What is Perpetration-Induced Traumatic Stress (PITS)?

Moral Injury?

How are White people negatively impacted by racism, too?

In these shorter episodes, called “chute blocks,” Loran and Jenny explore the ideas and concepts which inform the work of The Spillway.

Mentioned in this episode:

The Spillway Community Guidelines

1. Engage sequentially. The show is a serial not episodic. We do this so we can build relation and find common ground and context. 2. We stay in our own lane. The Spillway is about White people talking to (predominately) White people about White people and White culture. We're not out here to critique anyone's actions but our own. 3. Our combined fabric of destiny. (3a) As Dr. King said, our humanities are deeply interconnected to each other. Racism negatively impacts me, too. (3b) The Spillway is one mechanism within a larger framework needed to sustain racial equity and justice. We're not a one-stop shop. 4. No one right way to liberation. We all share the same goals, but not every method works for every person. If this doesn't work for you. That's okay. Maybe it works for someone else.

Reservoirs and dams are these incredibly massive human made structures

that completely changed the ecosystem they're in for better and worse when

there's too much pressure on the dam or there's too much water that cannot

be contained in the reservoir or the dam, engineers must release this

excess water in a way that doesn't further impact its surrounding.

And the earliest dams simply had flood gates that would open it, releasing

the water and the water would shoot out of the flood gate at incredibly

dangerous speeds and pressure, destroying life and habitats downstream.

Just try to imagine wildlife, vegetation, or anyone trying

to live with water constantly hitting them at 83 miles an hour.

It's just not going to happen.

At the turn of the 20th century, spillways were invented to slow down

the incredible speed and pressure of the water as it was released from the dam.

Concrete control sections and discharge channels now guide this water out of

the dam while the water has to encounter these things called "chute blocks."

These chute blocks are strategically engineered and constructed

to absorb a tremendous amount of energy from the water.

This way, the water pressure does not destroy life downstream.

And translating the mechanics of us away into the Spillway as White people, we can

have a tendency to be a lot like water.

When we talk about race and racism..

Most of the time, we very rarely like to talk about race.

So these ideas, these experiences and behaviors, they reservoir inside of us.

And it builds pressure then because White people don't have any social structures

or supports to release this pressure.

The reservoir can overfill.

Worse yet when race and racism become part of everyday conversations through

events that spark national dialogues to individual exchanges that happen

in our homes and neighborhoods.

These flood gates can open decades and centuries of unarticulated, sentiments,

and sediment around shame and supremacy.

Unhealed trauma can come out of the dam at 83 miles an hour.

The Spillway exists in the attempt to co-construct control

sections and discharge channels with, and for other White people.

An organization, exclusively devoted to healing the intergenerational and

historical trauma and perpetration induced traumatic stresses of White

people without supremacy or shame.

And there's actual data and science behind the work that we do and

why we do the work that we do.

In what we're calling a "chute blocks," we've constructed shorter

episodes, where we explore the ideas, the mechanics, and the theories that

inform our work at The Spillway.

Let's continue on with a conversation about perpetration induced, traumatic

stress.

Are White people just traumatized.

And hurt and victims?

Are we just these things?

No.

I can tell you we're not acting in healthy ways and we're also not victims.

Like how else do we explain White culture or White people?

Do you think people who are mentally well or quote, "healthy," degrade other people?

Do you think emotionally intelligent people become more human when

they'd devalue another human's right

to exist?

No, probably not.

Right?

It's all about perspective.

Having been trained as a social worker, I approach my work

with trauma informed care.

Did the person who cuts you off in traffic do this because they absolutely

hate you and wanting to ruin your, you very specifically you, your day?

Probably not.

Right?

Maybe they're running late for work.

Maybe they're distracted by the kids in the backseat.

Maybe they didn't know their blinkers out and they believe they gave you

fair warning when they were merging.

We don't know what's going on in their world.

Outside of this brief interaction.

Yet we immediately jumped to conclusions.

The most common being they're an asshole, not they're being an asshole.

They are.

From the minute they wake up to the minute they go to bed.

They are an awful human being.

Trauma informed care says, "pump the brakes and imagine a world bigger

than what we immediately experience."

It requires that we hold multiple truths.

This isn't soundbite activism.

If you leave this episode or our work at The Spillway, believing that White

people are only one thing we ask that you expand your capacity for multitudes.

Right now, White culture isn't about nuance.

It's about either or thinking.

It's about one right way mentalities.

It's about perfectionism.

Our realities and lived experiences are far more complex, nuanced and flawed than

White supremacy and shame make space for.

Am I asking us to extend a little bit of empathy and compassion and

understanding to White people?

Yeah.

Who doesn't want a world with more of these things?

Have White people historically been afforded these things.

Absolutely.

But are White people currently being afforded these things?

And I think our answer can be found in the shared heart of cancel culture on the left

and conspiratorial culture on the right.

What I'm not asking you to do is to create excuses, defend, or

justify your actions or someone else's if or when racism shows up.

We're here to try to make sense of the bigger picture.

We cannot miss the forest for the trees.

I really wanted to say it this at the top of the episode, because so many

White people believe other White, people are just one thing: perpetrators.

And we do this without imagining or considering the environment or

the world that's needed to create

perpetrators.

Coined by Dr.

Rachel McNair in the titular book published in 2002 "perpetration

induced, traumatic stress or PITS looks at how creating harm and

trauma to others creates traumatic stressors within the perpetrator.

PITS is controversial because it asks our culture to see murderers,

rapists, executioners, and domestic abusers as human beings.

Historically, and currently

it's been much easier to name any of these individuals or groups of people

as inhuman, as animals, monsters.

As a them not part of an us.

As Dr.

McNair says, quote, "suggesting they're traumatized is suggesting

they might be human" end quote.

Suggesting they might be human implies they are capable of being complete,

complex, and nuanced human beings

that aren't static.

We don't have to like this fact, but we can't ignore it.

If we refuse to acknowledge that perpetrators are human, we don't allow

for the possibility that the unethical treatment could have been prevented.

The perpetrator needs support or healing or rehabilitation is possible.

And over the last 12 years, military psychology has looked into

quote, "moral injury" end quote.

Which this can often occur for combat vetrans.

Moral injury is the quote "lasting, psychological, biological,

spiritual, behavioral, and social impact of perpetrating, failing

to prevent or bearing witness to acts that transgress deeply held

moral beliefs and expectations."

End quote.

As trauma requires an inability to move beyond the traumatic event or a

"stuckness" as Resmaa Menakem calls it.

Two people can share an experience, but if one person gets mentally

or emotionally stuck in that experience, it turns into trauma.

Moral injury informs PITS.

20 years ago Dr.

McNair's work focused on PTSD.

Primarily used in the few decades, leading up to the new millennium.

And during this time, PTSD was almost exclusively utilized, to

understand the consequences of certain occupations, soldiers,

first responders, police officers.

However, over the last two decades PTSD has come to encompass the experiences

of some social identities in response to the traumatizing impacts of rape culture,

of White supremacy, or heterosexism.

And in the context of race and racism, many White people consistently

experience a moral injury.

What we do with this moral injury places us in a different dimensions

of shame or supremacy culture.

Some White people, want to avoid conversations of race and racism all

together, because it makes us feel bad when talking about race and racism.

There are White people who hyper fixate on race and racism

to maintain White dominance.

Uh, we see this in the great replacement conspiracy theory.

Some White people believe that nothing good comes from talking

about race and doing so only makes the problem worse for everyone.

Some White people are quick to point out race to silence, conversations of racism.

For example, "why do you have to make everything about race?"

Or "my stepdaughter is Asian.

So.

dot dot dot."

These four points, intrusive recollection, avoidance, negative connotations and

mood, and alterations and arousal and reactivity have been going on for

decades, centuries, even creating an enormous distress within White people.

We don't know what life would be like without them.

And yet all of these points are the criteria for textbook PTSD symptoms.

Do we, as individuals have PTSD around race and racism?

Yes.

And no.

Yes, shame and supremacy culture have made individuals do some

really regretful and heinous things.

These events and actions can and have created a level of stuckness for many

White people, unable to move past the pain that we've caused or bear witness to, or

feel like we've not been able to prevent.

And also because this form of stuckness has gone on for so long,

we've begun to understand it as nothing more than White culture.

In reality, so much of White culture is a trauma response.

A response to the pain and struggle as we were fleeing in

Europe, before we immigrated.

But also a response to the intergenerational trauma, our bodies hold.

A current and historical response and PITS we have from perpetrating failing

to prevent the violence of other White people or bearing witness, to acts against

people of Color that transgress deeply held moral beliefs and expectations.

As we know it today, White culture is built around PTSD and

responses to that traumatic stress.

Because PTSD symptoms are held within those who have the social power

to enact racist actions, *White people*: this becomes known as PITS.

A vast majority of White people hold perpetration induced, traumatic stress.

The primary intention of The Spillway is to help White people acknowledge

our individual and collective PITS find healing and build the White culture

that's not a tremendous trauma response.

But one of compassion, empathy, patience, and understanding.

The paradox of being White in America is that we are

simultaneously the perpetrators and the victims of race and racism.

And by exploring and understanding these stressors, we can know

our role as "victims" in quotes.

However, understanding that we hold these PITS helps us to know

our role as the perpetrator too.

So

we-- you talk a lot about in the first couple of episodes, um, about

how we are similar and different.

You and I.

One of the things that we differ on is the belief that everyone is redeemable.

I struggle with that.

Uh, you, you live it and embody it, but I, I struggle with that.

What do you struggle with?

Um, Well, I just don't, I just don't believe that necessarily.

I think there's people who-- and I think redemption hinges

on the person wanting it.

Right?

And I don't think everybody does.

Um, and so I don't believe that people, everyone is.

And that's one of the reasons I'm here.

Hmm

Because I w I want to try to understand that point of view more.

Um, also, you know, I also don't believe that there are good and bad people.

Like I don't, I don't believe that.

I think there's a wide variety of folks who are complex and

do things for complex reasons.

Um, But I also definitely stand-- stand in this camp of like, You know,

somebody will say something and I'll be like, "oh, okay, you're going to

be over there in that group for me."

Um, but also with PITS, it's hard because I know that I'm part of that, right?

Like, so having that grace for myself means I should have it for others.

And that's really hard.

I feel like both of the these mini-sodes are me being like, "no, it's hard.

I don't want

to!"

Um, yeah, that, and that's like, your whole thing is holding space for.

You know, perpetrators in quotes,

right.

holding that frustration.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it's hard to look into it and be like, oh, I'm part of that also.

That's difficult.

Well, the thing that I think makes it easier for me to access

it is the concept of moral injury.

That it is either perpetrating, failing to prevent, or even

just bearing witness to it.

That has an impact on me.

And I think that those last two:

failing to prevent and bearing witness.

And I think that those last two:

I think are how we talk a lot about race and racism today.

And I think that those last two:

We see these like microaggressions or we see these online comments that are rooted

And I think that those last two:

in ignorance or confusion, and sometimes just straight up disgust and racism.

And I think that those last two:

Um, and a lot of White people now will just check out, "oh, Nope.

And I think that those last two:

I don't have to do that.

And I think that those last two:

That's not my work.

And I think that those last two:

I'm checking out," but I, but "I'm witnessing it.

And I think that those last two:

And I also didn't fail to prevent it.

And I think that those last two:

I'm not intervening."

And I think that those last two:

And so it creates a moral injury within us because we see that it still goes

And I think that those last two:

on, but we're not interrupting it.

And a lot of that's done through social media.

I feel like now so much, I feel like more than in person, maybe.

Oh, 100%.

Well, not 100%, but yes, yes.

What you're saying?

Yes.

Like we're also doing an in-person too when you,

I didn't mean

100%.

Yeah.

Sorry.

Um, no, I, I know what you mean.

Like yeah.

It happens in real life, real

time.

But the majority of the time it is on social

media

But social media is how we, especially during COVID how

we all interacted with each other.

Yes.

Yes.

Because that's all we could do all we could do.

All we could do.

Sorry.

I digress.

No, you're not digressing at all.

You're gressing.

That's perfect.

Um, but those two pieces.

Make the most sense to me as to why and how racism still impacts

me as a White person, because I see other White people acting out

of pocket and acting real messy.

And if I don't intervene or if I don't like, if I'm not failing to prevent, then

I feel bad that I didn't do anything.

Right.

And I feel shitty.

And that doesn't mean that I'm a victim.

Right.

Um, but it does mean by like a textbook definition.

It means victim, but I'm not-- I'm not a helpless victim.

I think so often when we use the word "victim," we

associate it with helplessness.

Right.

Uh, and so I've always kind of struggled with using that language

"perpetrator" and "victim," but it is, I think the

easiest thing for folks to tap into.

Right.

You're not being victimized, right.

Like, instead of, yeah, like I think more when you're a victim.

Something happening to you from somebody else in a very direct way is how I, I

mean, I don't know what the textbook definition is exactly, but that's

like when you're scrolling through Facebook and you see somebody being

messy, as you said, which is great.

I think that's wonderful.

Um, not them being messy, but like that term, um, when you scroll

through, through social media, you see some, a White person being messy.

They're not being victimized.

Right.

So that's, that's what I think that that's where that difference lies.

And you're also not being victimized by watching it and not doing anything.

Right.

Oh, that's what I mean.

Yeah.

Sorry.

I missed that part, but yeah.

Yeah.

You're not being victimized.

You're experiencing moral injury,

correct.

Right.

But you're not like a victim in that sense.

In a helpless sense, yeah.

Right?

Like you could do something.

But you didn't.

Right,

But that doesn't mean that it didn't affect you

In social justice discourse.

White people are not supposed to have full-time jobs

dismantling White supremacy.

It's either part-time work or it's a hobby.

Um, you can bring it into parts of your job, but.

It's not a thing that can or should put food on your table.

And I think in soundbite activism, this makes a lot of sense.

Cause the soundbite has always been it's unethical to perpetrate harm

and then profit off of that harm.

We've heard this over and over again, and we even talked about it last episode.

And that narrative I think is built in to the core argument

of shame that White people are never victims of race and racism.

White people are only perpetrators of race and racism.

Like we are not impacted negatively by racism,

and this is different than reverse racism, right quick.

That's not, we're not talking about

that.

Thank you for saying that.

That is not what we're saying at all.

I'm saying that this is what, uh, this is what destroys our humanity.

This is, this is moral injury.

This is perpetration induced, traumatic stress.

Whenever we have that, like that fight or flight feeling that comes up when

people start talking about race or racism, that's us being impacted by racism.

And this is where I like there's "hurts."

And then there's "harms."

And to me, a hurt isn't as, as, as deep cutting as a harm.

Does that make sense?

Like I'm, I'm hurt by something rather than I've been harmed by.

Harmed feels more long-term.

Oh, I see.

Um, yeah, I guess I've never thought about it before, but that seems true.

Feels true.

So the brilliant Clementine Morrigan--

Genius.

Differentiates "hurt' and "harm."

And I think it's actually really apical-- applicable to the

conversation that we're having here.

And Clementine says, "Every time you are hurt is not an example of harm.

People do not need to be accountable for hurting your feelings or

behaving in ways you don't like.

There's a difference between someone acting in the ways that violate

your boundaries and someone acting in ways that end up hurting you.

For example, it might really hurt you for your partner to

end their relationship with you.

Or to be unable or unwilling to meet a particular need of yours.

That will hurt.

And you will have the right to feel hurt, but they haven't harmed you and

they don't need to be accountable.

Disagreements conflicts, mismatched needs and boundaries, and all sorts of normal

human interactions can result in hurt.

That doesn't mean anyone has done anything wrong or has

anything to be accountable for.

It's a good thing to be considerate and show concern and care when we have

hurt someone's feelings, but that is not the same as taking responsibility

for having done something wrong.

It is not wrong to have boundaries to disagree, to be in conflict.

And you don't need to apologize for these things.

A lot of the discourse on harm and accountability

encourages codependent relating.

It's normal for other people's boundaries and differences

to bring up feelings of hurt.

That doesn't mean they've caused harm.

And so when I think about the hurt versus harm with White people and racism

and how we are impacted, we are hurt.

We are hurt, but we are not seeking, nor should we seek the accountability

of folks of Color in that hurt.

Right?

Yeah no.

Absolutely not.

Absolutely not.

If anything, we are accountable for that hurt and that's where we are

simultaneously perpetrators and victims because we are hurting ourselves.

Like cancel culture is perhaps nothing more than untreated and

unchecked moral injury bonding.

Cancel culture and conspiratorial culture.

It makes so much more sense to me when I understand them and access

them as moral injury culture.

And because the injury goes untreated unacknowledged or like unchecked,

people get stuck there and then it morphs into a trauma response.

What a mind fuck.

Isn't it?

And so that to me is where really keeping in

that White people are hurt by this White people are impacted by this.

And because we have to be accountable to ourselves and by our own actions,

we have to be doing this work too.

Right.

I know, it's just really freaking frustrating.

That's when I know that I'm frustrated, I won't cuss.

I will use "freaking"

just so gosh, darn frustrating.