PCE, HCE, shadowing, volunteering. Nobody explains the difference well, so let's fix that.

This is the audio from one of my experience webinars, and it's the question I get more than any other. What counts? What doesn't? How many hours do I actually need? And why does one program say 500 and another say 2,000?

The short answer is that every program defines this differently, and CASPA's categories don't always match what a specific school wants. So you have to check. But there are patterns, and once you understand what programs are actually looking for, you stop chasing hours and start choosing experience that makes you a better applicant.

I also get into how to write your experiences up on CASPA, because a great job described badly reads like a bad job.

What I cover:

• Patient care experience vs. healthcare experience, and how CASPA splits them
• Which jobs typically count as PCE and which ones surprise people
• How many hours you realistically need to be competitive
• Where shadowing fits in and how much is enough
• Whether volunteering has to be medical to matter
• How to write experience descriptions that actually help you

Resources:

Free Pre-PA Resume Download: https://www.thepaplatform.com/services/free-resume-download

Free Application Timeline: https://www.thepaplatform.com/services/free-application-timeline

PA Program Map: https://www.thepaplatform.com/pa-platform-map

Pre-PA Counseling: https://www.thepaplatform.com/services/pre-pa-counseling

Mentioned in this episode:

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Let's talk about experience, patient care, healthcare, shadowing, volunteering, all the above plus some welcome to the Pre PA Club Podcast.

If you want to learn how to become a physician assistant, you're in the right place.

I'm your host, Savannah Perry.

Let's get to it.

I want to thank mypa Resource and PA School Prep for sponsoring the Pre PA Club Podcast.

So mypa Resource is a personal statement editing service that edits only PA school essays, only edited by PAs, and most of us have admissions experience, so I am one of the editors.

Definitely check them out if you need help with your content, grammar flow, making sure that you are on track for turning in your application and you can use the code Future PA for a discount on any of their service options.

Welcome to the Pre PA Club Podcast.

I have clearly had my coffee today based on that intro, but thank you for joining me.

I am Savannah Perry.

Answering lots of questions surrounding patient care experience, healthcare experience, shadowing, volunteering, research, teaching, leadership.

Basically all of the different experience categories on CASPA from how to get experience, what makes a great experience, how to talk about it on your application, and much more.

So this is a little bit of a longer episode because the session was an hour long.

If you want to break this up into two listening sessions, feel free, but I will not take too much more of your time and we will get into it.

If you would rather watch this, it is on YouTube.

If you go to YouTube.com thepaplatform or just Google that, you'll find that there as well as some videos we've been posting more regularly.

I just did one this week on PA versus MD and how I made that decision.

So if that's something that you are thinking about or have questions about, definitely check out that video.

But we'll get into it.

If you want to know about any other upcoming webinars, make sure to follow along on Instagram hepapa platform.

That's where I tend to post them or on TikTok physician assistant and I try to make sure that everyone knows about what's coming up.

We've already had the one for February so be on the lookout for that to be posted, but the one for March will be on Caspa and I'LL be talking about that soon and adding a link in some upcoming episodes next week.

The link to that is in the description for you to sign up and will also be posted on social media.

So I'd love to see you there.

And we'll be taking questions ahead of time for that as well.

But yeah, let's get into talking all about experience and I owe you guys a blog post from this webinar because there were so many great questions and so many we weren't able to get to.

So that will be coming soon.

Okay, so we are going to deep dive into experience and it's just me.

I do have somebody kind of helping with the chat, but I'm going to try to keep up the best I can.

Y' all help each other.

Y' all are so good at that.

You know, if you have the answer to something or know where to point somebody put it in the chat, like, totally fine.

We're here to help each other kind of thing.

So yeah, that should be good.

I've got a bunch of questions we kind of came up with ahead of time and then I have some examples that kind of go that I actually like.

I'm super organized tonight, which I normally am not.

I went through and like categorized things.

I'm hearing somebody say no audio.

So if some of y' all have audio, let me know.

But I think it should be good.

So this will be recorded.

If you can't watch the whole thing, can't stick around.

You will get a replay email, I think in 24 hours.

I'm not exactly sure, but you will get a replay email to re watch it and then I will try to load it onto YouTube as well.

All right, cool.

Let me make sure I have everything up that I want to show you and try my.

My desktop is a mess and I always have 5 million tabs open.

I don't know if anyone can relate, but it's a constant problem.

All right.

And if y' all have questions as we go ask them.

I am going to be watching the chat and we have a Google Doc with questions.

I'll be watching that too.

But we'll try to kind of get to as much stuff as we can.

So experience.

And I'm really going to stick to on topic questions.

Sorry, you can see my funky background over here.

But there's no certificate for this.

There's no proof.

This is Just informational.

And so this is strictly informational to help you in the process.

Shadowing counts.

Anything under experience, you're good to ask questions about tonight, but next month in February, I'm be talking about personal statements.

So we're going to be like making sure I just clicked the wrong thing like that.

We're covering everything.

It just, we're going to try to stay on topic because otherwise is.

It's all over the place.

Make sure I close that out.

Okay, cool.

The Google Doc is for me and the person helping me in the chat, her name's Emily.

If you need anything, ask Emily.

But she's putting questions in the Google Doc for me.

So that's kind of how we're communicating outside of the crazy chat.

But yeah.

So February will be personal statements.

Let me see.

I think I already put on my calendar.

I just want to double check.

Maybe I did not.

Oh, yeah, I did.

Okay.

So the February webinar will be on February 18th at probably around the same time, like 8pm Eastern.

But be on the lookout on social media.

I'll post on Instagram.

It'll go out in the newsletter next week if you're on our newsletter.

So experience, I'm going to start by kind of going in order through the like questions that came through primarily on Instagram.

And we will get to everything that we can.

All right, so one question that I got right from the beginning is what matters most?

Patient care experience or gpa.

And one thing I'll say a lot during this session is if you it is school dependent, there are some schools that really focus on GPA and don't care as much about hours.

And there are other schools that put a lot more emphasis on that experience and not as much on gpa.

So if you feel like you are stronger in one category, that may be something that you can look into.

When you're researching schools, one way to sometimes tell is by looking at a school's average statistics.

If anyone wants to throw out a school, I'll try to look it up and we can use that as an example.

But it really, you know, you'll have to look.

If a school requires 2,000 hours of patient care experience, they probably care more than a school that says they don't have a specific minimum or they only want 100 hours.

All right, Cornell, let's see what we can find.

So here, let me share my screen so I can kind of walk you through how I would do this.

I think it's this one because I really want y' all to like Learn how, how I find stuff.

So let's start with Cornell.

So I'm going to just look up Cornell.

So I, when I'm googling, I type in exactly what I want to see.

So I'm going to type in Cornell PA program acceptance rate.

That came up.

Let's see what, what they have to say.

So usually the first link is going to take you to the school's website and let's see what they have here.

Not every school posts their averages.

Let's make this bigger.

So it's telling us about the school.

You kind of have to search for some of this information.

Let's see if there's anything up here.

Admissions requirements.

Sometimes it's going to be in the faq, which let's look while we're here.

So their healthcare experience.

So they don't even, they still don't call it patient care experience, but they call it direct patient healthcare experience.

That's still patient care experience.

All applicants are required to have a minimum of 500 hours of direct patient HD prior to applying.

So can you.

So this is something that's very important and we'll talk more about later.

This school wants you to have your, your hours done by the time you apply.

Not that by the time you start school.

Because that was another question.

I got as far as like when and how do they take into account hours that are still in progress.

So this is a good example of that and we'll talk more about it later.

But these hours must be completed and accurately self reported on the application.

These hours may be satisfied by either paid or volunteer experiences and require hands on patient.

So that's all really great details.

And most schools are going to have details like this on their pages.

Again, you may just have to search for it a little bit.

Let's see if this document tells us anything.

This is their attrition and graduation rates.

I don't know if it'll be on here.

Sorry for my slow Internet.

So this just tells us their attrition rate, how many graduated.

They have 100% graduation rate, but that does not tell us their average accepted information.

They have information sessions.

That's cool.

Graduate performance.

That's not it.

So they may not have their averages posted.

I saw somebody said Augusta University and that's where I went.

Let's look them up.

So admission statistics.

Look, it's already here on this first page.

So if we go there, let's see what they think.

Which they don't require a ton of patient care experience.

My Internet so slow tonight.

Sorry.

Okay.

So here we go.

It shows each class.

The most recent class had an average GPA.

Oh, here's most recent of 3.69.

Average math and science of 3.52.

And then they actually don't tell us the patient care hours, so that tells you something.

They don't even have it on here.

That doesn't mean they don't think it's important, but to them it's not important enough to include right here.

Other schools will have that on there.

So, anyway, we'll come back to more examples later, but I'm not going to check every school, like, but I'm just showing you how to do it so that y' all can check schools and what to look for on the program websites.

We'll do more examples with other stuff later.

So I'll be on the lookout for when y' all put stuff in there.

So there's not necessarily a.

Like, this matters most.

That's general across the board.

It's going to be program dependent.

The next question that came up was how much does the type of experience play a role applying to PA school?

Again, it's going to be program dependent.

So like we just saw on Cornell's website, they didn't really have a list of different things that they prefer.

It just said that they wanted you to have 500 hours paid or volunteer.

And so the most.

Probably one of the most frustrating things about PA school is that nothing is standardized between programs.

And so you're going to have to check links.

If you use the pa, we have a program map on the PA platform, and that's a quick way to get to links to every single program.

But, yeah, so definitely use program websites.

But when it comes to what type of experience plays a role or is more important, the more patient responsibility you have, the more skills you need, the more responsibility in general that you have, the more valuable that experience will be.

If it's freezing, make sure you refresh and it should come right back.

Like I said, I don't know what's going on my Internet.

I don't think it's stormy, but yeah, try to reconnect and then when.

If you miss them, go back to the replay.

Sorry.

All right.

Another good question was who should you contact to see if something counts or to clarify any requirements?

Now, please, if they already have it on their website, like, very clearly listed, like I showed you a minute ago, it may be hard to find.

Like, you may have to click through every single part of the website, but if they already have it listed, don't Contact that program about it, because that is not going to look good for you and looks like you haven't done your research.

But if there's something that you're unsure of, usually a program is going to have an admissions email or someone in charge, whether it's like a support person or an admissions director that you can contact.

Um, and I would definitely, you know, use that.

They have people there to answer your questions.

And so, you know, reach out to those people and make sure of things before you jump into a certification program of something that's not necessarily going to count or.

One of the questions I get a lot is like somebody trying to decide between two jobs.

And I definitely think looking at the programs is the best way to determine which jobs are going to be best.

Sorry for the freezing.

I don't have any way to fix it.

And like I said, my Internet, I can tell from looking things up, is kind of struggling right now.

I don't know why, but okay.

So I got a lot of questions sent in about what counts.

And some of the things that were asked about were pharmacy tech.

That was a big one.

I see Alyssa actually answering this in the chat.

Most programs are going to call pharmacy tech healthcare experience.

You're exactly right.

So some will consider it patient care experience.

And some of this does come down to how you explain things and how you explain what your roles and responsibilities and job were, which I'm going to show you in just a little bit.

So, again, pharmacy tech, usually healthcare experience.

Someone else said they work front desk at an orthopedics office, but they take blood pressure sometimes.

So in a situation like this, when you're most likely primarily in a healthcare experience setting but doing some patient care, I would go with what you primarily.

So you have two options.

You can go with what you primarily do, which is probably like being healthcare experienced, being a front desk receptionist type person, or you can separate it out.

So if you have a pretty set schedule, like you know that four hours in the mornings on Tuesdays, you have to help out in the back, you could pull those hours out and use them as patient care experience.

You just need to subtract them from your healthcare experience.

Because if you follow me for a while, you know I will always say, don't double dip.

You cannot double dip hours.

You cannot double dip classes.

Nothing can overlap in what you're using it for when it comes to requirements and applying to PA school.

Another one I got was HIV and STD testing counselor.

So this is a situation where it depends on what you do.

If you are actually talking to patients and counseling them and talking about results.

I would say that's 100% patient care experience, probably.

But some schools may not.

But for the most part I would say that's patient care experience.

If you are in a lab processing these tests, that's probably not patient care experience, that's healthcare experience or research.

And so you've really got to look at what you actually do.

And you can't really just go by the title either.

That's what a lot of people say like, well, I'm an ma, so I'm like automatically patient care or I'm a CNA and I'm automatically patient care.

And that's not the case.

You have to go by what you actually do on a daily basis in these cases.

So let's see.

Dental assisting.

I would say most schools count that as patient care experience.

Same as ophthalmology technician, but again, program dependent phlebotomy.

Yes.

Becky is usually patient care experience.

Great experience by the way.

Radiology tech.

I would say most of the time that's probably patient care if you're directly interacting with patients.

So I just talked to a pre PA club and I worked all day, so I'm kind of losing my voice.

Scribing is one that falls in the gray area of skin.

Sometimes it's healthcare experience and sometimes it's patient care experience.

So it just depends on the school.

And ultimately when it comes to putting those experiences into caspa, it's up to you to determine where they fall.

The schools are going to look at.

If you're in the pre PA conference a couple weeks ago, like we talked about this extensively, schools are going to determine where that experience actually goes for them because they know that CASPA is not.

It's like a catch all and it's not going to always be accurate for what they consider patient or healthcare experience.

Okay.

Someone else said COVID testing and vaccine administration.

I think in most cases that's going to be patient care experience.

Yeah, I mean you're going to be working up patients, doing intake, doing skills on them.

I think that would likely count for most schools.

Okay.

I love all yalls discussion in the chat.

It's great.

Okay, the difference, let's talk about the difference between patient care experience and healthcare experience before we get like too far into this.

And I'm going to pull up the CASPA definitions just to clarify a couple things.

Let me figure out where I put them.

All right.

And this is just an important page anyway, so make sure y' all are using and looking at and reading the CASPA faq.

So this is the.

I just typed in.

All I typed in was CASPA experience.

And this came right up.

So in this section they have laid out exactly what all of the different types of experience are that you can put into CASPA and given you definitions of those things and talked about how to enter it and how to separate it.

So this is extremely helpful.

Highly recommend using this and yeah, definitely use it.

So non healthcare employment, that's pretty self explanatory research, volunteer work, patient care, which it doesn't explain up here.

No it doesn't.

All it does say is that I agree with is note that since each program's definitions and requirements may vary, CASPA has no specific preference as to which category you choose.

They don't care.

You can say Taco Bell is your patient care experience.

Okay, so patient care experience, these are experiences in which you are directly responsible for a patient's care according to caspa.

For example prescribing medication, which you're really only going to do if you're like a PA or a doctor or an np, performing procedures, directing a course of treatment, designing a treatment regimen, actively working on patients as a nurse, paramedic, EMT, CNA, phlebotomist, physical therapist, dental hygienist, etc.

Okay, nobody freak out, nobody get mad, we're going to talk about this.

So healthcare experience is both paid and unpaid work in a health or health related field where you are not directly responsible for a patient's care but may still have patient interaction.

For example, filling prescriptions, performing clerical work, delivering patient food, cleaning patients and or their rooms, administering food or medication, taking vitals or other record keeping information, working as a scribe, cna, depending on job description and medical assistant.

So for whatever reason CASPA moved medical assistant from patient care experience to healthcare experience.

And then they kind of put CNA in like both categories.

And so this is the prime example of how CASPA is not the final say like I think in their definition and it actually used to have more.

It's they're referring to like a, like a medical assistant who does prior authorizations.

Also keep in mind that the people who do casper like they're not necessarily medical people.

And so this is where it comes down to the actual kind of job that you do and the tasks versus your actual title.

Because you may be a medical assistant who only does paperwork and that is not patient care experience, that is healthcare experience.

Or you may be a medical assistant in a derm office where you're injecting patients and numbing them and assisting with surgeries and going over instructions about their medications and really, really involved in the clinical decision making around that patient.

And that is absolutely patient care experience.

The other like.

So if we're talking about cna, like most schools are going to accept your CNA experience as patient experience.

Some will have preferences.

They'll want you to work in a hospital setting where you're able to see that clinical decision making versus a nursing home where you're really just caring for the patients and helping them.

You're not necessarily involved on the medical side.

But that's not going to be 100% accurate either because you may work in a nursing home where they have providers coming in and you get to help with the clinical stuff.

So there's not a set thing or category that everything will fall into 100% of the time, even EMT.

So sometimes transporting as an EMT does not count as patient care experience if you're just transporting patients and not actually providing emergency care.

Again, this is program dependent.

Y' all don't come at me.

It's all the schools and how they function.

And usually if they.

These schools are going to set precedents based on what has happened in their programs before.

So if they've consistently seen like this type of person with this type of patient care experience does not perform well, they probably are going to be less likely to accept it.

And on the flip side, if they see that people who have worked as EMTs or paramedics do really well, they might favor that.

And so it's not completely random.

It is a little bit dependent.

I'm seeing the question of do you have to have both healthcare experience and patient care experience?

Not necessarily.

I have heard from some admissions people that it kind of looks good to fill all the categories if possible, but in general, patient care experience is going to be more valuable than healthcare experience where you're getting that one on one care as much as possible.

Okay, I hope I'm not being more confusing than helpful.

And I know it's like a lot and it makes you like question it.

But like ultimately like you know what you do and whether it's contributing to patient care or not, like that is all you gotta go by.

And my massive water ball working on it.

All right.

Okay, so what is the quote, best way to get hours?

This is gonna be program dependent, but in general, schools want a variety of students.

They really, they don't want all students who have done exactly the same experience.

That's not what they're looking for.

They, they want a variety.

We had all different types of people with all different backgrounds in my class and that made us do better and learn from each other and from each other's experience.

So I don't think there's necessarily a best way to get hours, but I think if you can focus on getting that higher quality experience where you are more hands on and have more responsibility, that's great.

But if you got to start with something where you don't have as much responsibility, that's okay too.

Okay, let's talk a little bit about logistics of caspa.

So when you put your hours in any experience, you'll put the dates and Emily just posted our free experience log, which is.

Oh, I'll show it to you.

I have it pulled up.

Where is it?

Here it is.

Okay, let me show you this fun little thing because I was asking about how to keep track of hours so you can download this for free on the EPA platform.

And so this is set up exactly like how you will have to enter everything into caspa.

I would even recommend maybe putting this in an Excel or like Google numbers or whatever so that it saves automatically.

But you'll have to put your position or title, your supervisor's name, their number, contact number, facility address, whether it was paid or unpaid.

And you'll have options in here for like you can put it was for academic credit as well, the dates that you completed it, the hours per week, that's probably more helpful.

The total weeks and then the total hours.

So what it's going to do is it's going to multiply your hours per week by the total weeks.

So that can be a little difficult if you're not, if you don't have a consistent schedule.

I think the best way to handle this is to figure out what your total number of hours are and separate it into making it work for the hours per week in total weeks and then explain in your description what your schedule was like, if that's relevant.

So up here at the top, and this is, I only have numbers on here, but the actual thing is an Excel document, but we have patient care experience and then one for healthcare experience, volunteering, shadowing and non healthcare experience and patient care jobs.

You could add a research or teaching one if you need to, and then one for honors and awards as well.

So, yeah, that's something you can download.

All right, so that's how you enter it.

You will be able to put that an experience is in progress or continuing.

And.

And then they'll know that you're still getting hours.

And then you could put in your experience details.

Something like, I can.

And by the time that we're looking at applications, they'll have 2,000 hours.

And then you can send in those updates later as well.

It's a little confusing until you get into doing that.

But yes, but it is okay to average your weekly hours because it's going to be difficult.

Like.

Like, there's no way to indicate that some weeks you work 40 hours and some weeks you work four hours.

And so really the only way to enter that is to figure out your total hours and then average it out so that it works.

And if you're off on your hours, Jennifer asked about if you're a little bit off.

Always undershoot versus overshooting.

So underestimate.

Okay, Let's move on.

I was a CNA at a rehab hospital.

I did not have a ton of hours.

Okay, do I have to wait.

Until I graduate to get patient care experience, work as an MA at a derm office?

I.

You really don't have to wait to start getting experience.

It really just depends on your schedule and what you're able to find.

But if you can make it work and you can go ahead and start getting hours and you have an opportunity, go for it.

Like, definitely take advantage of any opportunities.

You have to get certified to get experience, to get your foot in the door.

Yeah, like, you definitely don't have to wait till you graduate.

Someone also asked, do schools prefer a variety or seeing one job in this case?

Like, I think it depends on the school, but I do think you've got to just look at your timeline.

Like, if you're an undergrad and you're staying at the same, like, position for a long time, I think that is reasonable because they're probably, like, working with you on schedule and stuff.

But let's say you.

You're done, you've graduated.

And I'll use my friend Taylor, who used to be my medical assistant, as an example.

So she worked as a derm MA for, I think, six years before she applied to PA school.

And one of the feedbacks that she got from two different places was that they wanted her to have some primary care experience.

And they were like, you know, we don't necessarily mean quit your job, but like, get some shadowing, see if you can do some volunteering to make sure that you have seen something other than your specialty.

So I do think if you've been somewhere for a couple years, if you feel like you've learned everything there is to know there and you're, you know, kind of just going through the motions at that point and not progressing your knowledge or your skill set, it may be time to move on to a different setting or a different specialty to show PA schools that you're really trying to become as well rounded as possible before you apply.

I had 250 hours when I applied with plans to try to get a job, to get more, but that didn't happen because I got in and nowhere wanted to hire me.

Okay, so if you have questions about how to get patient care experience during a pandemic with no license or certification, this is a great time to get certified.

So if you can find somewhere where you can get, get experience, get a certification if you can do it online.

Right now we have a list like a search engine on the PA platform that kind of helps you find certification in your area, like programs.

And so I think the links in there, Emily, if you want to put it in the chat, but that would be a really great place to start to see if there's any CNA or EMT classes near you or MA classes, whatever you can find, scribing.

Usually they'll train you on the job.

I just don't think like medicine has still gone on even with the pandemic.

And even though there have been times where there are shutdowns, like there's still a need for, for people.

And there are a lot of people who left their jobs and aren't going back.

And so, you know, keep looking for opportunities, keep looking for jobs.

You can do COVID testing, vaccinating, volunteer.

I know, I'm in Georgia and they're like begging for volunteers, medical and non medical, to help with getting vaccines out.

So really like keep looking for opportunities, be proactive.

They're not going to fall in your lap.

Like you've got to really search them out.

It's probably going to take some research and being diligent to really find those opportunities, you know, when it comes to getting.

So the next question is getting PCE without a long certification.

Check your state rules first.

Some states will let you work in certain positions without being certified.

In Georgia, you not have to be certified to be a medical assistant.

And like, almost none of my medical assistants have ever been certified because usually they're pre health students.

And some offices love to hire pre health students.

So if you can, let them know, like call offices, send a resume, send a cover letter, let them know what your plans are, and it may be that they are willing to bring you on and train you because they know you're going to be motivated.

Like, I have a new MA right now who is starting PA school in May.

She started, I guess she started like in September.

She's not that new, but she like literally within a week was up and running and teaching the other MAs who've been there for years how to do stuff on the computer.

And like, she's awesome.

So like, I know that you guys have that drive and that passion and you're intelligent and you are going to be really, you know, really great employees.

And so, I mean, I definitely think it is.

I mean, there are a lot of opportunities out there.

I've had, I've heard some concerns about like not being able to work because of family members or all that.

And, and that's fine.

You may just have to realize that your path is going to look different and it may take you longer to get to where you want to be.

Like, schools aren't going to say like, oh, we understand when there are plenty of applicants who have hours and who have what they need to apply.

I hope that makes sense.

Okay, I just saw a question pop up.

Someone said I was an MA for six years in derm.

If I was to shadow a PA in psych, oncology and ortho, would that be okay to show them I'm aware about other specialties other than derm, I think that would be helpful.

But most PA programs want to see some type of primary care experience, whether that's shadowing or working or volunteering.

But like, PAs are primarily trained as generalists and so they want to know that you have that background as well.

Okay.

So yeah, so look for things that will hire you and train you on the job.

So things like medical assistant, scribe, patient care experience.

Here, let me put the search engine in there.

Here it is.

Oh, Emily's got it.

Nevermind.

Okay, and then CNA is probably going to be the quickest certification.

Next after that is probably going to be emt and then probably medical assistant slash paramedic.

It just depends.

Yes, thank God.

Family.

I completely agree.

She like keeps me in order.

Okay, so how do hours work after applying some schools to look like when we were looking at that Cornell website, Some schools will say by the time you apply, your hours need to be completed.

Some say by the time you matriculate, which means you would start the program.

So that's definitely something to kind of look for when you're going on those program websites.

And then somebody also asked, how would I explain that I work in one unit, but sometimes I float to another unit?

That is a perfect thing to put in experience details so that you can really go into depth about, you know, primarily I work on the surgical floors, but every once in a while I work on oncology floors.

And then go into details about what you learned there.

Okay.

Someone also said they see jobs that only require experience and want at least one year.

What do you recommend?

I would say apply any and let them know that you're pre health, that you're pre pa. Schools are jobs like that.

And this is something you're going to run into later on as a PA because you'll see jobs for MPs.

And I always recommend applying to NP jobs anyway.

I did.

And I think it's, you know, you have to educate them on how PAs and MPs are the same, but that's something you'll face in the future.

But with jobs, you know, just apply, be passionate, be persistent, and really let them know that you are going to be a hard worker.

And sometimes that'll help you get your foot in the door.

Okay, how do schools validate PCE hours?

Usually they don't, first of all.

So they typically are not going to checked on your hours.

They're going to, you know, go by what you say and take that on the honor system.

The times when that's not going to be the case is if there's a discrepancy in either your resume or your hours or some kind of issue, something in your personal statement or supplementals.

But if they do need to validate, they will contact your program or your supervisor directly and whoever you list on there and ask them to either clarify or talk about your experience to make sure that you are being truthful or whatever in what you put on your application, kind of verify it.

Should you start putting your patient care hours into caspa if you're not applying this cycle, is that not possible?

It is possible.

I don't really recommend saving everything in caspa.

They it, it technically should roll over, but there's also a chance that it may not.

And so I would save it in something like the Excel document or somewhere else where you know it's going to be safe.

Okay, let's talk about shadowing.

Moving on from patient care and healthcare.

Even though I know there are, like, questions.

All right, I'm actually gonna show you all an email I got of someone asking to shadow that was like the perfect shadowing.

Asking to shadow email.

So online shadowing, virtual shadowing.

Let's talk about this first.

And I see some questions coming up in the chat about it.

So this has really become a thing during COVID because people couldn't shadow regularly.

And so here's the problem to me, virtual shadowing, and I've done some, like, day in the life sessions.

It's not like the real thing.

It's nothing like the real thing.

You can go back and listen to all of my podcasts with PAs and technically call that virtual shadowing, if that's what we're calling it.

But you're not seeing that interaction.

Like, to me, the important part about shadowing is seeing how PA interacts with patients and how they interact with everyone else and their physician.

And so, like, yes, I understand that, like, right now, that's all we can do.

But it's not a substitute for in person shadowing.

So that's why some schools are accepting it, some aren't.

As far as the certificates, I don't think they really matter or carry any weight.

You don't get a certificate when you really shadow at all.

And so, like, to me, that's kind of silly to do, but, like, I mean, it's fine.

I just don't know that it'll actually mean anything like a digital certificate.

But that's fine.

Like, it's fine and it's definitely great learning opportunities.

I'm planning on doing some more, but, like, for our sessions, we will never offer a, like, a certificate or proof that you were there.

I can't even prove that you were there the whole time, and so I can't validate that for you.

All right, Asking to shadow.

Is there etiquette for how long you should ask or keep asking to shadow a PA for?

Absolutely yes.

So when you are initially approaching a PA to shadow them, be courteous and be flexible.

And as someone just asked, should you build a relationship with someone before shadowing or is it okay to just ask them?

It depends on the situation.

But I would say, like, building a relationship can be really helpful, even if you're like, hey, can I just talk to you on the phone?

Can I pre Covid.

Take you to coffee or lunch?

Something along those lines.

And here I'm just going to show you this example of someone who asked me who, like, I was so impressed by this email.

I thought it was so good.

If I can find it.

Okay, let me put this up.

Okay.

Can you all read that?

I hope so.

Okay, so this person emailed me recently and they said, good evening, Pac Perry, which y' all can call me Savannah, like, and if you email me this, I'm gonna email you back, but my name is so and so and I'm an undergraduate student at blah blah, Straight to the Point tells me a little bit about them but brief, which is great.

I had the pleasure of meeting you last year when you spoke at one of our pre PA Student association meetings and listened in on a few of your virtual shouting sessions.

I'm very grateful for providing these awesome opportunities to learn.

I am so thankful when y' all say kind words to me.

But, like, you don't have to, but like, pas.

And I think people just in general are going to appreciate, like, you being courteous and like, kind to them when you are approaching them.

So, like, if they, let's say they work in orthopedics, maybe say something about how you're really interested in orthopedics or whatever.

If it's somebody that you.

I saw somebody asking about somebody like your primary care pa. Tell them how impactful they've been on you, like, you were part of the reason I've decided to become a pa, whatever, but you can tell them those things.

What I really appreciate about this is, is how direct it is and how short.

I have gotten emails that are like a full page or two pages long before they ever get to the point.

And it's just a lot.

So keeping it short is great.

Going on.

As I'm applying to PA School this April.

I'm hoping to enhance my application by gaining more shadowing experience, which has been difficult due to the COVID 19 observation restrictions.

I'm reaching out to you to inquire.

I don't know why that's there.

If you would be willing to allow me to observe at your office once these restrictions are lifted.

I understand that you're very busy, so this is not possible.

Would you happen to know of any other PAs in the area who might be interested?

Thank you so much for your time.

Like, this is such a professional, kind email, which, again, like, I appreciate so much.

I have also gotten Emails that call me Dr. Perry, which I am not.

I've had phone messages that call me Dr. Perry.

And so like that to me shows that that person has not really researched what their messaging be about.

I've had emails that just say, hi, I'd like to shadow you for 80 hours.

Can you tell me when I can come to your office?

I don't even think I responded to that one.

Like, it was just so, like you just don't want to be abrasive and you don't want to be assumptive in your emails.

I've actually had a couple recently too, where back when we were doing shadowing, they emailed and asked about shadowing and I said it's happened on two separate occasions.

And I get that, like you're very eager, but from a PA perspective, I don't know you, I don't know who you are.

I don't know how you're going to be around my patients.

It's hard to bring somebody else in, especially in what I do.

My patients are naked.

Like 50% of them have no clothes on.

And they don't really want me in the room.

They also don't really want another body in the room, especially a student.

So, you know, it's hard.

You know, I'm putting a lot of trust in people to come into my office.

So somebody like this, I would expect them to be professional and be really excited about.

So another.

So two people recently who've emailed me, I said basically, like, you know, I'm there on Mondays and Tuesdays.

Is there like, tell me a morning or an afternoon where you could come because usually if I haven't met you, I'm gonna have you come for a morning or an afternoon once.

And if I like you and you are nice and professional, I will invite you back.

I'm not going to tell you that in my email, but I'm just going to say, you know, tell me a morning or afternoon so I can, can plan for that.

So one of the people emailed back, which if this is you, it's okay.

But one of the people emailed back and said, well, can I come Monday through Thursday?

I'll shadow you the first two days and the other PA the other two days.

And then the other person said, can I come every Tuesday for a month?

And so, yeah, so both those people I emailed back, I was like, no, tell me like a morning or afternoon.

The other problem is there's a demand.

Like I have people, like people I've been talking to for months.

Now asking to shadow.

And so I'm gonna try to spread the love as much as I can whenever we're able to do that again.

So someone says, how long should we continue to ask a PA to shadow for without being overburied?

You're gonna have to fill out the situation.

So I would say for a first encounter, like, try to ask for like half a day or a day.

Don't assume they're gonna let you come for a week.

And also from a PA perspective, to have extra people, it kind of slows us down, to be honest, which is okay.

But like, my patient and their time is my priority over teaching someone else.

And so, you know, that's something you have to consider too, is they're going to be taking that into account when they're deciding, like, when you can shadow and things.

So I would try to get your foot in the door, start to establish that relationship, build that relationship, and then if that PA feels inclined, they're probably going to invite you back after you've had that shadowing opportunity.

I think it's great to send a thank you follow up and say, you know, I would.

I really enjoyed my time.

I would love to shadow you again in the future.

Please let me know if there are any opportunities.

And then they are going to, you know, do with that what they will and what they feel comfortable with.

So I hope that doesn't come off as too harsh.

But I think this is just like a touchy subject.

And it's like, you can very quickly turn someone off if you come across as too abrasive or, like, entitled from your first encounter.

So, okay, let's talk a little bit about shadowing etiquette.

And especially during COVID right now, and someone asks, is there a specific way we should dress?

I would say it does depend if you have the opportunity to ask ahead of time.

Like, definitely ask when in doubt, like, if they don't tell you or you're not sure, I would go business casual and probably try to bring a backup pair of scrubs either in your car or your bag, if possible, just in case.

And ideally, like, a neutral color, blue, black, navy would be great.

So etiquette, especially right now, during COVID if you are able to shadow right now, 100, wear your mask the entire time, even if the people don't.

That is something that we experienced lately.

Someone shadowing somebody else in my office.

And this person who came in, like, kept taking her mask off, which, you know, we as an office are around each other a lot.

I wear my mask all the time.

But some of the people in my office do not.

And so I think this person shadowing felt very comfortable in taking hers off.

But like me as a provider, like she wasn't shadowing me, but like it made me uncomfortable.

And so I would say like definitely wear your mask.

Ask them for specifics.

Ask them if they need you to get tested or if they need any information beforehand, if that is a concern.

Or they're probably gonna let you know.

But you know, just right now especially, and if you have any inkling that you have been exposed to Covid, aren't feeling your best, any symptoms at all, do not go into that office because you are introducing a huge liability for them.

And so just, you know, use caution with that because that could end up bad.

Okay, Let's move on to volunteering.

Okay, so where some people have questions about where to put like certain volunteering.

So like an unpaid internship for college credit, you could put that under volunteering and you'll indicate that it was for academic credit.

Someone else said, unpaid volunteer work in a medical setting.

So with that, like if you're doing patient care, but it was volunteer, I would probably put that under patient care experience and then indicate that it's a volunteer status.

I'll show you what this looks like in a second.

But you have some freedom and some leeway in where you put your experience.

So someone else said, you know, I was working as a teacher, but then I had these other experiences where I was working with certain students and with organizations, would that be leadership instead?

So you could separate it.

You could have some of that be leadership and some of it be teaching.

And then someone said, I was a preceptor at work.

Is that leadership or teaching?

It's how you describe it.

If you feel like you were in a leadership role and you want to describe it like that, it's leadership.

If you feel like you were teaching and you want to describe it as teaching, it was teaching.

So there, there are definitely some gray areas where you get to decide, but there's not.

You can't double dip.

You can't put under both the same hours under any category.

So you can separate them, but you cannot use them for both.

Alright.

Should volunteer experience be up to date?

I would say as much as possible.

So if it's been a while since you volunteered, I do think it would be helpful to try to continue to get some volunteer experience.

The purpose of volunteering is so that schools can see that you are committed to your community and to the underserved.

If you look at a lot of mission statements, they focus on helping others and so try to do the best you can to continue to look for opportunities to volunteer, even if it's just once a month, like something small and it doesn't have to be medically related.

Is there an ideal amount of volunteer hours to have before applying?

Not necessarily.

Some schools will say that they have a certain requirement, others will not, even if they really do.

So I don't think there's necessarily an ideal amount.

I think it's more about consistency and doing something over a period of time versus hours.

Like it's better to volunteer once a month for three years than to do 50 different one time events.

Trying to really try to spread that out.

Okay, I have some questions.

I see a lot of questions.

Hold on.

If I volunteer at a hospital, would that count as hce?

Probably depends on what you're doing.

Would being a sitter, watching patients under legal holds count as hands on experience?

It would probably be hit or miss.

Would volunteering in your church community count?

Sure.

Most of my volunteering was through my church and my.

What's it called, campus ministry.

In college.

Is it frowned upon to use a letter of rec from a PA student?

I would not do a letter from a student.

Is volunteering at an animal shelter acceptable?

Definitely.

You should, like, your volunteering should show something you're interested in.

And so that's a great thing to do with volunteering in your sorority count.

Yes, for sure.

Okay, let me go back up.

All right.

Can I apply the volunteer hours that I will be doing for my RN to the PA application?

So, I mean, if you're volunteering in general, you can add it.

I don't know if you're talking about like clinical hours.

Some schools will count rotations or clinical hours and some will not.

Usually the experience that's most relevant is college and forward, not from high school.

Unless it is significantly medically or healthcare related.

A gym, daycare.

That's probably not going to be patient care hours.

That's not patient care.

I feel like I'm gonna have to like a massive blog post about all this because I know I'm not gonna get to all of your questions and I feel so bad.

Okay, let's go in to.

Okay, I already talked about that.

I want to show y' all some examples and we have all of your questions that we have missed and I will work on putting those in a blog post because I know there's a lot.

And last week on the podcast, I answered questions or I guess I Did grades in gpa.

I didn't do experience.

So I'll do another one on more experience questions.

Where's my thing, My presentation?

Okay, here it is.

Okay, I want to show examples of what experience details look like.

So when you're in caspa, this is what it's going to look like.

So you will put the experience type, healthcare experience, the recognition type.

This is going to be compensated, non compensated academic credit volunteer.

You'll put all like whatever type it is, your title, your employer and your supervisor info here.

The date, full time, part time, whatever hours per week, total weeks, number of hours and then your description on permit to contact.

I typically do recommend putting yes, unless you do not have the contact information and if that is the case, try to explain it in this experience details.

You get 600 characters here to put whatever you want.

So for this one she put responsible for checking patients in upon their arrival to the dermatology office and verifying insurance upon checkout.

Collected co pays from patients.

Assisted in the organization and management of a physician's schedule.

Communicated with patients on a daily basis.

Responsible for the organization and filing a medical document such as pathology reports and prior authorizations.

I was promoted from this position to medical assistant.

So this is good.

Like I would give this like a B. I think there could be some more details about like what she learned from this situation and from that experience.

Like instead of just saying communicated with patients on a daily basis, I would say like learn to communicate effectively with patients on a daily basis.

And like instead of responsible for the organization and filing a medical document, I would say became efficient at filing medical documents and not understanding but developed organization for pathology reports and prior authorizations.

Like making it more personal and more of like an action and something you learned.

Like and so we'll look at more examples.

But the more that you can be descriptive the better.

Let me check in paragraph or bullet point is fine.

Whichever one you do, be consistent.

I don't know that it gives you an option for email.

I can check in a second.

Okay, so this one is patient care experience.

So this is an example where it shows that it is current.

The total hours per week, total weeks.

Currently I'm a medical assistant for a PA in a dermatology office responsible for obtaining patients medical history and recording the history of presenting illness for patients.

So it does not have to be like full sentences by the way.

Like it's fine to use snippets like this and abbreviate.

We edit a lot of experience details and so like we can definitely work on cutting them down if that's something you need help with.

But responsible for preparing the patient for examination by a PA by performing a review of systems and explaining to the patient office procedure.

Assist the PA with skin biopsies and excisions.

Responsible for contacting patients with pathology results and explaining different treatment plans.

Trained to perform extract laser treatments, blue light treatments, and chemical peels on patients.

So that's cool because it's like, tells actual skills which definitely fulfill that patient care part and what they're able to do.

Like, I still think there could be, like, more here about learning to function as part of a team and how to like, conflict resolution with patients or with a team trying to insert, like, some strengths and skills that will stand out versus just listing out what you did.

And then this is a shadowing one.

So shadowed a PA on the burn unit ICU step down floor.

Observed how PA manages several patients in a hospital setting with a variety of injuries from burn students.

That's good.

Like saying what you saw.

Assisted with a wound dressing change.

Observed a burn skin graft surgery.

I'm not a huge fan of putting like, specific, specific medical stuff you saw because I don't think that's really the purpose here.

Attended daily meeting with PA supervising physician, physical therapists and nursing staff.

During this meeting, individual patient care was discussed among the various providers.

Observed how a PA manages patient care along with other providers as well.

So that's more of what I want to see, like seeing that PA interact with other providers.

She had another one that said, observed how a paper can practice autonomously in a clinic.

So really showing that you've learned things about the PA profession in those experiences.

And let me see if any of these have.

Yeah, these all just have phone numbers.

I don't see anything for email.

One other interesting thing she did that I liked was even though that healthcare experience and patient care was at the same time place, she used different supervisors.

So one she used like the office manager and one she used the physician.

And so I think that was interesting because that, like, gives you almost like double validation if they needed it, which I thought was good.

So.

Okay, I know y' all have a ton of questions, and I feel like we could actually talk about this for probably like four or five hours.

But I feel like also I'm losing voice.

So I promise that we will.

I will put together a blog post.

I think you should all get the replay and I have your emails, so I'll make sure that that gets out to you.

But I will put together a blog post in the next couple weeks with answers to all the questions you put in the chat and links and examples and things.

And then if we need to do another patient care Q A, we will or thing.

But I hope this was helpful and not confusing and not stressful.

But if it was too stressful, let me know.

But I hope to see you at the Personal Statement one in February and we can talk about that more.

And yeah, I'll keep answering questions on Instagram and everywhere else and hopefully try to clarify things.

I feel like I muddy the water sometimes, but all right, thanks guys for tuning in and I'll see you all next.