In this episode, host Nathan Dunleavy sits down with Hayley Miles, founder of Halo Pups and host of the Chihuahua Podcast, to talk all things Chihuahuas and small breed dogs. Hayley shares her personal journey rehabilitating a reactive rescue Chihuahua and explains why so-called "small dog syndrome" isn't real at all.

This conversation is essential listening for any dog guardian who's ever felt judged for having a "spicy" small dog. Grab a cup of tea and settle in for this one.

What you'll learn in this episode:

✅ Why "small dog syndrome" is a myth, and what's really going on when small dogs growl, snap, or bark

✅ How pain and dental issues can be mistaken for behavioural problems in Chihuahuas

✅ Why over-handling and picking dogs up too often can cause fear and reactivity

✅ How to spot subtle stress signals like the "kiss to dismiss" and whale eye

✅ Simple training swaps that make a big difference for tiny dogs (treat size, lead weight, tags)

✅ Why scent work and hand targeting are two of the best tools for small dog guardians

✅ How to advocate for your dog when well-meaning strangers want to touch them

Key takeaways:

• Growling and snapping are communication, not defiance — they deserve the same respect as a larger dog's warning signs

• A vet check should always be the first step with a reactive small dog, as pain is often the root cause

• Teaching a nose-to-hand target gives you a hands-off way to move your dog and can double as an emergency recall

• You are your dog's advocate — it's okay to say no when strangers want to pet or pick up your dog

Connect with Hayley

Halo Pups website

Halo Pups Facebook page

The Chihuahua Podcast

🐾 Find ethical, qualified pet professionals near you at Yappily the directory for dog guardians who care about doing right by their dog.

🎙️ Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to The Yappy Hour and leave us a review, it helps more dog guardians find us!

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Welcome to the Yappy Hour, powered by

2

Yappily, the podcast for dog lovers who

want to better understand and connect

3

with their four-legged companions.

4

I'm your host, Nathan Dunleavy, and

in today's episode, it's one I've

5

been really looking forward to because

it's talking all about small dogs

6

and especially the mighty Chihuahua.

7

Joining me is Hayley Miles, founder

of Halo Pups, behavior Specialists

8

and host of the Chihuahua podcast.

9

Hayley is on a mission to shift the

narrative around chihuahuas and small

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breeds, helping people see them not

as accessories or yappy little things.

11

But the complex, clever

emotional dogs, they really are.

12

As someone who shares my home with

seven small dogs, including three

13

chihuahuas, I can tell you they've

taught me more than I ever expected.

14

If you've ever been, if you've ever

been underestimated because your dog

15

is small, or you want to understand

how to better support these brilliant

16

little companions, this one's for you.

17

So grab a cup of tea, settle

in, and let's get started.

18

Welcome back to The Yappy

Hour, powered by Yappily.

19

I'm your host, Nathan Dunleavy,

and I'm so excited to bring you

20

another episode of The Yappy Hour.

21

Today.

22

Even more exciting is that we've

got the amazing Hayley and we're

23

going to be talking all about small

breeds, chihuahuas everything,

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and obviously as a small breed.

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Dad, I've got three chihuahuas

and four toy poodles.

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I've been so looking forward

to this episode, so I'm really

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excited to chat to Hayley.

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So Hayley, welcome to the yappy hour.

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This episode is a very, is

gonna be close to my heart.

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So how are you doing

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Hayley: I'm very well.

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Thank you for asking me to to come on.

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I'm happy to be here.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: It is.

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Oh, it's great to have

you with us, Hayley.

36

Like I say, Chihuahua dad,

chihuahuas think they're rottweilers,

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Hayley: Wow, mom.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: And

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Hayley: Yeah.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

and four, four toy periods that are

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all drama queens like their dads.

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I've got one toy poodle asleep on my lap.

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That's

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Hayley: Oh wow.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

And then I've got Ruby that's

46

yapping down on the down because

she wants to get up on my Yap.

47

So it's all going on.

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Hayley: Hour today.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

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Right.

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So Hayley, let's get going.

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Start us off with telling us a

little bit about your journey

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with chihuahuas or small breeds.

54

What first drew you and inspired

you to working with these small

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Hayley: It's a bit of a story, but I'm

gonna try and concise it a little bit.

56

So Nathan, I've always

really loved small dogs.

57

And a lot of dog trainers are more,

I, I'm gonna probably get shot down

58

here, but a lot of dog trainers are

kind of big dog people, aren't they?

59

But I really love the small dogs like you.

60

Now I'm a small dog person.

61

Yeah.

62

Small dogs for the win.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Love it.

64

Hayley: as a child, I was genuine,

genuinely obsessed with dogs.

65

And I used to carry around

when I was about eight, I used

66

to carry around this little.

67

Pocketbook this Oxford book, like

little Pocketbook of encyclopedia.

68

It was like a, a dog breeds

library kind of thing.

69

And I used to read this book and memorized

everything about every breed, the

70

history, the origin, origins, and all

their, you know, traits and everything.

71

And I always found myself

drawn to the little ones.

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You know, the Chihuahuas, the Maltese, the

puppy ons, the my favorite actually was

73

spent and Spaniel and, and the Chihuahua.

74

So I always wanted.

75

A little dog.

76

And because we live in, or we lived

in a farming community, we just used

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to see like the terriers and the

Labradors and the, you know, spaniels.

78

And these little dogs seem so exotic to

me and they seem kind of outta reach,

79

you know, so it's like, well, the,

the rich ladies in the, on the, on the

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films, on the movies used to have them.

81

And I wanted one.

82

And I thought, oh my god.

83

You know, one day, one day.

84

So, so I memorized all the,

I was, I was quite a while.

85

Quite a weird child, you know, so, if you

just, just name a dog breed, I used to

86

sort of just name everything I used to.

87

It was like a, you know, I used to know

a lot of bad dogs at 8, 8, 9 years old.

88

So growing up and cutting

out a lot of stuff.

89

But fast forwarding to when

I got my first dog, my.

90

Jack Russell Curie, and I'm also

a big Jack Russell fan as well.

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I

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Okay.

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Hayley: a trainer, that's another story

for another day, but I became a trainer,

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juice Curie, and she was about five.

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And I was, I was training at this

stage probably about five years in,

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and I decided to foster for a rescue,

so some small dogs for a rescue.

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So I fostered a Jack Russell and he

went off to his new home and I was

98

due to have a little poodle in poodle

cross in like in about two days.

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Yeah, didn't quite make it because

I went onto Facebook in one of the

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groups and I saw this advert and

the advert said, please help me.

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I need to get rid of this dog.

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She's eight months old.

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She's a Chihuahua cross at Russell.

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She's tiny, but she's terrorizing my kids.

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She's biting them.

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She's pooing and peeing

all over the house.

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There was a couple of swearers in there,

but you know, you can get the gist.

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And I need her gone.

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She's free.

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And I was like, oh, Christ.

111

Okay, that's amazing.

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Wow.

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This, this lady's in real trouble.

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She really wants to get rid of this dog.

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So I scrolled and underneath

reams and reams of people say,

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I'll take a, I'll take a really

unscrupulous people, you know.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh

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Hayley: so I called the rescue and I

said, you know, this poodle I'm due to

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have in, well, I've seen this advert.

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And they said, okay, well change of plan.

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Let's have her in instead.

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See if we can go and get her.

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And they did.

124

They brought her to me two days later

and the transporter pulled up outside.

125

I in a flat actually at the time,

but they pulled up outside my,

126

my house, the block of flats.

127

And I went out to meet her and we

opened the boot, and inside was

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this tiny little scrap of a thing.

129

Dark brown with big, big eyes.

130

Looked absolutely terrified.

131

And I went to say, oh,

you know, come this way.

132

And she had no clea, no lead.

133

No lead even no Colin, nothing.

134

And I went to say, oh, hi.

135

You know, and she absolutely launched

at me like a Tasmanian devil.

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Yeah, like a Tasmanian devil.

137

She launched herself and I almost

got bitten and both of us shut the

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boot and we were like, oh, okay.

139

I said, why doesn't she

have a collar and lead on?

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They, we, we couldn't get one on her.

141

The owner couldn't get one on her.

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I said, what was the house like?

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And she said, she just

literally like handed her over.

144

There was a bull mastiff in there, which

was fine, but this little dog had been

145

fighting with the bull mastiff over food.

146

Bit all the kids.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: gosh.

148

Hayley: lady just wanted,

wanted a ridge and couldn't

149

get a lead on her or anything.

150

All she came with no bed, nothing.

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All she came with was a little

collar little thin tartan collar

152

and a little thin tartan lead.

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And on the, on the tag it

said ball bond biscuit.

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I mean, she did look like a bo

bond biscuit, but that's all she

155

came with, with no other history.

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And I'm like, okay.

157

So I said to the trans transporter,

I said, how long do I have to

158

get this dog outta your boot?

159

And into my house.

160

She said, you've got 45 minutes.

161

I said, right, let's do it.

162

So I had to put everything I've

learned into my, off my training

163

into getting this dog outta that

boot without getting bitten.

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And I did it.

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And it was a journey.

166

It was like a, it was like a,

it was like a big countdown.

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15 minutes, 10 minutes, five minutes.

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Ah, you know?

169

And so what I did was I made a

slip lead out of a lead that I had.

170

And my ex-partner at the time had a

prepared, like a load of chicken, so I

171

managed to get slip lead over her and I

was doing all the sort of turning away

172

and yawning all the calming signals and

everything, you know, so I've managed

173

to get slip lead on her makeshift one.

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Picked her up

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

176

Hayley: into the house by my

ex-partner, rapid Feed, ch rapid

177

feeding chicken into her mouth.

178

And then IP clonked her on the other side

of a baby gate and left her like that.

179

I was like, there we go.

180

It was like I was, you

know, like a hot potato.

181

And then she was fine.

182

And she actually warmed up to

me really quickly because she

183

was, she's, she was starving.

184

She was quite underweight.

185

She, she had a limp, she had a bloodshot,

I, I mean, she'd be fighting with her.

186

All Mastiff, you know, was tiny.

187

She was like, what You size?

188

So, i, we introduced her to Kiri, my

Jack Russell, who sadly now passed away.

189

Luckily, they hit it off straight away

and then it was a case of getting a

190

collar on her, onto her, and again,

the rescue gave me five minutes before

191

they were gonna send someone around

to then get collar on her to make sure

192

that we could toilet her successfully.

193

I did that.

194

Luckily she warmed up to my partner.

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Always good.

196

She was actually okay.

197

However, she came to me with.

198

A load of issues, which

I am working on now.

199

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh

200

Hayley: ex extreme aggression.

201

Lots of gut pain and issues.

202

That's probably what,

where it's stem from.

203

And then I said to the rescue, look,

this dog can't go anywhere else.

204

She has to stay with me because

there's no one, no one else.

205

You know, I'm not blowing my own

trumpet, but she needs a professional

206

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

what you,

207

Hayley: to rehabilitate her.

208

Yeah.

209

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

210

Hayley: She can't go to like a

normal Joe blogs of Joe Public.

211

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: No.

212

'cause

213

Hayley: So I would get bitten and

she would end up put to sleep.

214

So I don't think she would be here

now, even though she's tiny if

215

With me.

216

Does that make sense?

217

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

218

I, no, I totally relate to that.

219

Yeah.

220

Hayley: so it kind of started from there.

221

So I can empathize with anyone

that's struggling with an aggressive.

222

Wow.

223

Or an aggressive small dog.

224

I've been there, I've lived the,

you know, I've got the t-shirt

225

by like 300 T-shirts and yeah,

so that's kinda where it started.

226

And then you know, we started

to see more small dogs.

227

Really loved it.

228

Really loved.

229

Helping people.

230

And then we started the LL

podcast with myself and my friend

231

Kate, who's also a trainer.

232

And we basically turned all

our conversations on WhatsApp

233

voice note into this podcast.

234

And then we invited some amazing guests

and there's loads of issue loads of

235

issues, loads of episodes now with lots of

guests and lots of information on there.

236

So it's a great resource.

237

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

238

Great.

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Hayley: It's long story.

240

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

one of them with no, I love

241

a long, I love a journey.

242

I love a long story.

243

I did listen to one of them with Kim

244

Hayley: Oh yeah.

245

That's a great one.

246

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

247

But are you, is it on a pause at the

moment or is it coming back the podcast?

248

Hayley: I don't think we are gonna

do any more episodes at the moment.

249

It's just time, Nathan.

250

It's, it's quite time consuming.

251

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I know, I

252

Hayley: and lots of gaps.

253

So we decided to kind of call it

a day for now, but you never know.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

255

Never know what the future holds.

256

And then you've got all that there anyway

that you can just signpost people to.

257

There's lots of great content there.

258

Hayley: Absolutely.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

oh, I, it's great.

260

So a chihuahua cross, Jack,

was, is that a Jack a Ja, or

261

Hayley: Jack Chi.

262

Yeah.

263

Well, UA

264

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: a.

265

Hayley: Chi jack, Jack chi,

but she's mainly Chihuahua,

266

so I'm feel a bit of a fraud.

267

I don't actually have a pure

bread chihuahua, however,

268

she's very chihuahua like.

269

But she's got that extra spicy

terrier sort of element to as well?

270

No, she's very spicy.

271

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

buzzword.

272

Hayley: Very fine.

273

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Is it?

274

Is it the

275

Hayley: Yes.

276

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

that her right?

277

And is she still called Bwin or

278

Hayley: She's called Bo.

279

BO.

280

Yeah.

281

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: her.

282

Hayley: Yeah, she's Bo.

283

Bo

284

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh,

285

Hayley: bo.

286

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: it.

287

Hayley: Yeah.

288

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

289

Oh, I love, no, I do love a

good story and a good history.

290

I love that.

291

And when I say, obviously, I only

say that tongue in cheek about

292

chihuahuas, just 'cause there's no

offense towards rottweilers at all.

293

'cause they're great.

294

But, you've got these little

characters and they think

295

they've got this big bravado, so

296

Hayley: Yeah.

297

Yeah, we'll talk about that later.

298

I must say that she's a lot.

299

She's not where she was,

so she's a lot better.

300

I mean, she had terrible

resource guarding.

301

She used to guard the couch, me food,

anything she can get her hands on.

302

Hands pause on like, so she, you drop

like a receipt or something, she'd

303

go, I'll have that and I'll guard it.

304

She felt really good about doing

that, so I've done a lot of

305

resource guarding training with

her and behavior modification and

306

reactivity and tons of training.

307

She's a little trick master.

308

She really loves training, thankfully.

309

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: That's.

310

That's so good.

311

And I could relate to when you said

about that she needed to stay with

312

you as a dog professional because had

she had gone to Joe Pub, no offense,

313

like, she probably wouldn't have.

314

where she is now.

315

So, and that's the same with my

own SA dog, for goodness sake.

316

Oh, it did cross my mind at one point

a few years ago that maybe we would've

317

been better rehoming him, but I actually

then learned all about SA and became

318

a SA Certified Behavior consultant.

319

And I often say to my husband that it's

better that we've got him because had

320

he have gone to some normal Joe public

that didn't have my experience or

321

qualifications, he wouldn't have survived.

322

So it's better that he

stayed with me because.

323

Obviously, I know a bit about it and we

can control, we can manage it and we've

324

got a multi dog household, so it's even

more of a big mission to sort stuff out.

325

But yeah, so I can totally relate to that.

326

So, let's move on to our next section,

which is all about understanding the

327

Chihuahua and our small dog breeds.

328

So what are some of the biggest

misconceptions people have, Hayley, about

329

Chihuahuas and other small breeds please?

330

Hayley: I think there's a

huge stigma attached to small

331

dogs in general, isn't there?

332

Yeah, basically.

333

I think a lot of people think that

they're like angry handbag dogs.

334

Does that make sense?

335

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I've never heard that.

336

That's brilliant.

337

Hayley: You know that they're spoiled

and they're aggressive and snappy

338

and yappy and you know, they're

mean and all that sort of stuff.

339

But the, the truth is that

they're 100% misunderstood.

340

That's a big thing.

341

Yeah.

342

Yeah, and I think that the majority,

I might be wrong, but the majority

343

of aggression that you see with small

dogs in general is, is well, I think is

344

because they want to defend themselves.

345

So they live, they live, first

of all, you gotta think, well,

346

how, how big are these dogs?

347

I mean, they're tiny, right?

348

So if you are only nine or 10 inches

tall, you are literally living in

349

a line land of giants, aren't you?

350

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

351

Hayley: giant hands, giant dogs, giant.

352

Everything is huge.

353

And I know that they're born into it and

they do get used to it, but still you,

354

there's gotta be some element of that.

355

That's a bit unnerving for them, isn't it?

356

Isn't it?

357

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Definitely.

358

Hayley: and what I often get people to

do, my clients who have chi hours, like if

359

they're, if their dog is displaying fear

or aggression or whatever, is to maybe if

360

they can get down into a plank and hold

that plank so they can do a workout at the

361

same time and start looking around them.

362

And trying to visualize what it's like

being that small like all the time.

363

And if you can move in that plaque or

crawl along the floor you know, if you

364

can imagine and visualizing in your

head that you are now crawling out

365

of the door into the street, you are

looking around the world is pretty big.

366

Right.

367

So I think people need to think about

like, actually how big are these dogs?

368

They're not very big at all.

369

And it, it, first of all, being

that small does come with its

370

you know, it's quite scary.

371

So I think that's the first thing.

372

And, but I think a lot of people don't

understand that a lot of dog, a lot of

373

chihuahuas do have some pain as well.

374

That's quite common in chihuahuas and

small breeds, like they've got dental

375

issue or they might have dental issues.

376

They're about overcrowding and

we and, and sating patella, which

377

I was going to talk to you about

later on, but a lot of small breeds,

378

especially Chihuahuas, are overbred.

379

So there's a lot of bad lines.

380

I'm probably gonna get shot down for this.

381

There's a lot of

382

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh,

383

Hayley: good ERs out there doing all

the right things, but there are more.

384

Bad pre breeding practices.

385

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, I totally

386

Hayley: And so some of it

could be genetic as well.

387

So I think you've got bad genetics.

388

You've got people maybe not

understanding that it's, they're

389

not being mean or snappy, they're

not being difficult, they're not,

390

they're just not coping very well.

391

And then you've got maybe

a pain element as well.

392

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

393

Yeah, that's so true.

394

And yeah, we must all look like

huge giants compared to them.

395

Hayley: Yeah, it's like, well, if

you think about it, if you have a

396

a hand as big as you are, bigger

than your head coming towards

397

you, that's quite scary, isn't it?

398

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

That is, I've never even really

399

thought of it like that before.

400

So, that's so interesting.

401

Brilliant.

402

So what makes small dog like chai so

special to work with if and what do

403

they need for must to really thrive?

404

Hayley?

405

Hayley: I think every chi, well, most

Chihuahua, I think every Chiara actually

406

I've actually met and worked with are

extremely trainable and very worky.

407

They've got quite a good work like Drive.

408

I.

409

Yeah.

410

Bo especially, I mean, she would do

anything for food, let's face it.

411

But every two hour I've seen as a a

client session, they've, they've been

412

quite quick and very highly trainable.

413

So I think maybe there's

an element of that.

414

They're just maybe looking for

something to do, which I, I love.

415

They're, they've, so if you want, I mean,

not all, I'm gen, I'm generalizing here.

416

So not all trials are gonna be the same,

but if you want a a quick fast thinking

417

dog that you want a really tiny dog,

probably get two hours and you see them,

418

don't you, doing all sorts of stuff.

419

But Bose being an absolute joy to train.

420

She's a little powerhouse.

421

She really is.

422

She loves muzzle training,

cooperative care, all the vet stuff.

423

She loves tricks.

424

You know, those are tricks.

425

So I don't think people are doing enough

training with them as a, as a whole, and

426

I think that's causing some problems.

427

Like they're going self-employed

or they're trying to find

428

their own entertainment.

429

And possibly that's where some

of this barking is coming from.

430

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

431

Hayley: they may be a little bit bored.

432

I love the channel Kiko up, you

know, ke up, up with Emily Lala.

433

Well, she's got, she's had

two hours there, hasn't she?

434

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

435

Hayley: a little chi hour

called Epic at such a cool name.

436

So

437

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Epic.

438

Hayley: epic.

439

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

For a small dog.

440

Hayley: Yeah.

441

Yeah.

442

Epic is so cool.

443

And she's got that little chihuahua epic.

444

Now if anyone wants to find a, any

tricks to teach their chihuahua,

445

go to Kiko Pub on YouTube.

446

And I'm giving her a plug here.

447

Actually, I, but

448

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

No, it's alright.

449

Hayley: it's so, it's, it's so cool.

450

There's loads of stuff on there, but yeah.

451

So,

452

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: There

453

Hayley: It's thinking that they are

untrainable or stupid or something is,

454

is completely the opposite, you know?

455

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

yeah, definitely.

456

why do you think they're often

underestimated, misjudged,

457

even by dog professionals?

458

Hayley: I guess you're talking

about, are you talking about just

459

dog trainers or dog professionals,

like rumors and things as well?

460

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Well,

yeah, I guess as a whole really, I

461

mean, I think we, we often can, probably

guilty of sort of, misjudging 'em just

462

because they're, oh, know, small dog

463

Hayley: Yeah.

464

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

or they're just yappy.

465

I hate

466

Hayley: Yeah.

467

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

so yeah, I mean, maybe just.

468

From a dog trainer perspective, I mean,

this goes out to pet parents and obviously

469

professionals as well, but a lot of

professionals are pet parents, so yeah,

470

probably from your perspective as a dog

trainer, what you've had why would you

471

think dog trainers misjudged them and

472

Hayley: I, I think a lot of dog

trainers are mainly mainly big

473

dog people from what I've seen.

474

I don't know why.

475

I just yeah, from what I've seen.

476

I dunno, I'm gonna get

any messages about this.

477

But yeah, there are some trainers

that, that there's a couple of really

478

good trainers actually that do train

chihuahuas, but I think they are mainly

479

dog big, just big dog people in general.

480

And you know, if anyone came to

me with, oh, I've got this, she

481

chihuahua, she's, she's aggressive,

she's fearful, she's aggressive,

482

she's biting me and biting my family

and this and that and this and that.

483

I would say that's my bag.

484

That's my cup of tea.

485

And I think a lot of trainers

would run for the hills, but

486

for me that's, that's perfect.

487

That's ideal.

488

I think partly, 'cause I've lived,

I've lived, lived with it anyway and

489

I, I have a lot of experience and I

just like working with those dogs.

490

But I think it's, it's a, whether

you are a small dog person or a

491

big dog person probably doesn't

answer that question, but yeah.

492

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

No, but that's okay.

493

I'm a small dog person.

494

I do a lot of dog walking now.

495

I did do dog training for

quite a while, I concentrate.

496

I've gone back to dog walking

and it, I think you put out what

497

you get back what you put out.

498

And I don't know.

499

I mean, I've got a lot of

little dogs that I walk.

500

I mean, the biggest dog I

walk is a lab and a wired.

501

A German wired haired pointer, and

he's just all gangling, all legs.

502

So, I've got a lot of the cockapoo

breeds and the poodle doodle mixes,

503

and I've obviously got toy poodles

myself, so I know the breed, I know

504

their cracks, but I think that's okay.

505

You you are allowed to

have your preference.

506

You might prefer to work with small

dogs, medium dogs or bigger dogs.

507

And

508

Hayley: Absolutely.

509

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: know?

510

Hayley: The other element that's, that's

pushing me more towards small dogs

511

is when I, of course I love all dogs.

512

I love all dogs.

513

We used to have, we had a boxer when

I was growing up and I love boxes

514

and you know, I love, I like, I love

all dogs, but just have a little.

515

A preference for the small ones,

but one of the main reasons why I'm

516

working with mainly small dogs now is

because also I didn't hurt my wrist.

517

I broke my wrist really

badly about three years ago.

518

It was a compound fracture, so there was

bone and everything coming up, but, so

519

it was a really bad break and I didn't

really, I didn't think I was actually

520

gonna be able to use my hand again.

521

So I went through rigorous physio and my

physio literally said small dogs forever.

522

And he pointed at me, he said, I think

it's probably a good idea that you do

523

just continue to work with small dogs

and, and, you know, pass the others on.

524

So if I do get a powerful breed,

I will, I will pass it on.

525

So, so there is that as well.

526

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: That's

527

Hayley: it's working.

528

Okay.

529

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mean.

530

Oh, I'm pleased to hear that.

531

No, and I've got like a lady that works

with me and she has a lot of the big

532

Hayley: Yeah.

533

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: and she

has a lot of the bigger characters and

534

the dogs that initially had to be walked

one-to-one, and then she's successfully

535

worked with them and rehabilitated and

that they can go on small Greek walks now.

536

But she seems she's only small

herself, but she seems to attract

537

the bigger, powerful breeds.

538

But she loves working with the bigger.

539

The dogs, her favorite dogs are Goldie,

540

Hayley: Oh, well, they're

lovely, aren't they?

541

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: and

we've got four of them on our books and

542

three of them are be under the age of

543

Hayley: Oh my goodness.

544

Teenage goldies.

545

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: seems.

546

Hayley: Yeah.

547

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, we're seeing that.

548

But she just seems to attract

the bigger dogs and she likes

549

the big dogs and that's fine.

550

It's whatever.

551

Whatever you're happy with.

552

Right.

553

Let's move on to our next section,

which is all about the emotional

554

lives of these small dogs, Hayley.

555

oh, we've sort of touched on it,

but many small dogs do get labeled

556

as dramatic in inverted commas

or spoiled in inverted commas.

557

But what's actually going on beneath those

558

Hayley: Oh, so this is

a big one, isn't it?

559

Yeah, this is a big one, but

I'm gonna try and keep it.

560

Quite sure.

561

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

that's okay.

562

No

563

Hayley: so I think in general, and I'm

being, I'm generalizing here, is again,

564

I think a lot of small dogs, tiny dogs

especially, are manhandled and overhand.

565

So there's a lot of handling

going on with, with small dogs.

566

Yeah.

567

And, you know, I don't, maybe, maybe

try this, but maybe, I know you only

568

have to type in like angry Chihuahua on

YouTube and you see a lot of abuse dog be

569

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I, I don't mean

570

Hayley: No, I know.

571

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: but

I Yeah, I know what you're saying.

572

Hayley: Angry.

573

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

how inappropriate.

574

No, I know

575

Hayley: Yeah.

576

Yeah.

577

But yeah, I mean, you type in angry

Chihuahua and, and there's a lot

578

of abuse going on, unfortunately.

579

It's appalling.

580

Dogs being poked and you know, all

these trends on TikTok and things, and

581

because they're small, they're easy to

pick up, they're easy to do stuff with.

582

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: oh.

583

Hayley: You know, I ha I hate it.

584

And the old saying rings true.

585

Just because you can

doesn't mean you should.

586

And I think that's what's happening.

587

Just because I've got a small dog that

I can, you know, Chuck around the room

588

or whatever, I'm gonna do it for likes.

589

I know we're sort of touching

on social media there.

590

So I think I read somewhere that

Chihuahua is the most abused breed

591

in terms of like handling abuse.

592

Yeah.

593

So I could be wrong about that.

594

So I think a lot of manhandling

is going on over handling people

595

and picking them up a lot.

596

And if you imagine that you are walking

around your house, that should be safe.

597

You know, it should be a safe environment

and at any given moment you could get

598

lifted up really quickly off the floor

really high, and your stomach lurches.

599

You're like, what's going on?

600

That's what people are doing with these

little, not everyone, with the, with

601

these little dogs and sort of clonking

them from A to B like them cats.

602

You see it, don't you?

603

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: exactly.

604

Hayley: and on TV and everything,

a dog will just get hoisted

605

up just really quickly.

606

So that's, and there's lots

of things going on with the

607

manhandling, but that's one of the

things that is happening as well.

608

So I'm very

609

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

It's got a lot.

610

Hayley: sorry.

611

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

612

It's got a lot to answer for media

and social media films and that.

613

It's got a lot to

614

Hayley: Yeah.

615

Yeah.

616

And I dunno, people just assume

that because they, they're

617

small, that we can, we can handle

them more maybe than a big dog.

618

I mean, imagine dragging

around a German Shepherd.

619

You wouldn't, many people

do, but you know what I mean.

620

It's like people.

621

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

one of them up

622

Hayley: You want, you couldn't,

you can't do it, can you?

623

Yeah.

624

So I think that's one of the things.

625

And you know, I think a lot of.

626

Body language signals are

being missed or being ignored.

627

So if you do think that the dog's

stressed, you'll, you are possibly

628

gonna ignore that because you think,

oh, you're just being dramatic, just

629

being silly foot growling, you know?

630

Whereas if you've got a John

Shepherd growling in your

631

face, it's a bit more serious.

632

You are gonna step back.

633

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

this is the thing.

634

I'm glad you said that because the

thing is like, it seems to be taken more

635

seriously when it is the size of a German

Shepherd or an exile bully or whatever but

636

when a little dog growls or snails or it

is just not taken seriously, and it should

637

Hayley: Yeah.

638

And it

639

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

they all right, all it all

640

Hayley: absolutely, and it, it almost

sometimes it's laughter as well.

641

Sometimes that growling

laughter and mocks and,

642

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

643

Hayley: and, and where's

that growling come from?

644

It's come from an emotion.

645

Of probably fear.

646

So you're laughing at dog.

647

That's frightened.

648

Doesn't make sense, does it?

649

But you know, I,

650

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: And.

651

Hayley: you only know what you know.

652

Right.

653

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, I love that.

654

I say that a lot on this podcast.

655

While you dunno what you don't

know, you only know what you know.

656

And we're really big on educating.

657

And what I was gonna say is, it was

brought up on a podcast episode the

658

other day, is that obviously they

are missing those subtle signs.

659

Body language is, I'm big

advocate and passionate about body

660

language that every pet parent.

661

Professional needs to learn

more about body language.

662

But you know, educating

them about those subtle body

663

language, those calming signals.

664

But someone was saying the other day

that the weights of the eyes, people

665

just see it as it's cute, but it's

666

Hayley: I know.

667

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

The dogs.

668

The dogs stress the

dogs in fear and people

669

Hayley: it's

670

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: they?

671

Hayley: you see it a lot, don't you?

672

Now it's called side eye, I'm thinking.

673

No, that's side, that's.

674

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

675

Puppy, dog

676

Hayley: that's way lie.

677

That's not side eye.

678

It's not, he's either, it's a warning

or, you know, it's like, don't come

679

over here, don't, don't, you know,

I've got this resource or whatever

680

it may be, or I'm not comfortable.

681

Yeah, and that's mocked as well.

682

You also see what you also see

with little dogs especially,

683

is the kiss to dismiss lick.

684

So the kiss to dismiss.

685

You see a lot.

686

So when dogs lick your face, so when

you see people pick up a dog close

687

to their face and the dog, the, the,

the little chihuahua or whatever,

688

it's, it's licking frantically at that

person's face or licking the face.

689

A lot of people will assume

that that's affection.

690

That lick is affection in, in many cases,

I'm gonna say many, maybe some cases that

691

dog is actually licking to move you away.

692

So it's a kiss to dismiss,

so it's actually a

693

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

displacement.

694

Hayley: kind of give me

space signal instead.

695

And you see a lot of that, so always

kissing me and I'm like, well.

696

Maybe not, I don't know.

697

But the, the, the, the one way to, to,

to see if this works is if that dog then

698

comes back at you, at your face when

you hold the dog away from your face.

699

If your dog goes back into your

face, then that's probably affection.

700

If they don't, that's probably not.

701

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

702

And as Joe Public, if we don't

know, we dunno what we dunno.

703

We don't realize that before

you know it, there could be a

704

Hayley: Yeah.

705

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: in your

706

Hayley: Yeah.

707

And all these little things.

708

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

escalated it

709

Hayley: absolutely.

710

And all these little things

are being potentially missed.

711

And what happens is you get to the

stage where the dog has to escalate

712

those little whispers and it, they

start rowling, then they start snapping,

713

and then they start actual biting.

714

And when you've got a dog that's biting,

that's a dog that's quite stressed because

715

they've not been listened to previously.

716

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, so important.

717

How can we better support those anxious,

I hate this term, reactive because there's

718

so many reasons a dog could be reactive.

719

So I know that spicy is a big word

now, but how can we better support

720

these anxious and nervous, spicy

small dogs who are constantly being

721

overstimulated by the world around them?

722

Hayley: That's a very, very good question.

723

First of all, I think that if

you do have a a reactive kind of.

724

Quotation marks.

725

Reactive dog, a dog that is not coping

in certain situations, they are growling,

726

snapping at people or other dogs.

727

Then definitely get a

vet check, first of all.

728

So that's the first thing we need to

do is rule out pain or discomfort.

729

And as I mentioned two hours are

very prone to dental problems.

730

And also luxating patella, which is

where the knee slips off the femur.

731

And there's different grades of that.

732

So like, I think five's high grade.

733

Like operation.

734

You need an operation.

735

But

736

A lot of lls living with one or two

and there's gotta be some pain there.

737

So

738

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

739

Hayley: again, that's

740

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

741

Hayley: breeding practices as well.

742

They shouldn't really have that,

but fact check first of all.

743

The second thing is we need

to start advocating more.

744

Advocating what advocate?

745

Advocating more for our

little dogs as well.

746

And don't worry about other

people and hurting their feelings.

747

So if you're out and about with your

dog and you don't really want anyone to

748

touch your dog, don't, don't let them.

749

I'll, yeah.

750

So when I'm out with Bo, I have a rule.

751

No one's allowed to touch her acting,

no one's allowed to touch her anyway.

752

'cause she probably won't let

them, but, you know she's cute.

753

I mean, the thing is, she's cute, right?

754

So

755

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

756

Hayley: you're gonna draw,

you're gonna draw attention.

757

So.

758

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I know they mean well, but.

759

Hayley: Yeah.

760

The challenge that we have is that

we do have these cute small dogs,

761

and as primates, as human beings, our

natural sort of desire is to reach

762

out and squeeze the cheeks and to

ruffle the hair and, and it for dogs,

763

you know, touch them and pet them and

stare at them and things like that.

764

But that can cause issues.

765

The Anthologist Conrad Lorenz.

766

Coin that as the baby schema effect

is when we want to, we are drawn

767

to these animals or these, these

baby features, which is the large

768

forehead, the big eyes, small, no

small mouth, the wi wiggly little body,

769

and we are naturally drawn to those.

770

So that's called the baby schema effect.

771

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh

772

Hayley: Yeah, I only recently

realized what that was, but they

773

have the acute factors, so it is

a double-edged sword for them.

774

Yes, they're cute, we wanna keep

them safe, but at the same time,

775

we've gotta keep them safe and

well-meaning people as well.

776

So, you know, the, the body

language needs we display as human

777

beings when we, we approach dogs

normally, if you're not really.

778

With some of the body language is

that we will approach the dog head on.

779

We'll stare at the dog, we'll

lean over and go, oh, you're cute.

780

You know?

781

And for some dogs that can be

really threatening, so you can have

782

the sweetest old granny, sweetest

little granny come up to you and

783

say the nicest things to your dog.

784

And that the body language is

saying something completely

785

the opposite to your dog.

786

Your dog's misinterpreting that

and going, oh, she's gonna kill me.

787

You know?

788

And this poor little old grannys

is that I just wanna touch you.

789

And you're like, oh god.

790

So.

791

Yeah, go away.

792

So I think knowing knowing how

to greet dogs, and this is a

793

huge topic in itself, isn't it?

794

I mean, I'm, I never not

want to touch a dog, right?

795

When I'm in a client's house and

I've got all these cute dogs up

796

working with, I wanna touch them.

797

'cause you know,

798

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: No,

799

Hayley: I'm a human.

800

I bet you do as well.

801

When you are training and walking,

you wanna get your hands down,

802

you wanna get on the floor with

'em and stuff, but sometimes you

803

can't because that body language is

telling that dog something different.

804

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: exactly.

805

Hayley: I go in and I do the invisible

dog exercise where I go in and sit

806

down and that dog comes in and I

just think that that dog's invisible.

807

There's no dog here,

808

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

809

Hayley: hard.

810

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: that's

811

Hayley: That's really hard.

812

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: hard.

813

Hayley: I'm like, he's so cute, you know?

814

And I'm sitting there going

815

my dog's invisible.

816

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

it's our instant.

817

As soon as we see a dog, a

little dog, oh my God, it's so

818

Hayley: The baby schema effect.

819

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: to

820

Hayley: they got the key factor.

821

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I just wanna, oh.

822

Hayley: Yeah, it's that

cute acute aggression.

823

You've gotta, oh, it's like your,

your auntie or your, your granny.

824

You know, when you're a child

and you are, you are cute.

825

When you're, when you, when you were a

kid and they come in and they get they

826

your cheeks or they ruffle your hair, you

can't help, they can't help themselves.

827

It's a bit like that.

828

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

They meanwhile, but

829

Hayley: They, meanwhile.

830

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

need to read the.

831

Hayley: So I do the invisible dog exercise

until I, I've, and that allows that dog.

832

Then if you're looking away and,

and not inter interacting with that

833

dog, that dog then can smell you.

834

And that's how they ga They gather

their information about you.

835

They can approach you and they can

sniff you and they can sniff your

836

bag in your shoes and everything.

837

And they can go, oh, I

think we're safe here.

838

I think this person's okay.

839

She's not looking at me.

840

She's.

841

You know, I feel a bit safer with

this person, and then when that dog

842

wants to interact with me, then I

can start, you know, being a bit

843

sort of warming up to that dog.

844

But it is hard and at first, so you

can imagine if you didn't have that

845

knowledge, you'd just go straight in.

846

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, definitely.

847

Oh, brilliant.

848

let's move on to our next section, which

is all about training, tips and lifestyle

849

support for our small breed dogs.

850

So what are, we've touched on a

little bit, but what are some of

851

the common mistakes people make when

training or handling small breeds?

852

Hayley: let's think about training.

853

You might not have thought of these,

but especially the number two.

854

But I think for training definitely

people are using, like think about

855

this tiny dog, tiny tummy when you

are training, actually doing training.

856

People, I say, give too big a treat.

857

So that's the first

thing that we would say.

858

They come out with this and I'm, you

know, we've all done it, haven't we?

859

So you've got these big

chunks of cheese or whatever.

860

But so I think that when

people are training tiny dogs,

861

they're using two big treats.

862

It's hard for them to eat and then

they're getting full and that dog

863

loses interest in the training session.

864

So what I like to do is I like

to use really soft, meaty treats

865

that I can kind of just rip off

and give the dog a crumb as such.

866

And that's the treat.

867

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

868

Hayley: got little cat lick things.

869

You've got there's little Ard and

Grange name Drop Ard and Grange little

870

tubes that you can like give as a lick

so the dog could have a lick instead

871

of treat and all that sort of stuff.

872

So I think really how you are preparing

your treats is, is really important.

873

And the other thing I think, which maybe

people don't think about is, is from

874

a walking equipment point of view is.

875

That tags and clip lead clips, I see

a lot of people putting like Jack

876

Russell size even, or cock spaniel size

lead clips on their dog, like leads.

877

On the harness or big tags

878

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, it's

879

Hayley: which weigh

880

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: heavy

881

Hayley: Yeah.

882

Heavy tags.

883

Heavy clips that weigh down.

884

I dunno if you've seen that.

885

And I always, I always, I always

sort of grimace a little bit.

886

Oh, it looks a bit uncomfortable.

887

And these big tags that jangle, maybe

they've got a bell on or something.

888

We find that with a lot with little dogs.

889

Oh, well I can't find him.

890

You know, if I can hear

the bell, I can hear him.

891

And sometimes if you've got a

bell or something that's really.

892

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: a.

893

Hayley: Yeah, it feels

like a cat sometimes.

894

If you can't, if you, you've

got a lot of noise around you

895

that's quite unnerving as well.

896

Then you're being picked up

every five minutes, you know?

897

So think about what's, what's

on your dog, like tags.

898

Think of a cat tag, maybe

something that's not gonna dangle.

899

Get a lead that's like a puppy

lead with like a puppy size clip.

900

You know, the clip, I mean,

on the end of the lead.

901

Yeah, you attached the harness or collar.

902

So think about how heavy

is it for that dog because

903

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Really good

904

Hayley: it's, you know, on a sort

of small frame, it kind of, it's

905

really heavy and it kind of drags

'em down a bit and you gotta think

906

about their little joints as well.

907

You know,

908

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

909

Hayley: that might not be

what you're thinking of.

910

But those are two things that kind of,

911

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: no.

912

Hayley: I was thinking.

913

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

No, definitely I wouldn't.

914

I just wouldn't have

even thought about that.

915

But yeah, I used to use the little treats.

916

They were semi moist and

they're any small anyway.

917

But I would either break it into

half or into four little bits

918

Hayley: yeah, I'm always surprised.

919

I'll, I'll kind of rip off a little crumb,

especially if they've got like a Chihuahua

920

or Maltese or something really small dog.

921

I'll rip off a little crumb.

922

I go, there you go.

923

That's a rep.

924

Really.

925

So yeah, so that whole treat will

last you that whole training session

926

that that little nugget there will

last you that whole training session.

927

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: because

that's the other thing is people are

928

worried about overfeeding, aren't they?

929

And all these treats,

you hear it all the time.

930

Oh, you're just gonna get fat.

931

Hayley: you have a gravy

bone for one, one sit.

932

You know,

933

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

yeah, exactly.

934

Right.

935

So what does a great enrichment routine

look like for our smaller dogs With big

936

Hayley: I, I really think that you

can't go wrong with scent work.

937

You know and I'm keeping gonna

keep it really, really simple here.

938

Like any sniffing games people are

quite amazed when I'll just literally

939

go into a room and hide treats around a

room and then let the dog in and you'll

940

see that dog working straight away.

941

It's incredible and they love it.

942

Sorry.

943

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

944

I love hearing that sniffing.

945

I love that sniffing

946

Hayley: and that's concentration,

947

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: it's

948

Hayley: that sniffing, that concentration,

they'll, they go into work mode.

949

Honestly, they absolutely love it.

950

Not all dogs, but a lot of dogs love

it, and I don't think you can go

951

wrong with any kind of scent work.

952

So it doesn't have to be complicated.

953

Like I said, I do a treasure hunt

with bow, so two or three rounds

954

of treasure hunt where I just hide

955

Any room, make it difficult as

they get used to it, and she's

956

shattered by the end of that.

957

And she's worked her brain,

she's worked her nose.

958

I'm happy 'cause she's not yapping at me.

959

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

960

Like, go find it

961

Hayley: Yeah.

962

Yes.

963

Go find it.

964

So you can do that in the garden as well.

965

Scatter feeding, anything

that incorporates that.

966

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, and I kind of use like

967

Hayley: Yeah.

968

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: snuffle

mats and things like that for that

969

because mine are raw fed, so they're on L

970

Hayley: Yeah.

971

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

All these different like

972

toys that you can use.

973

So, and the licking then obviously helps

with their arousal levels and helps bring

974

Hayley: Absolutely.

975

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

mental and

976

Hayley: Sniffing, licking, and chewing.

977

Are those three, those three kind of.

978

Activities that help to calm

dogs a little bit, don't they?

979

And with the sniffing, especially that

study that, that that was done, that

980

it, it pro it's proven to lower that

those pulse rates or that pulse rate,

981

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm-hmm.

982

Hayley: a dog's sniffing it,

983

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

984

Hayley: actually physically re relax them.

985

So it's great.

986

It's brilliant.

987

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

988

Do you have any favorite lifestyle

hacks that might help these small

989

breeds feel more safe and empowered at

990

Hayley: Yeah, so going back to the

picking up thing, which I think a lot of

991

people do do I like to teach people to

teach their dogs a nose to hand target.

992

So.

993

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh yes.

994

Hayley: I use it, I probably use

it every day with Bo actually.

995

I use it so much.

996

It's so useful.

997

It's a, you can use it

for lots of applications.

998

So nose, hand, nose to hand target

is when you teach your dog to

999

touch your hand with its nose.

00:41:55,518 --> 00:41:57,798

And that means that you

can now move your dog.

00:41:57,828 --> 00:42:00,618

'cause the, the hand becomes

a target and a moving target.

00:42:00,618 --> 00:42:04,338

And as you progress, you can

move your dog from point a.

00:42:04,698 --> 00:42:07,158

To point B without even

ever touching your dog.

00:42:07,398 --> 00:42:08,238

So I love that.

00:42:08,718 --> 00:42:13,188

So if you want to move your dog from

one end of the sofa to the other end of

00:42:13,188 --> 00:42:17,088

the sofa, instead of just grabbing your

dog and picking it up and moving it, you

00:42:17,088 --> 00:42:21,288

could extend your hand, say, touch, and

your dog will move to where your hand is.

00:42:21,288 --> 00:42:22,368

So I love that.

00:42:22,818 --> 00:42:27,798

So that's the one thing I would think I,

I would definitely, recommend people do,

00:42:28,158 --> 00:42:29,988

do teach their two hours as a hand target.

00:42:30,538 --> 00:42:34,378

Because there's so many uses and

it ta I like to sort of do a lot

00:42:34,378 --> 00:42:38,188

of hands off stuff, so, you know,

the more hands off, the better.

00:42:38,188 --> 00:42:39,898

I think I

00:42:40,135 --> 00:42:40,855

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

definitely.

00:42:41,038 --> 00:42:42,508

Hayley: you probably agree

with me on this as well.

00:42:42,508 --> 00:42:42,958

Recall.

00:42:43,198 --> 00:42:48,058

Recall is, well recall could

save your dog's life one day.

00:42:49,768 --> 00:42:53,938

It's such an amazing skill to have

and I think I've seen so many people.

00:42:54,838 --> 00:43:00,088

I mean, with, with small dogs,

there isn't that much training

00:43:00,088 --> 00:43:01,588

that goes on with them anyway.

00:43:01,588 --> 00:43:04,378

But recall's one of those things

that, like you, you can't,

00:43:05,218 --> 00:43:06,628

you can't sort of miss that.

00:43:06,658 --> 00:43:07,768

It has to be done.

00:43:08,858 --> 00:43:14,063

Imagine if you were walking and you

saw a group, for example, maybe a

00:43:14,063 --> 00:43:17,198

group of large dogs in the distance and

they're coming towards you and you're

00:43:17,198 --> 00:43:19,328

thinking, well, they're probably okay.

00:43:19,913 --> 00:43:23,903

But I don't really want my dog to be then

in the middle of a group of large dogs.

00:43:23,933 --> 00:43:24,623

That makes sense.

00:43:24,623 --> 00:43:25,493

They're probably gonna be fine.

00:43:25,493 --> 00:43:27,893

But if you are small, you can get knocked.

00:43:28,133 --> 00:43:29,333

It might mean a vet bill.

00:43:29,603 --> 00:43:34,403

So having that emergency instant recall

that you, you'd say fluffy come and

00:43:34,403 --> 00:43:37,223

you could call them away straight

away without getting into trouble,

00:43:37,223 --> 00:43:40,553

is a potential for lifesaver almost.

00:43:41,243 --> 00:43:41,813

So I think

00:43:41,945 --> 00:43:45,425

Hand target, which can also

then double as a, as a recall

00:43:45,425 --> 00:43:47,525

and a strong emergency recall.

00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:50,360

Is, is it's non-negotiable.

00:43:52,033 --> 00:43:52,543

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

00:43:52,693 --> 00:43:53,353

I love that.

00:43:53,353 --> 00:43:53,803

Brilliant.

00:43:54,103 --> 00:43:54,853

Thank you so much.

00:43:54,853 --> 00:43:58,243

So let's move on to our final

section before we start wrapping up.

00:43:58,243 --> 00:44:02,783

So, this is all about advocacy

and changing the narrative.

00:44:03,053 --> 00:44:03,743

Okay.

00:44:04,043 --> 00:44:09,923

So how do we start to shift the wider

conversation around our smaller breeds?

00:44:09,925 --> 00:44:12,265

Hayley: Well, let's, let's drop the label.

00:44:12,265 --> 00:44:13,195

Small dog syndrome.

00:44:13,195 --> 00:44:13,315

Huh?

00:44:15,843 --> 00:44:17,918

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

A doubt we're all guilty of it.

00:44:17,918 --> 00:44:21,433

I don't, I'm not as bad as I was,

but before I got into training, yeah.

00:44:22,345 --> 00:44:23,155

Hayley: Let's drop it.

00:44:23,155 --> 00:44:24,085

I mean, what does it.

00:44:24,173 --> 00:44:24,393

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: it.

00:44:24,753 --> 00:44:25,353

I hate it.

00:44:25,780 --> 00:44:27,880

Hayley: I mean, it doesn't really exist.

00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:29,140

I mean, what, what is it?

00:44:29,140 --> 00:44:34,180

I mean, it's a, it's an umbrella

term that is given to dogs

00:44:34,180 --> 00:44:36,850

that are supposedly difficult.

00:44:36,910 --> 00:44:40,630

But as we talked, we talked

throughout this po this episode,

00:44:41,110 --> 00:44:43,930

maybe they're not being difficult,

maybe they're just being understood.

00:44:43,930 --> 00:44:46,720

Maybe they're in pain, maybe

they're fearful, whatever it may be.

00:44:47,020 --> 00:44:49,000

So let's start dropping that label.

00:44:49,780 --> 00:44:52,840

I think also we need to start

advocating for our dogs a lot

00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:57,700

more and stop or prevent strangers

just randomly touching them.

00:44:57,880 --> 00:44:59,200

'cause that's not helping at all,

00:44:59,323 --> 00:44:59,613

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

00:45:00,430 --> 00:45:00,820

Hayley: you know?

00:45:01,223 --> 00:45:01,443

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: not

00:45:01,450 --> 00:45:04,600

Hayley: I mean you can, yeah.

00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,660

I mean, you can get like yellow

gear, can't you, which says

00:45:07,770 --> 00:45:08,310

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

00:45:08,313 --> 00:45:09,363

Hayley: do not touch and things.

00:45:09,363 --> 00:45:12,903

But really if you've got a tiny dog,

you, there's tiny writing involved there.

00:45:13,383 --> 00:45:17,293

So, but I would definitely, think

about, you know, not letting as

00:45:17,293 --> 00:45:19,063

many people touch your dog randomly.

00:45:19,093 --> 00:45:21,883

'cause it's important for that

dog to have consent as well.

00:45:23,380 --> 00:45:23,800

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

00:45:24,130 --> 00:45:25,735

With the yellow gear we have had Sarah

00:45:26,038 --> 00:45:26,158

Hayley: Hmm.

00:45:26,230 --> 00:45:28,590

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: of

my anxious doc and I I think it's just

00:45:28,590 --> 00:45:34,500

educating again, the public, that yellow

means like, stay away or be aware.

00:45:34,598 --> 00:45:34,718

Hayley: I

00:45:34,950 --> 00:45:35,160

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Do you know

00:45:35,193 --> 00:45:36,223

Hayley: think it's

getting better, isn't it?

00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:36,570

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: that.

00:45:37,530 --> 00:45:40,290

Yeah, just get that out

that you see yellow.

00:45:40,290 --> 00:45:42,005

You need to be mindful that

00:45:42,278 --> 00:45:42,548

Hayley: Yeah.

00:45:42,905 --> 00:45:44,195

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

needs some space.

00:45:44,305 --> 00:45:45,655

Hayley: I think it's

becoming more well known,

00:45:45,773 --> 00:45:46,043

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: it's,

00:45:46,075 --> 00:45:46,735

Hayley: which is good.

00:45:47,003 --> 00:45:47,543

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

00:45:48,323 --> 00:45:49,373

Yeah, definitely.

00:45:49,713 --> 00:45:50,373

No, I love that.

00:45:50,373 --> 00:45:50,823

Thank you.

00:45:50,823 --> 00:45:55,893

So what would be your advice to any

small dog guardian, small pet parent

00:45:56,103 --> 00:45:58,923

who feels judged or just dismissed?

00:45:59,345 --> 00:46:01,595

Hayley: Yeah, I, this is a big one too.

00:46:01,595 --> 00:46:07,295

I don't think I, I think people should

really stop listening to other people.

00:46:08,090 --> 00:46:13,010

Like, you know, like Dave in the

park with his rotty or whatever, like

00:46:13,700 --> 00:46:14,960

your dog's got small dog syndrome.

00:46:15,003 --> 00:46:15,813

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

he is had dogs for

00:46:15,945 --> 00:46:16,235

Hayley: Yeah,

00:46:16,588 --> 00:46:17,728

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

he means well, but

00:46:18,590 --> 00:46:19,130

Hayley: yeah, yeah.

00:46:19,130 --> 00:46:21,500

It's well meaning people

don't listen to them.

00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:26,900

You know, your dog you can't compare

your little dog to a Labrador or

00:46:26,900 --> 00:46:30,470

a spaniel or a larger dog because

it's a bit different, isn't it?

00:46:30,470 --> 00:46:31,400

Having a little dog.

00:46:32,180 --> 00:46:32,810

Yeah.

00:46:32,900 --> 00:46:34,310

And, and you're not alone.

00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:36,260

So come and join my free group.

00:46:37,340 --> 00:46:38,865

I've got free, a free training group.

00:46:38,865 --> 00:46:39,950

We'll, we'll talk about in a minute.

00:46:40,728 --> 00:46:41,633

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

we talking about

00:46:41,743 --> 00:46:41,893

Hayley: yeah.

00:46:42,115 --> 00:46:42,475

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I wanna join it.

00:46:43,813 --> 00:46:46,543

Hayley: Yeah, I don't think a lot of

larger dog people really understand

00:46:46,543 --> 00:46:48,193

what it's like to have a small dog.

00:46:48,683 --> 00:46:51,983

I think Steve Mann from the INDT

did a video actually about small dog

00:46:51,983 --> 00:46:56,213

syndrome on YouTube, and he said,

I didn't read what it, like Nancy.

00:46:57,413 --> 00:46:58,193

Yeah, Nancy.

00:46:59,063 --> 00:47:02,393

And I didn't realize what it was like

to have a small dog until I got Nancy.

00:47:02,393 --> 00:47:03,628

And it's, I, yeah.

00:47:04,298 --> 00:47:05,378

Completely different outlook.

00:47:05,378 --> 00:47:08,348

So some small dogs do

need that extra help.

00:47:08,828 --> 00:47:11,048

Don't listen to the people in the park.

00:47:11,078 --> 00:47:13,328

Advocate for your dog

and you're not alone.

00:47:13,508 --> 00:47:14,648

And there is support out there.

00:47:17,015 --> 00:47:19,285

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: And I,

going back to the previous point as well,

00:47:19,285 --> 00:47:21,085

is that you need to be your dog superhero.

00:47:21,268 --> 00:47:21,928

Hayley: Oh, I love that.

00:47:21,933 --> 00:47:22,793

Yes, absolutely.

00:47:23,660 --> 00:47:23,950

Yeah.

00:47:24,700 --> 00:47:24,990

Yeah.

00:47:25,050 --> 00:47:25,270

But

00:47:25,548 --> 00:47:27,528

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: advocate

for your dog, be your dog's superhero.

00:47:27,528 --> 00:47:28,488

You need to listen to them.

00:47:28,488 --> 00:47:30,558

You are your dog's voice ultimately.

00:47:30,588 --> 00:47:32,688

So, yeah.

00:47:32,968 --> 00:47:37,678

What role then can us, as pet pros,

pet professionals play in making

00:47:37,678 --> 00:47:41,278

sure that these small dogs get the

same level of respect and support?

00:47:41,288 --> 00:47:41,798

Hayley?

00:47:42,915 --> 00:47:47,135

Hayley: I think that really it's about

educating people on body language.

00:47:47,990 --> 00:47:49,250

I mean, we're coming back to that again.

00:47:49,820 --> 00:47:55,520

We educating people on those little tiny

micro signals, maybe that little dogs

00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:58,820

offer, like a little paw lift or the

kiss to dismiss and things that you,

00:47:58,970 --> 00:48:01,220

or the side eye, the, the whale eye.

00:48:01,730 --> 00:48:05,665

I think it's educating people

and also understanding that these

00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:09,290

dogs are highly trainable and

if you give 'em a little chance,

00:48:09,350 --> 00:48:11,360

they'll maybe outshine or outshine.

00:48:11,540 --> 00:48:14,080

There might be, you know,

show you what they're made of.

00:48:14,530 --> 00:48:16,480

And they're really, really

great dogs to train.

00:48:18,248 --> 00:48:19,568

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, definitely.

00:48:20,048 --> 00:48:20,408

Brilliant.

00:48:20,438 --> 00:48:23,228

Okay, so we're just gonna spend

the last few minutes wrapping up.

00:48:23,228 --> 00:48:25,718

So with some final questions and thoughts.

00:48:25,748 --> 00:48:30,398

So, Hayley, if there's one message

you want people to take away about

00:48:30,398 --> 00:48:33,918

the Amazing Chihuahuas or our

small breed dogs, what would it be?

00:48:35,090 --> 00:48:36,200

Hayley: Probably gonna repeat myself.

00:48:37,713 --> 00:48:37,933

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:39,360

Hayley: Drows are real dogs.

00:48:39,390 --> 00:48:43,260

They're highly intelligent, they

have big emotions, but we need to

00:48:43,260 --> 00:48:48,270

stop listening to those big emotions

and listening to the whispers again

00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:52,800

I think it's important that we start to

look at banning the, the phrase, the all

00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:58,140

dog syndrome and understanding what it

really is and, and again, paying attention

00:48:58,140 --> 00:48:59,250

to what they're trying to tell us.

00:48:59,250 --> 00:49:00,140

And, yeah.

00:49:00,140 --> 00:49:00,920

What I was gonna say,

00:49:02,658 --> 00:49:04,458

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, love that mic drop

00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:04,910

Hayley: mic drop.

00:49:04,940 --> 00:49:05,150

Yeah.

00:49:05,448 --> 00:49:06,888

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

For anyone that may be struggling

00:49:06,888 --> 00:49:10,668

with their small dog's behavior

or feeling overwhelmed, what

00:49:10,668 --> 00:49:12,043

would you say to them right now?

00:49:13,190 --> 00:49:16,220

Hayley: First of all, when we say

don't listen to people, we we're

00:49:16,220 --> 00:49:18,980

talking about people that say,

oh, your dog needs a firm hand.

00:49:19,430 --> 00:49:22,100

There are a lot of people out there

that will, that will give you good

00:49:22,100 --> 00:49:26,520

advice, but you know, these dogs, if

they are reactive or whatever else.

00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:29,020

They don't need a firm hand.

00:49:29,500 --> 00:49:30,730

They need understanding.

00:49:30,730 --> 00:49:32,770

So, you know, they're not

trying to be dramatic.

00:49:32,770 --> 00:49:33,940

They're not trying to be the boss.

00:49:33,940 --> 00:49:35,410

They're not trying to take over the world.

00:49:35,830 --> 00:49:37,690

They are just being misunderstood.

00:49:38,150 --> 00:49:41,030

So look deeper in what that,

where that emotion's coming

00:49:41,030 --> 00:49:42,470

from or what that emotion is.

00:49:42,990 --> 00:49:47,070

Your dog's feelings are valid and

you go with your gut instinct.

00:49:47,070 --> 00:49:50,400

Your as a guardian, your gut

instinct are valid as well.

00:49:51,130 --> 00:49:52,880

And support is out there.

00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:57,350

So, like I said, I offer a free group on

Facebook called, gotta get the name right,

00:49:57,350 --> 00:49:59,450

small Dog Training, advice and Support.

00:49:59,900 --> 00:50:06,270

So is there, is that I I offer, you know

programs face-to-face and online as well.

00:50:06,270 --> 00:50:07,785

So that's Halo pups.co

00:50:07,785 --> 00:50:12,240

uk and then you've got the re

podcast as well, which is a.

00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:15,030

Loads of, we massive free resource.

00:50:15,030 --> 00:50:18,780

There's lots of episodes on there,

all the, all the way from choosing

00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:23,340

a breeder and a puppy, and then all

the way to aggression and nutrition

00:50:23,340 --> 00:50:24,510

and all that sort of stuff as well.

00:50:24,510 --> 00:50:27,030

So yeah, there's lots

out there to help you.

00:50:27,433 --> 00:50:27,763

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

00:50:27,763 --> 00:50:28,153

Brilliant.

00:50:28,183 --> 00:50:31,633

I'm going, I was gonna ask you my next

question was where can our listeners or

00:50:31,860 --> 00:50:33,450

Hayley: Oh, I've put

you to the post there.

00:50:33,455 --> 00:50:33,655

Sorry.

00:50:34,153 --> 00:50:34,543

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: the Chi?

00:50:34,603 --> 00:50:35,113

No, it's good.

00:50:35,533 --> 00:50:37,843

Where can they find out more

about the Chihuahua podcast

00:50:37,843 --> 00:50:38,683

and connect with your work?

00:50:38,683 --> 00:50:41,053

So the Chihuahua podcast,

I'd imagine is on

00:50:41,340 --> 00:50:41,760