Today on The Rough Draft, we're joined by Mark Watters, a six-time Emmy Award-winning composer and conductor renowned for his work in film, television, video games, global tours such as Star Wars in Concert, and major events like the Olympics. Mark's career spans iconic Disney classics and collaborations with artists like John Legend, Mary Jo Blige, and Beyoncé. In addition, Mark serves as the Associate Professor of Contemporary Media & Film Composition and Director of the Beal Institute for Film Music and Contemporary Media at the prestigious Eastman University in New York. Join us today as we discuss his creative process, how to embrace technology while guarding authenticity, and the deeply emotional resonance of music across all content mediums. 

Guest Bio

Mark Watters is a six-time Emmy Award winning composer and conductor whose diverse career spans over 400 television episodes, feature films, DVDs, video games, concert works and music for the theater. 

He holds the distinct honor of having served as music director and featured composer for two Olympics. First, in 1996 for the Centennial Olympic Games in Atlanta and again in 2002 for the Salt Lake City Winter Olympics. For the ’96 games, Mark composed the Emmy nominated song, "Faster, Higher, Stronger." Performed by opera legend, Jessye Norman and featuring lyrics by Grammy-nominated lyricist, Lorraine Feather, the song was the triumphant finale to the Opening Ceremonies. He has served as guest conductor for such orchestras as The Los Angeles Philharmonic, The Tokyo Philharmonic, The London Symphony, The Los Angeles Chamber Orchestra, The Detroit Symphony, The New York City Pops, The Baltimore Symphony and The Atlanta Symphony. In 2002, film score legend John Williams asked Mark to co-conduct the 74th Academy Awards. He has worked with such artists as Beyonce, Sting, Carrie Underwood, John Legend, Mary J. Blige, Trisha Yearwood, Yo Yo Ma and Broadway star, Brian Stokes Mitchell.

In addition to his composing and conducting career, Mark is an associate professor at the famed Eastman School of Music where he heads the Media Composition curriculum and is the director of the Beal Institute for Film Music and Contemporary Media.

Additional Resources

• markwatters.com
• esm.rochester.edu/directory/watters-mark/

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- And yet we react to it,

and I hope they never

figure out that mystery.

- It was watched by an

estimated 3.5 billion viewers.

- It's like their child suddenly said mama

for the first time.

- And then all of a

sudden you find yourself

touring the world.

- And you play it for them,

and they go, "This is not working."

And so there I was

sitting with the two guys

that created Cirque du Soleil,

and world-renowned choreographers,

and designers, and whatnot,

and there I am,

and you can't put that

genie back in the bottle.

- I'm Kendell Kelton,

and today I'm your host

on "The Rough Draft."

In this episode, I sit

down with Mark Watters,

a six-time Emmy award-winning

composer and conductor,

renowned for his work in

film, television, video games,

global tours such as

"Star Wars" and "Concert,"

and major events like the Olympics.

Mark's career spans iconic Disney classics

and collaborations with

artists like John Legend,

Mary J. Blige, and Beyonce.

In addition, Mark serves

as an academic leader

at the prestigious Eastman

University in New York.

Join us today as we discuss

his creative process,

how to embrace technology

while guarding authenticity,

and the deeply emotional

resonance of music

across all content mediums.

All right, here's my

conversation with Mark Watters.

(upbeat music)

I have a four-year-old son,

and I've begun noticing

just how deeply he responds

to music and musical cues.

And it's pretty remarkable to witness

just how music is already shaping

his little deep emotional connection,

even at such a young age.

And an example of this

was we recently took him

to Disney World,

and we went to see the

live action performance

of "Indiana Jones," which in retrospect

may have been a poor parenting decision

because there was some

scary moments there.

But it was really neat because, you know,

that famous "The Raiders March,"

that famous score that,

♪ Dun-da-dun-dun, dun-da-dun ♪

That, as soon as that came on,

his entire being just lit up with wonder,

and he was so excited.

And I actually have a

recording of it on my phone,

and watching him and then

watching everybody else

in the audience, adults,

people my age, older,

folks who have seen it a dozen times,

everyone is still feeling the same thing.

Like, the second that sound comes on,

you can just feel it in

your soul, that excitement.

And then a few scenes later is

the big boulder coming down,

and that nervous anxiety,

you hear the trumpets

and the horns flare up,

and looking at Wyatt, he's just,

he's so nervous what's

gonna happen to Indy.

- Oh my God.

Hey, Chris are you okay?

Get up, you'll be okay, quick!

- And again, same thing,

everyone around, myself included,

has that kind of like

nervous excitement energy,

even though, spoiler alert,

we know what's gonna happen.

We know he's gonna make

it at the last minute.

But it was so neat to

re-kind of witness that

for the first time through his eyes,

but then also to realize that

impact of sound and music

in those moments.

And so, as somebody who has spent a career

kind of pulling that

tether between emotion

and music and trying to

find those special moments,

I'd love to hear a

little bit more from you

on your approach to finding

kind of that connection,

because again, like music

can change things in a second

emotionally for folks.

So I'd love to hear kind of your take.

- Well, again, I think I'm

gonna just be repeating

some of the things that you just said.

Music is incredibly important

to conveying a story,

because film is a two-dimensional entity.

And so by adding music,

it is built into us

that we respond to this.

And I will say it is a mystery

to me why we do respond.

What is it?

I mean, what is music?

It's just a vibration.

It's different pitches vibrating,

and yet we react to it.

And I hope they never

figure out that mystery.

I hope it always remains this unknown,

because it always should

be a creative journey

to find those right vibrations

that make that happen.

So that when you hear that wonderful theme

from Indiana Jones that

John Williams wrote,

it fits that character and

that scene and that moment.

And it brings back,

this is why film music

concerts are so popular,

because we can hear that music

and it takes us back to that

experience of seeing the film.

And now we've taken it

even to the next level,

because now orchestras

are performing the score

live to picture with the movie playing,

but the orchestra is

playing the music live.

And so we're getting

that visceral sensation

of the music being performed

right there in front of us,

not recorded and mixed in,

but right there in front of us.

And it's so exciting.

And I just think it's

a wonderful advancement

in what we've done.

I mean, I was at such

an impressionable age

when John Williams became a star with,

I graduated from college the summer

that "Star Wars" came out.

And that was followed by "E.T."

and the other "Star Wars"

films and "Close Encounters"

and "Indiana Jones."

And I fell in love with his music

and that's what inspired

me to pursue this,

right then and there.

I mean, and I had the

pleasure of telling John this,

"You're the reason I'm doing this."

And he was very sweet about

it and he was very touched.

- Instances where you had

that deep emotional connection

with music that influenced you?

I mean, you obviously just said it

with John Williams and "Star Wars"

and then all of a sudden you find yourself

touring the world.

Are there specific moments

and specific pieces of music

that you would say like still to this day

has that emotional resonance?

- The first time I can

remember being moved

by the music in a movie, I

was 14, I think, 13 or 14

when the 1968 production of

"Romeo and Juliet" came out,

directed by Franco Zeffirelli,

stars Olivia Hussey and Leonard Whiting.

It's a gorgeous movie and

the score is by Nino Rota,

who was the Italian composer

who wrote the score to "The Godfather."

Very famous Italian film composer.

And the melodies and the settings,

just like what you were

saying with "Indiana Jones,"

it just, it brought the

movie to life for me.

And I remember reacting to the music.

I mean, I was playing guitar at the time

and I was envisioning being a

rock and roll guitar player,

but this music was just so

gorgeous and so fit the movie.

And I had no idea that

I would ever pursue this

as a career that was way beyond,

even when I was in college

and studying music,

I was a saxophone major

and I was studying jazz

and classical music.

I didn't have any inkling at all

that I would pursue film composing

and TV composing as a profession.

That happened subsequently

after going to a few more

John Williams concerts

and movies and whatnot.

But, and it, we don't

have to get into this,

but I mean, I took a course,

a beginner course in film

scoring, just purely as a lark.

I didn't think that

anything would come from it.

I could have easily

taken a watercolor course

or a horticulture course or something.

It was at the UCLA extension,

which was a school of

continuing education.

And I'm so grateful that I took it.

It was this introduction to film scoring

and it was taught by a wonderful man

who allowed me to write a piece of music

for a piece of an episode

of "Hawaii Five-O."

And it just changed my life.

'Cause I had that moment of where music

and visual come together and become one.

And it makes the visual just come to life

in a way that it wouldn't

if you just sat there.

I mean, I love going into

schools and I did this,

you know, I've done this several times

where I've played scenes from TV shows

and when it's with young

kids, it's usually a cartoon

and I play it without music.

And it's amazing how six-year-olds

will look at it like,

"Wow, it's just not the same."

And then I'll play the same

scene again with the music.

And they're like, "Oh my God, that's it."

And then I'll play it

with the wrong music.

I'll play it with music

that's totally different

than what it's supposed to be.

And they totally react to it.

I mean, it is built into us as our DNA

that we react to this.

And it's, you know, just a wonderful thing

that we've only discovered this, you know,

as far as film is concerned, you know,

in the last hundred years.

- Have you ever come

across that in your career

where perhaps the music just didn't work,

that you were, you know-

- Are you talking about my

music or somebody else's music?

- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yours or both.

- Well, there's two answers to that.

I tell my students here at

the Eastman School of Music

that I love when I see a

score that's not working.

I just love it.

- Oh, really?

- 'Cause it's so, it's encouraging to me.

And I like-

- How so?

- Well, because it just

goes to show that, you know,

there are people out there doing this

that need more training.

And usually it's the filmmaker.

It's not necessarily the composer.

I'm always amazed when film

schools do not teach music

and not making music, but

how do you tell a composer

what it is that you should be telling them

to get the score that you want?

The language that you said,

you don't have to talk music language,

but you need to talk

storytelling language.

And then the other thing is that I,

there's never just one

way to score something.

There's always an interpretation.

And I've had, you know, we've all had,

every person that's done

this for any length of time

has had instances where

you write something

and you're just absolutely certain

it's gonna just blow them away.

And you bring it in and

you play it for them

and they go, this is not working.

And then it's like, whoa.

And this gets into, you know,

these are lessons that every

composer has dealt with

since, you know, the '20s

when composers first started

putting music to film.

How do you handle that?

'Cause you can't get insulted.

You can't get personal,

like, how dare you do that?

I wasted all this time.

And now you're telling

me it's not working.

You can't do that.

I often use the analogy of when,

if you had somebody come

and redesign your kitchen

and you tell them exactly

what it is you want

and they do it and they

said, no, that's not working.

Can you do it again?

And you don't pay them anymore

and you don't give them any more time

but they've got to redo the kitchen.

That doesn't happen.

But in film music, that

is the way it goes.

I mean, I've literally had cues

that I've rewritten seven or eight times

because it just wasn't working for them.

And it's very encouraging then

when I hear other composers

and composers far more successful

than me talk about this.

And John Williams, I've heard

John Williams talk about this.

I mean, to be a film composer,

to be a media composer,

whether it be video games

or television or film,

you have to really love collaborating.

I tell my students, look,

if you wanna write

whatever you wanna write,

be a concert composer, be

a rock and roll songwriter.

But if you wanna be a media composer,

you have to love the idea of

collaborating with somebody

where somebody is giving you a direction

and you then complete it.

- Well, so let's talk a little bit then

about your creative process,

because I mean, as you

were just explaining,

like you can put so much time

and effort into something

for it to never ever come to fruition.

In those instances, how do

you kind of move through them?

Like, what are the things

you try to lean into

or learn from?

How do you ensure that

it doesn't, you know,

take too much of a hit against your ego?

So like, especially for

people coming into this field,

which is incredibly

complicated and competitive,

how do you keep kind of pushing through?

- I suppose the good outweighs the bad.

You know, the thrill of writing something

and when you play it for the director

and suddenly they're, you know,

their efforts now have been

completed and fulfilled

because music really completes

the storytelling process

because it comes at the end,

it's one of the last things

that's added to the film

and they've been looking

at it for, you know,

weeks and months and whatever without it,

maybe they have a temp score,

but you know, when the real

score finally is put to it

and it, you know, it's like their child

suddenly said mama for the first time.

It's just like, oh my gosh,

thank you so much for doing that.

That is such a fulfilling step

because I love collaborating, I really do.

- Let's actually talk about that a bit

because I don't think

people quite understand

what happens behind the scenes

and when somebody like yourself

is brought into a project.

And so can you walk through

kind of that process

of when you are approached and

typically kind of that rhythm

that you experienced, maybe we'll use film

or if there's, you

know, something specific

that you think is a little

bit more interesting

like video gaming.

- Well, it's slightly different,

but I mean, usually because music is

in the post-production phase of it,

editing and the ADR, the

sound and all that is done,

you know, after the piece has been filmed.

The lesser talented filmmakers

don't think about music until then.

The talented filmmakers

are thinking about it

when the script is being written.

They will write scenes knowing that music

is going to do this.

I mean, one of my favorite scenes

and it's a movie that

I'm sure you've seen,

the ending of "The Good

and the Bad and the Ugly"

when they're standing, the

three of them in that cemetery

and they're just staring each other down

and it goes on forever and ever and ever.

And the music is building and building.

Imagine what that scene would

look like with no music.

And that's what the filmmaker

and the actors were seeing.

The filmmaker, Sergio Leone,

was so brilliant with music

that he knew that his

composer, Ennio Morricone,

would fill that up and just

fill the emotion of the scene.

That's great filmmaking when

the filmmaker knows how music,

you know, Steven Spielberg

and John Williams,

he just knows they'll film this scene

knowing that music is

going to just take it

to another level.

You know, I hear stories of filmmakers

bringing composers to the set

and having them walk around the set

and absorb, you know, because

it is a creative process

and you need to get those wheels going.

And so many times, you

know, I've been, you know,

particularly if it's a

score that is being replaced

and that happens more

often than you would think,

this composer that's brought

in to replace the score,

the thrown out score has

very little time to do it.

And so they've got to suddenly

come up with a creative plan

you know, what is gonna

be the DNA of the score?

And then, you know, forget

about what notes to choose

and what instruments

are going to play them.

What kind of music do we wanna do?

And if I can make a break, hang on,

I'm gonna pull a book out

just to give you an example.

- Okay. (laughs)

- I love this book.

- What is it?

"Horn Music Rejected Film Scores," ooh.

- Look how thick this book is. (laughs)

- I like it, I like it.

- It's all stories of scores

and scores that are famous

movies, big movies that,

you know, this big time composer wrote it

and it didn't work and they

brought somebody else in.

And it is-

- But that's so funny

'cause everyone thinks

that if you're like Hans

Zimmer or John Williams,

you're gonna succeed every single time.

- Yeah.

- And that's not true.

- No, it's not.

Every major composer with the

exception of John Williams

has had a score thrown out.

In fact, the saying is you

haven't made it to the big time

until you've had a score thrown out.

- I love that.

- Yeah.

- I love that.

Have you had a score thrown out?

- No, I've not had a

whole score thrown out,

but I have had a couple of

cues that when I saw the film

or watched the TV show and

suddenly there was no music there

and I go, "What happened?"

They go, "Yeah, we didn't

really like that cue."

Oh, okay.

And a lot of times a music

editor can doctor something

together and put something in.

And that happens all the time.

- So I wanna talk about what I know

when we were chatting

pre-recording about something

that was really, really special for you,

a collaboration and an effort

that you are very proud of.

And that's the Summer '96 Olympics,

which you worked on in addition

to the Winter '02 Olympics.

And a fun fact that I was

reading about the '96 Olympics,

it was watched by an estimated,

the opening ceremony in particular,

it was watched by an estimated

3.5 billion viewers worldwide.

And that's in 1996.

And that was the most watched TV event

only until two years ago when

Queen Elizabeth had passed.

And so that more tuned in for her funeral.

But to hold that for so long

and to be a part of a moment

like that, I'd like us to spend some time

just talking about how

that opportunity came about

for you in particular,

and anything unique about the process

you went through for that.

- Well, I got recommended to the producer,

a man named Don Mischer,

who was producing the opening

and closing ceremonies

by the man who was the administrative head

of the Atlanta Symphony,

which was going to be the

host symphony for the show.

And this was over a year before the games.

And Don happened to be at

a, I think a reception,

and the man named Mitch

Gershenfeld was talking to him.

And Don got to talking about the music

and how the symphony

would be a part of it.

And Don mentioned to him, he said,

"We're gonna need a

different music director

than I've normally used in the past,

because we're gonna need,

there's a lot of storytelling

in the opening ceremonies.

We're going to be telling

history and stories and whatnot.

And I need to get a different,

I think I'm gonna need to get

a different music director."

'Cause he had used a particular person

for many of his projects.

And Mitch had conducted a

production of "Babes in Toyland"

that I had redone all

the arrangements for.

I didn't compose anything.

This is Victor Herbert's famous operetta.

But they had wanted to give it a facelift

and a modernization.

And I put in a lot of storytelling in it

that was part of the story.

And he was very impressed with that.

So he told Don about it.

So I got asked to travel to,

I get this call out of nowhere.

I'd never even heard of him.

And I get this call out of

nowhere to travel to Atlanta

one year before the opening ceremonies.

And they only wanted me

there to sit around the table

with all the other creative

heads and offer ideas.

That was it.

Just if something comes into

your head, just tell them.

And so there I was

sitting with the two guys

that created Cirque du Soleil

and world-renowned

choreographers and designers

and whatnot.

And there I am, you know.

And, you know, 'cause I don't

know how to keep my mouth shut.

I started throwing out ideas.

How about this?

How about this?

You know, and let's do that.

And I had a keyboard with me.

And in my hotel room, I

came up with this neat chord

that if you took the five Olympic rings

and turn them on their side

and put it on a music staff,

it creates a chord.

And I played this chord

and they were like, wow,

this is so cool.

So-

- How did you come up

with that idea?

- I don't know, you know.

It just kind of popped me like,

hmm, these look like music notes.

How about I turn it on my side.

And it was.

(light piano music)

That's the chord.

And I get a call a week later.

You know, I mean, I came home.

I thought, boy, that was fun.

What a great opportunity.

I got to meet all these

people and I can, you know,

and they'll be fun to see the show.

And I get a call a week later and said,

we'd like you to be the

co-music director of the show.

And I was like, pinch me.

- That's amazing.

- I must be dreaming.

So the gentleman that was going to be

the co-music director,

he got really busy with something else.

I don't know how you get so busy

that you walk away from the Olympics,

but he completed all the

arranging that he was gonna do

and he went on to something else.

So when it came time to actually recording

and doing the show,

I was the sole music director on that

and then the closing ceremonies.

I mean, there was a very important piece

in the opening ceremonies.

It was called the run through time.

(dramatic music)

It's a very important piece

from the opening ceremonies

where they were gonna have

runners coming out with flags

from each city that had hosted the games

because the Atlanta Olympics

was the 100th anniversary

of the modern Olympic Games.

So it was called the Centennial Games.

And my music was supposed to

capture the feeling of running

and then build and build so that it would,

when it finally got to 1996, Atlanta,

and the crowd would just go crazy

and there'd be this big moment.

And the timing that I had to go with,

I mean, was Don standing on

a track recording his voice

saying when each city would come in

and there was a rhythm to it.

And then I went running and got,

okay, what kind of

music goes with running?

Okay, and I came up with that.

And I managed to put that chord in

that I was mentioning,

the Olympic ring chord.

That's in that piece.

And it worked so well that we

ended up using a version of it

in the closing ceremonies.

But it was a great

process of collaboration

but it all came about.

I'm at these meetings, right?

Where I'm just there as an advisor

and I'm standing at

the craft service table

getting a cup of coffee and Don walks by.

And I just said, gosh, Don,

that explanation about that segment

where the run through time,

boy, that is gonna be an

amazing, amazing segment.

He goes, why don't you

write the music for it?

And then he just walked away.

And I was like, really?

- Sure, why not?

Sure.

- Okay.

- Let me get on that right away.

- But he, I mean, bless his heart.

He saw something in me that allowed me

to really grow and develop.

- That's amazing.

Well, so I wanna transition into talking

about just the changes

that your industry has had

over the last several decades

or years, months even.

Technology has been a huge

topic within your industry,

within the creative industry overall,

in terms of how do you guard

your creative authenticity

while embracing things like AI?

So I would love to hear your take

on the things that you have witnessed

and how maybe you

approach new technologies

and the impact it might have

on your creative endeavors.

- Well, when I first started,

it was before computers entered into it.

It was all pencil and paper,

and you create it on paper,

and then you had to know well enough

that it would sound proper

when you brought an

orchestra in to play it.

It was this moment of truth

when the orchestra played

it for the first time.

Since then, we have literally

a music technology language,

MIDI, Musical Instrument

Digital Implementation,

has been created,

and it allows us to be able to

input things into a computer

and sculpt it and change it

and hear what it's going to sound like.

And it's been an amazingly wonderful tool,

but it requires a composer

to completely change.

I don't use a pencil and paper anymore.

I compose directly into the computer.

And that was a huge step for

me to be able to do that.

'Cause I'm not a great pianist.

I'm far from it.

I would never play in public,

and I think my little rendition-

- I have a hard time believing that,

considering you have the

piano right next to you.

- I would not have, literally,

there's not a day goes by

I don't wish I played piano better,

but it's required if you're

going to be in the business now

in order to put information

into the computer.

And it's a great thing

because it not only allows me to hear it

as I'm sculpting it and changing it,

and I can change a tempo,

I can change a note,

I can change it from the

melody being in this instrument

to another instrument.

And the digital samples have

become very sophisticated

and we can really do

wonderful things with it.

But it also allows me then

to play it for the filmmaker

or the director or whoever,

and then they can make a comment about it.

So it is an important process,

part of the process,

to be able to not only

know this language enough

to be able to compose it,

but you have to be able to

create very sophisticated,

real sounding demos for the filmmaker

to be able to respond to it.

And that has been very, very

useful for them, as well as us,

that we've been able to bring

them into the creative process.

But I knew a lot of composers

that were starting when I started,

composers that were in that

first class that I took

that wanted to pursue it.

And they just could not make that leap

over that chasm into the next language.

And they're not working now.

They're not doing it.

And it is constantly changing.

It is the most, I think, the

most difficult part of it.

And what I tell my students,

and anything I tell my

students, I'm telling myself,

find a process, find the

tools that work for you.

And don't feel like you

have to reinvent yourself

every six months because

some new bit of software

just came out.

Find what works for you and add to it.

I mean, you don't wanna become

a hermit and not change.

But the basic composing tools that we use,

you should find one that works for you.

And barring some, the program

doesn't exist anymore,

which happens occasionally,

or something just so new

and wonderful comes out

that it changes everything.

Elastic is the word I use

a lot with my students.

You have to remain elastic so that you,

if something comes along,

you are able to change.

Now, if you're a John Williams,

which there's only one,

but if you are a John

Williams caliber talent,

then you can do whatever you wanna do.

John still writes with a pencil and paper

and at his piano and his drafting table.

And he writes exactly the same way he did

in the late '50s when he first started.

Well, he can do that

because he's John Williams.

But the rest of us, we have to,

if other composers are presenting demos

that they produce in their studio,

well, then you better

be able to do it too,

or you're not going to work.

- Right.

When it was really interesting,

I was reading this article just expressing

how music producers, how they're evolving

with AI in particular.

And it's a great productivity tool.

They can use it to correct vocal pitches.

The Beatles actually a year or two ago

used AI to isolate John

And they wouldn't be able to

do that without those tools.

But at the same time,

there's this delicate balance

you're always kind of dancing on.

That's great, but how do you remain true

and authentic to the human creation piece

and pulling that human emotion?

'Cause AI can't do that yet.

And I don't think it can for a while.

But how do you strike that balance

of just continuing to remind your students

or remind yourself of

how do you remain human

and thus very visceral

experience of creating music?

- Well, the first answer I'm gonna say

is that I think we haven't seen enough yet

to make a definitive answer to that.

I think the world is waiting.

I think literally in the

next year or two or three,

in terms of what I do, film

music, media composition,

I think things are gonna really change

'cause there's some people

working on some software

that is going to bust this wide open.

And that part of- - What software?

- Well, software that you

could literally program

in different styles of

composing and then just tell it,

I want an action cue.

I want it this fast.

I want it on a level 6.7 as

far as how dangerous it sounds.

Boom, there it is.

And while that may be

great for a filmmaker

or a low budget producer

or something that,

wow, I can get a score by

just typing in some numbers,

it takes away the creative process.

And it's like buying a dress off the rack

or having a dress designed just for you,

that only you have it.

So it has, every time

humanity has made giant leaps,

the next technological leap,

there's always been some negative

that comes along with it.

What I worry about with

this type of technology

is it's not gonna

replace the John Williams

or the Hans Zimmers, it won't.

Because those films and

that level of production

is always gonna want that

collaborative exchange

between the composer.

Where I fear that it's

going to take away from

is the low budget stuff

that frankly the audience

isn't really caring about.

That's the work that young

composers need and would get.

And if you take that level away,

the effect is gonna be there.

There is definitely going

to be a ripple from that.

But that's what I worry about

because it's just human nature.

If I can get something for

a lot less, a lot quicker,

they're gonna get it.

And you can't put that

genie back in the bottle.

- Well, and so I guess to that note,

as you're having, you're seeing,

I'm assuming it's April now,

you have another

graduating class coming up.

I mean, what are the things

that you're telling them

to keep in mind as they kind of,

maybe they're heading out to

LA, maybe they're not, but.

- I've got five that are graduating

and all five of them wanna go to LA.

I tell them to be prepared.

You know, don't expect

to be getting lucrative,

you know, A-list work right away.

And I said, mainly because

you're probably not ready for it yet.

I mean, there's only so much

I can teach you in two years.

You're gonna go through

this apprentice period

and hopefully they will

find an opportunity

to be an assistant or an

apprentice to somebody.

And if they don't, then

at least find composers

that will allow them to come to sessions,

that will allow them to

come over to their studio

and watch them work and

talk with the assistants

that they do have.

I talk about, you know,

you have to be pleasant to work with.

You have to have a personality

that makes people feel

comfortable with you.

I'll present scenarios like, okay,

what would happen if this happened to you?

How would you deal with that?

Another important part

of my curriculum here is

we don't have a film school here

at the Eastman School of Music,

but there's a school nearby,

the Rochester Institute of Technology

has a great film school and

a great animation school

and video game developing

school, world renowned.

And we have a great relationship with them

and my students score their student films.

And so now they're getting the experience

of working with a director

that may not know how to

explain what it is they want,

or, you know, they don't like

something that they wrote

and they can't tell you what to do better,

but they just want you to

do something different.

But the, you know, dealing with adversity

is what I first talked to them about.

And being the type of person

that people want to trust you with that,

the way Don Mischer trusted

me with, you know, so much.

- Yeah, well, thank you.

I appreciate your time today.

- It has been a lot of

fun sharing this with you.

Thank you very much for asking.

- Well, that's it for today's

episode of "The Rough Draft."

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