When it comes to seed oils, there are strong opinions, evolving science, and a lot of noise. In this special episode of 1,000 Waking Minutes, we revisit my 2023 interview on Sound Bites® podcast with the brilliant Melissa Joy Dobbins, MS, RDN, CDCES.

Melissa’s podcast is a go-to for those who want credible, balanced insights, and I’m thrilled to share this conversation with you.

Together, we explored seed oils from all angles: what they are, why they’re controversial, and how to use them effectively in your kitchen. We also tackled common claims around seed oils , helping you make informed choices that align with your health and lifestyle.

WE DISCUSS:

• What exactly are seed oils, and why do they get so much attention?
• Are they the same as vegetable oils?
• The science: What research actually tells us about seed oils and health
• The omega-3 and omega-6 balance: What matters most?
• Why ‘ratio’ isn’t the full picture
• Cooking with oils: Flavor, function, and how to choose the right one
• Fun, practical ways to incorporate different culinary oils into your meals
• A surprising way chia oil can enhance your favorite dishes

Check out Sound Bites® with Melissa Joy Dobbins for more insightful conversations on food, nutrition, and health. You can find her podcast wherever you listen, or visit soundbitesrd.com for all her episodes and resources.

As always, I appreciate you tuning in and sharing your waking minutes with me. Let me know your thoughts, share this episode if it resonates with you, and stay tuned for more balanced, real-world discussions ahead!

CONNECT WITH WENDY:

Follow on Instagram: @1000WakingMinutes

Visit the website: wendybazilian.com

Email me: 1KWM@wendybazilian.com

PLEASE SUPPORT:

If you’re enjoying 1,000 Waking Minutes, help us grow!

Subscribe to get new episodes as soon as they drop.

Rate & Review the show—your feedback helps others find the podcast.

Join the conversation! Share your thoughts or questions by visiting wendybazilian.com or connecting on social media.

Thank you for tuning in to 1,000 Waking Minutes and being part of this journey—together. A huge thank you to our amazing collaborators including our production and marketing teams, and Gabriela Escalante in particular. To the ultra-talented Beza for my theme music, my lifelong friend and artist Pearl Preis Photography and Design, to Danielle Ballantyne, Jen Nguyen, Joanna Powell, and of course, my family and everyone working tirelessly behind the scenes.

HEALTH DISCLAIMER:

The information shared in this podcast is for educational purposes only and should not be considered individual medical or health advice. Always consult with your trusted healthcare provider before making any changes to your diet, exercise, or medical treatment.

ABOUT MELISSA:

Melissa Joy Dobbins MS, RDN, CDCES – (https://soundbitesrd.com/about-melissa/ )

Melissa is the CEO of Sound Bites® Inc., a food and nutrition communications business where she promotes sound science, smart nutrition and good food. She is also the host of the popular Sound Bites® Podcast where she interviews experts on a variety of topics ranging from fad diets to farming, sharing evidence-based information and realistic solutions to help people enjoy their food with health in mind.

The podcast has been running for more than 10 years, has more than 280 episodes, 1 million downloads and has provided more than 35,000 free CEU activities for RDNs through the Commission on Dietetic Registration. 

Melissa’s background includes clinical nutrition, outpatient counseling, corporate wellness, academia and research. She has extensive media and communications experience and has received numerous awards including the Media Excellence Award from the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics in 2016 and Outstanding Nutrition Entrepreneur of the Year Award in 2024. 

Melissa has been published in the Journal of Nutrition Education and Behavior and Communicating Nutrition: The Authoritative Guide, and served as an expert witness on behalf of the federal government in the FTC trial of Kevin Trudeau who was convicted of nutrition-related fraud in 2013. 

RESOURCES:

1. 15-CEU Course from Sound Bites® Podcast

• Discount code for YOU! CODE: WENDY15 (good until 5/31/25)

2. Catch the original episode here:

• Podcast Episode 248: Seed Oils: Controversy, Claims & Culinary Uses – Dr. Wendy Bazilian https://soundbitesrd.com/podcast-episode-248-seed-oils-controversy-claims-culinary-uses-dr-wendy-bazilian/

3. Sound Bites® Website

4. Culinary Oil Handout: Smoke Point: A Look at Chia Oil and Other Cooking Oils

5. Benexia® is a vertically integrated company that specializes in chia seed ingredients. Their brand Seeds of Wellness produces cold-pressed organic chia oil and chia milk.

REFERENCES:

• International Food Information Council. (2025). Americans' perceptions of seed oils: Survey insights. Food Insight. Retrieved from https://foodinsight.org/ific-spotlight-survey-americans-perceptions-of-seed-oils/
• Industry Intelligence. (2025). Survey finds most Americans view seed oils as healthy, 25% unfamiliar with the term. Industry Intel. Retrieved from https://www.industryintel.com/consumer-wellness/news/international-food-information-council-survey-finds-most-americans-view-seed-oils-as-healthy-25-of-consumers-unfamiliar-with-term-while-37-encounter-it-regularly-in-media-channels-168080586840

Seed oils, are they a

health concern, a nutritional essential,

or just another misunderstood food?

This conversation is just as

relevant today as when I

sat down with my colleague

and fellow dietician, Melissa Joy

Dobbins, on her podcast, Sound

Bites.

And today, I'm bringing that

conversation to 1,000 Waking Minutes,

with some timely context on

why seed oils are still

making headlines.

We experience 1,000 Waking Minutes

on average every day.

How are you spending yours?

I'm Dr. Wendy Bazilian, and

you're listening to 1,000 Waking

Minutes.

I can't wait to connect

with you here with practical

ways to eat well, move

daily, and be healthy, to

optimize every waking minute you

live for a happier, healthier

life.

Thank you for sharing some

of your waking minutes with

me today.

Let's get started.

Hello and welcome to 1,000

Waking Minutes.

I'm Dr. Wendy Bazilian, your

host, and I'm so glad

that you're here.

Today we're talking about a

topic that's very current, and

it's on the minds of

so many people right now

due to a variety of

reasons, from media headlines, to

politics, to TikTok viral posts,

and more.

And that's the topic of

seed oils.

I've been feeling an increasing

and real desire to attempt

to tackle this topic in

an episode, and we will

most certainly talk more about

it ahead.

But then I had an

idea that sprang to mind.

In October 2023, 17 months

ago, I was invited to

sit down with a colleague

and a friend of mine,

a podcast host, and she

is extraordinary.

Her name is Melissa Joy

Dobbins, and she is the

host of Sound Bites.

She's done hundreds of episodes

on wide ranging topics on

nutrition and health.

She and I discussed this

very topic of seed oils

at that time.

We talked about the science,

we talked about the controversy,

and we even talked about

practical tips around what to

do, figuratively and literally with

understanding this topic, and with

the use of seed oils.

So the idea I had

was to revisit this episode

directly with you and bring

it to you here today.

And she said yes, when

I asked her.

So as you're probably aware,

this topic remains as relevant

now, if not even more

so than when we first

recorded it.

So Melissa Joy Dobbins, let

me just tell you a

little bit about her, if

you don't know her already.

She is known as the

guilt-free RD.

She's a distinguished and award

-winning nutrition expert with a

master's in nutrition education.

She's credentialed as a registered

dietitian nutritionist and a certified

diabetes care and education specialist.

With more than two decades

of experience, she has been

a guiding light in the

nutrition community, both at the

professional level and at the

national and international audience through

her podcasts and other avenues

and channels.

And she offers sound science

-based advice through her podcasts.

She does media appearances and

educational initiatives.

Her podcast is called Sound

Bites, and it has reached

more than a million downloads,

something to aspire to.

She has such a tremendous

history and such great episodes.

And she has provided through

her podcast also thousands of

hours, like 30,000 and

growing hours of continuing education

for health professionals.

This totally reflecting her commitment

personally and professionally to accessible

and credible nutrition information, to

educating and collaborating like we're

doing today.

And I think most importantly,

caring about the nature and

quality of food and nutrition

for us all.

So as a teaser to

our episode today, and her

episode was and is entitled

The Science of Seed Oils

and Practical Tips for Culinary

Oils that I'm excited to

share with you today, just

a little preview.

We explore there the nuances

of seed oils, what they

are, the claims surrounding them,

and what the research truly

indicates.

We discuss the distinctions between

omega-6 and omega-3

fatty acids, both essential.

And we debunked some prevalent

myths that are out there,

as well as talking about

the challenges of misinformation and

what I often call partial

information that's brewing and out

there almost everywhere.

And then we shared some

practical culinary tips, including some

of Melissa's and my favorite

ways to choose consciously and

incorporate some of these oils

like avocado oil and chia

oil, seed oils, into our

everyday cooking.

So fast forward to now,

March 2025, and the discourse

on seed oils continues to

thrive.

Well, thrive may be a

little too kind of a

word by what some of

you who may feel confused

or frustrated or even misled

since the conversation is often

fueled by partial information and

evolving narratives here.

A recent survey just last

month by the International Food

Information Council, IFIC, found that

while 46% of Americans,

nearly half, do actually view

seed oils as healthy, a

quarter of them, 25%, remain

unfamiliar with the term, and

more than one in five

encounter information about them primarily

through social media channels.

There's definitely a very real

disconnect between the public perception

and what the science says.

So that's going to be

an important thing to listen

for in the episode.

But there's also a lot

of nuance in this space,

which highlights the ongoing need

for balanced and evidence-based

discussions to help individuals, you

and me, navigate the almost

literal sea of information and

help us make informed dietary

choices that fit our own

lives and our own health

goals.

Before I hit replay on

this topic here for you

today, I do want to

be sure to mention that

I have consulted for Benexia.

Benexia is a vertically integrated

chia seed company that's headquartered

in Chile.

Very proud to consult for

them for entering into my

fourth year here.

It's a 50% farmer

-owned, regenerative agriculture-based business,

and it's the company behind

a brand called Seeds of

Wellness products, including chia oil.

And it's one of the

VIP members of my own

pantry of culinary oils, but

it is a cold-press

seed oil.

So I wanted to mention

that because as I enter

my fourth year working with

them, I want to be

sure that I always disclose

to you if I'm working

with anyone and the nature

of talking about topics that

may be surrounding it.

This episode, nor Melissa's, neither

of them were sponsored.

And this is purely my

own information, my own episode

today, but it stemmed from

a shared and aligned professional

commitment that Melissa and I

both had when we first

did this to nutritious, sustainable

foods and ingredients.

And so I hope you'll

get to know Benexia with

me and Seeds of Wellness

over time, but it helps

us sort of unravel some

of the information around the

health and science-based ingredients

that may be entering our

marketplace and then our pantries

and then our mouths.

So as you listen to

this episode, I encourage you

to reflect on the insights

shared and consider how they

align with your personal health

goals.

I also invite you and

encourage you to explore Melissa's

extensive body of work.

Her podcast, Sound Bites, covers a

wide array of topics with

credibly interesting, credentialed, evidence-based

experts from various fields.

And they all offer really

interesting, valuable perspectives on nutrition

and wellness, not to mention

continuing education many times, not

every episode, but there's so

much continuing education that if

you're a health professional who

needs this or just a

lifetime or academic at heart,

what could be better than

listening to a podcast, learning

and receiving credit as you

do?

In fact, she's just launched

a 15-unit continuing education

unit package, 15 of them

in a curated bundle through

her podcast and her resources

that she offers.

And with that come only

one quiz.

So that's pretty nifty as

well.

So I'll put links, contact

information, and she's even offered

me a discount code to

share out with you and

much more in the show

notes today.

Thank you for joining us

on this journey toward understanding

and balance on this important

topic, seed oils, and of

course, others that we cover

on 1,000 Waking Minutes.

Your engagement and curiosity drive

these conversations, and I look

forward to continuing to explore

such pertinent topics as this

in future episodes.

And you can always reach

out to me directly at

1KWM@wendybazilian.com

or find me at my

website, wendybazilian.com.

Now let's dive into the

episode and share a few

of our waking minutes today

together with Melissa Joy Dobbins.

Enjoy.

Welcome to Sound Bites hosted

by registered dietitian nutritionist, Melissa

Joy Dobbins.

Let's delve into the science,

the psychology and the strategies

behind good food and nutrition.

Hello and welcome to the

Sound Bites podcast.

Today's episode is about seed

oils.

What are they?

And why are we hearing

so much about them?

And ultimately, are they healthy

or not?

We are going to discuss

the science on seed oils

and practical tips, including different

kinds of culinary oils and

how to use them in

your own kitchen.

My guest today is Dr.

Wendy Bazilian.

She is a doctorate in

public health and nutrition, a

registered dietician nutritionist, and an

American College of Sports Medicine

certified exercise physiologist.

She is also a writer,

educator, food enthusiast, and award

winning journalist who maintains a

busy private practice in San

Diego with individuals from CEOs,

artists and actors to professional

athletes, parents and children seeking

to improve their nutrition, fitness

and health.

She is the author of

several books and has contributed

to many others.

Welcome to the show, Wendy.

Great to be with you,

Melissa.

Thank you for having me.

I call you Wendy because

I know you.

Would you prefer that I

call you Dr. Bazilian or

Dr. Wendy?

No, I mean, I appreciate

that very much because it

was certainly a hard earned

degree and I'm very proud

of it.

But hopefully that will sort

of manifest through a friendly

conversation today.

But I have credibility for

being here on this topic,

and we can leave it

at that.

Wendy is perfect.

Awesome.

Thank you.

And I want to mention

that this episode is not

sponsored.

However, I did receive a

gift of chia oil from

you.

Thank you so much.

And when you tell us

a little bit more about

your background and disclosures, you

can mention this chia oil

and we're going to talk

about all kinds of oils,

but specifically some interesting things

regarding chia oil.

So I would love for

you to tell us more

about your background.

I know you have vast

experience and I've seen you

in many different capacities and

you're just a pleasure to

watch, present and to listen

to.

And I learned so much

from you.

But I would love our

listeners to get to know

you a little bit better

and maybe how you got

interested in nutrition or whatever

you would like us to

know about the work you

do.

Thank you so much.

You know, probably as with

you, it's sort of my

career and who I am

has evolved over time, even

though my core identity has

stayed the same.

As a human, I am

an avid eater, a spirited

person.

I love to communicate with

others.

And that have been the

sort of universal truths of

who I am.

I live in San Diego,

California for 30 years now.

I'm so jealous, by the

way.

It is a nice place

to be, but hail from

Connecticut originally.

So I grew up on

East.

I had a healthy dose

of cold winters and beautiful

falls.

And we still, you know,

go back and enjoy that

as frequently as we can.

So I got into nutrition

and then I'll give a

few disclosures on like what

I do and who I

work with.

But I like to say

I got into nutrition through

the back door and straight

into the kitchen.

I have always loved food,

as I mentioned, and I've

always loved and showed proficiency

in science.

I didn't know how those

connected for a very long

time, by the way.

For some reason that just

didn't link up and sync

up until later.

My first degree actually is

in Spanish language and literature,

of all things.

I know that's so interesting.

With a minor in Latin

American studies.

And from there, I got

a master's degree in Latin

American studies.

And the path now has

shown to sort of why

and where and how I

am, who I am today.

But at the time, I

wasn't quite sure.

I just really thought that

a great liberal arts degree

that was multidisciplinary would somehow

help me have a perspective

on the world and allow

me to talk with more

people, which was the language

part of it.

And it did.

So when I did my

master's degree in Latin American

studies, I actually did field

research in northeast Brazil.

I picked up a language

there because I thought if

I'm going to study Latin

America, I should learn Portuguese.

And I started doing field

research with a public health

group in a very impoverished

indigent area in northeast Brazil

around maternal health, around infant

mortality, and around breastfeeding in

the very, very interior northeast

Brazil.

It was sort of there

that the intersection of public

health and nutrition and how

you can change.

And also learning that, you

know, where we live doesn't

always have all the ideas

or the right ideas.

Sometimes this was a very

grassroots public health theater group

that was re-promoting breastfeeding

in an area where potable

water was scarce and food

was scarce.

And there was a perception

going around that breast milk

was not adequate somehow for

infants.

It was from that point

that I said, aha, nutrition

is where I want to

be.

And I started backtracking a

lot on the science.

I had to go sort

of back to school on

some of the things I

was taking as hobbies and

pursued a doctoral degree in

public health and nutrition, pursued

the registered dietitian nutritionist credential,

which you well know takes

years of commitment and upkeep.

And also my health and

fitness orientation, I became credentialed

as an exercise physiologist through

the American College of Sports

Medicine.

So those are my creds,

the letters that come after

my name, but really it

all comes back then to

communicating about it.

So I won't go through

all of the where's, you

know, paint my path.

Cause we have a very

important topic to talk about.

That's very trendy and interesting,

but I do consulting today.

I'm in private practice.

I do consulting and presenting

and I do communication strategy

on some of my clients

include one that I'm going

to bring up just topically

more than anything else, which

is a company called Benexia,

which makes chia ingredients and

the chia oil that you

received is from and through

their brand.

And also a few others.

I've worked with fresh avocados

recently with HydroLite, which is,

it's a medicinal food that

is one of those, I

call them hydration helpers.

I'm not actively right now,

but just to, you know,

showcase a few that sort

of cross and intersect with

my philosophical professional passion, lean

into the evidence always in

science when I work with

them.

And then I am a

huge advocate of mentoring and

scholarships.

So I'm on the board

of the California academies foundation.

So I work with the

scholarships and students mentor a

number of individuals as well.

That is not a short

answer for you, Melissa, but

that's who I am at

least sitting here today.

Yeah.

I mean, you have so

much experience and passion in

all these different areas and

I love to see how

it does intersect and come

together.

And I like to see

like with my career, like

hindsight's 2020, all the choices

and turns and twists that

I made in my career

at the time, I was

just making the best decisions

I could at the time.

But looking back, it all

makes perfect sense.

Right?

Yeah.

Thankfully, you know, that you're

sort of like on the

path and it doesn't have

to be and rarely as

straight.

Right.

Absolutely.

Well, thank you.

No, I loved learning more

about you and having our

listeners hear that as well.

So let's dive into the

topic of seed oils.

As you said, it's very

trendy.

I'm curious how you got

interested in the topic to

begin with.

And we're going to get

into the science and what

they are and everything.

But how did it come

across your radar screen?

Yeah, my professional education training

is rooted in science and

research.

And I am, you know,

the person who just loves

the latest papers that come

out and evaluating the quality

of the science and reading

about p-values and all

that when it comes to

nutrition science.

So that's part and parcel

with what I'm scanning as

to you each and every

day.

On the area about seed

oils, I also really try

to keep up on trends,

not just trends that I

see being headlined about, but

trends that start bubbling up.

So the benefit of, you

know, working with individuals and

also working with big groups

and working in health insurance

companies, doing some things is

that you start to see

things pop up that spark

curiosity.

And I always think when

it comes to nutrition, I

haven't seen an exception yet,

but flag one, if you

know one, but when people

start talking about nutrition topics,

it tells me they care.

So even if it's misinformed

or partially informed or a

little off track on what

the science says, maybe I

even don't know all the

science yet.

And I go digging.

It sort of tells me,

well, this topic is interesting

to them.

And so I start, you

know, mapping that.

And my brain, it just

works like that.

It's got a lot of

different spokes sort of throwing

out and putting things together.

And I started seeing this

topic about seed oils being

bad, you know, that's sort

of the topic.

And before anything else going,

instead of like just going

off, that's phooey, that's not

right.

Or, you know, whoever that

person is talking about has

got it all wrong.

I was like, that is

curious that that perception, I

wonder why.

So I started just asking

why, like the best four

year olds out there, I

have one of those.

And I started digging around

and I know a good

amount about fats and the

biochemistry of fats and how

fats work.

I worked with some premier

researchers in that area personally.

And so that's sort of

where it comes in.

And then in my desire

to educate and help, hopefully,

I tried to dig into

the science and help communicate

out, help balance the conversation,

you know, not disparage anyone

or take them down.

But, you know, it's what

I love to do with

part passion, part interest and

part skill set, I guess.

Excellent.

So let's discuss what seed

oils are.

I'll be honest, when I

started hearing about them on

social media, I was like,

what are seed oils?

I don't know this term.

Is this a new term?

Is this just like a

scientific term that just turned

popular?

What are they?

Yeah.

And are we seeing it

in the traditional media too?

Yes, yes, social media and

it is definitely come into

the traditional media.

I'm happy to say that

there has been a recent

sort of balancing act happening,

which hopefully we'll be talking

about today, but it's coming

about.

OK.

It's a prominent conversation.

Seed oils, we already know

them.

You already know them.

You know, they're a collective

term that for sunflower oil

and canola oil and cottonseed

oil and corn oil and

soybean oil.

These are seed, literally oils

that have been somehow processed

to extract their oils.

They are trending in part

because and this will probably

percolate over the course of

our time together, but there's

some misinformation on it because

I think they're in part

a proxy at times for

ultra processed foods.

And since we're talking very

often about ultra processed foods

these days and bad versus

good, evil versus good, I

don't know what these seed

oils do feature some of

them in some of these

ultra processed foods.

They also some of these

seed oils, some call them

the hateful eight.

I'm not going to recite

what the eight are.

I named a few of

them.

I did not name eight

and they weren't exhaustive.

This list is not exhaustive.

And so that's where the

opportunity is to play out.

Well, aren't seeds good?

You know, how did they

get into oil?

You know, why did they

get into oil?

How do we use them?

And really it's the seed

oils that have been really

tagged and targeted are the

ones that are higher in

the omega six fats.

So people are hearing omega

six bad, omega three good,

not that simple, unfortunately.

And so I think it's

a convergence of like the

ultra processed food, the omega

six being bad, general confusion.

And then a few very

loud voices who have come

out and sort of across

the board said, delete these

from your diet.

They are bad with a

little bit, sometimes a lot

of misinformation.

Right.

I'm used to hearing the

term vegetable oil.

Is there a distinction between

vegetable?

Because I think of corn

oil and soybean oil as

vegetable oil.

Is there a distinction?

Yeah.

Well, not a lot of

distinction.

I would say, you know,

if we're getting granular, it's

sort of, it gets down

to the botany, you know,

like botanically, are they coming

from a seed source?

But it really could be

any oil.

A seed is in the

plant kingdom.

And I think that that's

where the sort of nomenclature

becomes a little bit more

flexible on calling the vegetable

oils.

So, you know, a corn

oil or safflower oil, the

fact that they're being pressed

from the seeds, I think

that's just like a level

beyond and people are categorizing

them.

You know, what's not on

the list, which we'll talk

about, you know, and not

heralding it better than in

all cases, but, you know,

chia is not talked about,

chia oil, but it's not

something that we, a lot

of us even know about.

Right.

And I think when we're

looking at what we'll discover

and discuss is that it

all starts with the seed.

So what are the nutrients

in the seed?

Okay.

Next is what is the

processing?

And we will go through

each one of these, but

what is the processing that

happens to the seed?

What's done after that determines

some of the characteristics and

the personality and also some

of their culinary use.

So some of them have

positive attributes like neutral flavor,

and you can cook at

high temperatures, you know, at

the same time, they may

have some, you know, the

risk benefit ratio, so to

speak, that we got to

look at when we're using

it on the plate in

a culinary way.

Okay, great.

That is very helpful.

And I know we're going

to talk a lot about

what the research shows about

seed oils, unsaturated fats, and

I have a related episode,

a couple of related episodes,

but one in particular is

218 omega-6 PUFAs, polyunsaturated

fatty acids, inflammation, and non

-alcoholic fatty liver disease with

Dr. Martha Belury.

I'll link to that in

the show notes.

And I also have done

some episodes on processed foods

and ultra processed foods.

So those links will all

be in the show notes

at soundbitesrd.com.

And we are going to

talk about omega-3s and

omega-6s quite a bit.

But what does the research

show either in general or

any specific studies that you

want to talk about, about

seed oils and unsaturated fats?

And also, there's a double

question here.

What is the average intake

look like for Americans?

Yeah, so these are two

great questions, Melissa.

And I think in order

to get to the research,

which is not unanimous, research

is research.

So we want to see

that not every study shows

unanimity.

We want the methods to

be well organized and planned

and quality.

But I'd like to anchor

us briefly around why the

topic is so important by

looking at the fats in

general.

And what's really interesting is

that we're even talking about

fats as being fascinating.

I think that's really cool

in the first place.

But the idea about the

essential fats, we hear about

this, and I think that

most of your listeners will

know this inherently, or they

know this from their training.

But sometimes we glaze over

the word, we hear essential

fatty acids or essential fats.

And certain fats are essential

because the body does not

make them.

They do not endogenously produce

them.

So we have to get

them from the diet.

So as a quick recap,

I won't go deep into

the weeds here.

But a fat is one

of our macronutrients, of course.

It is not a vitamin

or mineral.

It's found in a lot

of different foods.

And its primary action, aside

from some nerve and other

hormones and other areas where

it plays in the body,

but it's for energy.

It's for energy.

It's the calories.

It's for insulation of our

body as well.

In the essential fats, two

major classes that are essential

are the omega-3 and

the omega-6.

And we just have a

tendency to make one better

than the other or start

looking at that.

But it's important to sort

of anchor us in the

omega-3s and the omega

-6s getting toward the essential

fats because that's really where

the seed oil controversy and

claims come.

And I can talk about

some of those claims that

people are saying about them

if you'd like to hear

in a minute.

But the essential fat is

ALA or alpha linolenic acid.

That's the omega-3 that

comes from plants.

It's like the parent.

And from that, EPA and

DHA are sort of the

siblings or the cousins that

can be converted from ALA.

But it's also abundant.

And we hear a lot

about this in marine sources,

like salmon and other sources.

So the only essential one,

though, is the plant one

because that one you literally

can't make.

The other ones you can

make.

And there's questions about conversion

and ratios.

I don't know how thick

we'll get into that.

But the idea is that

we have that omega-3

and we're not getting enough.

So the question is, you

know, how much do we

need to get?

And I'll get to that

in a second.

The other one is the

omega-6s.

Omega-6s also play an

important and complementary and balancing

act to the omega-3s.

And they're also essential.

So just to throw them

under the bus arbitrarily, that

anything with N-6s, they're

also called in science omega

-6s, are bad, is right

out the gate mischaracterizing this

fat.

And the omega-6s do

tend to be pro-inflammatory.

But the bigger issue in

the human diet is that

we're getting too much of

them.

So this is sort of

queuing up on, you know,

where's our intake?

Our intake levels are adequate

Intake.

So a reminder, this is

not a one-size-fits

-all approach, but for most

people, the adequate intake is

about reached for the omega

-3s, believe it or not.

Some people say we're way

deficient.

But compelling research is starting

to suggest that the adequate

intake that's set is too

low and that maybe it

should be two to four

times higher than what the

adequate intake of 1.1

grams a day should be

for the ALA omega-3.

Too many numbers, I know.

No, that's helpful.

But just keep in mind,

we're sort of meeting it,

but the compelling research for

health benefit and health support

and health promotion is suggesting

we might need two to

four times as much.

And this is not me

saying it.

This is what the science

and leading scientists in this

area are saying.

At the same time, on

the omega-6, we are

getting too much.

We're getting too much of

that.

So the idea of reducing

consumption or finding places where

it exists in the diet

that you might either shift

toward omega-3s or simply

reduce some of these omega

-6s may be warranted.

So we are getting in

excess of our needs on

the omega-6s.

That's the simple answer.

I don't think we should

go deeper into that.

Yeah, no, that makes sense.

Thank you.

And then on the research,

you know, you asked about

that.

There is a large and

growing body of research on

unsaturated fats in general.

So that would include these

polyunsaturated fats, the omega-3

and the omega-6.

I think that that's where

even among registered dietitians that

I've spoken to about this,

we sort of get in,

not to group think, but

we sort of forget sometimes.

You know, we know some

of the functions that are

not health promoting of omega

-6s, and maybe we're just

not up to speed on

some of the research on

the omega-6s.

But there is a good

body of evidence, and the

American Heart Association came out

with sort of a lead

paper back in 2009 saying

omega-6s actually are protective

for heart health.

They're helpful for heart health,

you know, in a number

of ways.

And there's many, many studies

that have come beyond that.

And so the research on

cardiovascular health probably being the

strongest sort of health-related

association with the unsaturated fats

for both omega-3s and

omega-6s, anti-inflammatory benefits,

and then the host of,

you know, chronic diseases associated

with diet that also may

be linked to chronic inflammation.

That's very helpful.

I appreciate how you're explaining

this, and we could take

a deep dive on the

science.

I will say in episode

218 with Martha, there were

times when I was like,

okay, wait, I'm trying to

understand.

It's very sciency, but it's

very, very interesting.

Yes.

And I appreciate one of

the main takeaways is it's

not that omega-3s are

good and omega-6s are

bad.

That's way oversimplified.

And even this ratio that

we sort of just kind

of clung to, the ratios

of omega-3s to omega

-6s in the diet, and

just the awareness that there

are some benefits, health benefits

to the polyunsaturated fats with

regard to the omega-6s.

Because we know, everybody knows

the omega-3s are good.

So it's kind of trying

to tease out some of

those benefits that we may

not be aware of.

So let's talk, and maybe

I'm jumping ahead here, but

you kind of gave a

little bit of an overview

of oils and fats in

general.

But I know one of

the things that we wanted

to talk specifically about is

these different culinary oils.

And it goes beyond smoke

point.

That's one of the things

I've learned from you.

What do we need to

know or consider when we're

choosing different oils?

You've got a good resource

that I'm going to put

in the show notes as

well.

Because some of this, it's

a little bit, it helps

to have a resource, a

handout, or something to go

to.

Because there's a lot of

different oils and there's a

lot of different factors to

consider from my understanding.

So where should we start

with that whole category, that

whole topic?

Yeah, where do we start?

Right.

So imagine the supermarket aisle.

You know, I wish I,

I'm going to paint this

the best I can to

your ears.

But the next time you're

in a major supermarket, walk

down the aisle where the

oils, the liquid oils are.

Not whip through it and

grab the one you're looking

for or whiz by.

Go look and take it

in.

It is a huge section.

It's a huge aisle sometimes.

It's tremendous.

And there's every shape of

bottle.

There's every color of bottle.

There's every material made of

bottle.

It is top to bottom.

There's every price point of

these bottles.

I mean, there's no surprise

that it feels daunting and

confusing and that we can

stir some controversy around that,

certainly.

With each of the oils,

there could be 10 different

options within that oil, olive

oil, you know, which one,

which press, which brand.

So it can certainly be

confusing.

When we consider using them

for cooking and actually, a

colleague of ours, a registered

dietitian colleague of ours just

told me yesterday about a

conversation she had over the

weekend with a friend who's

asked her, our colleague, you

know, why do you have

five oils on your counter?

You know, I only cook

with one.

And she said, oh my

gosh, it opened up this

great conversation.

A lot of people still

believe, you know, we just

need one, you know, just

choose one, use the one

that can be, you know,

multipurpose.

And I would argue that

there are different oils for

different uses.

And hopefully I'll leave, you

know, you and your listeners

with, you know, not the

long list, unless you're really

enthusiastic about your oils and

you like to have lots

and lots of different ones,

but maybe the reason that

you might have four or

five different oils in your

pantry.

We want to be driven

by flavor.

I didn't say nutrition first.

We want to be driven

by flavor.

We want to be driven

by the functionality of it.

How does it fit into

the food that we want

to make?

And can we use it

cooking?

So smoke point comes to

play as well as some

other factors.

You know, does it have

nutrients we're interested in?

You know, can we afford

it?

And so those are all

factors that come in.

Sometimes you want a neutral

oil that can hit a

high smoke point.

And guess what?

That may be a pretty

refined seed oil.

And is that problematic?

Well, in a balanced diet,

we're not only eating one

ingredient.

No, it's not a problem.

You might use that to

sear and you might use

other oils along the way

for other culinary purposes.

So that's a start on

that.

But cooking technique, flavor, function,

and I hope, you know,

a little bit of nutrition,

if you can get that

in there as well.

That's a great overview.

And I should back up

and say, because you had

mentioned, you could touch on

some of the seed oil

claims.

Maybe we should go through

some of that because if

somebody is not familiar with

seed oils or the controversy,

they might be wondering more.

Yeah.

What's the deal?

Why are we talking about

this or who's talking about

this?

So to make a proof

point, I'm going to read

this one media outlet.

And I have this note

in front of me.

One media outlet reported, while

doctors and scientists peruse PubMed

for evidence, lay people report

to places like TikTok where

the war against seed oil

rages on.

Videos tagged with hashtag seed

oils have been viewed over

31 million times on TikTok.

So why are we talking

about this and what are

those claims?

It's created all kinds of

buzz.

One of them is inflammation.

So I mentioned that before.

When we learn about a

nutrient, like we hear about

omega-6, usually we hear

about the prominent one or

it gets flagged for some

reason in some headline and

we just stick to it.

Like that's what it does.

End of story.

Some seed oils, not all,

contain some pro-inflammatory omega

-6s.

So there's always a seed

of truth to any claim,

I imagine.

I love it.

Also, some people say it's

all about that ratio.

We've got the ratio all

wrong.

You mentioned that before and

it's brought up.

I'd like us to start

using the word balance.

So the ratio being how

many omega-3s to omega

-6s are in the diet.

There's no question that we're

over-consuming the omega-6s,

under-consuming the omega-3s,

but it's not a strict

ratio that we need to

bring in.

That's sort of the old

school thought.

It is more complicated than

that.

And there are other functions.

Another claim is that seed

oils are toxic.

So it's a word that's

controversial.

In the first place, they

have chemicals that may mean

they're processed with different solvents

or how they come to

become the oil, different processing

and that processing means harm.

So anything that we hear

these days, you know, to

make cheese, you've got to

process dairy, right?

But you know, that one

gets a pass, but the

seed oils don't because process

equals harm.

The concept of refined versus

unrefined.

And there's some merit to

this on the one hand,

but refined, another word that

just triggers us.

And stable versus unstable.

So actually, some people feel

that the refined oils are

more stable and that hasn't

worn out actually in every

way, but that some oils

are more stable or less

stable.

And like I mentioned before,

that seed oils are a

proxy or they represent ultra

-processed foods.

So many times you'll see

people out on TikTok or

the social media sort of

showing a food product, you

know, or the label and

say, look at these seed

oils on the label.

And so they'll be painting

a picture of, you know,

badness by association, you know,

the group it's playing with

in the ingredient lists of

that food.

And then I think that

everyone just loves a conspiracy

theory every once in a

while.

So, you know, we want

to bash science or it'd

be anti-establishment or, you

know, that kind of thing.

I shouldn't laugh at that,

but that definitely exists.

If we don't laugh, we'll

cry, right?

Yeah, exactly.

That's very helpful.

Some of that I had

heard, but some of that

it was news to me.

And I love that there's

a seed of truth to

that.

I was kind of thinking

that earlier, not necessarily in

those terms, but I always

love a play on words.

So let's talk about chia

oil specifically.

I had not heard of

it before.

So I think a lot

of people haven't heard of

it.

Tell us about it and

maybe a little bit of

the consulting work.

And again, this isn't sponsored,

but this is an area

that you've done a lot

of work in.

And also I can tell

you how I used it

in my own kitchen.

I can't wait to hear

about that, Melissa.

I'm really excited.

I love sharing ideas about,

you know, how we use

information and how we use

ingredients.

So my introduction to chia

goes back a while.

I mean, I knew as

probably you did, you know,

the chia seed, which dates

back 3,500 years.

I don't date back that

far, but I like studying,

you know, part of my

background and fascination and it's

native to Latin America and

prominent there is about food

culture and indigenous foods to

areas and that kind of

thing.

So most of us learned

about or experimented with chia

pudding or chia.

So I knew that they

were a source of omega

-3.

So I already thought they

were cool.

I even knew how to

use them in some ways.

I still have in my

garage two terracotta chia pet

starters, you know, so that's

funny.

If you'd like to see

those brought to life, I

can do that for you

too.

I love it.

Send you pictures.

But I did a media

segment.

I was looking this up

before we spoke because I

was like, gosh, I even

put in a media segment

long before this back to

2010.

I had done something about

chia.

So I knew about the

science of fats.

I knew two of my

dissertation advisors on my committee

research fats and omega-3s

and that area.

And I had done quite

a bit with the nut