From beat cop to FBI leadership - Louis Quijas made history as the first police officer to become FBI Assistant Director without coming up through federal ranks. This unprecedented 36-year law enforcement career spanning Kansas City Police Department, High Point Police Chief, and FBI leadership reveals how one officer changed federal law enforcement forever.

After 9/11, FBI Director Mueller personally selected Quijas to revolutionize FBI-local police relations. Working four doors down from the Director, he transformed the Bureau from a reactive agency to a prevention-focused force, building partnerships with 800,000 local officers nationwide. His innovative approaches, including the nationally-adopted "High Point Initiative," proved that community-driven policing works better than federal mandates.

Hey, a warm Heroes Behind the Badge welcome to Louis Quijas.

He is a member of the Citizens Behind the Badge Law Enforcement Advisory Council.

Louis, welcome to our podcast.

Good to have you as a guest.

thank you for having me.

I'm looking forward to it.

You are a frequent op-ed contributor, to Citizens Behind the

Badge, and I know you've had some very good, opinions expressed, and I know

my colleagues, Craig Floyd and Billy Erfurth wanna talk to you about that.

So why don't we get right into it?

Let Craig, I know you know Louis A long time and, why don't you start us off?

I just think everybody needs to know that, our guest, Louis Quijas, is,

quite, the law enforcement professional 36 years, having served in law enforcement

at the state, local, and federal level.

there aren't too many law enforcement leaders in this country that can say that.

and he, brings, quite a, interesting and a very important perspective,

to what's going on in the world today in law enforcement.

But Louis, I wanna start with.

last, I guess it was right before the election, maybe in October of last

year, you wrote an op-ed on our behalf for Citizens Behind the Badge, and

you basically said that the number one issue facing the American electorate

in November was public safety.

That was the issue that really you felt was the most important.

And I'm just interested, having now here we are, what, eight months out from that

election, do you still feel that way?

And, have we progressed in, a positive direction as a result of that election?

No, I still believe that with all my heart.

I still think though, the public safety piece of it is

probably the most important.

And even the, the general election for the president and now these midterms

that are coming up even at the local level, we've seen now how important

these local elections are when you, there are, elected local das and the local

sheriffs and the appointment of chiefs.

So I think it's more important than, ever.

And what I hope we, and I know what we're trying to do for citizen behind the badge

is educate people how important it's for them to get involved and be educated on,

what is going on in their communities as it relates to public safety.

no, I still believe wholeheartedly, I don't see any lead up, if you will,

in, in that priority where that, I think public safety should always

be a front, burner issue, for us.

Louis.

Yeah, go ahead, Bill.

So Louis, let's just jump right into this, this op-ed,

and it's a very interesting thing, and it was interesting for me because

I had never heard of this before.

N never heard anybody talk about how this went on, within law

enforcement or in police work.

But, so you were involved in this, you talked about this in your op-ed.

the St. Louis, Kansas City, Missouri, and how those police agencies are regulated by

the state rather than on the local level.

Never heard of that before.

Very pretty, interesting.

And I'm, I would imagine a lot of people haven't heard about

it, so let us know about that.

in Kansas City's case was nine around 1930 because of the

corruption and everything that was going on in the, in Kansas City.

They removed, basically fired almost everybody.

And, put the police department under state control.

The governor, whoever the governor is, appoints four people from the community.

most of the time.

One's north of the city, south, east and west.

So you have a diverse group.

And the mayor only plays an EXOFFICIO member is only an

Exofficio member of the board.

Got one vote.

So the mayor, like in most cities, can get rid of the fire or the police chief.

I, that's not the case in Kansas City, nor was it in St. Louis.

St. Louis was pulled out and they wanted to go on their own,

go back under city control.

And as you can see how that's turned out over the few, over the

last, I guess about 10 years or so.

They just recently, I believe in March, came back under state control

because it's so bad in St. Louis.

But, one of the things I tell people nine times outta 10, I couldn't

even tell you who the city manager was in Kansas City because we never

felt that pressure from City Hall.

We knew we had a board of police commissioners, very diverse.

all of them brought d different agendas, sometimes competing

agendas, which made it interesting.

Board meetings pretty interesting.

But at the end of the day, just because a group of people would come down to

police headquarters, demand that the chief be fired, which they did in, right

after the George Floyd incident and the.

Excuse me.

The rioting and the protesting, the chief at that time in Kansas City,

they wanted to get rid of him and it didn't happen because of the structure.

And what around the country today was such poor political

leadership, Chicago, Seattle, New York, la you could go on and on.

and a lot of those chiefs and Craig and I, and many of some of these,

they're very good chiefs and some of the stuff I see 'em doing, you think

they normally would not do that.

That's not them.

And it's because they come under that city control.

But I think if they were under state control, it might be, would be different.

So the goal of that ultimately is to take the,

local politics out and have a more neutral state oversight over

the police department itself.

Now was it just the police department or was it the fire

department or just, police only?

Just police.

Just law enforcement.

And, what it does, it gives you some consistency and policy and focus and

priorities rather than every four years, and at when I was there, we didn't have

unions, so we didn't get into all of that.

Our focus was on public safety.

Because,

We, that was so good.

We, we, see this time after time where police chiefs are fired,

left, and sideways because they're not, they're not listening to the city manager

or the mayor or the council or whatever, or they're not of the same political

persuasion of the, as the new person that just locally got elected there.

Yep.

And in contrary to the sheriffs, where if you're an elected sheriff, you're the man,

you make the choices, you can't be fired.

You might not be reelected.

But, way different situation.

Yeah, In, the sheriffs, they clear they, they carry a

lot of political power locally.

they're out there, they're, they're still a contact sport.

you go out, you're shaking hands, you're kissing babies, you're doing, and

nobody does it better than the sheriffs.

A good sheriff's always, out there.

And, I tell you what, after I started interacting more with them, through my

work with the FBI, let me tell you what I newfound respect for that group of people.

And now there's a big push to bring those sheriffs under local control.

I don't know if you've seen that, like up in Washington state, and I think

it's King County actually up in, in, right outside of Seattle there, part

of Seattle, they're trying to bring that sheriff's office under city

control because they do have power.

And they can say, Hey, this isn't right.

This doesn't make con, this doesn't make sense.

we are gonna cooperate with ice.

We are going to help enforce immigration laws and that's the been the rub.

Do you see this as a partisan issue at all?

in Missouri you have a Republican governor and, I think there was probably charges

of, partisanship that was, responsible for the state wanting to take over St.

Louis, even though I think that the facts tell you that a St. Louis wasn't

doing a very good job of running, their city and preventing crime.

one of the things you made a, great point in your op-ed I thought

was that, businesses and citizens were leaving St. Louis in droves.

Because of the public safety issue.

They just didn't feel safe there.

Yeah.

And as a result, they left the city.

And the Republican governor, looks at that and he says, and the legislature,

of course, they had to approve this.

they said, wait a minute, we can do a better job if the state, controls

the St. Louis Police Department.

And, obviously you made the point, Kansas City has been under state control for

so long, but, I'm interested in why maybe other departments within Missouri

haven't been under state control.

And do you view this as a Republican versus Democrat, issue?

I do now more than ever.

fact, when I was a cop, again, we couldn't be involved in political activities.

You couldn't write a check.

we had guys that would get terminated if they got caught, Donating

to some politician's campaign.

So we were very, distant from, the political, any kind of political movement.

So yeah, I, but I see it now that way.

Look at St I go back to St. Louis.

They've got rid of the DA state, came in and got rid of her.

They're trying to get rid of the sheriff now.

St. Louis County Sheriff.

Yeah, because of all the, just the crime.

They're like, what I, believe right now they're number one or number two,

most violent cities in the country.

And, they're so disorganized.

There's a lot of chaos.

And not that Kansas City, by any chance is a shining star.

They've got their issues, but we've never had the issues that St. Louis had with

after they went back under, city control.

And, I ran internal affairs for Kansas City for a number of years.

we had our sheriffs up, but we had no.

Better anywhere, stretch of corruption and some of the things that you see

some of these major cities have.

and I think a lot of it was due because we were under state control.

we weren't under that city.

the mayor didn't call over, the city manager, didn't call over, never

worried about those kind of issues.

So yeah, I think, I believe that, there is that piece now where

that's a Democrat and Republican and you've got a very progressive

mayor in Kansas City right now who's.

Public safety is not a priority for him.

That's, good.

Good.

A good policy, isn't it?

Yes.

I'm interested in your amazing career.

You started in Kansas City right?

In Kansas City PD.

Actually 50, 53 years.

53 years in, 10 days ago.

I showed up at the police Academy 53 years and 10 days ago.

To the day.

To the day, yeah.

I, would, I probably on my lunch break right about now, wondering what

in the hell am I done with myself?

But yeah, I was, we just had an anniversary 53 years and, 10 days ago.

And you, were promoted as high as major, I believe, in Kansas City.

You left as a major and you, then you became a police chief, right?

yep.

In High Point, North Carolina.

That was, had to be a little cultural shift from Kansas City over to High Point.

I'd say it was the best move I ever made.

It really was great town.

But the point, the, there's one move that you made after High

Point where you became the first.

assistant director of the FBI who had not come up through the system, obviously you

had come up through local law enforcement.

Tell us about, your promo, your, promotion to that position, how it

happened and most important what you did, because I think it's very critical.

It's very similar to what you were just talking about, relationships with

some of the local and state people.

Yep.

I mean it was really very simple.

We went to ca, I went from Kansas City to St. Louis and we had

already been, we had been one of the first agencies that got into the

community policing piece years ago.

When I first came on, they were already talking about 53 years ago

and 10 days, 10 days, they were talking about community policing.

'cause I remember having it in the academy.

So when we went there, high Point was having some of the same issues

that, the big cities were having, but obviously on a smaller scale.

And we just started implementing, the High Point initiative and

which is still there today.

After all these years after I, I've been gone and, and was, picked up by a number

of police departments around the country.

We had more police departments visiting High Point, because

Jan Reno took an interest in it.

She had heard about us.

Yes.

I wasn't getting any, and I always joke with people, I said,

I never took any federal money.

It wasn't because I didn't want it, but I wasn't smart enough to handle it.

So I thought, I'm not gonna get myself in trouble and get

a million dollar grant to do.

'cause we, they, were offering us money and, I'm trying to

think of the lady's name.

I'll think of her, Lori Robinson, remember Lori Robinson?

Sure.

Yeah.

And she was with DOJ at the time and she took a interest in what we were doing.

So to make a long story short, I got invited myself and the US attorney

got invited out to Arizona to share with the other US attorneys there, how

we were working together to address violent crime, bringing all these

federal resources in, developing these partnerships, but also having the,

initiative driven by our local citizens.

And then that crowd happened to be a guy named Bob Moeller, who was

a US attorney in San Francisco.

So now you go up and speed it up a little bit.

He's seven days into his job as the new FBI director.

And nine 11 happens.

And, director Muller being the smart guy, he is realized that at that time there was

about 13,000 gun toting agents scattered over 700 locations around the world.

He knew they weren't going to be able.

To be the prevention piece of that strategy to keep our country safe.

It's gonna be those 800,000 cops out there, 24 7 in the back alleys out on

the street, having the contact that was gonna prevent the next terrorist attack.

And he realized that there wasn't that positive connection between the

FBI and state local law enforcement.

It worked at the local level.

A lot of great sacs out there that were, making good contact, had great

relationships, but they rotated out and then it would all start over again and.

Louis, that was your first, you were the first guy doing

that, and, now you're with the FBI.

So tell us, what was your greatest achievement, you think, when you were

there, and how did you liaise on that?

it was fairly.

I wanna say easy because I had great partners like Floyd Craig.

we had people that knew what was going on, knew that there was a

need for it, gave me an opportunity.

I can't tell you how many times Craig had me up talking to the

groups that he had coming, invited me to many of the functions.

People didn't even know there was an office of law enforcement coordination.

what we did is I just, my hardest challenge at the beginning, to

be honest with you, bill, was to convince the SACI was not there to get

between them and the relationships.

I was there to get there, to enhance the relationships.

I could go right to the director.

I was on the seventh floor, about four offices down from the director.

He passed my office every morning.

I traveled around the world with him and he always ask, how's it going, Louie?

That was his favorite line.

How's it going?

And I would tell him, Hey, I'm hearing this.

Or we'd go to ICP or we'd go up to do Craig's function every year.

And I'd tell, Hey, you're gonna to hear this.

So the issue was, to convince those sacs, I am here.

To help you in the relationships.

I don't wanna get between the relationships and because I had

been a police chief, I had been a member of all these associations.

I was pretty well known in the law enforcement community.

But, I never got in front of those relationships.

And I think that was what the, Me part of our success for the office, and

they knew I had access to the director.

They always saw me with the director in his favorite line.

A lot of times if somebody would mention something at a

conference, he'd say, talk to Louis.

He's my guy.

So they knew I was the guy that was gonna make it happen.

And for those who might not, be familiar, with

the term SAC, that's critical to understand what that means.

So why don't you explain what an SAC is?

This, SAC is a special agent in charge.

They run like the Dallas office, the Richmond office,

the Washington Field Office.

So those are the guys, that's their, they're like the director of that.

Particular area.

New York has an assistant director over that office, so I

actually have to deal with them.

Boy, if you come in there, you do something without their approval,

they get a little riff, so things

will roll.

Yeah.

I needed those relationships.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You were, the perfect guy for the job because of your background.

you grew up, 20 some years in Kansas City, A local department,

rose to the rank of major.

Then you moved to High Point where you become a police chief,

and then you go to the FBI.

Now, I have to ask you this question because.

you've alluded to it, the FBI has had a reputation probably forever

that they don't, play well with state and local law enforcement.

One of the, I think the myths, at least, and you can correct me if

it's wrong, is that the FBI tends to come into a big crime and take over

and get all the glory and all the credit because that's the way j Edgar

Hoover liked to do it in the old days.

And yeah, to some extent that narrative has remained true.

when you got there, how did you feel about it?

Did you feel that the FBI really was negligent in working well with

state and local law enforcement, or was that a more of a myth?

I grew up with that.

I grew up with that mindset.

When I was in Kansas City, I was never really involved with the FBI that much.

I was more of a field operational kind of guy.

Wasn't on many of the big task forces.

So that wasn't my thing.

But when I became police chief and we started, introducing the High

Point initiative, Chris Wecker, who was my SAC out of Charlotte and

I became very close as matter of fact, he was very instrumental in

me end up getting the job with the bureau because of our relationship.

But yeah, I mean it was after I got into the FBI, I realized, there's

always two sides of that story.

And, but I think the, what helped me Craig, more than anything is that the

director had been a local prosecutor in d in DC and he had worked homicide

cases with local detectives and obviously, the DC area better than

probably anybody on this broadcast.

that US attorney, the, so there was a lot of context.

So he knew.

There was a lot of guys saying, oh director, you don't need to

bring a guy in from the outside.

We have these great relationships.

But he had sat down with the local cops out in San Francisco.

He had done it in DC so he knew they weren't perfect.

I don't think there were as bad as people were making him out to be.

A lot of it was just redefining those lanes and emphasizing the importance

that state and local was gonna play in the, future of the FB i's success of

preventing another terrorist attack.

And if you remember when a director Moler come out with his 10 priorities,

when he became the director, I believe number eight, and they

weren't any particular number.

Rate was contact with state and local commu, develop that

communication information sharing with state and local law enforcement.

'cause in reality it was state and locals who had all the

information, they had all the intel.

They had all the resources or, the assets, if you will.

So it was just educating our, the bureau should say now took a turn from being more

reactive agency to a prevention focus.

'cause you gotta prevent the next terrorist attack.

Yeah.

what they were used to was showing up to the bank after the robbery or to the

community after the kid was kidnapped.

Now you got planes flying into buildings that you gotta prevent.

And that, and it was hard for them to change that mindset where state and

locals, that's what they focus on.

They focus on preventing bank robberies and kid being kidnapped

and all those kind of crazy things.

And I think you have to, realize that, if that was

their goal right after nine 11 to prevent future terrorist attacks.

I think they've done a pretty good job of, accomplishing that goal.

Yeah.

obviously we've changed a lot in this country in terms of security

measures and law enforcement, et cetera, and it seems to have worked.

I'm interested though, you've been removed from the FBI for quite a while

now, but the FBI lately, the last year or two has been under a lot of criticism.

and in some cases they've been, charges have been made by Trump and others that,

they were partisan, in the way they were practicing and, perhaps even weaponizing

the FBI, to be involved in some sort of political witch hunts and such.

what's your view from, you're, an outsider now, but you were there.

do you feel the FBI's ever been political?

how are they doing their job today in your, estimation?

Yeah, we, my, I can only speak to the time that I was

there and what I saw when I was with Director Moeller, who, we

would stay at a local field office.

If we were at like the National Sheriff's Association and there was a,

senator that was speaking on stage, we would stay at the local field office.

Until that senator did his thing or she did her, and then when

they left, then we would show up.

That's how, conscious the director was about even, being on the

stage with political people.

interesting.

and then on your thing, I remember a great story.

Here's a great story for you, clay.

I've never shared this with you.

You got invited us to come to the, candlelight vigil and, there's

obviously a lot of politicians on there.

And we were driving, in town and Dr. And the director called me and actually said,

Louis, should I really go to this thing?

And I said, director, you gotta go to it.

you've got the Ashcroft is gonna be there.

You had the DEA, he was that conscious about being on the stage with people.

And I said, that's not, it's not gonna be any of that.

It's gonna be, a very, very good thing for you.

And he ended up showing up and he came down.

I think everyone that, while I was with him while I was there, we showed up.

yeah, I, I never seen that part of it.

I really am.

I never was ever in a meeting or anything to where I thought.

this is a Republican Democrat thing.

I never saw any of that.

Now I think what you have, you had a lot of young people that got promoted

before they should get promoted.

You saw 'em on tv.

you saw 'em in the Senate hearing committees or, hearings.

without pointing out any of those people probably should have never

had the positions that they had.

And, I'll leave it at that.

Yeah.

I just, I just think back to the Obama administration and I think

that's where a lot of things started happening, where, the FBI was utilized

as a political tool and they started spying on the Trump, campaign and tapping

their phones and all that kind of stuff.

I think that became the beginning of a lot of that politicalization.

And it goes back into this whole thing that we were talking about

in Kansas City, St. Louis and Missouri is, you're trying to get.

That politics out of law enforcement.

And it's difficult because the FBI is federal, right?

So they're working under the DOJ and the FBI director and the director

of the DDOJ are appointed by the president of the United States.

And oftentimes those people are pol political pawn sometimes, or certainly

whatever the political affiliation is of the president oftentimes becomes

the political affiliation of the director of that, of his cabinet.

So it, seems like we're gonna bring it back into, St. Louis and Kansas

City again, because I, find it interesting that this is only going

on in one state in this country.

And why do you think that?

That hasn't become more popular or spread across the country.

I almost think everybody wants to have their own kingdom or their

own fiefdom where they can control local government and local police.

And in Missouri's case, that's very different.

Now.

and I don't think it's a, it's solution or it's, an option for everybody.

I don't think it's something that everybody should embrace.

I, I, you've got, like I said, you got big cities like Kansas City and St. Louis,

but you, look at Baltimore, you look at, Cleveland, you look at Seattle and you

get those major cities, and if the, focus isn't on public safety, keeping those

communities safe, Philadelphia, Chicago.

Let me, don't get me started on Chicago.

I sit here back.

I think what what's happened in Chicago over the last 20 years has

been probably the biggest civil rights violation in our history.

Where every weekend, virtually every day, but every weekend, let's say,

where people are gonna get shot, you know what they're gonna get shot with.

It's in a, three mile area and we're not doing a thing about it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's crazy.

And I sit in back and say, this is just crazy.

And you talk about intelligence driven policing, if I can tell

you between these hours on this state, it's gonna be a handgun.

I can tell you the victim, the race of the victim.

I can almost tell you the, race of the, sus of the suspect.

Yep.

And you're saying you can't do anything about it.

4th of July weekend, four, almost 50 shootings.

nine, nine deaths, I believe.

Something of just crazy.

the July 2nd.

I understand they killed four other people, and you're

saying that can't be prevented.

That should be the easiest crime to, solve in, in, in Chicago, but it's not.

Chicago has turned into a complete and total shit show.

and the, last two mayors that they've had have been absolute buffoons and they

definitely do not support their police.

And they've brought in police, superintendents there in Chicago that,

align with the mayor's politics and they're Yes sir, men, they go along with

that, and that's become a real problem.

And, I think that's what's, again, I want to go back to the Missouri thing.

I think that's why it's so much more interesting because, your cops aren't

gonna go out there and put their ass on the line and be proactive and get,

get down and dirty in those areas and take care of crime if they don't feel

like they've got, the administration's got their back and they're supported.

And when you've got these liberal politicians that are

bringing in these police chiefs that can be fired at on a whim.

if you're not going along with what they feel, if the police chief, if the police

superintendent in Chicago put together a task force and sent them down to

the southwest side of Chicago and just started taking care of business, the chief

would probably be, the superintendent.

He'd probably be fired by the mayor, right?

Yeah.

So it, it's crazy.

And that's why, I had asked again about how come that just hasn't

taken off around the country.

It's about power.

It's about power, it's about leverage.

It's, that's what it's really all about.

When you have the power to look what's going on in la Now, we, probably all know

Jimmy McDonald, great guy, I think solid the earth guy, and I felt bad for him when

I saw him standing on TV because let me tell you, Jimmy McDonald knows what to do.

Of course, he's a great, they know what to do.

He knows exactly what to do.

They just can't do it.

They just can't do it, right?

'Cause you've got Karen Bass, who's got one day of law

enforcement experience ever, and all of a sudden she's the expert on what

needs to be done to keep the city safe.

Now, I can guarantee you she's not dictating the same way to Jimmy or

to the guy who runs the electrical department saying, I don't want

you to do, whatever the lingo is.

No, she doesn't do that.

But for some reason, these people get in office and they think all of a

sudden they're experts in public safety.

When in fact you got a chief that's been there for 25 years, got 30 years of

experience or whatever it is, and they, no, you don't really know what you're.

They're just political pawns then, they're, turned into Yes sir.

Men, because they're more concerned about keeping their job than, doing the

right thing or supporting their, cops.

And that's very disheartening and frustrating.

And that's why you have the morale problems because they, the cops just

know they're not getting the backing.

And, we were at a cigar bar one time and Craig said to me, I don't understand

why you never became a police chief.

And I said, are you kidding me?

I said, can you see me listening to some mayor or city council

telling me how to do police work?

Just like what you just said, Louis, like Karen Bash, she's done five minutes

of, law enforcement in her life and she's basically dumber than a doorknob.

Anyway.

Yeah.

And then you gotta answer to that woman after you've done

a career in law enforcement.

And I used the analogy with Craig and I said, Craig, it's

like you getting on an airplane.

You've never flown an airplane in your life.

You don't know anything about airplanes, and you stick your head

in the cockpit and you want to tell the pilot how to fly the plane, and

you've got these mayors and council people and whatnot that want to tell.

Career law enforcement people, how to do the job.

and it's, crazy to me.

Yeah.

And, if you look at law enforcement, it's probably one of the most regulated, watch,

there's more federal, state, local rules about law enforcement, public safety.

I don't know, a profession that probably, maybe medical profession, maybe a doctor.

But you think about it, you're pretty much, you watch pretty

close every day in what you do.

And so this thing, you go out there, you, it's just crazy.

and I think, but I'm optimistic.

I really am.

I think I do see some light at the end of the tunnel.

I hear good police work going on.

I talk to cops all the time.

but I wanna go back to something you said, and, I don't think you know it

until you are a police chief, because I know personally for me, and when I talk

to, to, to cops or, and former chiefs, you get in there and the city manager.

rubs you the wrong way, or you think, Hey, this isn't gonna work.

I can just leave.

But you've developed relationships with your people, you feel responsible for

them yet, if I walk out the door, it's good for me, but I leave them behind.

And now they've gotta deal with, 'cause city manager's gonna

put some knucklehead in there.

and, a lot of times you hang around, not because you're a political pawn, but

because you care, about the citizens.

That's when you got into the business.

You care about these troops.

Now that you've come and you're their leader, and no matter how

long you've been there, you think, I just can't jump ship on them.

It'd be easy to do.

'cause most of these guys have already got jobs someplace else.

If they're halfway smart, they realize, Hey, I've started looking

for a job after my first year there.

So I, so when I hear people say, they, should, I sit back and say,

Hey, until you're in that seat and you think, boy, I can't leave these guys.

I don't wanna just leave 'em out there.

I don't live by themselves.

I'll stick it out.

Maybe this will change and it never does.

Yeah,

that's a, it's a wonderful trait to, you have the, concern for your

people and isn't that what a leader is?

Yeah.

That's it.

So what, yeah.

Other than elections, I guess what, I hear you saying, Louis, is you better

be careful who you elect because that person at the local level who you

elect, is gonna have a huge impact on how your community is policed.

Yes.

Is, that accurate?

Oh yeah.

I think you should.

I was telling, talking to a golf buddy of mine yesterday, I was,

and they were talking about the district attorney's election.

I says, somebody better ask, Hey, what's your, bail bond?

what are you gonna, what are your top priorities for prosecuting cases?

There's only so many resources.

Do you, you see what's going up in New York and LA and,

Chicago with Fox, out there.

and the lady that was in Gardner, I think her name was in St. Louis.

they weren't prosecuting anybody, right?

So I says, you need to know that.

Just like you should know who's on your school board.

Board.

Yes.

So who would've ever thought that you show up for a school board meeting?

Now you go there to make sure that hey, they're not

teaching your kids crazy stuff.

yeah.

Yeah.

we get very exercised about our national politics, obviously.

And we should.

It's all local.

You know what, there's, somebody said this, somebody way smarter than me.

All politics is local.

Yeah.

Somebody.

Not Neil.

Yeah.

But isn't that the truth?

What you're just saying here about the politicization of

policing is all about elections.

Yeah.

It's about elections and Yeah.

Very much Very careful who you choose to run your city, because they're

gonna choose the city manager or who runs your city council or whatever.

And sometimes we don't pay much attention to those elections.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Or you get a case like you see up in New York where they wanna get rid

of the police department completely.

Louie, we keep saying.

The, pendulum may be swinging in, a more positive direction when it comes

to policing and criminal justice today than say, two or three years ago, in the

heat of the defund, the police movement.

But,

our only one election away, to Dennis's point from returning,

back to the days of Defund, defame, the police go easy on criminals.

And I, think, here at Citizens Behind the Badge and you're a part of the team, as

a member of our Law Enforcement Advisory Council, I think we have to continue

to beat that drum because complacency, can be a very dangerous thing that

when you think things are fine and, you don't need to worry about it anymore.

All of a sudden some evil head, sticks up and all of a sudden you're

going backwards, not forwards.

how do you feel about today?

do you, think we're in a better place than we were during the

heat of the defund movement?

Are we moving in the right direction?

and are you concerned that we, still have big problems, to deal with?

Yeah, I, think we're as much at risk now as we were

during the George Floyd thing.

I think it's been, went underground.

I believe it's more organized.

I believe they're more educated.

I think we, we've never, I don't think we'll ever.

Stop hearing about defund the police anytime you have an incident.

I think we were talking before we went on about, the protests you see now and

the violence against, ice officers and mixed in with those ICE officers are

local cops, the sheriff's deputies.

and you get somebody that's gonna get shot and that'll eventually happen.

there's only, they just keep escalating the violence.

we were talking about, I believe it was the marijuana farm where,

they now actually have guys shooting at the ICE officers.

so the officers are gonna end up, having to defend themselves.

So when that happens, you'll have this whole defund the police piece again.

But you said something a second ago, Craig, that I, that concerns me just

as much as all this other stuff.

You talk about the pendulum, and I've been in this business long enough.

What ends up happening is that we let stuff get so far out of hand that

you'll have citizens come in and say.

Do whatever you have to do to make us safe.

And that pendulum doesn't go halfway.

You'll have agencies that'll do that and you'll have people

that will abuse their authority.

You'll have officers that will go out and do crazy stuff.

And then what we do is then we'll find ourselves all the way

back over here because you will have, officers will do anything

because the citizens just give up.

And that's where I think you gotta have that pendulum right in here.

So there's always that.

But when you get too far here, too far there, and I said, you

never wanna get to the point where the citizens say it's so bad.

Just come in and do anything.

Do whatever you have to do to make it right.

Because there will be police officers that'll do that and it

won't be good for our profession.

And I think we've worked so hard to try to get back to getting, gaining that trust.

'cause a lot of people did drink the Kool Aid about, how bad the police.

Our, it just, and I think I actually got written down on a

piece of paper in front of me.

Citizens Behind the Badge we're educators.

We have to be educated, we have to educate people about what law

enforcement is all about, public safety, but more importantly, what

citizens' roles are in that process.

It's just not the police, it's just not rolling up what are the responsibilities,

what's the involvement, what's the role of our citizens in the policing,

criminal justice, public safety, process.

And I think that what we can do, these podcasts are great.

I think we get 'em out and just not cop stories.

It's, Hey, gotta show up to the city council meetings.

You gotta go to your, every city co or every city that I know of has some kind

of public safety committee made up of two or three people from the city council.

Have you ever been to that meeting?

Let 'em know that public safety is a concern of yours.

And I, I think that, I don't think we're gonna get out, we're out of the woods yet.

but I do think that I see some light at the end of the tunnel.

I see officers out there that are doing a better job.

you, they're more active.

I think you see more support for law enforcement.

'cause people have finally come to the realization that it's very small

group of people that are bound, beating that drum about getting rid

of the police, defunding the police.

And since we have great organizations like Citizens Behind the Badge Court

and said, Hey, wait a second there, there's two sides of this story.

I've done a, an informal survey on my own over the last several years.

And I think I was telling you, I, I'll be at a cocktail party or a

picnic and I'll just ask somebody.

I says, I got a question.

Have you personally ever been in contact with a police officer

when you needed police service?

You'd be surprised how many people have never called the police.

Never.

Just never.

No.

But I, know somebody that had my next door neighbor had their kid's bike was stolen.

have you, have you ever seen a police officer this one?

I always too.

Have you ever seen a police officer with his hands on his gun?

Oh no.

I've never seen, I said, here's the big one.

Have you ever seen a police officer point his gun at anybody?

And to this day, probably, if I've asked that question a thousand times, maybe

two people have said yes to any of those.

and you think, then where all these dead people that we're killing, we gotta,

they gotta be laying around someplace.

Yeah.

Isn't that interesting though?

Isn't that interesting, Louis?

Because we were just talking about that on our last podcast and about the

statistics, and Craig was saying that, some 60 some odd million contacts.

Per year with law enforcement and how infrequent the, the use of

forces are the negative contacts.

Less than 2%.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Think about it.

So when you have those conversations, 'cause people ask me about behind the

badge and what are, what am I doing now?

I'm always proud to say that I'm involved with this group.

I just ask him those simple s When was the last time you saw

a police officer pull his gun?

Yeah,

probably.

No.

anybody that's ever had their gun pointed and they'll go on and on

and they, it's just not there.

Even ask a police officer, when is the last time you pulled your gun?

I, happen to be the father of a police officer and, she's been

on for ru 16, 17 years, I think maybe once, twice in 17 years.

and she works some pretty high risk things.

But I wanted to interject here at this point.

take a, quick pause and remind everybody that this podcast

is Heroes Behind the Badge.

You're, listening to one of the true heroes, and that is a gentleman who

served, local, state, and federal.

He's got a better handle on policing than probably almost anyone.

And his name is Louis Kios and he is here today talking

about his life and his career.

And this podcast is brought to you by Citizens Behind the Badge.

Yeah, Citizens Behind the Badge.org.

Dot org, okay.

That's where you can go to find out all about Louis's on there.

His picture's on there.

Bill Fr is on there.

he's one of our founding directors.

I'm a founding director.

Craig Floyd is the chairman, of, and CEO and president and head Puba.

He is the man who created this idea.

Much responsibility.

Yeah.

Many other things off camera.

we've all mentioned in this podcast.

Todd, really,

what about

Craig?

So I, wanna ask Louis.

So Louis, all these years that you were in law enforcement and as Dennis had

just stated, state, local, state, and federal, what's the craziest story?

Wow, that's a great question.

wow.

That's a good one.

Bill.

I've never been asked that.

Did you ever pull your gun?

yeah.

You know what?

I probably, when you said that.

Through my mind back when I was a cop, if you got like a bank call, you had to have

your shotgun out or you had your gun out.

But I can't remember ever pointing my gun at somebody.

IJI just don't remember.

I'm a pretty good, YY yap and try to talk people outta stuff because

I obviously, I did want to get hurt myself, but didn't wanna hurt people.

But, there's some guys that get in a situation that it, that, that

calls for that, kind of force.

But getting back to your question, you know what I, probably the.

The day I got the call from director, probably was wanna talk about I know I do.

I tell you, let me tell you one of the highlights real quick.

I got the director and I went to Kansas City, for a briefing.

And,

the, Kelly, the, I, Clarence Kelly Bill, many of you may, many of you may

not know that after Hoover passed away, Clarence Kelly became the FBI director.

He happened to be my chief.

He was the chief in Kansas City and Nixon selected him 'cause

he had been a former FBI agent.

Looked just like Clark Kent, the guy just when I remember seeing, he swore me in and

but they named the, building after him, the, Kansas City office.

And the director and I are sitting in the, the SAC, the

special agent in charge office.

And we're sitting there and I'm looking out the window and there's a park

called Monkey Park, and it's in the Hispanic community there in Kansas City.

And I played there when I was a kid.

My uncle and I would walk up the street and play in that dirt parking lot.

And now I'm sitting in this office with the director being briefed by

the SAC on some shit, crazy stuff.

And I'm looking out there and say, is this a great country?

A lot, is this a great country that a kid from Kansas City that played in that

dust bowl right there, they, that we call the baseball field that one day we would

be sitting here with the FBI director.

And I, think that's where sometimes I, I get a little emotional because I think

this is the greatest country in the world.

There should not be the issues that we have crime wise.

Everybody should be safe, everybody should be fed.

I can't, I hate to see hungry people.

and who are the, who makes sure that we all do the right thing.

It's the cops.

It's the cops, it's the police officers that get into this profession.

I, used to teach an executive leadership course, and I used

to always say, you know what?

Don't forget the why.

Why did you become a cop?

why did you become, remember when you, because every, cop, all you guys that

were in law enforcement, somewhere along the way, somebody asked you

during the interview process, why do you wanna be a police officer?

And we said, I want to take care of people.

I want to, get back to the community.

And then why is it six months later you're beating people with a belly stick?

Or you're, you're stealing shit.

Then you know, you blah, blah.

You forget the why, and that's where leadership comes in.

You gotta remember what the, why was.

I, I graduated.

I was working the midnight shift, let me tell you, at

three o'clock in the afternoon.

My first day I was already in my uniform.

I couldn't wait to get to the police station.

Couldn't it be great if you felt that way every day, is years later.

Isn't that the, isn't that the truth, Louis?

Because when we all first started and I remembered, man, this is

You gotta asked that question, didn't you?

the thing of it is, you first started the job and you were so

gung-ho and you were so into it, right?

And you thought, wow, this is like having front row seats to

the biggest freak show in America.

You would see the craziest shit that nobody would ever see, right?

And I remember as a young cop, I was like, man, I'd almost do this job for free.

Yeah.

This is like totally unbelievable the things that you would see.

And I remember for a number of years.

I had more fun when I was at work than on my days off.

And I didn't even, I didn't even wanna have my days off.

I wanted to, work every day.

And, I remember some of the old timers back then too.

and, they were all so cynical and they had just seen so much over

their careers that they had just become very cynical and ca calloused.

And I thought to myself, you know what?

That's never gonna be me.

And then all of a sudden, one day that was me.

Yeah.

And, the job ate you up a little bit.

I want to do one quick side note over to Dennis here.

I'm gonna ask Dennis a question.

'cause we were bantering this about how many times people have pulled their guns.

Dennis, how many times were you with me riding along and you saw me pull my gun?

let's see.

Per shift, I'd say an average of 8, 8, 8 to 10

per shift.

Can, I say going back to that, I think we, and,

Dennis, you were talking a little bit earlier about leadership.

Yeah.

And I think that's what's so important.

I, see great leaders out here.

We do have great leaders in law enforcement.

I'm a little disappointed that we haven't heard more from our leadership.

we have a lot of guys out, a lot of associations.

I've not heard anything from these groups when they're talking about defund the

police and officers getting hurt and, and I'm thinking, where are these leaders?

But going back.

To what we were talking about.

I think the responsibility is as a great leader to, to create an environment where

every day when that cop, if it's his first day or if it's his, the day, I remember

the day I retired, I put my uniform on and I was almost as excited that day as

I was, the day I started going to my, the midnight shift at Central patrol

division at Admiral, on Admiral Street.

so nobody does it better than us.

I, and I'm gonna say this and I want to throw some credit to Craig as one

of the few times I get a chance to do it on this scale, all you gotta do

is just go to the national memorial.

You go to the candlelight vigil.

I remember Craig, gave me a, an honor that I, never forgot.

He let me reach, I think it was four or five names, Craig.

I remember studying those names and pronouncing those names.

'cause I thought if I get up there and that family, is it Martinez

or Martinis or whatever, I get up there and I say that name.

I want to just say it is clear and it is loud.

So I drive home the fact that we never forget.

and when people talk about, Louis, why would we you stick around

so long in this profession you could've made, 'cause I did.

I was fortunate.

I went out to private sector and I made some good money.

there's nothing wrong with making money, lemme tell you that.

I, tell myself I'd go out and do it again.

I know that sounds crazy for a 74-year-old guy, but I would go out and do it again.

And if the profession, if you could do something that makes you a 74-year-old

guy, say shit, if somebody called me today and say, Hey Lily, could

you go down and just do one shift?

I think.

Come on.

I think I could do it.

Let's do it.

I'm gonna, I'll talk Sheriff Mina here in Orange County.

But I think every police officer should

go to the National Memorial...

I totally,

...and just stand there and look at those names thinking, Hey,

'cause you got a tendency to think that all this craft started when you

showed up at the police headquarters, and, but when I leave, they're

gonna make a toenail shop out of it.

That's not how it works.

You have a new generation that comes in, when you create the memorial, you

have, you go there, I don't know how many professions, you could go to and

look there and say, wow, I'm part of this and what's really, and it was all

worth the effort, the blood, sweat, and tears, and this is why I did it.

I tell you, that's pretty emotional.

And what's really important, Louie, is

to go during police week.

Oh my god.

I remember my first time, biller for, took me there and I met Craig at that point.

And obviously the rest is history, but, I could not believe what I saw.

I don't know.

Was it, what is it, 40, 50,000 cops from all over the world actually.

Yeah, Gather there with the families to honor the fallen officers.

That is, it's, if you've never seen it and every police o I've taken

my daughter numerous times, every police officer needs to do that.

Yeah.

Because that will reinforce the reason, the why you became a cop.

Yeah.

and I think it reinforces that we never forget.

Yes.

No, it's easy to say that.

It's easy to Oh, yeah.

we never forget.

We don't forget.

I could take you a place where it shows you we don't forget.

Never.

We always said too, and, thanks to Craig in, his

efforts, said absolutely we're there.

But, bill, has always said that helped him in his career

when he came to police week, and he was reminded of why he became a cop and,

really met all the good people there.

But, I always say to people that, to your point, that every officer should come

to National Police Week at least once.

and realize when you look at that memorial, you're

following in the footsteps

very much so of some

of the greatest people that have ever walked the face of this earth.

Yeah.

And then now, because the National Law Enforcement Museum was built

in 2018, you can look at the names.

Remember the sacrifice, honor them, but then go across the street and

see the full story, the complete story of American law enforcement.

Yeah.

And realize that this profession is so important to this nation.

Yeah.

It's the reason why we have the freedoms that we do and, can live

the kind of, wonderful lives that all of us have been blessed with.

Yeah.

And if not for law enforcement, that wouldn't be possible.

So hopefully every officer will come.

But I also want individual private citizens to come because they need

to be reminded of the service and sacrifice that law enforcement gives,

to this country each and every day.

it's not easy, as you pointed out.

and today, over the last five years, it's been really difficult with the

defunding defame, the police movement.

We do seem to be moving in a better direction now.

I hope it lasts.

I like your point about.

Keep the pendulum in the middle.

Don't swing left, don't swing right.

Keep it right.

Analogy in the middle, everything will go a lot easier.

Yeah.

And Louis, I'm so proud, and thankful that you've been a part of this podcast

today, but more importantly that you are such an important part of the law

enforcement profession for 36 years.

Thank you my friend.

it's an honor.

Alright.

Absolutely.

Thank all my honor, and to be, on this podcast.

I, think I was telling, the gentleman before you were taking a break earlier.

I've done a lot of stuff.

This made me nervous today.

I don't know why.

Oh, come on.

After all you've been through.

The throne of power up there in DC This is happen.

I had my wife load up my grandkids, I said,

I don't want any distraction.

I got more lights behind you.

If you saw what's behind this screen here, you'd think, Larry, no, I

really appreciate you giving me.

Thank you, Louis, your story.

we pride ourselves in getting people like you to come here and tell their stories,

because your story is an inspiration.

Your story should be an inspira, and your words are inspirational.

Your, optimism.

Your optimism.

not everybody has your optimism and.

yeah, I still think it's the greatest country in the world,

the greatest profession in the world.

And when you have an opportunity to interact and be a part of a, of

organization like citizens behind the band and, interact with great

professional people like yourself, today, I know why I stay, connected.

It'd be easy for me to retire and, just do crazy stuff.

But thanks to Craig and, you guys, I still able to contribute and that made

me, that makes me feel very, good.

So thank you very much for having me today.

We're glad you're connected.

We are glad to have you as a guest.

That'll conclude this episode of Heroes Behind the Badge.

Please, go to our website at Citizens Behind the Badge,

and Citizens BehindBadge.org.

I forgot the ORG.

The ORG is important.

You can find out all about Citizens Behind the Badge.

You can find out how to get involved in support of the men and women of

law enforcement, and you can find out how to hear the next episode of

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