Kathleen Lucente

Bio

As the founder and CEO of Red Fan Communications, Kathleen partners with B2B tech companies navigating their most critical inflection points—from seed stage to Series C, product launches to market repositioning, and everything in between. Her integrated team of senior communications experts has guided companies through transformational moments including Hyliion's SPAC/IPO, Q2 Holdings' IPO and subsequent M&A growth strategy, and CSI's take-private transaction and ongoing acquisition communications. Red Fan's work has earned industry recognition including the Bulldog Award for Best B2B Agency in the country.

Before launching Red Fan, Kathleen led strategic communications for JPMorgan Chase’s LabMorgan, the bank's technology investment and incubator arm, where she directed PR strategy for a $500MM+ venture portfolio. She worked directly with founders and bankers to support exits that included 10+ IPOs (RiskMetrics, Dealertrack, MarketAxess, IntraLinks, Financial Engines, FxAll) and major acquisitions (PayPal to eBay, Archipelago to NYSE, Capital IQ to S&P). This rare vantage point—seeing which communication strategies actually moved the needle when it mattered most—shapes how she advises clients today.

Kathleen then moved to Hong Kong to serve as JPMorgan Chase's Asia Pacific communications leader, where she orchestrated communications for a complex four-way merger while building and leading a regional team across 18 countries. Her work helped reposition the firm from #5 to #1 as the US investment bank of choice in the region—all while advising the Chairman and Management Committee and managing crisis communications during 9/11 and SARS.

She began her career as a technology journalist, giving her an early understanding of what makes a story resonate—and what makes reporters hit delete. At IBM Research, she brought groundbreaking innovations in computing and nanotechnology to global audiences. As Partner at Peppercom, she scaled the technology practice from $400K to $4.5M annually, earning PRSA's Big Apple Award for excellence in tech communications.

Kathleen is a contributor to Fast Company's Executive Board and the Forbes Agency Council, and serves on the board of the BBB's Foundation for Better Business. She knows what separates startups that break through from those that fade away—and it starts with getting the story right.

Conversation

The principal assertion of this discourse centers on the notion that the distinction between securing a Series A funding round and being overlooked may not reside in the product itself, but rather in the narrative that surrounds it. Kathleen Lucente, our esteemed guest, elucidates her extensive experience with startups, having traversed numerous facets of the industry—from her tenure as a tech journalist to her pivotal role in communications at JPMorgan Chase, and now as the founder of her strategic communications firm, Redfan. She articulates a critical observation: many startups are misguidedly prioritizing public relations over the construction of a compelling brand narrative, thereby undermining their fundraising efforts. Lucente advocates for a paradigm shift whereby founders must focus on identifying their "super consumers" and refining their messaging before seeking external investment. This episode serves as a clarion call for entrepreneurs to appreciate the integral role of strategic communications in their success trajectory.

Kathleen Lucente's conversation in this episode presents a profound examination of the role of narrative in the startup landscape. With a wealth of experience in strategic communications, Lucent argues that the distinction between success and failure in securing funding often lies in the founder's ability to tell a compelling story. She emphasizes that too many startups focus on their product offerings rather than the narrative that encapsulates their mission, vision, and unique value proposition. This misalignment can lead to missed opportunities with potential investors who are seeking a deeper connection with the brands they support. Lucent's perspective prompts entrepreneurs to reconsider their approach to communications and to prioritize narrative development as a foundational element of their fundraising strategy.

Moreover, Lucente shares her insights on the evolving dynamics of startup communications, particularly in the context of an increasingly competitive market. She notes that while the fundamentals of compelling storytelling remain constant, the mechanisms by which these stories are disseminated have changed significantly. Founders are urged to adopt a more strategic approach to their communications, including the identification of super consumers—those customers who are not only loyal but also serve as advocates for the brand. This nuanced understanding of target demographics allows startups to tailor their messaging more effectively, thereby enhancing their chances of attracting the right investors.

In conclusion, Lucente’s expertise underscores the critical importance of strategic communications in the entrepreneurial journey. By fostering a strong narrative and engaging in thoughtful brand positioning, startups can navigate the complexities of fundraising more effectively. This episode serves as an invaluable resource for founders looking to refine their approach to communications, ensuring that their stories resonate deeply with both investors and customers alike. Through her insights, Lucent provides a clear roadmap for entrepreneurs aiming to thrive in a challenging business environment.

Takeaways

1. Kathleen Lucente emphasizes that most startups are mistakenly prioritizing press coverage over crafting a compelling narrative to attract investors.
2. She advocates for identifying super consumers rather than sticking to a broad ideal customer profile to ensure effective marketing strategies.
3. Engaging strategic communications early in the startup process is crucial for establishing a strong brand identity and narrative.
4. Lucente advises founders to invest time in developing their brand narrative before seeking funding to avoid the pitfalls of misaligned investor relationships.
5. The importance of having a good internal marketing liaison cannot be overstated; they serve as a bridge between the startup and external strategic expertise.
6. In the competitive startup landscape, founders must recognize the value of tailored communications strategies that align with their unique market positions.

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Foreign.

Please meet today's guest, Kathleen Lucente.

Red is my power color. I don't. I. I feel like it's powerful. It's, you know, it's just, it says what I need it to say.

What if the difference between landing your Series A and getting passed over isn't your product, it's your story? Today's guest knows this better than anyone. Kathleen Lucent has seen startups from every angle.

As a tech journalist who could spot the unprepared founders from a mile away, as the head of communications for JPMorgan Chase across 18 countries in Asia Pacific, and now as the founder of her own strategic communications firm, Redfan. She's the person who managed communications for JP Morgan during 9 11.

She's repositioned investment banks and helped IBM Research tell stories that moved stock prices. And she's got a grit story involving cowboy boots, a stubborn Motorola executive, and a 25 year old's courage that you won't want to miss.

But here's what matters for you. Kathleen believes most startups are approaching fundraising backwards. They're chasing press when they should be building narrative.

They're defining ideal customer profiles when they should be finding super consumers. And they're waiting too long to get strategic about communications.

So if you're a founder who thinks marketing and PR are just window dressing, prepare to have your mind changed. Let's dive in. Welcome, Kathleen, to the show. Thank you so much for being here.

Great to be here, Jothy. Thanks for inviting me.

Absolutely. Well, I always start this way. I like to know where you're originally from and where you live now.

Oh, okay. Here we go. I grew up on the North Shore of Long island in New York, about halfway out. Raised by a mom from Boston and a dad from New York.

Very distinct accents in that household. And now I currently live in Austin, Texas.

Did your mom and dad root for different teams?

Yes, they did.

Oh, my God. That must have been fireworks.

Oh, it was energetic. It's interesting because they both met up in Boston, so I think they truly did have an allegiance for the Red Sox. But my dad couldn't let go of.

I grew up going to actually Shea Stadium, the old Shea Stadium. And we had box seats right off first base. And I would keep. I learned how to keep score early on.

There are no boys in my family, so my dad really kind of. I'm the oldest, so he, he was like, you're gonna learn how to keep score.

Well, that's, that's fun.

We went down and we took the ferry across and we Went on a wine tasting weekend and I had no idea that out there in that cold climate they could make some awfully good wine.

You are 100% correct. In fact, when I was growing up those were all like potato fields and you still can get incredible squash and all sorts of things.

But the wine industry out there started when I was probably in elementary school, if not sooner. And it has evolved beautifully.

So I, I'm always impressed and I always make a, make a shot back out there to kind of see I've got a couple of vineyards I like in particular.

So for a while you were a tech journalist and you were talking to and about startups and some of that work you were doing. And then you kind of, I don't know if we would call it switching sides, but then you started helping startups, you know, directly yourself.

And so, you know, what's the, and, and the firm you have now is, is all about communications and how, how to communicate and, and whatnot.

So what do you think the difference is between how startups today communicate or should and back during the, you know, the dot com era, which to me seems like just yesterday, but what wasn't?

Well, I think people, you know, I think people still are scrappy, which I appreciate that energy. I think you need to be scrappy and effective in using your budget when you're a startup.

What I would say is when I was a journalist, I had usually pr people were bringing people in to see me. And what I found was some people were prepared and some people weren't.

They would often just get dropped off with a press release and not prepped and didn't think about their messaging.

And what I witnessed was a real difference between how people were getting prepared and how the CEO knew how to use the resources that they were paying for and vice versa. So I think today what I'm seeing is startups are getting more VC money.

They're getting people who are operators early on working with them, they're being a little bit more smarter, smarter about, you know, still being frugal about their money, but starting wisely with understanding the competition's fierce and it's, you can quickly become a commodity business if you don't differentiate yourself.

So I really appreciate seeing CEOs of startups and entrepreneurs creating what I call like a virtual group of people that are their advisors, that are not necessarily getting paid off the bat, that are kind of early stage champions of the company.

And so picking the finance person, picking somebody who understands operations, how to scale your sales team, and then where does marketing and communications fit in the mix and why marketing and communications is going to help drive the ability to get that round of funding that they're hoping for, not just window dressing.

And I think it's really important that they understand that at the early stage it is actually much smarter to use external resources, especially in the marketing area, just because you don't really need and you can't afford a full time marketing person. Except maybe in the case where you are worried about things that need to stay within the company.

You know, certain concepts and things that, you know, a marketing person might be developing over time. Just like you don't want to outsource too much of your engineering because you've got to keep that within the, you know, the company.

But the same thing is true of marketing, but you don't need a bunch of marketing people in the early days until you've proven product market fit.

Yeah, I've actually been talking a lot about this. We had Startup Week here in Austin, Texas and I did a overview of, you know, when who do you hire first and who do you hire as external partners?

And so if you are, you know, strong PR partners, do want to have a liaison internally.

So even if you have sort of a manager of marketing or a marketing coordinator who's helping go back and forth between the C suite, it helps you get more done and the efficiencies more effective.

So I do recommend that, I always recommend that that person be a really strong writer because they're probably helping to manage your social media and they're also probably helping with blogs and things of that nature. So they really need to be a good writer, but also extremely organized.

And so those are kind of skill sets that I like to see and then export the rest. Right.

If you can get a really strong sort of fractional cmo, fractional communications person who can help you get your brand positioning, then you're using your funds a lot more effectively. You're getting strategy from someone you can't afford to have on board full time, which that just makes sense.

Yes.

So I get a good score from, I get a good grade from you because I always hire somebody who's roughly a director of marketing, who's a good writer, that, that person really, if they're going to be focusing on communications and helping the CEO, even with their slide decks for pitch, you know, for, for fundraising, they're a marketing communications person, an outbound marketing person. And so, but of course to, to get your minimum viable product and your product market fit done, you need an inbound marketing person.

And, and, and so what, what's always the challenge is, is that I end up having that person be someone in engineering. Like, sometimes it's actually the VP of engineering who, who takes on the role of product management until marketing is growing.

And then at that point you're kind of, you know, moving that function back over its challenge. I think that's really important.

I mean, you know, before I, before I started, you know, doing what I'm doing, I would say, you know, there's a couple of things really helping companies start to understand who their super consumers are. Right. I'm always amazed at, like, how often startups will come in and say, well, I'll say, who are you? Who are you marketing to? Everybody?

Or it's just too broad. Right.

And what I've found is once you've hit at least a million dollars in revenue, you really then can look back and see who your super consumers are. Right.

Who are the repeat customers, the ones that are buying more than one product from you, the ones that are raving about you, and they start to become like, okay, these are the people that we want to replicate, we want to do more of that.

And then your marketing and your PR team, you know, can work with the engineering and sales team and say, okay, let's really figure out how to reach those individuals through multiple channels. And so a lot of, a lot of companies unfortunately stick with their icp, their ideal customer profile, and that's too broad.

Often, I mean, especially for startups, you know, it's very hard to kind of decide who do you want to market to and how are you going to differentiate yourself? Like more, more time needs to be spent there than most startups actually spend.

Absolutely. I think. And one of the reasons that's so hard for a lot of tech startups is because tech startups tend to be founded by tech people.

And the tech people have a really hard time with the concept of cold calling people that they've found, maybe even even through LinkedIn, which is a fine way to find them, but then you gotta cold call them and try to get that conversation going. And I tell people, look, I want you to talk to a minimum of 15 of those kind of people and aim for 40. And that just blows their minds. That's hard.

That is hard.

I think that, you know, I've worked with, in the, in the tech space since my 20s and so first with, you know, as a journalist, and then I, you know, I was at a PR firm in Boston and then I was in New York and You know, it goes on and on, but I was always working with engineers that were then product managers.

And it's amazing, you know, just trying to help them understand, you know, you're talking about all the gizmos inside, but you really need to get the narrative right and understand who you are speaking to and why they should care. Because somebody who wants to go deeper, we know you'll know how to go deeper into that conversation.

But first you got to get them up in this level where they even want to be interested in the conversation to begin with. And that is hard.

Actually, there's a course at University of Texas Austin here, and it's actually for engineers, helping them learn how to speak that way.

If you do the LinkedIn thing and you, you know, you, you can really target, you know, you know, pretty accurately the kinds of industries and the kinds of people, but in order to catch their attention, you've got a real challenge. You've got a very small. I forget what it is, but it's like 300 characters that they allow you in that message.

You know, the old, the old adage is, if I'd had more time, I could have written a shorter book.

You've got Hemingway.

Yeah. And you've got to catch them with that.

You can tell who has not done their homework right as well. They're just blasting and I call it spraying and praying, which is never good in any business. It's not a good way to go.

So tell me about this time that you spent at Lab Morgan.

Sure.

How did you get there?

Well, I was at a high tech PR firm in New York City and I was, it was during the dot com boom. I was bringing companies public and I was, you know, bring, you know, doing major rounds of funding.

I was doing M and A work and I was doing work in many different verticals, but predominantly all B2B. And I got a call from a number of people saying, you need to go over and talk to the executives at Chase. And I said, well, why?

I had just become partner and I said, maybe I can go over and talk to them and hopefully help them find another. You know, I can always happy to help people find the right person.

And it turned out that once I got over there, it turned out that it was Chase had a incubator called Chase.com and they were eventually going to be merging with JP Morgan, which had Lab Morgan. And they were trying to get me on board so I would be able to head up all tech communications for the firm. And so Lab Morgan was really.

They had Worked with numerous recruiters and were not coming up with the right person. They needed someone who understood tech.

And as you know, from my early days being a tech journalist, one of the reasons why I was hired as a PR person early on at Andy Cunningham's organization representing Motorola, 68,000 microprocessors, which is, you know, the super nerdiest job of all time, but which I loved. It was because I could write about very challenging technologies and make them attractive to your grandmother as well as an engineer and so.

Or the New York Times. You know, I think I'm the first person who got Moore's Law mentioned years ago in the New York Times.

No journalist could get their head around it and I was able to help them.

So it's the kind of thing that was really, really interesting to me that I went over there and when I suddenly realized what the job opportunity was, it just seemed like a perfect fit.

Because Lab Morgan was a combination of the venture capital arm of the firm along with investing and spinning off technologies from that we'd created within the firm as well as technologies outside. So say it was a derivatives platform that we created.

We might spin it off it as a separate company but put, put somebody as a CEO and then I would be supporting and helping them figure out what kind of communication strategy they needed, if they needed a PR firm, if they needed to hire someone internally. So I was managing a pretty large portfolio there and it was fantastic.

Lab Morgan, is that, is that how you ended up over in Asia as well?

Well, that was an interesting spin. So what happened was 911 happened, right? So I was living in New York City and fairly newly married.

I think it was just my one year wedding anniversary and but 911 happened and I managed the communications for 911 with my boss at JP Morgan Chase. And we had to handle lots of different things.

But just before it, my boss Fred Hill, who, who reported to Bill Harrison at the time, he said, look, there's an issue in Asia. Can you, you know, we've got a guy from J.P. morgan and a woman from Chase. We never decided who will be the head of communications.

And we've got 18 countries all wondering and a new chairman there from Goldman Sachs that needs a communications strategy. Strong. Will you go out and sort of see what's going on and what we need to do? So I went out right after 9 11.

About three weeks after left my husband behind in New York City and went out there and about two months into it I got a call saying, hey, would you consider staying there? We'd like to have you be the, you know, the Senior VP of corporate communications for all of Asia Pacific. And so that was fantastic. And so called.

My husband said, hey, you want to do this? I almost forgot I was married, by the way. I had to call him be like, by the way, remember you said this might happen. It's actually happening.

He said, I told you. And keep in mind, uh, my husband is the. Went to. He has a PhD from MIT.

So you know, he had been a drop in CTO at a company that he was trying to fix in New York City and he had done a great job. So he helped position somebody else into the role and, and, and came on over with me.

Oh, good. So that, and then he was there every day. So you remembered that you had a husband?

I remembered I was married. I, I was like, goodness gracious. Well, it was funny because we originally our original plan was we were going to, I was gonna only be.

We wind up being there five and a half years and he wound up being the head of China Light and Power Alternative Energy. And I obviously took on the role that I had and actually our daughter, who's now 21, I gave birth to her there on the peak there. So.

But it was a really important job because.

And I would say what was super exciting about it was not only was I doing a four way merger out there, so we had multiple banks that we had merged out there. We had plummeted to number five as an investment bank because our equity program was not built out. Chairman said to me, I want to build this out.

Can you get me to number one? Number two, I said, if you do what you say you're going to do, I will make that happen.

And so I assessed the team, made some hires, made some fires, and built out the team that was really kind of able to take us there after that.

You've been up here in the clouds with all the giant titans of huge corporations and then you decided to create your own startup.

Absolutely, absolutely. Because I had been told I'd worked in boutique PR firms and big PR firms.

I ran PR for IBM Research Worldwide and you know, was working with engineers and Nobel Prize winners every day telling their stories and, you know, dusting off these incredible stories that were, had not been told to kind of raise the value of IBM stock. Right. So it was easy for me to kind of look at all the things that we did at J.P. morgan.

You know, I took things that were commoditized, like a merger and acquisition announcement or these types of things and really started looking at how do you add value? How do you really differentiate this business?

And so if I could take that brand positioning work I had done and apply it to startups, they could have a leg up long before, you know, having to make the mistakes that many companies make. And so I started Red Fan specifically focused on B2B companies. B2B companies in the tech industry that I felt deserved.

Investment banking, mindset communications, as in, I know you want to grow, I know you want the momentum. You need this level of thinking that it's not just window dressing. We are building something together.

Hi there. I hope you're enjoying the show. In addition to the podcast, you might.

Also be interested in the online program I have created for startup founders called. Who says you can't startup in it, I've tried to capture everything I've learned.

In the course of founding and running nine startups over 37 years with no constraints like there were with my book Tech Startup Toolkit. The program has four courses, each one about 15 video lessons plus over 30 high value downloadable resources. Each course individually is only $375.

The QR code will take you where you can learn more.

Now back to the podcast. Well, that is so true in the building of your own startup and then we'll talk some more about, you know, what you've been able to do with it.

But in the building of it, most of us that are building a startup make a few mistakes. Did, did anything go sideways for you on, on Red Fan?

Well, of course, you know, it's the most humbling role ever when you're starting your own business.

Everything from, you know, you might not have an operations person and you get bamboozled by somebody with a, a phone system that's just a, you know, garbage, right? You rip that out for $5,000 and throw, you know, start all over again.

Or, you know, I think early on having clients that, you know, being really more selective, right? Having clients that you say yes to because you're just trying to get things going and maybe they really aren't the right fit.

And you realize pretty quickly not the right fit. And so I think those are the types of lessons early on that I, I took to heart.

You know, I'm building something, I want to make sure that we're not taking on the wrong clients. I want to make sure it's always a win win for both.

And then also hiring the right people, really, really thinking about, okay, I need this person now, but how do I make sure I hire who I need six months to a Year from now, is this. Is this person going to be able to grow with me? And I think those decisions were really, really important early on.

Why did you name it Red Fan?

Okay. Yeah, that was interesting. So I come from a family of lawyers and judges in New York City.

So I kept thinking in my mind, I am not naming this after my name. And then like a partner and a this and a that. I didn't want that model. I started thinking about red fan.

Probably when I was flying back from Hong Kong.

I kind of had that idea in my head and I looked at it from when you look at a fan, as in like an Asian fan that you would, you know, you know, kind of cool yourself with. They have fins. You know, if I'm looking at my hand, you've got great people, great products, great partners, great services, great community.

And when you bring all those fins together at the base, they. They structurally create, you know, the fan, and without that, it falls apart.

And so really, when you're doing the work I do, it's not about one person. It's around all those things. And so red fan, you know, it's. It's a structural example of that's what it takes to do the right thing for your client.

Yeah, but why red and not blue. Or green or yellow?

Red is my power color. I don't. I. I feel like it's powerful. The. It's, you know, it's just. It says what I need it to say, and it's not. It's a very distinct color. Red.

If you look at our website, it's kind of like an orangey red. It's the kind of red you see if you're in Hong Kong and you're traveling around, you see, like, wood painted. It's that distinct color, red.

And I just. It gives me a lot of warmth. That was also my sayonara to the corporate world. Right? So I was like, I'm leaving. I'm going to build my own thing.

And really, Asia was my last stop on that corporate, you know, train.

And did you set it up from the beginning in Austin?

I did, I did. But I would say I set it up in Austin and I. But my initial clients were all coming from New York and Boston because of my network there.

And I found myself traveling extensively and my kids were little. And I remember thinking, I need to really put some roots down here in Austin. And so I did.

And now we have clients in Israel, we have clients in California. We've got clients all over. But it. But it's nice that I have.

We're very well known in our market and we also do a lot of really cool nonprofit work here too.

Um, and we sponsor, you know, like, things like the A list, which is looking at startups and venture capital that are doing really interesting things in our community and well beyond our community. But are have been seeded here. Boston is such a cool place.

I loved going to grad school there and then working there and building such an incredible network. And I found that, you know, women would really introduce each other to each other quite a bit if they'd find each other.

I was kind of a odd commodity in the sense that there weren't that many women doing tech PR when I was doing it. And in fact I was recruited to New York City by Ketchum. And they still all had dumb terminals, you know, on their desks.

I remember early on and they were like, we hired this tech PR woman. And I remember they had this huge Sony screen and people would walk by like I was a sci fi, you know, creature or something.

Like, you know, the room was like glowing up and stuff like that. But yeah, making those connections early on is so important and I've continued to maintain them.

When a woman is in a big company, a public company, and is still. The only woman in the room.

I will tell you, that was my life since my 20s because I, what happened was I was, you know, got my master's degree at Boston College, right. And I went up over at Connors, which then was bought by Reed Elsevier, and I was surrounded by engineers.

I was the only woman really writing on the staff. And then I kept going from there. And so every industry I've been in, often I was often the only woman in that room.

But I really learned how to hold myself and be a good role model for other women and men really, quite frankly. And I think it's, yeah, it's an interesting thing of confidence that you have to, you kind of have to just pull it together.

Investment banking, you know, that's a big one, right? There's, you know, also quite male dominated. While there are women.

I found myself, you know, really needing to go in and explain like, nope, if you want to do this deal, you need to add some value. You know, if you care about the client reputation, let's add some. Something different that Goldman Sachs won't have.

So let's do an analysis of the reputation of your client domestically and internationally. And the bankers were blown away, like no one else was doing that.

Being able to always be, I think curiosity is like the, is the is the thing, you know, it just drives you. Have you ever watched the show the West Wing?

Of course. I love it.

C.J. you know, Craig, who's very tall, she's called the Flamingo. She's very insulted at first about that.

Um, I just, you know, I just rewatched the entire thing with my husband recently, and it was just such a. So refreshing and thinking about the media relations part and all the things that are going on behind the scenes. So interesting.

It's especially refreshing to watch that, given what's going on in the real world, I would say.

So I almost wanted to be like, please make this true. Make this real.

So you've been an advisor and, and, and a writer and, and you've worked in the, in the huge companies.

Where did you glean all of the experience that you need, that you need to have to be able to give advice to startup founders about, you know, what they should be doing at this stage and then what should they be getting ready for and, and, and when should they be, you know, raising money and all those kinds of things?

I would say, certainly at Lab Morgan watching, I mean, while it's a different time now, I would say Lab Morgan watching startups, you know, bringing them public and also helping companies through difficult times and helping CEOs.

And today I would say that the most important thing, you know, is that I'm applying both the big stuff that I've learned at big, big companies as well as small.

Because what's happening is you're taking companies a startup and you're saying, okay, what is your desired future state and how are we going to get there? And that's the level of conversation I expect to have with a client. And then, you know, it's not, hey, can you get me some press?

Usually people show up at a PR agency saying, we need press. And I say, okay, why do you need press?

So we're sitting down and helping them understand they usually are very upfront about the financials they're trying to reach or the funding rounds they're trying to reach. And so one of the things we're doing, and we're doing this right now with a company we're repositioning, they're in the agritech space.

They had been going and they've got some customers and they've done fairly well, but they are not they're not punching through and they've got a very unique story.

And so getting that brand narrative right, because they're not going to get the funding, then if we don't get that right, and then we'll actually help them build out their investor deck as well through that process. But you have to start with why, what's not working and be vulnerable.

So we're expecting a startup founder and their team to be willing to be vulnerable in order to punch through the where they're not the ceiling that they're not cutting through to. And that's really, really important.

And I would say back in the dot com phase and even with that Lab Morgan, we're at a different level of sophistication today in terms of where communication and venture capital or are coming together and partnering on these things versus everyone in silos. The problem when people are in silos is that you're spending a lot of time running around talking to different people.

And as a founder, you're not sure who to listen to. And so when you can get partners that come together, it really makes a big difference.

Okay, so if you could give founders who have not yet raised money one single key piece of advice, what would it be, you know, about communications that they should get right before they take money?

I believe that unless you want to lose a lot from investors, you need to take, you know, invest yourself for a while and get your brand narrative right, get some customers, get your beta going and really have data that you can point to competitive analysis. You don't want to be going in and talking to investors when you're so early stage and they could almost eat you up, eat you alive. Right?

You want to make sure you've got this really, really strong because that also then tells you which investors you should even be approaching.

You know, which portfolio are you going to fit in the best, who's going to understand you the most, which investors can do more for you, where it's going to be a partnership versus people barking orders at you, where you've so get. You've got to set the table. You've got to really set the table as a startup.

And that means I would say having a very strong communications strategist that's working with you is essential. And making sure all of the communication, your website, everything you have about you starts to really hang together, including your LinkedIn.

And I would make sure I have a checkbox, I have a readiness box, if you will, of a list of things that I usually ask them to make sure everything is Coming together and then we start looking at, okay, investors. Let's talk about which investors are going to be the right investors and which ones do you want to approach first? Hey, I'm a startup, right?

I've been around 17 years, but I put my own money where my mouth was early on to establish my brand. I learned early on these are some mistakes. I'm not going to do them.

Some customers that, you know, where I took them on maybe made money, but I realized that's not where I want to be. And then I made sure that all of my communication, the tip of the spear, is attracting the clients that I really, really want.

The, the previous discussion would the founders that were. We were talking about just a second ago, you were referring to their. They're getting ready for their Series A funding though, right?

Or, or even seed funding.

But Series A, even seed funding, I think if you're trying to get things together, there's some basic strategy that should be in place around how you're communicating, right? Because if you're going to go from seed to A or wherever you are in the journey, there's certain things you want to get right.

And getting your brand narrative and what your value proposition is right is super, super important. Before you go ask for seed money, because you might get seed money from the wrong person.

I remember a startup coming to see me and they had gotten seed money from somebody who, their expectations were completely off. They were expecting to get their return on that money really fast as well. And so there's a lot of conversation that needs to go on.

They're like, well, it's my friend's brother's cousin and he's got all this money. He wants to give it to me. Wrong guy to go to. He's going to be a pain in your butt for a long, long time.

It's nice to know that you're talking to people who actually, have actually been investors in the past and that they, they care to understand your narrative. They care to understand how you want to set things up.

You know, the reason I wanted to, you know, zero in on this is, is, is that the. I, I believe the criteria for raising your Series A is, is, is pretty clear.

You've got to have proven product market fit and you've got to have, right, at least three paying customers. If, if we're talking about the B2B kind of models, right?

But that getting the, but that getting the series seed is much more about who you are, what your vision is. Do you understand the market and the problem? But it's not about having paying customers yet, right?

Absolutely. You can't, you can't. The expectation is not that. But you do have to have your vision.

You have to have what you're, you know, why you think you're, what you think is this, this, what is the void in the market that you're actually filling and those types of things. And that's brand positioning. That is part of brand positioning.

And you know, if you just have blinders on and you haven't done your competitive analysis to see who else is serving this market, even if it's something that's kind of tertiary, but it's very close to what you're doing, you need to make sure that you're aware of that in your competitive analysis.

So you aren't building something that doesn't have the staying power or when the market's down and your B2B target customer is saying, well, where do I want to spend my money? Which tool or service is going to give me, you know, give me the fastest outcomes I'm looking for.

And you know, you're trying to understand like who your target customer even is.

Absolutely. Okay, my last question is gonna, gonna be a little bit different. I wanna know where. So where does your grit come from? What is your grit story?

Wow. I think my, you know, I'm the oldest in a family of two. I came from, like I said, families of lawyers and judges.

I think ethics has always been a really big thing and I grew up with.

And so I've always been kind of one of these people that's looking very deeply at, you know, being able to read the room and read the tea leaves, if you will, and like kind of be able to understand.

And what I found early on in my life is that my gut instincts tell me a lot about what's going on, what's not being said, which is equally as important. And so the grit for me is probably because I grew up in this like very.

In business wise, in this very male dominated industry and I had to kind of stand up for myself.

And early on, even as a high tech journalist, you know, I was surrounded by engineers that were from Grumman and I was reviewing their copy and like going in and they were fairly gruff, you know, these fellows when I was young and they appreciated.

In your 20s, right?

Yeah, they appreciated me coming in.

That's frightening.

Oh yeah. And these are men that, you know, were sitting around, you know.

Yeah, they'd been engineers and they're writing, you know, I would say, hey, I'm reading through This, I think, you know, if I'm looking at this, I think a diagram would fit in really beautifully here.

Since you're trying to educate other engineers and made some jumps and assumptions here, and being able to have that conversation with men in their 40s, 50s, you know, that were proven in their industry, I found that, first of all, I had a really good way about me and I could do that. And they were. I didn't hurt their ego, and I actually made their pieces a lot stronger. And we wound up having a great relationship.

So I think that might be also my relationship with my dad and my mom. I'm very lucky. I just grew up in a way where we could debate and have conversations and, you know, question things and still show a lot of respect.

And so I'm lucky that I had that foundation early on. So Today, at age 58, I'm still cracking the whip, but I still do it in a very effective way.

And I have a nurturing side of me as well, that it's really looking out for those entrepreneurs so they can truly be successful. And so I can have brutally frank conversations that are going to advance them. And I think that's where I guess my grit comes from.

Here's a funny little story. I remember one day I had to fly down here for Motorola, and there was an executive who.

He probably was in his 30s, but he looked a lot older at the time because he just seemed overworked. And he was in charge of a major microprocessor announcement.

And the Microprocessor Forum had put out an article that just kind of dinged him against Intel. And he was in a really bad mood. And I was probably about 25, and I flew down here and I had interviews set up with the Wall Street Journal. I had cnn.

I had all. It was major breakthrough. And I got to his office and he said, I'm really mad about that guy. You know, this guy that did this.

I said, you can, you know, you can be mad, but he's going to see. He's going to see his folly. Cause we're going to keep pushing here. And he said, I think I want to cancel all the press interviews.

And so I. I got up and I took on his whiteboard.

I said, you see all the people outside here who've been sweating it and building up this building, this product here that have been dying to announce this. It's taken this long. I said, okay. Wrote down Wall Street Journal.

I wrote down, you know, edn, all the different publications, cnn, all these interviews that were supposed to be lined up. I said, you're telling me you want to steal these, this amazing opportunity to get great press on your incredible achievement?

And he said, he looked at the whiteboard. He goes, okay, we'll do it. I remember thinking, oh, thank God. But I was a little scared. He had cowboy boots on.

He had his feet up on the desk with his suit. And I remember thinking, I'm going to change his mind. I'm changing his mind. He can't do that to his whole team just because he's in a bad mood.

And by the way, we also got that other editor to turn around his story and write a really glowing one about two weeks later because he realized he was being a bit cheeky. So that's kind of just. That's just the kind of person I am.

Very good.

I think that that's a good grit story and you've channeled it in a really good way to, to deal with the, you know, the guys in cowboy boots and the, And, and, and at the same time, the, the, you know, the, the scared. The imposter syndrome, suffering startup founder, you know.

Percent yeah, it's. Every one of them is nervous about something.

And when you can build that rapport where vulnerability can happen, so much more can happen as a partner, when you can actually open up. And so finding the right partners, you know, in all different aspects for entrepreneurs where you can truly open up, it's.

It's very valuable, you know, to be able to be vulnerable with the right people so that they can help you advance.

Well, this has been great, Kathleen. I want to thank you for this great conversation and chance to get to know you and, and I hope we can carry that forward.

Same here. Jothy. Also, I cannot wait to read your book.

Oh, well, good. It's going to be on its way shortly to you.

Good.

Before we wrap up, let's pull out three critical tools from Kathleen's toolkit that you can use right now. Tool number one, get your brand narrative right before you fundraise.

Not just a pitch deck, a complete story about what void you're filling in the market and why you're the ones to fill it.

Kathleen says if you don't invest in getting this right yourself first, you risk taking money from the wrong investors who will become a pain in your butt for years to come. Tool number two, look beyond your ICP to find your super consumers.

Once you hit about a million in revenue, stop marketing to everybody and start analyzing who's actually buying repeatedly, who's raving about you.

These super consumers are your blueprint for growth, not some broad ideal customer profile and tool number three Bring in strategic communications early, but do it smart. You don't need a full marketing team yet. Hire one great writer internally who can be your liaison.

Then bring in fractional strategic expertise externally. This gives you executive level thinking without executive level overhead. Now go find one person in your network who's been where you want to go.

Someone you can be truly vulnerable with about what's not working, because that's where your breakthrough lives. And that is our show with Kathleen. The show notes contain useful resources and links.

Please follow and rate us@podchaser.com designingsuccessful startups. Also, please share and like us on your social media channels. This is Jothy Rosenberg saying TTFN Tata for now.