Guest: Mike Kelly | Executive Coach & Founder of Right Path Enterprises

In this episode, Mike Kelly shares the kinds of leadership conversations that have shaped his life and work — and why the best leaders often do their most important work behind the scenes. From his early days in corporate to founding two mission-driven businesses, Mike brings wisdom, warmth, and clarity to what it means to lead yourself first.

We talk about:

• The conversation that changed how he sees growth
• Letting go of performance culture and embracing rest
• Leading with values and aligning your inner and outer life
• What financial planning can learn from coaching (and vice versa)

Whether you're in leadership, transition, or simply learning to grow with intention — this conversation will meet you there.

Links & Resources:

• Right Path Enterprises
• Kelly Financial Planning
• Connect with Mike on LinkedIn

🎧 For more episodes, visit conversationsgrowpodcast.com

Welcome to Conversations That Grow, the podcast where we explore the conversations that shape leadership, influence, and long-term growth. I'm Sadaf Beynon, and today I'm joined by Mike Kelly. He's a certified executive coach, financial planner, and experienced board advisor.

transported.

and founder of Kelly Financial Planning, Mike helps individuals and organizations align their values with their decisions so they can lead with purpose and clarity. Mike, it's so great to have you here.

Thank you, Sadaf. It's great to be with you and I do look forward to our conversation. Thank you for having me.

You're very welcome. So let's start at the top. What's a conversation you had that changed the way you think about leadership or growth?

Well, I've had a number of think back to a conversation that I had probably Had a lot of stuff doubt and I wasn't very, very confident when it came to what was And I think a lot of that had to do with the fact that

Okay.

For me in my background, I'm the first African-American to do a lot of things, right? So I step into some of these roles and I really had to really gain some confidence and certainly was a confident, was a couple of partners that I trusted and I was able to actually talk things through with them, hear their stories and how they overcame some of those barriers and a lot of them was psychological in their own minds.

And

those types of conversations encouraged me, actually, encouraged me to think broader, think bigger, think more around what I could be as opposed to what I had been or what I was doing at that point in time. And that led me to set some real big aspirational goals, I guess you'd call them.

And over time to take some steps and part of that journey was failure. but I learned to another thing I'll share along that line is, and I mentioned to you, I was having conversations with myself. Well, I was more of a long ranger. I kept everything within. I didn't talk to a lot of people. I didn't share very much. And that was hard because I carried a burden, right? I carried a lot of weight, a lot of things that I didn't need to carry on my own. did. But as I learned to be more open and transparent and trusting and trusting of other people,

It allowed me to become freer and I would say it allowed me to accomplish more with a lot less pressure on myself.

Wow, thank you for sharing that. So you were saying you had conversations with yourself.

Why is that? Why do you think you were a Lone Ranger?

me.

Well, I was a long ranger because again, as I said, I came into my corporate career, for example. I'm the first in my family to go to college, first in my family to have a driver's license. I can go on and on and on And for me, there weren't a lot of, my dad was a janitor in a manufacturing facility for many, many years and he job, a great, did a lot of things for the family. ⁓

working as a janitor, my mom, stayed at home with us, wonderful mom, wonderful life, wonderful childhood, but it went from being in a corporate environment and working as a professional. I was a first person again in my family and I didn't know a lot of people who looked like me that were in those spaces. So for me, there was a lack of trust. I era and there weren't a lot of opportunities for us and there weren't a lot of in the South, there weren't a lot of times when you crossed the line, you you spent a lot of time with people who are different from you. So coming into a corporate environment,

predominantly majority white and me as an African American, I just didn't trust people. And that was more me than them, I think, because as I learned to trust, as I learned to become more open, not with just people who didn't look like me, but people who also looked like me, it became a lot easier. And that was especially true when I started to lead people and communicate with people who reported to me. I realized that I had to lead myself well before I could lead them well. And that's another thing that...

me, inspired me, guess I'd say in some ways to look at myself in the mirror and figure out what needed to change in order that I could be a better leader of myself, Sadaf, and other people. And that started that journey for me when it came to being the leader that I ultimately became, but also getting to the point now where can help other leaders overcome barriers similar to the barriers that I had and so many other barriers that we all have when it comes to communication and leadership of ourselves and other people. ⁓

Listening to you speak, I am interested to know if there was this inner ⁓ conflict that you had as well at that time where you were having conversations with yourself because you obviously had an ambition, a drive to do more. But at the same time, you were the first in so many different ways and you didn't necessarily trust everybody.

Thank

Thank ⁓

that

you know what you were saying. I guess the internal conflict that ⁓ I'm wondering about is that you had this drive, but at the same time, there was you were holding back from having open conversations and just right. So how did how did you bring those two things together?

Thanks

Well, through pain.

through pain. I almost worked myself to death. That's part of my story as well. I was in a corporate role with a international company, Michelin, Michelin-type corporation. I was a guy who was getting a lot of experience. I had the opportunity to get experience in operations, HR, got experience in finance, and ultimately got experience in sales. But at that particular time, I was in human resources, and I was a high potential guy because I was accomplishing a lot. I mean, I was getting a lot of raises, a lot of respect, a lot of opportunities.

Okay, yeah.

But I was working myself to death. I was working 14, 15, 16 hours a day. And I wasn't sleeping very well. I wasn't a good husband.

wasn't a good boss or manager, but my people would not, the people who reported to me, they wouldn't tell me that because they were afraid, right? A lot of fear in organizations. And I stopped going to church. I mean, I can go on and on and on. gained 30 pounds. All I was doing was working. And there was internal conflict there. The way to get to the top is to keep, just stay busy, keep moving forward, to not deal with some of those things that were going on internally.

Hmm.

Well, it got to the point where I was having headaches to the point, Sadat, that I couldn't sleep, couldn't concentrate, which led me to go see a doctor. And ultimately the doctor gave me some things to help me sleep, to help with the headaches, but that didn't work. So I kept going to the doctor over and over and over again. Ultimately, the doctor said to me, Hey Mike, we need to scan your brain to make sure you don't have anything going on there from a medical standpoint. They did. There were no medical issues, but he looked at me and said, you are under severe stress headed towards.

a serious bout of depression, which led me to stop and forced me to reflect just generally, but also spiritually, socially, I mean, in every way. And it also inspired me to go get feedback from other people.

And that is one of the things that helped me sort of move forward as I start to ask people, my wife, are you or how am I as a husband? Mike, you can be better. You know, I'm 30 pounds overweight. had an exercise physiologist reporting to me. She took a look at all of my vitals and my weight and all those things and said, hey, Mike, yes, you are overweight. A nurse practitioner reporting to me, Mike, you should listen to the doctor. I can go on and on and on. But ultimately, I had to look in the mirror and make some decisions on who I wanted to be and how I needed to live my life.

Hmm.

And that resulted in me getting on this journey, getting a coach in my corner, someone I could talk to, someone who could challenge me, hold me accountable, becoming more open to feedback from my team, ⁓ telling them that I needed their help, being more humble. And they were willing to share that with me. And it made us a better team. My wife, our relationship strengthened, and we have a much better marriage because of that. I'm not sure if that answers your question, but I arrived at that point through

Hmm.

pain.

⁓ no, it absolutely answers my question and thank you for being so candid. Yeah. So ⁓ you also said earlier that you learned that you had to lead learn to lead yourself before you could lead others. I'm assuming this was the natural place you arrived at after having gone through that pain

You're very welcome.

So can you tell us a little bit more about leading yourself before leading others? does that mean? What does that look like?

So you can listen.

Yes, what that means, in my opinion, what it means and what I learned was that I had to have a sense of purpose in my life. It's more than just working hard, showing up. It was living a life of meaning, a life of purpose. over that course of that period of time, I learned that I needed to really step back and reflect on who I was, right, and who I wanted to be. Not only now in the next five years, but at the end of my life, if I'm looking back over my life, what do I want to see?

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Hmm.

get that picture in my mind. Over time, I became a registered life planner and part of that process was building a life plan. And as part of that process, you're to ask yourself a few questions. And the questions are, if I were financially secure today and into the future, I never have to worry about money again. What would I do with my life? Would I change anything? Let yourself go design a life that's richly yours. The next question is, if you were to go to your doctor and your doctor told you you had five to 10 years left to live.

The good thing is you never feel sick. The bad thing is you're going to die five to 10 years. What would you do with the time you have remaining? And then the last question, question three is, this time you go to your doctor. Your doctor tells you you only have 25 hours left to live.

you

What feeling comes across you when you face your very own real mortality? More importantly, what will you miss doing, being, or seeing? And those are questions from George Kender, the Kender Institute, the organization that certified me as a register life planner. So that's a way of thinking about what matters most. So getting clear on what my purpose is, my why in my life was something that was helpful, but also thinking through what does that look like, my vision of the future, my what. And then creating a mission, a mission statement that aligned with that, Sadaf, was powerful.

mission statement and I find today that very few people have mission statements, organizations do, but I ended up creating a mission statement which is to use my God-given leadership, analytical, and financial skills to help my family and others grow to become all they're designed to be while continuing to grow myself. So that mission statement is very helpful to me when I think about the goals that are important to me are the priority areas, faith, family, fitness, finances, fun, firm, friends. I then have the opportunity to live a life that's more intentional, focused on what

matters most to me. For example, the firm and that F can be your job or your business. It was sucking all of my time, my energy, my attention, and it was at the expense of everything else. But when I stepped back and I realized that I needed to live more intentionally, live on purpose, clear vision around that, have a mission statement, and then set goals in those priority areas of life that align with my mission, it changed my life.

I found that I wasn't working very hard and I was accomplishing so much more because my time was in being invested, not just spent on things that didn't matter.

Yeah.

Hmm.

That's really interesting. was actually going to ask you about that. how how that's changed. And you've just said yourself that you don't feel like you're working as hard, but you're being so much more productive. was that a process? Because from my understanding, you would have had to unlearn a lot of habits to then create new ones.

was hard.

Yeah, yeah, there's a quote by a guy named Jim Rohn. He says, work hard on yourself than you do on your job. He said, if you work hard on your job, you earn a living. But if you work hard on yourself, you earn a fortune. And in my opinion, that fortune is not necessarily money. It could be joy, peace of mind. So there were things I had to unlearn. There was conditioning. I was conditioned to think a certain way. But through getting clarity, setting goals,

Yeah.

Hmm.

that are aligned with the habits or the new habits, the person I want it to be, allow me then to practice. And over time I changed. And I can give you examples of what that looks like, looked like, but you know, 30 pounds overweight. So you want to lose weight. I've lost 30 pounds since that point in time. Well, I needed to change my diet. I needed to get in the gym more frequently.

Mm-hmm.

I needed to get involved in activities that maybe I hadn't in the past. For example, I started doing yoga for flexibility in addition to cardio and strength training, which was very helpful. My diet changed. Instead of eating whatever I wanted to eat, I became more of a pescatarian where I only eat meat. That's fish. I'm sorry, fish. And that's two, three times a week, but everything else is fruit and vegetables. I drink a lot of water, little to no pops and those sorts of things, but I had to make some decisions and I had to really plan.

which

is kind of strange when it comes to life, but I had to plan. And as I set those goals, as I used a tool that I have that helps me keep track of those things, it allowed me again to be more aware and more intentional because most of us, and I'm probably the worst, we're busy people and we have a lot of balls in the air. And sometimes it can become overwhelming. How do I keep it all going?

So taking the time to plan, think, at the end of the day, certainly reflect back on the day is something that habit that I developed that has been very helpful to me. But I will tell you, Sudhaf, I'm not there. I will never be there. This is a life long journey for us all. But the most important thing in my mind is to become aware, self aware, then make a decision to be different and start taking action today, wherever you are. And also getting help.

Yeah. Yes.

Hmm.

having other people in your community that are willing to encourage you and support you on your journey.

Absolutely. Thank you. Mike, you work with a range of leaders and organizations. What kinds of conversations do you find most impactful for helping people lead well or move forward?

I find that conversations around humility and transparency are big conversations, especially for leaders. And you know this well, I'm sure, in the work that you do. The higher you go in an organization, the more people tell you what they think you want to hear. Very rarely can you get anyone around you who's willing to tell you what you need to hear. So as leaders, we have to be transparent. We have to be humble. We have to let people know that we need their help.

Yeah.

And when we do that, it can be difficult, but when we do that, when we take that risk, the returns can be incredible. Not only from a improvement in our ability to be aware of where we are, how we're showing up.

but also the trust that is built with others. So for me, it's really asking those hard questions, having conversations with people around transparency, humility. And with the work that I do, we often end up helping them get feedback that's helpful to them too, so that you can become self-aware. And what does that feedback look like? It might look like,

them or either I'll go in and do it talking to people around them. Maybe people they report to, people who are peers, people who are subordinates and asking them three questions. First question would be what are Mike's strengths or his gifts? What are Mike's weak spots? What are what else would you want Mike to know? And getting that information, compiling it and then sharing that with them and it's amazing what comes from that.

is absolutely amazing. So those are the type of conversations with leaders that I'm having more often. And the other conversation that I'm having, Sadat, is this conversation around what matters to you, what really matters most to you.

Hmm.

So what does that look like?

I shared my story. Had someone come along beside me and asked me that question early on in my career, I probably would have avoided the pain, but had I avoided the pain that I experienced, I wouldn't be able to help people the way I am today. But I do feel that having someone coming along beside you, asking you, know, what matters most to you? You're spending, you've got a short period of time on this earth. Again, at the end of your journey, you're looking back, what do you want to see? How are you spending your time today?

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Does that align

with those priorities? For example, we talked about the seven F's, faith, family, fitness, finances, fun, firm, friends. I often ask them to rate themselves in those areas. How are you doing from one to 10? One being strong, I'm doing great. One being weak, 10 being I'm strong, I'm great, I'm perfect in this area. And they rate themselves one to 10. And then I ask them to prioritize those areas, one to seven. What's most important to you? What's least?

So you go through that process of saying whatever, you my family's most important or my faith, my business. And then I asked them to take a look at their calendars. Does your calendar reflect what you just said? Oftentimes they don't.

So we have a conversation around, how do we change that? How do you change that? And how can I support you changing that? And lots times they don't know, people don't know, we just don't know.

What's your?

Yeah, and I guess what you want can evolve as well. Like as you grow as a person, you might change what your priorities are.

I agree with you, that does change. But if you have a clear mission statement, that can change as well. When those things change, it's much easier for you to adjust because you know what you're adjusting, right? My purpose, my mission. Yeah, it's a time to adjust. Because as we get more clarity as we grow, yes, things do evolve. We change. Maybe we have more aspirations, different things we want to accomplish. Priorities might shift. But when they shift, we know that our focus needs to shift as well.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mike, what do you do when you meet resistance in a leadership team or an individual?

you

Yeah. Well, resistance is part of the journey. And you know this. I was a salesperson for about 10 years with Michelin, French-owned tire company. And you expected resistance. When you didn't get it, you were shocked, right? So rejection, we called it. But that was resistance. So when I face resistance, I work harder at listening better and asking better questions.

Hmm.

Mm.

because maybe I'm missing something.

asking questions and I'm listening, oftentimes things come out that I missed and even the person that I'm talking to, they're not even aware of consciously but in the back of their mind it's there. So questions to me are so powerful. The ability to ask questions and then to listen with energy and emotion. Because most of us know what we need to do, we know what we need, but we often need someone to help us get there.

Hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. And I think, as you saying, digging and asking more questions actually helps them think through where they're at and where they're trying to get to rather than just the one off question.

I found over time, and you've probably seen this, it'd be great to hear your stories on this, but when you're telling, when you're often telling people, you lose people. I when you talk to each, you lose people. That doesn't build trust. It's more about you than them. So being more interested in people as opposed to being interesting allows, and I see it in my own life, me too, you know.

Hmm.

Yeah.

to break down walls, barriers, and there is resistance. You're going to face it. But I like to lean into resistance. I found resistance to be fun because I've come to expect it.

Hmm. That's good. So

You're passionate about helping people align values with financial decisions too. So what kind of conversations help people get to that level of clarity?

I am passionate about helping people with financial decisions. And I find that that is an area in our country, in our world, where very few people have a basic understanding of money relative to life. So one of the questions ⁓ that I like to ask is, what do you want? Let's put money to the side for a while. What do you want this money that you're working so hard to earn to do for you? And when I ask that question,

I often don't get an answer because many people haven't thought about it. They're just saving money. They're working hard or they're worried about money and they have no real concept of what they want money to do for them. So getting a picture of that, painting a picture of that can make the conversation around money a lot easier and it can also motivate them once they get clear on what they want this money to do for them, what their real goals are to take steps that maybe they they've hesitated.

taking they didn't take in the past because they're more motivated at that point so i like to start with goals what are your goals around this money what do you see yourself five ten years from now and retirement what are your goals in retirement

around travel, charitable giving, what have you. And once we get clear on that, when we build a financial plan for them, it's much more meaningful, it's much easier, and it's much more relevant to them. But the conversation up front around what do you want, why do you want it, what are you willing to do to get it, what is it gonna take for you to get it, are very important questions. And that gets back to listening.

Going back

to what you were saying before, I think that can be sometimes a hard conversation to have because you have to really dig deep and understand what it is that you're chasing. But I think at the end, it must be such a freeing process.

It is a freeing process and again trust in our industry in the financial planning industry a lot of people don't trust financial planners because the thought is that the financial advisor wants your money so that they can get a certain percentage of your money over time and and that's perfectly that's that's part of the way the industry works but there is a feeling that advisors aren't as concerned about the client and

As a result of that, when we meet new prospects, that's something that we have to overcome. And by being human, by being interested in people and really coming from a place where you want to be objective, client focused and help people, you ask those questions, you really lean in, and it makes the process much more fun for you and for them.

And I've seen this over and over and over. The way I work is a little bit unique in that I don't sell product at all. No mutual funds, no stock, no insurance. I don't trust the assets. I just build plans based on what people's goals are. So the majority of my time really is spent digging deep around goals.

Yeah, and

I can see how that would be really ⁓ beneficial for your clients too because they're not getting lost in jargon.

Yes, which is hard, Siddharth, because you know so much. You've gone, you've become a certified financial planner, you've done all these things, and you want to let people know how much you know. But in reality, it's really not about that. You almost have to flip the script, right? You know, it's more about what and what, where you are and what you want, as opposed to what I know, what I can do for you. Once I really know what you want,

Hmm.

Hmm.

We can certainly help you, but I've got to focus on the client. And I've had to train myself. And one of the things that helped me was being a salesperson in the entire industry, focused on the client, asking questions, peeling back the onion, that's what we called it when it came to asking questions to find the heart of the matter. And I get to do that again, as an advisor in the work that I do and as an executive coach as well in a live, but it really is about being curious.

patient.

asking the right questions, listening well, and being able to move the conversation and relationship forward as we develop trust between each other so that they get what they deserve. And as an advisor, there's a sense of satisfaction knowing that you've helped.

people do that. And one of the things that I enjoy the most about what I do is talking with people who I've worked with. They come back and they share the progress that they've made. It is just so much fun for me. I had lunch with a young man last week and he and I worked together for a year and that was four years ago and he shared with me. He said, know, Mike, you know, I'd pay 30 times what I paid you if I knew what I know now because my life has changed.

Yeah.

That's very rewarding.

It was very rewarding and to see

what he's doing to help people on his own journey as he's engaging others is another thing that is so rewarding.

Yeah, Mike, it's clear that that trust and clarity that you bring with your clients is so important to what you do. I'm interested, how do the conversations shift when you're sitting in a boardroom versus coaching a founder or a team leader?

They're certainly different, but in some ways they're similar because it comes back again to questions. It comes back to questions. And I find that in board meetings, and I'm in a lot of different board meetings, for profit. ⁓

Mm.

companies and also nonprofit companies. But it comes back to number one, focusing on the mission of the organization. What are we looking to achieve and why? And then listening, how do we get there from a strategic standpoint? How are we supposed to move towards that?

But being able to listen in a boardroom, prepare first. And that's a big part of it. Prepare. all the information that you get. And we get a lot of information on these boards, regardless of the type board. But taking the time to prepare so that when you go into the meeting, you have an understanding of where things are. But then being able to listen and ask questions again in a boardroom is so you can move the meeting by asking the right questions.

Yeah.

Mm.

You can change the direction of meetings, I've seen this, by asking the right questions. What happens often for us on boards, especially new board members, is that we want to prove ourselves, so we end up talking and sharing things, and we're not coming from a place of understanding and knowledge or even focus on the mission. We just want to add value, and we're coming from the right place. But just by being patient, listening, asking questions, being curious,

think you help organizations even more. And an example of that would be you bring a new board member on. You've got a group of board leaders who've been on this board for a while. Over time, you tend to see things a certain way. And you get this group thing going on. So if you bring a new board member in, as opposed to the new board member trying to add value based on what he thinks everyone in the room wants to hear, be curious. Ask questions.

that might be, might help the group change. For example, for example, a lot of times you think that, okay, this is a stupid question, but in reality, it's probably a question that's gonna shift the board meeting. If you're asking something that we should have been thinking about all along, but we're traveling down this path and we haven't even considered anything else.

Mm-hmm.

So being able to ask questions, again, I'll go back to that. It is so important in board meetings as well, but preparation first is important. And then the other thing that is important for boards is to continue to grow. Just because you're on a board doesn't mean you understand what it means to be a board member. It doesn't mean that you've arrived. So having a growth mindset, continuing to provide board development.

Yeah.

Continuing to request that that be made available to board members is something that's important as well because just like with everything in my opinion Growing as a leader growing as a board director growing as a financial advisor is a lifelong journey It's a lifelong journey, but I but I was another thing. I want to share one other thing too on that line We and I say we I say we as a whole we don't focus enough on board development

Yeah. Yeah, it's a muscle.

The thought is that when someone comes into a boardroom, they're executive in a corporation or whatever. The thought is that they have it all. There's nothing we need to tell them. They're going to come in and help move us forward, but that is often not the case. often, that's not the case.

Why do you think that is?

Well, it's not the case because what works in a corporation, as you the CEO or whatever role you're in, coming into a board, say a nonprofit board, well nonprofits have totally different challenges. They don't have a wealth of resources. So what's working in an organization that has tons of shareholders if you're a publicly traded company or a huge budget?

coming into an organization that's just trying to make it, a lot of those things don't work. So you almost have to take baby steps and you almost have to be someone who...

checks your brain at the door and you come into this board, say if it's a nonprofit board, and you want to understand the organization. What are some of the challenges? What are some of the reasons why things are trending this way that maybe we can talk through and change to send an organization on a different trajectory? And it might not be that they need more money. Maybe they need different types of leadership. Maybe they need a strategic plan. They've never had a strategic plan done. In corporate America, we constantly talk about strategic plans, but in some nonprofits, they don't have strategic

strategic

plans. Maybe they're operating with a staff that's not properly structured. They don't have enough resources often. How can we maximize those resources? So in a corporation, in a bigger organization, maybe a person has tons of resources, everything they need at their disposal coming into an organization that doesn't have that, you have to shift your thinking. So that's where listening well comes in. Doing the work upfront, preparing.

allows you then to ask the right questions and to contribute in a way that's gonna be most meaningful to that organization. And the things that I'm sharing with you are things that I've seen personally, because I've had to relearn a lot of this and shift my own thinking as I've stepped into some of these different boards that I'm on.

Yeah.

So are you saying in some ways You don't want to just accept status quo, but actually be willing to pick things apart. and just ask what's going on here, even if the question may seem stupid, but just ask and challenge in a good way.

Be a student. Be a student. That's the simplest way to describe it. Just be a student. Come in, certainly, with a desire to help. But be a student. Understand the organization well. And as you gain an understanding of the organization, the challenges that they're facing, some of the opportunities that exist, you're going to be able to add even more value over time. And that's important, because you don't want to come in knowing everything, everything that maybe worked in your past. It's not necessarily going to work here.

Mm-hmm.

So it's similar to working for a corporation for many years or a nonprofit or whoever and then going to another organization and you walk into this other organization and all you talk about is what you did at the last organization. You're gonna lose people, right? think with the board, yes, you bring certainly quite a bit of experience, solid background, resources that you've had access to, relationships, networks, which are important.

Yeah.

But you gotta leave some of those things at the door until you get new bearings and you can figure out what would be the best way to integrate some of this into what I'm doing here, as opposed to coming in being a know-it-all.

Yeah, you need to apply your experience, don't you? And I really love what you said about being a student. it just fortifies what you were saying earlier about ask questions. let them do the talking, find out what's actually going on, be a student. I love that.

Well, it comes back to humility. There's I've got a mentor. He's in his 90s and he's met a lot of people from around the world, literally all disciplines. And he. He's a guy who ⁓ he was with. He's in Washington, I think Washington DC, and he was going to bring in a bunch of leaders to to speak in Washington DC clergy of all types, all faiths and Mother Teresa was going to come to this. This event.

Hmm.

And she got sick. She wasn't able to make it. on behalf of everyone else there, she called, he called mother Teresa to ask her how they could pray for her. And mother Teresa said to him, please pray that I not get in the way of God's Humility. And this gentleman, another thing he said to me is that he, of all the leaders he's seen around the world, people doing a lot of

things. The characteristic that stood out most, leadership characteristic that stood out most to him that he saw was humility. They had the power but they didn't necessarily have to use it. People worked with and for them because they wanted to not because they had to. And that's something that stayed with me.

Yeah.

That's very powerful. think humility is often seen as a weakness, isn't it?

Yes it is. Yes it is. And there's strength in humility in many respects. ⁓

Thank you. What's one communication lesson or leadership insight you've had to learn the hard way?

and communications.

One that I've had to learn the hard way would be not jumping to conclusions too quickly, but it gets back to what we've talked about. So I'm in a conversation. Someone's talking, I'm getting information, and I make a decision right away. OK, this is where we need to go. And I have to hear the whole story. Stepping back, listening, asking questions, probing questions to make sure I'm clear.

Yeah.

Hmm.

before I make an assumption or decision is one of the, in my opinion, one of the most important lessons that I've learned. Yeah, because I failed a lot there, especially early on in my career. I would hear something and I got it, right? So I'm intellectually curious, I'm quote unquote smart, but I was pretty dumb because I wasn't doing what I needed to do. And those things were basic. And it's really listening well.

So when I talk about listening, I talk about that from experience too. Listening, taking the time to think things through. If I need to ask questions for clarity, getting those, asking those questions and then hearing what I'm, what someone's saying allowed me then to be better in that particular ⁓ relationship or situation. But it also allowed me then to make better decisions. Another communication.

thing that was something that I learned that I thought that was hard but helpful was when I do a lot of public speaking, early on when I spoke, it was more about mic than the audience. So I found myself getting nervous, losing track of where I was going because I thinking more about me and what I needed to do as opposed to whether the people need who were listening to me. So I've learned over time to really keep it about the audience. And when I'm communicating, when I'm sharing,

Thank

Make sure it's more about them than Mike. And that's been a wonderful thing because right now I have so much more fun when I'm speaking.

That's cool. How

did you teach yourself that?

Well, by reading everything I could get my hands on, watching great speakers, talking to people who I felt were great speakers, getting their opinions on what they did, and then make failing trial and error, right? So trial and error. heard someone say the other day that consider fear of failure the gas pedal instead of the brake, right?

So I failed. There's some fear, but I just kept leaning into it. And over time, I found my rhythm. But I just really, I learned from others. And then I practiced. And I actually joined Toastmaster for a while early in my career. Helped get a Toastmaster's chapter started in the company I worked at.

That was helpful as well because you get the practice around people who all and they're with you and they're on the same journey. So that was helpful as well. Communication really sending receiving sounds so simple, but it can be very, very challenging to us. That's what's great that it's an area that you focus on because it's something that we all need help with. In many respects, we all need to be taught how to communicate.

the same boat, yeah.

Hmm.

It is,

Yeah, for sure. listening to you speak it's this thread that runs through your whole story and it's listening well, asking questions, being a student and all of it anchored in humility. And, you know, talking with you two, it's so evident that you are, that you are so humble and this has been a real privilege.

Thank you.

So thank you for such a thoughtful conversation. I've loved hearing your perspective on leadership values and the kinds of conversations that really drive that meaningful growth.

Well, you are very welcome, Sudhaf. And again, thank you for having me and please keep up work you're doing. The world desperately needs your gifts.

Thank you, Mike. But before we wrap up, where can our listeners go to connect with you and hear more about your work?

you

Yes, thank you. They can go to Right Path Enterprises like Take the Right Path, R-I-G-H-T, pathenterprises.com or kellyfinancialplanning.com, K-E-L-L-Y, financialplanning.com. You can also find me on LinkedIn. I'm on Facebook.

Mm-hmm.

Twitter a little bit less or it's called X now. That's right. X. Some of them are not as much. You can find me there. And I've written a book called, Fluence, Secrets of Leadership, Essential to Effectively Leading Yourself and Positively Influencing Others. That can be found on Amazon and it can also be found on my website. You can find me there, but you can also schedule time if you want to have a conversation with me. love meeting people. You can schedule that on my website as well.

Yeah. ⁓

Awesome. Thank you.

To those listening in, thank you for being here. The links that Mike mentioned are in the show notes. I hope today's episode gave you something meaningful to think about, whether that's how you lead, how you connect or how you grow. The best growth often starts with a meaningful conversation. Thanks for being part of this one and I will see you in the next episode.