Shownotes
Too many trades and construction business owners ignore their accounting until tax season hits, then spend days manually entering receipts from shoeboxes instead of using technology that does it automatically.
We tackle the business operations side that gets pushed aside when you're busy doing the work that actually gets you paid.
Steve reveals his manual QuickBooks process while Brad walks through why people fail to pay themselves properly, the three different rates you should be charging as owner-operator-CEO, and how to stop leaving money on the table with bad estimating.
We explore tactics for building overhead into quotes without overcomplicating the math, why technology like receipt scanning apps can save days of work, and how understanding your customer's busy season changes your sales follow-up game completely.
Highlights:
Highlights
- Why paying yourself only after everything else is taken care of means you're getting a fraction of what you're worth instead of paying yourself first.
- How to calculate what you actually need to charge by separating your field labor hours from your CEO hours from your ownership compensation
- Why most jobs are quoted wrong because overhead and profitability aren't properly estimated into the numbers.
- The garage door company example where tactical empathy in follow-up messaging closed the deal after understanding their busy season.
- Why seven touches before giving up beats three attempts, but only if you change your approach when the message isn't landing.
Subscribe to Blue Collar BS for practical advice on running your business better. If you're still using shoeboxes and spreadsheets to track your money, this episode is for you.
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Transcripts
Here you go.
Brad Herda (:Hey everybody, welcome back to this episode of Blue Collar BS. I am the word of the year 2026 Blue Collar BS, Brad and my cohost is.
Doyle (:you
Doyle (:Steve.
Brad Herda (:Brad was the most used name in 20 most used word in 2026 on the blue color BS podcast. According to Riverside highlights. According to the other side. Yep. Exactly. So, today's episode is going to be a little bit of fun, a little bit of pick on Steve and, and a little bit and a little bit. Uh, I think what many entrepreneurs and small business owners face, particularly in the home services construction trades world,
Doyle (:According to Riverside, Brad, Brad, Brad, A lot of pick on Steve, because, know.
Brad Herda (:is the accounting and business operations side of things because we're too busy doing the shit that we're supposed to get us paid that we forget about all the other things that can make life very miserable come January, February as we prepare for taxes. let's just talk about that for a minute,
Doyle (:Yep.
Doyle (:Correct.
Doyle (:Yeah, let's why don't we, Brad? Why why why don't we?
Brad Herda (:Why don't we just talk about what you were telling me about your frustrations of your accounting prep. How clean is your accounting right now, Steve?
Doyle (:You
It's.
My accounting is super clean, Brad. Super clean. I know where everything is. I got a shoebox. I got a shoebox. All my receipts go in it.
Brad Herda (:Right. It's like, I got a shoe box. got the savings account. I'm good.
Doyle (:Yeah, I'm good. All my receipts go in there. And then at the end of the year, I have all my statements and I have all my receipts and I put them all together.
Brad Herda (:I'm almost sure.
Brad Herda (:my gosh, and you said you're using QuickBooks, right?
Doyle (:Yeah, I am using QuickBooks. QuickBooks Online, Brad.
Brad Herda (:Yeah, and did you know? Did you know? Did you know that you could connect your bank accounts and your credit cards to there so it brings everything in automatically and you didn't...
Doyle (:I mean, my bank account's connected to it.
Brad Herda (:Did you know you can connect credit cards as well?
Doyle (:Yeah, I don't have my credit cards connected to it. No, Brad. actually actually Brad you found out you know right before you hit record that I do not have a credit card attached to my QuickBooks. So you know thanks for doing the show on this so you know. Yeah.
Brad Herda (:So, so.
Brad Herda (:You
Brad Herda (:But did you know you can?
idor for lunch in February of: Doyle (:Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Brad Herda (:It would just come in, travels, meal and entertainment, whatever you're gonna classify, hit, they're done, poof, off you go.
Doyle (:that that you know, that would probably save me. at least a day, if not, maybe two.
Brad Herda (:And you know what? And you might be saying, well, shit, this is horrible. Why would I do that? You know what? If you were to set the card up, I believe you can go back up to two years of transactions to pull in. So if you decide to set up your card today, like after we get done recording and saying, hey, let me attach my credit card and it's going to say, well, how far back would you like me to try to pull data? I believe you can go pull data up to two years, depending upon your credit card.
Doyle (:Hmm.
Doyle (:Yeah.
Doyle (:Yeah, I'm just going to pull data current so that I don't mess anything up.
Brad Herda (:You could pull 2025 data.
Doyle (:Well, I'm just going to enter it all in. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it the way I know how, damn it. Listen here, Linda.
Brad Herda (:Now you're talking like a boomer. Now you're talking like the old guy doesn't want to learn about technology and you're the millennial of the group. So this is a problem.
Doyle (:Millennial. Yeah. Yep. Yep.
Brad Herda (:You're the technology guy of this, this, of this twosome here.
Doyle (:Yeah, I tend I can be on this because I turned a blind eye when my wife set it up and like you're the accountant you set it up and now I'm taking care of it all. Because I'm taking care of it now.
Brad Herda (:So then why are you doing it if she set it up? Why is she not taking care of it? Why is she not taking care of
Doyle (:Lots of annoyance and frustration. you know, when
Brad Herda (:like because you didn't hook up your credit card to it.
Doyle (:No, I didn't set it up initially.
Brad Herda (:Like because because you weren't sending her the receipts on time. So therefore she wasn't going to do the work
Doyle (:no, the receipts are in the she can go into the she can go into the shoebox over there and get the receipts out. I this I did know I know where you're going with this. Yeah, there is a there is an app but.
Brad Herda (:shoebox? Because did you know? Did you know that there's this thing, it's called an app, and it's on a smartphone, I'm sorry, a smart mobile device. And you can actually hit the app on QuickBooks and take a picture of the receipt and it will automatically upload the receipts.
Doyle (:out
Doyle (:You know? I do have a receipt from today.
Brad Herda (:And you could scan that and it'll go there and it'll show up.
Doyle (:I do. You know, I should learn how to do this for today. I should. I should learn how to do this. I should on myself. I should all over myself, don't I?
Brad Herda (:You should. You should learn how to do this. And you should stop shooting on yourself and just go ahead and do it.
Brad Herda (:Because finances for and I'm sure you've run into this with your clients. I've run into it all the time with my clients is the finance side is usually the place where it is the least taken care of because you you are of the same elk. Well, somebody will set it up and I'll just deal with it. I'll take care of it. I'll take care of it tomorrow. Oh, I know I got to do all this work, but I'll take care of it tomorrow. Oh, now it's going to take me way too long. So I'll just put in the back burner until I have to. Oh, shit.
Doyle (:Correct.
Doyle (:Yep.
Doyle (:huh.
Brad Herda (:Now you get taxes ready and now it's it's January and man. So now what do I gotta do for January? Whereas I on the other hand, I've already pulled by 2025 all my invoices for internet and television and phone and All my fuel invoices my fuel receipts are all entered and
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Doyle (:Well, aren't you just special? You are a hedge, so good for you. So good for you.
Brad Herda (:All those things. Absolutely, am on top. Yes, I am ahead this year. My intent is.
But you need the leverage technology in your accounting software and your accounting systems to do it and as much as it's gonna be a pain in the ass and Throwing it throwing all the receipts on your dashboard of your van is a bad idea. Just Take the picture with the snapshot do the whatever and get rid of the paper
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Doyle (:I like that idea. I am going to I am not going to shit all over myself and I'm going to go do that. So that's my 2026. My. You know, as of today, January 9th, 2026, that's what I'm going to do starting January 10th.
Brad Herda (:you
Brad Herda (:All right, cool. So what are other operational things that many SMB, small business owners and particularly in the trades or manufacturing where they fail on a business side of things? have you, all the things have you seen? Cause you were a prime example of just using the accounting system in general. And it was easy target for me to pick on you. like I'll take, and I'll take the softball and swing. I'm good.
Doyle (:Hmm
Doyle (:Mm hmm. Yeah, I was. Yeah. You'll take the softball and swing.
Honestly, the next point that I actually see people fall down on is still on the business on the accounting side, but it's when do they actually take a profit for themselves?
Brad Herda (:explain explain a little further for me.
Doyle (:you know, pull for themselves.
so we could break this down in a couple of different ways. if you're truly, you know, let's let's just say you're the CEO of your carpentry business, but you're also doing the work yourself, right? You're self-employed. You're an actual laborer.
Brad Herda (:Okay, so I'm running a company and I am an hourly employee as well. Okay?
Doyle (:Mm hmm. Yep. Most people play that pay themselves a rate after everything is already taken care of. Whatever after everything is done. They will pay themselves. And it's usually a fraction of what they're worth. Because they didn't pay themselves first.
Brad Herda (:That's the profit first approach. Mr. Mike McKenna, it's great book.
Doyle (:Correct. But I do see that. I do see that quite a bit. The other thing that I see is. You know, there's there's kind of those those different tiers of performance, especially when you own the business and you're working in your business. So there's a rate and when you're quote unquote doing the work that has an hourly rate. Or it has a fee associated with it.
Brad Herda (:Mm-hmm.
Doyle (:when you're the CEO of the company that has a different rate. Typically it's high. Usually it's higher. Well, should be higher.
Brad Herda (:Mm-hmm Should be That's will be the plan because you're taking on all the strategic risk all the things all the all the money risks all the stuff all the things
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
But then there's a third one. Are you actually the owner? Of the company which has a different rate. That you pay. And some people would be surprised. They're like, well, wait, I just thought I you know, I just get paid. You know I go out. I do the work. This is what I charge for my hourly rate and that's what I get paid. But you're leaving money on the table because you own that you own the business and you are also the CEO of your business.
Brad Herda (:correct.
Doyle (:So what you pay yourself should be a different than what you traditionally might think of as your hourly rate.
Brad Herda (:Okay, it, all right. I'm gonna open up Pandora's box here. We're gonna go down Pandora's. So are you implying then that...
Doyle (:Hahaha!
Aren't what? You're really you.
Brad Herda (:jobs aren't being quoted properly?
Doyle (:What? How on earth would I... Why would I even say that?
Brad Herda (:Is that an implication? Are you trying to imply that as kind of through a different ways and means here?
Doyle (:Now, why would I even imply that? The short answer is yes, 100 % I am 100 % that when we are estimating our work, we are truly not estimating everything out correctly, especially when it comes out to our overhead and profitability.
Brad Herda (:I'm just asking a question, no reason for you to be asked.
Okay.
Brad Herda (:Okay, so what would be one or two possible solutions for somebody listening to the show to maybe start implementing? There might be a good, better, best. There might be something that's super easy that'll get me closer, but it might not be accurate. What are some of the things that you might suggest?
Doyle (:you
Doyle (:Hmm.
Doyle (:Well, that's a you're asking you. That's a great question that you're asking. I'm probably not the best one to answer that, because I'm I don't always. I know you got an answer. I know you got an answer. My answer is going to be a little bit more generic because you know, I don't always get into those nitty gritty of details of things weird.
Brad Herda (:I'm just curious because I got an answer in my mind, but I just...
Brad Herda (:Really? Like connecting your credit card to QuickBooks? Wow, I would. Those are details, nitty gritty details.
Doyle (:Listen, listen. Those are those are details. You are correct. Those are details. Check. Anyways, anyways, I am more of a I don't like to do a blanket sweeping statement.
Brad Herda (:you
Doyle (:But when we get down into it, I'm not necessarily quote on, you somebody that's going to get down right to the right down to the nickel and say, hey, we need to increase our percentage by five point three two percent. And, know, that's going to cover that's at least going to cover this for a man. We need to increase it by this. I am more of a hate. No, let's take a let's take a broader stroke because I know there's additional things, rounding errors and things like that. Look, we really need if if.
We're truly looking at this. We need to be adding at least another 10 to 15 points or percent on top of things to account for stuff. And so we can back ourselves into that number. And some people will be like, that's a big, that's a big increase. Well, when you actually start breaking down and looking at all of your, all of your other expenses that you haven't accounted for in your business, it truly starts to come up and you're like, crap.
I do actually need to have a plan.
Brad Herda (:So you're getting into that so you're getting into the overhead conversation from that perspective Okay, I was fair so for me I was gonna try to go into that that hourly rate perspective how you're breaking down the Because I think the overhead adjustment will get you into your ownership dollars Right so that overhead adjustment will will equate to opportunity from an ownership dollar perspective for sure
Doyle (:Correct. Correct.
Doyle (:Hmm.
Doyle (:Correct.
Doyle (:Correct.
Brad Herda (:But my suggestion would be that, Hey, Mr. Mr. Electrician, Mr. Fabric Weld Shop owner. If you're planning on being on the floor or out in the field 30 hours a week, and you want to pay yourself $38 an hour, cool plan on that. But the extra 20 hours a week that you're doing, you should be putting into your numbers that extra 20 hours a week across all your estimates.
50 to $75 an hour as the owner of the organization to at least at least cover your direct labor for yourself and not piss all over yourself along the way and and devalue yourself and you're gonna go oh shit I don't know if I can win that order that number well then you better start figuring out how to differentiate yourself if you think you have to compete on price then you have a different problem and mindset that we need
Doyle (:Yes.
Doyle (:Yes.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm. 100%.
Brad Herda (:I think if you can at least say my direct labor is this, my indirect labor hours this, but I got to cover all my hours so I can get paid for everything. Go forward or if you want to blend it out and do the ratio, you want to do the math, great. Then blend it out at a fixed number at you for 50 hours a week instead of 70 that you're actually working or whatever.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:Okay, what about on the sales side? Sales or quoting or estimating or other things? What do you see?
Doyle (:gosh, there's so many that I mean, that's like the Wild West, right? There's there's so many things out there to start to rain rain all of that in. But there's also some other things that. You know, the smart smarter companies are actually taken into account, and they'll actually they'll actually put, hey, we you know, there are. A certain.
percent fee that they'll actually put on their their quote to cover other factors that are outside of market conditions. some companies will put a 10 percent, 10 points on or 10 percent on the overall number to cover. Let's just say it would cover for tariffs. If because that would be something that comes up, they can't control, but it's something that's put in there.
Brad Herda (:You're right.
Doyle (:Now, some companies will also line item that out and say, hey, if in the event this happens, this goes up to this covers this, this comes off at the end if it never happened. So there's that level of that it covers everything upfront so that you're not left having an awkward, we had to stop work because we're underwater because we misquoted.
So I've seen some companies actually do that and do that smartly where they're actually trying to take care of some of those things they can't control.
Brad Herda (:I mean when I was running my back in my purchasing days and having to deal with heat treat and Heat treat yes, you know You know we're doing Carburization on our gearing down to 250,000 case case steps and things like that. So things that furnaces for a really long time and and when we were going through a bunch of natural gas problems and things like that
Doyle (:Heat treat.
I do know.
Doyle (:They do.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:There was this massive increase that came along and like, Hey, time out. Where's this baseline coming from? What's our baseline? Is it, is it $2 a term? Is it Ford out? What's our baseline number? I'm okay from here, but let's establish a baseline and play with the variable. And we're going to adjust the variable quarterly. And if we need to change baseline every two years, then we'll change the baseline every two years. I'm cool with that, but let's just put some structure behind and not just be caught up like
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Doyle (:Yep.
Yep.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Doyle (:Right. Yep.
Brad Herda (:many people did in 2021, 2022 with all the inflation, all the things, massive price increases. We'll attribute it to inflation and labor. OK, and now is there some backward shifting? There is a little bit of shifting, but there's not a lot of price changing.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm. Mm.
Brad Herda (:Right. So it's like, OK, great. So those operational opportunities from that, I think, are really, really good. One of the things and we had him on our show that I think organizations, particularly in the home services and or places that can do I needed to be there to do something visually.
But I don't need to make the drive. I don't have to have people on the road all the time is using technology. you know, whether you're a roofer and you're using some of the three modeling and things for taking pictures of your roof to estimate the square footed squares needed, et cetera, provide accurate coding, or you're using a tool like live switch when we had them on the show to use the technology to make it easier to, to work with your customer, to not have to have a service call, do those things.
Doyle (:Yep. Yep.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:get 10 to 15 more service calls done in a week to create operational efficiencies. Technology is out there to make, to be your friend, to replace people. Because if I have, if my service techs are doing more billable hours, I'm going to make more money than a service tech driving to the next place to go do a quote that I'm not going to get paid for.
Doyle (:Right.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Correct.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:Whereas I could put that service tech into an actual paid position, paid hours, align the route so it makes sense to minimize windshield time of dead miles and all those things to see some massive increases to your gross margin and bottom line if you decide to get invested in technology.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:Operation is one of those areas and then just on the quote side in the follow up. What is your follow up methodology Mr Doyle?
Did I say that out loud? I'm sorry.
Doyle (:up and wait, let's go. You did say that out loud. You did say that out loud. You did. Yeah, you absolutely did. Depends on what it is and who it is. Sometimes I don't need to follow up. They just were done and we take care of it. Other times it's a gut feel. Like I will. No, so.
Let, you know, if somebody calls me.
Brad Herda (:You know, it's like seven touches before somebody even comes close to being able to yes or no.
Doyle (:Yeah, yeah, I'm more of a yes, correct. Right, so some sometimes you might be reaching out. I always laugh at the people that reach out for sales for me and it's like 123 and you know they're they're gone after three. And I like to play with people so some by by about this like if somebody actually makes it to the 7th one, I'll actually reward them just with a with with a conversation back. Hey, I see you've taken seven chances.
to actually see if this message lands. I've watched them all. I've recognized whether they land or not. Nice job.
Brad Herda (:Where's my dude on LinkedIn? He has not gone away. He keeps here. He is here. He is Octavian Ritoro Ritoro, I don't know He was all over me after we first connected like every day to go through and give me this to go through this lead generation specialist thingy, right? Showed back up. He slowed down I had
Doyle (:Yeah, there are some. Yep.
Doyle (:yeah.
Hmm
Mm-hmm.
Doyle (:Yeah.
Brad Herda (:What from let's see November 17th and December 2nd December 3rd December 7th December 9th December 12th and then January 2nd So he must have taken a holiday over the break. So January 2nd was the last message I'm expecting something in my LinkedIn inbox along the way Whether it's automated or it's rule. I have no idea but there it's like
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Doyle (:Right. Well.
I look at that so I know where to me this is kind of going off a little shoot here, but if people are genuinely interested, they'll either respond back quickly with a yet let's talk or a. And polite no. And then there's other people that are watching it going, yeah, no, and they just they just hit delete. Right, so reaching out the real thing is is when you're reaching out. Whether it's.
two times, 20 times, whatever it is, but you haven't gotten a response back. Right. It doesn't mean it's a no. It really means they're either not seeing it. Your message is wrong or they're truly just not interested. And they just deleted it. Thing is, it's just don't give up, but change your, change your approach. If they're not connecting with you, change your approach.
Brad Herda (:So the other thing I will say is you may not know what's going on in their lives or in their business if it's a B2B type situation. So one of my clients does bookkeeping by the way, if you're interested.
Doyle (:100%.
Doyle (:Yeah.
Brad Herda (:Just saying.
Doyle (:I'm doing just fine, Brad. I do just fine.
Brad Herda (:Okay, we'll find out when it comes tax bill time. Anyhow.
He was work he's had a garage door company that he was trying to engage with and he had to kind of all systems go and it was early December and it was really cold and he's like I'm like When should I follow up next? I'm like you you just sent something out Cool. Have you thought about it from their point of view? It's super cold out. It's December
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:People want new construction. They want to get closed up so they can put heat and all things in and not have the garages fill up with snow. the homeowners that have broken springs right now from the cold and all the service stuff. So they're probably very busy. It's not that they're trying to ignore you. And because he's on the other side of it, trying to be the sales side of it, he feel just ignoring me. There's like, you think about their business for a minute and your next message should be, Hey,
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Doyle (:Is this?
Doyle (:Uh-huh.
Brad Herda (:I'm sure with all this cold weather and all these things, I'm sure you've been very busy doing a spring replacements and things like that. Can totally appreciate that. Would you have availability? I see next week is supposed to get a little warmer. Would you have availability on Thursday or Friday to meet? He threw out a message like that they met. He signed the client, did the things, but his concern was, well, they're ignoring me and they just don't want like no, no, that's that's not. That's not the situation.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm. Right.
Doyle (:No, right.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm. Yep.
Brad Herda (:So trying to put yourself when you're doing the follow-up in their shoes and showing that out as you like to call tactical empathy.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:along the way in your messaging.
Doyle (:you
Brad Herda (:goes a long way.
Brad Herda (:So, well, Mr. Doyle, thank you for letting me pick on you on this.
Doyle (:Yeah, well, mean, that's that's a common theme around here.
Brad Herda (:Not even close. There's only one reason that my name was the most used name is because every f***ing picked on me all year last year. So we're gonna try to make Steve the word of the year. We're gonna try to make Steve the word of the year for 2026. Steve. Hey Steve.
Doyle (:Well, Brad, mean.
Doyle (:Well, Brad. Well, Brad. I love it.
Brad Herda (:All right, hopefully our audience gets something out of the show other than just some some laughs and some giggles, but there's take some serious time to look at your operations to where can I get better? How can I keep my money in my own pocket? And where am I falling short? Because I'm just wasting time with inefficiency. I don't want to say efficiency effectiveness. I'm more concerned about people being effective than efficient. Yes, Steve, you are being effective in doing your accounting that way. You are more efficient at all.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Doyle (:Correct.
Doyle (:I'm not being efficient with it. Right. Right.
Brad Herda (:But the pain to become efficient is a very low threshold.
Doyle (:Well, that's good to know. That's good to know.
Brad Herda (:Just let me know so alright sir. Thank you very much, and we will talk soon
Doyle (:All right, you're welcome. All right, thanks.