Lance Rich, a magician, writer, and historian, shares his journey in the world of magic, focusing on his acclaimed book, "Neon Dreams: The Story of Las Vegas Magic." He discusses how he chronicled the rich history of magic in Las Vegas, highlighting notable figures including Gloria Dea, the first magician to perform on the Las Vegas Strip. Lance reflects on the impact of nostalgia as a gateway to understanding magic's history and emphasizes the importance of accessible storytelling. Through his insights, Lance inspires aspiring magic historians and writers to find their passion and create engaging narratives that resonate with a wider audience.

Coming up in this episode of the Magic Book Podcast.

Nostalgia is almost this, like this gateway drug, if you will, to history. My interest in history starts in the 90s because of mass market books.

It was "Conjuring" by James Randi, which told great stories about magicians throughout the years, and "The Encyclopedia of Magic" by Eddie Dawes and Arthur Setterington.

You're listening to The Magic Book Podcast, conversations about classic and contemporary books that teach, illuminate and celebrate the art of magic. I'm your host, Adrian Tennant, a lifetime student of magic and mentalism, occasional performer and longtime book collector. Thanks for joining me.

Welcome to the seventh episode of The Magic Book Podcast. Today my guest is Lance Rich, a magician, performer, writer and historian.

Lance developed a passion for magic, music and being the center of attention early in life, breaking into show business at the age of five in his family living room.

Since then, he's worked as a performer, creative consultant, and producer on stages across the country, including amusement parks and with major symphony orchestras. Lance is well known for co-hosting the Magic Collector's Corner, an online show and Facebook community dedicated to magic history and collecting.

For this work, Lance and his partner, David Sandy, have been honoured with the Allan Slaight Sharing Secrets Award, the Milbourne Christopher Ambassador of Magic Award, and a special fellowship from the Academy of Magical Arts at the Magic Castle. As a writer, Lance's articles and essays have been published in Magicol, M-U-M, The Linking Ring, and Vanish Magazine.

Lance, welcome to the Magic Book Podcast.

Oh, thank you so much, Adrian. I'm really excited to be here.

Well, let's start at the beginning. Can you tell us a bit about your first exposure to magic?

Yes, the first time I saw a magician live, you know, I'd seen it on TV. I'm sure by that point seen the Copperfield specials. I'm like right in that era and when they were a super big deal, right?

The first magician I saw live was during my after school program. So I was about five years old. And he was a local performer, kind of a local legend called Broadway the Clown. He studied at Ringling Circus School.

His father was a famous magician in town, like in the era, you know, kind of before me.

So he came into this after school program and I remember just being infatuated and so that really kicked off a passion and it's kind of cool because years later we became friendly. I did some work for him as like a costumed mascot character, you know, when I had no other booking.

And so Broadway The Clown - Nick Wilkins - that was my first magician I saw live. And, and that kind of started something.

Well, you started performing at a very young age. Can you share some memories of those earliest performances?

Sure. The earliest show - and I kind of joke about it in the bio that I use, but it was in my living room and it was after checking out a couple of books at the library and a book slash kit kind of thing that I got at the Scholastic Book Fair. I loved those every, every year.

So it was put together, this show with myself and my nephew, and I was the star, you know, of course, and he did whatever, whatever I told him to do, but that was the beginning. And so then my mom told my Boy Scout den leader that I had done a magic show for the family.

And so my first public show, I guess was in a basement across the neighborhood really. And that was my Boy Scout troupe. You know, I had a couple of effects. I called my nephew that had assisted me before. He had already gone back to St.Louis

where he lived. And so now I was on my own there. And I remember my big finale was an escape. And this is something that wasn't from a book.

This was just like I figured out. I mean, I just escaped, basically. I mean, there's no trick, there's no.

It could have gone terribly wrong, but it's like telling a bunch of five, seven year olds, you know, tie me up and I'm going to get out of it. So that's what I did.

You've alluded to a couple of magic books. Can you remember what they were?

Well, I do remember what they were, and that's actually kind of a great story. And in my elementary school, I used to check

out these books all the time. And I mean all, all the time.

When you look at the books and you look at the pictures of me at the time and it teaches you what to wear in the books, and that's what I'm wearing. When you look at the pictures of me from that era, it teaches you the tricks to do.

And I can see those are some of the tricks that I'm doing from these books. Fast forward many years. And I got a Facebook message from my elementary school librarian. And this was at her retirement.

And she said, "What is your address?" And I gave her my address. I was living in Missouri by then.

And a couple of weeks later they showed up and my doorstep, she had pulled them out of circulation. And they actually have these withdrawn stickers on them, but they are

"Abracadabra: Creating your own magic show from beginning to end," and "Give a Magic Show." Both very, very basic entry level types of books for children, but they really. They made an impact on me. That was a pretty cool thing.

So now these books, my very first magic books, and, you know, actually the first magic books that I had are on my bookshelf.

That's amazing. Well, as a teenager, you produced a charity magic show for the Muscular Dystrophy Association. What inspired you to take on such a big project?

I guess I didn't know that I could. So a little hubris and a little, like, you know, just lack of knowledge, really.

I mean, aren't we kind of at that age, you know, we think that we know everything? And so I was super involved in a marketing organization called DECA. Very involved with that all throughout my high school years.

And DECA's National Signature Charity was the Muscular Dystrophy Association. I had, at that time, no particular allegiance or connection to that organization.

And then I'd seen, like in "The Linking Ring," this article about a local group, a local magic club that put on a show to raise money for something, right? And so I thought, "Well, I could do that." I'm 16 or 17, I think 17, you know, it's my marketing teacher, the DECA advisor.

And I said, "Hey, can we do this?" And she said, "Sure, you run with it." And so she really gave me this carte blanche. She gave me, like, full control over this show.

So I produced a show, and at that time, I was a member of the Louisville Magic Club, which is a club with both a SAM affiliation and an IBM ring. And I invited members of that club to come do the show. And we raised about $750 or something like that that first year.

And I also emceed the show, which, thinking about it now, like, "Why did I think that I could do that?" You know, I don't know. And hopefully it was okay, but.

But I also did this big circus production number in the show as well, that I thought, "Man, this was like, just, this is this big thing. I want to do this big thing." And I guess there was a little bit of this, "Okay, I have this opportunity," because, you know, I love stage magic.

And so I created this opportunity. "We'll do it for this charity. We'll do it through the guys of this marketing club."

But at the end of the day, you know, it let me, like, kind of flex my muscles. Now I will say, like, since then, you know, the Muscular Dystrophy Association is a great organization who I became involved with. I was a counselor at camp for a number of years with MDA.

Since the Jerry Lewis telethon doesn't happen anymore, it's kind of like not as in the spotlight as it once was, but certainly a worthwhile organization still.

You continued to produce that show for 10 years.

Yeah, yeah. So I was a high school student for two of those and then going to college and all of that.

I would come back to my hometown every year and do this show and the shows got bigger. So it started off with that local talent from the Louisville Club and there was usually somebody from Kentucky that would be part of it.

But then, you know, I was pulling in people from kind of a regional talent pool and we had. Dan Sperry was there. It was after he had graduated from college, but certainly before, you know, "The Illusionists," and "America's Got Talent."

And yeah, it was, it was a, it was a great showcase there. 10 years.

How much have you raised?

I'd say that show specifically over the years is probably over like $25,000, which, you know, it sounds like a lot and it sounds like a little, I guess, depending on your perspective. But for me as a, you know, like a 20-year-old producing it, that seems pretty cool.

That's pretty decent.

Yeah. Especially in this, like, little, very small rural town in Kentucky.

In your early 20s, you worked at Beach Bend Park. What did you learn from that experience?

So this is an amusement park, a little regional amusement park in Bowling Green, Kentucky. And there's a great opportunity to do things in a repetitive way, you know, because you're doing three, four shows a day and it's just constant.

And so one, you want to look engaged and feel engaged. And so I was hired there first as a singer, dancer, and then the next season I said, you know what?

And so like I pitched this show, which they didn't take the whole show, but they took elements of it. So I got to add magic to the arsenal there.

Anyway, so that repetitive thing, that trying to feel engaged, even when you know it's 90 degrees outside and humid, because this wasn't amphitheater, 90 degrees humid, it's your last show of the day and there are, you know, three people and ...

You still want to do something that's good, you know, you don't want to just like walk through it. This was actually during my last year at Beach. It was my first year going to MAGIC Live!

And because this was like later in the season, the park shows had already gone to performing only on weekends. Right? Which allowed me to go to MAGIC Live! during the week.

And I went to a session that Joanie Spina hosted, and Joanie Spina, who, you know, your listeners know, are from David Copperfield specials, and Mark Kalin and Ginger, their collaboration with them, and so many other directors. You know, at that time, she had a column in MAGIC Magazine called "Directions."

But in her session, she said, like, she gave me this piece of advice, not me. I say she gave me - she gave everybody. But, you know, it felt like it was directed to me. And it's just about, like, connecting with the audience.

It was about looking at them, not just scanning the crowd blankly, but just looking at them for long enough that you see a smile come across their face. You engage just that much and then you can move on to the next person.

And that little bit of energy is feeding that person that you engaged with as well as the crowd that's around them. And then you move on and do that again.

And I probably had just been doing just a lot of blank, you know, looking just across the crowd and not looking at people. And so that, that's a great piece of advice.

And because I was still in the shows, I was able to go back that weekend and do the show and employ this piece of advice, like, immediately. And I could feel the difference there. So that's great.

You were very brave. You sent her a tape, I think, which was reviewed in MAGIC, and she didn't hold back with her advice.

Absolutely. And that was in that column that I was talking about, "Directions," in MAGIC Magazine. And in my case, she actually met, like, personally with me.

It was a time that I was in Las Vegas. And so we went through the video, like, in person, and, yeah. And she's like, "This is good. This is ..." you know "this - you need to engage."

And she had a way of speaking to that. It wasn't harsh, it was genteel, but it was direct.

It was on point.

It's the issue with Johnny Thompson on the front cover.

Yes, it is.

It's funny how you remember which volume things are in.

I tell you, people remember Johnny Thompson's on the cover. They don't remember that I am!

Yeah.

And of course, you've collaborated on a number of projects over the past 15 years. You've described David as a Renaissance man. Lance, how do your skills complement each other?

Yeah, I describe him like that, you know, but he really is, you know, he can engineer something and build it, but at the same time he's creative and he's a business person and he's a this and a that. You know, he's many things. And he's a good magician too. I mean, it's kind of amazing.

I think of him as a stage magician, kind of, but he grew up like, literally learning at the feet of like Dai Vernon and Ross Bertram and his mentor, Faucett Ross. I mean, and so these are like knuckle-busting, close up people. So as a magician, he has this big spectrum that he can exhibit skill in.

But as to how we complement. I'm a big idea person. I'm a good art director, I'm a good overall picture. I want to tell stories.

But he so much better at like making something happen and making something happen now, you know, I can have something in the sketch pad on the drawing board for forever. And he's like, okay, let's do it. You know, like, let's do it.

So we did sort of balance each other out in that way too, where I mean, he might like, let's do it today, and I might be like, let's do it in three years time. And so we got to meet in the middle there.

If you're enjoying this episode of The Magic Book podcast, please consider leaving a rating on Spotify or a review on Apple Podcasts. It can really help other people who share our interests discover the podcast. Thanks.

Lance, let's talk about your book, "Neon Dreams: The Story of Las Vegas Magic." Now, the book originated from a talk you gave at The Magic Collector Expo.

Can you tell us about that experience and how it evolved into a full length book?

And I'd given a talk that was sort of like a history, an overview of nightclub era magicians, you know, that very American mid century sort of thing, from maybe the mid- to late-30s to all the way to maybe the early 60s when that was especially popular. And so Bill was like, "Okay, yeah, do that for Vegas. Do that for Vegas." And so that's kind of how it started.

And as was the case with the nightclub talk, it just evolves from being just an overview into, like, these little things, these areas that I want to focus on or something that particularly becomes interesting to me. And as I'm telling people that I'm working on this talk, they say, "Now, who was the first person to play Vegas?"

"Who was the first person to work Vegas?" And first I'm like, first of all, I have an answer, because I've always heard it was this one person. And then I've also heard it was this person.

Right. I mean, I don't want to say their names, but, you know, people are, like, creating their legacy. You know, they're proud of it.

So these different examples weren't the case. They weren't. They weren't who it actually was. The more I hear this question, the more I think, well, who was the first person to play Vegas?

But because of COVID the convention and thus the talk keeps getting delayed.

I don't know that that talk would have been as well, and it was extremely well received, but I don't know that it would have happened that way had it not been for this delay, you know, and. And then, as it turns out, just to get to the book, Joshua Jay, was in the audience there.

Joshua Jay, who with Andi Gladwin, you know, own and our responsible for Vanishing, Inc. And Josh says to me very shortly after the presentation, "That's great. I think there's a book there."

"Would you be interested in adapting that into a book?" And, you know, I thought for about, like, two seconds, I was like, "Yeah!" So there we go.

And then, you know, fast forward a few more years, and "Neon Dreams" is released.

Your research process for "Neon Dreams" must have been really extensive. Can you walk us through how you approached gathering the information for the book?

Sure. Okay. Research in any sort of, like, history project, it's an important thing.

So many of the performers who I knew were in Vegas, like a Marvyn Roy, Jack Kodell, Jay Marshall, you know, there are books, autobiographies, or biographies about a lot of these folks. So, you know, I'm pouring through those. I'm diving into archives on Newspapers.com and AskAlexander.

I mean, it is amazing to think about how this process went before the Internet, before you had this access at your fingertips, which is still a lot of work. I mean, that's not to say that having it at your fingertips isn't work, because you have to be looking for something.

But before that, I mean, it's incredible to imagine something like what Sydney Clarke did or Eddie Dawes when they're, like, literally going to the libraries across the country. Across countries anyway. But back to this process. So I'm researching, I'm going down all of these trails. I did a lot of that for the talk, right?

In addition to the research, the deep dives in research, now I get to talk to all of these people who were on the Vegas stage in that era. And so it's just dozens and dozens of new interviews asking about those Las Vegas experiences. That was a lot of fun.

There are a lot of great stories that came out of that. Most of those really great stories are in the book. Some we couldn't print, but most of them are in the book anyway. So that was great.

And then I gotta say, too, I mean, the community of researchers and historians is so generous, and collectors, too, because anybody who I ask to, like, open their library to me, I mean, I give names. I don't want to leave people out.

But, like, I mean, the American Museum of Magic, David Copperfield's library, the University of Nevada, Las Vegas Special Collections, those three in particular were great. But like you asked David Charvet or Mike Caveney, "Hey, do you know this thing?"

And they're right there with some facts, with visuals, if you need those, and saying, "Yeah, you can print that. You can print this photograph." And so just really great stuff like that. And even, like, Max Maven.

Max Maven connected me to Bill Mullins, who's an amazing researcher. I mean, he finds things on the Internet. I don't know where he goes to get some, some things that he's able to access. Richard Hatch, too.

Just a tremendous community of folks who can help support you.

How did you approach the writing process? Did you create a detailed outline first and write to that, or was it more organic?

There is an outline, first of all. And it started again with the talk.

I had organized the talk in the way that Vegas reviews like Folies Bergère and Jubilee, in the way that they were organized. They would have an act, and then they'd have like little sub-acts or sub-chapters, if you will. I mean, I'm using it as a subchapter.

And so that's how I sort of started the talk. I thought, "Oh, that's a kind of a novel way to present it. I'll make it look like a show program from those shows."

But what it allowed me to do is to sort of organize these thoughts in cohesive ways because the book is not linear. It does not move in a chronological format. I mean, that was my choice.

Matt Franco, who is a Vegas headliner now, loves "The World's Greatest Magic" Specials from the '90s. So somebody my age who dreamed of it and somebody who is 60, who is 60 now, you know, they were going to those shows, I would say, and they.

They were there. You know, they saw those shows. So however you look at it on that pretty wide spectrum of ages, there.

It does move in a fairly chronological way. But again, going back to those how you outlined, like, there is an act, if you will. I mean, that's. That's how I've labeled them in the book.

There's an act that is all about the review shows. And so we go into multiple different review shows, multiple stories from different performers about review shows.

But the review shows, and by that I do mean the Folies Bergère, the Lido de Paris especially, they were super important to the town and to its evolution as an entertainment destination. And so it was really important that I really drill down on that component.

And so within that review show era, then the subchapters are sort of like in a chronological order, you know, bit of a linear order there. Outline kicks it off. I guess I have a Mission Statement that I'd reread every now and then, you know, that's written at the top of my document.

So as I'm writing, I look back up, and it says something about "to illuminate and inspire with ... " whatever.

And it's kind of cool because the book, it's not meant to be inspirational necessarily, but two different reviews have said something about being inspirational. And then I look back at that Mission Statement, and I did use the word "inspire" in the Mission Statement.

And I was like, "You know, maybe there is something to say about rereading that every couple of weeks as I'm working on it, rereading that Mission Statement." I was like, "Maybe it, you know, sunk in somewhere there with me even as I was writing it." So again, going back to the original question, have the outline, and I just am filling in gaps.

I'm a little like ADHD, where I'll like, "Oh, I want to research this thing," or "I want to write about this thing." But then, you know, in a week, I'm kind of like, onto something else, and I'll come back to that thing that I had been working on.

But at least with the outline there, I know where it's all going. You know, I know how it's going.

There is one section that contrasts stylistically with the rest of the book, titled "The Newcomer." Lance, what inspired you to adopt a narrative approach here?

So "The Newcomer," I think a term that's used is creative nonfiction, where it is a little more narrative. It's talking about a night at Gary Darwin's Magic Club.

And for your listeners who don't know, Gary Darwin's Magic Club was an event that happened every week in Las Vegas. Late night. They would rent the back room of some. I mean, it changed. It was a restaurant, it was a casino. They changed places throughout the years.

And local magicians, out of town, magicians visiting and, like, headlining magicians would all come to the same meetings.

So these people, you know, you're all just in this big room together, drinking, having some food, smoking, I'm sure, because there's smoke everywhere back then. But it's just kind of a cool thing. Well, Gary Darwin started Magic Club.

And Gary Darwin moved to town and became kind of like the godfather of Las Vegas magic.

He did perform on the stages in a couple of different venues, but behind-the-scenes, I mean, he just welcomed people into the Las Vegas magic community. So I've spent a great deal of this bigger chapter talking about Gary Darwin. I've described Gary Darwin's career, and I've described the club.

I've had quotes from people who went to the club. I wanted the reader to feel what it's like to be there. I wanted to put them in that place.

It became this sort of narrative, creative nonfiction, if you will, of actually feeling like you're there. And another thing that that allowed me to do was to use interviews that I had conducted and bits of information, bits of stories. Like Fielding West.

Fielding, in some ways, is sort of like one of the main characters in this chapter that we're talking about. He's so colorful. He's so, like, larger than life. And he's quoted so much within that. And these quotes of his really do come from Fielding.

I mean, like, if he's quoted there, it came from an interview. I'm not just putting words in his mouth. I just wanted it to feel like you were there. And it's interesting, too.

It was almost cut from the book for the reason that you said it doesn't quite match the book in some ways. You know, the storytelling choice. And so it was maybe on the chopping block because it didn't necessarily fit in.

And so then it was like, "You know, I really hate to lose it because I want to experience everything." You know, Andi, in the layout, it's in a different color background. It's in, like, a different format slightly, just so it looks a little different visually.

And of course, it doesn't really have photographs during that chapter either, because it should exist in your mind. But at the end of the day, it's one thing that people keep talking about that chapter. So I'm kind of proud of that.

Everybody who is mentioned, say, in "The Newcomer" chapter, is a character, if you will, a person who you've already been introduced to throughout the book in some way or another. So it's like you sort of have an idea who this person is already. And that continues through the rest of the book.

So they're not all these digestible, bite-sized Things, there is some flow as you make your way through the book.

"Neon Dreams" also reveals two firsts in Las Vegas magic history. In your research, you uncovered the story of Gloria Dea, the first magician to perform on the Las Vegas Strip.

How did you first come across her story?

That came again through this research.

David Goodsell had an article that he wrote in the program of a convention guide when the SAM Convention was in Las Vegas, because he sort of queries, too, about who was the first magician to play Las Vegas. I asked if he'd come across any new information since he published that article, which is probably 10, 15 years ago, and he hadn't.

And I contacted Max Maven asked Max a couple of questions, and he said, you know, this is a good question for Bill Mullins. So Max introduced me to Bill Mullins, and Bill Mullins compiled a list of all of these performers whose names he could find.

I compiled a similar list of various performers. I'm looking for casino, hotel casino.

And so you take away, like, the Eagles Lodge, you take away this political rally, you take away, you know, these things that happen which could happen, you know, in any town, USA, Right? I want something that's a hotel casino, because that's what makes Vegas Vegas, you know, that's the credit you're looking for when you play Vegas.

And when you start taking all of those names away, you're left with one name, the earliest name, I should say, and that was Gloria. I mean, I had never heard of Gloria Dea, and most people hadn't, I would say.

And then I sent an email to Michael Claxton, who is a great source, again, for those photographs. And Michael Claxton, in particular, has a great knowledge about women in magic.

And Michael sends me a photo of Gloria, this, like, kind of composite image. It's great. It's so of that era, that composite image that she used for promotion. And then he says, "You know, it looks like as a ..."

Whatever year, it was like "she might be living in Las Vegas."

So a lot can change in 10 years, especially when you're talking about somebody of that age. So I reached out to her cousin Kenneth, and he said, "Yeah, Gloria is alive. She's 98 years old." At. She was at that time. She was about to turn 99.

And so he put me in touch with her. And then there's this whole other serendipitous journey from a magician named Anna Rose Einarsen.

And that story is all in the book, but it's really the way that everything fell into place in really just a couple of weeks time. And Anna Rose and I both ended up on the same journey to the same woman through she found. Well, I'll let you read the book. But it's just.

It's just like, I don't know if I believe in serendipity, but it makes me believe in serendipity because it's just the amazing way that this story fell into place. And the things that happened after it fell into place are pretty incredible.

All of that wouldn't have happened without this research and these incredible people who have helped me.

As a direct result, Gloria got to enjoy a very special 100th birthday party. What was it like seeing Gloria that day?

Oh, it was really amazing. So this is a woman who, I will say, you know, she was a magician. She was a child magician. She became a dancer.

She danced with the Earl Carol Vanities, and she danced with Billy Rose's Aquacade. I mean, some really crazy, crazy things that these big names from entertainment history, not magic history. And then again, she was an actor, actress.

She was in some parts in movies, including "Plan 9 from Outer Space," by Ed Wood, which is, you know, largely considered to be the worst movie of all time. So she's this, like, kind of interesting, you know, touching show business with greatness without ever being a star, without ever being recognized.

Probably the age of 40, maybe a little past that, she kind of walks away from show business in general. She walks away from magic. She goes on to other careers.

Now, when she performed in Las Vegas at the age of 18, she was not living in Las Vegas, she lived in LA. But eventually, like in the late 70s, she does move to Las Vegas. And so she's lived in Las Vegas for, you know, now 40 years.

More than 40 years, really. So seeing her now at the end of her life, 100 years old, get this recognition of being a show business trailblazer, a magic trailblazer.

The Clark County Commissioner was there that day. He presented her the key to the Strip. And he says when he gives it to her, he says, "Because you helped create it."

And it's true, because when she performed on the Las Vegas Strip, the review she was in ran for about two weeks at the El Rancho Hotel. El Rancho was the first hotel casino on the Strip. I'm pretty sure this is the first person to play a hotel casino.

Anyway, so now she's kind of basking in this glory, this recognition that she had never had before. I mean, she said one time, she said, I was never a star, but this has made me a star kind of cool. And she really is. I mean, she is now.

You know, she is now in the history book. People know her name. We're talking about her on this. On the Magic Book podcast!

One of the magicians who features prominently in the history of Las Vegas is, of course, Lance Burton. Now, in addition to sharing a first name, you're both originally from Kentucky.

Towards the end of "Neon Dreams," you write, "Las Vegas is the magician's dream. It's a place where German boys and Kentucky bumpkins can become stars." How does Lance feel about the reference to "Kentucky bumpkins"?

Well, I think he would be okay with it. He hasn't said anything to me about it. And I'm also speaking there about Matt King, too, another fellow Kentucky bumpkin.

Lance calls himself "Hillbilly," which is, historically speaking, kind of a more disparaging term.

But the point that I'm making there, too, is that, like, these people from these diverse backgrounds, the wartorn German boys, you know, Siegfried and Roy, of course, too, you know, somebody who grew up in a field in Kentucky have that opportunity to become stars in Las Vegas. So I'm sure Lance enjoys it.

Excellent.

You can be notified when new episodes of this podcast are published, either by signing up on the website at TheMagicBookPodcast.com or by following the Facebook page. Thanks.

As I mentioned in the intro, your work on the Magic Collector's Corner with David has been honored with the Allan Slaight Sharing Secrets Award, the Melbourne Christopher Ambassador of Magic Award, and a special fellowship from the Academy of Magical Arts. Lance, how has producing the show and maintaining the Facebook community around it influenced your perspective on magic history and collecting?

Magic Collector's Corner started as kind of something for us to do during COVID and I think it was surprising for us how much people latched onto it almost immediately. I mean, like within the first couple of weeks, we were filling up our ZOOM room and we were streaming it on Facebook as well.

And then that Facebook community where you are showing your antique and historic props or you're asking questions about history, you know, that has just grown and grown. I think it's like 6,500 ish people now, which is amazing. Accessibility has been like a major thing.

I know so many people who say, "Well, I'm not a collector, but, you know, I have 500 decks of cards. I mean, and they're all different, you know, like not just 500 bricks, but I've got, like, I've got this." Well, that's kind of a collector.

You're kind of a collector! You know, you might specialize in one collection, but you're kind of a collector.

And it's like, "Well, I'm not a historian, but could ..." you know, and, you know, tell some fact. And I'm like, "That is where it's at."

So I think sometimes we can do a disservice to history or collecting community when we label it like the Magic Collector's Corner as we did, or the Magic Collector Expo or Magic Collector association, because it seems like there must be a barrier for entry and there's not.

And if you love your 100 decks of cards or if you love your, you know, the three Square Circles that you have, you had one when you were a kid, you bought one in your 20s and you have one now and, you know, you're 65. But when each one is maybe a little more expensive or a little different, but you got your three square circles.

I mean, by whatever standards, rules, I think three is a collection, right? Two is two and three is a collection. So I guess it's just like being that Facebook community, being able to post and ask questions.

It's that accessibility. You know, my own interest in history came from. And this goes to the name of the podcast, you know, we talked about my first magic books.

My interest in history starts also in the '90s because of books. And they were mass market books.

It was "Conjuring," by James Randi, which told great stories that were kind of bite-sized stories, but about magicians throughout the years. And "The Encyclopedia of Magic," by Eddie Dawes and Arthur Setterington. I never owned that book.

Actually, I do now, but I didn't own that book because that was a public library book. I checked it out all the time and I tried to buy it many times. Pages are torn, things are drawn in it and they're like, "No, we don't want to sell it."

I mean, it could have just gone missing off of their shelf. But I never did that. You know, I never just took it, but I did check it out all the time.

And what's great about that book to me too, is that it was contemporary because, you know, I think it was published in '85, '86 somewhere in there. So it had contemporary performers. Siegfried and Roy, Copperfield were in it. It taught some tricks so you can learn a little bit of magic.

But then it also had great history as well.

And so both of those books, "Conjuring," and "The Encyclopedia of Magic," mass market books accessible to me. "Conjuring," I think I bought at Barnes and Noble. And likewise, "Architectural Digest" with David Copperfield on the cover - that was sort of my introduction to "people collect and like, you know, make it in this beautiful display." Now, I think I'm just guessing here, I don't think another magic collection has made it to "Architectural Digest other than his."

But still, like, that was like an. That's. That sounds pretty cool. That's pretty cool. I mean, I bought that at Walden Books, you know, that issue of that magazine.

So going back to the Collectors Corner, if you are 40 year old, 17 year old, whatever, you stumble on this thing. You don't think of yourself as a collector, a historian, whatever, but you think like, "Oh, I've got a question about this problem."

And so it's just that entry point. And now, you know, we have, I don't know, almost 40-ish episodes of the Collector's Corner.

And they're long and people tell me people watch them, like rewatch them, which is amazing. I mean, there's a lot, there is a lot of amazing information in them.

Somebody like said to me one time they were doing a rewatch and I was like, "It's not 'The Sopranos', right?" It's not like. But so the idea of like going back and rewatching these three hour long episodes, it's pretty extraordinary.

But I am proud of what we've created and hopefully it has been an entry point to some people.

And I think it has, because when we have seen people at like Collector Expo, collector conventions and non-collector conventions alike, MAGIC Live! it's like, you know, "I found you during the pandemic and I really enjoyed this." And you know, they tell me a story and that makes a lot of difference. It's pretty incredible.

Well, this is The Magic Book podcast. So today, Lance, what is your most cherished magic book and why?

That's a hard question to answer. I'm not always good with favorites and that sort of thing.

I would say those two books that I got from the librarian, you know, because of my connection to those, my personal connection to those, those might be it. And I have my own copy of "Neon Dreams," as well, that I have had people sign, the people who I've interviewed, people who are featured in it.

That's kind of becoming kind of special to me as well. So I don't have nearly enough signatures in it yet.

I still have to make the rounds at some conventions and that sort of thing to get everybody's signature. But I have enjoyed collecting the signatures from these people for this book that is for me, my first book. That's kind of cool.

That's very special. Lance, are there any upcoming projects or books you're working on that you can tell us about?

I just want something that I connect with. As far as that goes. I will say, and this has nothing to do with a history project, but there's a novel, you know, I've begun.

It's Vegas magic-inspired. We'll see if it goes anywhere. It may just be for my own entertainment, but it's like a couple of stories.

They're kind of being rewritten and re envisioned so as not to be the direct story. But yeah, so we'll see if that novel becomes something.

But it's directly inspired by a couple of different stories that are kind of all rolled into one.

That sounds interesting. At the end of "Neon Dreams," you write, "This book is not a history of Las Vegas magicians. Rather it's a love letter to them."

What advice would you give to aspiring magic historians or writers who want to contribute to preserving and sharing magic's rich history?

I would say be passionate about, you know, find something that you want to write about.

I mean, this is my first book, you know, that's a great question to ask somebody like a Mike Caveney or a David Charvet or Jim Steinmeyer, somebody who has like a lot under their belt. For me, it is passion. It's not a short process. Right. It's a lengthy process. "Do I want to spend months or years with this particular subject?"

I also think, going back to that accessibility thing, I think that there's something about something that is engaging and accessible. Who is a fan of reading textbooks? My aim with this book, certainly I wanted to write a book that my mother could enjoy.

My mother, who doesn't care about magic, doesn't care about Vegas, but something that she would enjoy just from a storytelling point of view, and I don't want it to be super academic. You know, I want something that's accessible. So I think that accessibility is important, too.

Don't assume that your reader is at the same level of knowledge as you are about any of the subjects you write. With this book, I wanted to take whatever subject it was that I wanted to talk about. Let's say, Lance Burton's sword fight.

One of the things I enjoy about one of his chapters is that it kind of takes you on the evolution of the sword fight. And he makes a reference to Blackstone's Man in the Whiskers illusion. Well, okay, that's great if you know what that is, but if you don't.

So I felt the need to explain to the reader what the Man in the Whiskers illusion was, just so that, you know, we're all on the same page. Literally. Literally. I guess we're all on the same page anyway, so accessibility and passion. I think those are. Those are two things. Entertainment.

And by accessibility, I mean entertainment.

Harrison Greenbaum was recently a guest on The Magic Book podcast, and when I asked him what his most cherished magic books are, he included "Neon Dreams." The reason he gave was ...

Because he had always hoped that if he went to Las Vegas to do magic, which of course he did with "Mad Apple," he would at least be a passing reference in the book about Las Vegas magic. So, Lance, if someone were to include you in a magic book, what would you most want it to reflect about your work to date?

First of all, that's very, like. I'm shocked there. That's very flattering. I appreciate that. I was included in a Harrison Greenbaum joke.

So when he did a, like, a State of the Magic Union at Magifest, he made a joke about me. So I feel like that's the magic equivalent to being portrayed on "SNL," right? You made it. Now I feel like I've made it.

So that he says that that's kind of flattering. What would I be? I think I would want to be included probably in some project. I would say the reference is Gloria Dea.

So, you know, there are quite a few projects about women in magic right now, and the importance of recognizing not women coming up even, but women who have come in the past. So that is something that I feel like I have been a part of. Giving to the magic community is her story.

And I think I would like to be written about in a way that may again go into this entertainment. Made something that was an entertaining read.

You created a music playlist to listen to while writing "Neon Dreams." Now, is this something you always do when writing or preparing a lecture?

Yeah, actually, it kind of is. It's a great way to procrastinate. When I should be writing, I'm like, "Oh, what music inspires this? What music inspires this?"

And one of my favorite, like kind of little side projects or promotion, I guess it was a promotional project.

I created this playlist for myself and it's probably like a three-hour playlist or something, but I condensed it down to an hour long and I wrote little blurbs about them and that was put out as a, like a blog on the Vanishing, Inc. website as a promotional tool, you know, when the book came out. But I loved that.

I loved creating that and sharing with the reader why that song was chosen for that. But if I'm listening to this music and feeling whatever emotions come out of it, maybe that's going to translate to the page.

You can go to that blog and get that playlist. It's on Spotify or Apple Music, and listen to it yourself as you begin to sit down to read the book.

Well, if listeners who don't yet own a copy and would like to dive deeper into the history of Las Vegas magic, where can they find "Neon Dreams"?

You can find it at Vanishing, Inc's website.

I've given a shorter version of the talk that I've gone to some conventions and have done, and I usually have a couple of copies with me as well there. So if you want a signed copy, you know, that's a good place to do that. Or I have some copies here. You can email me again if you want a signed copy.

But you know, Vanishing, Inc. Has free shipping. That's a great, great place to get it from.

Lance, thank you so much for being my guest on The Magic Book Podcast.

Well, thank you, Adrian. It's been a lot of fun talking about the book and the writing process.

I am really excited that you enjoyed it and that readers have really seemed to connect with it.

You've been listening to The Magic Book Podcast. In this episode, we learned about Lance Rich's journey from a young magic enthusiast to a respected author and historian in the magic community.

We explored the creation of his book, "Neon Dreams: The Story of Las Vegas Magic," and gained insights into his research and writing processes.

Lance also shared his perspectives on the importance of preserving magic history and offered valuable advice for aspiring magic writers and historians. I hope you enjoyed this deep dive into the glittering world of Las Vegas magic and Lance's contributions to documenting its history.

You'll find the transcript accompanying this episode on the website at TheMagicBookPodcast.com plus a blog post with a summary, timestamps, and links to resources we mentioned.

If you have a question or would like to suggest a topic for a future episode, Please contact me: adrian@TheMagicBookPodcast.com. Thanks for listening to The Magic Book Podcast. I've been your host, Adrian Tennant. Until next time, goodbye.