Join host Diane Schroeder and guest Vanessa Broers in an eye-opening episode of The Fire Inside Her podcast. Explore the profound impact of shame, vulnerability, and the interconnectedness of personal and professional growth. Vanessa, a shaman in training and leader in personal and professional development, delves into reparenting the inner child, embracing vulnerability, and the role shame and perfectionism play in our lives. As they draw parallels between personal wounding and leadership dynamics, the conversation offers a fresh perspective on nurturing the inner child for emotional well-being. Gain valuable insights into healing and self-awareness as they navigate the depths of the human psyche and its influence on leadership. If you're seeking inspiration to bring your authentic self to all aspects of life, this episode is a must-listen.

Vanessa's journey is a testament to her incredible capabilities. Beginning in the upper echelons of a major corporation, she excelled in process improvement, but her calling led her towards profound healing and coaching, even venturing onto the shamanic path. Over a span of more than ten years, she became a guiding force for top-tier entrepreneurs and leaders, aiding them in dismantling long-standing internal barriers to achieve peak performance. Her transformative methods not only eradicated stress and overwhelm but also revolutionized their leadership approaches, fostering remarkable outcomes in their teams and enterprises. Vanessa's unique approach as a Culture Shaman emphasizes the centrality of the human experience, as evidenced by her collaborations with esteemed institutions such as Reddit, LinkedIn, and various universities, crafting thriving cultures that magnify both human well-being and organizational achievement.

Do you have a question about the journey to authenticity? Are you curious about something you heard from a guest on the show in past episodes? Send them my way, and your question could be read on a solo episode. Head over to thefireinsideher.com/questions and fill out the form.

How to connect with Vanessa

AMPLIFYOU Landing Page: www.amplifyou.com/guest-vanessabroers

thepowergift.com

Instagram

@thehighperformancehealer

LinkedIn

www.linkedin.com/in/vanessabroerscoaching/

Facebook

www.facebook.com/vanessa.alberts.9/

How to connect with Diane:

www.thefireinsideher.com 

Diane@Thefireinsideher.com 

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@TheRealFireInHer 

LinkedIn

www.linkedin.com/in/dianeschroeder5/

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Welcome to The Fire Inside Her, the podcast where we explore the incredible stories of individuals who have discovered their inner fire on their journey to authenticity. I'm your host, Diane Schroeder, and I am so grateful that you are here.

This is a really powerful episode about the importance of relationships with our inner child. Vanessa Broers is a shaman in training and a recognized leader in personal and professional growth shares her powerful insights on reparenting the inner child, embracing vulnerability and leadership, and the importance of self-love and self-care. Together, we dive into the interconnectedness between personal and professional growth, the impact of shame and perfectionism, and the concept of nurturing the inner child for emotional well-being. Vanessa believes in the importance of the nonphysical world and has a deep relationship with God's spirit and nature. Vanessa spends most of her life force energy hollowing herself out, delving into the deepest, darkest, wounded parts of her psyche. My favorite part of this episode is how Vanessa addresses her connection with her inner child.

And one more thing before we jump into this conversation, do you have a question about the journey to authenticity? Are you curious about something you heard from a guest on the show in past episodes? Send them my way, and your question could be read on a solo episode. Just head over to thefireinsider.com/questions and fill out the form. Now on to the show.

I am really looking forward to today's conversation with Vanessa Broers. Vanessa, welcome to the show.

Thank you. I'm happy to be here.

Yes. And I'm just going to jump right in with my icebreaker question. What is your favorite type of candy?

Oh my god. This is my favorite question. I love this question so much. So, I love all gummy candy, but I like it really stale. I like when it's been left in a cupboard for way too long and it's really hard, or, like, you find 1 in the car and you're like, yeah.

It's fine.

Everybody does it. And years ago, I met a guy who ages gummy candy, like, people age wine. Because I never met anybody who thought about gummy candy like this. And he was like, he brought out 1 bag. Like, this was aged 2 years, and it's one of the best experiences of my life. So, that's my answer.

Oh my gosh. Like, is it, like, gummy bears, Sour Patch Kids, or you just universally any gummy candy.

Anything gummy. Swedish Fish, Sour, Straws. I mean, you name it. Airheads. I love it.

I love it. That is definitely leaning towards the top of my favorite. I love the Haribo gummy bears, without a doubt. I'd take gummy candy over chocolate any day.

Same. If you ever have nothing else to do and want to laugh so hard you pee your pants, go on Amazon and read the reviews for Haribo Sugar Free Gummy Bears, and I'm not going to tell you anything else.

Okay.

It was one of the hardest I've ever laughed in my life. Somebody else told me, and it's worth the rabbit hole.

Okay. Alright. I'm going to Google that as well and look at it because, you know, who doesn't need time to laugh? I have an 11-year-old who's pushing every button I have right now, so I need to find moments to laugh. Fantastic. Well, I'm just going to jump right in and ask the question, and then we'll backtrack from there to kick this conversation off. I am really curious to hear more about what is a culture shaman and how can you add spirituality to mainstream work? And knowing that spirituality and religion are different, how does all that work?

So, shaman work with energy. That's at the foundational level what they do. They work with the physical and the nonphysical. And to the shaman, the nonphysical world is as real, as influential, as important as the physical world. So, I'd like to just describe it that way. It's deeply spiritual. They have a very, very, very, very deep relationship with god's, spirit, nature, all of the above. And shamans spend the bulk of their life force energy hollowing themselves out. And what that means is, like, I spend more time than anyone else I know, other than my teachers, in, like, the deepest, darkest, wounded parts of my psyche where nobody else wants to be. And every time you do that, you hollow yourself out. You make yourself more available to just channeling life force energy. So, that's a shaman. I'm on that path. I'm, like, you know, on the shamanic path to my own training, and I've always done work like this.

And as I work with individuals, that's how I work. I work with someone. If there's something going on in their business that they don't like, you know, I'm looking at the energetics of it, like, what little words they say don't make sense. It's hard to explain because it's like a 6th sense kind of thing. And I did that for so long, and I really supported people with their own healing and shifting their businesses to create different outcomes. And then had my own business, and I was working as a leader. And I was like, oh my god. All the same shit is happening at the organizational level. The thing that makes leadership so damn hard is all of the human dysfunction that comes into every role, into the relationships, the interpersonal relationships, and then therefore show up at the organizational cultural level. And so, when I work as a culture shaman, I'm looking at the energetics of all of those different levels, the organization, the outcomes, the roles, the people, the wounding in the people, the relationships between the people. And I can usually spot, you know, just for example, I was working with a team the other day, and I was only on the call for about 5 minutes. And I was like, woah. What is going on between these 2 people? And it was one of the leaders of the organization and one of their main, like, second in command. And when ended, I spoke to the leader, and I said, just curious. What's going on there? Like, what did you even see? To them, there was no visible, like, dynamic that would let you know. And I was just based on that 5-minute interaction, I was able to completely, like, guess what the dynamic was between them, and it was all just because of these micro reactions that happen in people that point to much bigger dynamics at play. So, I help them spot the dynamics and then correct them.

I love that so much. Before I retired when I was a leader in the fire service, you've given me so many words and language. So, what I did as a leader, like, not knowing it, like, just being able to take that energetic read of the room and or feel it and not know what was really going on for most of my life, like walking into a meeting or where it just felt tense and awkward, and, like, I got a pit in my stomach, and the energy was off. So, thank you so much for explaining that.

How come organizations tend to get down that energetic mismatch. Like, what happens? Because I don't believe that most leaders are like, I want to have a very awkward, uncomfortable workplace. I want to have poor performance. I don't think that's the intent. And yet over time, it's what happens in organizations that don't have healthy cultures. So, what causes that for leaders to kind of disconnect from the culture and really kind of put blinders on, for lack of better term, of, you know, what's really going on, like, the human piece of it, and really start focusing on, I like to call them technical problems because it's so much easier to be like, alright. Here's an adaptive challenge. I'm going to ignore it. It's going to be a technical problem, and I'm going to try to fix everything with by checking a box. Why does that happen, and why do leaders forget the human centered piece of it?

The primary reason is that I see in the way that I work. So, the other thing that a shaman does is helps a person see where the material world, like the external world, is triggering deep wounds of your internal world. So, to the shaman, there is no separation between the material and the internal. You can live in a way where you don't connect them, but to me, that's much harder. And so, I share that because, A, most of the time, almost all of the time, whenever there's some sort of breakdown in a team dynamic or in the culture and the leader is ignoring it, it's because it's triggering something in their psyche, in their wounding that they can't see, aren't ready to face, don't want to face, or that they do see the dynamic that's at play inside of the organization but their wounding is making it so the stakes of taking action feel higher than they are in reality. So, for example, if there's a leader who has wounding around approval and validation or inadequacy or not trusting themselves, and they need to fire a crucial part of their team. But it feels like if they do that, everyone will hate them or be mad at them or the backlash will be too big. That wounding in them will prevent them from taking action, and it is triggering to be a leader.

Your stuff is activated all the time. So, if you don't have somebody helping you point to, hey. Did you know that that dynamic is connected to this thing in you. And then when you work on that thing in you, you're much better able to handle the dynamic. I think maybe 2% of leaders on the planet are doing that kind of work.

Thank you for your explanation, and I couldn't agree more. And, yes, I say this I feel like I say this every episode I record. When you decide to become a leader, you choose it's a choice. It's a choice to be a leader. It's a choice to be a good leader, or it's a choice to make maybe not the best decisions. And I think you just, you can't outrun the work. You can't outrun your inner stuff regardless of how hard it is, how scary it is, how messy it is. And, yes, it is hard. It's very triggering. It reminds me so I just got back from my honeymoon, and, unfortunately, we were in Maine during the Maine mass shooting, and we were about 20 miles away from it. And it triggered me instantly because of my experience in the fire service and, you know, being involved in other mass shootings, and it just automatically shut down. And then I got locked in on my phone, and I was zombie scrolling. And I was like, wait a minute. I'm not working. I'm not even in the fire service anymore. And it was so primal. I didn't even realize it until my husband was like, I'd really like for you to check back in. It would be really great. It never goes away. So, how can leaders acknowledge that? And what are some of the first steps they can take to even realize that we all have deep wounds, we all have to go to those dark places, and it's not about fixing ourselves. It's about acknowledging that shadow, those wounds, and learning to work with them.

Honestly, if we look at culturally, the first step is just what you said. It's acknowledging. When you sign on for leadership, you don't just sign on to learn to be a better leader. You have to become “better human”. And it's not about being a better human. It's about being a more whole human, a self-aware human, emotionally intelligent human, self-loving human, and you got to do the work. You need to start healing. So, if you aren't doing that work, sign on to do that work. And increasingly over the years, I've gotten less and less apologetic about saying with someone else. By definition, your shadow is not visible to you. The shadow is like the shadow of your awareness. It's your consciousness. It's designed for you to not be able to see it because it's meant to be protecting the parts of you that feel scared and unsafe and unloved and unwelcome. So, I mean, unapologetically do the work with someone else, a coach, a therapist, a shaman, a psychedelic, or, like, whatever your way is, just do the fucking work with somebody else. Yes. I mean, that's it.

Yes. You're absolutely right. Like, if my people listening, one thing is start doing the work. You can avoid it for a while. You can sidestep it. You can't outrun it forever if you really want to live a fulfilling life, and that's professionally and personally. I just think it's okay to and I couldn't agree more, you have to do it with someone else. There's only so much you can glean from self-help books. They're very important to kind of kick start. But it's that, you know, the guide to be like, I see this. You may not see it because you can't, like you said, and you've got to do it. And it seems scary, but I always say, We Can Do Hard Things, to quote Glennon and Abby and sister. But it's also, you've survived 100% of your bad days, even the really tough times, if you're willing to get that help.

So, what is like, a baby step. Like, someone's like, nope. I'm good. I don't need this work. I'm crushing it. My organization is happy, healthy, and whole, which I don't think is probably entirely true if you're not willing to look at your shadow side and do the work. What's a baby step someone could take just like a quick, like, okay. Maybe I should talk to someone.

There's also the reality that sometimes you don't. Like, if you're good and everything is great and things are flowing, it may not be unnecessary. You don't have to be always in the work all the time. So, to the person who things are thriving, great. Let them thrive. If you're not thriving and your things are growing at your detriment or your expense or you're trying to thrive, but things around you aren't going the way they want, then it's time to consider taking a step. You know, baby steps, I think you said something really great, which is self-help books can only take you so far, and I really do think that that's true. You know, they are wonderful tools to creating a growing level of awareness, but when it's time to really create the change, you know, that's where it's helpful to have someone see what you can't see.

So, some baby steps that I took over the years are, one, if you're reading the self-help books but not doing the exercises, that's a baby step. We've all been there. I'll go back and read it again and do it. No, you won't. Nobody does. Let yourself take 3 weeks to read the book and do the exercises even if you just do one of them. A second would be, you know, I often recommend, there’s really, really good professionals who will have some high value conversations with you.

So, I think part of the fear that people have in stepping into working with someone is there's this kind of weird codependent loyalty thing that happens where if you have 1 conversation with that person you need to hire them, no, you don't. So, like, give yourself permission to have multiple conversations with different practitioners and be straight up. I'm not ready to hire. I just need to get a vibe. And if that person is unwilling to talk to you, it's probably a good sign that there's somebody else better. And so, I think, you know, it's a little like dating in the sense that you have to have the right chemistry, the right self-trust. And so, I think give yourself permission to have a few conversations and see what it feels like, and then let yourself say no to everyone and not continue.

Yeah. It's your free will. Right? So, how does it work, or what would you say to my listeners who are not in leadership roles and are really struggling with a leader or a boss that refuses to do the work, that refuses to acknowledge, you know, everything, and it's just a not very healthy culture, and they feel stuck or trapped or don't know what to do. What would you say to them?

That is a really good question, and there's a few, okay. The first thing is that sometimes the best thing is to leave. And I say that because I don't know who's listening, and I don't know what they're experiencing. Because the next thing I could say could end up in sort of gaslighting on accident. And so, I just want to really honor. There are workplaces that are just toxic, not healthy to be in no matter the amount of boundaries that you set, matter the amount of self-awareness that you have and sometimes the most healing, transformative, self honoring biggest step for your profession can be to walk away and quit. It's often the case that the same way that it's true for a leader, that if you have a person on your team or a dynamic at work that's really feeling awful, it’s usually pointing to something in yourself that needs healed. That doesn't mean you're the cause of it or you're responsible for it, but it's whatever that wounding is in you is clouding the way that you're able to see your judgment and what action to take.

The same is true when you're the person being led. So, I will often find that my clients, like, they're not always the top leader that are in leadership dynamic, end up with a leader who triggers the same wounding that their mother did or their father did or a sibling or a previous boss. Right? So, quite often in these situations, there's something in your own wounding that's being triggered that's a little different than when you're the leader. So, when you're the person being led, the wounding is usually around things like, why you can't hold boundaries, why you don't feel comfortable speaking your truth, why you don't feel comfortable speaking up when someone is disrespecting, dishonoring, or violating you, when it's like it tends to be wounding around approval seeking, safety. And so, it’s valuable and worthwhile looking at, where has this shown up before in my life? Where else is this currently showing up in my life? Does this dynamic remind me of any of my childhood dynamics? Is this issue I'm dealing with, maybe it's a specific issue around not being heard or recognized, something I've struggled with. And if the answer to those questions is all yes, then there's a very good indication that it's something within your psyche that is also being asked to be tended to. That doesn't mean you should stay, but if you leave, you're likely to encounter that again.

Thank you for that answer. And as you're saying that, I'm reminded of, you know, it's what you can control. And you can't always control what your leader or your boss or, you know, decision makers in your organization are. You can control your response. And if that's an invitation to dig deeper into yourself, it's a win-win to some extent because now you're in a better space. You've recognized and done some work, and it will also help you if you choose to become a leader down the road or, you know, leave and stop that.

How does the personal and professional bleed over. Like, we would always say, I leave my home life at home, then I come to work. And I realized after a really rough patch in my life that they were very well connected. And I couldn't just say, nope. That's at home. I'm going to not pretend that's going on because we're human. So, how have you seen that in your practice?

I mean, it's such an important question, and it's also a question that cracks me up. Because, I mean, I have found myself asking that question. I find myself being asked that question. I find myself talking about that question. But when I'm a person, I'm a person everywhere, and I happen to be the same person. I'm Vanessa at work. I'm Vanessa at home, I'm Vanessa in my coaching business. I'm Vanessa in my parenting. So, there's this way in which we talk about this work self and this home self as if you sort of, like, fractal off yourself or something.

Right. Right. No. I agree.

You're the common denominator. And last time I checked, I couldn't leave me anywhere without, I tried, man. I backpacked in my 20s. I tried to leave myself behind. Damn. Every time I ended up in another country, there I was. Honestly, the idea that we can leave parts of ourselves anywhere in and of itself is a lie. You can compartmentalize. That doesn't mean you show up and you sit on your boss's desk and bawl your eyes out because you're in a breakup. There's a level of appropriate expression, but I believe that with the level of appropriate expression is actually weigh more, not weigh less, that you should bring way more of you to all these places, not weigh less. And so, that's sort of the first part. And then the second thing that I have found is that it takes a ton, way more than we think, a ton of life force energy to try to keep all these things separate. And when you do that, you diminish your own personal power, your creativity, your cognitive abilities, like, your problem solving, your creativity, your thinking, your magic, your essence, your power. And so, when you try to do that, you're actually less effective at both.

That is a mic drop moment for sure. Again, seeing that, I think the next question I would ask then, how important is it? And vulnerability has really picked up. I, you know, over the last several years, you know, it's more of a buzz that leaders need to be more vulnerable. And how does that impact an organization when leaders and or followers open up and are vulnerable, and bring themselves to add value instead of trying to fit in to an organization? So, I think a lot of times, you know, and I've heard it over and over, well, they're just not a good fit. They don't fit in the culture. They don't fit in the organization. And my question to that is, well, why do you want them to fit in? Don't you want them to add value? And I think it's a small distinction, but the beauty for me of diversity and belonging. It's what value do you add? And if everyone's the same, and even if you're not the same, but you force yourself to be, you know, “to fit in”, you're not being your authentic vulnerable self. You're just showing up and phoning it in. And I think that it probably leads to a bigger conversation about culture and belonging, but how does vulnerability impact that and why do people need to see leaders being vulnerable and genuine?

To me, it comes back to, honestly, shame and perfectionism. Most of the people that I have worked with, and I think culturally, we have an epidemic of shame. Perfectionism is how we try to avoid feeling shame. And if you are perfectionist, your performance is automatically going to be reduced. And why I say that is because in order to be perfect, you need to be controlled. And in order for your life to be controlled, you can't take any risks, and in order to not take any risks, the work has to be work. You know you can succeed in, and therefore, you can't really grow. You can pretend you're growing. You can take on what that looks like a stretch, but really doesn't actually risk failure.

And so, if you are an organization that wants to grow, which most do, and you're a leader who isn't vulnerable, the difference that I teach leaders is are you aspirational or inspirational? Because if you're aspirational, what you're doing is showing up and being, like, maybe someday you can be successful and strong like me, even if they don't mean to. I've never met a leader who wants to be aspirational. They think they're being inspirational, but inspiration requires vulnerability. Nobody's inspired by the person who completely looks the part, but shows no flaws. And so, if you want your culture and your people to actually push the required edges for growth, then you have to make it safe for them to not be perfect. And the easiest way to do that is to show them that you're not either.

Wow. I have goosebumps. That's a beautiful answer. And I think to tag on to that, it's also beyond vulnerability. It's creating that fail forward environment that failure's okay, that it's okay to screw up because for everything that you just said, you're pushing the edges if you fail. And that is so much about perfectionism. And I'm curious to hear more about your thoughts on shame and why shame is such a powerful motivator and not probably the most effective way in organizations. Why is that the default?

From the earliest days in our childhood, well, first of all, we live in a very shaming culture. We like to talk a big talk and talk a big game about being this entrepreneurial, pull yourself up by your bootstraps culture, and we are. You know, I love America, but at the same time, shame is what drives us. You're not enough. You're not good enough. You're not as good as that person. You could be better. I mean, all the way through school were shamed for getting it wrong and, yeah, it's just criticized, and that's if you grow up with loving parents. It's like then you add in being criticized. And so, anyway, shame to me from a shamanic psychospiritual lens, shame is actually psychologically how children protect themselves. Let's say you grow up with a highly critical mother, and she's shaming you all the time. Then there's only 3 possibilities. One is that my mom is kind of a monster. And that's actually psychologically and physiologically almost unsurvivable. Like, for a child to hold that the person who's in charge of their safety and well-being is not okay. A child can't handle that. Then the 2nd option is then the world is monstrous. That's equally psychologically annihilating because then I'm not okay and mom's not okay, and then we're really screwed. So, the only survivable third option psychologically is I'm not okay. It must be me, and that's the voice of shame. So, actually, as a child, when we don't know how to hold the complex emotional experiences like being criticized, like being made wrong, like experiencing grief, like experiencing fear, even if you have very loving parents are part of the experience of being human, shame is where the child goes to be like, this must be happening because of me. That's the only survivable option. Until we outgrow that, that's our default.

That's why every single person on the planet struggles with inadequacy, not feeling like enough. Because as we work in that dynamic, if you think about that same relationship between child and critical mother, if you're constantly being criticized because your mom has her own wounding and she hasn't handled it, then what you get to do is how can I be better? How can I shift this? How can I get a more loving response? And it's essentially a psychologically immature way that 99% of humans take into the workplace because there is nothing more motivating from a negative perspective than shame because it's so terrible that you'll do anything to get out of it. Is just that we then project that shame onto money, career, success, promotions, clients, entrepreneurial ventures that those things basically become the new mom.

Wow. That's a lot to chew on. And thank you for that because I see that. You know? Now I'm like, oh, man. I feel like I've just taken the red pill again instead of the blue pill from the main lyrics. I'm like, you can't unsee it now. And so, how do you take care of yourself? What does your self-care look like as you hold space for so many people and be the spiritual, you know, guide and shaman, how does that impact you in continuing to nurture your soul while helping others? How do you take care of yourself?

Thank you. It's a very good question, and it's a question that's constantly in evolution. The first is, you know, in very shamanic terms, I've really, I have a really well-developed relationship to my inner child. When she feels shame, instead of being like, yeah. What we do wrong? I'm like, woah. Woah. Woah. Hold up a second. Who the fuck shamed you? 1st of all, let me add them. Let me add, you know what I'm saying? I have this very protective and increasingly so relationship with my inner child. So, if she's shaming herself too much, I will be like, knock it off. It's time to stop now. If she's too scared, it's like, we're doing this. Hold my hand. We're going. You know? And so, I think that's the first, and I've been able to develop that because of, I have very, very nurturing support. I have other people holding me. I've done a lot of the work that allows the sort of energetic bullets that come my way to not penetrate like they used to. But even right now, I'm in a period where, you know, like, just to kind of like, that shield has a lot of cracks in it right now, and, actually, the work that I'm doing right now feels heavy, like, too much because I've kind of reached another place where my inner boundaries aren't strong enough. I'm taking on responsibility for other people. I'm in patterns of dysfunctional relating in several different places in my life, and it's deeply uncomfortable. And it feels really horrible, and I'm in conversation with my teachers to be like, help me heal this so that I can move through it. So, I think that's the most fundamental layer of self-love for me.

And then just really in the last couple years, I eat really well from a place of nourishment. I've started to take supplements because I need that physical fortification. I own a gym, so I make time to work out. I turn off. I go in nature. I have my own spiritual practices. I'm learning how more and more to say no and set boundaries and honor myself and let other people be upset with me, and they're all so hard.

Yes. All of that is so hard is the inner child, thank you for sharing that with me because that's definitely been the biggest part of my journey this year is really connecting with the younger versions of myself for the same reasons, for, you know, protection and love and kind of reparenting that her, you know, in a way that feels good now and call it my security detail that hops in and is like, wait a minute. You know? What are you doing? You know, the alerts, the alerts. And I was like, alright. I see you are there. I know why you're there. I got this. And thank you for being in the back seat now, but I'm going to run this, you know. And I've got the pictures of myself as a child growing up, and really just that freedom of connection with her has just changed my life in a lot of ways. So, I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels that care, and my husband has done a lot as well. So, it's kind of funny. Every morning, we meditate together, and we never know what the meditation's going to be. It's just as random. And it felt like for, like, a month, it was all about inner child stuff. And I'm like, clearly, the universe is telling us that we better address this.

Yep. So cliche. Even when I started to work with my teacher. She was I was like, oh, the fucking inner child shit again. Come on. You know? It's like, but what I will say is and I feel like this is important for anybody who's listening to this, who's rolling their eyes, or is like, I've done that work and I would know not this again or, like, is that even real? Those are all things. Is that for the people who have already, “done the work” on the inner child, there was a really important distinction that I learned, which was I was working on my inner child to get rid of her. I was like, how can I heal her, get her out of my way, and make her go away? And then I have it. I have a 4-year-old, and I'm like, I would never relate to her, like, how do I make her okay so she goes away? Like, that's not even, so I started it's like, no, you're developing a lifelong relationship with this part of you, not so they go away so your relationship is better, and that was a huge breakthrough for me.

That is a really good shift. And, you know, I find myself and maybe parenting is part of it too, that, you know, when my son is going through something, I'm like, man, when I was that age, what would I have loved to hear? What did I need that I didn't get? And not, you know, for any other reason than, you know, my parents did the best they could with the tools they have. I don't blame them. And what could I improve upon so he doesn't have to carry that along in his journey. And so, I do. I love that that relationship with your inner child, not to get rid of them, but to make space. Hold space for all the different versions. You know? Like, even, like, I think I focus so much on the younger, childlike versions. I kind of ignored the 20s and 30s Diane, and those were pretty bumpy times that I've really needed to look at and be like, sis, you did the best you could because I didn't do the inner child work. Like so it's really all the old versions of you get you to where you are today, and I think maybe a different shift is celebrating that. Like, you've made it. You've gotten here. So, now you have the choice to learn more and heal more, which is a great opportunity that is not afforded to all. So, tell me, Vanessa, how can my people find you a little bit more about the work you do individually. And I know you've written a book, and we didn't get to chat about that so, I apologize. But where can you be found?

Probably the easiest place to find me is the powergift.com, and it will take you to, you know, my page, but there's also one of my favorite trainings I've ever done less than an hour, and it takes you through the acronym POWER. And it’s sort of the way that, if I were to do a leadership training, it would be based on these 5 elements. And that will put you on my email list, and I write to my email list every day, and they are awesome. It's all, like, stories of my life and things that I don't share on social media, but the teachings that come with it. So, that's my, I would say the number one place. And then the work I do, I do work with coaches and entrepreneurs to teach sales, but through the same lens. So, using sales as a place to reclaim wholeness, but then also get masterful at sales. And then if you want to come to Denver, I do something called Sacred Rage Alchemy in my gym, and I guide people into the reclamation of rage to let themselves have it, feel it, experience it, and it is amazing. I do it once a month. It's only $100. I mean, you have to get yourself here and stay. People leave that session, and they tell me that their critical voice in their head never came back. I mean, it's powerful. It's really cool. If you want to hire me as a culture shaman in your organization, then you can just reach out directly, and we'll have some conversations.

Awesome. Well, I will make sure I put all that in our show notes as well. Thank you so much. I want to end this amazing conversation with a question about since we're talking about inner child, what do you tell your inner child now when she needs a little extra TLC? How do you connect with her in a way that you didn't do before you started doing all the work?

The first is that I actually will create the space. You know, sometimes I'll put my hands on my heart or I'll just sit there, and I will literally talk to her like she's a child. The child outside of me, and I would talk to her like a child. It seems like you're feeling really upset right now. Like, I try to use language that a child that I would if I talked to a child. It seems like you're really upset. Do you feel sad? Do you feel scared? Do you feel hurt? Do you feel mad? The 3 most healing words to my inner child are, that makes sense. I get it. That makes sense. And this is what I say to my daughter. Let's say I'm in, like, a fierce moment with somebody or I'm in a tense situation, then I learned this from a dear friend of mine who does hypnosis and it's I'm safe, I am calm. I choose to be here. If my inner child really scared, then it's you are safe. You are calm. I'm here with you. And so, it's teaching her that, like, I'm pretty badass. I can throw down, and I got your back.

That is perfect. Vanessa, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and your stories and your vulnerability. I look forward to connecting offline as well and coming to the Sacred Rage Alchemy.

Another great conversation. Thank you for giving the valuable gift of your time and listening to The Fire Inside Her podcast. Speaking of value, one of the most common potholes we fall into on the journey to authenticity is not recognizing our value. So, I created a workbook. It's all about value. Head on over to thefireinsideher.com/value to get your free workbook that will help you remember your value. Until next time, my friend.