In this episode of The Friction-less Workshop, we tackle one of the most under-examined issues in automotive dealership management — the foreman capability gap. Andrew Uglow makes an immediate and important distinction: while this gap exists in far more workshops than most people realise, it is almost never the foreman's fault. The real question isn't who is to blame — it's who is responsible for addressing it, and what that actually requires.

Andrew explains that responsibility ultimately rests with service managers — but that responsibility without reach is an empty promise. While the service manager carries accountability, it is the foreman who holds the trusted, day-to-day relationship with the technical team. This relational proximity gives the foreman unique leverage — the ability to influence technician engagement, drive personal commitment, and shift workshop culture in ways that no manager-level directive can achieve. And yet, foremen are almost never trained for any of this.

The episode digs deep into the measurement problem. Dealerships track and measure almost everything — yet comebacks (vehicles that weren't fixed correctly the first time) are tracked properly by only about 20% of dealers, and even then largely through manual processes. Andrew makes the case that comeback data is one of the most honest indicators of foreman performance available, and that without tracking it systematically, workshops are flying blind on one of their highest-cost problems.

Andrew introduces his Professional Foreman Method — a structured "foremanship" program, analogous to an apprenticeship, designed to give technical experts the leadership, coaching, and quality-management skills they were never formally taught. He also shares a simple, immediately implementable solution: a basic spreadsheet with four columns — repair order, vehicle type, issue type, and "avoidable yes/no" — that any foreman can start using today to identify patterns and initiate better team conversations.

Key insights include: • The foreman capability gap is hidden because the metrics that reveal it (trust, engagement, relational effectiveness) don't appear on any balance sheet • Comebacks are the most accessible proxy metric for foreman performance — and 80% of dealers aren't tracking them • Responsibility vs. reach: the service manager is accountable but the foreman has the relational leverage that makes real change possible • Foreman burnout is a direct, measurable consequence of the capability gap — and it's driving skilled people out of the industry • A simple four-column comeback tracking sheet gives any workshop an immediate, low-tech starting point for measurement and improvement • The "deck chair shuffle" — rearranging systems and processes without addressing the relational gap — explains why so many workshop improvement programs fail to deliver

Perfect for workshop owners who want to understand why performance initiatives aren't working, service managers who feel the gap between their accountability and their reach, foremen who have always suspected they were set up to fail, and dealership principals looking for the real levers behind technician performance and customer satisfaction.

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Contact Andrew for a copy of the workbook that accompanies this episode.

--

Contact details:

Andrew has a variety of free downloads and tools you can grab:

Discover if your workshop is Retention Worthy© here or visit his website, https://www.solutionsculture.com where the focus is on bringing reliable profitability to automotive workshop owners and workshop management through the Retention, Engagement and Development of their Technical Professionals.

Co-host: Anthony Perl

Produced by: 'Podcasts Done for You'

The foreman capability gap, why it's hidden, who's responsible,

2

and how to start measuring it.

3

Join passionate automotive trainer

and coach Andrew Uglow as he exposes

4

one of the most overlooked and costly

problems in automotive dealerships,

5

the foreman capability gap.

6

In this episode, you'll learn why the

gap is almost never the foreman's fault.

7

Why most dealerships have no

reliable way of measuring it.

8

And how vehicle comebacks reveal

far more about workshop leadership

9

than most managers realize.

10

Discover the critical difference

between responsibility and reach

11

and why service managers carry

accountability without always having

12

the relational tools to deliver it.

13

Along the way, you'll hear why so many

skilled foreman are quietly burning

14

out and walking away from their

roles and what Andrew's professional

15

Foreman method aims to do about it.

16

I'm your co-host Anthony Pearl, and this

is the Frictionless Workshop podcast.

17

Let's get cranking.

18

Well, Andrew, I think we've got a very

important topic to talk about today,

19

which is the foreman capability gap.

20

The question of course, to start

that off is, is there a gap?

21

Andrew Uglow: Great question.

22

The short answer is yes, and

without pointing fingers and without

23

laying blame to say that it's

nobody's fault would be accurate.

24

But at the same time, it would also be

perhaps untrue because ultimately, at

25

the end of the day, when you look at

who's responsible as opposed to who's

26

at fault, the responsibility fits with

dealership management specifically.

27

If you zoom in, it fits in directly to

the responsibility of service managers.

28

I feel that where there is a capability

gap with foreman, and certainly

29

not all businesses have that, but

it's wildly more common than you

30

would imagine, and arguably more

importantly, it's hidden, but it's

31

rarely the foreman's fault, and I can

elaborate on that as we dive into that.

32

Anthony Perl: I think we're gonna

start off by saying how do you actually

33

identify it and, and measure it?

34

I mean, is there a metric that

dealerships should be using?

35

For example,

36

Andrew Uglow: let me answer

that by telling you a story.

37

So one of the products that I'm

bringing to market presently

38

is essentially foreman ship.

39

So like you would have an apprentice,

do an apprenticeship to become

40

a a, a motor mechanic or a.

41

Automotive technician.

42

The same idea is that you would have

your technical guru go and do a foreman

43

ship coaching program, and that they

would come out at the other end as

44

a highly skilled, highly capable

foreman, dealerships are enormously

45

invested in data at every level.

46

They track and measure everything,

or at least I thought they did.

47

And so as part of being able to

prove that the, the professional

48

foreman method, which is essentially

a foreman ship program, much like an

49

apprenticeship program is going to

work well, we have to have a measure.

50

We have to have a way to test and see

what is it before people do the program,

51

what is it after they do the program.

52

And after talking to a whole bunch

of people in the industry, gurus.

53

Consulting a variety of ais who were

helpful at greater lesser degrees.

54

One of the elements that was settled

on was comebacks in that the foreman

55

is ultimately responsible for the, the

intimate operation of the day-to-day

56

mechanical functionality of the workshop.

57

And so if the workshop is not

producing fixed first visit, well

58

you'd, you'd wanna know why, right?

59

That's directly in the

foreman's control now.

60

Not all of the pieces are, but

a significant majority aren't.

61

So if the foreman has a capability gap,

then that would show up in the type

62

and the amount of vehicle comebacks.

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So vehicles that weren't fixed the

first time, and specifically that

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would show up in careless errors,

misdiagnosis things that quote

65

unquote, they should have known.

66

That's a lovely throwaway, but things

that they should have known and and

67

didn't know, or repairs that weren't

done correctly and either weren't

68

picked up in quality control or actually

made it through to the customer.

69

And now the customer's upset and not

without cause, and we've now gotta do the

70

job again, which is incredibly expensive.

71

And so I asked a whole bunch of

dealer business managers, people

72

who work at a manufacturer level,

work with dealer service managers,

73

dealer after sales management.

74

For the development of the business.

75

How can we get more throughput?

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How can we get more

profit outta the business?

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How can we eliminate comebacks?

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How can we increase customer satisfaction?

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All of the KPIs that the dealers

obsessively measure, and they're all

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mesh, they're all integrated or, or come

directly out of technician performance.

81

Right?

82

And, and technician performance is

a function of foreman performance.

83

And when I asked them, well,

how do they measure that?

84

How do they track, how do they

know that it came back because.

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The dealership made a mistake or

it came back because the customer's

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having a special moment and there's

nothing necessarily wrong with the car.

87

You know, how do they know?

88

And in the conversation that the

response that came back to me was,

89

oh, well that's easy to answer.

90

They don't track.

91

Now you, you could have

knocked me over with a feather,

92

like the absolute jaw drop.

93

Like, come on, you're having me on.

94

Surely they must track.

95

Kind of what I've discovered is

there's a bit of an 80 20 pattern

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around this good old Pareto.

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20% of the dealers do it,

but it's all largely manual.

98

It doesn't really directly integrate

into the dealer management systems and

99

I that I'm aware of, and I could be

entirely wrong, but that I'm aware of.

100

There really isn't a good methodology

or measure for tracking this.

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Some dealers split the comebacks

by internal versus external.

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As is, as in internal comebacks

are the ones that we caught.

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We did something wrong, but we

caught it before the customer got it.

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And so that's an opportunity to change

process, all that sort of stuff.

105

And again, I go, that's

function of the foreman.

106

Like that is right in the

middle of their to-do list.

107

That quality control functionality,

the external ones are ones

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that that slip the gap, right?

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They're the ones that make it through

to the customer and now the customer

110

comes back legitimately upset.

111

The deal of the ship has to then do

restitution, which is for the dealership.

112

Really unfortunate also for the customer.

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Really unfortunate.

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And can I offer for the technician

and the foreman, like this is

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a, this is a bit of a black mark

against their, their name, right?

116

There's a bit of, well,

let's call a spay to spay.

117

There's a bit of shame around this,

you know, and, and so there's a lot of

118

stretching of the truth and butt covering.

119

So as they don't look like

they're at fault because of.

120

In part because of how dealers go about

dealing with comebacks instead of, okay,

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we missed this one, how do we do better?

122

It's, Andrew, why don't you go and

back up to the mechanical as kicking

123

machine and get the as kicking that

you deserve for being a peanut.

124

So in answer to the question, no.

125

Well, yes and no.

126

Some do, but they do it manual,

but for the most part they don't.

127

And so I go, well then how do you

know if your foreman's doing good?

128

You know what the capacity gap is if you

don't have some metric or some measure

129

for it, and there's a vague nebulous

description that comes back about, you

130

know, what foreman should be doing, and

you go, well, hey, you're measuring that.

131

And it just, it's the, you know, that

Microsoft Blue Circle that you get when

132

you ask your computer to do something and

it just spins and doesn't really do much.

133

That tends to be the response that I get.

134

Anthony Perl: So you've gotta be working

between what the foreman's doing and what

135

the front office is doing as well, because

there can also be some misalignment there

136

that's causing the problem along the way.

137

Andrew Uglow: Yeah.

138

So this is a complex compound problem.

139

So this is exactly the sort of

problem that we see in automotive

140

technology on the cars, where it isn't

just one item that fails, it's a,

141

a compound series of failures, but.

142

At the end of the day, I go back

to, well, who's responsible here?

143

Ultimately, the responsibility

rests with the service manager.

144

He's the manager of

the service department.

145

It's his responsibility.

146

The challenge for the

service manager is that.

147

Whilst he has the responsibility,

he doesn't have the reach.

148

Anthony Perl: The Frictionless

Workshop Podcast is brought

149

to you by Solutions Culture.

150

For details on how to get in touch

with Andrew, consult the show notes

151

below, and don't forget to subscribe

so you don't miss an episode.

152

Now, back to the podcast.

153

Andrew Uglow: Yeah, so I

mean, talk to me about that

154

Anthony Perl: difference of, you know,

responsibility versus reach 'cause.

155

Kind of easy terms, but gotta get your

head around what that actually really

156

means, particularly in the dealership,

157

Andrew Uglow: right?

158

So this is, this is a distinction that I

don't think a lot of people are across.

159

And as a consequence of that,

assumptions get made, and we all

160

know what happens when you assume.

161

So the difference between responsibility

is, well, ultimately at the end of

162

the day, who gets held accountable?

163

And that would be the service manager.

164

Now, accountability, like other things

flows downhill, and so that accountability

165

then would flow onto the foreman.

166

But if the foreman hasn't been given

the skills and the training and the

167

knowledge and the resources to be

able to be effective, well, what

168

other outcome were you hoping to get?

169

So the big difference or

the big contributor between.

170

Responsibility and reach is relationship.

171

And so whilst the technicians have

a largely formal, and it certainly

172

does depend upon the size of the

workshop, the bigger the workshop,

173

the more formal the relationship

between the service manager and the

174

technicians who are doing the work.

175

Not that they're not friends, but

they're more colleagues than friends.

176

Whereas with the foreman, the foreman's,

the guy they go to for help, the

177

foreman's, the guy we hope that they

trust, the foreman is the guy who is

178

the technical library for the business.

179

You know, they're the ones who know

all the shortcuts, all the different

180

bulletins that are happening.

181

All the don't do it this

way, do it that way.

182

They're the ones who stand in the gap for

the, for the technicians when something.

183

Goes south, that wasn't planned.

184

And so the foreman has a deeper

relationship and arguably a

185

deeper trust with the people.

186

And because they have that relationship.

187

And if they don't, that's gonna be

like number one or two on their list.

188

And it doesn't happen overnight, but it's

something that you can grow with time.

189

Because they have that relationship.

190

They can say things, and I'm

not talking HR compliance or

191

not, but they can say things.

192

They can leverage behavioral levers

that the service manager can't.

193

The service manager, while he's

responsible at best, will get compliance.

194

There might be a little bit of personal

engagement as well, but the foreman

195

can demand personal engagement.

196

Now, that's not to say he'll

get it, but he can ask.

197

The, the personal engagement, we

call it technician engagement, is the

198

difference that makes the difference

between a high performing technician

199

and a less high performing technician.

200

Let me say it nicely.

201

Anthony Perl: Yeah, I mean, and

that's the key here, isn't it?

202

That building that relationship that

is going to tip you over the edge

203

and give you that bit can make a huge

compound difference to the business.

204

Andrew Uglow: Yeah, absolutely.

205

This is the piece that I think

that that distinction between

206

reach and responsibility that gets

missed because it's relational.

207

There isn't a line item in

the, the service department's

208

balance sheet for trust.

209

What's, what's my level of trust between

my technicians and, and the management?

210

What's the level of trust between my

foreman and, and, and the technical

211

crew that that doesn't show up?

212

That there isn't a line item for.

213

Staff turn, there isn't a line

item for staff disengagement.

214

There isn't a line item for

all of these emotional things.

215

Now, to dealership's credit, they

perhaps, with a couple of exceptions,

216

track and measure everything with rigor.

217

Like it is good for the most part.

218

The dealers that do this well, it

really is obsessive and I, and I

219

mean that in a really positive way.

220

Because it doesn't fit a process, because

it doesn't fit a formula, because it

221

doesn't fall into a financial metric.

222

It gets missed entirely.

223

And the, the consequence of that

isn't that the problems don't occur.

224

The problems still occur.

225

You still have the impact,

but you've never measured it.

226

You've never captured it,

you've never quantified it.

227

So what ends up happening is you start

to miss all of these one percenters

228

that are the difference that makes

the difference to your bottom line.

229

You don't know why.

230

'cause you've got all the process,

you've got all the systems, you've

231

got all the methodology, you've

got all the technology, you've

232

got all the AI assistance and chat

bots and all these other pieces.

233

But because the relational part

is relational, how can you track

234

that with a financial metric other

than looking globally at the KPIs

235

that you're already looking at?

236

Anthony Perl: So let's bring it

back down to the basics as well.

237

I mean, you talk about the

foreman capability gap.

238

What do we define that

as being in the end?

239

Because to me, there's capability in

terms of knowledge, but there's capability

240

in terms of what they're able to do.

241

They may not be the same thing.

242

Having the knowledge is one

thing, but having the ability to

243

actually deliver it is another.

244

Andrew Uglow: Yeah.

245

So this is, again, I go

back to this is one of these

246

complex compounded challenges.

247

So formin typically.

248

How did a foreman become a foreman?

249

Well, they just woke up one

morning and they were one.

250

There was no school that they went to,

like they had to do for their trade.

251

There was no training class that

they went to, or if there was, it

252

was really around financial metrics.

253

There was no training on how to

have a difficult conversation with

254

a technician who's disengaged.

255

There was no training on how to

engage technicians, how to encourage

256

your technicians, how to take all

of the know-how that's in your

257

head and convert it into a form.

258

That the person, the technician that's

working on the car can consume and apply.

259

Like they weren't trained on any of that.

260

And because foreman are generally

technical gurus and generally very

261

resourceful, they make it work.

262

But it's all scotch lock, sticky tape,

gaffer tape, zip ties, and silicon.

263

Like it's, it's functioning.

264

But for, for how long?

265

And I go back to the measures.

266

All of the pieces that are making it

work fall outside of the measurement

267

functionality that that dealers track.

268

And so here's the foreman, like

the duck on the pond, all calm and

269

serene on the surface, but underneath

paddling, like the proverbial and.

270

Barely keeping their head above water.

271

And so this is one of the things,

let me drop a dirty secret.

272

Just before we close.

273

This is one of the key

contributors to foreman burnout.

274

I have spoken to, can I offer wildly

more foreman than I would care to

275

count who used to be Foreman and Art?

276

And you have the conversation,

oh, I thought you were running

277

the, the workshop there.

278

I thought you'd gone to the

foreman controller role.

279

I thought you were.

280

He goes, ah, no.

281

You can't pay me enough money to do that.

282

It was living hell.

283

I had a gut full and worse.

284

I get text messages from people

who they, they go, Hey, Andrew,

285

just letting you know, I've pulled

the pin at insert dealership here.

286

I, I won't give you the feedback

that they gave me on the

287

dealership's management style and

performance, but just it wasn't kind.

288

And I've decided to drive trucks.

289

I've decided to go into landscaping.

290

I've decided to go into forklift

maintenance or, or all sorts of stuff

291

where they feel that they're better

recognized and rewarded and supported.

292

And I go back to just 'cause you

don't measure it doesn't mean

293

that it doesn't have an impact.

294

And we, we see the dealers do the,

the deck chair shuffle, you know, so

295

they're moving all the, the systems and

methodologies and processes and stuff.

296

And there is absolutely nothing

wrong with those things.

297

You, you desperately need them, but

when there's a massive hole in the

298

hole, it's really not gonna help.

299

You haven't addressed

what's really driving.

300

The technician staff turn the foreman,

burnout the customer, comeback the

301

loss in lifetime customer value,

the comebacks silly mistakes.

302

These are all symptoms of

what really is a deeper issue.

303

And whilst foreman aren't the sole

cause here, because like we said,

304

it's a complex, complex problem

for are the low hanging fruit.

305

They're the lever that you, you pull by

giving them the resources, the skills,

306

the training, by helping give them the.

307

Capability to perform in the role because

now you're in a very different position.

308

You're no longer reactive trying

to figure out what's going on.

309

You're, you're actually in a

position to start to drive these

310

non-measurable drivers via relational

means through your foreman.

311

Anthony Perl: I mean, just to wrap this

up, you just mentioned something in the

312

end there, which is curious to me, is.

313

That it's not measurable,

but I mean, is it measurable?

314

I mean, is there a measure that you

can put in place that is at least

315

going to provide a standardized

way of trying to see if there is a

316

problem and where that problem is?

317

Andrew Uglow: Alright, so given the

presently at the moment, we're seeing

318

the cost of fuel go nuts, right?

319

My, my inner Scotsman just looks

at the price of fuel and goes

320

pale clutches its chest and slides

down the wall kind of thing.

321

Everyone's going, well, yeah,

with this cost of fuel, we

322

have to increase our prices.

323

It, it drives certain

buyers over other buyers.

324

You know, it, it's a, it's a

really malicious, um, cost driver

325

that we could do without, as to

what should form and measure.

326

I go back to silly errors.

327

I go back to silly mistakes.

328

I go back to this.

329

Do we track actually what

really happened on that job?

330

Deloitte's publish.

331

Dealer benchmarks.

332

One of the dealer benchmarks is

that your comebacks should be

333

as low as reasonably possible.

334

Again, things aren't always directly in

the dealer's control, but you want to

335

control the things that you can control.

336

But if you don't measure your comebacks,

how can you possibly know what's going on?

337

And given this is like

fairly in the foreman's lab.

338

Why don't you create a spreadsheet and

just go, every time I get a comeback,

339

let me capture the repair order.

340

Let me capture the VIN model and type,

let me, well, which system was it in?

341

Was it involved in like maybe

every time Anthony gets a a

342

diesel car, he screws it up.

343

So, okay, maybe I don't want to

give Anthony diesel vehicles.

344

Or conversely, maybe Anthony should get

some training on how to work effectively

345

and efficiently on diesel vehicles.

346

What sort of fault is it?

347

Was it a silly area?

348

Did the, the spanner fall out of

Andrew's pocket when he was driving

349

the car into the customer parking area?

350

He didn't notice.

351

Customer gets in, sees the spanner and

goes round to the front desk, explodes

352

all sorts of unspeakable things that

we can't see in the podcast and goes,

353

what else did you miss on my car?

354

You left your tools in here.

355

If you can't get that right,

what else did you do with my car?

356

So like silly mistakes.

357

That just shouldn't happen.

358

These are the sorts of things that

directly in the foreman's responsibility,

359

this is right in their hands.

360

Something they can move the needle on.

361

But if they're not measuring

the type, how do they know?

362

Now, if it's parts that's messing you

up and causing all your comebacks, okay,

363

foreman can't do a lot around that.

364

But if it's data that's coming from

the service advisors or foreman

365

can do quite a bit about that.

366

So track and measure.

367

Just Jerry Rigg a piece of paper.

368

Put three or four columns and

you know, ro vehicle type issue.

369

An avoidable yes no on the

end of it you could do that.

370

And at the end of the month, have a sit

down with the technicians for a start.

371

Have a sit down with the front customer

facing team, the service advisors,

372

and go, Hey look, we're noticing

this is a starting to become a trend.

373

How do we solve it?

374

Let's put our heads together like

the proverbial, and go, well, we

375

could do this, we could do that.

376

We could adjust this process.

377

We could put this in place.

378

Some of them we don't know.

379

Service manager, help

me deal the principle.

380

Go and have a word with someone in

the, the manufacturer to encourage

381

them to get the parts here on type.

382

You know, whatever needs to happen, but

if you don't know, how can you address it?

383

Anthony Perl: Today we've pulled back

the curtain on the foreman capability

384

gap, why it exists, why it stays

hidden, and why your comeback rate

385

may be the most honest metric in your

workshop, but we're not done yet.

386

In our next episode,

Andrew dives into the.

387

Foreman bottleneck what it looks

like when the foreman becomes

388

the go-to fixer for everything.

389

And everyone.

390

In the workshop we'll explore how

well-meaning service managers and

391

technicians can unintentionally

overwhelm their best people.

392

Reveal the powerful 1 3, 1 framework

that helps foreman stop being rescuers

393

and start developing their teams.

394

And discuss why communication is

at the heart of every bottleneck.

395

The foreman bottleneck drops in a

couple of weeks, so make sure you've

396

subscribed so you never miss an episode.

397

A reminder as well to check

out the show notes below.

398

There are details on how to get

in touch with Andrew and his team.

399

And of course there is also a workbook

that you can download from this

400

episode, so stay tuned to the show

notes below so you can find out all the

401

information on how to get ahold of it.

402

This podcast is produced by my

team at podcast done for you.com

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