Joel Austin Daddy University

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Joel: Hi my name is Joel Lawson. I'm President, c e o of Daddy University Incorporated. We are a male parenting education company founded in 2004 and we help fathers become better fathers. And one of our initiatives in our programs is the Doulas for Dads program. And I am a certified postpartum doula. 


We specifically work with couples and we enjoy our work every single day. 


Okay? Yes, we do. Okay, good. Okay, good. So first of all, like how, like what made you decide that you wanted to be a postpartum doula? I 


Joel: was, Attending the maternal health conferences to gain more information. I was attending the black maternal health conferences. I was attending the breastfeeding conference, and I'm also on the alliance, the Delaware County Alliance for Breastfeeding. 


And I started to realize a trend. And the trend was they talk about some of the issues, talk about some of the problems, and I realized from my standpoint and from other new dads and other dads standpoint, I was a solution to that. I was solution to a lot of things. I was a solution to bringing comfort. 


I wrote a paternal grant and they granted us, and I now have eight other trained postpartum doula males, postpartum doulas in our area. 


Trish: Okay, so go you number one, and whoever approached you, go that person because that's pretty cool. But like to get real. So like one of the conversations like I po So I posted a post just recently on like how nasty that fir like go into the bathroom Yes. 


Do you find like some women get shy with a male doula or do you think that's not been a problem? So 


Joel: you said, let's be honest and clear. Yeah, that's what we want. 80% of my clients, their gynecologist, is a male. Yeah. So let's just, number one people, oh my God. Yeah. You go see the doctor. 


Twice a month. So that's not an oddity. And some of the best OBGYNs are, you try to get in to see the male. So secondly, I'm a so 


Trish: touche on that, but still it's a little different than having a good looking guy coming into your house, squatting in front of your toilet. 


Joel: I'm postpartum also. 


Yeah. So you look at me and if you look at my PO gender as a male, you'll say males aren't exposed to this and that. But then if you look at my position, which is I'm a dad of four this is. I don't know. You said be real. This you're, it's not the first Regina. I've had four babies. Those are not the first time I saw someone breastfeed. 


So it's not an AAL thing for me. It's more of miracle for me. 


Trish: And I'm just so you know, I've worked with a lot of male labor and delivery nurses and I know, like you see a boob, you've seen a boob. When you work, you it becomes your work. Yes. So I'm not saying it in a way, I'm just talking for my moms. 


I know what my girls think and so I'm asking what I know my girls are gonna be 


But then on the other hand my meals are prepped and I get a chance to take a bath. Those are. The trade off is amazing. Yeah. 


Trish: And I just wanted to get that out there because I want that out there. Like one of, one of the, my first guest on the podcast was AJ and he is a labor nurse and he's incredible and I love that he got so sick of people asking him on social media like, They just bring up like you're a labor and delivery nurse and you're right. 


Joel: And I found that when you're throwing up, you don't care. 


Trish: Yeah, you don't care. You just some, you want someone to take care of you, and when you have hemorrhoids and you can't get a solution to how bad that hurts, you don't care who helps solve the problem. So yes, so I love that. You did that because what we need is women to be taken care of in the postpartum period. 


Yes. Because. I'm in a weird zone right now as a labor and delivery nurse. So if you being in this space you probably know this, but labor and delivery and postpartum are almost like oil and water in the hospital. So like when I'm working on a, in labor and delivery in the past and I get floated to postpartum, I'm like, ugh. 


Labor Nurse Mama. We have opened up a postpartum membership and it was by default because I missed my pregnant mamas, cuz we do a weekly hangout. So we opened up this postpartum side of it and it has been the most beautiful surprise, but it's also been an eyeopener for me because there is a huge gap in our care in this country. 


Joel: I don't think they do yet. We are only since 2020 our doulas have been working in the industry and then we only work with couples. 


So when I go to visit somebody, I'm visiting both. I speak the language. I'm bilingual. I speak maternal language. And I also speak paternal language. I'm able to explain what nesting looks like for mom, why she's doing this, and what nesting looks like for dad. Dad's do nest. It looks totally different though. 


They look psychotic. But you need to know what it looks like and know that's why he's fixing the steps that have been broken for 20 years and now he wants to fix the garage door because the baby has to come through the garage door one day so it looks different. And then also talk about postpartum depression and baby blues and moms, which is like one in four. 


It's supporting you, it's supporting the mom, it's supporting the new dads. And our motto at doulas for dads is I'm having a baby too. Not that I'm actually physically having one, but mentally I'm freaking out too. I'm nervous too. I don't know what's gonna happen to her too. I don't know if the baby's gonna be healthy too. 


I don't know. Nutrition too, like I don't know all these answers and I'm. I leave this hospital with a baby and either I'm gonna know how to care for it or I'm not knowing how to care for it. And that's where we need to change. 


Trish: So I wanna rewind. Okay. Just a little, and because something you said just really hit me hard because I spend so much time with the mom and. 


Joel: depression, baby blues, or postpartum depression? 


Absolutely. It's interesting. 


Trish: That's so interesting cuz I just was talking to my husband because I've, I hear it a bit. Cause I do, with my birth classes, we hang out with our girls. We have a weekly coaching call, so I'm a little bit different than most birth classes. So I get to know these girls like they're in my heart. 


And so I was just telling my husband again, I've heard this again and he's I don't get it cuz my husband and I got married late in life. He's never had children. And he's I just don't understand. I was like, I don't either, but that is really interesting. To hear that and even when you were saying about the, the husband nesting by fixing this, I can only imagine. 


And she's thinking, why the hell are you fixing the garage door? We need the crib put together. Absolutely, 


Because here's the other thing I'm thinking, why are we building a crib in the first trimester? We got six months, I can put that bad boy together with the tools in five minutes. But my job and other people's job is to say the crib lowers stress. Any type of form of lower stress is lower stress on mom. 


But then he's not, he's thinking in a by step manner. So we now have to say, these are mom's top tens. These are your top tens. Let's finish her first five first, then you can do yours. Let's do her next five and then she's gonna be all right. Or either, let's knock out her whole 10 and you're free to make sure that the carburetor on the car is running correctly. 


Cause you need to, there's air and all tires because God forbid a flat tire comes when I bring my baby home. The answer to all the questions are for his erratic behavior is I'm thinking about when I bring the baby home. I love that. It could and I it could be something, it could be window because the baby needs to see out the window and it's, that's what it looks like. 


Joel: We, we've become be able to communicate both sides and then also communicate. Yeah. Medically, not medically, but talk about what some things could happen and what your role is in jumping into that. 


All of my dads cannot birth. They are not able to have children, but I do put them in charge. They are now in charge of hospital visits. They are now in charge of OB G Y N visits. They are the head in charge and the leader of nutrition for mom. We put them in these places of power to make sure there is support. 


You there. There's nap time for mom. You are the leader of nap time. If you are if you're mother-in-law wants to keep coming over just for a kiss. You are in charge of regulating mom in-law's, visits. Cause that, I love it 


Trish: like a guard. Dog 


Joel: security. Baby security. Cuz we always have that one aunt. 


Trish: One of the workshops we had in our community was called accepting Imperfect Help, and that was just, it was such a good workshop and for me, I, I have adult children down to eight, and I, it was such a learning curve because I realized what she was teaching was that when we, when our partners trying to help us with baby and were constantly critic. 


Critiquing and criticizing and saying no. That's not the way. Don't do it like that. If they're helping and it's it's safe, yes, then just take it. Let them help you. It doesn't matter if they don't hold the baby the way you do or wrap the baby, or maybe the diaper's a little wonky or whatever. 


I know, and I'm speaking for myself. So for those of you guys listening, and I don't wanna make assumptions, but I know for myself in my own path, I would cri critique my ex, and then I would also resent. So I would want him to do more. Yes. But I would resent what he did. So he was like damned if he did and damned if he didn't in certain areas, and so I, 


Yeah. And a rock bottom way. I've seen it happen with my couples and I have to tell all of your people that pee. The P does not care if the Velcro was on the back or the front. The poop does not care whether the it will. Yeah. It does not pee does not vomit, does not critique. If I don't have it, swaddled correctly the baby will let you know whether it's swaddled correctly, yeah, your child, the baby will also teach you. 


We as the motherhood sorority and also the fatherhood fraternity, have to stop this pride and ego. You're not supposed to do it all. That's why it's called motherhood. It's not called single hood. It's, there's a, there are moms waiting, and I had to say this. There are moms. Sitting around waiting for the phone call for when you need help. 


They do noth they look like they're working. They look like they're, but they're waiting for you to say, Hey, I need water or I need this. And there's this mom train of instinct ability that comes into the sorority, comes into play. You'll have a pile of food at your front door if you just snap your fingers cuz we all been there and know. 


Trish: Man, you just inspired me so much because, I. I, I have such a heart for community that's and mentoring women. I've done it in my church. 


I've and we've been meeting as a team and like, how can we, like I told you, this postpartum side of my membership came out of nowhere, but it's declared itself and it's a need and so we wanna meet it. And I, as you're talking, I was like, gosh, we need to set up a meal train for these new moms. And then my other members, if they wanna send a meal, they can send a meal. 


They don't have that the way we did. So it, it is a little bit different, but you're right, like we need to come alongside each other and be. It would change a lot of aspects of our culture. They have 


Joel: a little better because your meal train right now can be a hundred dollars gift card to Uber Eats. 


Because specifically we talk about breastfeeding, water is in the cap, everything. 


Trish: Pregnancy 


Or the, the pride comes in where, oh no, I got this. Yes, and you're getting up and down trying to prepare food. 


Trish: Yeah we tell our girls all the time be real. When someone says th this is what we teach our girls inside of Call Mama is when they're getting ready to have their babies. We teach them how to set up boundaries and also to ask for real help. 


So if your friend. And we say, don't invite your friend that you know is gonna sit on your couch and wanna ooh and all day over the baby. You wanna ask your friend that you can say, Hey, can you please do a load of laundry? Yes. Can you stop at Trader Joe's? Yes. And bring me two meals for me and my partner. 


Really we are, 


Joel: no, we are postpartum doulas and that is our job. It's usually three hours a day to, to, you already know to get that meal prep and to teach that. The difference with doulas for dads is that when dad is there, we teach 'em that as well. So when we do leave, there's ongoing care for mom. 


If you have to be to work at nine o'clock, then you have to switch your schedule, schedule to get up at six, and then at six o'clock all the food preps are, all the food is in the freezer. And if mom has to get up, she mics a microwave something for a minute, or either warms up something in an air fryer for a minute and her food is already prepped and that saves you from feeling guilty if you have to go to work. 


But if you can take off and. This is what you can do. Cause you can complain about a lot of things as a mom. But once you find out that if you breastfed and then if you pump and if you put the milk in the freezer and that is taught how to, to chest feed, you can get something that every mom wants. 


It's this miracle gift. It's called a nap. It is wonderful. It fits every size. It, you don't have to check it. It is called a nap. And it is a wonderful gift. I'm not 


Trish: sure I know it. What is that? It's 


Joel: new. It doesn't come often. If you can get a half hour, 15 minutes of someone learning how to swaddle, which is only wrapping something around a football, duh. 


Trish: Yeah. It's I tell my girls all the time it's not surprising to a mom that they use sleep deprivation in prisoner of war camps. That's not, that's a no-brainer. 


They could get anything out of anyone when they, when you have a toddler or a newborn, like seriously, there's no, there's just nothing. Like I, I swear we talk on our post postpartum hangout. We talk about sleep and breast milk. 99 insects 99% of the time. Those are our main topics. Most of the time. 


Joel: I feel that way too. I feel that we teach our dads, of course to always keep complimenting mom on everything. Because a new mom, there's nothing, there's no person on this earth more nervous than a new mother or more nervous about everything. And there's nothing, there's no one more nervous than a new dad as well. 


He looks at the outside world and thinks I'm ready to move. So we keep trying to get them to compliment each other. You're doing your best. You're doing your best. You're brand new at this. So I don't know where you get these expectations from that. You're supposed 


Trish: well from Instagram and other moms. 


Indu. Get induced. Get induced. If you don't wanna vaccinate, don't vaccinate. It's your choice. But there is not gonna be mom shaming and there is so much. Pressure on these new moms. And I was just about to ask you, I know the dads are nervous, but do you think they really care what other dads are saying, like moms do? 


Joel: No, they don't care what other dads are saying because Unfortunately, and it's very unfortunate. You're absolutely right about mom pressure. Other moms pressure, other moms, and then us also other moms have this classism with other moms. Other moms are like I did not need an epidural. So I guess that puts you in some certain, which I think we really have to get into the fact that in this life, if, for maternal health, The fact that you live through your birth and your child lived through your birth, you are a number one. 


Half the time, you're just hoping that you don't laugh, so you don't fart or pee on yourself. So I. As the dad, I'm sitting there writing down information writing down this. And then you sometimes come to me and be like, what did she say? Or he say, and I'm like, oh, she said that we have to go for a walk. 


Or you have to ask him. I don't know. I just go to the appointment and. Feel the way I feel. 


Trish: Yeah. What did he say? He said nothing in your vagina for eight weeks. That's what he said. 


Joel: So we can be used as these security used as. Yeah. A secretary used as a nutritionist, used as support systems, used as a crying shoulder. 


Most of my dads are wondering one question, and I have to tell all of you that all of my dads only have one question on their mind. And the question is, How can I help? I apologize, but half of your moms will tell them I, I don't know. Our job is to come in and say, these are the ways you can help. 


I love 


Trish: that because I honestly was thinking we never know what to say because my husband asked me that now and half the time, let's just say like I'm having a really bad day or I don't feel well, that is my go-to answer cuz I really don't know myself. How to ask for help. So I love that you're teaching them in practical steps. 


There's times when she's I just want you to sit down and I'm going to lay on your lap and watch tv. That's it. 


Trish: I love that too. And one of the things that I have found that these new moms need is to. Talk about their birth, especially if they're not super happy with how it turned out. 


You know what I mean? It's, it doesn't matter which way you go. There's always that person who makes you feel bad. And sometimes these moms just need to talk about it. They don't need advice. They don't need anybody to tell him. And I tell my husband this all the time cuz he feels like he needs to give me like, The lowdown, like how to handle it. 


So I think I just love that aspect. So I'm super excited about you to come coming in to our community and teaching this workshop. Like I now I know how to pump my girls up for this workshop, and I know which direction, like I really want you to come in and talk to them about how they can understand. 


Their husband's language and how to communicate to their husband what they need during that time, what nothing 


If you wanna switch it back, the Velcro around the front, you can, but be honest with you. Again, Pete doesn't care and then, and didn't encourage much as you can like because yeah, the reality in this world is that no one else in this world has the level of safety and protection and want for the betterment. 


Then your other partner, that's my legacy. That's my new daughter. That's my new son and I'm trying my best and be honest with you, you're trying your best too, cuz you're not. You've been, you've had a baby. Seven days ago, it, you're not a wizard. You're not, yeah. There's no lightning strike that gives you the all-knowing knowledge of the mother of gods like you. 


You're, you are questioning yourself while I'm questioning myself. And sometimes it's just us two. It's not the social media, it's not the world. It's just me and you against the world with our new child so reliably. And just laugh together, and be scared together. And guess what? It's okay to say I have no clue. 


Trish: I think that's good and I loved that as well. And what was funny is my son edits my podcast and while she was talking about accepting imperfect help, I think we, we as moms, a lot of times we do that to our children too. 


Like we nitpick and that's how they learn to, to do chores. Obviously we have to train them to do a good job and, but, Still learning to accept imperfect help is a really good quality. It's 


Joel: It's, and then knowing that we learn from experience, let's say you put the diaper on wrong and poop squeezes out all the sides, cleaning that up, there's no better lesson, 


Trish: especially if it's meconium. 


Trish: been tough. 


I am so glad that you came on here today. This has been such a good talk. I love it. And I love what you're doing. I think it's so powerful and I think that you need to branch out. Yes. All over. So can you tell everyone where they can find you on the internet? And I know that you're in Philadelphia. 


Yes. But I travel. Okay, so give everybody all the information. 


Joel: We are at Daddy University I n c on Facebook. Same thing. Daddy University I nnc on Instagram, LinkedIn, Joel Austin LinkedIn Daddy University Twitter Daddy University. We have our website is daddy you niv.com and you can. Register you can and sign up for Contact us. 


It's an amazing to. Because it's all about support and support, and we find that supporting is I'm not gonna say cure but can decrease a lot of issues that resolve at. And our motto is that we are having a baby too, which means we are freaking out too. So we need the same services and the same handheld that you do all my dads are thinking, at the end when it really comes down to it and they wheel somebody in the dad is thinking, I don't know if she's coming back out. 


And so every now and then just check on them to see if they're okay. 


Trish: I love that. It's so powerful. I'm really, thank you so much for what you're doing and thank you for coming today. 


Trish: Awesome. We'll probably have you back then. Thank you. And we'll see you inside of the membership. 


I can't wait for your workshop. 


That episode was powerful. I loved interviewing Joel. I think what he's doing with this postpartum care, postpartum doulas, so incredibly powerful. Please leave a review and tell me what you thought about what Daddy University is doing. Amazing. Hit subscribe, leave a review, and as always, I'll see you again next Friday. 


Bye for now.