What if the reason you keep choosing the wrong partner isn’t because you’re broken… but because you were trained to survive in chaos?

In this powerful conversation, memoirist Jo Ann Fawcett shares the truth behind her seven marriages, including more than two decades as a prison wife, and the painful patterns that kept her trying harder, staying loyal longer, and believing she wasn’t “enough.”

We talk about:

1. The hidden conditioning that makes chaos feel like love
2. Red flags women often miss (especially inside high-pressure religious culture)
3. How narcissistic abuse can be quiet, “polite,” and still devastating
4. The moment she knew the relationship would never change
5. The “cord-cutting” turning point that helped her reclaim her voice and freedom

Jo Ann is the author of Midlife Magic, The Prince Was Wrong: Leaving the Narcissist Behind, and the final book in her Toxic to Thriving trilogy, Wisdom from My Grandmothers. Her story is raw, surprising, and deeply liberating—especially if you’ve ever wondered why you keep repeating the same relationship cycle.

Connect with Jo Ann + get her books: joannfawcett.com

Want premium clients from your content?

Grab a free Client Acquisition Audit and I’ll show you exactly where your message, offer, and CTA are leaking conversions—and the 3 fixes to turn your podcast/Substack into a client pipeline.

👉 Book here: https://coachsalchemist.com

This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

Podtrac - https://analytics.podtrac.com/privacy-policy-gdrp

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: What if the reason you keep choosing the wrong partner wasn't because you were broken, but because you were trained to survive in chaos?

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Today's guest lived through seven marriages, including being a prison wife, and for decades believed she was the problem. Then a global shutdown forced her to finally listen to the one voice she'd been ignoring. Her own.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: What she discovered changed everything, and once you hear it, you may never look at love, loyalty, or trying harder the same way again.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Hi, and welcome to the You World Order Showcase Podcast, where we feature life health transformational coaches and spiritual entrepreneurs stepping up to be the change they seek in the world. I'm your host, Jill Hart, The Coach's Alchemist, on a mission to empower coaches and entrepreneurs to amplify their voice, monetize their mission, and get visible.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: If you're ready to start attracting premium clients without chasing algorithms or hunting people down like a banshee on a mission.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Head over to Coachesalchemist.com and schedule your free client acquisition audit. It's the first step to building a business where your clients seek you out rather than you having to hunt them down. Today, we are chatting with Joanne Fawcett. Joanne is a memoirist, survival, and voice for women healing from toxic and narcissistic relationships. After 7 marriages marked by abuse, abandonment, and emotional manipulation.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Including more than two decades as a prison wife.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Joanne chooses a radic… chose a radically different path.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Her first memoir, Midlife Magic, chronicles her journey from a conventional suburban life into spiritual awakening, self-reclamation, and mystical discovery. Her second book, The Prince Was Wrong, Leaving the Narcissist Behind, exposes the hidden patterns of narcissistic abuse

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And emotional traps that keep women stuck.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Her third book, Wisdom from My Grandmothers, completes her Toxic to Thriving trilogy. Now living in Portland, Oregon, Joanne supports women in reclaiming their voice, power, and joy, and proving that it's never too late to choose yourself and build a life that actually feels like home. Welcome to the show, Joanne. It's great to have you with us.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Thank you, that was a great intro!

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Jo Ann Fawcett: that.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, no worries.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I'm really excited to hear your story, because this is kind of… it's very different. So, let me ask you the big question. What's the most significant thing, in your opinion, as individuals we can do to make an impact on how the world is going?

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Jo Ann Fawcett: I think we need to find our voice.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: And be true to ourselves.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: And just love yourself enough to be as authentic as you can. And… You know, that'll ripple out.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It really does ripple out.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: We've… we've often…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I think that we have to do everything for everyone, and please everyone, and we're trying to get approbation, like, confirmation that we are enough, which kind of leads to my first question, which is believing that you're not enough in relationships, and what does that story cost you?

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And why do you keep repeating it? Let me, let me just back up and ask you to tell us your story.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Sure. What do you think is going to weave that in? It will. I grew up in the 50s and 60s, you know, the happy little family, there were 4 kids, my dad worked, my mom stayed at home, you watched Leave It to Beaver.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: And all those, you know, fun little shows where you have the picture of the, you know, white picket fence family, and the mom's wearing pearls and a dress all day, which my mom did not, but,

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Jo Ann Fawcett: you know, and then I joined the Mormon church when I was 12. My family did not, but again, and you have this picture of happy families, and, you know, I wanted that. I thought, that's what everybody has, and I wanted that, you know, I wanted to meet Mr. Wonderful, and get married, and have all these children, and I married…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: 7 not Mr. Wonderfuls and only had one child. So, the universe had other plans for me, and it turns out that's okay.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: But I felt like I had to get married, and especially as a Mormon, you needed to be married to have sex, you know, and have kids, you know, you weren't.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And get sealed!

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Yeah, that too. You know, I've done that a few times. But,

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Jo Ann Fawcett: you… you… I, there's no premarital sex, technically. You know, there's no living with the person, and they didn't really teach, you know, what are the things, the discussions you need to be having before you get married beyond, are we gonna go to church? Sure, okay, but it was like,

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Jo Ann Fawcett: you know, we didn't talk about how you plan your finances, and all these life skills, it just didn't happen. And so, I kept getting married, thinking, okay, the next one will be better, and because he's a member of the church, and 5 of them were, I just thought, oh, we'll be on the same page, and we never were. And, you know…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: So, that just kept leading me down one rabbit hole after another.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And they were… and they were perfect, you know, they were perfect.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: men at church, and you get home, it's like, not so perfect. So…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I live in Idaho. I have lived there for 20 years. I am not Mormon. I've never been Mormon.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: But you've been around them.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But I know… I know the church. I've actually had a calling.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: when we lived in Utah for the local ward, I was… I was a Boy Scout leader.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Okay, okay.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Well, my boys were in Boy Scouts, because they're…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: There are some parts that are really great, but the thing that outsiders looking in see is that there's just this wonderful family, and really, they are great for families.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: They are.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: raising… I've had 5 children, and I lived in California for a long time, and people were like, you know, there's something wrong with you. But in Utah, in Idaho, it's just like…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: yeah, you're just like all the rest of us, so I was like, you fit in so… Yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: The picture that you see on the outside is kind of like Norman Rockwell.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Right.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: that's not really how it is. And the church puts a lot of pressure on you to do stuff.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That isn't really conducive to family life.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: No, yeah. And, you know, I will tell people, I'm very honest, it's like, I left the church not because I had a huge trauma, it's because all of a sudden I found a new path.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: And I didn't need the church anymore. So, thankfully, I'm not one of those who associate the church with cult trauma or whatever, and I'm happy for that, but I just married

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Jo Ann Fawcett: several wrong people, so…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And it's easy to do, because you want to be part of this community that you're part of, and you're getting the…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: the year…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: you're wanting the you're enough message, but you never get it. Religion never gives you the you're enough, whether it's Mormonism, or Christianity, or Buddhism, or whatever it is.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Maybe put in some of that.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Right, and after husband number 2, who was not a Mormon, I had a daughter. So now, it's like, I have to find a father for my daughter, you know. Turns out, I really didn't need to do that, because she and I were really happy between marriages, you know, as mom and daughter.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: And she had a great role model with my sister's husband, her uncle, and she had great-grandparents, and, you know…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Some… I wish she would have been old enough to tell me, I don't need a dad, Mom. I mean, she wanted a dad, but her dad had died, and, you know, I just kept thinking I needed to fill that void, but she wasn't feeling the void, and, you know, it took us a long time to heal from that.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: From all the crappy stepfathers, so… Yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So, you divorced your first husband, and your second husband passed?

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Jo Ann Fawcett: My second husband committed suicide when my… our daughter was 5 weeks old.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: So, he had been.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Wow.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Mental health and substance abuse issues, and he kicked me out when I was 7 months pregnant, and then he committed suicide after she was born.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That's tough. It was. Husband number 3?

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Jo Ann Fawcett: 4, 5, 6, and 7, did you divorce? The rest of them are all divorces, yeah. And actually, husband number 5…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: You know, we told everybody we were married, but we were never married, so, you know.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: But, you know, that's the way… but, you know, we were together long enough, and, you know, we just… because, you know, we were members of the church, and we weren't going to tell people we didn't get married.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Because we didn't. But, anyway, so yes, I've divorced several times, and been a widow once.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: So… and lots of abuse in… in most… all those situations.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So, do you want to talk about…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And you were… in 20 of those years, you were a prison wife.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: I wish.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: how did all that work out? Was that another person that wasn't in the church.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Yeah, he was not… yeah, he was not a member of the church. I met him through… my roommate, when I met him, her husband was also in prison, and I'd been to prison to visit him with her, and, you know, I met some other people, so I… prison didn't… going to prison didn't scare me.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Then she came home one day and said, oh, I met this really nice guy, he's visiting his mom, he's really smart, he's your age. I go, oh, smart! Would be a new kind of boyfriend for me, so that would be, you know, I'm happy to meet him. And so we started writing, and then I got approved to visit.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: And, you know, we just had, you know, we had great visits. He's very educated, and smart, and charming, and has great stories, and we just got along really well.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: And, you know, we courted for 5 years, and then, oh, I think we should probably get married. It's like, okay, yeah, sure, why not? We're both in our 40s.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: And…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: And people just thought I was crazy, but he was like, well, he seems to be the best that I've had so far. You know, he's not hitting me, and he's not yelling at me because we're in a prison visiting room. Turns out, narcissists don't have to yell. They can reduce you to an inch with a very quiet.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: serious voice.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: You know, so it's all about the words. There didn't have to be any hitting, and the words are just as powerful and hurtful.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: And that's what he used.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Behind.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: You know, without anybody else hearing us.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: So, everybody else around him thought he was charming and wonderful.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: But, yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Narcissists are often like that.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Yes. Everybody loves them until you're… until you're the brunt of their displeasure, or disappointment, and, like, you're not doing what they want.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: So, when it… when it came down to it, and we were trying to reconcile our differences, and this is all during the pandemic, and I'd moved to Portland, you know, it's like… and it's like…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: fighting in letters. You know, it's like, so that's how I got the whole second book. I have all these quotes from all his letters from him chewing me out, and a good wife should do this, and a good wife should be grateful for this. It's like, dude, here's how it really was, but they don't want to listen to your truth.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: So…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And he's in prison all this time, so…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: I met him in prison, we got married in prison, he's still in prison, he has health issues, he will die in prison. And he's been there since the early 80s, so he's been in prison most of his life.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So in a lot of ways, though he was your husband, You were single.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Pretty much. I lived in his family home.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: His mom passed, and I lived in the family home, but then it became my responsibility to take care of everything regarding to that home, so I was like, a good wife should be grateful that she's got this house to live in. I go, there are no other prison wives in this county, this rich California county that I'm living in. You know, I don't see them at the prison.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: And, it costs a lot of money to live here, and I'm making good money, but I'm not making enough to really do a dent.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: And your house is falling apart, dude. You know, it's really old, and it's falling apart, and I can't keep up with all the repairs. And he just thought I was being a terrible wife, because I didn't appreciate this house he, you know…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: That's up.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That's like your own little prison.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Yes, and…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: I was, you know, once the pandemic hit, I was working at home all the time, because I'm a bookkeeper, and thankfully I could do that, but I'm at home, and I'm listening to the wind, and the trees almost falling, and, you know, cracking, and oh, something else is going wrong, and it wasn't a tiny house, it wasn't huge, but it wasn't tiny, and it was on a big piece of property, so…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: beautiful part of California,

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Where… where was it?

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Jo Ann Fawcett: It was in Marin County, you know, north of San Francisco, so… But…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: prison wives just don't live there unless they, no offense, they live in the poor side of town.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: And they're not trying to handle all the upkeep for this big house.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: So, that was a real bone of contention, you know, and he always said he was gonna get out, and he always said he could provide for me. I go.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Okay, I'm in my 60s now, I don't see any retirement plans set up, I have to do it myself now, and it's like, I'll be lucky if I can stop working at 90. Well, I'm happy to say that at 71, I'm slowly easing into retirement and releasing some of my clients.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Finally.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: So, yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It sounds like Oregon is a good place for you. Did you write all your books in Oregon?

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Book writing part come along.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: It's funny, because before the pandemic, one of my clients

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Jo Ann Fawcett: one of my bookkeeping clients is an author and, like, a book coach, or book whatever, and she had come to a networking meeting I was at and said, oh, I'm going to be offering this, like, workshop or a writing group. And I said, oh, that could be fun, because years ago, somebody had said I needed to write my story, because I was always promoting his work and his writings and things.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Oh, you should write your stories. Like, yeah, no, no, I'm not a writer.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: And I decided, I'm gonna go to this group, because by then, I'd had some UFO experiences, and some, you know, magical experiences, and paranormal things, and so I started writing about that and all, and about the recovering from the marriages. And I moved, you know, in July of that first pandemic year, and then I finished that book.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So I published that book here, and then, you know, the other two books have been written while I've lived here, so… and my daughter lives 6 blocks away, so that's why I moved here.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: You know, come move near me, Mom, and be in my quarantine bubble. It's like, okay.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: And so we've managed to both stay in the same neighborhood, and she, you know, I work from home, and she lives and works in the same neighborhood, so it's great.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: I love that for you, and… Yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, I'm so glad that you have a daughter.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: that you have.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Me too.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Someone in your life that's That's been sort of normal-ish for you.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: And she's a good… she's a good mirror, and, you know, we've healed our mother-daughter crappy stepfather stuff, and…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: we're in a really good place. You know, we're best friends, she's one of my strongest cheerleaders, and we're each other's sounding boards, and it's, you know, it's what I wish for every mother-daughter relationship. And we do things together.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: You know.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: We'll go on little outings, and we meet, you know, a couple times a week for lunch or dinner, so… and we, you know, we check in every day, so… it's great.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It is great. I…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I have lots of children, but my youngest daughter, who I had when I was 44, is… I'm just really close to her.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Nice.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I love doing stuff with her. I realize that, you know, she's… she's starting out in her life, and she's gonna have her own adventure, but she's just, like, one of those so grounded people.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Oh, nice, nice.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Which makes the world a better place.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: It does. It does help.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: It does help.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So… So, what were your first red flags?

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That you wish you'd understood earlier, and the ones that so many men… women still are missing.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: a lot of it was like, you know, and again, in the Mormon church, you know, the Bible says, you know, men and women are helpmeets, and a lot of men, no offense, take this as the man is in charge. And to me, it means equal partnership.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: And…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: In the Mormon church, and the women have good leadership roles, but the men are the head of the household, so many men take that way too seriously, so there's no equal partnership, and I'm all for equal partnership now, and I will

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Jo Ann Fawcett: fight tooth and nail to have that. You know, I'm very transparent in any dating situation I get into, and it's like, that's right… that's right on my dating profile, you know?

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Jo Ann Fawcett: And so, that is a red flag when you don't see that happening. And also, you know, if they talk to you in a way that's very demeaning, and, you know, the narcissist is… it always has to be their way, so it's like, you can't tell them with any success, or with any…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: you know, you can't tell them, well, you might not be right about that. Oh, I'm always right. And I tried to bring up my points to him, the prince, that was his actual… that is his actual prison nickname, so that's why I used it in the title of the book, but…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: you know, you can't tell them, it's like, well, I… I don't think you're right about that. It's like, they get so diff… they get so offended, and it's like…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: You know, you just… so, it's not like I stopped trying to say that, and towards the end, I was just saying, you know, you're not right about this. And I finally decided to stand up for myself, and at least share my concerns. Now, he didn't like any of my concerns, and it didn't… he didn't try to

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Jo Ann Fawcett: to do anything, and I'm finally… I'm part of a relationship coaching mastermind now, and, you know, one of the things they were saying is, like, don't… don't tell, don't try to even tell the other person what they need to do, like, to fix things. Like, just keep saying, you know, what you need.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: And, you know, you gotta give it to yourself, but they're not gonna change. All you can do is tell them what you need, and so I was trying to explain this to this person, and, you know, he didn't get it, or he would just say, you know, I asked him one time, besides all the good wife should, which just

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Jo Ann Fawcett: grates me. And it's like, you know, it's like, why didn't you want to, like, be more affectionate? Or why didn't you want to, you know, make out more, or whatever, and it's like…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Well, you should… and this is what he said, like, near the very end, it's like, you should have tried to be prettier.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: And that was his way of… because, no offense, it's like, I'm not conceited, but I don't think I'm ugly. But it's like… but I was usually overweight when we were together, and a lot of that is me…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: thyroid and diabetes and, you know, stress. Stress. Stress.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: puts the weight right on me. And, I'd go right for the comfort food, and my grandma, years ago, is like, Joanne, I can tell you're happy now, because you're losing weight.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: I go, thanks, Grandma, but yeah, you're right. And that happens, like, and now, you know, I've got my diabetes under control, I don't… I'm not even going to the acupuncturist anymore right now for my stress. I walk all the time, I'm taking… you know, I'm not an athlete, I'm not at the gym, but I do walk pretty much every day.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: And I'm happier! And the weight is coming off.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: So…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: you know, I'm not gonna ever be a size 2, and I don't care. I'm happy with the way I look and feel most days, and, you know, I'm okay with who I am. And…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: I'm, you know, I'm not even a size 10, I don't care! But…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: I still think I'm a vibrant person at 71 and attractive, so… You should have tried to be prettier. It's like, really? You're in prison, dude.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Who else is coming here to, to, to be with you?

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Jo Ann Fawcett: You know, could you be a little more grateful? No. So…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: No, they… narcissists don't… Don't look at gratitude.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Oh, and…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: at all. And they, they know.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Or they… they tried to project that They know everything.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Yes.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And when you question them, they really don't have the background to back up the knowing everything, because people that really do know a lot, they're usually very curious, so they're not… they don't care whether you believe them or not.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Right, right.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: They get a difference to me.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: And it's funny, because he… he and I have a mutual friend, and that mutual friend, he's been out of prison for several years, and, we're good friends, and so we talk, and… and, you know, he can see… I mean, he's really good friends with the ex, but he can see through the BS.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: You know, and he's like…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: He goes, yeah, your writing is way better than his, and the ex thinks he's this brilliant writer. Like, yeah, my books have sold… I've published two of his books, and it's like, my books have sold more than his.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: And that was back in the day where it wasn't print-on-demand, so you had to buy the thousand copies that now sit in the garage that are now in the dumpster type of thing, but it's interesting to…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: have outside people who knew him, you know.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: way before they knew me, know what… what… he goes, yeah, we just let him talk.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: It's like, yeah, and I was gonna say, it's like, one of the… the last time I saw him in person was, like, April…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: of 2023, so it was, like, right as the divorce papers were getting signed, and I tried to remind him, it's like, you know, I'm a really amazing, a really good person. He rolled his eyes. It's like, oh, you didn't just roll your eyes at me.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: You're the, you know… again, I don't need a ton of validation, because I know I'm a good person.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: But to have your partner of 25 years just roll their eyes?

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Jo Ann Fawcett: It's like, ugh.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: It's very, insulting.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: But, you know, that's his problem. He's still in prison, I'm out here having a great life, so…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I'm dying to know, what is he in prison for?

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Jo Ann Fawcett: He's in prison for masterminding a murder that happened in 1982.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: I don't think he was involved, but he was convicted of masterminding a murder that two kids did, and then supposedly he helped them dump the body and helped steal things from the guy.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: I don't… I don't believe that's really how it went down, but that's another story, but… yeah. So, you know, first-degree murder.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: So he's always had a life without parole sentence, but, you know, a lot of people are getting their life without parole sentences reduced down to life with, like, 25 to life, so they're starting to come up for parole hearings, but again, he has health issues, and that's not really going to happen for him, so…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, and at this point, having significant health issues and leaving prison would be a death sentence, because you can't take care of yourself, and at least in prison, you've got health benefits.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Kinda. Sort of.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Life that he knows.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Five years is a long time.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Well, and he's been there, he was there already.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: In 1982, I didn't meet him till 1997, so he's… he was there, like, 15 years.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And had really, you know, gotten in the groove of prison a lot, you know, it's like he'd been through a lot, so… yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Huh.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And to this, I would say to you.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Today, when I'm at activities, and… because I've been to a lot of UFO conferences, because he did that in the military, and so I used to go speak about what he did, but I go to them now to support my friend who organizes one of them, and it's like, well, how's your husband? I go, well, he hasn't been my husband for a while, you know, so I don't promote him anymore.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: But it's like, it's like, you divorced him? It's like, why? Because they think he's so wonderful. Like, oh, he was really good at the military stuff, but not so good as a husband. You know, but they just…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: soup.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: are amazed that I divorced him. So I was like, well, because you don't know the whole story.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So tell me about the UFO stuff, because I'm…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Big fan. Did you hear Eric van Donegan died?

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Jo Ann Fawcett: I did hear that, yes.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: I've had several UFO sightings, and I didn't really know much about it until I met this ex. And, you know, it became apparent that that's what he and his dad were involved with in their military careers. A lot of… it was all top-secret stuff, whatever they did, and then a lot of it had to do with space, and traveling in space, and dealing with non-humans.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: in space, on Earth, a lot of that, so I learned

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Jo Ann Fawcett: the reality of… of that. I learned the reality of UFOs and non-human creatures that come here and stay here and kidnap people and do bad things and do good things, a lot of good things, too. So I… I've embraced the reality of that.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: And, because, you know, there's a lot of… the universe is huge, you know, there's more than one… it's like…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: It's huge, and to think that nothing else is out there is silly. But, so I… and I've had some up-close… I've had one really up-close-and-personal sighting, and then I've had other sightings, and…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: So, I… it's like, it was really easy for me to talk about that, because I do believe in that, and I think understanding about non-human creatures, especially the really friendly ones, I love, and I love… and… and it really goes with my whole…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: you know, path now, because many of them are very spiritual, and they want to interact with us, and to me, it's like, we're all connected anyway, so…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Even then.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Yes, that…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Consciousness.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Yes, they're very conscious, and even the magical practices I just like, it's all connected, so let's all be friends, folks. And let's raise ourselves to their vibration, because they're so more advanced and so more conscious than we are. So…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I think that might be coming.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: I do too! I do too!

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Jo Ann Fawcett: And there are many of them… I'm sorry, I keep interrupting. Now we're on my passion project. But, I mean, many of them really want to be visible… not that they're not visible, but they want to interact with us.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: They want to be our friends, and they want to…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: You know, do stuff with us, so… I wonder…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I wonder if, Jeff Sessa Smith's encounter wasn't with an ET?

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Yes, it was. And what's interesting is that's what this last ex told me. He goes, yeah, you know, the whole gold plate, the Joseph Smith, he wasn't talking to God, he was talking to an ET. It's like, oh, that makes sense.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: The gods?

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And the whole, you know, lots of planets type thing? Yeah.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Yeah, and it's like…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: the more… I work with a channeling medium, and the more I learn through the people I talk to, it's like, the spirit world is so different than the Mormon church teaches you, and Jesus is this great teacher. I mean, he was a real person, but it's like, he's fishing, he's just talking to people.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: His plan was never what they said in the Bible, blah blah blah. So it's like, I've learned… but yes, I do believe the whole… who Joseph… Joseph Smith saw was definitely not human, and not the Christian God.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: So…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And angels, by definition, are ETs.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Yes. Yes.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Pointing out the obvious here that most people skip right over.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I also wonder if they didn't, manipulate the DNA, to create humans.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: What I've learned, and this was taught by a lovely cat species scientist, who has come to Earth plenty to do a lot of research.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Is that.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: several species… it's not like they… they helped us… they helped enhance us. I don't know if that was DNA manipulation, but several of them really wanted to be in control of planet Earth and said, oh, we created humans, we did this and this and this.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But it was more like different species have helped us thrive here on Earth along the way, but no one species, you know, created us humans and should be in charge of us.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: So… so that… that's, that's lovely, but… and I'm sure, you know, and they have come and helped teach us things, and, you know, we're, you know, again, if you look at our technology today, they're still helping us. We're… we're not making all that stuff up by ourselves, and somebody's helping certain people who do spacecraft.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: They're getting their science from somewhere!

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Jo Ann Fawcett: I know we have.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Some of them actually live here.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Oh, yeah!

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: All the time.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Oh, yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Under the water and under the earth.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Exactly. There are many species under the water, and there's several species who have bases here, and, you know, I love my favorite… well, one of my favorite species is the species that is shown in Jurassic World, those velociraptors, because that is a real alien species. They originated here on Earth, they've left the planet, their major… the main part of their empire is off-planet.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: They have several bases here, but they're… they've been helping the human militaries, especially the U.S. military, since the 50s. So, they look scary, but they're really beautiful, and they're really smart, and they're really family-oriented, and so they've helped us, they've been our allies for a long time.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: So, they're pretty cool.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: fascinating. I know. I could have you back just to talk about this.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Anytime.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Okay.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So, let me ask you the final question, which is, do you realize during the pandemic that something was deeply wrong? What was the exact moment you knew that this relationship was never going to change, and how did the truth finally set you free?

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Well, the first thing happened right… well, right at the beginning of the pandemic, because before the whole shutdown, like, right as the shutdown was about to happen, I took a psychic development class, and the closing exercise was

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Jo Ann Fawcett: we're gonna cut the cord with something that you need to release. And I said, I need to cut the cord on how the relationship currently is. I wasn't even thinking divorce, and I thought, this is what needs to… something needs to change here. And so I cut that energetic cord.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: And then, you know, then the pandemic happens, like, oh crap, and then you get settled into, you know, now I gotta work from home and change my whole life. But then I started thinking, really looking at, oh, well, what is it, how isn't it working? And so I started looking, that's when I said, oh yeah, my needs are not getting met, are they?

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Jo Ann Fawcett: And so that's… that's the point that pivoted me into thinking.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: what needs are not getting met, and how can I tell him? And I need to tell him. And so, yes, that spiraled into, like, 3 years of untangling, but I'm so glad, because now I have my life back.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: And I can be what I need to be, and I can serve…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: humanity the way I'm meant to, so… It's very freeing!

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And there is that big exhale.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Yeah, it's very freeing.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: you come to realize that I'm enough.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yes. All by myself, as a human being. I don't need somebody else to complete me.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: No.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: That doesn't mean I don't want somebody, but I don't need them.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, want and need are two different things.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: They are, they are. So, I'm gonna, I'm gonna just still be myself, and, you know, again, the relationship coach, her premises…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: you love on yourself enough, and you be the best person that you are, and that person's gonna come find you. Stop… stop chasing… it's like.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: oh, that's what I was doing wrong this time. It's like, I keep chasing, I keep looking, like, just relax, Joanne, do your thing. It's like, oh, okay, cool.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: They'll find me someday.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And there are more and more people that are really interested in what's happening in the UFO world.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Ert.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You… There's another…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Yeah, I know, there is.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I don't… UAP, I think?

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Yeah, yeah, but I have found that…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Bless them, many of my UFO friends…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Are on a very different political

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Jo Ann Fawcett: path or belief system than I am. So it's like, Huh?

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Jo Ann Fawcett: So I was like, huh, okay.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Anyway, so it's interesting, but I still go to the conferences for my one friend's conference, but yes, I do believe in all that, and we do agree on that part.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: But, so it is, it is fascinating, and, you know… It's all good.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It is all good, it's just a big, long adventure.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: It is.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So, how can people find you?

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Jo Ann Fawcett: I have a website, joannfawcett.com, so all the info about my books is on there. I would love to chat with anybody. I'm happy to be your mentor. You know, sign… the big thing is right now, sign up for my newsletter, because I'm talking about

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Jo Ann Fawcett: positive messages from all the books, and from the upcoming book. The grandmother's book will be out, you know, probably June or July. And, so there's a lot of… my weekly newsletters are positive messages, and then, you know, updates about my book and stuff. And I'm on Facebook and LinkedIn and Instagram, so…

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Jo Ann Fawcett: But signing up for my newsletter would be great.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Awesome. Thank you so much for joining us today. This has been a great conversation.

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Jo Ann Fawcett: Great, I've enjoyed it, so thank you for the great start to my day.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You can learn more about Joanne and find her books and sign up for her newsletter at joannfawcett.com. I'd like to thank you all for joining us today. If you're ready to amplify your voice, monetize your mission, and start attracting premium clients, your next step is simple. Head to The Coach's Alchemist and schedule your free client acquisition audit.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Join us for our next episode as we share what others are doing to raise the global frequency, and remember, change begins with you. You have all the power to change the world, start today, and get visible.