In this insightful episode of The One Small Change Podcast, Yvonne McCoy welcomes digital marketing expert Frank Buddenbrock to dive deep into the evolving landscape of being found online. Together, they explore the concept of Answer Engine Optimization (AEO), the importance of staying relevant in digital marketing, and the practical steps entrepreneurs must take to ensure that their services and content are visible in a rapidly changing environment. With actionable tips, real-world stories, and a mindset focused on experimentation, this episode delivers essential strategies for anyone looking to boost their online presence.

Guest Bio:

Frank Buddenbrock is the founder of a longtime digital marketing agency with 20 years of experience helping businesses get discovered online. With a background that stretches back to the pre-Google era, he’s an expert in website development, ad management, SEO, and marketing innovation. His entrepreneurial spirit drives his passion for teaching others how to adapt, stay visible, and thrive in the fast-changing world of online search.

Chapters:

00:00 "Small Changes, Big Impact"

04:07 Desert Survival Skills Dilemma

08:06 "Visibility and Staying Relevant"

11:31 Evolving Search Habits and Queries

13:26 "Curiosity-Driven Questioning in Messaging"

17:11 "Girl Scouts, Marketing, and Dad"

20:29 "Creative Email Strategy Insights"

25:50 "Scaling Google Ads Effectively"

29:36 "Learn, Connect, and Grow"

31:10 Entrepreneurship Is an Experiment

Quote from the Guest:

“But the point is, you still need to market. It doesn’t matter what you do, what you offer… even the big guys, the Fords, the Apples, the Microsofts, the Verizons of the world, they are running ads constantly. And there’s a very good reason why they do that.”

Link:

Receive a free AEO Assessment by sending an email to [email protected] with the subject line: AEO Assessment

Welcome everybody to The One Small Change. And as always, I

am so thrilled that you are spending your time with me today. And

we are going to embark on a journey of exploration and

transformation. And I'm your host, Yvonne McCoy, and I bring almost

30 years of entrepreneurial experience. And I have a passion

for discovering growth through the power of seemingly

small change. And I want to thank you again for— I know

your time is important, so I want to thank you again for coming,

and I do this because I want to share with you

people that I think will help you grow your business. And this week

we are talking with Frank Buddenbrock and

he is going to share with you how his story,

how his life made a change in what he does that makes

him really good at what he does. So

Frank, thank you for being here. Thank you for

sharing with my audience. Um, I know they're going to get

a fistful of— what a weird thing to say, a

fistful. They're going to get a handful. I think

we're all in fight and flight right now. You're going to get a

handful of information that is really going to help you grow your business.

So tell us what you do and take it away.

Sure. Again, Frank Budenbrock. I have a digital marketing

agency for the last 20 years. We do pretty much everything

and anything it takes to promote a business online, and that could be

anything from website development to social media

management. A lot of the work that we do now is, of course,

Google and Facebook ads management, and then search

engine optimization, and now the new AEO, or

answer engine optimization. We also do a lot

of email marketing campaigns for clients because Once we've

driven someone to your website, you need to follow up with them.

It's rare that they're going to have just an impulse

buy, unless you're an e-commerce site, let's say. But if you've got a service or

product that they want to do some research on, they're going to

have to be educated and entertained and engaged.

And, you know, you have to tell them why you have the best solution to

the problem they're trying to solve. So before you go, before you go

any further, because I'm not, you know, an

expert in any of that, I've never heard of— what did you call it?

Answer? Answer Engine Optimization, or

AEO. Uh-huh. I don't even know what that means.

Yep. Well, you're not alone. A lot of people are

seemingly unfamiliar with it, though you've probably seen it every day of the

week. Now, when you do a search for something,

if you do a Google search for something, Google is going

to return a page, what's called a search engine results

page or a SERP. And at the very top of that page now,

Google puts their AI overview. And

that has a, like a summary,

but it's at the top of the page and it's called the AI overview.

And what that is, is the answer to the question that

you've just asked in the Google search bar. I do. I saw that

today. Yep. And so now the goal

is to make sure that your product or your service, your

business is one of those companies mentioned in that

paragraph. And that's what the new answer engine

optimization is all about, because most people now are

finding the answer that they want there. And they're no longer scrolling

down, so they're rarely seeing your ads. They're rarely seeing your

website listed as one of the search results. So

it's a, it's a very big deal. It's really changed the world of

search. Well, you know, one of the things, one of the

reasons I was really interested in having you come on was because

we share something in common, and that is Be Found.

So tell us your story and why you're good at helping people be found.

Well, sure. Years ago, actually before the

internet was what it is today, before Google was the search engine

of choice, I was the president of the Southern California Land Rover

Club, and we used to do a lot of exploring in the Southern

California area, and that included things like Death Valley and the Mojave

Desert. And it dawned on me that I should have somebody teach our

members desert survival skills 'Cause there are times

when you're out there in the desert and something can happen to your car, something

completely not your fault, something you didn't do, but you may have a

catastrophic failure in your vehicle. You're out in the desert and now what

do you do? You're miles from the nearest road and what

are you gonna do to survive? But again, this is way before the

internet and trying to find that person, somebody to teach

my members desert survival skills, was virtually

impossible. I mean, they don't list themselves in the White Pages, if you

remember those, or the Yellow Pages, if you remember those.

And it was very difficult to find that person. But I

heard about this thing, the internet, or the World Wide Web, as we called

it back then. And I thought, well, maybe there's a website

where that person might have listed themselves, some kind

of a directory. And I, I searched high and

low and couldn't find that person. And so I thought, well, you know

what, there should be a website where you can find experts in any

field. And so I decided I would build that website,

and it was called findanexpertonline.com.

And it took me quite a while to build it.

WordPress didn't exist, Wix didn't exist, none of

these platforms exist back then. You had

to do things like Joomla for the directory part. I had to use

a program called phpMyDirectory, and back then

they barely could talk to each other. It was impossible to get them

to integrate. Things like YouTube didn't

exist back then, and trying to get an interview or a podcast like

this again was very, very difficult. There was no delivery

method back then. Nevertheless, I decided to make this

directory. I did, and I started having experts

subscribe or be members in this directory. And I

tried to find one of my own experts doing a search,

and I couldn't find them. And I said, well, that's not going to work. I

can't charge these people money to be in my directory and then not have them

be found. So I found out that there's this thing called

search engine optimization. And I read both books

at Barnes Noble on the subject at the time. I took

a couple classes at UCLA and one at UC Santa

Barbara. I put all this information together, made my own recipe for

search engine optimization, and applied it to my own website. And

then sure enough, there I am on the first page after about 5

months. Actually, it took quite a while.

So, um, back then Google again was not the search engine of choice. We had

things like AltaVista Ask

Jeeves, uh, AOL, uh, yep, and Dogpile. I always found that one to be kind

of curious. But then finally Google came along

and, uh, superseded everybody. They really came in

with a phenomenal algorithm and set

the standard. And so now all the other search engines at

that time anyway would just license the data that Google was

collecting. And that made the job a whole lot easier. So, and

then— I'm sorry, finish, finish. Yeah,

so, uh, in that process of building my website and doing the

search engine optimization, as the internet started ramping up, it

also dawned on me, hey, people are going to have websites and they're

going to want to have them found, and the way to do that is through

search engine optimization. And so that's how I started the

digital marketing agency that I have today. So there are a couple

of things. Some of these are kind of high level, but the first thing I

think is, and this is what I believe as

well, is people, you know, people

need to be found. You can have the best product, you can have the best

service, the best process, the whatever, but if nobody

can find you, it doesn't matter. So that's the

first thing. The second thing that I think you hit on kind

of unintentionally is The way to be

found is constantly changing. So

if you were doing something that, you know, you used to come up and, you

know, ask Jeeves, that's not going to help you now. So you have to

stay relevant. And I think as entrepreneurs, that's probably one

of the biggest mistakes that we make,

is that we think we fixed a problem and then we don't look at

it again. Do you know, you know, I— and one of the things

that I say all the time is people are practicing to be perfect, practicing

to be perfect, practicing to be perfect, and when they think

they finally nailed it, that thing doesn't exist

anymore. So you gotta be imperfect and jump in right

away. And then I think the third thing— there was a third

thing— so you got to be found, you got to be found in

relevant places, and I don't remember the

third one, but it'll come to me. So go ahead. You know,

yeah, no, you're absolutely correct. We tell

clients it's not a set it and forget it situation at

all, especially with the internet. I mean, literally

Google changes things almost on a daily basis. I mean, it is, it is a

moving target, you know, and it, it makes it interesting, makes

it frustrating. But it keeps us on our

toes, keeps it very fresh in our minds, you know, and

what worked maybe next week doesn't work this week, you

know, the paradigm changes all the time. And now,

like I said, with the AEO, 6 months ago

that barely existed, but, you know, a week ago

it's now very, very, very much at the

top of people's conversation. What, what, what would you

say are the other misconceptions that people have

about being found on the internet or in internet

marketing? Well, I think a lot of it, again, for being

relevant, that's very important. Now with the

AEO, it's all about answering the questions that people have.

So now the process, rather than just targeting

specific keywords, right, if you just had a particular keyword that you

were targeting, and hoping that people would type that in

and your page would come up on that first page of results. Now

the thing is that people are answering questions, answering questions, or asking

questions. They're much longer phrases, you know, what is the

best project management software? You know, so it's a whole

question. And so now the challenge is making content on your

site that literally has that exact question maybe in

the title tag, maybe at the H1 tag or the title of that

page, and then answering that exact question through the content of

your page. So that's, that's very, very

critical. So this never dawned on me, but

it— so for instance, we used

to say, give me management software,

give me management you know, what's some management

software? And now we're asking more to get

a qualitative answer, like give me the top

10 or give me the best. I never thought

about that before because I actually, I mean, and

it's funny because I did a search today. I wouldn't even tell you what it's

on because it's really weird, but I went in and

I originally put in the phrase of the

thing And then I was like, that's not really— I mean, I, you know, that's

not really what I want. What I really want is this. And so it's a

much longer question. So that's an interesting thing because I think

some of us— there are some ideas that I

think we are attached to, like you have to have the right

hashtag, you have to have the right words, you have to— but it

again, it's evolving. Oh, yeah. Very

much. And I think a lot of it is driven by the

smartphone. One's on my desk here somewhere, but because it's

now going to mobile, right, on your smartphone, and

people don't want to necessarily type in an entire

question, so now they're using voice search. And that's how

Google is seeing where the intent is. So people are no longer

just typing in project management software., but

now they're using their voice command and they're asking Siri

or Google, you know, what is the best project management software I can find

for my company? Well, nobody's going to type that in, but now that you can

do it by voice, now that phrase is an entire question,

right? Or a whole sentence rather than just targeting

a keyword. And I think a lot of that has come from that

ability to do. That type of search. And, and I think maybe, you

know, again, this is my opinion, but You know, one of the

changes that I've been making is to ask

a question, you know, because I think people—

there's a curiosity factor, right? You know, and if

the question, you know, is one that it's like, oh, I had that thought before,

you know, and the same thing, you know, part of when

I'm working with clients, I tend to have them

start with what's the situation that your client is in

instead of like, do you find yourself, you know, that this is happening and this

this is happening, versus I am so-and-so, I do this, this,

and this, I've taken many courses, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, because they

don't care, right? You know, if you, if you're not going to deal with the

issue that I have, what do I— why do I need to listen, you know,

any further? And what you're telling me is that that lesson

is true for the internet as well, right?

Right. And, you know, the big difference between just doing a search and getting

a result in the answer engine optimization is that if you type

something in and you just do a search, for example, Google is just going to

say, here are 10 results and your answer is probably in one of

those 10, right? But now with the answer engine optimization and

that AI overview at the top of the page, they're saying, here's

the answer that you have and I'm certain of it. So you don't have to

start looking around for things. My wife has given up on Google.

She just does ChatGPT. That's her search engine. And

she'll ask that question, you know, where, where can I find

the best recipe for sourdough bread? You know, and then

boom, here, that AI overview is going to present the answer

to that question, or at least citations or sites

that she could visit that have that answer.

So she doesn't have to filter through all those 10 different search

results. To try and find the answer because a lot of them are advertisements, a

lot of them are not very

relevant. So here, boom, just saves so much time and

aggravation too. What other things are we doing? Do

we have misconceptions about or.

Doing wrong? Well, again, I think the set it and forget it, that's probably one

of the biggest problems that we see. Even

with, again, going back to the search engines or even the answer

engine optimization, those algorithms, they want to see

fresh content. So you need to, even if you've got a blog post from 5

years ago, you can go in there and refresh it, right?

Depending on your, your market or your industry, probably things have changed in the last

5 years. It could be last 1 year for all I know, but

it's a wonderful opportunity to go in there and refresh your

content And then that improves your likelihood of being again one

of those search results that Google is going to present to answer

that question. When you say refresh, do you mean just

post something on it so it comes up, or do

you mean repurpose it? Well,

I would say, like I said, that there's probably new

information, right? So in the last 5 years, for example, there

may be a lot of innovations in software right

now. Software is functioning at a different level because of, because

of AI. So here's an opportunity for you to just— it doesn't have to be—

you don't have to rework the entire blog post or article, but you want to

give it some brand new information. And then now when the search engine

comes— update it. Update. Okay. Update

or refresh. Exactly. Because I have some posts that

I consider classic posts. You know, and so, and I

post them once a year, and each year I take a look at them

and see if the message is relevant, see if the call to action

still makes sense, do you know? And I just did one

of those recently. I always do one around the time Girl

Scouts are selling cookies, right? And the post is,

what does, what does Girl Scout cookies, my dad, and

marketing have in common? And it's, you know, when I was a Girl Scout,

my dad used— I was always the highest seller because my dad used to take

the cookies to work with him and he would let people have one

cookie for free. Right. And then when they came back, you know,

it's like they didn't know they need a cookie until they saw it.

Right. And when they came back, you go, oh, I have all these varieties

for sale. And that's kind of what we need to do. A lot of times

our people don't know what it is that they need. So,

you know, right. So that's good. I'm glad I'm doing that right.

So, yeah. And again, that kind of goes to the email marketing we were talking

about earlier too, because people have so much going on in

their life and you've got to be in front of those people, try and stay

top of mind, right? And show them that you have the best

solution to the problem they're trying to solve. So, so this is one

of the things that I see with clients a lot, and I know I

struggled with it. And it's like, I don't want to

fill somebody's inbox up. I don't want to post too many

times. I don't want to, you know. So, do you have any thoughts on that

or any suggestions? Yeah, I think a lot of

us think that we're that special, I guess, maybe that

maybe we shouldn't be in their inbox so much. But I don't know about

you, but I follow quite a few different

industry leaders across the board. I've probably worked with 100 different industries over

the years. And I'll subscribe to their newsletter. And I mean,

there are some of those gurus, if you will. I get

an email from them every single day, you know.

And if it's good, if it looks interesting, if the subject line catches my

attention, I'll open it and read it. Otherwise, it's just hit the

delete button, you know, and let it

go. But I think you still need to be in front of people.

I mean, you know, who doesn't know Apple? Who doesn't know Coca-Cola? Who doesn't

know Ford? But they're doing commercials every day, every day,

every day. So, you know, people get distracted,

have things going on in their life. And if you've got a

product or service to sell, you've got to stay. In front of those people. I

also think that, like you said, we've got

so much going on. But I, you know, I mean, a really simple

thing is You know, if you just send one post, by the time the person

decides they're going to read their email, you could be on the third page and

they never even see it. Exactly. You know, and

so I— the first thing that I say to

clients is be consistent. If you're going to send

your newsletter out on Sunday, then like I do, send it

out on Sunday and be consistent. So it's better not

to bite off bite more than you can chew. It's better to build up

so that you can stay consistent. And one of the

things that, you know, that I did, it was like, you know,

was I discovered I can resend the people who

didn't open. It's like, oh, they didn't open, so they didn't see it. So I

will, you know, I won't be bothering the other people. I will, you

know, but it, it, you know, I started out with

like, oh, twice a week seemed like a lot. And now I'm

up to at least like 5, really

every day but Monday, you know, but it's

a different variety of kind of things. So, you know, Sunday

is my newsletter, Friday is the

podcast, right? Tuesday and Wednesday are my posts, Thursday there's

a quote, you know, and, and so there's a variety of things

for people to look at and to see. And I've kind of saved

Monday as as when I have like a personal message that I

get, like, you know, yeah, my thought that I, you

know, that isn't necessarily, you know, it's

like one of the ones that I do is

this is political, you know, delete if

you're not. But when I get like, yeah, yeah. That

kind of thing. Yeah. Well, you're right on

about being consistent. 'Cause if they like your

stuff, for example, your Sunday newsletter, people are gonna

start looking forward to it if you're consistent, if they know, oh, okay, Yvonne's

newsletter comes on Sunday. Maybe at the end of the day after I've had

the weekend with the family or kids or friends, whatever, and I'm sitting in front

of the TV with my laptop or iPad, oh,

wonder what Yvonne's newsletter is today. And people will kind

of look forward to that. So being consistent is, is

really critical. One thing we found interesting when we— we've done quite a

bit of marketing for personal injury attorneys

and mostly on the Google Ads side of things, right? Because they want

to be there when people go looking for an attorney, right? So Google Ads is

one of the best ways to do that. But they also would like

to have blogs written for them again so that they can come up in

the search results because they've got constant fresh new content to

their website. And, you know, that's one of the things that we'll offer them as

one of the services. And they say, oh no, we'll take care of it. And

we go, okay, sure, right? So first month they're

right on, second month they're right on, third month

they're maybe a week late, and then by the fourth month it's done. It's almost

like a gym membership, you. Know, everybody's really gung-ho at the

first year. Yeah, but by, you know, by March you can find

a parking spot in that parking lot at the gym without. Any trouble at

all. So the other thing that I tell people

is, you know, rather than keep changing what you're doing and keep moving the

way that you're— you know, it's like the person that sees you on Monday and

goes, oh, I need to come back to this, or I need to find them

again, you've moved. I said it's like having a mobile store that you move every

day and sell something different. By the time they're ready that,

you know, you're doing something else, and so you're really

losing sales. Um, before we run out of time, there's one other thing I wanted

to ask you, and that had to do with— we

were talking about being

consistent, um, repurposing.

I know, I, I got it. Okay, I'm having these—

for the, you know, for those that are listening, you notice I'm kind of

glitchy lately. When should somebody start thinking, I'm ready

to pay.

For ads? Well, as soon as possible, really,

because the longer you wait, the more

opportunity your competitors have to come in and take those clients

away from you. But again, you

know, there are.

Money issues. Sure. And also, if you're— all right, so I always say you

have to have clarity about what you're doing. You have to be really

sure, you know, pretty, you know, clear about what you're doing,

because obviously if you're fuzzy about what you're advertising, your results are not going to

be good. And it's going to be— so there's a certain place, a certain timing

in your business that you go, okay, I've got some clients,

I got some cash coming in, I'm pretty clear about what

I'm doing. What are the things that people should start saying, or what should

they be aiming for to say, this is where I need

to get before, you know, I need to have a certain

amount of money to, to be able to

be out there enough to get results? Sure. I mean, running

one ad won't do it. No.

Yeah, you'd have to have a campaign. Well, again, it depends what's your, what's your

objective., right? Are you just looking to maybe have people sign up

for your webinar? That, that's one objective. If you've got a product

that you're selling, that's another objective. If you've got a service that you're

offering, maybe it's a brand new service or a twist on

an old service, then you want to get the word out there that this is

available for people. All right, so nice thing with— go ahead. So if we were

gonna— if we were trying to get people to sign up for a workshop.

Workshop or webinar. Mm-hmm. Yeah, again, if you've got a good

list, that's always a good thing for on the email side of things. But

what's nice too, with that email list, you can import that into your

Google Ads account and show Google these are people that we

want to target, and Google will now present those ads in

front of like people, right? So that, that's

a really nice feature that Google offers you to do that. The

nice thing with Google Ads or Facebook Ads is you can start small,

you can scale. You don't have to go out there and spend $5,000. You

know, you may not have that, it may not make sense. So you might

start out small at a $500 a month campaign

and see how your responses are and then scale it up,

right? As, as new leads come in, as money comes in, now you scale it

up and scale it up and scale it up. And then as long as it

keeps on working, you do that. And if it's not working, then you need to

go in and tweak things. You need to change maybe the offer that you

have. Maybe your, your headline isn't grabbing them. Maybe the landing page

that you're sending them to isn't converting because it's not

very compelling. So it's a whole process. It's not just the ad. For me, the

ad is just like the very first exposure

to a company, right? But now you bring them to a landing page, and that's

where you really get a chance to educate those folks. And show them why you

have the best solution to the problem they're.

Trying to solve. We're running out.

Of time. Okay, I got, I got into it, you know. So here's the thing,

we talked about a couple of things. One is, um, that

entrepreneurs can do. One is to be consistent. One is to

update and be relevant, you know, don't just set it,

you know, do it set it and leave it. Um, and

you've got a gift, so you haven't talked about that yet, so

let's do that. Yeah, if people are interested in how they

are appearing in that AI overview, I'm

offering a chance to have an

AIO— AEO assessment. So what you could do is email

me at frank@canyoufindmenow, and I'm sure you'll put it in the show notes

here. But they could email me with their URL

for their website and of course their name and maybe some of the keywords that

you'd like to be found for. And then

we'll do an AEO assessment to see

how your website is doing as far as answer engine

optimization is concerned. Guys, this is

a fabulous gift. If you're trying to build your business, I don't know why you

wouldn't do this. So, okay, here's where I'm going to put you on the spot.

When was the last time you did. Something new for

the first time? Oh, good question. Something new for

the first time. Well, you know, I like to, like

to cook, so I'm always looking at new

recipes. So I've come up with a

new recipe for lemon pound cake. My wife is

just enamored with lemon pound cake, so I've I've tried a new recipe.

I've got to tweak it. It's not perfect yet. So

I like to do that. I used to own a restaurant years ago

when I was much younger. Yeah, it was a submarine sandwich shop.

You are, you are

a multifaceted individual. My husband, my husband goes on YouTube all the time to

find, to find recipes. And so we eat really well. He's retired, so he

likes to cook too. So that's a good thing. All right. So I got to

do the ad before we run out of we run out of time. And so

I hope if you like this, everybody will take the time to

subscribe and to share the podcast and to engage with this

on social media. And the reason I did this was I meet

so many interesting people, and I want you to be able to learn

from them and supercharge your business and give you a chance to connect with

people that maybe you wouldn't have ordinarily have come up with. And it's

my way of giving back, and it's my, you know, my hope

that you will use the information to grow and

have impact. And so I hope that you will continue to join me on the

One Small Change. And, you know, as we go along, I'm making

changes, I'm learning things, and you, you know, I can't wait to

share it with you. The other thing is, if you have never listened to the

first episode or any of the Clarity

Check podcasts that I've done, you might want to do that too. So, Frank,

before we finish, Tell me, you know, your words of

wisdom. What are your, what are your, you know, a favorite quote or what you.

Want people to remember? Well,

if it's about business, you know, you really have

to concentrate on marketing. I think it

was what David Ogilvy said, you know, half the money

I spend on advertising is wasted. I just don't

know which half. And I've always found that fascinating. But

the point is, you still need to market. It doesn't matter what you do, what

you offer. As I said earlier, even the big guys, the

Fords, the Apples, the Microsofts, the Verizons

of the world, they are running ads constantly.

And there's a very good reason why they do that. So take

that to heart. The other thing that, not to jump on your last words,

but I think one of the things that's

really important is I think the best thing that ever happened to me

was learning that entrepreneurship is an experiment.

Do you know, you never, you never get closer to your goal until

you do something. And that doesn't mean, you know, and you learn from

your failures. And I think, and, you know, marketing, I mean, I think all

the time of like some of, you know,

Coke's big fiascos, you know. So if a really big company with a

big, you know, marketing department and stuff can make mistakes like that, I

shouldn't be surprised that I, you know, would make a mistake.

And you just, you know, and some of the best things you— some of the

best things that you learn come from just

taking action and seeing what the response is. You know,

because you want people to engage, you want people to respond to

what you're doing. Anyway, sorry, I got— yeah, that's one thing we do

all the time is test, test, test.

Because if nothing else, people just have advertising fatigue.

You know, after they've seen your ad 3, 4, 5, 10

times, they're kind of done. So now you have to come up with something else

so that they can stay interested in what you.

Have to offer. Variety, but with

a specific

focus. Absolutely. Okay, um, we're gonna have to cut this short.

Um, well, thank you. I have learned so much, so I hope everybody

that's listening to this has learned stuff as

well. And so what I want to remind you is that

change can be simple, but it isn't always easy. I

mean, it requires courage and resilience and a willingness to step outside

your comfort zone. I know for myself, if I don't

have some butterflies in my stomach, it means that I'm not, you know, I'm

not interested enough. So, you know, that's a good feeling. It's not

fear, it's excitement. So I hope you will continue to join me on the one

small change as we embark on this journey together. And until the

next time, stay very, very

curious. Bye, Frank. Thank you.