Shownotes
Navigating the wild world of AI and digital spaces is no joke, especially for the church. Dr. Jeffery D. Skinner dives deep into the importance of embodied authority and the need for trust in our communities as we face these tech-driven challenges. It’s not just about having a fancy title anymore; it’s about being present and relatable. In a world where AI can create convincing imitations of voices and content, knowing your pastor’s voice becomes crucial. Think about it—if a controversial video of your pastor popped up online, would you know if it was real or fake? That's where trust comes in, and that trust is built through authentic relationships. Skinner emphasizes that instead of retreating from the digital battlefield, the church should boldly step into this mission field, engaging with the tools available to foster community and discernment. After all, the gospel’s authenticity is something algorithms can’t replicate, and as church leaders, we need to prepare our communities to navigate this new terrain wisely. So, let’s not just survive; let’s thrive in this digital age by building resilient communities that embody love and support.
Takeaways
The church must respond to digital challenges with clarity and trust.
Embodied authority is crucial in a world where reality can be faked.
Adaptive leadership is necessary for navigating the next decade.
Digital environments shape our perceptions and realities.
Authority now comes from trust and presence, not just titles.
Discipleship includes teaching discernment in a digital age.
The church should not withdraw from digital mission fields.
Building resilient communities is essential for trust.
Technology can isolate, but the church offers relational abundance.
The gospel's authenticity cannot be simulated by algorithms.
Navigating the wild world of AI and digital spaces is no joke, especially for the church. Dr. Jeffery D. Skinner dives deep into the importance of embodied authority and the need for trust in our communities as we face these tech-driven challenges. It’s not just about having a fancy title anymore; it’s about being present and relatable. In a world where AI can create convincing imitations of voices and content, knowing your pastor’s voice becomes crucial. Think about it—if a controversial video of your pastor popped up online, would you know if it was real or fake? That's where trust comes in, and that trust is built through authentic relationships. Skinner emphasizes that instead of retreating from the digital battlefield, the church should boldly step into this mission field, engaging with the tools available to foster community and discernment. After all, the gospel’s authenticity is something algorithms can’t replicate, and as church leaders, we need to prepare our communities to navigate this new terrain wisely. So, let’s not just survive; let’s thrive in this digital age by building resilient communities that embody love and support.
Takeaways:
- In today's world where AI can mimic human voices, embodied authority is essential for the church.
- Trust is the new currency for leadership; it's all about being present and relatable now.
- Digital spaces are not to be feared; they should be seen as mission fields for the church.
- Resilient communities built on authentic relationships can combat the isolation technology often brings.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Missional Church Planting
- Dynamic Church Planting International
- Amazon
- Barnes and Noble
- Canoeing the Mountains
- Todd Bolsinger
- Tim Gaines
- J. Kim
- Andy Crouch
- John Dyer
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcripts
On the next episode of Echoes Through Eternity.
Speaker B:Authority used to come from position credentials.
Speaker B:Now authority flows from trust, from presence, from relational credibility.
Speaker B:People trust the voice they know the pastor who is present.
Speaker B:In a world where AI can mimic voices and generate content, embodied leadership becomes essential.
Speaker B:People must know your voice.
Speaker B:That means not withdrawing.
Speaker B:That means that your pastor's voice needs to be in in as many places as possible so that they will know their voice.
Speaker B:Some advocate total withdrawal, but I think that would be a mistake.
Speaker B:That is not something that Jesus did.
Speaker B:The digital frontier is a mission field.
Speaker B:We enter the mission field on mission with wisdom, discernment and clarity.
Speaker B:If you enjoyed this, please like and subscribe.
Speaker A:Marcus Aurelius said, what we do in life echoes through eternity.
Speaker A:What is your life echoing through eternity?
Speaker A:Welcome to Echoes Through Eternity with Dr. Jeffrey Skinner.
Speaker A:Our mission is to inspire, engage and encourage leaders from across the globe to plant missional churches and be servant leaders.
Speaker A:So join us and hear the stories of servant leaders reverberating lives as God echoes them through eternity.
Speaker A:Brought to you by Missional Church Planting and Leadership Development and Dynamic Church Planting International.
Speaker B:Welcome in to Echoes Through Eternity.
Speaker B:What is God echoing through your voice today?
Speaker B:I AM your host, Dr. Jeffrey D. Skinner.
Speaker B:Imagine this happens in your church.
Speaker B:One afternoon, a video appears on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Twitter.
Speaker B:Or maybe it's just even a direct message sent to people within the congregation.
Speaker B:It looks like your pastor.
Speaker B:It sounds like your pastor.
Speaker B:The voice is clear, the face is convincing.
Speaker B:In the video, the pastor says something highly controversial, designed to create outrage immediately.
Speaker B:It is completely out of character.
Speaker B:It spreads quickly.
Speaker B:But you know your pastor's voice.
Speaker B:You know their tone.
Speaker B:You know their character.
Speaker B:You walk down the hall and ask them directly, is this you?
Speaker B:You verify?
Speaker B:But others do not know that voice.
Speaker B:Maybe as people that are in the fringes of your congregation, those that are just beginning to test the waters, maybe it's the community where you've been working hard to be a presence, a redeeming presence within the community to earn their trust.
Speaker B:Maybe others are just people that online.
Speaker B:They're online and know and watch the church online.
Speaker B:They only know the digital version.
Speaker B:They react.
Speaker B:They share.
Speaker B:They assume it is real.
Speaker B:Because assuming the worst is easier than assuming the best.
Speaker B:Now the question becomes real for every church.
Speaker B:How do you respond?
Speaker B:What policies are in place?
Speaker B:How do you verify the truth?
Speaker B:How do you lead in a moment like that?
Speaker B:If the church withdraws from the digital space, it will not have the tools or.
Speaker B:Or the credibility to respond.
Speaker B:I've entitled today's Episode this is part two of our series on artificial intelligence and preparing the church for the next 10 years.
Speaker B:But I've entitled it When Reality Can Be Faked.
Speaker B:Authority that endures.
Speaker B:This is why embodied authority matters.
Speaker B:Presence alone, presence allows verification.
Speaker B:Relationship allows discernment.
Speaker B:Trust follows clarity.
Speaker B:And trust allows clarity.
Speaker B:We continue this series on AI by preparing the church for a machine driven world, the next decade.
Speaker B:And I don't mean 10 years, I mean now and for the next 10 years.
Speaker B:And truthfully, I'm not sure we have the imagination to really prepare for the next 10 years.
Speaker B:But we can plan for it.
Speaker B:And as good church planters, we know regardless of the plan, there's always room for adaptation.
Speaker B:In fact, if you want a great read on adaptive leadership, Canoeing the Mountains by Todd Bolsinger is a great book by Todd Bolsinger.
Speaker B:You can find it on Amazon or Barnes and Noble or wherever.
Speaker B:But you know, if there's ever a time that demands adaptive leadership is now.
Speaker B:It is today.
Speaker B:It is the next 10 years.
Speaker B:The church is stepping into a new kind of world, not just digital curated.
Speaker B:I talked about this last week.
Speaker B:Algorithms shape what people see.
Speaker B:Artificial intelligence now imitates what people hear and trust.
Speaker B:Voice, video, presence, reality itself can be simulated.
Speaker B:The question is not whether this affects the church, it already has.
Speaker B:The question is who will form people inside this world.
Speaker B:Again, the same question we asked last week, because that is the overwhelming question, the primary question that we have to ask as church leaders today, because that is our primary mission.
Speaker B:It is to form our people and help them navigate this world.
Speaker B:Jesus never advocated for withdrawing from the world.
Speaker B:In fact, he did just the opposite.
Speaker B:He walked into the hostile places and he touched the unclean and he made the unclean clean.
Speaker B:He walked with the people that other people wouldn't walk with.
Speaker B:When they said that your reputation will be tarnished, Jesus turned that on his head and said, I will allow my reputation to redeem their reputation because my character is beyond reproach.
Speaker B:And so our question, that, that becomes the overwhelming question that we have as we navigate.
Speaker B:This is how do we do that faithfully?
Speaker B:How do we form people inside a machine driven world?
Speaker B:Most people now live inside algorithmic environments.
Speaker B:Our pastor talked about this, or one of our pastors talked about this Sunday morning.
Speaker B:Tim Gaines.
Speaker B:What they watch like and click becomes what they see next.
Speaker B:The reality narrows.
Speaker B:Artificial intelligence takes this further.
Speaker B:It can generate faces, scenes and voices, moments that never happen.
Speaker B:It creates from thin air.
Speaker B:We are moving from echo chambers to curated realities, a kind of digital holodeck.
Speaker B:A matrix like environment.
Speaker B:A world that feels real but is shaped by unseen systems.
Speaker B:Authority in the next decade will not come from titles.
Speaker B:It will come from proximity.
Speaker B:And again, we talked about this last time, from presence, from people who know your voice.
Speaker B:Some voices call the church withdrawal.
Speaker B:Paul Kingsnorth is one of them.
Speaker B:His work traces what he calls the machine from the industrial age to AI.
Speaker B:He argues that technological systems reshape what it means to be human.
Speaker B:Not just tools, a regime.
Speaker B:In fact, the Jewish theologian, I can't remember his name off the top of my head, but he argues that the means and the medium affect the message.
Speaker B:And so that's essentially what Kingsnorth is saying here, is that.
Speaker B:That we can't trust AI even for redemptive purposes, because the medium affects the message.
Speaker B:He warns that these systems promise power while hollowing out place, body and soul.
Speaker B:That they reshape us in their image, that our souls are at stake.
Speaker B:His warning does carry weight.
Speaker B:We need voices like that.
Speaker B:We need to have these conversations within the church.
Speaker B:Do we withdraw?
Speaker B:Is that the thing that we should do?
Speaker B:I personally don't feel like we can afford to do that.
Speaker B:I told you last week, I don't believe in ceding ground to the enemy.
Speaker B:But what he's arguing, I think, is for us to become watchmen on the wall.
Speaker B:But the church has never survived by retreating from empire.
Speaker B:We formed disciples in Babylon, not outside of it.
Speaker B:Other thinkers call the church to engage wisely.
Speaker B:J. Kim argues that digital tools prioritize speed and scale, but often trade away depth.
Speaker B:Worship becomes content, community becomes reaction.
Speaker B:Scripture becomes snippets.
Speaker B:His answer is embodied practice, shared tables, slow reading, real presence.
Speaker B:Andy Crouch points to the bigger hunger, the deeper hunger we are made for, person to person.
Speaker B:Knowing technology promises connection, but more often delivers isolation.
Speaker B:The church counters with relational abundance rooted in Christ.
Speaker B:John Dyer reminds us that technology is never neutral.
Speaker B:Every tool shapes us before we shape it.
Speaker B:Discipleship now includes teaching people what their devices are forming in them.
Speaker B:Authority used to come from position, credentials, platforms.
Speaker B:Now authority flows from trust, from presence, from relational credibility.
Speaker B:People trust the voice they know the leader who shows up, the pastor who is present.
Speaker B:In a world where AI can mimic voices and generate content, embodied leadership becomes essential.
Speaker B:People must know your voice.
Speaker B:That means not withdrawing.
Speaker B:That means that your pastor's voice needs to be in as many places as possible so that they will know their voice, not just content, but their life.
Speaker B:Some advocate total withdrawal.
Speaker B:And we talked about Kingston doing that.
Speaker B:But I think that would be a mistake.
Speaker B:That is not something that Jesus did.
Speaker B:The digital frontier is a mission field.
Speaker B:We enter with mission.
Speaker B:We enter the mission field on mission with wisdom, discernment and clarity.
Speaker B:And I want to talk about next week how we teach this discernment.
Speaker B:I wanted to kind of come back and reiterate some of the things I did last week, but also to focus primarily on authority this week and what that authority looks like in a digital space.
Speaker B:We don't surrender that space.
Speaker B:We step into it as missionaries, inviting people out of curated realities into sacred and liminal space.
Speaker B:A liminal space is what the Gaelics used to call thin spaces, and they are spaces.
Speaker B:I talk about this in my book, Reachable Seven Keys to Loving, Leading and Mentoring the Church the Next Generation.
Speaker B:Again, it'd be found on Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other places.
Speaker B:A liminal space is a thin space between heaven and earth.
Speaker B:They believe.
Speaker B:The Gaelics believe that, and even the Hebrew people.
Speaker B:We talk about high, high places because the gods were thought to be in the heavens, in the sky.
Speaker B:They would climb the highest mountains and that's where they'd build their temples.
Speaker B:Not just the Hebrews, but even the Babylons, Babylonians, even the, the.
Speaker B:The other cultures in that area, the other nations in that area, they would, they would build their gods on high mountains because that was the closest space to their gods.
Speaker B:So in the Christian version, a laminal space is just that, that sacred space where God feels most present to us.
Speaker B:And we know that God is everywhere.
Speaker B:We now know that God is not just in the high places, but God is also in the low places.
Speaker B:So we're inviting people out of those curated realities and into these liminal places, spaces where God presence is especially known.
Speaker B:And there the pastor's voice is known, the shepherd's voice is known.
Speaker B:I'm reminded the scripture said my sheep will know my voice.
Speaker B:And the pastor's listening to God's voice and Jesus's voice.
Speaker B:And we're hoping that we're teaching our people to listen for that as well.
Speaker B:Real conversation.
Speaker B:It's real community, real presence.
Speaker B:One of the things that, that Dr. Tim Gaines talked about Sunday morning, he said he read conversations with pastors between pastors on Facebook, saying mean things to each other, calling them trolls, said, I just have to wonder, would they actually call each other a troll if they were face to face?
Speaker B:And I think the answer is no.
Speaker B:But it's easier when, when we are distant from someone to dehumanize them.
Speaker B:The elder early church used letters that were circulated widely.
Speaker B:But Paul still wrote, I long to see you because formation happens face to face.
Speaker B:We have to form discernment.
Speaker B:And again, we'll talk about what this discernment looks like in our next episode.
Speaker B:I want to give you concrete, not just theoretical, not just a lab, but real life of how we're forming discernment in person.
Speaker B:And we can use online tools to help teach and things like that, but that's going to require us to create tools that are excluding where we can control our own content, where those voices from the outside are not contaminated.
Speaker B:And again, I'm not saying that we completely withdraw from the public places that are digital mission fields, but I am saying that we have to have our own spaces as well, where we curate the voices, where our voices are curated and our realities are curated not for deceit, but for teaching.
Speaker B:A kingdom curation, so to speak.
Speaker B:And that's where we can utilize those tools.
Speaker B:But we have to pray before sharing, cultivate presence, shared meals, embodied worship, face to face discipleship.
Speaker B:Build resilient communities.
Speaker B:Resilience is another area that we as leaders must begin to to build our skill set.
Speaker B:Resilience.
Speaker B:Todd Bolsinger talks about resilience as well.
Speaker B:But trust will be the currency of the next decade.
Speaker B:And trust.
Speaker B:I mean, you can lose trust.
Speaker B:You can spend decades earning trust and lose trust overnight through a dumb decision in a digital universe that is done in microseconds.
Speaker B:We lose trust in a microsecond, and it will not take decades to rebuild it.
Speaker B:Presence will be the proof of authority.
Speaker B:It will be relationship that gives us the currency to earn their trust, to pay for that trust.
Speaker B:The machine can simulate almost anything, but it cannot simulate a life known in community.
Speaker B:It cannot simulate character formed in Christ.
Speaker B:It cannot simulate embodied love.
Speaker B:The gospel invites people into the real, the broken, embodied and redeemed.
Speaker B:That is authority no algorithm can fake.
Speaker B:Next week we'll talk about discernment.
Speaker B:We'll talk about concrete teachings on discernment and what that looks like for us in a digital age.
Speaker B:In the meantime, I advise you to please like and subscribe this.
Speaker B:If you've enjoyed it, subscribe to it.
Speaker B:Subscribe to it.
Speaker B:Comment I love the comments that you make on Facebook and Apple podcasts and the other platforms out there.
Speaker B:It helps to create more awareness of the episode.
Speaker B:And if you know a church leader, please share this with them.
Speaker B:And maybe I'll even have them reach out to me.
Speaker B:If they have.
Speaker B:If they feel like they have a voice that could contribute some type of insight to this conversation, I'd love to have them.
Speaker B:I've invited my pastor, Dr. Shawna Gaines and her husband Tim to be only podcast.
Speaker B:I've reached out to another pastoral voice that is a more nation wine voice.
Speaker B:I've invited them on the show and so I'm really looking forward to this entire series.
Speaker B:I told you last week, four episodes is actually going to be at least five and maybe six.
Speaker B:And so anyway, until next time I ask you, what is God echoing through your life today?
Speaker B:If you enjoyed this, please like and subscribe.
