This is another installment of a sub-series of Generator called "Focal Points" where Maine photographer Matt Stagliano speaks with Jonny Edward, a commercial and portrait photographer, as well a top-tier educator based in Denver, Colorado about a variety of topics.

Podcast Title: Generator: Focal Points

Episode Title: The Recap of WPPI 2024 (Part 2)

Episode Number: 028

Publish Date: 26 March 2024

Description: In this episode, Matt & Jonny recount their vastly different experiences at WPPI 2024 in Las Vegas. This is Part 2 of a two part episode.

Keywords: creativity, WPPI, trade show, conference, photography, career, growth, community, podcasting, professional etiquette

Key Topics and Talking Points

• Solving issues in photography shooting bays
• The need for more photography podcasts
• The importance of reading shipping labels
• A last night in Vegas

Resources and Links

• For more on Jonny Edward's photography and educational courses, please visit jonnyedward.com

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Mentioned in this episode:

Cyanide

Well, would you look at that I haven't fired

myself from hosting this podcast yet. So I'm going to call that a

small victory. This week, I'll keep this intro pretty short.

What you're about to hear is part two of a long conversation

that I had with Johnny Edward, about all things WPPI 2024. If

you haven't had the chance, be sure to go back and listen to

part one, because that will give you the foundation for

everything that we talk about here. That's it. That's my

introduction. So let's dive in, shall we? Thanks again for

joining me. And without further delay, here's part two of the

WPPI 2024 recap with Johnny Edward.

You know, I guess probably the biggest overriding

thing, like the thematic element that keeps coming back to me is

this idea of like, firstly, honoring ourselves as artists,

and then thusly honoring those who we're working with,

alongside colleagues, allied professionals, models, subjects,

you know, all of these different things, and it just feels like

it's really easy to lose sight of that, you know, art, to me is

this really beautiful poetic expression of self. And so when

we lose sight of ourselves, we lose sight of our arts. And then

when we lose sight of ourselves and our art, we lose sight of

everything that comes along with that. Everything that that sort

of encapsulates that includes the people directly and

peripherally, who were engaged with and involved with directly

and indirectly, but I think so much of this just comes back

down to that, for me, at least,

you know, I find myself beating myself up quite a

bit, because I feel like an elitist I feel like a snob, or

that I have a very high opinion of myself when I go to a show

like WPPI, because I'm so insulated in my own little world

of my own business, and I'm trying to make things work and

survive. And I don't know the numbers, but I'd have to say

probably 50% are probably not full time, pro photographers,

right? Or they're Pro, but it's a side hustle or whatnot. Yeah,

which is all fine. But I think I find myself being a little bit

too, too exclusive, too elitist. And I want everybody to be at

the same high standard that I try to maintain that, you know,

is my version of a high standard. And when I don't see

that I get annoyed. And you know, that's not necessarily

right. It's not my position to judge anybody else or feel a

certain way about someone because they're not doing what

I'm doing. So I often find that I need to keep myself in check,

because I can go from just kind of cool guy to judgmental

asshole. In lightspeed. Yeah, I'm a nobody in a huge pond of

photographers. Yet, in my own world, I am a big fish in a

teaspoon, right? So, you know, as much as I sound like, I'm

cutting things apart. While I talk about this. It's really

nothing but stream of consciousness. So we were

talking a few minutes ago about the shooting bays, and ways that

we can maybe improve them. I wanted to get your thoughts on a

couple of things. One, I know, when we go into the shooting

base, there's typically one light, maybe a two light setup.

Yeah. And like you're saying, don't touch them under penalty

of death, because then you won't be able to get a properly

exposed photo. Yeah, I wanted to get your feel. Because they went

back to strobes this year from constant lights last year. Yep.

Would it be better to say, All right, here's a two light setup.

Here are the settings for three different looks with that to

light setup. And you have three minutes, one minute for each

setup to try it out. To give people a little bit more

variety. I don't know if that's feasible. But let's talk about

that the constant versus strobe can we do you know, multiple

lighting setups in one day.

So on the constant versus strobe thing, obviously,

I'm heavily biased in this since I predominantly use constant

lights these days. And I do that for a number of reasons. As an

artist, I use constant lights. And I've elucidated on this a

little bit before but because it allows me to stay better

connected to the person in front of my lens, there's less

technical minutiae to deal with, there's less things that could

possibly go wrong. If you're working with a professional

model, sometimes it's really nice to have a straw because

they can just move relative to the flash, right? So you're

working with someone who's amazing and they just, and it

looks like dance and it's mesmerized, and that's not how

most people are who step in front of our lens. It's jarring

If you're nervous, and you sit here and you put me in front of

all these lights, and I'm uncomfortable, then you just

start throwing strokes to be able to walk, you know, and so

it's uncomfortable. So I do that number one to stay connected to

the people. But as an educator, especially because I work with

so much shadow, it's really brilliant to be able to

demonstrate foundational lighting topics in real time.

You know, if I were to take the key light in front of me and

move it away and say this is what feathering looks like. And

so we don't have to imagine it. And we don't have to jump to a

screen on the back of a camera or something where it's either

going to, you can just see it, you can see Phil in real time,

here's what happens when we turn that up. Here's what happens

when we turn that down, you can see the effective color

temperature look at when those shadow lights become warmer and

cooler. So it's very, it's a lot easier to I think, educate and

empower photographers when working with constant light. So

I you know, once again, this goes back to ideal versus

monetary. And I think that's the big debate. I know that Profoto

wanted to be the exclusive provider of light and Profoto I

love working with your strobes. If you want to pick up a maniac

who makes amazing art is a wild card to be up sometime, I'll

totally throw everyone for a loop and switch over to strobe

that's not true, but maybe it's true. But um, you know, I know

they wanted to do that, I wouldn't necessarily want to see

something like WPPI or TPM switch to using constants

exclusively. But I think a mixture is important, I think

it's really important to be able to show photographers that

ultimately, outside of the physics element light is light,

whether it's coming from an incandescent bulb, whether it's

coming from the sun, whether it's coming from a strobe,

whether it's coming from a constant light, light is light,

and of course light behaves differently. And we can talk

about CRI and skin tones and get into the nerdy aspect. But for

our purposes, 95% of the time, light is light. And I think it's

important for people to get away from the dogma and from the

sales pitches and go oh, fuck, like, I can literally have a

light bulb from my house and make world class art, I do not

need to have a $5,000 strobe with a $5,000 modifier on it. I

also think that it allows us to educate better when we're

working with constant light. So that did throw me for a loop.

And in fact, with the production team when I was talking to them

before, before, you know, WPPI actually took place I was like,

Listen, if there's constant light, please give me that

because then you don't have the trigger issue. And I think for

me, that's the hardest thing I guess if I if I was going to

summarize this is if you're a new or photographer, new ish, if

you're new to let's say, studio lighting, or whatever we want to

say you're not comfortable, we don't even need to use the word

new. I think that's probably wrong. You're not comfortable

with studio lighting. And now you have 30 Fucking people

behind you. And you've been waiting in line for 30 minutes,

and it's someone you really want to photograph and you're already

fucking trepidatious and you might be taking that Xanax just

enough, you know, in your fucking shaking. And you're

like, Hello, my name is Chris and I you I love your look and

and now you have this fucking light you've never worked with,

you've never mounted a trigger onto your camera. You don't know

why your screen is black because of exposure compensation. And

you're sitting there and you have two minutes to create and

it feels like everything is going fucking wrong. That's a

shitty experience. Yep. I think that for me was harder than

anything else was seeing someone who is so excited and so fucking

elated. Then look at their camera go Johnny, why is it

black, and I'm like, listen, it's for this reason, I've never

used your camera. If you take it to Canon, Fuji Sony, they'll fix

it for you come back, I'll make sure your first but it was so

defeating for them. So it adds an unnecessary layer of

technical complexity to people who are already struggling with

the technical side of our craft. And I think that is very, very

unfortunate. So I would love to see the reintroduction of

constant and I don't care. It could be Nan light, it could be

aperture, it could be go docks, I have no invested interest. But

I think just to allow people to be more invested in the creative

process rather than technical minutiae. That is huge, because they're

now looking at you to be not only the model and

the teacher, but also the technical expert on their

specific camera model from their specific platform on their

specific firmware that they haven't updated because they

didn't know they could update it. That was one thing that I

saw over and over and over and primarily with Nikon shooters,

that their exposure compensation settings buried like 37 menus

deep. And it was unfortunate because I saw great shooters

with great ideas. Yeah, struggling with the technical

side. And I think that does add into the frustration it takes

you out of the element. It takes you out of the process, and all

that good energy that you had just spills out all over the

floor. You got defeated by your camera. You know one thing I

would have liked to have seen because Profoto did a great job

in the production team are the unsung heroes of the LM

and everyone else on that team are fucking the

real MVPs and heroes, watching

Kelan and Matt just crushed the entire show. I

mean, it just nonstop. I can't imagine what's on their

shoulders and they crushed it. But having technical experts in

the shooting Bay Area, a Profoto, representative or two,

yeah, right, going back and forth, just making sure that

people understand how to use the trigger, maybe talking about the

product a little bit. It's

a missed opportunity for these brands to

me too. And obviously, like, I'm a single fucking solo LLC, right

guy, and he's in the suburbs of Denver in this, you know,

generational area where I'm basically surrounded by

nothingness or people who are in their 70s, who want to give me

antique. So like, I am very isolated in that way, not

isolated, like you. But I mean, so you take this Profoto idea.

The other brilliant thing is, if I was Profoto, not only would I

want my technical experts there to do that, but if the line is

20 people long walk that line, every party, you're going to be

coming up, let's do this, let's do that. It allows for a level

of interactivity and service that could directly translate

into revenue. And it's not to say sell to us at all points in

time. But for more of a consultative element to be like,

Hey, have you ever used strobes before? No, you haven't? Are you

on Nikon? Let's make sure this setting is right. Big enough

value that would fucking add would be substantial. The

comfort that that would create would be amazing, the stress

that would alleviate would be fantastic. And especially for

the person who's running the booth, or for the model, they're

now not being confronted with that in that two minute period

that has already been addressed and is taken care of. So this

person can focus on what it is they are doing. And yeah, I

think it's you know, sometimes you get thrown to the wolves,

there is an understaffing element to all of these things

always everywhere in life. Now, you know, if you're going to

have someone running a booth, they should have worked with

those strobes or gotten a crash course on it, even if it's a

basic video thing, like, this is how you swap a battery. This is

how you reset the transmitter. These are the basic things and

even having a laminated sheet for them to say like If This

Then That, here are the three steps like unplug the modem to

start, give it 10 seconds and plug it back in. That's hugely

empowering for everyone. So I couldn't agree more with that.

And there is that that that sort of sad element of the timer

thing like I did not run a timer the first day WPPI production

quickly gave me a handler day to to run a timer for me. Yeah. Now

that was kind of odd, because everyone was self managing. And

I would address them and I would just talk to the crowd and mass

and say, Hey, listen, I'm not going to run a fucking timer.

Number one, I don't have the ability to number two, we're all

adults. If you take a little bit longer, or you're a little bit

shorter, but let's be courteous, you can feel the energy. When

people are like, alright, Matt, you've done fucking enough get

out of the way. You know, when you're overreaching, let's self

manage, because we're adults, let's self manage because we're

a community. And I get that that's not necessarily feasible

for every place and time but that hardline two minutes, even

when I was shooting it a couple of days when we were together at

TPM, I got in and I got that one light turned off. And by the

time I turn that light off, got my camera settings fiddled, went

in and talked to the model who was there and said, Hey, I'm

Johnny, what's your name? You're a fucking badass. Thank you so

much for killing it. And step back. It was brought to you at

47 seconds and I was like, Oh, shit. Okay, now it's time to go

in for me. The trigger wasn't registering properly with my hot

shoe. So I was dealing with an exposure compensation issue. And

I just shot with the black screen. And what a lot of people

don't realize is on mirrorless that actually affects not only

what you're seeing, but the focus based on how stop down the

lenses. So then your camera's guessing while you're guessing

in the strobes firing at random fucking times you like I hope I

get something that's fucking great. And you might walk into

something and you walk away shaking and you're like, Oh,

look at this great photo that I kind of made, but was kind of

made for me just based on chance and happenstance. Yeah, I love

the idea of the settings thing that you said too. I think that

even if it wasn't three defined setting, saying all right,

people were working with strobes. We're locking in our

ISO and our shutter speed. However, here's three different

aperture settings for low key high key middle of the ground,

really dark shadows, really bright shadows somewhere in

between and saying, shoot with all of this, see what you want,

because what people would do, especially since I'm a well

known photographer, as well, as they take a shot, I'm like, hey,

what do you think of it? They're like Johnny, what do you think

and I do doesn't fucking matter what I think. Like, I'm not here

to portfolio review. I'm not here to create for you. Do you

want bright shadows? No, well, then that's probably not good.

Let's darken those up. Right So giving people some levity or

some like space to play in a way that still safe in a way that's

still predefined, but where there's some fucking switch

there would be monumental. And then someone gets to decide for

themselves. If they own the brain that's between their two

ears. I like it darker, I like it brighter, and then they start

to develop a way of critically evaluating their images. So in a

very direct but indirect way we start to better equip these

artists to evaluate their own work and what it is they want to

do and why. And so we're not just having someone recite verse

we're helping them actually develop the language skills to

compose verse of their own. And that is massive

at portrait masters in Arizona last year

when I was in helping in the booth when people would come up.

And before you know, someone would be shooting the next

person in line, I'd be having a conversation with them saying,

so what is it that you have in your mind? What's the look that

you want to have? And is this how you would set things up? And

they might say something like, Yep, this is exactly what I

wanted, or I've never used strobes before. Or, you know, I

usually only use one light that at least gave me information to

say we're going rate, I understand what your level and

capability is. Do you want to stretch that? Or do you just

want to shoot your style? Or do you want to shoot for a properly

exposed photo, as listed on the settings on their beautiful

white poster board? Do you want that? My intention was to just

get people to think critically about what it is that they want

it to slow down a little bit, have some intention, and tell me

what it is that they saw in their head so that I could help

them create that? Yes, I did not want them like they were doing

to you say what do you think of this? I would always turn that

around. What do you think of it? Yeah, totally. Right. So you

know, in thinking and brainstorming like we are about

how to make this experience better. From a shooting Bay

perspective, I had alluded way early in this conversation to

Peter Hurley section down the end, I was wondering if it would

be possible to create a cordoned off area just for shooting base

kinda like they had in the TPM portion earlier in the week. And

have in that main hall, a cordoned off area for nothing

but shooting base have a limited amount of people having like a

bouncer Yonsei, there's only 100 people allowed for these 30

Shooting bays at a given time, and you've got an encounter in

and out counter when someone then you let someone else.

Right, and in a way that allows people to not feel the chaos and

the pressure and the intensity of it all. And they walk around

and they shoot what they shoot, whether you have time slots, or

whether it's a one in one out thing, capacity issue. I feel

like by removing that into its own area, yeah, that Yeah, it'll

be crowded at times. And it will be, you know, good flow all day

long. But it's not going to hinder getting to some of the

other booths as well. And it's not taking away from the

vendors. And if you want it to have vendors or other high

profile educators wandering around the shooting Bay Area,

awesome. That just adds to it. I feel like we're trying to

combine too much into the trade show portion. And we're

sacrificing creativity for commerce. Right. And there's,

yeah, there's the balance that everybody that's ever organized

a trade show how to wrangle with right. And it's not an easy

task. Yep. But I'm wondering if more people are leaning into

having that shooting experience, making that its own thing,

Disneyland pass instead of going on Photowalks. I've got my $150

ticket. And that allows me into a private shooting bay area as

much as I want during the week to learn different things to

work with different lighting, rather than just having an

avenue of shooting base, creating an experience out of it

that is attached to but somewhat separated from the main

tradeshow era. Oh, great. What were some of the best things

that you saw at the show?

I think what probably probably my favorite

things that I saw had nothing to do with the shooting bays had

nothing to do with the vendors. It was seeing people who let's

say only knew each other online from across the world and

running to each other, like a cinematic film and jumping into

each other's arms going, oh my god, I finally get to meet you.

I finally get to say hello, I finally get to hang out with

you. You've helped me so much. We've known each other for years

now we get to be present as people. So that humanistic

element saying the same thing in the hallways and people being

like, Oh my God, oh, it's so and so wonderful. Hey, can I get

this and get that like that was really really beautiful to me.

It felt so innocent. And it felt so cool and wholehearted and it

was such an aside to the chaos and the commerce and all of

these other things that sort of define so much of this to just

see people genuinely excited and in passion to see one another

and to be present with one another that for me was was

absolutely brilliant. I love that there's some really amazing

educators and I love seeing the people who have notoriety, Be

gracious to actually stop and take the time to go like, Hey,

I'm exhausted. But oh my gosh, you said you love my work. I

have two minutes. But those two minutes are yours. Let's talk.

Let's take a selfie. So seeing people being human and operating

from that, sort of almost prerogative of humaneness was

brilliant. On the flip side, I saw some really ugly things,

where there were people of notoriety, who literally could

not be bothered to even smile at folks. And that felt really

fucked up. But the nice thing about that is the contrast

creates a beautiful differential where you see the people who

don't do that, and it makes the people who do that much more

significant and lauded. I mean, to be completely honest, since

we're this far into the conversation, some of the best

chats I had, were in the bathroom, no lie, like, I was

standing at a urinal, and someone came up there to down

space. And they're like, Hey, you're Johnny, right? You know,

doing the site. And I'm like, Yeah, I'm Johnny, what's going

on? And they're like, Yeah, you were killing it out there, man.

Like, I really want to come to your booth. That's phenomenal.

I'm like, Oh, where are you from? I'm from Madison,

Wisconsin. I shoot weddings. Oh, what do you want to get into?

And so over the course of this, streaming, 30 or 45 seconds, you

know, we connected as human beings and we're washing our

hands, and it's like, Hey, I hope to see you tonight. Are you

going somewhere? So you know, even you talking about that

elements of things being removed, I would love to just

see like, an off floor lounge. And it doesn't have to be a

quiet space. But in one of the other rooms, it's like, Hey, do

you need to reset like we're gonna essentially use library

voices. We're gonna have some ambience musics, and she'll stop

playing, there's fucking chamomile tea and water. You can

come in and you can just sit amongst everyone else and just

be like, Hey, we're just people here. And we don't have to be in

motion. We don't have to be achieving. We don't have to be

producing. We don't have to be purchasing, we can just be

present with one another. There's so much power in that.

And that's a hard thing to quantify. But for me, that was

my, my favorite thing. And I had that happen. You'll Vaughn is a

perfect example of this. Um, she's this, you know, spark plug

of a woman from Serbia and is really amazing. And we've been

talking for a long time and she literally ran up and was like,

throwing Muay Thai elbows at people to get through the crowd

and just jumped on to me and Kelly robots. I was there. And

she was like, what was this? Okay, I'm like, It's fine. It's

fine. But it was hilarious. And she's like, Oh, my god, god, my

image is being judged right now. I have to get in there. And I'm

like, I hope you do. Well. She's like, I don't even get a shit

about that. It's just nice to meet you. So those moments

between moments were fucking amazing. Us at the Capri. You

know, just sitting there dancing and looking around and being

like, all right, for a second, there is no hierarchy. There is

not like, oh, you're a professional and you're a

hobbyist. Oh, you're an educator. Oh, you're an artist.

Oh, this Oh, that there's just people who are you know, getting

near three sheets to the wind, Double fisting drinks, kind of

bobbing around like night at the Roxbury going, Oh, this is

fucking cool. Together. That was lovely. Because there were no

errors. There was no presupposition, it was just

like, Oh, we're all fucking here. And none of us know what

we're doing. And we're all trying to fucking figure it out.

And we're all spiraling into entropy. And we're all gonna go

back home and go, What the fuck just happened. But for these

very ephemeral moments, we're just like, Alright, we're here.

And we're together. And we're enjoying this. And that's enough

hard stop. period on the fucking sentence.

Yeah, I found I found that quite a bit,

especially at that big party, that I did look around at one at

one moment, and everybody was just really cool with each

other, which is a big contrast to the same party, same club

last year where there was just a really strange vibe to it, they

did a great job. And you know, you'd mentioned one thing about,

you know, having these kind of like chill rooms when I was

going to SHOT Show for a lot of years over at the Venetian in

the sands. One of my friends companies would have a suite,

and a good size suite that was opened the entire week, they

spent a good amount of money on it. It was basically a Delta sky

lounge, you know, where you could wander in and out there

was always someone there from the company. Yep. And people

could just go, you didn't have to be like, Oh, if it's the

Profoto suite, you didn't have to go up and talk about Profoto.

It was literally just cheese and crackers and drinks and quiet

and good internet. And it wasn't so removed from the show floor

that you felt like you had to walk to another hotel to get

there. It was, you know, a conference room that they had

commandeered and turned into this. And it was great. Because

if someone did want to slip away and get off the floor, just so

you could have a conversation be like, Hey, let's go over to

Johnny's, you know, suite and talk in there for a few minutes.

And it was great. And I really enjoyed that. And that's not

something that I saw and maybe I just didn't know about them and

that they existed but outside of the staff rooms. I don't think

anything like that existed. And it could be a good A thing you

know, hey, this, this lounge sponsored by Profoto on Tuesday

sponsored by figma. On Wednesday, write whatever, and

have it be a place that people can go and just relax a little

bit. They did something like that at portrait masters in

Arizona they did. They had like quiet rooms of beanbag chairs

and whatnot. And it was pretty cool idea. So I'm just wondering

if that can if that can grow to scale, or if it would just be

unmanageable. I don't.

And you even even talking about that makes me

think, you know, not once again, not to shit on anything or be

overly critical, but like just better signage in general. You

know, like, just no one knew where the fuck they were going.

Most of the time, even me being on production being on modeling.

And this isn't a knock on production. They did phenomenal

relative to the cards. They were dealt, but like when I had to go

eat the first day I was on the show floor. They were like, oh,

it's in Montego D. And then someone's like, well, there is

no Montego, there's Montenegro. And I'm asking everyone who has

a bad she looks like their hotel staff or security. So no one

knows. And finally, he just started walking. And I saw

someone with a plate of food. And I was like, it has to be

that way. And I just wandered into this corridor into a door.

But there were no signs anywhere that said anything. So I think

people you know, like there's so much going on. And there is so

much overstimulation that even to go well, like, yeah, it's the

place where Pratik had his class. And you're like, that was

24 hours ago, and I dumped all of that information out of

necessity. Um, so just having some guideposts or people who

are just roving going like, Oh, where are you going? What are

you trying to get to? Is that for TPM, or WPPI? You just

trying to register it, hopefully getting an anchor point. So

something like registration doesn't move. So then you get

there. And they're like, oh, it's an you know, archive, see,

and you're an archive, see, they're like, no, actually, it's

in blue and a now. And that's exactly three football fields

away that way. And you have to knock on the door and say,

banana to get into the basement to get your badge. And it's just

unnecessary brain damage for everybody. If any of this is

something we can do a thing about, right? Let's remove it

from the equation. It's sort of like obviously, this maximalist

thing going right now, but like in my photography, generally

speaking, I'm like, does this element say something in the

frame? If not, let's remove it. So all of those unnecessary

obstacles that can be addressed. All that that means is that

people are going to have a better experience, they're going

to be more connected, they're going to be more immersed,

they're going to be more joyful, they're going to be more

creative, like we have a finite amount of energy as human

beings. So let's not make people allocate that finite energy to

things that we could address on their behalf from from the

forefront of it. And that's for me, that's what it really sort

of boils down to. For

me, the energy this year was definitely better

than it was last year. I think, you know, there were more

people, there was definitely more excitement around

everything. I two met a ton of people that I had never met in

real life. And that felt really cool to actually be able to

shake the hands of people and give hugs to people that I've

known for years and never met in person. You know, I spent a lot

of time with my friend Bassam, who I've known for years. And

we, he lives five hours north of me, and we've never, we've never

met. So it was good to spend a lot of time with him. The

vendors this year, were very well curated. Maybe the vendors

just came back that haven't been there for a few years. And it

seemed like there was just a better energy amongst the

vendors, there was more to look at more to play with more to

see. And it was it was a really good time. And there were a

couple of things that I really loved about the show. And there

were a couple of things that I didn't like. And I think we've

talked about stuff we didn't like, but what I what I did love

in the TPM summit in the portrait masters Summit, was the

fact that there was one room where we all got to see all the

speakers, there was no running from place to place. It was just

you had your seat, you had your room, it felt intimate, it felt

good. It was very engaging. And I really like that setting. But

again, you've got 8000 people in an area or logistics, right? So

I'm not I'm not bashing anything. But I think that's one

of the things that I loved because it just felt better. It

felt smaller and more communal. I started looking across the

industry. There are a ton of photography podcasts that are

not technically focused, right, you've got Nikki doing the

portrait system, which is nominal from a business

standpoint. You've got podcasts out there that are very focused

on no pun intended, very focused on the technical aspects of

things. There's room for so much more personality in this space.

Should there be a gossip podcasts or should it be an

industry news where you know, it's like 62nd industry Use,

I do think that there is a sort of pervasive

self imposed stoicism, right? Yeah. Where we take everything

so seriously. And shooting is serious. And what we do is

serious and making money is serious and, and there's all of

this weight to all of it. And I think I'm a I tend to be a

counterpoint to that just because I'm a big personality

and I laugh at myself and I laugh at the world. And, you

know, I'm an ass and I'm an asshole. And I'm also a really

amazing person. And all of these things sort of coexist. So yeah,

I think that there needs to be more space just for fucking fun.

Fun, right? Yes, for fucking fun. And I think that even goes

back to the idea that we were talking about knocked up,

diverge back into the shooting Bay thing, but like, that's why

Mitzie thing was so great. Because it was all so serious in

there were serious models seriously style, doing very

serious things. And then she was over there with these really

radiant human beings be like, pretend like you just had a Jack

in the Box popping you in? Because it was such a

counterpoint to the austerity of so much else. Right. So not only

do I think there is space for that, I think it's a fucking

necessity. I think it's it's a natural part of human emotion.

Like we need a space to be vulnerable. And that's also

something that's missing. Like, where do we get together and not

talk about it from an analytical standpoint, but just say, You

know what, that like, I'm not sure I want to do this anymore.

I don't think that I'm any fucking good. Like, I might just

want to sell the business. I'm not making six figures right

now. In fact, I'm struggling to make fucking five. And there's

someone banging on my door right now who might break my kneecaps,

like, that type of thing needs to be spoke about. But we just

need to laugh at the joy of it at the absurdity of it, of the

fact that this is what we do and how we do it and bring some

other emotions in so that we could be more whole, as

individuals and as a community and embrace the entirety of

this. And I even have to do that at workshops. Sometimes there'll

be this thing and everyone's so focused, it's like, well, I

need, I need to get the shot. And this needs to go into

fucking photo VO. And I need to make two steps forward. And this

is going to result in 710 K sales. And I'm like, Listen,

this isn't a knock on anyone. But for a second, can we just

just admire the fact or appreciate the fact that we're

in the fucking first world. We're in a beautiful studio,

we're all eating fucking, you know, like noodles and curry.

We're photographing beautiful humans as beautiful humans, like

this is fucking pretty amazing. And let's just laugh at the fact

that we all happen to have converged at this point, and the

butterfly fucking effective all of this, that we happen to not

only be alive, but alive together, making fucking art in

a world that's on fire.

All week, you and I had kind of had our

different stresses. Yeah. And getting through the workshop,

really, at the end of the at the end of the week really started

to set the tone for that Friday night. Yep. So last Friday night

of WPPI. The show it ended on Thursday, we do the trade show.

We do the workshop all day Friday. And then we have to pack

up all the gear and send it back to Nan right. And I just like

you from your first person perspective, to talk about what

happened because we had a great team pack up all of these lights

that Nan light had sent us.

So this is this is for any of you once again who

haven't been involved in production. This is a little bit

of insight into how these things actually unfold or fail to

unfold. Wonderful day. We it was such a once again such a great

day, we ended on a good note everyone was fucking dead on

their feet. You know, like Matt had said earlier by 2pm people

like ordered food in and there's just people with like, you know,

subs halfway and their mouths staring at the ceiling. Like

they're on you know hoarse doses of Xanax and ketamine, they're

just fucking gone. Because it's been an exhausting week and for

all the right reasons, but it's still overwhelming. And so this

ends and we're wrapping up and we have all of this stuff to

break down we have six sets, we have the gear that we brought

in, we have Paulina stuff we have now in light stuff, we have

to separate out everything from Black Box studios. And

thankfully, Matt was there Kayla Douglas was there, Rick Lewis

was there and we had a bunch of attendees who are like, I'm in

it for the fucking long haul, which I'm so grateful for. I

kept trying to get rid of them. I'm like, you paid me to be

here. You do not need to help and they're like, fuck you. I

didn't help because I want to be of service. And I was like,

Alright, I'm gonna put my ego aside and say, You know what, if

you're giving me your hands, I'm gonna put them to work because

you just lucked out. So anyway, we do this in mass as a team.

And you know, some people are really experienced with this.

Some people are and there's nothing wrong with that. So

we're just trying to make sure the right lights go into the

right boxes, gear gets separated basic logistical stops. So we

get into this and then we realize we don't have the

shipping labels. This is the first thing right? And let me

backtrack for a second NAMM light was kind enough to send

this literal trailer worth of fucking gear, this veritable

palette to the Mirage to make things easier. Well, it came via

UPS unbeknownst to me and our Arrived at FedEx. So the first

surprise was before we're breaking down is picking it up.

And you know, the people at FedEx are like, Oh yeah, there's

a $250 handling fit. And I was like, What do you mean, you

receive packages? You received a package like that's what you do.

It'd be like getting charged a grill fee for a steak or

hamburger. And you're like, how else do you make this sir? Mess?

Whoever. So that was fine. That was an incidental cost. But we

get it. We get it over there. We don't have enough space. We had

to get Uber excels. I literally got put into the back of a

truck, like a Tetris piece, and probably dislodged multiple

vertebra being stuck in the back of this fucking truck, like a

minion. And I'm already small, but I got cut in half, quite

literally. So anyway, we're packing all this stuff up, and

we realize, oh, fuck, we don't have the shipping labels. And so

everyone pauses and we were in such great momentum, and we're

all shooting the shit. And we're dancing and we have music on.

You were telling jokes. Were just there. As people in a hush

falls over the crowd. All of the energy that was up here suddenly

comes down, out of the room. It's a whisper, and I'm like,

Hey, everyone. You're all doing great. But the reality is, we

don't have the labels, and we need to open up and unbox

everything that we just backed up. Because without those, we

can't do anything. And to everyone's fucking credit, they

took it on the chin, and everyone's like, that's fine.

We're gonna make this happen. So everyone starts unboxing. I

can't remember exactly who it was who found it. But someone

finds it and it was like the winning Lotto number, they

hauled it all. And it was like fucking a scene from The Lion

King, we all looked off and we're chanting. So you know, it

was the sun rising in prehistoric times. And we're

like, fuck you're in. So that's fine. So we get back to what

we're doing. And we're read duct taping and we're repacking, and

we're doing this, we're doing that we're getting everything

segmented. And now we're looking at time, and we're like, holy

shit. Like, if we don't get these boxes out to ship.

Tonight, we're gonna have to do it tomorrow. We have no way to

stage these in hotel rooms. We only have one predominant

vehicle. We're already renting things we have to make this

happen tonight. So I find a FedEx store. That's open until

eight. And it's Friday fucking night on the strip. So it was

empty the day before it is now Hey, OS, like absolute chaos,

like LA freeway meets fucking and apocalyptic movie. And

Paulinus husband Bill and I are like what could do in this so we

throw all of these boxes into the back of the truck. We're

wedging things in we're trying to figure out you know how

things can't fall out. I basically have my head out the

window like a watchdog. So it's stoplight some unsavory

character isn't gonna steal one of these lights and take it to a

pawn shop. It's fucking insane. But like, everyone's on Hi, back

at the studio Bill and I are driving we're stuck in traffic,

there was a brokedown Corvette from the 80s that held the

traffic like it was it was not it was like it was something of

an indie movie, you know, there's just this sort of like

EDM soundtrack playing in the back. And I'm like, Bill, if

this doesn't work out, you know, what are we going to do? And

he's like, you know, maybe we'll just drive off a cliff. And I

was like, yeah, that'd be swayed. And so we're in this

pseudo existential, pseudo excited, pseudo exhausted state,

and we get there, and we have the fucking truck is loaded. And

so we put all of these on flatbeds and we get in and out

of doing a jig. It's like the Joker coming down and do there

is you may walk in Phoenix, I have fucking Sinatra playing, I

backpedal. And guys, like, what's up, guys? And we're like,

we got to ship this stuff out. It's gonna be fucking amazing.

I'm getting ready to wipe the slate clean. And he's like,

where are the labels? And I was like, boss, the labels are on

the fucking box, right? Where we flip them, you can take a peek

right there. And he's like, Ah, man, what the fuck do you these

are UPS labels, you're at FedEx. That that uncomfortable? Pause

is exactly what happened. So for me, everything came I was

received at FedEx. And I'm like, Alright, there was a handling

fee. So whatever is going on with the shipping, it can go out

via FedEx. That's what was at The Mirage now. And because all

of us were so utterly exhausted, none of us took a look at the

labels. We were not out of this team of 10. And so I'm like,

fuck, okay. Who's open UPS wise? No one man, all the ups closes.

So now I'm dealing with the fact that we're in a 24 hour fucking

city Sin City where, like, places closed down at 6pm on a

Friday night. So I'm calling access points literally for UPS.

I'm like, listen, I know you guys only deal with drivers.

I'll throw you fucking undos like I got money in my back

pocket. I'll rub your back. I'll you know be godfather to your

first child, whatever the fuck and they're like Sorry, sir.

We'd love to help you. We can. So Bill and I get the bright

idea of fuck it like we're going to try and go to a Walgreens.

Right? Like they have a UPS store. They're probably not

equipped to handle this, but I'm like someone there need some

fucking money. I'll ply the trade. I'll do whatever I need

to fucking do like I'll don a Walgreens outfit and dance on

the strip for the next four hours. Just to bring people into

a place they can get cheaper booze, whatever the fuck. So

we're heading to this Walgreens and then we realize it's the

Walgreens on the strip, the eponymous strip Walgreens. And

we're like, well, that's not going to fucking work. So we get

stuck in traffic. I'm calling Matt. I'm calling Paulina. I'm

like, Hey, things are fought. I don't know what we're gonna do,

we need to schedule a pickup, we need to do this. So anyway, it's

just this fucking thing. And I'm now my wit's end was an hour

ago, was what three debacle is ago. So I'm just sitting in the

truck Deadeye like a shark, just staring at these neon lights,

and I can't even I'm not even upset. I don't even have the

energy to be upset. I'm just fucking completely convalesced.

And so we show up. And everyone's like, what are we

going to do, and I'm gonna be, let's just let's unpack it. I'm

like, it just has to go back inside. And so we come up with

this plan where Paulina, and Bill are going to take care of

it in the morning, and they're going to get an Uber XL. I'm

considering changing my flight. I can't do the app, because it's

just madness, with people trying to fly out, we come up with this

fucking plan. And it ended up working out like credit to

Pauline and Bill, thank you black box studios for letting us

stay there. They were so kind, they didn't even charge us for

the staging of the extra hours, the best of humanity, like

people fucking came together. And we're like, Listen, this is

a problem. But in the scheme of life, it's really not a problem.

Let's fucking pivot and make it work. And so we get with a plan.

And now Matt and I are going back to the Mirage. And I'm just

like, we're sitting in the back. And now it's like, how are you?

And I'm like, I don't even know. Like, how are you? And he's just

like, like, we're both speaking in evangelical tongues. There

weren't even word big enunciate. We're both just like primitive

grunts.

It was at that point that I realized I hadn't

eaten all day, right? I'm the type that will go go go and then

realize, Oh, God, I have not even low blood sugar, I have no

blood, or whatever. And I'll crash. And that's exactly what

the way that I was feeling. At the end of the workshop. Now I

snacked kind of throughout the day, but never really had too

much of substance. And so sitting in the back of this

truck, on the way back to the hotel theater, killing me, we've

just had this amazing, like emotional day. And then the

problem that we have to solve, and all I'm thinking is like, I

just have to get back to the hotel room. Take a quick shower,

I need something to eat really bad. So we get back. And because

it's Friday night, and all week, I had brought out with me a an

edible chocolate bar, a 200 milligram edible chocolate bar

that was going to manage me throughout the week, and it was

doing great. It was mainly for sleep at night, make sure that I

can sleep a little bit. And I had a couple of pieces left,

probably, I don't know, 40 milligrams worth of chocolate.

Now, here's where it gets fun. So we go back to the room. You

and I sitting there just dead. I'd like sharp and I'm

exhausted. I'm like, Alright,

you go. Let's go get dinner somewhere. Everybody

that we knew was basically gone. I'm like, let's go get sushi

downstairs and hang out. What I'm going to do is I'm going to

take a little bit of this chocolate bar right now. And

then we could just kind of groove on a Friday night.

Totally not intending to do what I did, which was take that get

dressed in in my low blood sugar haze of my brain. I took the

other half now. Now I would that's it. I was just hungry.

And I was just eating chocolate. And I realized, oh no, I've made

a disastrous error and wind up realizing that I took in the

night taking about 3540 milligrams of this chocolate

bar. And I go that's a lot for me. Given what I'm about to do.

We go downstairs to the the sushi restaurant. And we have

the same waiter that we had had a couple of nights prior. Yep.

And he seemed a little bit aggressive. On this night. He

was great. The first night we were there. Yeah, we kept him

well, I don't know why he was aggressive. But he kept coming

over and we were both still sober at this point.

Yeah. Relatively lucid. Is

Is he like fucking with us a little bit?

What's going on? So it brings up the socket, we're having socket.

But everything out of his mouth was like, looking at us a little

weird. And I start to have these moments of paranoia where I'm

like, is he dosing our food? Like did he put something in the

socket and he's just waiting for us? Because everything is just a

little bit weird. So we're sitting there and we're having a

good time. And then it happened. Everything kicked in at once.

When they put those first person cameras on, you know, and it's

facing the person's face and they're looking around and the

whole angle Little is just this real dystopian view of what

person is experiencing, and they're stumbling through a

party. And sometimes it's like hyperlapse. That's what I felt

like was starting to happen. I look up for my meal, and I look

at you and you've got eyes, the sides of Frisbees, and you're

looking at me going, oh, yeah, we're in the same place, aren't

we? And I said, Yeah, this is gonna get weird. We need to

settle up and get out of here immediately. But let's use the

restroom first. And we get up and start walking through the

casino, and we do one lap around the casino. And then we do

another lap because we just kept taking rights. And we wound up

at the same spot. We're like, I can't do another lap. So we're

like, alright, let's let's hit The Strip. And just go outside

get some fresh air. We started walking out of the four exit

because we couldn't find it for some reason couldn't find a

restroom at The Mirage. Yeah, don't ask why just

we got we got stuck in the casino floor loop.

Like we were just literally, it was like Groundhog Day.

So we find this this exit and it's by the Rum

Bar in the cafeteria. So we go out, and we just start walking,

we get outside and we get hit with that fresh, fresh air and

it feels so good. And it's the lights of the strip. And I'm

standing there and I'm going, we made a disastrous error here as

well. Because now we've got to deal with the strip, keep it

together, keep it together, keep it together, keep it together.

Now, at this point, my high is getting more and more and more.

And I'm just starting to feel super groovy. And when I get

like that I shut down and I'm observing everything and we're

walking by street performers that are awful. Just not good

street performers at all playing Oregon's playing guitars playing

pipes. I don't know what they were playing. But it felt like

walking the 20 yards past. This guy playing in Oregon, took us

45 minutes and it very well may have taken us 45 minutes. But

we're walking. So that's happening. I'm getting freaked

out. I look over you. You're just laughing at me because I'm

freaked out. But you're freaked out too. So we keep walking. All

of a sudden, a woman starts running at us full bore. I don't

know what's happening, but she takes off. Suddenly, a guy's

chasing her with a full beer in his hand. Yep. I think he had

just robbed him of his phone and took off. I tried to chase like

grabbed it out of his hand while he was talking and just ran. And

he winds up tripping over a curb and eating it. And everybody was

like, Oh, no one looking to help them. No one's came out and

we're like, Look at this guy. But world. I'm like we just

witnessed a crime. Yep, walking forward. Keep walking straight

in the distance. We see Caesars Caesars must have a bathroom

because moth to a flame it's a beacon. There was literally no

place to just turn off into like an In and Out Burger or

something to use the restroom. So we're like, Alright, let's go

into the casino. Now after a week of being at WPPI in the

Mirage, now the Mirage, if you haven't been to Vegas is kind of

like the middle aged couple of the Vegas casinos where they

kind of want to go out and party a little bit but you know,

around 11 o'clock, you kind of dead you know, as opposed to

like ARIA or Cosmo which are much younger and hipper and the

Mirage is a great place. But it's just kind of like a middle

aged married couple of

80s Nostalgia vibe about at the sound. Yeah. So

we're like

all right there Caesars. Let's get into Caesars

and we walked in. I was ready for what we experienced. I don't

know what went through your mind when we went in there. But all I

saw when I walked in was like Russian mobsters. Bright lights

a line for the nightclub? Yeah, Omnia, that was there. That line

and you and I are walking in. You're dressed the way you're

dressed. I'm in like a Canadian tuxedo, rolling in in a

turtleneck in a denim jacket. I could not have felt more out of

place. And it wasn't just the drug paranoia that was going on.

We were literally there was

like 12 women from South America dressed like

Leeloo from the fifth element over girls dispersing and coming

together like a lava lamp. Like it was it was literally it was

it was a paragraph out or a fucking Hunter S Thompson trip

in real time that we were living into. We walked

for Caesars find the restroom and I go in. I go

in first. I'm like running recon apparently. So I go in and

standing there in there, too. Whoo Persian gentleman rather

sizable guys hammered, absolutely hammered in the

corner. Speaking to each other, I don't understand a word that

they're saying. But it starts to get a little bit heated. Like

they're having that drunk friend argument. Then one of them does

that slow motion turnaround I can see in the mirror, slow

motion and focus on me because I'm the other human in the room.

And he starts going a, and I'm like, no, just stare at the wall

mat, stare at the wall, and starts wandering over to me. And

I'm just like, out of there. And there were multiple anti

chambers in this bathroom. It was like looking at this endless

hallway. There's no way I'm getting out of here. So do a

loop around Caesars and the strange feeling of I don't

belong. But I didn't belong. And we needed to get out of there

quickly. Now. Did you see anything in there? I'd love your

your thoughts. I can remember every step that I took in every

face that I saw and trying to get out of this place. Was there

anything weird that you saw, as we know, it was? It was

it was such an odd crowd. It was just it's hard to

even typify. I don't know, it was like a sort of like a Chad

convention mixed with like a division to like lower tier frat

party. But if everyone was wearing masks of the same

person, everyone was dressed slightly differently, but looked

identical. And they all had this like similar despondence where

they weren't even excited to be there. And the tables were

insane. And everything was insanely good. It was like that

the verbs bittersweet Symphony video, so we were walking and

not only did we stand out, no matter which way we walked, we

were countered to the flow of the way everyone else was

walking, just getting shoulder checked by these like

emotionless, like Pink Floyd knights, just mindlessly

walking. And that was my bit too. I'm like, Oh, my God, I'm

drowning in a sea of people. But it's not even people. It's just

like a mass of the same person, we have to get the fuck out of

this place. The buzz was going but it was starting to turn

south a little bit.

We're like, Alright, let's get back outside,

let's get back to the hotel, this was clearly a bad idea, to

walk a mile and a half to take a piss and then walk all the way

back right? We could have accomplished this at The Mirage.

But you know, adventure, as we leave, we get out, we get back

to the Mirage we walk in now we've got to navigate the Mirage

again. And we're like, Alright, there's no way that we're going

to be able to get from the entrance to our room in one

piece, we should probably stop halfway and have a drink at the

bar. So we start walking to set a bar. And as for blocking, I,

I'm walking to help the center all the way and you're to my

left. And I'm basically hugging the right side of the pathway.

And I can see this couple coming out of the slots like in there's

a pillar in the way so they were going to come behind the pillar

and then widen. And I saw this happening. And I knew that they

were going to present right in front of us. And as I'm walking,

they came out exactly where they were supposed to scared the shit

out of me. I jumped. In my mind, I was just like, Oh, that was a

little startling. In reality, I think you could probably say, if

you were at like an elite CrossFit game and

someone who was doing a box jump in reverse, but that person

happened to be Nosferatu. His fucking arms folded across his

chest and he hopped back like his life depended on it. And it

startled me. And in the moment that I saw it happening, I went

back to the default like I'm gonna laugh so hard. I'm gonna

have a fucking panic attack laugh. And so now Matt's frozen

upon hitting the ground, very athletic. I was very impressed.

And then these, this old couple who literally looked like they

could have been, I don't know, like a parody out of the Beverly

Hillbillies. just stands there, staring at us in time stops for

a moment called Matt. Matt is frozen in like the Heisman

trophy pose. I'm laughing so hard. I might actually piss my

pants. And then all of a sudden it's like the hyperlapse thing

or like the time scaling and video then time just starts

again. So slowed, it expands and contracts.

We get past that couple and we're pretty good.

You're nonstop laughing.

I'm dying. I'm like people are getting up to

see who's laughing so hard. I am just geeking out like 10%

Howling laughing we're like alright, let's go to

the center bar. So we go to the center bar and we sit down at

the bar. Now one thing you have to know about the center bar,

it's run by the all of bartending staff. They all seem

to have come from the same place. Isn't gang because they

were all built like they had spent years in a Thai prison.

The rest of their penalty was to serve drinks at the center bar.

And

one of the guys I spoke to before actually fought

Roy Jones Jr. I mean caliber to this like legitimate badass

dudes.

Well, the funny thing was, I'd sit at the bar.

And despite how we were feeling, we still held it together

relatively well. And there was zero sloppiness, but boy, oh,

boy, they hated serving people drinks. And I was watching it.

And I said, you know, Hey, can I have a couple of woodfords. And

the guy looks at me, he's just like, uh, now clearly, I

offended him in some way, shape, or form. In the music that was

playing the band that was playing, they were a cover band,

and they were fine. They were serviceable. And I turned

around, and I looked at them. And it was like, every eighth

grade substitute English teacher had gotten together and created

a cover band that was going to go play Las Vegas, they were

recapturing their youth. Every time I turned around, there was

another person appearing, there were some on the stage, there

were some that were standing off the stage, they're going on, the

guitarist started to walk around the bar and sit at people's

booths, lap, laps and riff. All I wanted to do is watch the band

from this point, because they played terribly. They had no

presence, there was no style, but I wanted nothing. But to get

these guys to play every event that I'm ever going to attend

again, it

became an exercise and people watching and so this

all sounds innocuous enough, but you have to once again reframe

relative to our states of mind, and what had preceded this, so

we're sitting there sipping on the Woodford that you know, no

one wanted to serve to us. Next to this people who didn't want

to be there. Having just had our you know, strange Nosferatu

strip mugging Chad convention experience both just wide eyed

and bushy tailed going. This is our last night in Vegas

together. All right, like just

trying to end the week with a meal and a

cocktail that's developed into this adventure. Right? And I

don't know at what point we finally called it a night, I

distinctly remember looking over and we

were getting to the end of whatever Woodford that was,

whether it's the third or fourth and I'm like, Matt, kinda kinda

think I want to go what do you think it was? Like? Yes,

absolutely. The switch got turned off on the receptivity to

all of the experience for the night and it was just like,

getting home like lost in the woods, follow the compass, there

has to be a road in that general direction. Let's hike out

as exhausted and as high. And as just mentally

spent. As I was on that last night. It absolutely made the

entire week come together. And I feel like all the stresses just

kind of washed away. What a great way to end the week. And I

can't say that. I've never done that in Vegas before. But this

was certainly the most memorable most visual night that ever. The

only thing that I could think from the outside

looking in as it must have looked like we looked like like

a B movie version of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. Sort of,

you know, we can't stop here because it's bad country is the

organist is playing the same three notes that sound that are

sounding so off key and ominous while we're just sauntering up

and down, drip like zombies, like these two morons

are coked out of their head and like, no, no,

we're near that. And we're on basically a chocolate bar and

Xanax exactly, like just trying to chill from a huge week. And I

think it's probably a great way to end this entire episode,

which I'll probably have to cut into several parts. But dude, it

was it was a ton of fun to see you. It's been amazing to kind

of go through the whole week again, what's next for you?

What's are you going? Are you going to have any workshops

coming up,

I have a workshop in April here in Denver on the

27th and 28th. It is sold out. And I'm very grateful for that.

So for those of you who are attending, thank you so much for

giving me the opportunity to be part of your journey. I'll be in

Seattle in early May at my friend Simon Diaz's studio. So

he's a badass who also partied way too hard. Every time I saw

that man, he was four sheets to the wind but having a great

time. In the end of May or mid May, I should say the 18th and

19th. I'll actually be in Harlem, New York running my

first workshop in New York in collaboration with Nat light. So

I haven't opened that up publicly yet. Now I'm late and I

have not made a public announcement. We'll call this

the official public announcement for that. But I'm really excited

to be in New York doing it. It's been something I've wanted to do

since I started Getting into education at all. So it feels

like an apex point for me. We're gonna be at this really rad

studio called uptown shots, which is a brilliant

multipurpose production studio there. And I'm definitely going

to be bringing my A game I'll probably be in New York for

about 10 days. I want to do some touristy things, eat some good

food, connect with a lot of people I know out there and

certainly work with, you know, some of the diversity and magic

that exists only in that city. So that will be a wild, wild

ride. And when I'm laughing hysterically, you know on too

many Xanax out on the streets in New York, I have a feeling I'll

blend in even more than I did in Las Vegas, which will be peachy

keen.

No one's gonna bat an eye.

I laugh like an asshole like I feel at home when

I'm in New York. I just people telling me to fuck off I tell

them to fuck off. And I'm like, all my heart strings are being

pulled at just the right time. And it's

cool, man. Well, I might. Maybe I'll try to be a

wedding crasher sometime in May and just drive down maybe I'll

pick up some people along the way and we'll just do a bus tour

and follow Yeah,

well let's go into get into like a West Side Story

as Brawl you know in the Bronx this dressed up similarly,

that'll be what actually takes us viral and makes makes us

famous. Is this snapping in denim on the streets of the

fucking Bronx? The art No, the mentor ship? No, the positivity.

Fuck no. Did you see them doing the shuffle in that Tiktok

video? Fuckin infamy immediately.

Thank you my friend. Again. Love your setup.

love talking to you, man. I love you as a human so I will. I'll

talk to you soon, man.

I look forward to it. Alright, take it easy.

Cheers, man.