Our host, Cassi-Ann Jones and guest, Jasmine Uboma, engage in a thought-provoking dialogue that sheds light on the pressing need for innovation in educational approaches, particularly for marginalized communities.

Jasmine, a fourth-year statistics student, passionately shares her vision for Beyond Math, a nonprofit organization designed to cultivate critical thinking and STEM interest among Black youth. The discussion covers Jasmine's personal experiences with math and the impact of her family's educational values on her journey. Cassi-Ann skillfully navigates through Jasmine's insights into the evolving landscape of education, where technology, such as AI, plays a pivotal role in shaping future careers.

The episode underscores the importance of teaching skills that cannot be automated, such as adaptability and critical thinking, equipping students to thrive in an ever-changing world. Jasmine’s journey is framed not only as a personal success story but also as a call to action for aspiring entrepreneurs and educators to focus on community-building, networking, and fostering an inclusive environment where every student can succeed.

With a focus on mentorship and representation, this episode serves as an inspiring guide for young listeners seeking their paths in STEM.

Find them online:

Cassi-Ann Jones: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cassih/

Jasmine Uboma: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasmine-uboma/

Find us on Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/witlovepodcast/

Welcome to with Love, a podcast founded by women produced by women about women in technology.

There is a huge place for women in tech and this podcast is going to get well into the work as a leading contributor to help change the trajectory and see the rise of women in technology.

Sit back and enjoy as our young female hosts share energy with experienced professional women in technology.

Welcome to the WIT Love Podcast, a podcast that is connecting young hosts like me to professional women in tech where we'll get to share wisdom and learn about each other in the process.

My name is Cassie.

I'm a BMAth graduate from the University of Waterloo and I work as an information security analyst.

I am passionate about giving back to the community and have led several strategy data.

I am passionate about giving back to the community and have led several strategy, data and diversity initiatives for national and local organizations including Aspire, TD Bank, Motivate Canada, the Merit Award Bursary program, and the University of Waterloo Fintech Club.

In my free time, I love expanding my financial literacy knowledge and enjoy helping youth learn about financial management.

I am so thrilled to introduce our podcast guest today.

Jasmine Obama is a fourth year honors student in statistics at the University of Western Ontario and was director of Women in STEM and Women in leadership.

Beyond math enhances critical thinking in children as young as eight years old.

It has expanded into youth leadership, organizing networking events, workshops and socials for high school students.

Jasmine is an award winning author of Beyond Math Analytical Reasoning, Workbooks, an Amazon bestseller recognized by the Nigerian High commission and Western University.

She has received numerous accolades, including the Rising Star award and the Youth Excellence Award.

With that Jasmine, welcome to the Whitlam podcast.

Thank you so much for having me.

I am so honored.

That is a great introduction.

Well, you are a great person.

Again, we're so happy to have you on the show.

So for all of our guests listening in today, we'd love to start off with a couple warm up questions to get to know you better.

So starting off, if you could travel anywhere in the world, what would be your ultimate dream destination?

It's tied between two places.

I'm a tropical.

I love going to tropical places.

So it's Turks and Caicos, bora bora.

Fun fact, I'm actually going to Turks and Caicos for my birthday this year, so I'm so excited for that.

Oh, that is awesome.

You have to tell me how it is always wonderful.

Second question.

If you could time travel, would you go to the past, the future, and why?

Never the past, always the future.

I think that the future is so, like, bright, and I think it's going to be so different and so interesting with all, like, the new tech that we have coming up and, like, all the new advancements that we're doing as a society.

And I think that I just want to see, like, what, how the future plays out.

I don't know.

I'm always thinking ahead and I don't know.

The past is boring.

That's history.

I don't.

I can read about that if I.

If I want to, right?

There's definitely great lessons learned from the past, from those who came before us.

But I do agree there is so much potential for innovation and just to create a life and a world that is just so different than what we can fathom about right now in the present, that the future is a very exciting time.

And speaking about time, would love to start off by learning a little bit more about your journey to becoming the CEO of beyond math.

What inspired you to take this role?

Yeah.

I have two siblings, so we were always just either on TikTok, YouTube, rotting away in our beds, not going to class.

And she was like, you guys have to do something better with your time.

And she was like, do something that you're passionate about.

And at the time, the only thing that I was passionate about, I guess, was going to school and trying to figure out what I wanted to study.

And I was like, hmm.

You know, like, math is, like, the one thing that I've always been good at or always, like, made sense to me.

So I was like, why don't I do something, like, around math?

And then I kind of took inspiration from my grandma and my dad because they were the, you know, african parents after school, they're always, like, drilling you, like, teaching you and making sure that you're ahead of the class.

And so I was like, how do I put, like, what they've done for me after school until a resource that other kids get to use?

And so we decided to do, like, quantitative thinking, which is something that my dad and my grandma made me do so much after school, all the time doing these, like, books.

And I was like, huh?

I think it would be super cool if there's, like, a version of their out there for kids.

So my mom gathered the troops, and me, her and my brother, we kind of worked on it.

And then.

So it started out as the books, and then we realized that, I don't know, kids would need support to, like, be able to go through the books.

And that's how then we launched it into a not for profit organization and then working on, like, the free, like, math classes for the kids.

And then on top of that, we found out that having a space where kids get to come and learn and see how, like, stem really applies into the future, because I think sometimes we get lost in the school of it all and not realize, like, how important these things actually are.

It's how it kind of turned into then STEM leadership, and kids getting to talk to university students, high school students getting to talk to, like, younger professionals who were just like them, who were maybe didn't like math before but now love it or didn't like science before and now love it.

And, yeah, so now beyond math is what it is.

I'm so happy to hear that.

Number one, huge kudos to you.

I think that is such a powerful and impactful initiative.

And I love how actually it started out in, like, the pandemic during a time at which people weren't doing a lot.

And I really appreciated how you brought your own personal experiences, what you have learned from your family, family, and those values that they instill with you and decided to share it with a broader audience.

So I think that is fantastic.

And what also I love about the initiative is that a lot of times, students struggle, especially like, kids, younger students, struggle to see the value and impact of math.

They're like, when am I ever going to use a quadratic formula?

My favorite theorem?

Like, oh, no.

But what I love about your program is that, you know, it helps to contextualize and helps students understand.

Like, math isn't just, you know, like, isn't intended to just be a headache or we make you learn it just to learn it and to make your life miserable.

Like, it has incredible applications.

Incredible.

It's underpinned so many different industries.

And once you can see the value that it has not only in just, you know, math based fields, but I in a whole host of other fields, you really broadened your perspective of the world around us and how it works and is so integrated, and so many different fields are integrated as well.

So, again, I think you're doing such incredible work, and thank you so much for sharing that.

So I'd love to learn a little bit more about what is your vision for beyond math, and how do you see the company evolving within the next five years?

Yeah, so it's gone through quite an evolution already.

As I said, like, it started out as books and is now a nonprofit.

I think the biggest thing is getting the books out there into a broader audience and somehow integrating it into school curriculums, because I think that it's so important for these, like, thinking based programs to be available to everybody.

So, yeah, definitely trying to push it within school boards, whether it's used as an exit, exit ticket during independent learning.

I think that that's something super important that I think kids will really, really benefit from, because, I mean, critical thinking is not just for math.

It's literally the backbone of everything.

It's the backbone of who we are as a society.

So, yeah, definitely pushing it out there to schools.

I think also just being able to develop and run more programs.

We are still a very small company.

It really mainly is, we have a couple directors, and then it's me and my mom.

So, you know, it's a lot of work, and especially since she has a.

She's working.

I'm in school full time.

Our directors are in school full time also.

So I think as time goes on, we're hoping to get more people on staff and being able to, like, offer more round the year programs, because I think that the kids definitely benefit from it when they get to do those programs, and they're always looking for more.

So, yeah, being able to run a lot of the programs that we have.

More often, and, yeah, I think that is so incredible.

And again, I love how, you know, you focus on the fact that critical thinking isn't something that is only exclusive to math or stem based fields.

It literally underpins everything and anything.

And the earlier that you can teach those skills to youth, I think the better it will set them up for success, whether that's in the workplace or navigating through their early career or anything else to do with that.

One thing I also really love about beyond math is that it's a nonprofit.

It's something that there's no paywall behind, or it's not a product that you're trying to push, sell, et cetera.

So I'd love to learn more about what prompted the decision to keep it a nonprofit or to make it into a nonprofit as opposed to for profit company.

Yeah.

So I think the main reason is just because we're trying to reach as many kids as possible, and I think when you put a paywall up there, I think a lot of parents are less inclined to sign their kids up for whatever programming we may have just because there is money attached to it.

And I think that it's too important to be sidetracked by that type of thinking.

So making it, making our events free and having the kids come out, I think far outweighs anything that a for profit could bring in.

And also there's a lot more assistance with sponsorships and that type of thing to then keep getting the word out there and keep pushing it to these kids.

So I think, yeah, I don't think that a for profit, like, making it for profit would suit our vision at all.

Our vision isn't our vision really.

My vision really is just to help the kids.

It really just is to get them to see the benefit and the importance and to work on these skills now so that they don't struggle like a lot of us have later on.

And I think especially with the way that the world is changing with AI and everything that's coming up, I think that it's the skills that we're trying to develop here are so, so important and really need to be honed in on now.

And, yeah, I think that is so fantastic.

And again, I wish there was more copy you.

And we need more of that energy.

And I think it's so important, yeah, as you said, to, like, build those skills now so that you don't have to struggle later.

And I think we're gonna make that the quote of the episode because so important.

Right.

Like, being able to learn good, strong core foundational skills now will really help avoid or mitigate, you know, having to figure them out at a point later down the road when you really need them.

So I think that is such a phenomenal mission, and I really love the fact that, you know, your primary focus is on getting this information out, making it accessible.

And I think a big part of the accessibility model is not having it behind a paywall and making and keeping this as a nonprofit.

So I think that's fantastic.

So I know that you're likely very busy, you know, being a student, there's probably so much fun on your plate already.

So what motivates you personally in this work and what keeps you passionate about this cause given that there's just so much that you do?

I think genuinely, because it's so personal to me, I think, well, for sure, I would not be studying math at university if not for the push that my family gave me.

I don't know what I would have done, but I for sure would not have stuck in.

Stuck in it.

And I think a lot of kids fall victim to that, where they don't have the support or they don't have.

A lot of people fall into that math is hard or science is hard, and they can't really support.

Like, if that's something their kid wants to do, they don't necessarily know how to go about supporting their kids in that area.

Fortunately for me, everybody in my family is in, like, some sort of math sciences, so there was really all that support for me.

And so it's very personal to me to see that these kids are able to flourish in something because it's so disheartening to hear.

I like.

They don't like math because they think it's way too hard or whatever the case may be.

All my life, throughout all my.

I was in gifted math classes, I was always the only black kid.

And they're still, to this day, out western.

In my.

In my classes, I'm usually one of two, maybe sometimes it's just me, and it's really disheartening to see.

And there's a.

And there's a lot of other ethnic groups that are there, and you just don't see us represented in those spaces.

So it's.

Even if I wanted to forget it, I can't, because that is literally my world, and I see it all the time.

So I guess that's kind of what keeps that passion.

And I will say, though, sometimes it does get tiring.

But, you know, my mom's got my back.

She's my personal assistant.

She'll be.

If I.

If I don't want to do something, she'll be blowing up my phone.

You're like, you know, you got to do this.

I'm like, okay, I got it.

So, yeah, honestly.

Yeah.

It's just kind of being that it's basically my world, so I see it all the time, so I definitely can't forget it.

And also my mom there to always keep that fire lit under me, so.

Yeah, that's so wonderful.

And two things that really resonated with me is one, the support piece, and one, the representation piece.

I think it is so important, especially for youth amongst various minority communities, to be able to see what they want to be.

Right.

If I could see it, I can be it.

And especially with industries and areas where, you know, predominantly your client isn't seen or our kind isn't seen.

Like, it is so empowering to be able to, you know, see other.

Other leaders that have, you know, gone through the space, who's been there, done that.

Because even if it's just to give you that courage and hope that if they can do it, so can I.

So I, by what you're doing and the fact that this is something that, you know, is, again, reading the fact that, you know, you're heading this up as an incredible young leader, it's going to give a lot of young students, especially young black students, hope that they can do similar things.

So again, big kudos to you.

Thank you.

So how do you balance those demands of being a CEO with your personal life?

I would say I try my best to plan it around when I do have more free time.

So I definitely using my reading weeks, my summer vacation to get the big things that we're doing out of the way.

I think I just, I don't know.

I just, I will say that it definitely makes it easier because I'm not the only one planning it.

So definitely, again, like, my mom just being there and supporting me and sometimes she takes point on certain projects if, like, it's too overwhelming for me at the time, balancing school or work or whatever the case may be and kind of just having her there.

Yeah.

Really just being my support.

But I guess it really comes down to great organization and trying to pre plan as best as possible to make sure that it's not too much.

And as a student, you kind of know when your most heaviest periods are, when it comes to midterms or finals.

So making sure that my calendar is clear then, and then maybe jam packing it, the stuff into the week and.

A half where I'm free, I think that's so important.

And that's something that I think if one of the biggest things you learn as a student is that, you know, time management piece, understanding the cycles when you're busy here and not.

I completely appreciate that I did there, done that.

Switching gears a bit.

So, you know, we talked a little bit, briefly, touched on, you know, technology and AI and the impact or potential it might have.

So how does beyond math incorporate technology into its education programs?

And what role do you see technology playing in the future of education?

Yeah, in terms of technology, I think we're just starting to kind of try and incorporate that and pivot into that.

I think we spent the beginning, since we've been operational for only a little bit.

I think we were really working on trying to get that foundational stuff going, but with the core group of kids that we kind of that always come to our events.

I think in the upcoming year, we want to try and transition into maybe doing maybe a coding workshop or something and trying to get those foundational skills again built.

Because I think that with the way that the world is going and the digitalization going on, I think it's so important to know, be aware and be in the know of what's going on.

And I think, I think when it comes to education, I think that we need to pivot, I guess the way that we teach things, because the way that things were taught maybe 30 years ago is not going to be working today when Chat GBT is there.

You can't test me the same way that I was tested because, I mean, chat GT is now going to be a resources that we're going to have forever and ever.

Every company, every company is building their own AI chat bot to be, do, like to help you code whatever like it is, or help you write an email.

I don't write emails anymore.

I tell, like, we have this thing called, like, it's like an Alexa, but, like, built in for the company that I work with.

And I don't write emails.

I just like, hey, I need this, this written it, like, spit something out for me.

Slideshows, things like that.

Like, I think it's.

I think a lot of our classes kind of need to reflect that and reflect where we are as a society because I think that, I know that they are trying to still teach foundational things, but I think they're kind of really leaving out what's important, like what our future, like what our present and our future looks like.

And I think that a lot of us are going to get left behind if we're not up with those trends and, and things like that.

I think you can see that with, like, the layoffs that a lot of these companies are doing because they don't need those skills, those old skills that we had, things that can be repeated.

They just get AI to do it.

So it's like, I think it's so important for us to pivot.

And I guess that's essentially what, beyond math's role in that is not necessarily to teach the tech part of it, but to teach the skills that can't be replaced, which is that critical thinking, which is the power to adapt, the power to learn and unlearn and move quickly with, like, the trends.

Because I think when you're able to do that, you can't ever be left behind because you'll adapt super quickly.

Right.

I think there's so much truth in that answer you gave.

And firstly, Jasmine, I can only imagine like, you know, people of a couple decades ago, like this kind of conversation would be undead fathomable to say like, oh yeah, you know, tell some in.

Parts of this thing, email.

So they'd be like, what kind of Sci-Fi movie am I in?

And it's just how even just like listening and talking this through, it's like how incredibly far we've come.

Honestly, like two years ago we didn't have chat.

GPT I know, I was actually thinking back and I was like, wow, maybe I was kind of smarter two years ago because I did I rely on chat to do like these like mundane tasks so much.

I'm like, how was I doing this and how did I get through school?

Like doing these like particular things, like how did I get through doing it without chat?

GBT.

So just to see how far we can, we came in like two years.

So imagine we get another ten years with the use of AI plus our human brain.

What could come out of that I'm excited to see, because that will definitely be crazy.

A thousand, a thousand percent.

And one other thing I loved about what you said is the importance of being agile and being able to pivot and being able to adapt to, you know, various, whatever the landscape looks like.

And you know, there's a lot of discussion around, okay, AI is going to like replace jobs and this, that and then some.

But I feel like not the entire anecdote, but I feel like part of what can at least help bring people peace is that change has probably, probably been one of the only constants that's happened throughout history, right?

People have had to adapt to the industrial revolution at first, and then it was like the.com era, then it was chaotic.

So it's throughout all of those major changes, what has helped people progress is their ability to be agile, to seek out other opportunities to look at, okay, what are the different ways in which that I could either take advantage of an opportunity or upskill for another field or area.

And those skills are so important, especially for youth to have, because once you see that, okay, like, hey, I can learn anything, and if change is going to happen, change has always happened.

I can, I know that I am capable of adapting.

What that does is that gives them hope, right?

Gives them hope, it gives them peace and it gives them motivation to actually pursue these careers.

So again, I think such fantastic insights and answers and really appreciate all of your insight.

All right, so I'd love to know, what advice would you give to aspiring entrepreneurs, especially those looking to make a difference in education.

Whoa.

That's a good question.

For aspiring entrepreneurs in general, I would say you got to find that support system.

I think that you will get tired and you will get burnt out very easily.

I mean, that's basically true for anything that's worth anything.

But you will get tired and there's points where you want to not do it or you want to quit.

But I think having someone in your corner and always there advocating for you and pushing for you and rooting for you, I think really makes all the difference in the world.

And so whether that's a parent, whether that's some other mentor or whoever it may be, I think having them in your corner is super important.

And I think in terms of making change in education, I think it's all about the people you know and who they know and kind of networking.

And I think that's something that I'm also working on myself.

I don't necessarily love to, like, go and put myself out there and meet new people, but I think, I mean, no change can be made if you're not, like, going out there and really pushing and advocating for what you believe in.

So I think, yeah, being able to go to or know people who may know people who are influential.

So whether that's maybe you have a connection to your MPP, you have a connection to maybe someone in the school board, a superintendent, a director here, or whatever the case may be, I think, yeah, it's kind of being connected in that web, and even if you have one person that really believes in your cause and believes what you're doing, I think that'll go a long way just because whatever, they'll do their best to open whatever doors they have available.

And even if they don't have all the doors available, they know someone else who can open those doors for you and kind of get your cause out there 100%.

And as you said, sometimes all I need is one person to say, hey, I believe you can do it.

And I think that is something that is so impactful about your program, is that the idea is that you're bringing people together and you're creating community for those people who have not previously had a community.

That could be the difference, right?

In an environment where they feel supported, where they feel like, you know, their ideas are heard and that, you know, people actually believe in their potential.

And that's huge.

Huge.

So, again, big, big kudos to you.

So one of the last questions I want to ask is, what message or legacy would you like, to leave for the next generation of youth?

Whoa.

That's a good question.

I would say, don't be afraid to go into something that you may not see a clear path in.

I think, for me, when I chose to go into stats, I had no idea what I was gonna do.

I had no idea where it would take me.

And I was like, you know what?

And I went into something that I had never really heard of people doing before.

And honestly, it was a suggestion by my uncle, and I was like, okay, well, you know what?

It seems interesting enough.

I'll do it.

And I think going into it has been one of, like, the greatest, like, opportunities in my life because it opens so many doors that I didn't even know were available, and it's not something that's really talked about.

So, yeah, not being afraid to go into something, even if you're unsure about it, I think being able to take that leap of faith is something so, like, important.

And, honestly, you will find your way.

Life is not, like, I can't.

Like, what life was like for me four years ago is definitely not what it is now.

I mean, what's meant for you is meant for you, and you'll find your way to wherever you're supposed to be and wherever you'll thrive.

So, I think be okay.

And it's okay if you make mistakes.

It's okay if it doesn't go out the way that you plan.

But, like, I guess just having no fear and having faith that it will all work out at the end, I.

Feel like that all used to be on, like, a t shirt.

I love that.

I think that's so great.

And, you know, number one, like, going back to the mistake, like, mistakes are part of the journey, right?

Like, you learn through trial and error.

So, you know, not being afraid to fail because it's part of the journey.

That's how you learn.

Honestly, you.

Honestly, you actually learn the most from your mistakes.

Honestly, like, if I, like, going through academically, second year was one of the hardest times of my life, and honestly, like, I wouldn't be where I am today if not for making those mistakes and learning through it and trying to persevere through it and come out on top, still fighting.

So, yeah, definitely just make those mistakes 100%.

And then I also wanted to say, like, stats out of my math degree, like, that was on courses that I could not stand.

So thank you for all stats.

Give me calculus any day.

Stats?

Calculus over stats.

Really?

Oh, wow.

Oh, wow.

I would take any stats class over any I calc literally gives me PTSD.

I can't lie.

Like, it literally gives me PTSD.

I'm so sorry.

Integrating.

No, I can't do it.

I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't.

That is too funny.

Well, again, I do appreciate everything you do in that, but I also wanted to touch on, you know, the point you said earlier about, you know, like, keeping an open mind in terms of you navigating.

Like, you didn't know that you wanted to do stats, and now you've kind of built out this great, you know, program.

You've built up this.

You made it through school.

And what I love about that is, especially in areas or in the stem field, so much of the jobs or the job space is still yet to be discussed, covered.

Right?

Like, even, like, cybersecurity, that's where I'm in now.

And it's like, there wasn't full cybersecurity teams like, you know, 20 years ago.

Right.

Like, so with Stem, with, you know, within that space, I think just being open minded, as you said, and just, you know, like, not being afraid to just try something and see how it evolves and blossoms is a part of that journey, because Stem is innovation.

A good portion of it.

Right.

And when you keep your mind open to that, especially when you're young, you might end up being someone that's gonna, you know, work in a job or position that literally, like, isn't the case today, isn't created today.

You get to write and you get to set the rules.

And that's the exciting part about being in this.

Right, exactly.

And I think what's so what I love about STeM is that it's not necessarily what you learn that you use, but it's more so the resilience and the willingness to learn that comes out of stem that I think is so important and why I think, honestly, most people that I know who go into stem don't even stay in the field that they actually studied.

I think everyone at some point, pivots, whether they, like, you, end up pivoting.

Absolutely.

I think that's kind of been a subtle theme throughout this podcast.

You're saying it's like, you know, being able to thrive, being able to adapt, being able to be resilient and those are all skills that will serve you well, not only for those young people doing your program or that you work with in school, but also well beyond that.

Excellent.

So thank you so much Jazen, for your time.

I am very sad that we are nearing the end of our episode and I do want just to say a huge thank you to you, the work that you do, how you inspire other leaders, and for again, creating this great initiative.

So well done and thank you so much for your time.

Thank you awesome to our audience tuning in today.

Thank you so much for listening and for your support.

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