James Sloan talks about who is Jesus, whilst going through John 7:25-8:59. Also featuring a testimony!
-- ORIGIN --
This topic is part of the Origin series where we look at the birth of the church and ask why this Man, Jesus, from 2000 years ago still has a major impact on the world today.
-- MORE INFO --
CROWD Church is a digital church on a quest to discover how Jesus helps live a more meaningful life. We are a community, a space to explore the Christian faith and a place where you can contribute and grow.
More info: www.crowd.church
Welcome to this week's Crowd Church service.
Matt Edmundson:We are a digital church on a quest to discover how Jesus helps
Matt Edmundson:us live a more meaningful life.
Matt Edmundson:We are a community, a space to explore the Christian faith and a place
Matt Edmundson:where you can contribute and grow.
Matt Edmundson:Our service, uh, will last about an hour and in a few seconds you'll
Matt Edmundson:meet our hosts, uh, for our service, who will introduce today's talk.
Matt Edmundson:After the talk, we will have a time of worship and reflection after which we
Matt Edmundson:head into Conversation Street, where we look at your stories and questions
Matt Edmundson:that you've posted in the comments.
Matt Edmundson:Now, we want to invite you to connect with us here at Crowd Church, and we've got a
Matt Edmundson:few ways in which you can do just that.
Matt Edmundson:Firstly, you can engage with crowd from any device during our live
Matt Edmundson:stream, and if you're up for.
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Matt Edmundson:And one of the easiest ways for you to do that is join one of our
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Matt Edmundson:You can also subscribe to our fairly new podcast called What's the Story,
Matt Edmundson:Uh, where we deep dive into stories of faith and courage from everyday people.
Matt Edmundson:More information about all of these things can be found on our website,
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Matt Edmundson:And now the moment you've been waiting for is here.
Matt Edmundson:Our Online Church Service starts right now.
Matt Edmundson:Well, good afternoon and welcome to Crowd Church.
Matt Edmundson:Crowd Online Church.
Matt Edmundson:I am here with the very right Reverend s p j, and I dunno how many other initials
Matt Edmundson:we can give you John, John Harding.
Matt Edmundson:Great to have you with us, bro.
John Harding:It's great to be with you Matt.
John Harding:And uh, the less initials the better in my opinion..
John Harding:Yeah, it's good to see you and it's good to be here.
John Harding:Love what you guys are doing and it is always a joy to take up.
John Harding:So thank you for having me.
Matt Edmundson:Oh no, it's great.
Matt Edmundson:It's great.
Matt Edmundson:We've just, um, we've just been eating some of Zoe's muffins, haven't we?
Matt Edmundson:So it's, it's not a bad way to start.
John Harding:Zoe's Fantastic.
John Harding:So if Zoe does watch it back, I've gotta say they were excellent.
Matt Edmundson:Matt's put in the comments here.
Matt Edmundson:Where's my pistachio?
Matt Edmundson:I, I have no idea what that's about.
John Harding:Lasagna.
John Harding:And I'm, um, I'm on it.
John Harding:Matt, I'll, I'll, I'll give it a go with this next week or so.
John Harding:I've got some time off for half term.
John Harding:Yeah.
John Harding:And that's you.
John Harding:Low cook.
John Harding:You see, you've gotta give it plenty of time.
Matt Edmundson:Ah, very good.
Matt Edmundson:Well, if you are just joining us, we are not a cooking channel.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, we are in fact an online church.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, and as, as you did tend to do with church, uh, you tend to
Matt Edmundson:talk about food an awful lot.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, church tends to revolve around food.
Matt Edmundson:So, uh, yeah, we are an online church.
Matt Edmundson:Good to see you.
Matt Edmundson:Good that you are here.
Matt Edmundson:If you are, uh, up for it to say hi in the comments, if you're watching on the live,
Matt Edmundson:we're on Facebook, we are on YouTube.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, always nice to meet you in the comments.
Matt Edmundson:I'll be in there throughout the service.
Matt Edmundson:George is, uh, also in the comments.
Matt Edmundson:He's moderating, um, uh, he's moderating for crowd.
Matt Edmundson:So when it says that crowd church needs to try this, this
Matt Edmundson:is in fact George saying that.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, so, uh, yeah.
Matt Edmundson:And there's Matt Crew in the comments, so if you there say hi, be great to see.
Matt Edmundson:This week we have in fact, John, why don't you say who we've got this week.
John Harding:Well, we have got James Sloan, who is the CEO of Imagine If Trust,
John Harding:uh, charity based in Liverpool that are doing incredible transformative impact
John Harding:work, working with marginalized people, um, doing work as far as Congo, DRC.
John Harding:Uh, James is the real deal, is part of the, uh, senior leadership team
John Harding:at Frontline Church, a good friend.
John Harding:And, um, we are gonna really, really be blessed by James's
John Harding:thoughts as he shares today.
John Harding:I know that for sure.
Matt Edmundson:Yeah, absolutely James.
Matt Edmundson:What a legend he is.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, and then after James' talk, we're gonna have a time of worship where you
Matt Edmundson:can sing along and if you don't know the words, they'll be on the screen.
Matt Edmundson:You can sing along if you're able to do so.
Matt Edmundson:Or just think about the words as they come along.
Matt Edmundson:And then after that, John and I will be back for Conversation Street,
Matt Edmundson:where we will talk through your questions, um, and comments, Uh, and
Matt Edmundson:we will love it and we'll get into it.
Matt Edmundson:I'm very, very much looking forward to Conversation Street, John,
Matt Edmundson:cuz we always have a good time chatting about things I think.
John Harding:We certainly do lots to chat about.
John Harding:And, um, do, try and keep your mic muted when you are doing the singing.
John Harding:People might not realize Matt, um, base voice, but, um, you, you hear it
John Harding:on this screen, but fortunately mute setting, it doesn't go out publicly.
John Harding:So
Matt Edmundson:Yeah, I've not, I've not made that slip up yet where I've left
Matt Edmundson:my mic on, uh, whilst doing worship.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, Dion's in the comments.
Matt Edmundson:Dion.
Matt Edmundson:Hey, how you doing?
Matt Edmundson:I hope you are feeling at least a little bit better.
Matt Edmundson:Dion had covid bless her.
Matt Edmundson:Um, and so hopefully you're, you are recovering Dion.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, Sarah's in the comments.
Matt Edmundson:High Sarah?
Matt Edmundson:Uh, high double I on the high.
Matt Edmundson:So Hi . Yes.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, go.
Matt Edmundson:Great to see you in there.
Matt Edmundson:I do keep saying hi in the comments.
Matt Edmundson:It'd be great to see.
Matt Edmundson:, Right.
Matt Edmundson:So what we're gonna do now, uh, we will jump straight into James' talk, which,
Matt Edmundson:uh, John so masterfully, uh, introduced.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, and then we'll have the worship where I definitely will be muting my microphone.
Matt Edmundson:And then we'll be back for Coronation Street at Coronation Street.
Matt Edmundson:We're not gonna do Coronation Street, it's gonna be Conversation Street.
Matt Edmundson:Just so you know, um, uh, . I dunno why I said Coronation Street.
Matt Edmundson:That's really mental.
Matt Edmundson:Okay, so here's the talk . We'll be back after this.
Matt Edmundson:Oh, why is that button stop working every week?
Matt Edmundson:Here we go.
Matt Edmundson:Let's try it again.
James Sloan:Today we're continuing our journey through the series called Origin.
James Sloan:We're looking at the book of John, the last of the four gospels, and very much
James Sloan:unlike Matthew, Mark, and Luke, in the way it describes the life and events of Jesus.
James Sloan:So today we're in chapter seven.
James Sloan:And we see the identity of Jesus called into question.
James Sloan:And I wanna look at a couple of points of the chapter and see what
James Sloan:we can learn from it together, but not as an academic exercise.
James Sloan:You know, as Christians, we believe the Bible to be, to be God's word to us, Uh,
James Sloan:not just a text or a historic account.
James Sloan:In fact, Nicky Gumbel, uh, a well known, uh, pastor of a church in
James Sloan:London says, uh, the Bible is the only book who's author is always present
James Sloan:with you every time you read it.
James Sloan:So for me, every time I read the Bible, I look to reflect on what I feel God
James Sloan:might be saying to me through His word.
James Sloan:It helps me to grow my faith as I seek to, to share Jesus with those around me.
James Sloan:And this passage in John has loads that we can reflect on and learn
James Sloan:about in the person of Jesus.
James Sloan:So a Titled this short talk, who is Jesus to me?
James Sloan:For context, we pick up, uh, John's account as a debate.
James Sloan:Uh, rage is on about Jesus' testimony and his claims to be the son of God.
James Sloan:The people of Jerusalem.
James Sloan:Probably a small mob of devout Jews claim he cannot be the Christ
James Sloan:as they know where he's from.
James Sloan:This could be due to scriptures, um, from the Old Testament.
James Sloan:Um, in books like Malachi where it says that God's messenger will come suddenly
James Sloan:to the temple, it may have been a popular belief that Messiah would just appear
James Sloan:out of nowhere, almost as if he was waiting concealed, and someday were just
James Sloan:burst suddenly upon the world and no one would know where he had come from.
James Sloan:So let's look at Jesus' response to their accusations.
James Sloan:It says, Yes, you think you know me and where I'm from,
James Sloan:but that's not where I'm from.
James Sloan:My true origin is in the one who sent me.
James Sloan:And you don't know him at all.
James Sloan:I know that I come from him.
James Sloan:That's how I know him.
James Sloan:He sent me here.
James Sloan:That's the message translation of John 7:28.
James Sloan:They may have known Jesus came from Nazareth, but they didn't understand his
James Sloan:origin and his relationship to the Father.
James Sloan:If they knew God the Father, then they would know Christ
James Sloan:the Son as the two are one.
James Sloan:The crowd where perhaps confused about where the Messiah would come from, but
James Sloan:Jesus knew exactly where he came from.
James Sloan:His origin and his mission were from God.
James Sloan:I am from him and he sent me.
James Sloan:Now for me growing up, I heard a lot about Jesus and all the Bible stories,
James Sloan:but I didn't have any kind of sense of understanding what a relationship
James Sloan:with God looked or or even felt like.
James Sloan:It wasn't until later in life that I really felt the presence
James Sloan:of God and then all the stories and Bible verses made sense.
James Sloan:Cause it wasn't focused on following a religion, but living a life of faith.
James Sloan:Suddenly it felt like an adventure rather than a bunch of rules.
James Sloan:It was liberating.
James Sloan:It was life giving.
James Sloan:It was life shaping.
James Sloan:Recently I've been on a, on a parenting course, um, about raising
James Sloan:kids in, in church, and it talks about the difference between being
James Sloan:God smart and being God connected.
James Sloan:We can, we can teach our kids all the information from the Bible
James Sloan:and they can sing all the songs at church, but this doesn't mean
James Sloan:they'll feel connected to God.
James Sloan:It's a step of faith they had to take for themselves.
James Sloan:The crowds had seen and heard of his miracles, but they couldn't allow
James Sloan:themselves to believe that this carpenter from Nazareth was the Messiah, the one
James Sloan:they'd been waiting for, the one who could save them from Roman occupation,
James Sloan:and the one who could bring salvation.
James Sloan:They lacked faith.
James Sloan:Then it, it would appear in the passage that some time, um, passes
James Sloan:and then Jesus speaks on the last day of one of the Jewish feasts.
James Sloan:This would've gained serious attention as using the temple courts,
James Sloan:which was like, um, a busy area directly outside the temple itself.
James Sloan:Um, but also because it says that he stood up to speak.
James Sloan:Now, most teachers, rabbis, um, would've been, would've been sat down
James Sloan:when they taught from scriptures.
James Sloan:So in John verse 37, uh, John 7 37, Sorry.
James Sloan:It says, If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink.
James Sloan:He who believes in me, as the scripture said, out of his heart,
James Sloan:will flow rivers and living water.
James Sloan:But this, he spoke concerning the spirit whom those believing in him would receive
James Sloan:for the Holy Spirit was not yet given because Jesus was not yet glorified.
James Sloan:So, quick bit of religious context, the Feast of Tabernacles,
James Sloan:which lasted eight days.
James Sloan:All through the first seven days, water from this pool called the pool
James Sloan:of siloam, was carried in a, a golden pitcher and poured out the altar to
James Sloan:remind everyone of the water that God miraculously provided for a thirsty
James Sloan:Israelite people in the wilderness.
James Sloan:Jesus boldly called people to himself to drink and satisfy their deepest
James Sloan:thirst, their spiritual thirst.
James Sloan:This invitation was, was broad because it said if anyone from any
James Sloan:intelligent, race, gender, nationality, or political party, it's not limited.
James Sloan:However, the invitation was, was narrow because it said if anyone thirsts,
James Sloan:they must first see their need.
James Sloan:Thirst is not anything in itself.
James Sloan:It's a lack of something.
James Sloan:It's an emptiness, a crying need.
James Sloan:And Jesus is essentially saying to the crowd, there's no more
James Sloan:water at the temple, and in the rituals that you followed, I have
James Sloan:the water you're looking for.
James Sloan:To come to Jesus and to drink was essentially to put your faith in
James Sloan:him, to trust in, rely on and cling to Jesus for both time and eternity.
James Sloan:But Jesus didn't only speak of something coming into a person, but
James Sloan:something flowing out of them as well.
James Sloan:It was not only a, a blessing received, but, but a blessing
James Sloan:to others, a source of blessing.
James Sloan:And if you put your trust in Jesus and throwing him in your
James Sloan:life, in your heart, then life and abundance will flow out to others.
James Sloan:And this is where I find the joy of living as a Christian.
James Sloan:It's not a constant strive for self-improvement.
James Sloan:It's finding your place in God family and making your contribution
James Sloan:to serve those both with within, um, and outside of the church.
James Sloan:There's this passage I love in the book of Ezekiel, um, where it
James Sloan:talks about water flowing from the temple towards a, a dry desert land.
James Sloan:As it flows the water gets deeper and deeper, um, as it flows out towards
James Sloan:the sea and along the way you hear the, there are fresh fish in the water, the
James Sloan:fruit trees on its bank and everything it touches kind of springs into life.
James Sloan:And for me, that's a reminder of the potential of the church to bring life
James Sloan:into our communities as the people of God bless others through their
James Sloan:words and through their actions.
James Sloan:That's a church that I love and that I believe Jesus is coming back for.
James Sloan:Now after all these, um, accounts were given in John seven, we see
James Sloan:that there are a number of reactions and responses from the crowd.
James Sloan:Some say he was a prophet, some say he was the Christ, others
James Sloan:doubted and and wanted to kill him.
James Sloan:So what's your response to Jesus?
James Sloan:Have you put your trust in him?
James Sloan:Have you put your faith in him?
James Sloan:Are you God smart or God connected?
James Sloan:Maybe you're watching this and have never taken that step of faith as
James Sloan:it feels uncertain or or scary.
James Sloan:If that's the case, then I'd really encourage you to message a member
James Sloan:of the crowd team or reach out to your local church or me personally
James Sloan:since I made the decision to, to commit my life to following Jesus,
James Sloan:I've, I've never looked back.
James Sloan:It's given my life a sense of purpose.
James Sloan:It's given me a, a church family with whom I can journey through life with.
James Sloan:But it's also given me a sense of peace when the world is flipped upside down
James Sloan:like we've seen in previous years.
James Sloan:And it means I can trust in God, the one who never changes.
James Sloan:I'd love to share a little video with you, a lady called Anna.
James Sloan:Um, Anna came into our church building about eight years
James Sloan:ago, um, looking for help.
James Sloan:She was given food and connected with some volunteers from the church.
James Sloan:Uh, and fast forward to the present day, and she's now working with
James Sloan:the homeless, um, in Liverpool and leading a Polish church congregation.
James Sloan:You know, she, she encountered Jesus.
James Sloan:And since then, her life has been transformed and she's found her place
James Sloan:in, in a church family where she can serve and be a blessing to others,
James Sloan:just like we read in the passage today.
James Sloan:So I pray today that you would experience this living water of Jesus Christ in
James Sloan:your life and it would fill you to overflowing to bless those around you.
James Sloan:This is Anna's story.
Anna Dzugala:I was born in Poland when I spent 20 years of my life.
Anna Dzugala:I moved to England and I met my partner.
Anna Dzugala:Then when I was 20, I spent with him eight years, which were not
Anna Dzugala:very healthy at most of the times.
Anna Dzugala:I've got two children with him.
Anna Dzugala:During to arguments and different lifestyle, we separated and
Anna Dzugala:not very pleasant situation.
Anna Dzugala:I didn't know where to look for support.
Anna Dzugala:I've been given a voucher for food bank as I need some supplies
Anna Dzugala:for me and the children, and I ended up in Frontline Church.
Anna Dzugala:I walked through the door and I was greeted with the most kind smile
Anna Dzugala:and a welcoming presence of Estelle.
Anna Dzugala:Estelle spoken to me like nobody before about this fantastic and amazing
Anna Dzugala:person who loves me no matter what I've done and what I've been through.
Anna Dzugala:And she just told me that he wants me to be with him and that he will
Anna Dzugala:give me everything I need and care for me and that his name is Jesus.
Anna Dzugala:But the first nine months of social care help, we've been giving a place
Anna Dzugala:in domestic violence refuge, which was very good, but we didn't have any
Anna Dzugala:money as our claim didn't go through.
Anna Dzugala:So we need the support.
Anna Dzugala:It is very difficult to ask for food when you have nothing and to children,
Anna Dzugala:it's a very humbling experience.
Anna Dzugala:I didn't have to go through very painful roads because of people from frontline.
Anna Dzugala:They just, they just got the money together, brought food now and
Anna Dzugala:then treated me always with respect and dignity, and they always pray.
Anna Dzugala:I had.
Anna Dzugala:I had so many friends then, but the best feeling was that, that people pray for
Anna Dzugala:me that there is this Jesus, this amazing person who looks after me and my children,
Anna Dzugala:and that, that I don't have to be worried anymore because he will provide for every
Anna Dzugala:single thing that I need, and he did that when I was on my own and children asleep.
Anna Dzugala:I had nobody to turn into.
Anna Dzugala:Then on one Sunday when I came in, I was just greeted with this big family in here.
Anna Dzugala:Lots of people.
Anna Dzugala:Nobody asked who I am, where I'm from.
Anna Dzugala:They just accepted me how I am with my children, and they
Anna Dzugala:just love me for who I was.
Anna Dzugala:The community here allowed me to blossom, to feel good about myself, to put the
Anna Dzugala:past behind me and learn new things about what is amazing God, that is our father.
Anna Dzugala:I've managed to meet Ben with his community.
Anna Dzugala:That is Bible heritage.
Anna Dzugala:I've managed to explore even more about Bible and find out about Jesus
Anna Dzugala:and live by what he wanted me to live by, and that's amazing to know that
Anna Dzugala:she, for every single day, you blessed with a God present and you're doing
Anna Dzugala:everything best to please him, and he's gonna be happy for you no matter what.
Anna Dzugala:It was just the best thing I knew and I knew from that particular
Anna Dzugala:moment that there is nothing else I can give to my children.
Anna Dzugala:I'm not rich.
Anna Dzugala:I won't have many things to give to them, but I can show them God.
Anna Dzugala:I can introduce them to Jesus.
Anna Dzugala:If they manage to build that connection with God, then my job is done.
Anna Dzugala:I am.
Anna Dzugala:I am ticked my, My parenting has been proven to be good.
Anna Dzugala:Today I work in a Catholic school.
Anna Dzugala:I work in a primary school where Jesus is celebrity.
Anna Dzugala:He's celebrated every day with the prayer.
Anna Dzugala:The children know who he is.
Anna Dzugala:They can ask and speak freely about Jesus love to them and to others.
Anna Dzugala:The Catholic school allowed me to meet other people, to speak to
Anna Dzugala:other parents and use my talents to languages to translate and to just let
Anna Dzugala:everybody know how much God loves them.
Anna Dzugala:And it is amazing how just simple sentence make can make so
Anna Dzugala:much difference in people life.
Anna Dzugala:Just to know that you know what, I know it's difficult, but
Anna Dzugala:there is Jesus and he loves you.
Anna Dzugala:And that's put smile on people face.
Matt Edmundson:Okay.
Matt Edmundson:Only in you Jesus.
Matt Edmundson:I love that track by Greg and Martha.
Matt Edmundson:I, And you have to play it loud I think, for it to to make sense really.
John Harding:Yeah.
John Harding:Yeah.
John Harding:I could hear you singing from the garden.
Matt Edmundson:Yeah.
Matt Edmundson:But at least, it's on mute for everybody else.
Matt Edmundson:I was double checking and rechecking and doing all that kind of
Matt Edmundson:checking, but yes, so welcome back.
Matt Edmundson:So James, thank you for doing that talk.
Matt Edmundson:Anna, thank you for sharing your story.
Matt Edmundson:Love Anna.
Matt Edmundson:She is such an alleged, Anna's one of these people that when you
Matt Edmundson:meet her, you can never forget her because she just has this.
Matt Edmundson:aura of loveliness around her, doesn't she?
Matt Edmundson:Uh, and absolutely.
Matt Edmundson:She's just amazing.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, just amazing.
Matt Edmundson:So, um, thank you for sharing, uh, Dion's, put in the comments.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, you also have to harmonize and sing hashtag Sing With the Angels.
Matt Edmundson:Um, if you've just joined us, uh, John was maybe alluding to the fact
Matt Edmundson:that when I sing it's, it's not very musical before we went to the, uh,
Matt Edmundson:to the, to the talk, but that's okay.
Matt Edmundson:That's okay.
Matt Edmundson:So we're just carrying on that conversation
John Harding:Go from those to the Lord Matt.
Matt Edmundson:Yeah.
Matt Edmundson:Yeah.
Matt Edmundson:And it is a noise, bro.
John Harding:And I completely agree with you because, I mean, I just
John Harding:loved listening to James share and I loved listening to Anna Chshareer
John Harding:because I, I know them, and they're explaining effectively the source
John Harding:of their joy of their life that.
John Harding:The difference that they make in people's lives.
John Harding:They are great people to be around.
John Harding:James is great fun to be around.
John Harding:Anna just gives you a big hug and is making such a massive difference, uh, for,
John Harding:uh, particularly Polish, Polish and other people, Liverpool, homeless people, and
John Harding:they just really explain in some of the source of where that comes from in Jesus.
Matt Edmundson:Yeah, they were, and they did a great job, eh, And um, I
Matt Edmundson:and Anne is one of those people that I would love to dig into a story a
Matt Edmundson:lot more than just like a few minutes.
Matt Edmundson:Do you know what I mean?
Matt Edmundson:And, um, we have this new podcast, Shameless plug.
Matt Edmundson:We have this new podcast called What's the Story where we do
Matt Edmundson:deep dive into people's stories.
Matt Edmundson:We just launched one this week.
Matt Edmundson:The latest one is with Malcolm, Trish Morgan, um, talking about higher heights
Matt Edmundson:and deeper seas, which was a phenomenal, uh, conversation with those guys.
Matt Edmundson:And in fact, they, they contacted me the next day.
Matt Edmundson:They emailed me the next day saying, Oh, we've just been talking to somebody
Matt Edmundson:in Boise, Idaho who got a, you know, they heard, heard the podcast amazing.
Matt Edmundson:And they said, It's just great how the sort of the world
Matt Edmundson:shrunk for them a little bit.
Matt Edmundson:But yeah.
John Harding:And that's of course the name of Trish's book, which
John Harding:is just out, I read it last week.
John Harding:So encouraging.
John Harding:Yeah.
John Harding:It is just story after story of Trish and Malc's life and how
John Harding:they've just taken a risk, said yes to God and a very, That's yeah.
John Harding:Really encouraging book of it.
John Harding:It's not, you don't read it and think, Wow, Trish is amazing, even
John Harding:though they're amazing stories.
John Harding:You read it thinking God is amazing.
John Harding:Yeah.
John Harding:And wants to lead us into an adventure.
John Harding:So I, You can get it on Amazon um, I'd seen that recently.
John Harding:It's really worth a good recommend for half term.
Matt Edmundson:Yeah, it is a very, very good book.
Matt Edmundson:Can definitely check it out.
Matt Edmundson:Check out the podcast if you're not subscribed to what's the story?
Matt Edmundson:Do Check it out.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, where you do hear people's stories about how Jesus has actually transformed
Matt Edmundson:their lives, which is something I actually, John, you were talking
Matt Edmundson:about this morning, um, you know, this sort, this transformation effect
Matt Edmundson:of Christ that actually, um, we got a comment, uh, on YouTube from Gary.
Matt Edmundson:I wanna say, um, I, I noticed the other day, uh, who, who it was basically
Matt Edmundson:saying, you know, this, the whole Jesus thing was a big fairy tale and a big
Matt Edmundson:myth, but how do you actually know?
Matt Edmundson:And, um, I thought actually that tied in really well with what you were saying
Matt Edmundson:this morning that actually, you know, because Jesus transformed you, right?
Matt Edmundson:He, he just, that's what.
Matt Edmundson:. John Harding: Totally.
Matt Edmundson:That's the point, isn't it?
Matt Edmundson:There are lots of people who may go to churches and be religious that
Matt Edmundson:haven't had the encounter with Jesus.
Matt Edmundson:Mm.
Matt Edmundson:For sure.
Matt Edmundson:But when you've encountered Jesus, it changes your life.
Matt Edmundson:Mm-hmm.
Matt Edmundson:, uh, and that's what we're all about.
Matt Edmundson:And I know you've had that Matt.
Matt Edmundson:I've had that that's what we were saying before about James, about
Matt Edmundson:Anna and James did say that quote from Nicky Gumbel, God is present
Matt Edmundson:with you when you read the Bible.
Matt Edmundson:I am yet to find, um, somebody who's followed a fairy tale, whose life
Matt Edmundson:has been radically transformed.
Matt Edmundson:You know, it, it just doesn't happen.
Matt Edmundson:There is a power in this.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, and, and in this story that becomes a life transforming reality.
Matt Edmundson:And so effectively we read ourselves into the story, um, and same way when you read
Matt Edmundson:John's gospel, you see people encountering Jesus, having their lives transformed,
Matt Edmundson:all sorts of different types of people.
Matt Edmundson:And then you think, Well, could you do that for me Jesus?
Matt Edmundson:And that simple invitation.
Matt Edmundson:So yeah, that, that's, we are all about transformation.
Matt Edmundson:Um, and that came across so well in talk, I thought.
Matt Edmundson:Yeah.
Matt Edmundson:Dionne's put in here in the comments, you know, when you've
Matt Edmundson:met someone touched by Jesus.
Matt Edmundson:Fact.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, do you would you agree?
Matt Edmundson:I mean, you just put it in the comments, but Yeah.
John Harding:Undoubtedly, and the point is it's not a off thing, is it?
John Harding:No, that's the point.
John Harding:And I mean, are invited to encounter Jesus again and again.
John Harding:And I think it's in that place of encounter that we are
John Harding:more and more transformed for those who want a theological
John Harding:framework 2 Corinthians 3 18,19.
John Harding:As we gaze at Jesus, as we look into his face, we are
John Harding:transformed into his likeness.
John Harding:That's how transformation takes place for Christians.
John Harding:It's not religious rule keeping.
John Harding:It's not, it, it's not about that.
John Harding:It's about relationship.
John Harding:And so, um, yeah, there are times over the years where you meet people who've walked
John Harding:very closely with Jesus and are living in that place of encounter with Jesus.
John Harding:And they radiate peace and they radiate joy.
John Harding:And I think you said before about Anna, she radiates joy.
John Harding:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
John Harding:And she does sometimes I've gotta say, um, I like to pop into the Polish church or
John Harding:into the Iranian church because you gotta have Pastor John and everyone's like.
John Harding:Yeah.
John Harding:And, um, and that's what we're about and such.
John Harding:Sure.
John Harding:We have up days and down days, don't we?
John Harding:Mm.
John Harding:And uh, that we, we have the whole spectrum of human emotion, but actually,
John Harding:um, there is you, you know, when some one spends time with Jesus, uh,
John Harding:because it, it radiates from them.
Matt Edmundson:Yeah, you do.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, and like John said, you know, it, uh, fact, it is, and I, I totally agree.
Matt Edmundson:I to and I like you.
Matt Edmundson:I love going to see the, the guys at the Polish church, you know, you spoke there,
Matt Edmundson:I've spoke there, had such a great time, uh, with, with the group and just, they
Matt Edmundson:all, that's just the thing about church.
Matt Edmundson:So Miriam put here, um, that where's it gone?
Matt Edmundson:I go to church to encounter Jesus and to love others.
Matt Edmundson:That's what she wrote in the, in the comments.
Matt Edmundson:And I think actually that's a very, I love the simplicity of that.
Matt Edmundson:Why do you go to church?
Matt Edmundson:Well, I go to church to encounter Jesus first and foremost, right?
Matt Edmundson:To encounter God and I, and I know John, you wouldn't be sat where you are.
Matt Edmundson:And I wouldn't be sat where I am doing what we're doing on a Sunday night
Matt Edmundson:if that encounter had not been real.
John Harding:A hundred percent.
John Harding:And so the metaphor, the picture that James used from John seven today to
John Harding:give a reason for why he does his work with imagine if trust and, and
John Harding:he could earn a, he is a bright guy.
John Harding:Mm.
John Harding:You know, um, masters in psychology from Liverpool University.
John Harding:He could earn a lot more doing something else somewhere else.
John Harding:You know?
John Harding:Why is he doing what he's doing?
John Harding:Why are we doing what we're doing?
John Harding:Matt, you give a huge amount of voluntary time to run Crowd Church.
John Harding:You know, you must be mad, but it's, the picture that used
John Harding:is you drink living water.
John Harding:Yeah.
John Harding:Jesus is like living water.
John Harding:And as you get into his presence and as you receive that and you come and
John Harding:you're filled again and again, it's a bit like, I mean, I've got a glass here.
John Harding:It's like you start filling that glass, at some point something will happen.
John Harding:It'll start to overflow.
John Harding:Mm.
John Harding:It will start to pour out into the lives of others.
John Harding:And, and that's very much, um, what I heard from what James and
John Harding:Anna was saying, the reason why they're doing what they're doing.
John Harding:I would want, I would hope people would know.
John Harding:That's why I do what I'm doing.
John Harding:It's because when you receive Jesus, when you're transformed by
John Harding:him, it sort of overflows out into the life of others and refreshers
John Harding:others and has an impact on others.
John Harding:And again, put a whole bunch of people together like that.
John Harding:We'd call that a church.
John Harding:Yep.
John Harding:And that uses sort of link in Ezekiel and that water flowing out
John Harding:from the temple and bringing life and refreshing to all around them.
Matt Edmundson:Yeah.
Matt Edmundson:That's the great thing, isn't it?
Matt Edmundson:This, um, uh, about this, this whole Christian, one of the things
Matt Edmundson:that James touched on was this scripture from, uh, from John.
Matt Edmundson:Um, uh, you, you think, you know me, uh, was the statement that he read.
Matt Edmundson:And I thought this was a really interesting thing.
Matt Edmundson:So I quickly googled misconceptions about Jesus, common misconceptions
Matt Edmundson:people have about Jesus.
Matt Edmundson:Um, Before I go through what I've written down here, uh, what are some of
Matt Edmundson:the common misconceptions that you come across inside the church and outside
Matt Edmundson:the church that people have about Jesus?
John Harding:Yeah, good question.
John Harding:I mean, it instantly makes me think of, um, that, um, that will feral
John Harding:film where the, um, the of Ricky Bobby don't watch it, it's not
John Harding:appropriate, but the like, like the saying grace around the dinner table.
John Harding:And one of the kids goes, You know, I like to think Jesus is like
John Harding:ninja and I like to think of Jesus.
John Harding:One of 'em goes, Dear, dear, dear, little nine pounds, six sounds, baby Jesus.
John Harding:So cute.
John Harding:It's like, um, it's all well and good being like, Well, I think of Jesus like
John Harding:this, or I think of Jesus like that.
John Harding:I mean, let's look at the gospels and let's look at who Jesus really,
John Harding:uh was and who he claimed to be.
John Harding:And he is undoubtedly, consistently.
John Harding:Um, uh, revealing that he is unique and God, but, um, that,
John Harding:that's the point, isn't it?
John Harding:Generally people are that there is no academic historical
John Harding:doubt that Jesus existed.
John Harding:Mm.
John Harding:That is not the same for other religious leaders.
John Harding:Um, historical religion founders, which we won't go into.
John Harding:Uh, but there's no academic doubt that Jesus existed.
John Harding:Um, so people wanna say, Well, Jesus was some sort of, um, rabbi
John Harding:guru type of person, a teacher.
John Harding:Um, some people might even say, um, a prophet.
John Harding:Um, and really Jesus leaves no space for that.
John Harding:And CS Lewis, the author of, uh, the Chronicles of Narnia wrote far more about,
John Harding:um, Jesus and his life than anything else.
John Harding:And I think he talks about madman, liar.
John Harding:Lunatic.
John Harding:Yeah.
John Harding:They are your three options.
John Harding:Either Jesus is the son of God.
John Harding:Unique God in human form, or he is a mad man, a liar or a lunatic.
John Harding:I think he says he unequivalent of someone who claims to be a poached
John Harding:egg, I think is the exact quote.
John Harding:Don't, don't quote me, you know, Jesus left.
John Harding:Generally that is what people, they, Oh, you know, you know, we, we have
John Harding:like the nice inoffensive baby Jesus.
John Harding:We can cope with that cause we get Christmas presents or we like the
John Harding:Jesus that says nice things like love your neighbor and, um, turn
John Harding:the other cheek, Jesus, the guru.
John Harding:But actually Jesus, in this passage that James read was polarizing
John Harding:people you either humble yourself and that knowledge that he is Messiah.
John Harding:James used that word, The Christ, the long awaited promised Savior God
John Harding:in human form on earth to saver us.
John Harding:You've gotta humble yourself.
John Harding:You've gotta, you've gotta say, I might not be right.
John Harding:I might not be king of my life.
John Harding:Um, and, and that, that takes humility.
John Harding:It takes revelation actually.
John Harding:Yeah.
John Harding:Um, you've, you've gotta do that.
John Harding:Or people will write, write him off, but you can't write him off because
John Harding:2000 years later, look at his impact.
John Harding:Yeah.
John Harding:In the world.
John Harding:He's still changing lives.
John Harding:He's still transforming people.
John Harding:He's still doing everything.
John Harding:He said that he said it would, You know, I just think Matthew 28, he
John Harding:said that he would never leave you.
John Harding:And I know for a fact, Matt, that you and I have experienced that.
John Harding:Yeah.
John Harding:When we received Jesus, we have known his presence with us.
John Harding:And I'm sure the folks watching that know Jesus will have had a similar experience.
John Harding:He's true to his promises.
John Harding:Yes.
John Harding:So, sorry for getting a little bit excited now.
John Harding:No, you crack on.
John Harding:my favorite topic.
Matt Edmundson:No, I think, I think it's totally true though.
Matt Edmundson:I, I wrote down some stats here from Barna Research.
Matt Edmundson:Right.
Matt Edmundson:Which I know you've come across before.
Matt Edmundson:Mm.
Matt Edmundson:So 29% of people surveyed think that Jesus is a prophet.
Matt Edmundson:Um, 22% feel like he's, uh, said that he was a myth or a fictional character.
Matt Edmundson:Um, and this was, I mean, let's get, get onto that myth that's deepen because
Matt Edmundson:obviously all the historical evidence that we've got, he wasn't a myth.
Matt Edmundson:We actually know that he did come and live.
John Harding:Josephus Tacitus, for example.
John Harding:The writing about Jesus outside of, outside of the Gospels is massive.
John Harding:You can't get away from it.
John Harding:Yeah.
John Harding:You know, people, people writing historically to say, um, he, he was
John Harding:a man who claimed to work miracles.
John Harding:Do you know what I mean?
John Harding:That sort of claims of God, um, that you can't get away from
John Harding:the historical figure of Jesus.
John Harding:Yeah.
John Harding:There's more historical evidence for Jesus than Julius.
Matt Edmundson:That's one of my favorite quotes actually.
Matt Edmundson:I think that was quite fun.
Matt Edmundson:Um, and in fact, Jesus makes reference to Caesar.
Matt Edmundson:So, uh, do you know what I mean?
Matt Edmundson:, But it's, um, so yeah, you got 22% think he's a myth or a fictional
Matt Edmundson:character and 9% don't know who he is.
Matt Edmundson:29% think he's a prophet.
Matt Edmundson:And I just wanna come, I wanna circle back to this point,
Matt Edmundson:because you mentioned CS Lewis.
Matt Edmundson:You either accept that Jesus is a son of God, or he is a madman or a liar.
Matt Edmundson:Why did CS Lewis say that?
Matt Edmundson:And why do we in the church put that out there as something actually think about
Matt Edmundson:this guys, Because, you know, if Jesus, Jesus wasn't a nice guy, he was either the
Matt Edmundson:son of God or he was a complete lunatic, why, why do we give that polarization?
John Harding:Well, some of the things get lost in two, the
John Harding:year 2000 and um, 22 in English.
John Harding:Some of the things that Jesus is saying.
John Harding:That clearly, really angered the religious Jewish leaders of the day
John Harding:Get lost a little bit in translation.
John Harding:Uh, Jesus is clearly to claiming to be God in at numerous times.
John Harding:I mean, we're going through John's gospel, the seven I am sayings.
John Harding:He's claiming to forgive sins, and that's really important because
John Harding:who on earth can forgive sins apart from God and wipe that slate clean?
John Harding:Um, he's claiming that if you believe in him, and we get onto this in John's
John Harding:gospel, I'm the resurrection of the life.
John Harding:He's claiming that if you believe in him, even though you die, you'll be raised to
John Harding:new life and spent eternity in heaven.
John Harding:These, these are claims that if a person makes, you'd say they're
John Harding:mad unless they can back them up.
John Harding:That particular one, he backs up both by raising Lazarus from the dead and
John Harding:also through his own resurrection.
John Harding:Everything in Christianity hinges on the resurrection, the
John Harding:death and resurrection of Jesus.
John Harding:And so, um, that's why, yeah, he was a prophet, but more than a
John Harding:prophet, he was a sinless savior.
John Harding:And, um, that's why he, he claim the claims he make.
John Harding:You have to say he was either absolute nonsense or of utter first significance
John Harding:for all people, for all time.
Matt Edmundson:Yeah, totally agree.
Matt Edmundson:And that's why I think when you, when you understand about Jesus, when you
Matt Edmundson:learn about Christ, you are faced with this point where you go either what he
Matt Edmundson:said is true or the man is a lunatic and he can't be something in the mi,
Matt Edmundson:he can't be a nice guy in the middle, a holy guy because a nice guy, a holy guy
Matt Edmundson:wouldn't make the claims that he did.
Matt Edmundson:He was either completely lying and therefore totally untrustworthy
Matt Edmundson:or what he said was true.
Matt Edmundson:And you kind of have to get your, get your head around that.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, d I'm right here in the comment.
Matt Edmundson:My Jesus, uh, in fact, I can add this.
Matt Edmundson:Let me do this.
Matt Edmundson:I think we have the technology.
Matt Edmundson:Yes.
Matt Edmundson:My Jesus flipped tables and wash dirty feet.
Matt Edmundson:He, he, uh, and, and, and that's the interesting thing about Jesus, isn't it?
Matt Edmundson:He's, he does flip the tables and he does wash people's feet.
John Harding:Well, I mean, it's interesting that when Jesus flips the
John Harding:tables, he says, Because my house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.
John Harding:Yeah.
John Harding:Is just called the temple, where historically the presence of God
John Harding:on earth dwell is called my house.
John Harding:Yeah.
John Harding:So that's just, it's literally on every page.
John Harding:Yeah, you can, We got in human form and of course the point was in the Old Testament,
John Harding:hundreds of years before God promised a time when he would come in human form.
John Harding:Mm-hmm.
John Harding:, it'd be Immanuel.
John Harding:God with us.
John Harding:So, yeah.
John Harding:Um, and, and, and, and he had the confidence to serve.
John Harding:And I think that's the point.
John Harding:When you encounter Jesus, you get the confidence to serve when you know that you
John Harding:are so loved by him and so transformed by him that you, you can do the, the things
John Harding:that he did because you're not looking for status or recognition or fame or fortune.
John Harding:You only want him to be famous.
John Harding:And um, and that's what Jesus says when he washed the dirty feet.
John Harding:He said, Uh, now that I have done that, that's what you should do to others.
Matt Edmundson:It was the greatest, uh, lesson in leadership, wasn't it?
Matt Edmundson:This washing of the dirty feet.
Matt Edmundson:It was just unbelievable, uh, that, that whole side of things.
Matt Edmundson:Now John, we have used this word transformed quite a lot, right?
Matt Edmundson:That Jesus transforms us.
Matt Edmundson:Um, and I just wanna take a step back here.
Matt Edmundson:And ask the question, and let's dig into it a little bit.
Matt Edmundson:If you are not yet a Christ follower, if you are outside the church or
Matt Edmundson:if you, you're kind of new to the Christian message, what does that mean?
Matt Edmundson:How does God, Transform us?
Matt Edmundson:Yeah.
Matt Edmundson:Well
John Harding:I think there's two ways of answering it.
John Harding:First, and we mainly major this, so far it's, it's just an observational thing.
John Harding:You, you were in the service I was in and speaking it this morning.
John Harding:I was saying when I look over my shoulder over my life, over the past
John Harding:10, 20 years, I can see that God has been working my life changing
John Harding:me, making me more like Jesus.
John Harding:Um, I can say that confidently because it's the Holy Spirit's work, not my work.
John Harding:I've just cooperated and surrendered to what the Spirit wants to do,
John Harding:and I've got a long way to go.
John Harding:Um, so, so let me give you some concrete examples of that.
John Harding:there are things that were fears for me.
John Harding:Yeah.
John Harding:And as I brought those to Jesus and asked for his help, he's helped me
John Harding:to overcome those fears, things that would trouble me and make me anxious.
John Harding:And as I've brought them to him, because he promises that, um, he
John Harding:will bear our burdens and that he will fill us with his peace.
John Harding:And so, so every morning I come to and say, Jesus, you are the prince of peace.
John Harding:Um, I ask you to fill my life of your peace.
John Harding:You promise to fill my heart and in mind with peace.
John Harding:And, and so my life is more characterized by his peace
John Harding:than, um, it, it, it was before.
John Harding:And I'm growing in more and more of that.
John Harding:And I think this, that has true so many areas of our life.
John Harding:Mm.
John Harding:Um, it's not just making us better people, it's things like, um.
John Harding:I know there are things that I've done in the past that I'm ashamed about, but as
John Harding:I've brought them to God, I've experienced his forgiveness and I've experienced
John Harding:his cleansing, and I've experienced him freeing me from that shame and that
John Harding:guilt and that sense of, of condemnation.
John Harding:That's what we mean by transformation.
John Harding:Mm.
John Harding:That's what we mean.
John Harding:Uh, I've gone from being a very, very self-centered, egotistical
John Harding:person to a less self centered, less egotistical person.
John Harding:And the Lord is, um, doing a, work in my life.
John Harding:Let me give you a really vulnerable, um, example.
John Harding:Um, this morning I was up at seven to do my morning devotions as I always
John Harding:do, and I've been a little bit tired.
John Harding:I've had huge amounts of additional stuff on.
John Harding:I felt I had no energy and no life.
John Harding:And I was like just listening a bit like you had that song from Greg and Martha.
John Harding:Before I was listening to worship music, I was just saying, Jesus,
John Harding:you are promised to be my strength.
John Harding:You are promised to strengthen me when I am weak.
John Harding:And I, if I'm honest, I was a little bit tearful.
John Harding:I was like, Jesus, I feel I've got nothing to give.
John Harding:Hmm, I've got nothing to give.
John Harding:And I spent, you know, a bit of time, I'm a pastor, so I I, you would expect
John Harding:me to be able to prioritize that time.
John Harding:Not, not all church leaders do.
John Harding:It's so important to do that.
John Harding:Just to just, again, like James Sloan said, just to Dr.
John Harding:Imagine it just to drink that water, just to receive.
John Harding:And I felt by the time I'd left the house, it house, in fact I took a
John Harding:little bit of bread and wine just to have communion with the Lord.
John Harding:I felt that's what he said to do and I just felt I received from him.
John Harding:And I was strengthened by him and I was able to then go out as a church leader
John Harding:and be involved in the church service and hopefully bless lots of people
John Harding:and encourage lots of people, not in my own strength, but in his strength.
John Harding:So that would be perhaps a more concrete example of this invitation
John Harding:to be transformed, uh, that the Holy Spirit wants to do in our lives.
Matt Edmundson:Yeah.
Matt Edmundson:That's brilliant.
Matt Edmundson:And that's, I mean, like you say, that's a real concrete one, isn't it?
Matt Edmundson:And there are times when, um, I will have the same story, you know, where you don't
Matt Edmundson:feel like you've got anything to give, but God, God usually does something right,
Matt Edmundson:And he brings that transformation.
Matt Edmundson:So I think there's transformation in many different ways, isn't there?
Matt Edmundson:There's transformation where he transforms our character, he trans
Matt Edmundson:and, and as a result, our habits change, our thought patterns change.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, you know, he, he transforms our thinking.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, you know, the Bible talks about that, doesn't it, in Romans 12,
Matt Edmundson:about getting your mind transformed.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, and that normally happens for me when I read the Bible, or, you know, listening
Matt Edmundson:to great sermons by your good self ofs.
Matt Edmundson:Um, but it's that, and, and that brings that sort of, and like you
Matt Edmundson:say, you look back over years and go, Man, God, I I was not easy.
Matt Edmundson:I'm still not, but cheap as, man, that's amazing, you know, what's gone on there?
Matt Edmundson:And then like, there's the, the, the more instant transformation.
Matt Edmundson:So you've, uh, feeling empty this morning.
Matt Edmundson:We've known people, um, instantly get healed.
Matt Edmundson:We've known people actually not get instantly healed, but we know
Matt Edmundson:a lot of people that have done.
Matt Edmundson:Um, and there's that, that transformation there isn't there where it's sort of
Matt Edmundson:where God just sort of gets involved.
Matt Edmundson:So how do we, I mean, you talked, I suppose there's a clue
Matt Edmundson:in what you've already said.
Matt Edmundson:If I think it through John, you know, when you're talking about how this
Matt Edmundson:morning you were just praying, you're doing your daily devotionals, is it
Matt Edmundson:as simple as, as that to experience this transformation, uh, of, of God?
John Harding:I mean, I'm really, So we wrote a book, didn't I?
John Harding:Called reflex.
John Harding:You did try.
John Harding:I just wanna do that every time you book titles mentioned.
John Harding:Indeed.
John Harding:Yeah.
John Harding:Um, and I try to unpack this dynamic of transformation with
John Harding:the Christian in detail because we rarely unpack the mechanism of.
John Harding:One of the things I say in the book is that, um, for the Christian
John Harding:transformation is a not automatic.
John Harding:Mm.
John Harding:It doesn't happen from being passive.
John Harding:If it did, the world would be full of transformed world changing Christians.
John Harding:Um, you've gotta engage in the process.
John Harding:Um, and so the way I talk about it a bit like a reflex, um, input
John Harding:stimulus and outcome response.
John Harding:So I'd say if I poke you in the eye, you blink, you don't think about it.
John Harding:It's automatic.
John Harding:If the got to use on those hammers and taps you on the knee with
John Harding:one of those a reflex hammers, your knee swings if you're alive.
John Harding:So it's about getting the right inputs.
John Harding:That's why the passage from John seven works so well for this.
John Harding:Yeah, it's the right.
John Harding:You've gotta, you've gotta drink it in to use the particular metaphor
John Harding:that's used in today's passage.
John Harding:So I would say, um, it's about encountering Jesus.
John Harding:Um, we encountering through his word, just reading his word daily, not again
John Harding:academically like James said, but reading it to really see Jesus and gaze
John Harding:at Jesus and asking him, Jesus, what are you wanting to say to me today?
John Harding:Uh, how you revealing yourself to me today?
John Harding:Prayer.
John Harding:Just talking to Jesus in more recent years, listening to Jesus.
John Harding:So I've really tried to build the habit of, um, and discipline of silence and
John Harding:just sitting in silence, um, for extended periods to hear Jesus speak to me.
John Harding:Um, and again, it's not an audible voice, it's just that
John Harding:sense of his spirit within me.
John Harding:Um, worship.
John Harding:But I think that, Community, whatever sense online or in person meeting with
John Harding:others and accountability in that as well.
John Harding:So, um, I, I would say if you wanted to experience radical transformation as
John Harding:a Christian, probably one of the most significant things you could do today
John Harding:is find a couple of other Christians that you trust that you can be open
John Harding:with, that you can be vulnerable with.
John Harding:Yeah.
John Harding:That you can talk challenges with.
John Harding:You can pray together.
John Harding:We were in a group, were we for years?
John Harding:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
John Harding:We were, but we were very honest with each other confidentially about our
John Harding:challenges, our struggles in life.
John Harding:That was transformational.
John Harding:Yeah.
John Harding:It was over and it was a drip feed effect, wasn't it?
John Harding:It wasn't like a, an instant thing.
John Harding:It's like you look back over a six or seven year period, you're like, Wow,
John Harding:Matt, God has done something in my life.
Matt Edmundson:Yeah.
Matt Edmundson:So one of the things that James said that I, I think we should
Matt Edmundson:probably just, um, touch on real quick cause I'm aware of time.
Matt Edmundson:He talked about how this is not self-improvement, it's
Matt Edmundson:not like the self-help thing.
Matt Edmundson:This is, this is not what you're talking about.
Matt Edmundson:Is it, It's not that kind of, you know, self-help rah rah kind of transformation.
Matt Edmundson:Yeah,
John Harding:yeah.
John Harding:I mean, we, we, we call the message of Jesus good news.
John Harding:Mm-hmm.
John Harding:, which is, you know, the word gospel comes from the word good
John Harding:news as opposed to good advice.
John Harding:And that is the point, isn't it?
John Harding:Mm-hmm.
John Harding:and, you know, the, the Christian life will help you and impact your
John Harding:life in all sorts of remarkable ways.
John Harding:But fundamentally, um, it, it starts like this.
John Harding:It starts with the message that God deeply loves you, God deeply
John Harding:desires relationship with you.
John Harding:Um, all of us have done wrong things, all of us.
John Harding:Sinned to use that old fashioned word.
John Harding:You know, Um, all of us have fallen short of God's standards and um, and so
John Harding:God comes into our world and he becomes like us and takes on flesh and blood and
John Harding:human fog over that flesh and blood can be broken and poured out on the cross so
John Harding:that all of your sin and all of my sin and all of your shame, and all of my shame,
John Harding:and all of our brokenness and all of our condemnation and all of our guilt and
John Harding:all of our sickness is placed on Jesus.
John Harding:On the cross is a substitute, is is a sacrificial lamb for us.
John Harding:The lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world and we
John Harding:get his life and his freedom.
John Harding:And so really it's not about good advice or about self-help, it's about recognizing
John Harding:our deep, profound need for Jesus.
John Harding:Yeah.
John Harding:And his forgiveness and asking for that.
John Harding:And he comes and he cleanses us, and he makes his home in our hearts.
John Harding:That is the Christian message.
John Harding:Mm-hmm.
John Harding:, that is the good news, that we can be forgiven and set free in our
John Harding:relationship with Jesus restored.
John Harding:So we have good news people and we want the world to know that.
Matt Edmundson:That's such a good saying.
Matt Edmundson:And I, I've, I mean the, it's, it's funny isn't it?
Matt Edmundson:You know, the visualizing your goals and saying it out loud every day and you know,
Matt Edmundson:tell the universe that's what you want.
Matt Edmundson:This is the, the Christian message, The power of it doesn't come from
Matt Edmundson:you, it comes from him and it comes from Christ in you, you know.
Matt Edmundson:The God of the universe that lives inside you, which is still one of the most
Matt Edmundson:miraculous things I've got to drink.
Matt Edmundson:Get my head around every day.
Matt Edmundson:Right.
Matt Edmundson:That he makes his home in us.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, in fact, I wrote that in my notes earlier, John, as you were talking, I just
Matt Edmundson:wrote, he makes our home in us brackets and once he moves in, he likes to give
Matt Edmundson:it a bit of a clean closed brackets.
John Harding:He does, he does.
John Harding:Yeah.
John Harding:That's the point.
John Harding:Yeah.
John Harding:We belong to him and he belongs to us.
Matt Edmundson:Yeah.
Matt Edmundson:Yeah, that's totally true.
Matt Edmundson:So it's not self-help.
Matt Edmundson:This is not you trying to do something in your own strength.
Matt Edmundson:This is, this is, uh, the gospel.
Matt Edmundson:One last thing, John, Uh, totally a lit a little bit off piece, but related
Matt Edmundson:to what Anna said, and Dion actually put this, I've marked it down here.
Matt Edmundson:Um, so Anna starts off her story by talking about how she went to
Matt Edmundson:food bank and met Estelle, right?
Matt Edmundson:Who is also one of God's choice people.
Matt Edmundson:Right.
Matt Edmundson:She is just such a lovely, lovely lady.
Matt Edmundson:Yes.
Matt Edmundson:And so Dionne wrote here, always good to hear about the power of a good welcome.
Matt Edmundson:Yeah.
Matt Edmundson:And there's, there's something quite magical about that, isn't there?
Matt Edmundson:I mean, you've seen it in church and I've seen it in church.
Matt Edmundson:It actually, the, the welcome that you get when you, when you go into church, I think
Matt Edmundson:can often make or break what you, how you feel about that whole thing, right?
Matt Edmundson:Yeah.
Matt Edmundson:Um, and I just want any thoughts on that?
Matt Edmundson:Cause I just, we've been talking about you.
Matt Edmundson:I just thought I'd, I'd mention that.
Matt Edmundson:Cause I thought it's such a good point.
John Harding:Well, let me just say, first of all, um, I'm sat looking at a computer
John Harding:screen with a camera in front of me.
John Harding:I can see a few comments coming up.
John Harding:There's some names on those.
John Harding:Some names I don't know.
John Harding:I mean, thank you for joining us.
John Harding:Yeah.
John Harding:I mean, we, we are so blessed that you have joined us and given some of your
John Harding:time and I hope it really blesses you.
John Harding:And I hope you, you connect in.
John Harding:So whatever I can say to welcome.
John Harding:You guys, um, welcome.
John Harding:It's just brilliant having you.
John Harding:Part of what's going on here and being part of it.
John Harding:I, I remember I went to a church in, um, in, in Singapore a number
John Harding:of years ago, and, um, I was a little bit tired and weary in
John Harding:life and we were welcomed so well.
John Harding:Mm.
John Harding:We were made to feel so special that it was like, like
John Harding:the best bit of the service.
John Harding:Mm.
John Harding:It was like, it was, it was in itself almost like transformational, you know,
John Harding:it's, um, xenophobia xenophilia, the, um, the, the sort of love of the stranger.
John Harding:It's just to sort of make people feel like they're part of the family.
John Harding:And I just think that's so much what Jesus is doing in the gospels.
John Harding:Jesus is there's the push and the pull of Jesus for those who think they know
John Harding:best, the arrogant, the religious, and the, there is a push, there's a challenge.
John Harding:But for the who, whoevers for the lonely, for the outcasts, for
John Harding:the isolated, for the excluded, there is a welcome from Jesus.
John Harding:Yeah.
John Harding:And uh, I suppose this is representatives on earth, his followers, we need to
John Harding:get much more better, uh, welcoming and receiving people like, like Jesus
John Harding:did because he was the master of it.
Matt Edmundson:Yeah, I totally agree.
Matt Edmundson:And it goes without saying, Regardless of who you are or where you are,
Matt Edmundson:what you believe or what you don't believe, you're always welcome.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, always.
Matt Edmundson:Welcome at Crowd.
Matt Edmundson:Always welcome at Frontline here in Liverpool.
Matt Edmundson:If you're in the city, we would love to see you.
Matt Edmundson:We would love to meet you , uh, it's, um, yeah, it's one of those big
Matt Edmundson:challenges, like you say, to always be kind of that welcoming, isn't it?
Matt Edmundson:Oh, brilliant.
Matt Edmundson:So, John, let me just, uh, bring up this comment here cuz Matt Crew, who
Matt Edmundson:always reminds me of the things that I should or shouldn't say, uh, bless him.
Matt Edmundson:He's put here in the comments.
Matt Edmundson:Um, where's it gone here?
Matt Edmundson:Don't forget everyone, the clocks change.
Matt Edmundson:In fact, let me put it on, uh, the clocks change.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, next Sunday morning.
Matt Edmundson:Join us at six pm GMT next Sunday.
Matt Edmundson:Matt Edmundson announces this at the end of the live stream.
Matt Edmundson:So, thank you, uh, Matt for that public service announcement announcement there.
Matt Edmundson:John, we get another hour in bed, don't we?
Matt Edmundson:Uh, is that We do, don't we?
Matt Edmundson:We get another hour in bed next weekend, which is, uh, which is i, I have to be
Matt Edmundson:honest, I just think they need to get rid of this clock changing nonsense.
Matt Edmundson:But, you know, I don't wanna get too political here on Crowd Church, but come
Matt Edmundson:on, government, uh, you know, fix it.
Matt Edmundson:We don't need it.
John Harding:Even changing your way happens on my birthday weekend.
John Harding:So for as long as I can remember, I've had a a a, I've lost an hour.
John Harding:I've had to get up, like we've lost an hour on my birthday and birthday weekend.
Matt Edmundson:Oh, that's not a good, that's not a good
Matt Edmundson:association to have, is it really Just you need to get rid of that.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, so yes, let's petition, uh, the new, whoever they are, whoever comes in power.
Matt Edmundson:God bless you.
Matt Edmundson:Um, I saw, actually, can we get a little bit political?
Matt Edmundson:I saw.
Matt Edmundson:Justin Wellby wrote on Twitter that he had been praying for Liz Truss
Matt Edmundson:after she resigned, uh, and said, uh, you know, regardless of political
Matt Edmundson:opinion, you've been a public servant.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, thank you for your service and, um, praying for you.
Matt Edmundson:Well, the backlash, um, from people over that level.
Matt Edmundson:What about praying for the poor?
Matt Edmundson:What about this?
Matt Edmundson:What about that?
Matt Edmundson:And I'm like, Yeah, I don't think that means Justin's not doing that.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, no, You know, I, I think it's all in there.
Matt Edmundson:Um, so regardless of your political stance, do be praying for England.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, at the moment in this political climate, which we now face ourselves,
John Harding:uh, we, I'm gonna say that, and I know you and I agree on
John Harding:this from over the years, but if you're a follower of Jesus, let's not use
John Harding:social media to say things that are rude and offensive and argumentative
John Harding:and disrespectful, that undermine our witness to the world, uh, about people.
John Harding:Because whatever you think of that person or that from that political party
John Harding:or whatever, God loves them deeply.
John Harding:Mm-hmm.
John Harding:and God longs to bring his grace and his mercy to them.
John Harding:They're just a broken human, just like you and I, who needs
John Harding:God's love and God's grace.
John Harding:So yeah, let's love them.
Matt Edmundson:Let's pray for them that could not have said that better myself.
Matt Edmundson:Absolutely.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, let's do that.
Matt Edmundson:And actually, um, I often think when I read some of those social media comments
Matt Edmundson:by Christians, um, it undermines their, it, it undermines the wrong phrase.
Matt Edmundson:It shows me that their faith is in the government rather than in the God of
Matt Edmundson:the government, if that makes sense.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, and um, I think it's just in times like this, we don't have to be afraid.
Matt Edmundson:We don't have to panic cuz Jesus is still on the throne.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, and he's still,
John Harding:whose life has been transformed by Jesus.
John Harding:Because when you realize how real he is in your life, it gives you a
John Harding:confidence when all the energy bills are going up and when, who knows who's
John Harding:gonna be in government for how long and who knows what Russia's gonna do.
John Harding:And yeah.
John Harding:Our confidence is not in any of those things.
John Harding:Mm-hmm.
John Harding:, It's in the living relationship that we have withJjesus.
Matt Edmundson:Yeah, totally.
Matt Edmundson:Totally.
Matt Edmundson:And that's the hope we have one of the many, uh, uh, that we can hold
Matt Edmundson:onto in this political crazy time.
Matt Edmundson:Yes, I'm keen.
Matt Edmundson:Yes, I'm interested.
Matt Edmundson:Yes, I care.
Matt Edmundson:But fundamentally my hope is built on him.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, and he's the anchor of my soul.
Matt Edmundson:So, uh, we can trust in that.
Matt Edmundson:But obviously, You know, pray for our government and, um, and our leaders at
Matt Edmundson:this time, and that Gods will be done in terms of, you know, what happens next.
Matt Edmundson:Really?
Matt Edmundson:England needs a little bit of, uh, That's very true.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, Dion, I'm just, sorry.
Matt Edmundson:Glance over at YouTube.
Matt Edmundson:Neither trust nor Boris nor Richie, I suppose, uh, nor Penny Morton
Matt Edmundson:or any of the other consent to contends, uh, have the power to
Matt Edmundson:stop the plans or power of Jesus.
Matt Edmundson:Amen.
Matt Edmundson:Very true.
Matt Edmundson:John, thank you so much for joining us, buddy.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, it's been great to see you, uh, always love hosting with you.
Matt Edmundson:Always love conversation street.
Matt Edmundson:Yeah.
Matt Edmundson:I always love throwing you the tricky questions.
Matt Edmundson:Cause you, you quite happily answer them.
Matt Edmundson:If you ask some other people, they tend to throw 'em back at you.
Matt Edmundson:And I'm just like, No, no.
Matt Edmundson:I'm just gonna give to on these.
Matt Edmundson:That's fine.
John Harding:I didn't even know that was an option.
John Harding:Next time,
Matt Edmundson:it's for you mate.
Matt Edmundson:It's not.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, next week we have Esther Richards speaking, talk about transformation.
Matt Edmundson:Esther has a phenomenal story, which is on the What's the Story podcast, how God
Matt Edmundson:brought her through insane depression, um, and almost on the verge of suicide.
Matt Edmundson:And if you want to hear that story, it's on What's the Story.
Matt Edmundson:It's the very first one.
Matt Edmundson:Anna Kettle and Dan Orange will be hosting.
Matt Edmundson:I'll be back in a couple of weeks with Phil Watson, uh,
Matt Edmundson:which will just be hysterical.
Matt Edmundson:Um, just the way it's gonna be, uh, but brilliant at the
Matt Edmundson:same time cuz that's just Phil.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, so we are gonna end Crowd Church right there.
Matt Edmundson:Do, come join us next week, 6:00 PM if you would like to join in our weekly, uh, Live
Matt Edmundson:Weekly Life is not a weekly, uh, midweek prayer meeting is what I'm trying to say.
Matt Edmundson:If you'd like to come join us on Zoom midweek in our community group slash
Matt Edmundson:prayer meeting slash get together slash whatever's gonna happen happens.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, we would love to see you.
Matt Edmundson:Just get in touch with us.
Matt Edmundson:We will send you the details for that.
Matt Edmundson:It was great.
Matt Edmundson:Miriam joined us this week, so, uh, great to see Miriam.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, thank you so much, uh, as John said for joining us.
Matt Edmundson:Thanks for giving up your time and joining the comment.
Matt Edmundson:It's good to see so many people in the comments.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, so Sarah, uh, no worries, thanks.
Matt Edmundson:She says, thanks for such a great stream.
Matt Edmundson:Um, Matt Crew says, Thanks to the Ancient ones for hosting tonight.
Matt Edmundson:I think he's talking about you, John.
Matt Edmundson:Brilliant.
Matt Edmundson:God bless you.
Matt Edmundson:Everyone.
Matt Edmundson:Have a fantastic week.
Matt Edmundson:Uh, we'll be back again next week, uh, from John and myself.
Matt Edmundson:God bless you, everyone.