A quick content note: this episode includes conversations about fertility, miscarriage, baby loss, and the death of a parent. I know these topics can be difficult, so please listen in whatever way feels right for you.

I absolutely loved recording this episode with Nicola Gill — she is such a joy to chat to. We talked about her latest novel, Identity Crisis (which I adored), her writing life, and of course the books that have shaped her own reading journey.

And of course, no episode of Best Book Forward would be complete without book recommendations! Here’s everything we mentioned, with links to buy:

📚 By Nicola Gill

• Identity Crisis
• Swimming for Beginners

✨ Books Mentioned

• Mister Meddle by Enid Blyton (currently unavailable on bookshop.org)
• Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen
• Elligible by Curtis Sittenfeld
• Saint Maybe by Anne Tyler
• The Accidental Tourist by Anne Tyler
• Breathing Lessons by Anne Tyler
• Three Days in June by Anne Tyler
• The Scandalous Ladies Football Club by Frances Quinn
• Standard Deviation by Katherine Heiny
• One Day by David Nicholls
• You Are Here by David Nicholls

I’ll be back next week with another author conversation, and I’d love for you to join me for that too.

In the meantime, if you’ve enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review Best Book Forward, and don’t forget to tell your friends... it really helps new listeners discover the show.

See you tomorrow, and happy listening. 

Listen & Subscribe Now:

https://best-book-forward.captivate.fm/listen

To stay in touch with Best Book Forward news please follow me on Instagram @bestbookforward or visit my website: https://bestbookforward.org/

Welcome back to Best Book Forward.

I'm your host, Helen, and this is the podcast where I chat to authors about the books that have shaped their lives.

Think of it as like a bookish twist on Desert Island Discs.

Today, I'm absolutely delighted to be welcoming Nicola Gill to the show to talk about her brilliant new novel, Identity Crisis.

A smart, funny and heartfelt read, Identity Crisis follows the story of Claire Palmer, a woman trying to rebuild her life after losing it all.

When a case of mistaken identity at the gym propels her into the unexpected world of celebrity lookalikes, Claire thinks she's found a way to rebuild it all, but it soon starts to unravel in quite surprising ways.

Before we dive into this conversation, I just want to give listeners a quick note on some of the content.

Nicola and I discussed themes of fertility and baby loss.

As someone who has personally experienced this, I wanted to make sure that this conversation was handled with great care.

But I do understand that for some it can be too difficult.

So please listen in whatever way feels right to you.

The overall conversation is warm, uplifting and insightful and one that I really hope that you will enjoy.

With that in mind, let's give Nicola a warm welcome to the show.

Nicola, welcome, and thank you so much for joining me on Best Book Forward today.

Thank you for having me.

I'm so excited to be chatting to you about Identity Crisis.

I absolutely loved it.

So, Nicola, do you want to start by giving everyone a little flavour of what Identity Crisis is all about?

Yes.

So Identity Crisis is about a woman whose life has gone spectacularly wrong on all fronts and she falls into work as a celebrity lookalike and then accidentally starts impersonating the celebrity in real life.

It's such a clever idea and it's a brilliant read.

I loved.

I loved the idea of using somebody who looks like a celebrity who sort of unintentionally starts to explore their own life almost through it.

It's such a clever idea and I'd love to hear where the inspiration came from.

Okay, so I think the inspiration came from two main things.

The first is that I'm always fascinated by how something very inconsequential or seemingly inconsequential can completely change your life.

So the fact that the main character, Claire, is in the gym and someone mistakes her for this celebrity seems like nothing, but it actually changes her whole life.

So that fascinates me.

And I think what put it in my head was that I was in a.

Not a gym, actually a yoga studio, but same, same.

And someone mistook me for someone.

And so I think that might have been what put it in my head in the first place.

Although that was many years before.

How interesting.

Yes.

And it is such a clever idea because as you say, it's such a small moment, but it hits Claire at exactly the sort of point in her life where you can see.

And it is.

It sort of snowballs to the point where at the end I'm like, oh, yes, please.

What's she doing?

Please.

You just want to be like her best friend, to be like, do you know enough now, like.

But that would be a rubbish book, wouldn't it, if somebody stepped in right at the beginning to tell her no.

Not to be so silly.

Yeah, yeah.

But you can see how she.

How she sort of snowballs with it.

And I loved the idea of look alikes.

I've never read a book about a look or even considered their lives, actually.

It's such a fascinating world and such a bizarre way to earn a living, in many senses, because your whole identity is wrapped up in being someone else and how good you can be at being someone else.

Which is an odd one for your own sense of self.

Yeah.

But also it's the lines.

Because when you sort of start to explore it, I was like, where is the line of, yes, she's pretending to be something people know and, you know, it's really interesting, actually.

I've never considered it.

Yeah.

I fell into complete rabbit hole of research and it was just so fascinating and how different look alikes approach it because some are very kind of, you know, they compartmentalize it and they keep it very separate for their hot from their sort of normal life, as it were.

But some aren't.

They really start to almost inhabit that celebrity.

So.

Yeah, fascinating.

Yeah.

I guess if it's somebody that you look like in your everyday, it's one thing, but it's the sort of dressing up to look like them as well.

Yeah, it's really, really interesting.

People are so drawn to celebrities as well.

So like.

Well, that's huge.

That's a sort of major, sort of.

I guess without sounding too pretty about it, but that's a major theme in the book is the.

A society's obsession with celebrity, which I have to be honest, I think is, you know, often a bit unhealthy.

But people are just fascinated by celebrities and impressed by celebrities.

And I think one of the things that Claire discovers is how much more kindly the world treats celebrities than it does.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We're going completely off track here, which I love.

Let's no, let's stick with it because I just, you know, on that theme, the, the celebrity that Claire looks like reminded me very much of a, you know, somebody who was on our TV screens and, you know, the partner who she sort of pairs with, who is Jenna's co star, has a sort of similar storyline to somebody else and it is that sort of thing.

Like, when it's good for them, it's great because, you know, she's in Selfridges and people are, you know, giving her attention and freebies that she doesn't need because they think she's a celebrity.

But when there's a scandal, how their life stops.

You know, like as a lookalike, you know, they have, they have done nothing wrong but suddenly their world as that lookalike stops.

I thought that was really interesting.

Yeah, I mean, your life is completely tied to theirs, for better, for worse.

And it's odd because often people do fall into it just because they happen to look a bit like someone and someone will, you know, put the idea in their head or they get this idea to do it.

So, you know, there's a lot of chance involved.

Yeah.

I'll have to tell you afterwards, but the time that I did meet actually a very well known celebrity and I thought that he was a lookalike, but it wasn't, oh, have fun.

A look alike.

And it was actually, no, I was like, seriously, you look just, oh, how brilliant.

Really, really cross with me.

So, oops, let's talk about Claire then.

So she is a very complex character, somebody who I really related to, really rooting for.

And as I said, I felt quite protective of her.

You know, she wasn't doing anything out of sort of malice.

She was just being swept away with this situation, heart in the right place, maybe doing the wrong thing.

Could you tell us where she came from and whether she was a character that sort of developed as you wrote or if you always knew who she was and what she was going to.

Do, I would say somewhere in the middle.

So first of all, thank you because I love that you felt protective.

I felt very protective of Claire because nothing she does comes from a bad place.

You know, she is actually trying very hard to be a good person.

She just doesn't always make very good decisions.

But yes, a bit of both.

So I think at the.

Before I started writing the book, I did have a very strong sense of her and who she was and the sort of challenges that she'd faced.

I'm trying to not give too many spoilers.

It's Hard, isn't it?

It's really hard.

But I did have a good idea of that.

But then inevitably, the more I wrote and the more she interacted with the other characters, the more real and three dimensional she became.

And I think one of the great fun parts of the book for me as a writer was her friendship with Malcolm, who's her sort of celebrity lookalike, partner in crime, if you like.

And he doesn't seem, when you first meet him, like a character who's going to teach anyone anything, but he does actually teach Claire a very great deal.

Yeah, I loved Malcolm.

Yeah.

He was the friend that she needed at the right time, wasn't he?

Sort of came into her life in strange circumstances, I guess, you know, being a sort of lookalike as well.

But he was definitely the friend that she needed, wasn't he?

Yeah, absolutely.

And I think it's interesting because when you first meet Malcolm in the book, he doesn't seem, as I said before, like someone who's going to be able to teach anyone anything.

Doesn't seem to be any great font of wisdom.

In fact, he seems totally wrapped up in Malcolm, but he.

There's real depth beneath that, and he does, again, without wanting to say too much, he.

When Claire really needs him, he's there.

Yeah, I guess in his way, as much as Claire's carrying a very heavy weight, you know, he's got his own life experiences that have led him to where he is and, you know, so together.

I think they need each other as much, don't they?

Absolutely.

And that's such an important thing for us all to remember, isn't it, that, you know, everybody's carrying their own stuff, if you like.

And what we see on the surface isn't necessarily what's going on underneath.

So someone who appears as he does, very prickly and difficult.

There are.

Can be very big reasons why someone's like that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

So I'd love to talk a little bit about the structure of the book.

We talked about this before we came on.

I love books that actually, we talked a lot before we came on.

I love books that move seamlessly between timelines and sort of allow you to really feel like you're learning so much about the character.

And I think that's with Claire, when you sort of go back in her life, you really understand who she is, what she's been through and why she is who she is today.

And I just thought those timelines where you moved was just beautiful and so clever.

How difficult was that for you?

To structure the book in that way.

So difficult.

So, yeah, thank you.

I'm very delighted that it felt seamless, because it didn't necessarily feel seamless to write, but it was so important to me to show the reader how Claire got to where she is now and the things she'd been through and what makes her the person she is today.

So that was really important to me.

And it's actually great fun to swap between timelines as a writer, but it's challenging in the sense that you can get things wrong.

Like, you can read back and suddenly realize that, you know, you've had someone be pregnant for, you know, a year and a half, or, you know, you've had a child that that was, you know, born a year ago and is now seven.

So you have to try and avoid things like that.

But luckily you have lots of talented people who are there to help you and pick you up when you've got things like that wrong.

Well, as we said before, I'm so not the read.

Unless it was something like, you know, the child went from naught to seven.

I picked that up.

But, like, little things that I just.

If I'm enjoying the story, I'm in the story and that's it.

And I just thought the way you did those, I just.

I think that's why I felt so connected to Claire, because I feel like I was with her, you know, to see it all.

Try not to go through the spoilers there, but, you know, you really sort of gave me a connection to her, which I just thought was really special, and I loved it.

So.

Thank you.

At the start, we mentioned that the book doesn't shy away from some really difficult topics, particularly surrounding women's reproductive journeys and grief and loss.

And I have to say, I think you've handled them all beautifully, with, you know, a lot of warmth and wisdom in them as well.

What made you want to explore those themes in fiction, Nicola?

I'm not sure exactly.

I think.

I feel that, again, I'm trying not to say too much.

I think some of those issues are perhaps not as supported or as talked about as they could be.

And without going into a massive feminist rant, I wonder sometimes if.

Because they're women's issues with quotes around women's issues, that's the reason they don't get as much attention and as much support as they deserve.

And I think particularly.

I don't think this is too much of a spoiler, but particularly with miscarriage, it's something that often isn't taken as seriously and you know, people are told things like, oh, well, you know, at least, you know, you can get pregnant or, oh, you can try again.

As if that loss, that loss of.

Of a person, a baby, doesn't matter.

And it does matter.

And it.

It's a proper grief.

I said to you before we came on, it's something that I went through before, was lucky enough to have my twins.

And there are parts in this book that I was like, people said those things to me, and actually, I was surprised.

I mean, my twins are gonna be 13 this month, so it's a long time ago.

But there were parts.

I. I was like, oh, it's still.

There's still a pain there.

Like, when you sort of think about it, when I went through it, I feel like it wasn't talked about.

You had forums, which, I don't know website forums even exist anymore.

But.

But it was quiet, and it made it a very lonely experience to sort of go through, which is why I think this is.

If you're going through it right now, it might be too difficult for you.

But I think, you know, looking at me from looking back at it, there's a lot of comfort to be found in sort of realizing that other people have going through it.

And I think, particularly the way you've written about it is so thoughtful and sensitive.

I thought it was really, really beautifully done.

So I'd love to know, how was it for you to write those scenes and what do you hope readers will take away?

It was sometimes very hard to write those scenes, but it was important to me not to shy away from the pain in any way and to be honest and truthful about that.

And I guess what I hope is that, well, two things.

The people who might have been through something like that themselves will find comfort and to use a modern expression, feel seen.

And maybe for people who haven't experienced something like that, it will give them a bigger.

A better understanding and perhaps make them put them in a better position to support someone that they know who might be going through that in the future.

So that's what I would hope from.

From those parts of the book.

And I would very much agree with you.

I think if it's something that you were going through right now, then my publisher probably hate me saying this, but I would probably say, don't pick up the book right now.

It might be too raw for you.

But I think if you've, you know, you've got a little bit of distance from it, then it might be comforting to read those pages.

Yeah, I do.

I Think there's comfort to be found there at the right time.

But also, as you say, for friends of people who are going through it, be great if men picked it up as well.

Come to really see, you know, how, how difficult it is.

I'd love to see men read it.

So would I.

And I think one of the things the book it sort of looks at is the impact those sort of issues can have on a relationship because, you know, the idea that it always pulls people closer together isn't the truth.

You know, it's a very big thing to deal with in a relationship, in the context of a relationship.

So, you know, I, I, I wanted to look at that as well.

And it's difficult with fiction because, you know, some, you, you, I mean, obviously you never want to upset anyone with anything, but at the same time you have to examine, you know, the, the realities of life, the good bits and the bad bits of.

And so, yes, not shy away from things just because they are difficult subjects, quote, unquote.

Yeah.

I think fiction is the perfect place sometimes to explore things that are painful.

Well, I don't know, I can't remember the exact quote, but the, the idea that, you know, stories are how we make sense of the world has always been very true for me.

And I, you know, in my own reading life, I very much enjoy fiction that will tackle topics that I might have experienced or found very difficult in my own life.

But it helps me to understand them more deeply to see other points of view, but also to have my point of, my point of view sort of validated and seen, you know, it's comforting.

Yeah, it is.

It really is.

So I do want to say, though, Identity Crisis in by no way a doom and gloom read.

There is a lot of warmth and humor and wisdom and, you know, fun in it as well.

I saw, I'm going to read this.

I saw this on your website.

I wrote emotional but uplifting stories and love combining serious subjects with humorous, not least because I found that in the darkest times in my own life, it's been laughter that's got me through.

I totally relate to this, I think laughter and you know, it's so important.

So I do think something you've done really, really well in Identity Crisis is that balance.

I mean, it's heart wrenching, heartwarming, and then just these sort of touches of humor as well that just come at the right time always throughout the book.

How difficult was that for you to balance all of that, Nicola?

It was, and it wasn't difficult at the same time.

Because obviously you have to be quite sensitive when you're doing that.

But I'm so drawn to those type of stories and I.

To be honest, I'm not sure I could write in a different way.

And I. I really meant, you know, what I said on the website.

You know, even at the worst times in my life, there has been moments of humor that have pulled me through.

So one example I remember very well was at my dad's funeral, which was obviously, you know, a terrible day, and I was incredibly close to my dad, but my brother and my sister and I, something made us laugh and the three of us got sort of, you know, I suppose, almost hysterical, like, giggly about something.

And, you know, a casual observer might have thought, oh, this is a bit odd.

They don't look very upset.

But we were all devastated.

But it was something that would have made my dad laugh as well.

And, you know, I won't bore you with the whole story because it's.

Some of us are in family joke, but that has really stayed with me.

So I think with books and when I'm all my books, but Identity Crisis being no exception, you can have something that's very, very sad and painful, but you will try and find humor, and that will be the thing that makes life.

I don't know if it makes it all right again, but it makes you keep going.

Yeah, yeah.

You draw from it, don't you?

I think we had a very similar experience with my mum at my mom's funeral.

I have a brother and sister as well, and I remember us just having a moment of just.

Yeah, just being sort of hysterical and thinking people must be like, what are they laughing about?

Funny at all.

Yeah.

You do need her.

Yeah, yeah, but it is.

It's needed.

And I think it's so relatable.

Like, I think anyone, you know, even if it's not something like, that's tragic, you know, an awkward situation.

My daughter's always saying she.

She really struggles if people are telling her off because she can't stop laughing.

And I was like, oh, yeah, you get that from me.

I'm sorry.

No, I. I totally understand that.

I totally understand that.

And I think it's, you know.

You know, humans are complex and messy and multifaceted, and you can go between very strong emotions very quickly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think I love the way you write emotions, actually.

I read again from Francis Swimming for Beginners, which was my first book of yours that I read, which I loved.

I do like the way you.

You write because it's.

It's so true.

And it's sort of.

I can really relate to your characters and what they're going through.

I just think you just got such a beautiful writing style.

I absolutely love it, Nicola.

And I'm excited because I actually thought Something for Beginners was your debut.

And then Francis was like, no, she's got other books.

And I looked and I was like, I've got more to read.

The best feeling.

Oh, thank you.

That's really nice.

Okay.

We talked a little bit about Malcolm, but I also loved the men in Identity Crisis.

So there's a love interest, a former love, and Malcolm and I thought you write men really well as well.

I think I really liked them, particularly because they all face their struggles.

They're equally believable characters.

And I feel like this is probably quite mean, but did you have a favorite man in Identity Crisis?

Oh, that's a really tough question.

Okay.

I think, God, against my head, I would have to say Malcolm.

I've just got such a soft spot for Malcolm because, you know, when you first meet Malcolm, he's, you know, very vain, very, very, very orange, very full of himself and really quite awful to Clare.

I mean, not just not supportive in any way.

And you initially think, oh, what an awful little man.

But actually, the more she gets to know Malcolm and the more you as a reader get to know Malcolm, the more you realize that there's depth there.

And he's actually underneath all the sort of carapace, he's actually a very kind man.

And I guess the acid test is when Claire really needs a friend.

Malcolm comes through big time.

And I found that very.

I really enjoyed writing Malcolm, you know, his great character.

We all need a Malcolm in our life.

We really do.

Right?

Yeah.

And actually, I think for me, the thing.

I mean, he's my favorite male in the character in the book as well.

But for me, what made him so real is once I realized who he was, once some of those layers peel back, I felt like I wanted to apologize to him for judging him.

I was like, oh, I really.

I really didn't sort of think about who you were behind that look alike facade that he'd put up.

I just sort of totally judged him and I felt bad for it because he is an absolute diamond, isn't he?

I love him.

Excellent.

So in your mind, if you could pass my apologies on to Malcolm, I'll tell him that would be great.

Something we talked about before, as I found some of the book was so easy to see.

In my mind, there's scenes where Claire is posing as her look alike and she's helping a school school with their play and during the rehearsals and I just loved those scenes.

It reminded me of the movie Nativity that sort of, you know, just like the kids together.

I. I could.

I think it'd be a really good TV series actually.

I hope Netflix are listening, please commission.

Yeah, it would be really good, wouldn't it?

It would be really, really good.

Yeah.

Commissioner.

I've asked it in my mind so yeah, if they're listening.

Oh, do you want to tell us who you're casting is or keep it manifesting it secretly?

I. I think I would probably have Reese with the spoon as Claire.

Yes.

I think very good job being Claire and I think it would be.

Would she play.

Interesting to see her in that role.

Would she play Jenna as well?

I guess she would, yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, that should be brilliant.

Oh, I love that.

Yeah, let's make that happen.

Start manifesting.

Okay, thank you.

Did you have any favorite scenes to write?

So I loved writing the rehearsal scenes.

They were fun.

But also there's a scene towards the end of the book where Malcolm, who we've talked about before, Claire's at home on her own and she's very, very low and Malcolm phones and tells her to put the telly on and I can't say too much because I don't want to spoil it for people who haven't read it but when she first does so she thinks why is he doing to me this?

To me it's just cruel.

But it's actually Malcolm knows she needs to see and that was a very emotional scene to write because Claire's at her sort of lowest ebb at that point.

It's lovely.

It's such a great.

And it is a brilliant scene.

I loved it so much.

It's out now.

I recommend you all go and pick it up and Swimming for Beginners.

And if you've read any other, other.

Any of any other books of Nicolas.

Sorry, that was a weird glitch there.

Let me know your favourites because I am so keen to read more before we move on to talk about the books that you've picked that shaped your life.

Nicola, Just to remind listeners that all of the books we're talking about are linked in the show notes so they'll be reacting really easy to find.

Now I know you didn't find this easy, did you?

Picking your five.

How angry were with you?

Oh my goodness, I found it so hard.

I have about five books that I'm obsessed with at any one time.

Let Alone, you know, over the course of my whole life.

But, yes, it was very.

Well, I'm glad you did it.

We were saying the numbers, like.

But I. I often think.

I was like, should I make it six?

Then I was like, I just think it's just hard, isn't it?

It's just hard.

Anyway, so.

No, I. I could be.

To be fair, you know, if you'd given me 100, I would still have struggled.

I'd be still.

Yeah.

You know, talking.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, you've.

I have read three of the ones that you've picked.

Okay.

I've added one to my basket straight away, because I was like, oh, how have I missed that one?

It sounds really good.

Let's see if you can convince me to buy it.

Okay.

Do you want to start by telling us about your first book and why you chose it?

Okay.

So the first one I chose was the Mr. Medal Series by Enid Blyton.

And I chose those because these were the first books I remember reading on my own when I was five.

And I think they're the books that inspired my love of reading, my lifelong love of reading, but also rather grandly.

At the age of five, having read Mr. Medal, I announced that I wanted to be an author.

And it took me quite a long time after that, but I had to put Mr. Medal into the selection because you billed it to me as books that have shaped me.

And I thought, well, if that isn't shaping me, I don't know what is.

And they hold a very, very special place in my heart because I was in South Africa at the time with my mum, and my dad was still back in England, and he sent me the Mr. Medal books.

And they used to come in my memory.

I was only four, but in my memory, they used to come once a week in a parcel, and it was very exciting.

The new Mr. Medal book.

So that's choice number one.

Oh, that's amazing.

I mean, Enid Blyton's having a real moment on this podcast because for so long, nobody picked her.

And I was like, that's so weird.

I totally think she'd shape people's lives.

And we've talked about it before that, you know, we acknowledge that, you know, she was problematic in many ways.

Her books still, you know.

Well, I have to admit, I nearly, at the weekend, went back and read one, and then I thought, no, I can't.

I don't want to read it with.

With, you know, modern, you know, new eyes.

I want to just remember how much those books meant to Me.

And they did mean so much to me.

And as I say, I was 4, turning 5 when I started reading them.

So I, you know, really had only just started to read on my own.

So whether I'd like them now, I don't know.

But it doesn't matter.

Yeah, they did.

It doesn't matter.

No, I went up to.

Because I was like, they've popped up a few times.

And whenever I.

Somebody talks about these, I can remember the little hardbacks.

I went into the loft and I dug.

Well, I bought a big box of these in a car boot sale for my kids and then they weren't at all interested.

I couldn't find Mr. Medal, but I know I had the Mr. One up there.

But it's like, it's so lovely to look back at, like all the little.

Yeah.

Illustrations and things.

They were just so lovely, weren't they?

Yeah.

Beautiful books.

And I love that, you know, from that young age you decided that you wanted to be.

I know, right?

I mean, imagine at the age of five saying you wanted to be an author.

What an odd child.

My daughter's the same, though.

I mean, like, she's always.

We've got like boxes of her.

She's like, this is my first book and she's writing a thriller, so she's just going to 13, but she's all.

And I was like, gosh, I wonder whether she actually does, you know, that will be her path.

Because she was so adamant as a child.

That's what she would do.

And it's maybe, maybe, maybe.

Watch his face.

Yeah.

Okay, Nicola, let's move on to your second book choice.

So my second book choice, not a very original choice, but I chose Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen because it's just an absolute classic for a reason.

The dialogue is so sparkling and so witty and so brilliant and stands the test of time.

And it's such a.

A wonderful story about, yes, the search for love, but also the search for self, which I thought was sort of slightly relevant to identity crisis.

But yeah, I mean, Jane Austen is, you know, she is Jane Austen and hard to beat, frankly.

See, I always struggled with the classics.

So I always remember, like, being at school and just finding them, like, oh, not enjoying this.

I don't feel like I'm smart enough.

I'm not picking up what I'm supposed to be picking up.

Beth o' Leary picked Pride and Prejudice on this series.

The first one.

Yeah.

And I went back and I decided to listen to the audiobook of it.

And I love.

I went in sort of thinking, oh, the language can be too hard.

But it's like actually, if you take away that sort of feeling of it being like a school or must read and must understand and enjoy it.

I enjoyed it so much more.

So I'm like sort of opening my door a little bit now to sort of trying more classics.

At the grand old age of 48.

I also picked it.

So this is really naughty, but I picked it because I could cheat a little and mention Eligible, which is Curtis Sittenfeld's modern retelling of Pride and Prejudice.

And Curtis Sittenfeld is one of my favorite authors as well.

So I thought, okay, if I mention Pride and Prejudice, I can get in Curtis Sittenfeld reference.

I'm not gonna.

I mean, I did notice as well, Mr. Medal's stories was a series.

I know, I've noticed.

I've already noticed the sneaking in.

Nicola massive cheating.

Massive.

That's like.

You've got to beat Nikki May, who got the Alphabet series.

So she got a whole series.

That's one for every letter of the Alphabet.

I can't remember who it was by, but she.

She currently holds the champion of sneaking.

She really did.

Okay, let's move on to book number three, then.

So I can't remember the order that I picked.

Saint.

Saint maybe.

I picked Saint maybe by Anne Tyler.

And to be honest with you, I could have picked any Ann Tyler book.

I've read every book she's ever written and I think she is absolutely incredible.

Someone, I can't remember who now, but someone much cleverer than me said that she makes the.

The ordinary extraordinary.

And I think that's a perfect description of why Ann Tyler's writing is so peerless, really.

Because she takes things that seem very small and she just makes them everything.

And that quiet writing is so clever and so hard to pull off.

And I just think she's an incredible writer.

I mean, in awe of how she manages to do that.

She is a favorite on the show.

She's been picked many times, including.

So the Accidental Tourist has been picked a few times.

Breathing Lessons.

Oh, I love the Red lessons.

I love.

Oh, I have.

See, I haven't read many of hers.

The last one I read was her newest one.

Oh, the.

The Wedding in June.

Three days in June, Seven days in June.

Oh, do you know, I can't remember the title.

That might be the only untitled book I haven't yet read.

I'm gonna go and I'm gonna go and order it as soon as we're off.

Three days in June.

It's called.

I'm gonna go as soon as we finish talking.

That's what I'm.

Oh, it's a really small book.

I got so much out of it.

And just, like, the language and everything put her off.

She's incredible.

And I probably shouldn't admit this because I don't think it reflects very well on me but if someone says to me, oh, I don't really like Ann Tyler, I'm like, well, I'm not sure we can be friends.

I have that with a few authors as well.

Don't worry.

I must go.

A lot of books, actually.

You know, I mean, if someone would say to me, they don't like a Francis Quinn book, I would be like, no, I can't be friends with you.

Yeah, sorry.

I can't understand that.

It's funny, isn't it, when you meet people and you have such a similar taste in books and you're like, oh, I can see.

We're just.

Yes.

We're just meant to be.

Just meant to be.

Exactly.

Yeah.

But then.

Yeah.

No, Frances Quinn as well as.

She's a. Oh, she's wonderful.

And her stories are.

I always think it's.

You know.

Even if you don't think you like historical fiction you would love those stories because they just absolutely transcend time and they're just so uplifting and so wonderful.

I can't wait for her new book.

It sounds, oh, well, amazing.

Have you read it?

I. I have.

I've been lucky enough to have a sneak preview and it is absolutely superb.

It's everything you would expect from a Francis Quinn book.

It's an absolute gem and a joy and.

Yeah, wonderful.

I can't wait, because the Troublemakers.

I think it's out in March.

We're recording this in November.

I think it's out March.

April time, isn't it?

I don't know.

And it's.

I mean, it's just superb.

It's everything you want from a Francis Quinn book.

So it's Pacey, and it's warm and it's emotional and uplifting and funny and just wonderful.

I can't wait.

I can't wait.

Okay, so we're gonna move on to book number four, then.

Nicola.

Book number four was Standard Deviation by Kathryn Heinie.

And I've picked this because this would be my favourite or one of my favorite, if I'm being honest, uplifting books.

I don't know.

Have you read it?

No.

This is one I added to my basket.

I looked at it.

I was like, how have I Not read this.

Absolutely.

I can confidently say you're going to love it.

Kathryn Heinie writes character so brilliantly.

I mean, the characters in Standard Deviation and particularly Audra will stay with me forever.

I mean, she's just one of the greatest fictional characters of all time.

And she is also very good at mixing the scenes that are very poignant with very, very funny.

I mean, it's properly laugh out loud funny.

So that's a book that, you know, if you're having a bit of a, you know, tricky time or whatever, I would go back and I would read Standard Deviation again as a comfort read because it's just a joy.

I. I don't know how I missed it because I looked it up and when I was reading I was like, I mean, this just sounds like it couldn't be more me if it tried.

Oh, no, she's.

She's amazing.

She's amazing.

And I.

It was quite funny, actually, because I. I went a couple of years ago to a Water Zones event that Katherine Heiney was being interviewed and I met her afterwards.

She was absolutely lovely.

But slightly embarrassingly, she knew me from social media.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

But from sort of, you know, rhapsodizing constantly about her books and she was like.

She was very gracious about it, but I felt sort of slight, slightly embarrassing, fangirly.

Oh, no, I love that.

She's a really, really incredible writer.

I'm gonna get it.

Like, yeah, I. I can't remember when I first read it.

I don't know if I read it when it very first came out, but it was a while ago.

But I think I've probably read it four times since then, which.

Oh, wow.

It's quite something because, you know, I get a lot of proofs for.

For work and, you know, there's a lot of new books all the time that you want to read and, you know, classics you haven't got to yet and stuff.

So to have read one book over and over, that shows that it's special.

It is, yeah.

I love that.

And your next choice is one that I have read so many times.

Oh, me too.

I love this book.

Me too.

Tell us.

So, not the most original choice from me, but I couldn't not have it.

So One Day by David Nicholls and I. I'm going to make a huge sweeping statement and say, no one does love quite like David Nichols.

I mean, the minuti of relationships and not just falling in Love with someone but staying in love with them.

He just does brilliantly.

And Emma and Dex, again, are very, very special characters.

His who have stayed with me long after I've turned the page.

And again, it's a book that I've gone back to.

I just think he's superb at what he does and I love all his books, actually, but I had to pick one day because it's just such a clever premise and done so well.

It is.

It really.

I mean, it's been picked so Claire Pooley, Kate Sawyer and Matt Kane have picked up it.

I'm in good company.

You are in good company with a great book.

And it is.

It's.

I've read it.

I've just read it so many times as I get older and I read it now and as a mom, I'm like, oh, m. Come on.

I know the sky, but it breaks my heart every time.

But that's a.

That's another really interesting thing, isn't it?

Is that the time a book finds you in your life.

Yeah.

Is how will dictate, in some sense, how you react to it.

So Pride and Prejudice, which I picked, I did as one of my A level books and actually, at the time I was sick to death of it, so I've had to fall back in love with Pride because I certainly would not have picked it aged 18.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, it's interesting.

I think, like, a lot of the sort of, you know, books you do for school and things, you know, you do either have to fall in love with them again or.

For me, I had to fall in love them the first time when I was older because I just did not enjoy doing them at school.

I just found it hard.

Yeah, really hard going.

And a book that you can sink into on holiday and you're having the most marvellous holiday and you can totally fall into that book and lose yourself into it, is going to have a better chance of becoming a favourite book than a book.

You're sort of, you know, pressed up on the tube trying to read, you know, two pages with someone under someone's armpit, et cetera, et cetera.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, yes, it definitely does make a difference where a book finds you.

No question.

Yeah, I do.

I always think this right book, right time as well, like.

Yes, take the one that's like, just.

There's nothing better, is there, when you pick up the right book.

Oh, just.

Oh, love that.

Yeah.

No, it's.

It's a wonderful feeling.

And, you know, when you discover an author that you.

You Know you haven't read before and you read one book that you love and then you think, oh, my, there's more.

Oh, it's so good.

That's what I've got with you.

I was like, oh, I've got more to go and, like, read as well.

So I'm really excited about that with David Nicholls.

I think you're so right.

His love stories.

Did you read his latest one?

You are here.

I loved it.

Oh, wasn't it gorgeous?

Beautiful.

Absolutely beautiful.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And he is so nice, as I've met him, and he is so nice and so charming.

You think you are like your books, you're just lovely.

Yes, yes.

No, I think he is a really lovely person.

He.

When in.

During lockdown.

So my very first book came out at the.

Just into the first lockdown and there was a thing that a writer called Holly Bourne, very talented writer, started, which was called Sign for your local bookshop, where, because bookshops had to be closed, they were getting authors to sort of generate sales, to sign book plates, effectively a sticker that came in the front of the book to help generate sales for local bookshops.

So people would buy the book online and then apply through the scheme, and the author would send them a book plate.

And I got involved in it and was signing, and slightly more excitingly for readers, David Nichols was also involved in it.

And I emailed him at the time and I said, oh, look, I know I shouldn't really do this, but we're both signing for this.

Would you mind signing a book plate for me?

And bless him, you know, A couple of days later, through the post, I got a lovely book plate saying, to my fellow author, love and best wishes, David Nichols, which was really special, really special.

And I think he.

I mean, Matt Kane was saying so with his debut novel, he crowdfunded for it and David Nichols helped him with the crowdfunding and supported it.

And I was like, that's so nice when you hear somebody who's so successful in their career just being nice.

I mean, you always hear lovely stories from his readers and it's nice that, you know, he sent that to you as well.

Yeah, it's so lovely.

No, I think he.

He does champion other authors.

Yeah.

And he's.

Yes, he's got a very good reputation within the industry as being very kind and supportive and just.

I mean, I think that comes through in his books because there's so much warmth and humanity and empathy in them.

Yeah, Yeah.

I think you'd have to be.

Would somebody who Isn't like that?

Be able to write that way?

Like you must have it in you to be able to put it on the page, surely.

I don't know.

Or be a very good actor.

Yeah, it's a really interesting question, isn't it?

Yeah, it's a fascinating one.

I don't know the answer to it.

Most of the authors I know are quite similar, I would say, to what you see on the page.

I mean, hang on, let me go back on that.

It depends the genre.

Obviously not thriller writers.

I do know some very lovely kind thriller writers who write very dark stuff.

So maybe I'm talking nonsense.

No, you're right.

Because actually I often think with some of, you know, particularly the female thriller writers, they're also lovely and so fun, funny.

And I'm like.

And then they're like writing these like.

Yeah, sinister dark plots.

I'm like, oh yeah, where did that come from?

Yeah.

But I think to write a David Nichols type of book as well as he does, I gonna go out on a limb here and say I think you'd have to, you know, be a pretty good person.

Yeah, I would totally agree.

Okay, Nicola, I'm gonna hit you with the last question.

It's a difficult one.

I think I know where you're going though.

If you could only read one of those books again, which one would it be?

See, I hate this question.

I hate this question.

It's so cool.

How can you do it?

It's so mean.

I know.

Oh, what am I gonna pick?

I am going to take standard deviation just because I know that I can read it.

Or, or am I going to take one day?

I could read.

Let's.

Let's give you them all.

I can see the pain.

I can see the pay.

Apart from the Mr. Man.

Mr. Man.

Mr. Medal.

Yeah, I don't need Mr. Medal.

That can stay.

It was very important.

But that can stay.

But yes.

Okay, give me them all.

Thank you.

I'll give them.

I could see the pain I was putting you through and I know you already struggled to get it down to five.

So I was like, let's just stop before I.

Before I break you.

Thank you.

I appreciate that.

Oh, Nicola, it has been so wonderful chatting to you today.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you for having me.

It's been an absolute pleasure.

I could talk about books for hours.

Me too.

I've loved it.

Thank you.

I loved that conversation with Nicola.

That was so much fun.

She's a joy to chat to.

I hope that you enjoyed it as much as I did.

Identity Crisis is out now and I would highly recommend it, as well as Swimming for Beginners, which I also loved and I am so excited to read more of Nicola's work.

If you're enjoying the show, I would be so grateful if you could take the time to rate, review, subscribe and tell your bookish friends all about it.

It makes such a huge difference to the show.

I'll be back next Thursday chatting to another author and I really hope that you'll do join me for that conversation too.

In the meantime, thank you so much for listening and see you next week.