Content Highlights

• Who is the real villain?
• Character Reversal
• Plus an additional tangent rant

Have you ever imagined a Neverland where Peter Pan is not the hero but the villain? Join Mistie and Jenn as they take you on a sinister voyage into Nikki St Crowe's 'Vicious Lost Boys' series, where the tables are turned in this darkly imaginative retelling. Unpack the wickedness of Pan, the surprising depth behind a switch in character like Smee as a female and Croc as a man, and the treachery of Tinkerbell. The steamy undercurrents of the narrative are not for the faint-hearted, and neither are our candid discussions about the allure and discomfort that come with such provocative storytelling.

Jenn's Rating: 3 Skulls, 4 Peppers, 4 Overall

Mistie's Rating: 3 Skulls, 3 Peppers, 3 Overall

NEW DARKNESS SCALE UPDATED JULY 2, 2024 - 3 Skulls

Other Books Mentioned: The Bonds that Tie series, Perfect Strangers

They look like trouble, they feel like the wrong kind of temptation, like a pretty tree frog that can kill you with a touch. And today we are reviewing the Vicious Boys series by Nikki or sorry, Vicious Lost Boys by Nikki St Crowe.

And I want to put a disclaimer out there. I always have a disclaimer right, Always. I'm not a fan of Peter Pan retellings.

Oh yeah, I mean that's a fair disclaimer.

I feel like I'm not and I have nothing against Peter Pan, except for I hate that everybody fawns over him because in reality, Peter Pan is not a good guy. Peter Pan is a villain because he kidnaps children. I don't understand why people are okay with that, but whatever.

I mean, I think that's a fair disclaimer. I mean, did they kidnap Wendy and her?

brother. I mean that's right. But I mean, depending on which books like take this book for instance it's been generations they've been kidnapping the descendants of Wendy, but essentially the Lost Boys are kidnapped children. Now, obviously some of them were like abandoned or whatever, but like Wendy and her brothers were not Like they just tried to sugarcoat it.

I thought I thought the Lost Boys, like as a general idea, were kids that were like orphaned, abandoned, and Peter Pan brought in.

I think that's most of them. Yeah, but there's a theory out there that talks about why Captain Hook is actually not the real enemy that Peter Pan is is because Captain Hook was kidnapped by Peter Pan and then he left and grew up and he came back and he's trying to stop Peter Pan from kidnapping other people.

Oh, that's a book I'd read Like that needs to be a Peter Pan or like a Captain Hook retelling.

So I just so this kind of like was okay, because in this book Peter Pan is actually represented as the villain is. As a bad guy so that's why I was okay when you recommended it, although I'm pretty sure I put up a fight, maybe not a big one.

It was not a big one at all, yeah, but mostly because you love me.

I do love you and I'll read almost anything that you tell me to read.

That's true, true, true, okay. So do we want to start off with what? Yeah, I guess we'll continue like what we don't like, since that's kind of where we started.

I think it might. For me, I think it might be better if I start with some of the things that I did like Okay, Just because they're probably far and few between.

Okay.

And because I don't remember a lot. I'm gonna be honest on that I don't. I don't remember a lot of it because we read it earlier this year.

Yeah, yeah. It'll be interesting to see what comes back as we chat.

I loved that they represented Peter Pan as a villain, which is probably why I didn't put up a fight, because I believe he's a villain.

Right.

I appreciated some of the twists, like I liked that Smee was a female I thought that was really cool and I liked that Tinkerbell was the villain too. I know that yeah.

Yeah, I loved that Smee was a villain, or sorry, a female. And I loved that Tink was a villain.

And I don't remember a lot of the original like not Disney, but just like the original story of Peter Pan. But is the concept of saying that I don't believe in fairies? Is that real or is that just for the series?

No, I think it's real. I think it's from the original like storyline, I think that could be wrong.

Because then in my head, if you, if he said it, then wouldn't all fairies die, or is it just because you're saying it in front of that one person?

Because I think, that.

That's confusing to me.

I feel like it's when you say it, like to the fairy that you're saying it to. It'd be interesting to see if you could say it to a specific fairy and have other fairies in the room and see if they died too.

And this is why we're friends, because that would be a great experiment that both you and I would do. I meant to say experiment. Or if you're like, like if he's out walking in the woods and he got pissed off because van or bash or cash or whatever their names are, got into an argument but he's like, blowing off, seems like I hate those stupid fairies. Like he doesn't really mean it, but he's just saying it, but they're not around. So like, would they still die if he did it? Like 10 miles away from them? And is there a distance, right? At least the weird things that I think about. So in kind of retrospect of things I like, didn't like that kind of threw me off.

Yeah, I could. I could appreciate that.

I didn't like Tilly, their sister. She was stupid.

Tilly, so because.

Tilly Tink's daughter, the one who throws the throw in the pond.

Oh, the twin sister.

Yeah, the twin sister, sorry.

Yeah, she was stupid like being half a.

She was very stupid.

Or serious rather.

And I can't believe she did that to her brother's wings. She's like oh well, I thought that was expected of me, but if nobody fucking told you to do it, it wasn't expected of you, you made that decision because you're a petty little bitch.

Yeah, yeah, I wasn't.

I'm trying not to be, aggressive.

I'm not going to talk about things we like.

I'm hobbling, okay, I'm just like word vomiting for things to come out, and then we can like, pick and choose how we want to talk.

Okay. So the things that I liked this from like how I remember it grade A smut. I loved the smut in this series. Like there are a couple of scenes that I like just pop into my head randomly, just like dang. That's good. So the one thing I did like about it is I enjoyed the storyline throughout the series. So I feel like with this series it was so heavily focused on the smut. Like Nikki St Crow is well known for being a smutty writer. But I think what I liked about it is there was still enough character development and storyline and plot that you're not just reading straight up smut and I swear I think I mentioned this in one of our previous episodes the ritual, pure smut. That wasn't even good like, and the storyline, in my opinion, sucked.

So much I feel like that's going to be a recurring like baseline that we need for me.

Yeah, I agree.

Oh, I love it.

So that was one thing like this might starts out like pretty early on and hot like early on, which you know I can appreciate. And then I, like you were saying, I really loved how she set the characters, like Smitty being a female, tink being a villain, peter Pan being a villain, even like the way she kind of set up the for lack of a better term like hierarchy in the treehouse, like they had the lost boys that you know we're quote unquote, the lost boys and Peter Pan had his core three, yeah, three. So I liked, I liked how all of that was set up. I really think she did a good job Again, especially because you're talking less than 300 pages, a book of world building. For me I could like picture the treehouse, I could picture the beach, I could picture like the lagoon with you know all of it. It was a very well like described. I didn't feel like there was any. I wasn't like piecing it together. It all felt very cohesive.

I can agree with that. I could picture the treehouse too, and I liked the hierarchy as well. I also liked at the end that is going to be kind of cliche and cheesy, but all Peter Pan had to do is believe in himself, right yeah. But I was really happy that the twins got their wings back and that the shadows were mixed up between those two, and then Winnie and Vianne.

So I think I'm going to surprise you. I liked the ending for the twins and I liked the ending for Vianne and Winnie. I feel like Peter Pan could have. I feel like it was just such a like kind of what you were saying like, ooh, believe in myself. And now I'm like, fine, and I feel like that's a very like cop out, like fluffy, yes For such a dark series. It's like, ooh, you're a star.

You're trying to give him redemption when he doesn't need redemption Right.

Like he's a villain, let him be a villain. Like it's totally fine, I would have. I almost would have preferred it if it was in. It would have been like, yeah, you came up from hell one day.

And now you're, this is your, you know instead of coming from the stars.

You know, I was actually not necessarily disappointed that that's where she went with it, but I feel like she could have done something else or have him have to come to terms with. He says he loves and cares about the twins and van Like they were his own flesh and blood. Have him comes to terms with he's no longer the one in power here. I mean, I feel like I would have appreciated that more, rather than he's a star.

Yeah, we needed that transition and that the internal conflict with him, because he has been in charge this whole entire time and has had the power and now he doesn't.

Yeah.

And I think it would have made the ending sweeter for sure. It was just it was too simple, it was too easy, and maybe I mean we can speculate all day. I mean that's what we're actually here to do is speculate about it. Maybe she just didn't want to write anymore and that's why she's like, oh well, we'll make him be the good guy in powerless and that it's okay.

Yeah.

Because now, because the twins have their wings back and they're in charge of, they're the head of the fairies now, or the Fae, and they have the shadow. What does that make Winnie? I don't remember. I mean, I know she's like their queen, their darling queen, but Doesn't she still have like half the dark shadow?

Yeah, so.

So literally everybody has power and a title and a purpose, and Peter Pan doesn't doesn't he?

because once he like he's, you know he comes from the stars he steps, he's able to fly again, he gets his powers back like he, I don't remember that oh yeah, yeah, that's like he is in the lagoon. I think he's almost dying, and whoever was in the lagoon I can't remember. Sorry, y'all is like, this is where you came from. Oh, the flip in the wolf that came out of nowhere oh, that's right, I forgot about the wolf the wolf.

And then there was something else that watched everything the wolf and something cuz, wasn't that Peter Pan's old pet?

yes and then he was surprised to see it come out there like whatever the wolf's name is it wasn't pan, it wasn't pans, it was the twins oh, okay the twins.

It was there, it was the twins wolf that their mom killed that their mom killed. And there was something else. This is gonna bug me now. There was something else?

were there mermaids or something mermaids it was something like that, like some kind of. There was some other being that kept watch and then when pan was in the lagoon almost dying, he was like he got the vision of how he was abandoned at the lagoon when he was a child because his mom couldn't like deal with him, because he was too much, he was too bright of a star to whatever yeah, it's all cheesy bullshit it was original but cheesy yes, well, especially like I feel like it was.

I feel like in a different type of series it would have worked, but I just don't think it worked well in this series it's almost conflicting right, because it's supposed to be so dark, and then it ends on a light note with the most darkest villain in the series right yeah, I don't know okay, so it's actually the mother that I was thinking of.

So the mother is the one that show, like, drops him off at Lagoon and she's talking to the wolf and the wolf, told, tells her like just wait, the lagoon will give him what he needs. And then he comes up, he breaks the surface and he's aged like seven or something yeah something.

And then he didn't really the wolf. She, the mother, asks if the wolf will watch over the boy and he says as much as I can. She says you watch from the earth and I will watch from above. She's the brightest shining light in the dark, the second star on the right. So that's where, like the original, oh I totally forgot about that she's yeah.

I just like yeah yeah, so anyway, that was. That was one thing that I was disappointed with. The other thing that I didn't like in the series is and this is just a personal preference, it's not something I would not read the series again because of it. But I don't like it when authors like play into like catty behavior and there was so much of that in this book between like cherry, who is hook sister, who hook gave to Peter P and for some type of truce she becomes part of like the Lost Boys Club and she desperately wanted to be with Van Van, wanted nothing to do with her and she ends up like locking Winnie in one of their rooms and that's how Winnie gets the the dark shadow and like you had all of that cattiness with cherry and then tillie was a frickin bee.

I wasn't tink being a villain doesn't bother me, but like I wish like cherry and Winnie hadn't had that cattiness and that tillie had a brain yeah, I didn't care for either one of them, to be honest okay, the one thing, the one character that I absolutely loved in this book, in this series rather, was rock, who is a playoff of the crocodile from the Peter Pan series, and so you've got like Captain Hook, he's terrified of rock, but this is an actual person. I don't think rock comes in until book two or three yeah, I don't remember and I fell in love so fast he was pretty great. He was so hot that was a smutsing no she did really good about like twisting.

Like this, I feel like, is a twisted retelling, with all the changes that she made and from taking a story and like making it original in the way that she wrote, it was phenomenal. Like making it like, like you said, like making the crocodile an actual person that Captain Hook is terrified of, making me a female, making tink the villain like it's just. I will give Nikki kudos for that for sure yeah, which is probably why?

why I continued to read it, even though it was Peter Pan. Because I was like, oh okay, now and now we're talking. This is the right path I got you yeah, I completely, completely agree.

And then I would say some of the other like things that I liked in this in the series was Winnie going back to the home of her mom was, and basically like I can't remember if Pan was there, but I know the boys were there and Winnie kind of showing her mom like, hey, I'm safe, I'm good you know. We kind of worked out things. No one ever has to be kidnapped. Yeah, years of torture that her mom put her through.

I was. Now that you mentioned that, I triggered in my head that it was Tink who was. Was it Tink or was it Tilly who was going, who was sorting through their brain to try and find his shadow? That's why they all went crazy, because she was doing it on purpose. I just don't understand why they didn't figure that out sooner.

That's right. We've talked about that. When we when we were like chatting through the series initially, I forgot about that.

I think it was Tink and but then it had to be somebody else after Tink, because Tink was dead when Winnie was there, right, or did Tink try and do it to Winnie? I'm confused on the timeline. Yeah, I don't remember but it backfired because it triggered a memory for her.

Yeah, and that's how she remembered and they were. I was actually at Wendy's house the entire time, right yeah that's where Tink hit it.

But, yeah, it backfired because she was able to fight it and it triggered a memory and that's why they went back. Yeah, yeah that was interesting.

So I like that. There was like closure for her mom. I really loved and again, this is just, I fall for them every time. I loved Vans development through the series, like again, we just recorded the episode talking about the Bons that Ties series and like you kind of that was done a lot better, but in a much shortest, shorter span. The same type of development happens with Van. We were like, wow, he's kind of a dick.

And by the end you're like we love it when the bad boys fall, and they fall hard. Yeah, it's yeah especially the tormented ones.

I need like a hardcore trope when it's not like enemies to lovers, but more like he hates her fucking guts and then like Almost dies to save her by the end of it.

I don't know. I mean, I feel like enemies to lovers kind of covers that I don't know. Maybe you know what you should tack on it dark enemies to lovers. There we go, yeah okay. We don't want the fluffy, like neighbors Bitching about flowers or their mailbox. No, we want dark enemies to friends. Yeah or enemies to lovers. Fuck being friends. We're not even going there. We're going straight from enemies to lovers. That's it. And when they fuck, it's because they're pissed off at each other.

It's not love you, cuddly, no yes, yeah, and I think that's one thing that Vant does so well and and I mean Winnie is all for it is he's so Rough and like almost like hate sacks with her every single time, but for them it's just like this great connection and just like this.

That's cuddly and affectionate and loving. That's the way of affection. Yeah, I like that.

I could have taken, like the twins, I didn't. I never really cared one way or the other. Pan I liked. But as far as like connecting with any of the characters the only ones I really connected with for Van and rock, which is ironic since their brothers- oh that they need their Welsh.

If Van wasn't with Winnie, they could have their own reverse harem. I'd be all about it but hook, and so there's gonna be a spin-off. I know we haven't ready yet, but the spin-off is gonna be rock and and and hook, going after the original Wendy right.

The original Wendy. Yes, yeah, because Frickin pan just dropped her off at some random island years and years and years ago and was like peace.

And he never went back and he never went back.

I can't remember the exact circumstances behind that.

Think they got separated or yeah, yeah he was forced to leave or not, that he wanted to, but yeah, okay. So let's talk about something trippy, and I don't know if it was explained in the story or not. I was just in my head, but we have to think that every single Female in the darling line pan, or at least one of the the lost the vicious boys fucked, I'm assuming. Isn't that weird? Is that just me? That?

when he, when he is oh are we sure it never says that they didn't and it never says that they did?

I think they Confirmed that they never fuck Wendy when her descendants now I don't know about the descent, no, because the first wasn't the original Wendy, the one that pan Initially like wanted to keep. I just know.

I just, I just remember they're saying there's been a lot, it's been a long time, there's been a lot of generations. Yeah and so I'm just you know they're vicious boys, they, they, they're fuck boys, they like to mess around. I'm like, can you imagine being with these guys and be like, oh my god, you had sex with my great-great-grandmother three times. Three times that we Mean.

That's in my head is it any more weird that that so many of these books, the male is like hundreds of years old and the female is like 18?

Not at all, because women mature way, way past their age. They're their physical age. So your body may be 18, but you could be like 32 in your head and like a 58 year old in your soul.

I'm just saying. I'm just saying like I don't feel like it's any more weird than, like you know, a 452 year.

That doesn't bother me as much as. So I read this series. I can't remember who the author is. It's between two authors, two series and the dude is like he's he's obviously a fuck boy and he ends up sleeping with this older woman and he later finds out that it's the mom of the girl that he ends up with. Okay, and that just bothers me, like I don't know why. And they're okay with that in the story. And then there's another one I it might be the same series, it might not like the dude Like fucks her best friends Before they get together and then they get together and I'm like just okay with it and I'm just like no, but I think that's a trigger, not a trigger, but that's a line for me, like you can't have slept with my mom and my sisters and then my best friends and then maybe my my guy cousin, like you, you just. And then come.

I'm just like I don't know. That just bothers me in my head. I'm just like how are you okay with that? Because I don't think I would be okay with that If Van had sex with your great, your third great-grandmother, would you be okay with that? Or is it because it's so long and it they're not around and like you never knew her, like it's just another woman and you just as long as he's not like man.

You're tighter than your grandmother, or you know me, your great-grandmother made that same noise. I.

Think that's why it bothers me, because, like, how can they not compare right, like I Mean.

Okay, I'm picking up what you're putting down.

I just and it's, it's nothing like you didn't even make that connection right, it's just something in my brain, because my brain works weird. I just think about those things, just like I sometimes think and this is probably totally off, this is a tangent like I know that they never really go to the bathroom in books, right Like they just don't.

But then sometimes I'm just like you should probably go pee after that sexathon, like this is something that actually, like legitimately bothers me, and I was thinking about it the other day. I was literally driving and thinking about this, about and in that too, but this in particular was what I was thinking about. I'm like, okay, explain to that. You were gonna have to name this episode like we kind of talk about the vicious lost boys and Right. So here's what I want to do in a book I write eventually one day. I want a realistic Dean, multiple scenes that prep somebody for anal sex, because I'm sorry if she was a virgin, and then you're doing anal for chapters later. That's bullshit.

No, that is more believable than some chick being okay that she's with the guy who fucked her mom, okay. No, maybe I don't know but yeah, that's just a thing, that just the whole not comparing, but it's just in my brain, so that kind of stands out for me. Are we, um, ready to do some raking ranking?

yeah, I mean.

Ranking rating so, darkness, I'll let you go first, mostly because I don't have an answer yet. I'm saying three or four.

Yeah, I was thinking somewhere in the realm of three or four or four, I don't know. That's funny. Yeah, I think I think closer to three because, again, they're not killing because they want to kill. They're killing because they're kind of forced to like any of the torture that Winnie went through. You don't really see a bunch of it on page. Yeah, I think there's like a few rough sex scenes, but I mean it's one of those like walking the towing the line between consent.

Yeah. So I would agree with three. Yeah, and then the spiciness. I would say three. What?

How are you going to give Bonds a four and Neverking series a three?

Because I don't really remember there being a lot of group scenes. I think there was like one scene with Pan and Van and then maybe one scene with the brothers, but I don't remember there being one with all four of them. And if there was one, the fact that I don't remember means that it probably wasn't that good.

I think you might be right. I don't know, there was a full.

So they should be lucky. They're getting a three. You're a reverse harem and you don't have a group scene of all four of them.

I don't remember a group scene either, but I still want to say it's a four because it's still like very good spicy smut. It's just not very kinky.

I mean you can have your four.

There's some kink, I think. Which is why it's a three, and not a two, my God, I don't know. I think it's a solid four. Okay, in my opinion.

I don't disagree with you. I give you just saying you cannot be a reverse harem and not have a, have a group scene. So therefore that already knocks like two stars off or peppers or whatever.

Whatever you say, you're just bummed. There's not a group scene.

I'm very upset, very, that's okay.

And then overall, okay, overall. I'm just going to stick with my threes.

Yeah.

I think I'm going to go with the four on overall. I really I did really enjoy it. Like I said, I enjoyed the storyline as much as I enjoyed the smut, so and I think I'd reread it. I would.

They don't have to be a really good reason why I would reread it, maybe just to confirm that there's not a group sex scene, and then just be pissed all over again. I'm okay with the three Because, again, I you know I'm not a big Peter Pan fan, but I love what she did with the story. I think it was really great. It was intriguing. Not happy with the ending, like we talked about with Pan, because that was just a cop out. He didn't need redemption, right I'm probably I might enjoy the spin off more than this one, to be honest.

I, I think, personally, I think I would enjoy the spin off more than this one too. I I'm really really excited about the spin off and I and if I didn't have so many books to read that I'm looking forward to, I would be like doing a countdown to when that one comes out.

Yeah, I don't know when, but okay so my dark rating is three, my spicy is three and my overall is three and yours are three, four and four. Okay, that's not too bad.

Yeah, that's about. I mean, I think that's the first time we've ever like had separate ratings.

No, we've had a couple.

Have we.

Uh-huh, perfect Strangers is one.

Was it.

Yeah, I gave it a five and you didn't. Oh yeah.

That's because that was a bunch of BS that you gave it a five at all.

I'm just going off my scale, that's it.

That's true. That is true, okay.

Where does the darkness rate with you? Thank you for joining us on the journey into the shadows of love, where dark romance stories come to light.

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Until then, embrace the darkness and let the stories continue to stir your deepest desires.

This is Mistie and Jenn signing off from Bones of the Story.

Transcribed by https://podium.page