Rob Barnett is the co-founder and Chief Product Officer of Modern Classrooms Project, a really interesting project which, at its core, tries to use technology for better human interaction and relationships in the classroom. Rob is a hugely impressive educator as you will hear in this episode but you can also watch him at this TEDx talk.

Rob has also written a book, Meet Every Learners' Needs and has developed a very interesting tool called Insta-Lesson. I'd recommend you look at both!

Hello, Hello, you are very welcome to if

I were the minister for education from on

2

shot dot net, a regular podcast where I

dive into the world of primary education

3

in Ireland and let you know what I would

do if I were the minister for education.

4

This is Simon Lewis speaking.

5

If you enjoy this podcast, please

consider subscribing to my fortnightly

6

newsletter, where I go through some of

the news from Irish primary education

7

and beyond from my own perspective.

8

And I also give some hints and tips from

the classroom, some technology tips and

9

other bonus materials that's at onshaw.

10

net slash subscribe.

11

On this week's show, I am delighted to

be interviewing a man called Rob Barnett.

12

And while you will be very interested

in hearing what he has to say, is he's

13

come up with this really interesting

way to use technology in the classroom.

14

And in a way that I'm going to describe

to you is like having over 20 teachers

15

in the classroom who are all you.

16

It's a really interesting concept and

he's built a platform around it, which

17

I hope you'll enjoy listening about.

18

He's also developed a couple of

other tools and he's written a book.

19

He is a busy man indeed.

20

Rob Barnett is the co founder and

chief product officer of Modern

21

Classrooms Project and I think

you'll really enjoy hearing from him.

22

If you'd like to hear more from him

as well here I'll have all of his

23

links at the end of the show notes

as well as one of his TEDx talks

24

which is a really Good place to learn

to start by getting to know him.

25

But I'm very lucky that

I have him with me now.

26

And I'm delighted to introduce Rob to

if I were the minister for education.

27

, Simon: Rob, you're very welcome to

If I Were the Minister for Education.

28

Thank you.

29

I'm happy to be here.

30

And I think I should also say yes, I

am the co founder and chief product

31

officer of modern classrooms.

32

But before that, I was a teacher

and still feel like a teacher at

33

heart and have young kids myself.

34

I feel closely connected to

the classroom experience still.

35

And that's important in my work.

36

Thank you for having me.

37

Thank you.

38

So I suppose without sounding

like the first question in a job

39

interview, maybe tell us a little

about yourself and your career and

40

how you got to where you are today.

41

Sure.

42

Like I say, I was a teacher.

43

I always loved working with young

people and so I went into teaching.

44

When I became a teacher, I realized.

45

On any given day in any given class,

my students were all over the place in

46

terms of their needs, their backgrounds,

their abilities, even their attendance.

47

I would have my lesson for the

day, but some of my students would

48

already know that they would be.

49

Nothing new here.

50

Some of my students weren't

prepared to understand it because

51

they had gaps in their learning.

52

They would be lost.

53

Some of my students weren't there at all.

54

This was before COVID, but in the

community where I taught chronic

55

absenteeism was a huge problem.

56

So I needed to find a solution for that.

57

And what I did is I stopped

teaching the same content at the

58

same time to all my students.

59

I.

60

Took my lessons, and I made

short videos of myself.

61

Very simple videos.

62

Basically, start a Skype call with

myself, hit record, explain something

63

for a few minutes, stop the recording.

64

I would share those videos with

my students, so they could learn

65

from me, but at their own paces.

66

They could, they could pause, they

could rewind, they could rewatch.

67

In class, I wasn't Standing up front,

trying to control their behavior.

68

Instead, I was sitting down with

them, getting to know them, building

69

relationships, doing the things I

wanted to do as a teacher, they could

70

move at their own paces through the

content and they could actually.

71

Learn things as they went, right?

72

They had to master lesson one

before they got to lesson two.

73

And so they were not just

being pushed along at my pace.

74

They were really learning,

understanding, enjoying learning.

75

I found this method of teaching, which

by the way, I didn't invent, I I, their

76

teachers have been doing this for decades.

77

I learned this from great colleagues.

78

I just put it together in

a way that works for me.

79

It worked great for me.

80

I shared it with colleagues,

a teacher downstairs from me.

81

Also loved teaching this way.

82

He's a bit more entrepreneurial

minded than I am.

83

So he said, we should share this.

84

We started a nonprofit organization

basically just to train a few

85

of our colleagues at our high

school in Washington, DC.

86

So in 2018, we trained eight

87

Elementary school, middle school, high

school teachers, all subjects, just

88

trying to use this model of videos,

self paced learning and students

89

achieving mastery before advancing

and, they were liking it in 20.

90

Our goal for 2020 was

to train 50 teachers.

91

COVID came, people saw us as a solution

to the challenges of COVID teaching.

92

And even though our approach was

designed for in person pre COVID

93

classroom, it helped a lot of teachers.

94

We ended up training 700 teachers in 2020.

95

We have a free online course,

which today has reached about 80,

96

000 teachers all over the world.

97

And we yeah we've grown since

then we work with teachers.

98

Primarily in the U.

99

S.,

100

but we've had, we've had teachers

from all over the world take our

101

programs, including many from Ireland.

102

And what we do is the same.

103

We help teachers go from a sort

of one lesson per day approach,

104

whole class approach, to a more

flexible, differentiated approach

105

that is more fun for teachers and

more effective for students too.

106

Fantastic.

107

It's really interesting that you started

all this before COVID COVID really

108

seemed to transform a lot of people

into using technology as a platform

109

for delivering the content and for

students to actually access content.

110

And you were, do you feel COVID

almost helped you along or was

111

it just a happy coincidence or

was it completely different?

112

I think COVID was a, it was a

terrible thing for the world

113

and for basically everything.

114

For the, from the perspective of my

organization's growth, which is a kind

115

of narrow and self centered perspective,

but from that perspective, it was good.

116

It brought a lot of teachers to us.

117

And I actually think there was

optimism in that moment for teachers

118

around the world who thought, look,

the way that we've been doing this

119

for a hundred years is not working.

120

COVID is going to force

our profession to evolve.

121

I feel that it did force a lot of

teachers to learn technology, to get

122

comfortable with it, to get creative,

but it almost went too far, and there

123

was too much technology in school.

124

And now we see a backlash technology

we use during COVID and it didn't work.

125

And so now we need to go

back to the traditional.

126

And what I think and what my organization

thinks is we shouldn't be all on

127

technology students should be on

screens, for a few minutes at a time,

128

like they shouldn't be looking at

screens all the time, but if you can

129

use the right amount of technology in

the right way, for instance, to replace

130

your live instruction with a video

that's really going to help you, right?

131

Teachers who use our approach feel

like they've cloned themselves.

132

They don't have that pressure to.

133

Put on our performance every

day because they have the video.

134

They can work closely with the

students, which is what they

135

want to do in the first place.

136

And so I think you, you said, in

the introduction trends in the U S I

137

think there was not much technology

before COVID, there was way too much

138

technology and now we're in post COVID.

139

Times we're trying to help teachers

realize, look, instruction is human.

140

It's about being face to face.

141

That's the whole purpose of schools.

142

But if you use technology in some

specific purposeful ways, your classes

143

are going to function a lot more smoothly

and your students will learn more too.

144

Exactly.

145

Exactly.

146

And that kind of, it's

an interesting thing.

147

It mirrors what happens, all over

the world, but certainly in Ireland

148

where before COVID, similarly,

there were pockets of good practice

149

when it came to technology.

150

Then COVID came and everyone

clamored, every company was trying

151

to offer their solution and we.

152

A lot of people just took on everything

and post, for want of a better term,

153

post COVID it's the same kind of thing.

154

Okay.

155

What, what actually works?

156

And I think it leads on to that

question I was getting you to

157

ponder on before we, we spoke on.

158

And it's something I

ponder on a lot which is.

159

I think technology can I wouldn't

say replace good teaching work, but

160

it certainly can enhance teacher

work, but also there's places where

161

technology just can't, I think you,

you just mentioned it there that

162

it can't actually replace teachers

because if it did, it probably should.

163

So what can technology do and

what can't it do in your opinion?

164

I think that's really the central

question of our organization.

165

And I think we are trying to

identify things that technology

166

can do better than humans to let

humans focus on what they do better.

167

One thing that a video can do really

well is repeat itself over and over.

168

So if I'm trying to explain a concept.

169

If I explain it one time in class

some of my students may be bored,

170

some may be lost, some may be

distracted, some may be absent.

171

And so what you end up doing as a

teacher is repeating the same concept

172

tens, hundreds, thousands of times in

hopes that your students will get it.

173

If you make a video for that now

you don't have to repeat yourself.

174

Your students can watch

it at their own paces.

175

They can pause.

176

Instead of having to raise their

hand in front of the class and ask a

177

question, they can just call you over.

178

You can answer that question.

179

They can watch at home.

180

They can watch with their families.

181

That's such a powerful tool.

182

And it lets you do something which

computers can't, which is sit

183

down with your student, get to

know them, build a relationship.

184

Motivate them.

185

That's what I think teachers should

really spend their time doing and

186

personally, that's why I became a teacher.

187

I didn't become a teacher because I

wanted to stand in front of a room

188

of young people and control their

behavior, but I had to do that when

189

I was giving one lesson at a time.

190

Once I stopped doing that and all

I did, by the way, is just move

191

my direct instruction, right?

192

If I was going to stand at the

board for 15 minutes, I could do

193

a video probably in five minutes

that would explain the same thing.

194

So it's not a huge change.

195

The students are on the computer

for five minutes, but it's profound

196

in terms of what it makes possible

in terms of relationships and

197

students moving at their own paces.

198

And so that sort of thing, a computer

can do well, of course, if you have.

199

Self paced learning, where

different learners are working on

200

different things at the same time.

201

You probably also need a

computer to organize that, right?

202

To have a checklist or a learning

management system or something.

203

But really, aside from that

education is a human endeavor.

204

That's why we go to schools.

205

So we can work with students and

students can work with each other.

206

And I think, let technology, let my video.

207

Give the direct instruction.

208

Let me spend my time working

closely with students.

209

And it's what I want for my kids

too, I don't want my kids going

210

to school and staring at a screen.

211

I also don't want my kids going to

school and being totally bored when

212

the teacher's lecturing at them, I want

them to sit down with the teacher, get

213

to know the teacher, work with their

classmates, and videos make that possible.

214

And it seems like such a simple kind of

idea just as simply having their teachers

215

in their classroom, but their teacher

is also a almost virtual to them, but

216

there how does that, how have students

reacted to, having their teacher on the

217

screen, but also at the same time in their

classroom, did they find it, did they get

218

a kick out of that or how does it work?

219

Yeah, at first, I think they get

a real kick out of it they react

220

like you, but wait a second, Mr.

221

Barnett, this is you on the video, and

you're here, and as a teacher, it's weird,

222

because, you might walk around the room,

and you hear your voice coming through

223

all these computers, it's definitely

weird at first, students, they often

224

are confused by it, it's different,

right, students Students like to go to

225

school, sit in the corner, be left alone

and listen to the teacher and, that's

226

easy, but school shouldn't be easy.

227

Learning is hard, right?

228

Students should be made to engage.

229

And so sometimes it takes a little

while to get students to buy into this

230

idea that you're not just going to come

sit in the corner and learn from me.

231

You gotta go get a computer.

232

You gotta watch the video.

233

You gotta practice what

you learned in the video.

234

You have to improve your understanding.

235

But once students get

it, once that clicks.

236

Which could be a day for some students,

a week, a month for other students.

237

Um, it's profound also because they feel

like, okay, I'm not going to show up and

238

get forced by my teacher through content

I already understand or I'm not prepared

239

to understand or I missed Monday's lesson

so on Tuesday I'm totally confused.

240

They feel like I'm going to come in,

I'm going to pick up where I left off.

241

If I want, I can keep learning

at home really easily.

242

And my teacher is here to

support me, to help me learn.

243

Before I was teaching like this,

I felt every day I had to go

244

put on some great performance.

245

Once I had this model up and running, I

felt I show up to school and I help my

246

students learn and that was really cool.

247

That's very interesting.

248

And I, so what I'm getting so far is that

the students in your class you, they're

249

watching a video of the instruction.

250

So I know you're a math teacher and

so you might be delivering a concept.

251

I don't know.

252

I, everyone thinks of algebra when

they think of second level math.

253

So I will stick with that.

254

So you're teaching, you're giving

a direct instruction, let's say

255

in quadratic equations, because

that's what everybody thinks too.

256

And so student watches you,

you're in the classroom.

257

What happens after the video?

258

Do you have a.

259

A bunch of online questions or is it

book based questions or is how does the

260

actual practice happen and how, where

do you come into that as a human, the

261

human you rather than the video you.

262

Yeah great question.

263

So students can watch the

videos in class or at home.

264

It doesn't, it doesn't really matter.

265

It's flexible in that way.

266

But in my class and what I recommend to

the teachers we train is make your video

267

five or 10 minutes, no more than that,

because students will lose, lose attention

268

and have the students do something

while they watch the video, right?

269

That might be answer questions

that pop up in the video that

270

might be taking notes after that.

271

Close the computer, do something on

paper, do something face to face.

272

So in a math class, I'd say

once you finish the video, look

273

around, find someone else who's

at the same place as you are.

274

Here's some practice problems.

275

It might be a worksheet.

276

It might be problems from the

textbook, like work together on that.

277

If my video explains how to graph

a quadratic function, here's

278

a page of practice problems.

279

Work with your classmate

until you understand it.

280

And then if you have questions,

let me know, I'm here to help.

281

Once you feel ready, once you

feel you understand it, I'm going

282

to give you a mastery check.

283

I'm going to give you one problem

to graph a quadratic function.

284

If you do this right, I'm going

to say, great, you understand it.

285

Move on to exponential

functions or whatever.

286

If you don't get it right,

I'm going to say, hold on.

287

Before you move on to the next

thing, let's make sure you get this.

288

Go back to the video.

289

Come sit with me.

290

Go speak to Simon.

291

Simon mastered this yesterday.

292

Let's make sure you get it.

293

Try again before you move on.

294

So often in the traditional school,

a student misses Lesson 1, but then

295

we push them to Lesson 2 anyways,

and they can't understand it.

296

Of course they can't understand it.

297

You shouldn't understand Lesson 2 if you

don't understand Lesson 1, because If you

298

did less than one would be meaningless.

299

We need to make sure students

are moving at that foundation.

300

It's hard to know.

301

I can't give it can't give time for this.

302

Cause part of the whole purpose is

students take the time they need.

303

But on average, in my class student

watches a five to 10 minute video that

304

might take 15 to 20 minutes with getting

set up, getting the headphones, taking

305

the notes, whatever, and they spent

30, 45 minutes, an hour doing practice.

306

Yeah, with classmates, they take

the mastery check, which takes 5

307

minutes and then they go back and

revise or the or they move on.

308

And there's some management that

needs to be figured out there.

309

You need good systems to know who's

working on what and make sure students

310

understand the road map after this.

311

I do this.

312

But once you have that down,

I think of the class almost

313

like a university library.

314

Some students will be

watching videos on their own.

315

Some students will be

working together on practice.

316

Some students will be sitting

with me to get feedback.

317

Some students are

demonstrating their mastery.

318

It's dynamic, but every student

is appropriately challenged.

319

And appropriately supported every day.

320

It's a great dynamic for a classroom

because again, we've had the same types of

321

classroom for, nearly 200 years where the

teacher is at the top of the classroom.

322

The students are all, effectively,

more or less, working at the

323

same thing at the same time.

324

And I think, technology is.

325

enabled us to differentiate

better and give children

326

more individualized learning.

327

But this is something in between all

that a little bit where, you know

328

you've it's self paced, but you've, it's

almost like you've got two teachers in

329

the room, but they're the same person.

330

It's a really interesting thing.

331

And one of the things I was, when

we were emailing, you said something

332

that really hit me was how technology

makes classrooms feel more human

333

or where it can make technology.

334

Where technology can make

classrooms feel more human.

335

And I'm just, it really struck me as

a really interesting turn of phrase.

336

And I think I understand what you mean

just from what you've been talking about,

337

but maybe you could expand on that.

338

How does technology make

classrooms now feel more human?

339

Yeah and by the way, it's not

two teachers in the classroom.

340

If you got 20 students,

it's 21 teachers, right?

341

Because they can all watch my video.

342

And there I am.

343

And actually, by the way, when students

have a bit more flexibility, they

344

can ask each other for help freely.

345

Right?

346

When I'm standing at the board giving

a lesson with no technology, It's

347

not a very human experience for

students, because I'm basically saying

348

be quiet and listen to me, right?

349

It's not high quality interaction.

350

We don't build relationships.

351

They don't build

relationships with each other.

352

They're, my job is to control their

behavior and their job is to comply.

353

When I moved to this approach where

students are moving at their own pace

354

with instruction through the video,

all of a sudden I spend my time

355

sitting down with students, getting

to know them, building relationships.

356

I could say, Hey, how's your math?

357

And by the way, did you

see the game last night?

358

What are you doing this weekend?

359

How's your brother doing?

360

It's so much more of that.

361

And students are doing

that with each other too.

362

Because there is only one of me.

363

If there are 20 students, they can't

all wait to get help from me, right?

364

So one person is sitting there and

saying, okay, let me find someone else.

365

Let me ask them for help, and so it's

that university library again, right?

366

It's me working closely with students

working closely with one another.

367

That's very human.

368

That's very meaningful.

369

When I think of my time in

school, I sat through hours and

370

hours of teachers talking at me.

371

Not very interesting.

372

What I liked was Being in the

library with my friends and studying

373

together and or staying after

class to speak with the teacher.

374

But why should you have to stay after

class to meet one on one with the teacher?

375

You should do that in class.

376

And so that's what I mean about,

how do you make sure that the

377

teacher spends the highest possible

percentage of their time in class

378

interacting closely with students?

379

I think technology is

what makes that possible.

380

Yeah, no it's fascinating.

381

And it strikes me that, you mentioned

there about the relationship building

382

that you do now or that you can

do more effectively, what does.

383

Like your average classroom

is certainly in Ireland.

384

I don't know what it's like over there,

but it's a lot of it's crowd control.

385

We have massive class sizes.

386

You've one teacher.

387

We don't have teaching

assistants in the main.

388

So you've won one adult and,

maybe 25 to 30 children in a room.

389

And with All the various needs

and different abilities, language

390

abilities, all those sort of

things, all mixed up into one place.

391

So it's much more complex, let's

say, than even it was a generation

392

ago when I started teaching.

393

And relationships, relationship building

seems to be the thing that You know,

394

helps people along to to, you, you

don't have do you find that, let's say

395

the level of disruption, the level of

like the, negative behaviors and things

396

like that, they're just vastly reduced

by this technique or, has, is it.

397

How does a classroom look now?

398

I don't know about vastly reduced,

young people are young people, but

399

that was certainly my experience in

American public schools too, me, 30

400

kids on the roster, maybe that means

there are 25 in class one day or 20,

401

cause absenteeism was a big issue.

402

But when I trained to be a

teacher, I learned a lot of kind

403

of behavior management techniques.

404

And I think the theory was if

you can get kids to comply.

405

You can engage them in learning, and

I think that's totally backwards.

406

The best way to get kids to

comply is to engage them, right?

407

The best form of classroom

management is engaging instruction.

408

If I'm trying to give a, a

lesson to all my students, and

409

some students already know it.

410

They're going to be goofing off, right?

411

I would goof off as a student if

there was nothing for me to learn.

412

If I was if students aren't prepared

to understand it, because I'm on

413

Lesson 3, but they were absent for

Lesson 1 and 2, they're going to put

414

their head down on their desk, right?

415

They can't learn.

416

And so I think, oftentimes, Bad behaviors

come from students being disengaged

417

or not challenged or not supported.

418

I think every young person shows

up to school wanting to learn.

419

They just act out when they don't feel

like they can learn because it's nothing

420

new or it's too hard or they're confused.

421

And of course, like when you step

down from the front of the room and

422

you give students more freedom, Yes,

students don't always, they're not

423

always perfect scholars, but when

students are engaged, they behave and.

424

I always felt like when I was standing

in the front of the room, I would get

425

into these awful behavior showdowns, or

I would say, Simon, put your phone down

426

and the student Simon would say, no.

427

And it's what am I going to do?

428

Call the principal?

429

Principal's not calling.

430

So now.

431

If I'm walking around the room to

sit down with my students and I see

432

that, student called Simon, my son is

called Simon, by the way, I see that

433

student called Simon is on the phone.

434

Instead of learning, I don't

have to call him out in front

435

of the whole class, right?

436

I don't have to do this horrible

thing where I say, make sure

437

your phones are put away.

438

I just walk up to him and I

say, Hey, Simon, what's up?

439

I'd love to see you learning and

he'll probably say, instead of being

440

defiant because he's been called

out in front of his classmates,

441

he'll say, Oh, yeah, you're right.

442

Sorry.

443

Let me put the phone away.

444

So it's more engaging.

445

It's students behave better because

they're more engaged and it's

446

easier to correct misbehavior

when you are flexible versus when

447

you're trying to, do crowd control.

448

Yeah, exactly.

449

No that, that makes sense.

450

I meant to ask you one

question just around the video.

451

How important is it that it's you, the

class teacher who's on the video, as

452

opposed to, let's say, a randomer who

makes it, who develops the same content?

453

So you're trying to teach a

maths concept and that, I've

454

created something over here.

455

How important is it that it's the actual

class teacher that creates the video?

456

It depends on the teacher and

it depends on the students.

457

I think the random video, It's

already much better than the

458

whole class live explanation.

459

And so if your students like videos

you find on YouTube and you find

460

good videos on YouTube, go with that.

461

For me, I felt like my

students liked my videos.

462

It felt personal.

463

Remember, so much of this

is about the human touch.

464

And also, I knew like my school had

certain initiatives around our priorities,

465

and I knew the things my students

were interested in when I taught math.

466

And so I thought I can create

videos that relate to my students

467

and fit in with other sort of

instructional strategies at the school.

468

To me, it was worth the investment

to create my own videos.

469

And it's not a financial investment,

by the way, all you need is a computer.

470

It's just an investment of time.

471

Yeah, I felt like if I take, if I take.

472

An hour after school to create two

videos, then I'll have these as long as

473

I teach, I won't need to do it again.

474

My students will appreciate it.

475

Great.

476

But sometimes, couldn't stay after school.

477

And so I would find a video from

YouTube and I would show my students

478

and sometimes they'd say, wow,

that Khan Academy guy is so boring.

479

And sometimes they would say, wow,

that Khan Academy guy is really clear.

480

He's way better than you, Mr.

481

Barnett.

482

So that variety is useful sometimes too.

483

Yeah, true.

484

Like even having a different, it's like

having a different perspective, which

485

kind of leads me on to the, one of my last

questions before I ask you the last one.

486

It's really, AI has become.

487

Fairly transformative over here

in Ireland already with, a number

488

of teachers now using it for

planning and preparation and so on.

489

But what's really becoming quite

interesting is video through AI.

490

Being able to make engaging videos

without actually having to video anyone.

491

It's like text to video or so on.

492

Is this something that you think is

going to help with what you're doing?

493

Or is it, do you still, do you think

it will take away that human feel?

494

So it's funny you say that I'm actually

working on a, on an AI tool of my

495

own, which I'm calling InstaLesson.

496

And the idea is.

497

I find a lot of these AI tools to

be difficult to figure out how to

498

use, there's so many tools, and

what they produce is often not that

499

effective because what they produce

is a whole class lesson and I don't

500

believe in whole class instruction.

501

The tool I'm building called InstaLesson,

it, you type in a topic and it produces

502

exactly what I've talked about.

503

It finds a video from YouTube.

504

It gives students practice activities

they can do together and it includes

505

a mastery check and I'm biased, but

I think it's super simple to use.

506

It's free.

507

I think the output's really good.

508

So that's my tool.

509

And so I said, and I do think it can save

teachers planning time in creating not a

510

perfect lesson but a pretty good lesson.

511

In terms of AI created

videos I have my eye on that.

512

I think it's.

513

I think it's promising and it

could work once the technology's

514

there, if teachers are comfortable

with an AI generated video.

515

Great.

516

I think what I'm really thinking

about a lot is how does the

517

student spend their time in class?

518

Sorry, how does the teacher

spend their time in class?

519

And how do we ensure that the student

spends their time appropriately

520

challenged and appropriately supported?

521

I don't love AI programs

that keep students on screen.

522

Talking with the chat bot, I don't

like, I want students to get what

523

they need from the computer, close

the computer and work together.

524

But if AI helps the teacher create a

video or a mastery check or an Insta

525

lesson, so the teacher can spend

human time with students and the

526

students are challenged and supported.

527

Great.

528

Fantastic.

529

No, that's, that makes loads of sense.

530

So I think I could talk to you for.

531

Hours more on this side.

532

There's so much.

533

I really just love that methodology

that you've come up with and

534

how it's working so well.

535

And before I leave you, I, we have a

thing on this podcast where we ask every

536

guest what they would do if they were

the Minister for Education in Ireland.

537

So I'm going to you.

538

Get a plane over to you, transport you

over to Ireland, and you're going to be

539

in charge of the education system for

one day where you can change one thing.

540

It doesn't have to relate

to technology, but it can.

541

So what would you do if you

were the Minister for Education?

542

I've never been to Ireland

and I'd love to come visit.

543

Although being the minister,

it sounds stressful.

544

What I would do, and I say this knowing

very little about your education system

545

is I would get rid of age based education.

546

I think.

547

The fundamental problem is that we

expect everyone who's six years old to

548

learn the same thing at the same time.

549

And I think we do that because

we believe it's efficient.

550

The teacher will explain, will give

this lesson Monday, this lesson

551

Tuesday, this lesson Wednesday.

552

But those six year olds or ten

year olds or whatever year old,

553

they all have different needs.

554

They all need different things.

555

When I think about my kids, I don't want

them to learn what an average six year

556

old is supposed to learn on February 18th.

557

I want them to learn what is next for

them in the progression of learning.

558

They may be ahead of the pace,

they may be behind the pace,

559

they may be right on pace.

560

I don't care.

561

I don't want them to be

Educated based on their age.

562

I want them to be educated based on

their needs and their interests and

563

their abilities and who they are.

564

And so I think we're at a point where

we could, I'm not saying we put five

565

year olds in the class with 15 year

olds, we can still have primary schools

566

and secondary schools, but within

those schools, I think we should think

567

about, can we be grouping students

and giving them curriculum based on

568

their needs instead of their age?

569

That's what I want for my kids.

570

And if I can come to Ireland and put

that into place, maybe I'll move.

571

That would be amazing.

572

It's interesting because I mentioned

there earlier on the, that schools have

573

really changed relatively little in

their structure for the last 200 years.

574

And I think the missing ingredient

of having technology to help

575

us along, because a model like.

576

You're proposing it?

577

I it's something that I've heard a

little bit about and there's definitely

578

movement towards it is really expensive.

579

So technology in a way to almost

make that affordable for governments,

580

I think is definitely worth it.

581

There's definitely a movement in that

where there's a, I dunno if you've heard

582

of the democratic schools movement.

583

I dunno if it's reached the

States, but in Europe it's becoming

584

something interesting for children.

585

Decide themselves what

they're going to be learning.

586

And there's a democratic process.

587

It's really interesting.

588

So we're going to finish up now but

where can people find you if they want

589

to reach out to you and learn a little

bit more about what you're doing?

590

Of course, modern classrooms

project is a nonprofit organization.

591

We make all of our materials

available for free.

592

And so if you go to modern classrooms.

593

org.

594

You can find everything you need.

595

I've just written a book.

596

It's called Meet Every Learner's

Needs, and you can find more

597

at meeteverylearnersneeds.

598

org.

599

And then if you want to try this

in a way that's pretty accessible,

600

you should check out InstaLesson.

601

It's insta lesson.

602

com.

603

It's also free to use.

604

Might give you some ideas to get started.

605

So I hope that gives your listeners

enough, at least to get started.

606

Absolutely.

607

Rob, thank you so much for talking to me.

608

I really enjoyed the conversation

and the very, very best of luck with

609

all the projects as you're involved

in your, you seem like a really

610

innovative and interesting teacher

and good luck with everything else.

611

I'm sure we'll be hearing more

projects and please do keep in touch.

612

So that.

613

Was Rob Barnett from the Modern

Classroom Project as well as InstaLesson.

614

And I will put all the links

to all the things that Rob has

615

mentioned to me in our show notes.

616

Thanks so much.

617

Thank you.

618

So there you have it, a really

interesting concept I think for

619

sure that Rob has come up with.

620

It's a very simple thing, I suppose on

the surface, I'm sure there's more to it,

621

just around having a video instruction

so that you as the teacher can then spend

622

some time spend your time more effectively

going around the class, building the

623

relationships up with the pupils and if,

and the instruction is always there for

624

them to see in school, outside of school.

625

And I do the idea, I'm tickled, by

the idea that it's your own teacher

626

who's on the video at the time.

627

I know Rob said it doesn't have to be but,

an interesting way where you can build up

628

those relationships and save that time.

629

Because, one thing we all can agree on is

we don't have a lot of time and I'm really

630

interested in some of his other Ideas

out there especially that Insta lesson.

631

I like, there's plenty of these lesson

planners that you can do with AI, but

632

this one does seem to be a bit more

targeted towards a particular learner.

633

So do check that out.

634

As I said, all of the links that

Rob mentioned are on the show notes.

635

And I trust you will look at them.

636

Those another link you might consider

is subscribing to my newsletter.

637

I'm also interested in using AI and

I've developed a very short course

638

which is completely free to all of

our listeners and anyone else really

639

for that matter to show you how you

can code using AI without doing any

640

coding, it's called code without coding.

641

And you can find that

too in the show notes.

642

That's it for me for this week.

643

Thanks so much for listening

all the very, very best.

644

Take care.

645

Bye bye.