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Content Creator Collaboration for Audience Growth
Episode 146 • 29th July 2022 • Women Conquer Business • Jen McFarland
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Jen:

The Women Conquer Business show is an educational how-to

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women in business podcast.

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That features stories, marketing news and real life experiences

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from fun and friendly hosts.

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Jen McFarland and Shelley Carney.

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Join us as we dive into the details.

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So you can slay marketing, overwhelm, streamline processes, and amplify your.

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You'll learn strategies and tactics, leadership skills, and practical advice

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from successful women entrepreneurs.

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To help you grow, nurture, and sustain your business.

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Whoa.

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Hello and welcome to Women Conquer Business.

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I'm Jen McFarland.

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Hi, I'm Shelley Carney.

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Whoa.

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Hey, Shelley's here.

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Shelley's in the house today.

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We're gonna talk about content creator, collaboration for audience growth.

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The fastest way to grow your audience is to.

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Be really scarcity mindset and never share with anyone.

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No, what actually that's wrong.

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the fastest way to grow your audience is to join forces through

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collaboration with other creators.

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It means sharing.

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And sometimes it means sharing with people who are in adjacent or maybe

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who even do the same thing as you.

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And there are many ways to do that.

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And there are a lot of imaginative people out there to

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collaborate with like us that's.

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But it's all about how do you get started?

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Who can you collaborate with?

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What's the best way to reach out and work with new people.

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It comes down to relationship building and networking with other

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people, coaches, creators, speakers.

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That's exactly what we're gonna talk about in this episode, we'll share how beginners

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get started with cross promotion and other simple one time collaboration efforts,

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and then take you all the way through to joint ventures and affiliate marketing.

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How you doing today?

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Shelley?

Shelley:

I'm super, I'm having a good week.

Shelley:

Toby and I yesterday, we drove to elephant Butte.

Shelley:

Toby and I have been, of course I talked about this last week.

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So you can continue in the saga with us.

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Toby and I have been reanalyzing.

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What do we wanna do with our news and views content?

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Are people happy with it?

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How can we grow that audience?

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And so we did a focus group Tuesday night and we had a couple of people

Shelley:

email us and send us voicemail messages to tell us what's going on.

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What do they wanna see more of?

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What do they like?

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What would they like us to add in to our show and what we heard.

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Was, and now keep in mind, this is the same people that have been with us

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since we were doing treasure hunting.

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They, what they

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liked, they want treasure

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hunting.

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They do a little bit, but what they liked the most was the outdoorsiness

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have Toby and I going outdoors.

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In New Mexico showing everybody what New Mexico looks like,

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what's going on in New Mexico.

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We decided to go ahead and start doing more of that because it's fun for us too,

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to get out and make, gives us a push to get out in nature and do our video skills.

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So yesterday we drove down to elephant Butte lake park, which is about

Shelley:

two and a half hours south of here.

Shelley:

Cool.

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Yeah.

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So you take I 25, about two and a half hours and you're there.

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And it's a beautiful park.

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It's very nice for boaters and water sports people.

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The unfortunate thing is the water has gone down to levels to where

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it was when the lake was first created when they put the dam up.

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And so it's very low and we we did some drone footage.

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We did the on the gimble footage and we.

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We did an interview with somebody who was working there and got his opinion.

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He's been there 20 years and he got to talk about what, how he

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uses the lake, how he works with people what's going on in the town.

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Because of the economy, because of all of the reduction in use of the lake.

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So it was really fascinating and

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we're like, That's amazing latest journal.

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You were journalists.

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Exactly.

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Going back to being journalists.

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That's very exciting.

Shelley:

Yeah.

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So we were excited about it.

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We shared that last night.

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We hadn't didn't have we got back at six o'clock and we had to do a seven o'clock

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show, so we didn't have time to edit cuz we don't have a team of editors.

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So we just showed

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clips.

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Don't have a team of editors yet.

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. Shelley: So we just showed clips

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And here's who we talked to.

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We showed the little interview we did with the man and it was,

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I think it was really good.

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Oh, that's awesome.

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And to see how it goes.

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Drone footage and gimble.

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Those are things that, so I have a gimble, but it is not as easy as it looks.

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That's true.

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I will just, that's true.

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Say that.

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And yeah, I would like to learn more about how to do that stuff too.

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That's fascinating to me, but I, and I love New Mexico.

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I am very concerned with the climate emergency that we're having.

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how, if it's a viable place to live anymore.

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I've been fascinated with that, cuz I really loved Taos and yeah.

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Other parts, truth or consequences, New Mexico.

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I love that.

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That's not far from elephant Butte.

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Oh really?

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Oh wow.

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That's so cool.

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Yeah.

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So I'm like really in, into all of that.

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And I lived in Arizona for five years.

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I always preferred the more rural areas.

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I preferred New Mexico.

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I preferred going up to Flagstaff in different parts.

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It's really.

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That's cool.

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I think that's the right track.

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I love that.

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You ask people.

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Yeah, we should ask.

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Hey everybody, what would you like speaking on about the

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Women Conquer Business show?

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That's right.

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We wanna know, we should ask people.

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We wanna know we would cause we have all this

Shelley:

knowledge, but we don't know which pieces of it interest you guys.

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Exactly.

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That's right.

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So in terms of me, so there's all kinds of stuff, I would say that even if you're,

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you are in marketing, launching something new and doing something new is stressful.

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Yeah.

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And I have been read revving.

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Like I was, I've been sharing with like friends.

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I've been, I feel like I've been at like full throttle for a long time to

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the point where it got stuck there, and I've had like migraines and all kinds of

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stuff because of just launching things and sending out emails and having emails

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that aren't so much Hey, here's how you.

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Something or here's how to be helpful when you teach a lot.

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Like I have been, and I get a lot of clients from speaking

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engagements where I'm teaching.

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I don't do a lot of like sales emails.

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It can be really stressful.

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And I think I've been trying to decide whether or not to share that on here,

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but I think it's really important for people to realize it's hard for everybody.

Shelley:

But the more you do it, the more you incorporate it

Shelley:

into your message, the easier

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it gets, the easier it gets.

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And I would say that even, today I know that I'm gonna do some more and it, and

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I feel okay with it, but it has taken I guess like ripping off the bandaid again

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on that, because I haven't had to do it.

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Women Conquer Business is at a point now where it.

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It does its thing and I get clients and that works, and I'm

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busy and everything, but to grow a membership, it's a different product.

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, it's a different animal.

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And so I realized that my little sales muscle was a had weakened

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since the pandemic, because my business shifted so much.

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So I've had all of that going on and then.

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But, one of the big courses that we released and it was actually before we

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became a membership site, we shifted gears because we realized at epiphany

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courses, we didn't wanna be doing launch after launch and constantly

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be selling individual courses.

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I released something called find the right marketing tools for your small business.

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And it's like a three steps formula that really goes into like how to investigate.

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Talk to software providers and come together, come up with what are

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basically, what is it that you need?

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And then if you still need to hire somebody to come and help you pick the

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right thing it will be there for you.

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So I re we released that originally as a standalone course and in the

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process of doing that, I also made it into an audio book and it has

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taken . I think I did that back in.

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February and March.

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and it has finally released on audible.

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It apparently released two days ago, and I didn't know about

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it, talk about being a dork.

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I go on audible and I search for my own name and then today I

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found it and I was like, holy cow.

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Awesome.

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I'm on audible.

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So if you are interested in that, it's one credit on audible, it's called

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find the right marketing tools for your small business and it includes.

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A few links to the resources that will help you.

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It's not as robust as if you were to join our membership, but it

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is a good way to learn more about the philosophy, how we teach at

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epiphany courses, how all of that.

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How all of that works.

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So it's very exciting.

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And yeah, just do a search for Jen McFarland on audible.

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Guess what?

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You'll also find the Women Conquer Business show there, cuz it's

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already, it's also on there.

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Yeah.

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So that's exciting.

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And other than that, we have a massive heat wave.

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So if you are watching the news and hearing about the Pacific Northwest

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heat wave, we are in that I am.

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I am.

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I am fine with heat.

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I lived in Arizona and I'm not gonna complain like my complaining is all

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about the raining so I'm not gonna complain about it being too sunny.

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I am grateful that we had all of the rain because it makes it easier to navigate.

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We have a lot of trees.

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We do end up with a lot of forest fires.

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Hopefully it rained enough.

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That things will be okay.

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But aside from that I just want safety for people who don't have air

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conditioning, cuz we I don't know how we lucked into it, but we got a house that

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has AC, which is a rare thing up here.

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Mm.

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So that's been pretty nice.

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And also in my life, my two dogs have been obnoxious all morning long, so I

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booted them out well before the podcast.

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Cause I didn't wanna deal with that noise.

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So that's me.

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Hi, I'm just telling you all of the things that's good.

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Oh what do you have on the breaking news side?

Shelley:

Breaking news.

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Since Jen brought up last week about people gen Z people looking at TikTok

Shelley:

and Instagram for, in, for information for where to eat and That sort of thing.

Shelley:

I found this a vari cast survey found 34% of gen Z turned a TikTok

Shelley:

for financial advice while 33% get money tips from YouTube.

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So what does that tell us?

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If you are a money person of financial guide of some sort.

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In any capacity whatsoever, make sure you're sharing that information on TikTok

Shelley:

and YouTube, because you're going to be able to expand your brand in that way.

Jen:

Yeah.

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I'm, I've really beginning to turn the tide on my views on TikTok.

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I'll be really interested to see what the updated statistics are on TikTok.

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When they're released.

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I always go by the pew research center.

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They go through, they.

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It's a longitudinal study at this point, since the beginning of social

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media last year, it really looked like it was all younger, mostly

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overseas people And now this year it's if you have a local business,

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people are searching local for TikTok.

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I read this morning that TikTok is going after Spotify and Amazon and

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releasing, they filed a trademark, I believe for TikTok music.

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It's growing, people are using it for search.

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People are also using Reddit for search, which I find absolutely fascinating.

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And I was like, really?

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And then last week I was like, oh, this is why.

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So we have a lot of people who live on the streets here in Portland.

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We have a lot of homelessness house houseless individuals who live on

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the streets and there was a large encampment by a local business.

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And they had a huge fire.

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This is like a big business Hopworks brewery.

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It's on a major street owned run by the state called Powell,

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not too far from my house.

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And.

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There was a huge fire, not covered by the news, but I could find the fire.

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I found it first on Twitter.

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And then I was like, where is this coming from?

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And it came from Reddit.

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And then it was never covered by the news.

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So in terms of where you find information, it is.

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Starting to change.

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And so when you, if you can get beyond the whole why would somebody

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look for a local business on TikTok?

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Or why would somebody get their news somewhere else?

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If you can get beyond that mental shift, you will find that there's a

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lot going on out there in other places like Reddit never used to be a place

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where you could reliably go for.

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You

Shelley:

know other than just mean people being mean to each other people . Yeah.

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We were before the show, we were going through my checklist

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for how I promoted the podcast.

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And then there was an item on there that said promoted on

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Reddit, and I was looking at that.

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And thinking, gosh, why did I stop doing that?

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And it was because it was it just felt like a dumpster fire over there.

Jen:

Yeah.

Shelley:

When Toby and I started a gypsies kiss in 2017, we tried that.

Shelley:

We went to Reddit, we went on the forest fin treasure Reddits.

Shelley:

Yeah.

Shelley:

And they were like, get outta here.

Shelley:

You don't know anything renting.

Shelley:

Everyone's like, okay.

Shelley:

We're done here.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

So there's a shift happening, but you have to find those

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little corners of the internet.

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So understand that things are happening with TikTok things are happening.

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With Reddit, all these places, the other, let's see, what's the

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other breaking news that I read.

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Oh yeah.

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Social shopping.

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Before we get to the, of course, Google messing around with cookies.

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Some more.

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When we first relaunched this podcast, we talked about Social shopping.

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So this is a little bit different than social selling is when

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you share a lot on social.

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And instead of you don't just slide right into the DMS , but there is a

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methodology for how you use social media to eventually sell your product.

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Unfortunately, a lot of people do that with just the here's my

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stuff, which is jamming a business card down somebody's throat.

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If you were in person, there's actually a methodology for how you.

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Really teach people about your product and then ultimately do

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some social service selling.

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There is, we need,

Shelley:

there's a manual

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for this.

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We need this manual.

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, that's a separate podcast episode.

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But when we started the show, if you remember, I was talking about how

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Pinterest and TikTok and all these platforms were going to what I called a

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QVC social shopping thing, where you could like, sell products and things like that.

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That never took off.

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And I don't know if it's because people like me are like, it's like QVC, it's

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taking off in other parts of the world, but if your customers are primarily in,

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America, it's just not really taken off.

Jen:

A lot of the platforms are pulling back from that, which is interesting.

Jen:

So that's one of the reasons why you always wanna have

Jen:

your own platform versus I'm

Shelley:

a theory on that.

Shelley:

What's that?

Shelley:

I think that.

Shelley:

That people are like, if I wanted to go shopping, I would go to Amazon

Shelley:

YouTube or whoever, wherever they're at exactly Twitter or whatever.

Shelley:

If I wanted this shop, I would go to Amazon and I would go buy something.

Shelley:

I don't want to be sold something I want to buy it.

Jen:

And that's what I mean about social.

Jen:

Totally selling struggle with some of these alliterations, but

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social selling and social shopping.

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When I teach people about marketing, especially people who are just getting

Jen:

started, it is fundamentally that social media, isn't a transactional channel.

Jen:

And I think that's exactly what you said.

Jen:

People don't go there to just buy stuff.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

So what we're seeing is that at least in states, that's playing.

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And it's not really surprising for people like me.

Jen:

I was intrigued by it and I said, oh this is interesting.

Jen:

So it is definitely something to watch.

Jen:

We'll see if it comes back.

Jen:

I don't know.

Jen:

But right now that's on the back burner, the idea that you can go

Jen:

on these platforms, they have, ways for creators to go on and share.

Jen:

I think at the beginning it was you can share your recipes on Pinterest and sell

Jen:

them by showing people the wonderful dishes you can make or things like that.

Jen:

That's not working out for people.

Jen:

If that's part of your strategy, just to understand it, maybe going away from

Jen:

certain platforms, And I think it's for the exact reason that you said, yeah,

Jen:

if you have something you can sell on Amazon people go to Amazon to buy it.

Jen:

Yeah.

Shelley:

Things like that.

Shelley:

You do want people to be aware of you.

Shelley:

So it's good to have a presence there just for people to be able to

Shelley:

find you that's the most important

Jen:

part.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

Just understand people still it's just the shopping aspect.

Jen:

It's still just not there.

Jen:

For social.

Jen:

It is in other.

Jen:

So if you're selling, I think in Europe and some other parts of the world, then

Jen:

it's something to look at, but it's being pulled back in the us markets.

Jen:

So the big Shelley's like this is all kinds of stuff

Jen:

that was not in the show flow.

Jen:

So now to get to the point,

Shelley:

now, Jen is reading my mind.

Jen:

When I saw TikTok, I was like, yeah, I might as well.

Jen:

I, I.

Jen:

Emailed myself, all kinds of marketing stories this morning.

Jen:

And so these are all the stories that I emailed myself.

Jen:

But so the big story that I wanted to share on here this week is that Google,

Jen:

of course, this is not surprising.

Jen:

They are pushing back the deadline for killing off cookies until at least 2024.

Jen:

So what cookies are, they are little pieces of code that are

Jen:

little packets that are downloaded when you go to a certain website,

Jen:

unless you have ad blockers.

Jen:

And then if you later see an ad, so say you go to buy

Jen:

slippers, you don't buy slippers.

Jen:

Or sometimes if you do, then you go to another website and pictures

Jen:

of those same slippers everywhere.

Jen:

So that's like retargeting, right?

Jen:

. And that happens because there was a little piece of code from

Jen:

that slipper website that was downloaded to your computer.

Jen:

And then if they are running.

Jen:

They're showing you those ads in other places that run ads.

Jen:

So like news sites sometimes they show up on blogs.

Jen:

Sometimes they show up on Facebook, videos, YouTube videos, if you

Jen:

see things again and again, you're like, how did they know?

Jen:

It's because of cookies.

Jen:

So basically in a nutshell, this is all Jen's thinking.

Jen:

And I think a lot of marketers thinking is that.

Jen:

Google never came up with anything to replace cookies with that

Jen:

people are willing to live with.

Jen:

Every time they introduce something like affinity groups and different

Jen:

things, marketers are like, you're never gonna be able to do it.

Jen:

Privacy organizations are like this isn't any better than cookies.

Jen:

And Apple's doing all kinds of things around privacy that are

Jen:

basically killing off Facebook ads.

Jen:

So it's making it very difficult.

Jen:

There's just so many things going on.

Jen:

The environment is really up in the air.

Jen:

So it's really not a surprise, but if you are.

Jen:

Using things like Facebook pixels and Pinterest pixels and LinkedIn

Jen:

pixels, like you can still use all of that on your website.

Jen:

It can still do the tracking.

Jen:

All of that is still gonna work until at least 2024 until Google figures out.

Jen:

What to do, just understand that more and more people are using things like the

Jen:

brave browser they're using ad blockers.

Jen:

so many things that if you have all of those tracking things on there,

Jen:

It's becoming less and less effective.

Jen:

So there's a lot swirling around ads and it is making it very

Jen:

difficult for Google to figure.

Jen:

How they can become, can remain a multibillion dollar ad tech company.

Jen:

And it's okay.

Jen:

Kabillion's not a thing, but billions and billions every quarter

Jen:

is what they make from ad tech, how they can remain the top of that.

Jen:

And at the same time understand that technology is changing

Jen:

and people are really pushing back on being tracked so much.

Jen:

Yes.

Jen:

So we'll see what happens.

Shelley:

Yes.

Jen:

I know that on my website, I just, I on Women Conquer Business, I

Jen:

just was like I'm done with all that.

Jen:

So I don't have Google analytics.

Jen:

I don't have any pixels on my website.

Jen:

I did everything I could to create a very privacy focused

Jen:

website at Women Conquer Business.

Jen:

And it's been great.

Jen:

So it means then that everybody can see all the content.

Jen:

If you have like ad blockers and stuff, you can go there and nothing is prevented.

Jen:

On other websites you might not be able to see everything or you

Jen:

go to news sites, they want you to have everything turned on.

Jen:

And so they can, they make money from ads and yeah.

Jen:

So it's a much different thing.

Shelley:

Yeah.

Shelley:

I'd add.

Shelley:

You and I both do curate on missing letter.

Shelley:

And if some, and if I get suggested something, I go look at it first and if,

Shelley:

oh yeah, it's a blog post with a whole

Jen:

bunch of ads all over it.

Jen:

Huge turnoff.

Jen:

I'm not sharing that.

Jen:

I don't do that.

Jen:

I'm not

Shelley:

sharing that.

Shelley:

And I'm, I don't share things in my newsletters that I send out if

Shelley:

it's going to go to somewhere where there's a bunch of ads, so yeah.

Shelley:

Your own you're if you're in business for.

Shelley:

You don't wanna do that?

Shelley:

Don't put ads on your stuff.

Jen:

It's if you can avoid it.

Jen:

I know that bloggers it, it's just not as I, I wrote about that in my newsletter.

Jen:

If you wanna build an affiliate marketing business based on all of those ads, all

Jen:

of those ads and all of those, click this link and I'm gonna make a little money.

Jen:

That's, Google's starting to penalize.

Jen:

You , even though they make a lot of money for it.

Jen:

It may, it might be a ranking factor issue, but it's also the, it's a real,

Jen:

it's becoming a turnoff for people.

Jen:

And then as a business owner of an affiliate business, like there are

Jen:

all these people who create like niche websites, it's I'm gonna talk

Jen:

about marshmallows and that's the only thing I'm gonna talk about.

Jen:

And then they send out affiliate links to all the different elements.

Jen:

I don't know why I picked marshmallows.

Jen:

Pretty bad example, actually, but you get my point.

Jen:

, and and so that just isn't working anymore.

Jen:

That's just not a viable option anymore to do that because if you,

Jen:

so for example, ConvertKit, a lot of people are big, ConvertKit affiliates,

Jen:

and they trashed their affiliate marketing to like totally make.

Jen:

Like a non-factor then all of the affiliate marketers freaked

Jen:

out and they've changed it back or partially changed it back.

Jen:

But that's the other thing that can happen at any time.

Jen:

So it's a really, it is a turnoff.

Jen:

I think people hate all that stuff.

Shelley:

Or they ignore it.

Shelley:

I there's times when I go to a blog and I'm just skipping

Shelley:

down, I'm skipping all the ads.

Shelley:

I'm I see it.

Shelley:

but I'm like, yeah, I see you because I've already gone to your website

Shelley:

and I got the pic, the pixel, and now you're following me with my cookies

Shelley:

and whatnot, but, and that's okay.

Shelley:

You can be there, but I'm not gonna look at it.

Shelley:

I'm not paying any attention to it.

Shelley:

I, we've weeded out.

Shelley:

We're just like, I don't see you.

Jen:

yeah I, yeah.

Jen:

I don't know.

Jen:

I don't know what the future is for ad tech.

Jen:

But they will find a way to push ads on us.

Jen:

I'm sure.

Jen:

It's like we were talking before the show about how Instagram is gonna start.

Jen:

23% of all Instagram content is gonna be suggested.

Jen:

I think that's where it's probably gonna go.

Jen:

You're gonna be served up ads all the time.

Jen:

They're just not gonna be called ads, stop using it at that.

Jen:

It's just gonna be more.

Jen:

Oh, and that's by 20, 24.

Jen:

Is that right?

Jen:

That it was, or 20, 23 that like a quarter of all Instagram

Jen:

posts are gonna be suggested.

Jen:

And so what that means then is everybody's gonna be, a Kardashian and selling their

Jen:

wares on Instagram that actually the

Shelley:

Kardashians came out against

Jen:

it.

Jen:

Oh, I'm sure they did.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

Even though they're like the biggest.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

Influencers out there cause they're gonna get hurt by it.

Jen:

I'm sure they're gonna get hurt by it.

Jen:

So anyway, that's all changing.

Jen:

It's all evolving.

Jen:

I wish I, so

Shelley:

we're gonna give you some alternatives alternative methods

Shelley:

other than, oh, are we shifting now?

Shelley:

Yeah.

Shelley:

Other than just putting ads all over your blog, we're gonna give you some

Shelley:

alternatives to be seen and to start your way towards making money for your

Jen:

business.

Jen:

We're shifting into.

Jen:

Presentations

Shelley:

entry presentation mode.

Jen:

So how do collaborations help you expand your audience?

Shelley:

She when Jen and I collaborate on this podcast, for

Shelley:

instance, her audience sees me, they might come and look at my things.

Shelley:

My audience comes and sees her and they might go get on her newsletter email

Shelley:

list and check her out on LinkedIn.

Shelley:

So that is how we grow our audience.

Shelley:

One new audience at a time.

Shelley:

And you can do it that way, or you can do bigger things, but so we're starting

Shelley:

off with beginners at a beginner level and just talking about the easy

Shelley:

things to do, and then working our way up towards more complicated things.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

And it's interesting.

Jen:

I don't know if I've ever told you this Shelley, but when we first joined

Jen:

forces, I had shared with a colleague that you and I were doing this and

Jen:

they were, the first thing was like what are you getting out of it?

Jen:

And I'm.

Jen:

What do you mean?

Jen:

And almost I don't know if it was that like, like one of us was supposed

Jen:

to pay the other or something and I'm like, I'm getting out of it.

Jen:

That my show comes back.

Jen:

And I get to talk to somebody.

Jen:

Interesting.

Jen:

A, and we learn from each other, like it can be, and it gives

Shelley:

you accountability to show up every week.

Jen:

Exactly.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

And so the first thing is so just, so Shelley and I,

Jen:

we have separate businesses.

Jen:

and we signed an agreement before we started doing this.

Jen:

So when we talk about collaborations and stuff, we're still saying, you need

Jen:

to be careful, like we're not saying go into things, Willy nilly, but they

Jen:

can also be a heck of a lot of fun.

Jen:

Yeah, we have a lot of fun.

Jen:

We're enjoying getting to know each other.

Jen:

This collaboration is working for us because we're teaching

Jen:

each other things all the time.

Jen:

So bear in mind, we are both believers in collaborations.

Jen:

And it can really benefit you and your audience.

Jen:

Yeah, that's the first thing like each other's audience, they get notified.

Shelley:

That's right.

Shelley:

Yeah.

Shelley:

Collaboration is basically using other people's audiences.

Shelley:

And in return you are bringing along your audience to increase theirs.

Shelley:

So it's a win-win situation.

Jen:

Exactly.

Jen:

And there are so many ways you can do it.

Jen:

So like on this one, we have a, an informal partnership.

Jen:

We signed something, but it's also that we can leave at any time.

Jen:

So that's why it's pretty informal.

Jen:

And we gave each other vague roles for what we're supposed to do.

Jen:

And we check in on that.

Jen:

That's why I was talking earlier about how we went through my

Jen:

checklist, cuz I was like, oh.

Jen:

I hadn't been doing some of this stuff.

Jen:

So we do check-ins and things like that.

Jen:

So collaborations work really well.

Jen:

We have met interesting people talk to new people through this.

Jen:

That's one way of doing it.

Jen:

There are other methods of collaboration, for example, cross promotion.

Jen:

So when.

Jen:

Before Shelley was on the show.

Jen:

I had a cross promotion with another podcaster.

Jen:

We each made a little ad about our show and we ran ads on each other's

Jen:

shows to try and get more listeners.

Jen:

It was one way for us to boost each other.

Jen:

And that's one example of another type of cross promotion.

Jen:

Excuse me, cross promotion.

Jen:

Yeah.

Shelley:

Yeah.

Shelley:

And you can do it with.

Shelley:

Other for instance, we do production for our clients and we have

Shelley:

clients who would work with us.

Shelley:

They would tell their friends and colleagues about the

Shelley:

show that they were doing.

Shelley:

Look, I'm doing this live stream every week.

Shelley:

I hope you'll check it out and they'll go, oh, that's really great.

Shelley:

How did you make that happen?

Shelley:

And then we get that referral.

Shelley:

We get.

Shelley:

Pro, cross promotion type of a referral from our client.

Shelley:

He says I'm using AGK media studio and they handle everything and they're great.

Shelley:

So go visit them and check them out and, work with them.

Shelley:

So referrals is a, is one way of, getting started with that.

Jen:

Exactly and that's, I guess another form of collaboration.

Jen:

I go out, I speak to a lot of groups and I do my best to do a great job.

Jen:

And then I can't tell you how many clients I've had that come

Jen:

to me as a result of speaking.

Jen:

And it's not the people necessarily, I one of my best clients came not from them.

Jen:

Seeing me directly, somebody else saw me and said, oh, you should talk to Jen.

Jen:

I saw her speak at SBDC.

Jen:

So the small business development center, and then.

Jen:

It was like, I don't know, a year later it

Shelley:

appeared in front of somebody else's audience.

Shelley:

And from that you got a referral.

Shelley:

Exactly.

Shelley:

So you open up those

Jen:

opportunities when you do that.

Jen:

Absolutely.

Jen:

And like a lot of people are like that's a no go because I

Jen:

don't get to sell from the stage.

Jen:

Like it's teaching is what I do.

Jen:

And I've never turned that down because I'm really passionate about helping other

Jen:

people a and B I don't have to sell from.

Jen:

Stage, so to speak, to sell, right?

Jen:

Like part of what makes it being sales is that you say things throughout,

Jen:

like when I've helped people, this is a result that I've gotten as a result of

Jen:

this specific tactic, or you talk about things and you share your expertise

Jen:

and by providing value to others, this is my primary marketing tool.

Jen:

I provide value to others.

Jen:

People come to.

Jen:

The end, like it's really that simple and I've become this person over time.

Jen:

This didn't happen immediately, that people trust as someone that they can

Jen:

come to when they have marketing questions and then guess what people want more.

Jen:

So they become clients.

Jen:

And so that's one way of doing it too.

Jen:

Don't turn down the speaking engagements, just because you can't sell from

Jen:

the stage, you are your product.

Jen:

And I think a lot of people forget.

Jen:

You're your product.

Shelley:

As long as you're going to be in that area anyway, I wouldn't

Shelley:

spend a whole lot of money to get to a conference that you didn't even

Shelley:

care about just to speak for free

Jen:

No, but you don't have to, you get what I mean?

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

This opportunity came to me, I've built a relationship with them.

Jen:

I have some collaborations and some agreements that have been in place for

Jen:

years because I just keep showing up.

Jen:

I just keep doing my thing.

Jen:

I just keep showing up and.

Jen:

I get a lot of interest in a lot of clients from that.

Jen:

And if you

Shelley:

can get on other people's masterminds or membership groups as

Shelley:

a speaker, anything that's virtual, that's ideal, I've done that then you

Shelley:

don't have to get paid because you're not having to travel or spend any

Jen:

money on it.

Jen:

Exactly.

Jen:

So I.

Jen:

I have spoken on summits.

Jen:

Those are great.

Jen:

A lot of especially summits where they keep the content up for a long time.

Jen:

I've also sponsored summits.

Jen:

Sometimes summits have really low.

Jen:

Levels of sponsorship and it's accessible, to just get your

Jen:

brand out there as something nice.

Jen:

We, I will travel to speak.

Jen:

So for example, oh, and I can announce this.

Jen:

Now I'm speaking at sheep podcast live in 2022, and I'm very excited

Jen:

to travel to Washington DC in October to go speak at that event.

Jen:

And then part of how that works is they promote me.

Jen:

And I promote their conference and that's how it works.

Jen:

And then in that case, I do get to share and collect email

Jen:

addresses from the stage.

Jen:

So that's an example of here's a big conference, I'm a podcaster.

Jen:

I do marketing, let's talk.

Jen:

And I get to, to present at that group.

Jen:

I get to meet people.

Jen:

And then I also get to say, Hey, if you want more information, And

Jen:

I haven't decided what the opt-in is going to be but there will be

Jen:

something that's alright, good time.

Jen:

But there's they sent over already, like the cross promotional thing.

Jen:

And what I will say is, and I'll say that one of the reasons I stopped

Jen:

having guests on the show is the guests.

Jen:

Weren't doing their part of the cross promotion.

Jen:

, it's not a one way.

Jen:

You don't get to be on the summit and then not tell anyone about the summit.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

You don't get to be a guest on a podcast and never tell anybody

Jen:

that you were a guest on a podcast.

Jen:

This is a two way venture.

Jen:

And you have to look at it as a collaboration and be

Jen:

really excited about it.

Jen:

And you have to so do things that you're gonna be all in.

Shelley:

And next week I'm gonna be teaching on how to

Shelley:

be a great podcast guest.

Shelley:

And that includes how to do your outreach, how to meet up with people who would be

Shelley:

a good fit for you, but it also teaches you some of the things that are in

Shelley:

your responsibility to handle such as sharing, cross promoting following the

Shelley:

show on following the person on LinkedIn.

Shelley:

Following their, that relationship.

Shelley:

Yeah.

Shelley:

You're responsible for building some kind of relationship with that person.

Shelley:

Absolutely.

Shelley:

And the easier, the easier you as a host, make that for your guests, then the

Shelley:

more you're going to grow your network.

Shelley:

So it's it, that's also a two, two way

Jen:

street.

Jen:

Absolutely.

Jen:

It's it is a two-way street.

Jen:

It's being interested, and I think that's part of the collaborative thing.

Jen:

I think a lot of people.

Jen:

I won't say a lot of people.

Jen:

I think that's an overgeneralization.

Jen:

I think there are many people who look at it as what's in it for me.

Jen:

Sure.

Jen:

And what we're really talking about is what's in it for us.

Jen:

What's in it for us.

Jen:

How can we make this work?

Jen:

How can we make it better?

Jen:

I can tell you that.

Jen:

One of the reasons I'm back at she podcasts is I did my.

Jen:

I did my part.

Jen:

I like promoted the heck out of it.

Jen:

I participated fully in the conference.

Jen:

I asked questions.

Jen:

You're more likely to get invited back.

Jen:

Y it's just the way that it works, when you do your part, so it's the same thing.

Jen:

When you do podcast interviews, we're not gonna y said, I

Jen:

can't wait to listen to it.

Jen:

By the way I won't be on the show next week, maybe . So I can't wait to listen to

Shelley:

it because she's doing this teaching thing that she's

Jen:

talking

Jen:

I'm talking about a teaching thing that I'm talking about, and I

Jen:

don't have any control over what days of the week that happens.

Jen:

That's outside of my span of control.

Jen:

But if you are in the small business development centers

Jen:

eCommerce class, , I willbe your speaker next weekk at this time.

Jen:

And we'll be talking about how to develop eCommerce.

Jen:

Ah, so that'll be a future topic on this show on this might be.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

And so I'm very excited about that.

Jen:

So we won't talk too much about podcast interviews the next

Jen:

topic, but it is important.

Jen:

I will say it is important to do your part in the podcasting thing.

Jen:

The one side is that yes, the podcaster needs to send.

Jen:

Graphics and, suggested tweets and that kind of stuff.

Jen:

It really helps but then you have to do your part too.

Jen:

It's not my job as a podcaster to just promote the heck out of

Jen:

you and put you on my website and put you out on all the networks.

Jen:

If you're not gonna also.

Jen:

Promote me and talk about this great interview that you had.

Jen:

So that's right.

Jen:

That's gonna be that's me as podcasters.

Shelley:

Look at our analytics.

Shelley:

And if we see look at the big jump of downloads I had when this

Shelley:

person was on, she promoted herself.

Shelley:

She promoted that podcast and I want to have her back.

Jen:

People often say I'm one of their more popular episodes.

Jen:

And it's because I always am like, Ooh, I was on the show promoted.

Jen:

Like it's so exciting, and you do it more than once.

Jen:

I do it more than once.

Jen:

Look for three or

Shelley:

four weeks after it happens.

Shelley:

You're still talking about it and that's important.

Shelley:

Heck,

Jen:

if it's evergreen, I do it forever.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

So I, so we'll talk we that's a Royal, we isn't it.

Jen:

Shelley will talk about that next week.

Jen:

That's right in greater depth.

Jen:

I would love for you to talk about this next point because I have

Jen:

never no, I've never done it.

Shelley:

Yeah, book compilation.

Shelley:

This is not difficult.

Shelley:

It is an exercise in organization though.

Shelley:

So as long as you're a person who knows how to be organized and follow

Shelley:

through, this is not difficult.

Shelley:

So what we did was we were going to a conference Toby and I went to women.

Shelley:

She Podcasts last year.

Shelley:

And we interviewed 18 different women who were there attending, and Jen was one

Shelley:

of them and see what it can turn into.

Shelley:

It's amazing.

Shelley:

But we did interviews with all of these women and then we.

Shelley:

Transcribed, it turned it into a book and put it out there.

Shelley:

This is a comp compilation book.

Shelley:

So then we shared it with all the people who were in the book so that they could

Shelley:

share the book with their friends and family and say, look, I'm in this book.

Shelley:

And then you know, it grows as.

Shelley:

Is a compilation, a collaboration and a collaborative effort.

Shelley:

And then you can continue to do it if I was gonna go again this year, which I'm

Shelley:

not because I have too much other family issues going on in my life right now.

Shelley:

If I was going again this year, we could do the same thing and we could

Shelley:

bring last year's book and say, don't you wanna be in this year's book?

Shelley:

And it.

Shelley:

Perpetuates

Jen:

itself.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

It's a lot of it's so far away.

Jen:

We're going to DC because John's family lives there, so we're turning

Jen:

it into a family vacation and stuff.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

And we

Shelley:

could have done that too, because Toby's got his daughter in

Shelley:

the area, but yeah, it was just too many things it's too much on this

Shelley:

year with medical issues and stuff.

Jen:

But I remember, I when the book came out and everything, like

Jen:

I was like super stoked and I shared it and, and still available in

Shelley:

Amazon, if you're interested, it's called women

Shelley:

in podcasting, the messages and methods, interviews, go look it up.

Shelley:

And in the book, we not only do the interview, share the interviews.

Shelley:

We also talk about how we created the book.

Shelley:

We give you the whole process in that book.

Shelley:

So yeah.

Jen:

And I can tell you, you do have to do this with intentionality because at

Jen:

one point I wanted to go back to all of the podcast episodes that I had done and

Jen:

put together a compilation of a lot of the different things that I had talked about.

Jen:

I had some themes this was before Shelley, what do you call that?

Jen:

I would call it BS, but that sounds bad

Shelley:

but, before your life changed for the better before

Jen:

my life changed, transformed.

Jen:

But.

Jen:

I went, tried to go back and put those things together because

Jen:

I ran all these series there's series on project management.

Jen:

There's some series on leadership it's really hard to do if you

Jen:

don't do that with intentionality.

Jen:

That's right.

Jen:

You gotta

Shelley:

come up with a theme and you wanna ask very similar

Shelley:

questions so that you can expand on those ideas within your book.

Shelley:

Now we were gonna do it again on digital marketing.

Shelley:

But then we ran into everybody had the same answers for everything,

Shelley:

so there wasn't enough variety.

Shelley:

So we just yeah, we're not gonna do that anymore.

Jen:

I wondered what happened to that.

Jen:

I know.

Shelley:

Everybody kinda had the same answers and we're like,

Jen:

That's not enough.

Jen:

Information's not enough.

Jen:

And the episodes that I was going to make into a compilation

Jen:

were actually solo shows.

Jen:

And I thought I know what I said, I can do that.

Jen:

But it's getting back to then.

Jen:

Having the structure of a presentation.

Jen:

Exactly.

Jen:

And

Shelley:

that's what we did with livecast life.

Shelley:

Oh, we did.

Shelley:

We did the shows.

Shelley:

Then we transcribed the shows.

Shelley:

Then I edited them into book chapters and we put out livecast life.

Shelley:

So that's another way to go about it.

Shelley:

But if you are doing this as a collaboration so that other people

Shelley:

will promote your work you'll bring those people on for those interviews

Shelley:

and put them in your book as well.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

Book compilation next.

Jen:

We have summits conferences and speaking.

Jen:

So I've done all.

Jen:

To different levels of success.

Jen:

So I was in missing letter when they first launched, they had a summit, I was in

Jen:

the missing letter summit the first year.

Jen:

Nice.

Jen:

It was neat.

Jen:

It was good.

Jen:

And I had technical travel cuz it was all virtual.

Jen:

And so it was almost like a missed opportunity because I had, it was

Jen:

really early on in my business.

Jen:

And then I.

Jen:

There was an issue with a technical issue with zoom.

Jen:

And I think I was still using PowerPoint cuz I was still crawling

Jen:

out of my corporate shell so I was still really using that and there

Jen:

was, yeah, so it didn't really work.

Jen:

And that's the thing about summits and things that are virtual is,

Jen:

Things can happen and that can make it a lot more difficult.

Jen:

However, summits are also great because you get visibility.

Jen:

If it's done well, like the missing letter summit was done well, it wasn't their

Jen:

fault that there were technical issues.

Jen:

I was up there on their website for a long time for this site.

Jen:

I was, one of the, one of the people who was promoted, I promoted it.

Jen:

I had a lot of people on there.

Jen:

They were all my buds.

Jen:

Bud skis.

Jen:

So like they were getting into the missing letter environment.

Jen:

It's a tool that I still use.

Jen:

And so you know, it all worked out.

Jen:

But not all summits are like that.

Jen:

So you wanna make sure that you get hooked into summits where you're

Jen:

on the same page as everybody.

Jen:

The purpose of it is very aligned with your purpose, cuz remember you're gonna be

Jen:

in a summit and it's like all these names.

Jen:

So you wanna make sure that.

Jen:

It's not, you're not just doing it to do it.

Jen:

Like you need to make sure that you're looking at it from the

Jen:

perspective of a business decision.

Jen:

And if it is aligned with your higher purpose, and if you wanna

Jen:

have your name alongside some of the folks that are also on the summit

Shelley:

yeah.

Shelley:

And that the topic fits what you.

Shelley:

Talk about what is your business is, does it fit into that topic?

Shelley:

And in what way, and often summits can also be like a giveaway

Shelley:

where they ask you to give.

Shelley:

Some of your, maybe give away a free course or a free book or a time 1 0 1

Shelley:

coaching time or something like that.

Shelley:

They might add that in as an incentive for people to up a level to the V I P level.

Shelley:

So people could come in and watch it for free.

Shelley:

Or if they wanna up level to the V I P then they might get these

Shelley:

extra things from the speakers.

Shelley:

So you have to have something ready to go for that.

Shelley:

If you wanna start applying for those types of things,

Jen:

Absolutely.

Jen:

And so the only exception I have to it being totally about your topic

Jen:

is if you like, I have a client right now who teaches meditation.

Jen:

I have been on more than one summit where somebody comes in and leads everybody

Jen:

in a meditation to get their reset.

Jen:

Now the whole conference isn't about meditation.

Jen:

can be about marketing.

Jen:

It can be about business.

Jen:

I love these types of situations where somebody has a specific skill and

Jen:

they're like leading everybody in like a mindset exercise or in a meditation

Jen:

or in something to get everybody like in the flow of what's gonna happen.

Jen:

So the whole summit.

Jen:

So don't turn things down.

Jen:

But sometimes you have to be creative and figure out if that thing that you offer,

Jen:

that's very specialized, how that fits in.

Jen:

And if you can make it work and if you can then go for it.

Jen:

So it's tricky sometimes, and you have to sometimes be very flexible about

Jen:

it but also don't be afraid to say no.

Shelley:

Yeah.

Shelley:

Or just use your imagination and creativity and say I can't do

Shelley:

that, but can I do this for you?

Shelley:

And yeah.

Shelley:

I heard about, I was at a conference and they did this and I wanna do that.

Shelley:

So how about if I do this for you?

Shelley:

I've seen people come on as DJs and during transition times absolutely.

Shelley:

On absolutely.

Shelley:

On things like that.

Shelley:

So there, Try to think outside the box a little bit, if you wanna be

Shelley:

involved in something like that.

Jen:

Absolutely.

Jen:

I've yeah.

Jen:

I've been in all kinds of things where they have DJs, they have

Jen:

people coming on stage and dancing.

Jen:

There's so many, it's so dynamic now that if you wanna get in with some

Jen:

people and you see a lot of people that you wanna get to know better and it

Jen:

fits, then find a way to make it work.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

That's really what we're talking about.

Jen:

So conferences you have to, so for conferences, The difference

Jen:

is, so this year for She Podcasts, I didn't have to apply.

Jen:

They asked me back.

Jen:

Nice.

Jen:

But the first time I did it, I did apply.

Jen:

So you have to go out there and you have to put yourself out there and learn how

Jen:

to pitch, learn how to pitch conferences, learn how to pitch speaking engagements.

Jen:

It's a good way to get some PR it's usually places where

Jen:

you can get your website.

Jen:

And then if you're speaking.

Jen:

It's a good way to workshop through ideas get the word out and share

Jen:

important information of value to your potential customers.

Jen:

Nice.

Jen:

While also offering value to the people running the conference or

Jen:

providing the speaking engagement.

Jen:

Yeah.

Shelley:

You definitely wanna focus on the audience.

Shelley:

Who's going to be at the conference.

Shelley:

What are they looking for?

Shelley:

What do they need and how can you fulfill their needs?

Shelley:

And then that is what you're going to focus on.

Shelley:

When you talk to the organizers.

Jen:

Yeah, it's really interesting.

Jen:

So we had our panel last year for sheep podcasts.

Jen:

We also had an app for the conference and I was like super active in that app.

Jen:

I was asking questions about, was asking people like, how

Jen:

do you market your podcast?

Jen:

What tools do you use?

Jen:

I was taking advantage of everything that they had to offer.

Jen:

And then we had.

Jen:

Hundred people sign up to go.

Jen:

It was like, there were a lot of people there, and I think it

Jen:

was that, and it wasn't just me.

Jen:

There was a panel of five people and everybody, started adding questions to

Jen:

it because it was just a good way to get people engaged and to get people in.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

So I think it was, I think it was a really good.

Jen:

Opportunity.

Jen:

And I think that it's an opportunity that to show some collaboration like you're

Jen:

collaborating, not just, and when it comes to a conference and to speaking, you're

Jen:

collaborating not only with the organizers of the event, you're collaborating

Jen:

with the people who are attending.

Shelley:

Yes.

Shelley:

Yes.

Shelley:

And if it's possible to reach out to them, even before you attend, that's all,

Shelley:

that's so much better because then you can develop a little bit of a relationship

Shelley:

before you even meet in person.

Shelley:

And then you use your time at the conference so much more efficiently

Shelley:

when you can do it that way.

Shelley:

Yeah, absolutely.

Shelley:

Yeah.

Shelley:

Do you wanna get into joint

Jen:

ventures at all?

Jen:

Have, do you wanna talk at all about summits and stuff or no, I think we've

Shelley:

done that.

Shelley:

Okay.

Jen:

Okay.

Jen:

I'm good with it.

Jen:

So joint ventures, affiliates, influencers.

Jen:

So this is more a pay to play stuff.

Jen:

So this is like I have a big audience.

Jen:

You have a big audience.

Jen:

Let's come up with an agreement with these it works great.

Jen:

You just have to be careful with things like I'm gonna share my

Jen:

email list and, cuz that goes against the terms of service.

Jen:

If I sign up for your email list, Shelley, I don't want you to go sell

Jen:

it to like your joint venture partner.

Jen:

So you wanna be really careful about that, but you can do cross promotions inside of.

Jen:

Your newsletter.

Jen:

I guess I've done that because I'm gonna, and I'll start doing it this week.

Jen:

When I start talking about speaking issue podcasts, like I'll have a link

Jen:

if people wanna sign up for that, but they're not paying me for that.

Jen:

That's a little different than a joint venture partnership.

Jen:

And affiliate links where like I get paid.

Jen:

If somebody.

Jen:

A buys convert kit or whatever.

Jen:

So those you wanna be extremely careful with because you're

Jen:

really getting, what I've

Shelley:

seen people do is they'll send out an email to their list and they'll

Shelley:

say something really good about, the thing the person or their product,

Shelley:

and then say, this is coming up.

Shelley:

And then at the bottom, it says, if you do not wanna receive any more

Shelley:

emails about this topic, opt out here.

Shelley:

So then they give you that option to, I don't have any interest in that.

Shelley:

And then you can just, and then you will be taken off of that

Shelley:

segmented list and you won't.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

I.

Jen:

I would just be really careful before doing some of that.

Jen:

I've have I have a whole newsletter about influencer marketing where you

Jen:

just have to make sure everybody's in.

Jen:

Everybody has to be all in, on influencer marketing.

Jen:

But yeah, just be really careful when you start getting financially into

Jen:

bed with people that they're legit and that it's gonna be good for your brand.

Jen:

And that's a really big part of cross promotion and collaborations is you really

Jen:

want that synergy and you also want.

Jen:

That you are in I'm a purpose driven organization, not a lot of marketing

Jen:

agencies and consultants are so I'm really cautious before I do any of that stuff.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

I have I have a long time before I'm willing to do that.

Jen:

If that's you're gonna wanna do the same thing.

Jen:

A lot of people just jump right in and I Don't.

Jen:

And I don't really recommend everybody just jumps in unless you're sure.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

If it's,

Shelley:

if this person is a friend of yours and you've done business with them

Shelley:

and you feel that they are very reputable.

Shelley:

Sure.

Shelley:

But if you haven't and you don't know, don't just do it for the money, right?

Shelley:

Yeah.

Shelley:

Yeah.

Jen:

I feel pretty good about this training.

Jen:

We didn't get any questions, but I feel like we provided

Jen:

a lot of good information.

Jen:

Yeah,

Shelley:

that's right.

Shelley:

That's right.

Shelley:

So if you would like to learn more about doing live streaming and starting

Shelley:

your own channel so that you have something to collaborate with and on

Shelley:

then go check out the framework that I have created the consist content,

Shelley:

consistency framework, and schedule.

Shelley:

You could find that@frameworkdotagkmedia.studio.

Jen:

which is awesome.

Jen:

Yeah, go do that.

Jen:

I'm gonna put, and I am continuing my Epiphany Courses special

Jen:

offer for podcast listeners.

Jen:

If you go to epiphany courses.com/podcast, that will take you to a special

Jen:

offer page for 15% off a monthly or annual subscription epiphany

Jen:

courses is very similar to how these lessons work except we have.

Jen:

Special times where it's just you and me.

Jen:

I'm answering questions with you.

Jen:

So if you like this style, if you like the openness of learning in

Jen:

this way then please consider, please go over to epiphany courses.

Jen:

There's 20 courses over there and consider signing up being one

Jen:

of the first people to be there.

Jen:

We've got, we've already signed up a few people.

Jen:

We're gonna, we're continuing to work on signing up even.

Jen:

Yay fun.

Jen:

Why don't we skip tweaks of the week?

Jen:

Okie doki, and go straight to the inspirational nuggets since we're.

Jen:

And here, I thought it was be a short show today.

Shelley:

Oh, we have so much to say . This is from Marcus Aurelius meditations.

Shelley:

Again, indeed.

Shelley:

If you find anything in human life, better than justice, truth, self control,

Shelley:

courage in short, anything better than the sufficiency of your own mind, which keeps

Shelley:

you acting according to the demands of true reason and accepting what fate gives

Shelley:

you outside of your own power of choice.

Shelley:

I tell you if you can see anything better than.

Shelley:

Turn to it, heart and soul and take full advantage of this

Shelley:

greater good that you've found.

Shelley:

So basically he's saying, you know what?

Shelley:

Money.

Shelley:

Is great, but chasing money can create problems climbing one mountain.

Shelley:

You see the next mountain that you have to climb.

Shelley:

There's never enough.

Shelley:

There's never enough unless you cling to virtue and virtue is the one

Shelley:

good that reveals itself to be more.

Shelley:

Than we expect virtue, which is made up of justice, honesty, discipline, and

Shelley:

courage is the only thing worth striving for certainly nothing will improve your

Shelley:

life path more than virtuous choices.

Shelley:

Doing your best work will always bring more satisfaction and better results

Shelley:

than doing the bare minimum or shirking responsibility, or just doing it for the.

Jen:

What do you think that really ties into what we talked about today?

Shelley:

Yeah.

Shelley:

Yeah.

Shelley:

So Toby and I have been talking a lot about choices this this week

Shelley:

what choices he's made in his life and where it's brought him to.

Shelley:

And.

Shelley:

Other people in our lives, what choices they've made and where

Shelley:

they're at in their lives.

Shelley:

And we can compare and say, why did you choose to go this way?

Shelley:

What made you think that was the right answer?

Shelley:

And it's usually about, doing the right thing for yourself and your

Shelley:

family, so that in the future, it'll be better making the hard choice now.

Shelley:

It will pay off later rather than immediate gratification of, I

Shelley:

don't like college I'm quitting.

Shelley:

Maybe if you stuck it out, maybe, life would've been a little different.

Shelley:

So think about those virtues as you're making those life decisions.

Shelley:

If you want your life path to go into a brighter future.

Shelley:

Wow.

Shelley:

Yeah.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

What I like about what you said is that doing your best work will always bring

Jen:

more satisfaction than doing the bare minimum or shirking responsibility.

Jen:

I sometimes overwhelm myself cuz I do too much of my best thing.

Jen:

Like sometimes I need to it doesn't have to be 150%.

Jen:

Maybe a hundred percent would be fine.

Jen:

And.

Jen:

But I always feel like you get out of something, what you put into it.

Jen:

Yes.

Jen:

And I feel like the best things have come to me at the times when I've

Jen:

put the most effort into something.

Shelley:

And you were talking about, when people get into a collaboration and

Shelley:

they're looking at what's in it for me then they say no, because I'm not making

Shelley:

enough money, or it's not gonna give me enough feed, enough ROI or whatever.

Shelley:

When did you miss out on, what are you gonna miss out on?

Shelley:

Are you gonna miss out on making a lifelong friend?

Shelley:

Are you gonna miss out on the possibility that you spoke for free to this group?

Shelley:

And then one of those people told somebody else who turned out to be your best

Shelley:

client, so maybe don't look at so much the short term what's in it for me and

Shelley:

think about, how am I helping the world?

Jen:

Absolutely.

Jen:

I, I think often about a meeting I was in and the person who brought me into

Jen:

the meeting, we get to the end and I was like, oh, this sounds really great.

Jen:

But I'm a teacher and it was a consulting gig and the person like

Jen:

shut their computer and said, I'm not gonna get anything out of this.

Jen:

And walked out, like this was like a professional meeting, and I

Jen:

was like, I just kinda sat there.

Jen:

And I looked at my This person, I didn't know, who's now a trusted colleague

Jen:

of mine and we just were like when we stayed, and here we are four years

Jen:

later still working in that partnership.

Jen:

And I can't even share with you how much I've gotten out of it.

Jen:

, was it something that was gonna pay, $20,000?

Jen:

That moment.

Jen:

No.

Jen:

Have I gotten, have I learned a lot about myself, about partnerships, about

Jen:

marketing, about small businesses?

Jen:

Absolutely.

Jen:

Like it has, it's the gift that has given me so much.

Jen:

And if I had just said, no, I can't, I don't know where

Jen:

I would be if I had just said

Shelley:

no, it's just shutting that door to a whole, whole

Shelley:

new world that you could.

Shelley:

Walked into

Jen:

and, and my friend, she's gone on to do great things.

Jen:

Different things.

Jen:

, and that's wonderful that there's nothing wrong with that, but it is

Jen:

about what it is that, that it's not always about the short term gain.

Jen:

Yeah.

Jen:

For me.

Jen:

Yeah.

Shelley:

Virtuous choices.

Shelley:

That's right.

Shelley:

Keep that in mind this week, as you're making choices in

Shelley:

your life and day to day and.

Shelley:

See what it does for you.

Shelley:

Yeah.

Jen:

Have a good week, everybody

Shelley:

Thank you for joining the Women Conquer Business podcast, hosted

Shelley:

by Shelley Carney and Jen McFarland.

Shelley:

Please subscribe and leave a comment or question regarding your most challenging

Shelley:

content creation or business problem.

Shelley:

Then share this podcast with family and friends so they can find the

Shelley:

support they need to expand their brand and share their message with the.

Shelley:

Check the show notes for links to valuable resources and come back again next week.

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