Episode Summary:  This segment is from a longer episode in which Brian, Leekei and Jenn all shared recent conversations on climate that made them regain hope  

The conversation underlines the value of unified, non-confrontational discussions to inspire collective and positive change towards a more sustainable future.

The dialogue highlights the significance of recognizing and modifying everyday behaviours that harm the planet, promoting alternative, eco-friendly practices. 

It suggests that individual actions, informed by awareness and understanding, can lead to significant environmental improvements. 

To listen to the full episode go here.

For more information on the project and to order your copy of the Carbon Almanac, visit thecarbonalmanac.org

Want to join in the conversation?

Visit thecarbonalmanac.org/podcasts and send us a voice message on this episode or any other climate-related ideas and perspectives.

Don’t Take Our Word For It, Look It Up!

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Featuring Carbon Almanac Contributors Brian D Tormey, Jenn Swanson and Leekei Tang

Brian is a Real Estate Title Insurance Professional and Goat Farmer in the US.

From Langley in British Columbia, Canada, Jenn is a Minister, Coach, Writer and Community Connector, helping people help themselves.  

Leekei is a fashion business founder, a business coach, an international development expert and podcaster from Paris, France. 

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The CarbonSessions Podcast is produced and edited by Leekei Tang, Steve Heatherington and Rob Slater.

Correct.

2

Well, and that's part of, you know,

it's interesting, part of, uh, you know,

3

this Josh's methodology in whom he's

seeking out to have conversations with

4

is around, Not just anyone, but actually

people who themselves could have a

5

cascading effect, a rippling effect of

their own influence or decision making.

6

You know, and he sort of recognizes that.

7

He and his time can't scale infinitely.

8

He can't go spend time and have a

conversation, follow the SP method

9

with every single person in the world.

10

That's not feasible.

11

But he can go be mindful, uh, in both

who he speaks with and, and tries this

12

method out with for their decision making

or influence power or with people who

13

can like go learn the method themselves.

14

and then go be, uh, sort of their own

amplifying version of this by going and

15

following some of this methodology to

have to take what can often be these

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like, very confrontational conversations.

17

Uh, you know, I grew up in a timber and

ranching community where, um, people

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really love and take care and I would

consider them, I would say that they're

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often like some of the best stewards

of the, of the environment around them.

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but there's sometimes still like

decisions that they're making that

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are not good for the environment in

ways that they can't necessarily,

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it's not immediately perceivable.

23

And I, I, I look forward to having follow

this sort of method with some of those

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people in my, in my life that we see.

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Differently on what we should do with our

day and time and energy, but we, I think,

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down deep believe in the same kind of

concept of this level of like stewardship

27

and leaving things better than we founded

and, and what that means, I think down

28

deep, that's a uniform perspective.

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JENN: beautiful.

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I'm interested to hear what this whole

method is and how, how to find out

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Brian: More, more to come.

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We're we're actually, we were, Josh and I

were discussing, we, you know, through the

33

creation of the Carbon Almanac Network,

this very big, wonderful global network,

34

we were sort of discussing the idea of,

okay, maybe we go like maybe there's some

35

people in this network who wanna say, yep.

36

let me go try, let me try this methodology

out a little bit and start to sample it

37

in other cultures and in other locations

and through different people to start

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seeing like, how well does it scale as

you, as you pass the baton of method

39

from one person to the next, to the next.

40

Leekei: Yeah, I think it's very

interesting because personally I've

41

always been very reluctant to talk

to people or try to start a , climate

42

conversation with people that are not

sharing the same perspective and, and.

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I'm not helping so much.

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I mean, I'm, I'm choosing the easy

path, so I also want to learn how

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to do it and try to talk to people

that don't share my worldview

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because we'll talk about worldviews.

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Brian: Mm-hmm.

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. Yeah.

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Well, it's cause it's.

50

You don't wanna have a

confrontational conversation.

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It's not because that doesn't lead to

the, your goal is behavior change, right?

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Your goal is likely perspective and

behavior change that will have an impact

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in the choices they make and the influence

they have in the world, and the impact

54

on the environment and their footprint.

55

But having a headbutting contest with

someone probably just has them dig their

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heels in and lean into the headbut.

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In many cases as opposed to helping

them come to a new perspective.

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JENN: So it's about, it's

about unifying, right?

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I think, I think our world right

now is just in so much pain and so

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much, um, there's so much despair and

grief that the more of these kinds of

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unifying conversations and invitations

we can have the better, uh, less

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confrontation and more connection

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I'm seeing, I'm feeling it everywhere

and seeing it everywhere and all

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the work, all the work that I do and

the conversations that I have that

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people are just tired of arguing.

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Brian: tired of the

divisiveness of so many topics.

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You know, it used to be there was like

one or two things you didn't talk about.

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and now there's just so many that

are third rails, you know, and,

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and they, it shouldn't be that way.

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Sh we, we should be able to have

informed, collaborative, you know,

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mediated kind of conversations that, that

bring a conversation together towards a

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conclusion with, especially with how much

information and data is at our fingertips.

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I mean, it's really just at our fingertip.

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That wasn't always the

case, but it should.

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That extra information, I think should

help us come to better conclusions,

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not more divergent conclusions.

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JENN: do you think do you think people

get tired of the, how much choice

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there is at our fingertips and just

sort of pick a lane and stay in it?

79

Brian: There.

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There's a whole field of

science around decision fatigue.

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Um, this is, I was chatting with

someone recently about a, a different

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book, um, called Mindless Eating.

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And in it the, um, the, the author sort

of uses this phrase, these moments of

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conscious make decisions and moments

of consciousness, so that in all these

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other moments of not consciousness,

you don't have to think about.

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The decision because we only have

so many decisions we can make a day.

87

Um, and I, and he, his advocacy in,

in this book, um, was, you know,

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principally focused in part on

like health and food consumption.

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Like make a smart decision, like

when you're at the grocery store,

90

buy the things then in your pantry.

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Are going to be good, you know?

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Then you just go and you open up

the refrigerator, you open up the

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pantry, and you eat healthy foods.

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Because in that one moment at the

grocery store, you didn't buy anything

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that you shouldn't be looking at

inside your refrigerator or pantry.

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JENN: conscious decision making.

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I like it.

98

Brian: Yeah.

99

JENN: And that would relate, that would

relate to the environment as well, right?

100

What, what decisions can we make

consciously about how we walk

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through the world that have impact?

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Brian: Yeah.

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Well, and they can be

decisions that you, you know,

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they can be decisions that you

sort of make one time and then

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you just hold to your decision.

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So I used to make a New

Year's resolution for myself.

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Every year I would make a couple

and like a number of years ago,

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I always used to put sugar in my

coffee, you know, as many people do.

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And I don't know, maybe 12, 13 years

ago, I just, one of my resolutions was.

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I will never put sugar in my coffee again.

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And that was just my thing.

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And, but every time I make myself

a cup of coffee, I still have to go

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through that decision matrix a little

bit like the sugar's sitting there.

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If I'm at any place out there in the

world, um, the sugar's sitting there,

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it's not sitting there in my house.

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Oh, and this is how we can do it.

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So if I'm at a, at a coffee shop or at a

restaurant or anything, the sugar's there

118

and I have to decide not to put it in.

119

But at my house, and this actually

goes back to this concept of

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like a moment of consciousness.

121

I don't have a sugar bowl anywhere

near, like I've got sugar for some

122

baking things like back in the pantry,

but there's no sugar out anywhere

123

near where we make coffee and tea.

124

And so sometimes guests are

like, well, where's the sugar?

125

And I was like, I don't have one.

126

I'll bring out the five pound thing and

be like, wait, here's the baking sugar.

127

If you want some, but like there's

none anywhere near the sh the tea and

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coffee making and that decision to

not have a sugar bowl and not have it

129

ready means I don't have to think about

it so much when I make my morning cup

130

of coffee or tea or my evening tea.

131

I don't have to think about it.

132

It's not there for me.

133

And that's that like

decision in one moment.

134

And I, and I, Jen, I

think you're so right.

135

There's all these kind of decisions

that we can make in like big moments

136

of consciousness, decision making.

137

But then we just don't have

to think about anymore.

138

Right.

139

Um, if you, we, there was this great,

um, piece in the Carbon Almanac, uh, one

140

of the podcasts about gas leaf blowers

141

Leekei: Mm.

142

Brian: electric ones.

143

Do you remember that

144

JENN: remember?

145

Yes, I do.

146

Brian: that one.

147

Yeah.

148

JENN: I was part of that

conversation and it was hilarious.

149

Brian: it was pretty funny and, and

I listened to it and, and really

150

learned and thought, and I, I.

151

A gas, you know, I had a gas one

and an electric one, both sitting

152

and, you know, available for use.

153

And I sort of used the gas for

the bigger heftier stuff and

154

the, the electric for the other.

155

And our houses fully powered

by solar were, were a negative

156

impact on the grid annually.

157

And, and so like the electricity

is, Functionally, I've already

158

invested in the panels and it's

free, but I still use the gas one

159

sometimes for just convenience, right?

160

Even though I have to pay for the

gasoline, and put in the oil, you know?

161

But then when I heard that podcast, I

was like, wait, let me just decommission,

162

like let me just stop using this.

163

And so I actually like cleaned

up my gas powered one and

164

put it away pretty formally.

165

And now I still am not sure whether,

whether the right decision is to What

166

to do with it, but I just took it out

of my garage and put it in my basement,

167

cleaned it, empty it, put it away.

168

So now I just always grabbed

the electric one and maybe it

169

takes me a little bit more time.

170

I have to use you a little bit more raking

to help it with its, you know, power.

171

But it's that I made that I,

your podcast was the thing that

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made me go put the gas one.

173

Leekei: Oh, that's wonderful.

174

See

175

Jet

176

Brian: And now I don't,

I don't see it there.

177

And you know, it's in my basement.

178

It's not in my garage, so I

don't, when I go to the garage,

179

I only grab the electric one.

180

As a result of your podcast,

I've put the other one away.

181

Leekei: Oh

182

JENN: Thank

183

Brian: I'm trying to get our

184

JENN: that.

185

Brian: Yeah, of course.

186

Leekei: I think very often we do

things because, um, you know, out

187

of habits or out of convenience.

188

And, and once we realize that this habit

or this thing that is convenient is

189

hurting, uh, this behavior is hurting

the, the environment, the planet, we.

190

we change it.

191

And so I think the, the goal of this

podcast is, and the carbon arm and

192

everything, the work we're doing is

not to, you know, to invent the new

193

solution, but is to make people realize

that some things that they been doing or

194

are thinking of doing are not so good.

195

, but the, it's not like finger pointing

and, and shaming people, but it just,

196

you know, helping them realize that,

oh, ooh, maybe there's an alternative.

197

, yeah.

198

Of doing things.

199

Yeah.

200

JENN: I love the idea of, of habit.

201

Um, there's a book that I, I've read

a few times that I love, uh, called

202

Mini Mini Habits and um, this person

talks about like a micro habit.

203

.

Leekei: mm

204

JENN: and so, you know, if you're

going to do a pushup, do one, and

205

that's your minimum for the day.

206

Well, by the time you get down to do

one, you're of course not gonna do just

207

one or put your runners on and go to

the end of your driveway or down into

208

your lobby depending on where you live.

209

And.

210

and by the time you get down there,

you're probably gonna keep going,

211

but if you don't, you've still

satisfied your goal, which was to

212

put your shoes on and go outside.

213

Um, so micro habits, uh, you know, floss

one tooth, and all you have to do one

214

day, is floss, one tooth, You know?

215

So it's like what are the,

the micro habits that we.

216

Start with if, if doing something

big is too much, um, what are

217

the micro things we can do?

218

And then at least we've

accomplished that one thing.

219

And then, and then you build on that.

220

Right.

221

Brian: Yeah.

222

Is that, does that sound like that

was the book from Steven Geis.

223

JENN: Yeah.

224

I think it

225

Brian: I see.

226

It's on audiobook.

227

I'm gonna go listen to that.

228

I like

229

JENN: Like that

230

idea.

231

Yeah.

232

And I, I love that book because I've done

a number of things that were suggested

233

in that book and it actually works.

234

like putting your workout clothes on.

235

First thing is deader robe or whatever,

, and it's like, well, I did all this work

236

to get dressed into my workout clothes.

237

I might as well work out

238

Brian: I

239

Leekei: Yeah.

240

Brian: as well go do it.

241

What is it's, there's an inertia that

shows up, and I think this comes back

242

to that question of decision making.

243

Decision making is like a moment

where you have to choose a

244

path left or right, up or down.

245

And when you just sort of set yourself,

so there's already inertia going

246

one direction for the other versus

the other, it's more likely that you

247

will move with the, you'll go with

the inertia that you said in motion.

248

JENN: Yeah.

249

So what can we, what decisions can we

make for, uh, that are good for the.

250

Brian: Yeah.

251

JENN: Yeah.

252

Brian: there's so many

253

Leekei: Yeah.

254

,

Brian: turn into a long, there's, I'm, I'm pausing.

255

I'm like, I don't know how to

answer that succinctly at all.

256

JENN: Well,

257

that could have been a

rhetorical question too.

258

Brian: yeah,

259

Leekei: yeah.

260

LYNN: You've been listening to Karbon

sessions, a podcast with carbon

261

conversations for every day, with

everyone from everywhere in the world.

262

We'd love you to join the carbon

sessions so YouTube can share your

263

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264

This is a great way for our community

to learn from your ideas and

265

experiences, connect and take action.

266

If you want to add your voice to

the conversation, go to the carbon.

267

Dot org slash podcast and sign up

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268

This podcast is also part of the

carbon Almanac network for more

269

information, to sign up for the

emails, to join the movement and

270

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Almanac, go to the carbon almanac.org.

271

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272

As together we can change the world.