moment to grasp the nettle and say, look, we can actually work closer with the farm gate, see the produce that we want, command, if you like, the projects, the produce that we want and need, and then be able to get that onto public sector plates because the big blockage has always been talking about red tape and about, no, we need to go through our procurement frameworks. We can't buy outside of this framework. Can't do that, can't do this. No, that's rubbish. We literally just have to navigate a pathway through those supply chains together and you'll find that the suppliers will want to work closer, with the farmer as well. I think our biggest threat is getting enough of the produce that we need. And that's, again, where we need to be clear about what the volume of supply is that we need and to be able to commit to the farmer. Yes, I'm going to take this produce. I mean, again, one of the things we did at reading was looking at our menus of change programme about what were seasonal gluts. So spinach was one that came up fields and fields of spinach that actually could go to waste because there just wasn't enough of a market and uptake for it. So we were able to take lots of spinach at a really low price, produce that food, and then cook chill or cook freeze and then hold that for another day if you like. So ravioli, cannelloni, all of these things with spinach and ricotta, et cetera, we've just both won.

Derek Wright: Yeah, yeah. And I think that's an important point that for many years caterers have dictated to the market what we want now and that might not be possible, but if we all embrace more seasonality and reflect that on menus, it's a win win for both because it's so much.

Matt White OBE: More exciting for the customer.

Derek Wright: Oh, definitely.

Matt White OBE: You know, instead of it just always, I don't know, this, that and the other. No, today it's got to be this because this is the produce that's actually available and it's at its best because that's why it's available now. And, you know, then you get flavour and again, if you just do that little bit of legwork like I was talking about earlier of, these taster tables, just get the customer involved in what the product is, they'll have a go. Yeah, you know, and then you can. British strawberries is a. As we sat here whilst Wimbledon is going on, you know, they go through plenty of strawberries. Exactly. The price goes through the roof and what have you, but they're at their prime and you know, the flavour is fantastic. You taste test that, against something that's come from halfway around the world, in an aircraft that doesn't do soft fruit any good anyway, it's a rubbish product in comparison, you know. So I think all of this stuff with british Food is about quality,

:: 20:00

Matt White OBE: knowing what we're actually buying, working hand in hand with each other to be able to then make sure that we deliver the best of it. And pride. Yeah, definitely taking huge pride in what we actually do and celebrate because otherwise why do we do this all day, every day?

Derek Wright: Yeah, you for the cooks, the chefs in the kitchens, you're ah, working with quality ingredients that ultimately there's going to be more pride The result is a quality end product, quality meal. Whether that's for school children, university, more hospitals, just talking about british Food Fortnight, how would you encourage your universities, who may be listening to really get involved with that? And we've just talked about celebrating, but really celebrating what they are doing now and potentially what projects that they have coming up.

Matt White OBE: I mean, definitely I would suggest that TUCO's is probably the right place to start in that they are the coordinating arm of all in house provided catering within the UK. And when I was the chair, about 90% of universities were in house in terms of their catering offer. I think they're probably the right people to be able to, if you like, conduct the orchestra there to get a focus on a fortnight and, you know, really hone in on what are the great things that could be done using British produce during that fortnight and how we actually communicate that. Because the other thing with universities, they still, fortunately are, real international hubs. You know, the community is completely diverse and so you do have a wonderful opportunity to then really market the pride in British produce that we have. I would also suggest that it would be a really good idea to do something to actually encourage students themselves to develop recipes and share them using British produce, and then perhaps that could be put into production. I mean, we did something again at reading where we actually held almost like a competition amongst our students. It was in reverse to the celebrating British produce. It was about internationalisation. But what we did was take the winning dishes and then put those into production and actually named them. this is Matthew's lasagna or whatever, and promoted it with photographs of the student and why we. So again, that pride was kind of infectious, really. And I think there is a real opportunity to do something along those lines within the university sector. And again, TUCO hosts annual competitions, a bit like here at Laysan. And the scottish chef, as in the school chef of the year, we have very similar in terms of the catering teams within universities. And there is always, an overall winner, and there are different criteria of different types of competition. So it might be around grab and go snacks, this kind of thing, even through to fine dining. So there's a real opportunity there. And I know, Love British Food, have done a lot of work with Tuco around developing a Love British Food competition, which has been really, really exciting. I just think everybody would be up for it, to be honest. I, think it probably just needs that little bit more legwork and possibly getting the farmer involved as well. So taking some of the stories that I've, you know, shared with you today, you could actually capture that and then publicise that better to make that whole connection.

Derek Wright: Yeah. Matt, thanks so much. We've had our challenges, we know our recording, but thank you so much for.

Derek Wright: Coming onto this podcast and thank you.

Derek Wright: British Food Fortnight is on the 20 September to the 6 October. It's always the last week of September, and the first week of October, the traditional time for celebrating harvest festival within the UK. British Food Fortnight is an annual national celebration that brings together the very best of british Food so whether you're a farmer, a producer or a catering service, we hope you will celebrate with us. To get some inspiration, head over to britishfoodfortnight.org dot UK, a virtual town with lots of recipes, films and case studies to inspire you to take part in this celebration. Share your plans with us on our socials at, British foodfortnight or email us at infolovebritishfood.co.uk dot co dot UK for university caterers. Jane Eve from TUCO is our co chair of the education working group. If you want to get involved in british Food, Fortnite or the working group, please do get in touch. Stay tuned for our next episode where we'll be meeting Professor Bob Docherty from Fix our food live at the great Yorkshire show.

Derek: Now here’s Ben Bartlett with what is in season in August

Ben Bartlett: hello, it's Ben Bartlett, director and ambassador for Love British Food August is the month for fruit with all the berries, including blackberries, bilberries, blueberries, gooseberries, loganberries, raspberries and strawberries. There are also red currants, greengages, cherries, bramley apples and plums. Later, I will give you a delicious recipe for a fresh raspberry marinade. It's also a good month for vegetables with artichokes, aubergines, broad beans, broccoli, cabbage, carrots, cauliflower, celery, chillies, courgettes, cucumber, fennel, french beans, garlic, jersey royal potatoes, lettuce, the cos and iceberg varieties new potatoes, onions, peas, radishes, rocket runner beans, samphire or samha, spinach, spring onions, sweet corn, tomatoes and watercress. You can pick the following herbs basil, chervil, chives, coriander, dill, oregano, mint, parsley, rosemary, sage, sorrel, tarragon and thyme. You can freeze herbs easily by packing them into ice cube trays and covering with water. Once they're frozen, pop out, the herb cubes and pop them into a bag and they'll typically last up to six months. Buying British is so important and many supermarkets like Morrison's will label their British grown produce with a flag or other symbol to make it easy to find. Now, the meats in August include beef, lamb, rabbit and venison. And seafood for August includes mackerel, monkfish, mussels. Place salmon, sardines, scallops and silver mullet. It's also known as grey mullet. This is a fantastic sustainable seafood option and carries a similar flavour to Seabass. I'll be demonstrating some delicious British dishes this month at the living heritage game and country festivals on the chef's kitchen stage in Wiltshire and Cheshire do come along and say hello and try some delicious dishes. And my recipe of the month is a fantastic sweet and sour raspberry marinade that's a perfect partner for any meats it features on the Love British Food website and is in my new book, British and Australian Barbecue Secrets volume two roast sprubs and barbecue blends that is now available on Amazon.

Derek Wright: Thank you Ben. Lovely tips for keeping herbs fresh. Right you may have heard us talk about our recent farm visit of public sector influences. You can find the report from the visit in the link below. Thank you for tuning in to the Love British Food podcast where we share farm to fork stories from passionate individuals at the forefront of producing and delivering sustainable supply chains. We're dedicated to putting great british Food back onto the menu. If you enjoyed our farm to fork stories, please share our podcast with your friends family and joining the conversations on our socials at Lovebritish food or visit our website at lovebritishfood.co.uk Remember when you're out and about shopping, Love British Food, buy british Food. Supporting British farmers and producers while strengthening our local communities.

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